Hello everyone!

I just had a thought: what other tropes from the community would make for a good Most Dangerous Game contest? I'm not totally sure, but here are some of my thoughts:

A Crossover contest. Just pure crossover, with some restrictions:

1.) Crossover must happen within first 1000-ish words.

2.) Story can be anywhere between 5k-25k words.

3.) Ponies must cross into universe you are crossing into at some point in the story, and characters from other universe must cross over into MLP universe at some point in the story as well.

4.) No alternate universe or fan-canon elements, on either side; crossover must "make sense" as you read it, whether you are familiar with that universe or not. NO ALTERNATE UNIVERSE SHENANIGANS

5.) No links to the universe you are crossing over to, and no extensive author's notes or notes in the long/short description that describe the universe being crossed with MLP. The story must tell all those details in a well-written and sensible manner. Bonus points for vague story art

That's one idea I had, because crossovers are one of those things that writers on the site, STEREOTYPICALLY, have a hard time effectively writing. Yes, there is a right way to write a crossover, but how often does that happen? Ehh, it's a thought.

Next idea: Write a clop fic that has one other genre besides clop. People love pony pron, but can pony pron be good writing as well? This might actually fit better with the theme of the contest, since it's the most dangerous game of all: trying to convince horny bronies that your clop story that's well-written and interesting is better than the ten other clop stories that are just half-baked efforts with nothing but pony sexy-times.

Since I don't write clop AND have never read it, I have no idea what the rules would be for it.

Another idea: A year-long contest that happens in the background with the other, smaller contests: write the longest story you can within a year's time, and bring it to completion at the end of that year. For example, if such a contest happened today (7/9/14), then the contest would end a year from now (7/9/15). Something MUST be written and published every month, and every month judges will look over new entries in the long-form stories and judge how each story is coming along.

It could be like an elimination race: twenty or fifty writers could start a new long-form story, and every month after that a certain amount of stories that don't hold the judge's interests would be eliminated from the judging. There would be small prizes depending on how many months after the first month you manage to stay in the running, ranging from the small kinda stuff this contest had ranging up to more interesting things, like maybe the grand prize being one of the judges pledging to edit and proofread the grand prize winner's story of their choice.

A fic that is "Incomplete" is a fic that many people will simply not read, because they don't want to read an unfinished story. This contest would challenge that notion, and would also get writers who are in the habit of leaving their long-form stories hanging to actually finish the gosh-darned things. Plus, it challenges long-form writers to get creative: sure, you can publish thirty chapters in one month, but will those chapters hold your readers' interests, or will they simply push readers away because they may be poor quality?

I'm kinda biased towards this idea because I have a story that is an incomplete, long-form story, and it's taken quite a while to write; going on two years now. I'd like to start a new long-form fic, but it seems like incomplete fics tend to get a bad rap compared to one-shots and complete stories, unless the incomplete story is super-unique and very well-polished. It'd be nice to get interest in long-form fics, and get writers and readers more comfortable and interested in writing those kind of fics... and EVENTUALLY completing them <---(the face my grumpy self makes when I realize how far off I am at finishing MY OWN STORY)

Something that I think would have to be implemented is flexibility in determining who is a judge and who isn't. Obviously, someone who is currently competing cannot be a judge, but real life is complicated and difficult. If something like this were to ever happen, it would need to be set up such that a judge can forgo judging for a month or two to take care of personal matters or just real-life stuff, and for another person to volunteer to cover their judging slot, if possible.

Then again, would a year be TOO long? Would four or six months work better, and the judges check up on stories every week or two? I threw out a year, because that offers the greatest flexibility from the author's standpoint, but it may be more helpful to shorten the time-frame a little....

It's a thought, and it's the one that I'm the most excited for.

Anyway, those are some of my thoughts. Make of them whatever you will.

Sincerely,

Mr. Album

EDIT: I just had a horrible thought.... what if... *shudder* troll-fics could be written well?!?!?!?!

That... would be very dangerous.

EDIT: I just had a horrible thought.... what if... *shudder* troll-fics could be written well?!?!?!?!

'_' <-- click me

3430171 How about the stuff that people downvote without even reading. I mean stories that deal with themes of rape, torture, incest and foalcon.

3473249 In concept, it fits the theme of the original contest. In practice, it supports and amplifies that aspect of the fandom. If you really want that part of the fandom to become more visible, and if Obselescence and the judges really want the same, then I guess there would be no reason for it to happen.

Then again, what would happen if those aspects of the fandom got more visibility? The more visible something is, the more people look at it. The more they look at it, the more likely they'll have an opinion on it. The more the subject matter has a social stigma (like the stuff you listed), the more likely that opinion will be extreme.

And if those social stigmas get attached to the fandom in a more visible manner via a writing contest, what would that do for the image of the fandom?

In short, I think those subjects may be too dangerous.

3473249
Could we please not have a contest for writing rape/torture/incest/foalcon?

Could we please just continue not touching those with thirty-nine-and-a-half foot poles?

3473260 3473731 This is THE MOST dangerous group, guys. There is nothing more dangerous than this group; ergo, the themes that this group tackles should also be the most dangerous.

And why would we want to sweep those subject under the rug? Why should we support petty prejudices?

This is a site for fictional stories. The whole point of fictional stories is the exploration of the unknown.

I disagree with both of you.

3473905

And why would we want to sweep those subject under the rug? Why should we support petty prejudices?

Because they deal exclusively with morally reprehensible and inexcusable acts that even seasoned authors would find immensely difficult to portray with accuracy and tact. Because those "petty prejudices" represent an intrinsic discomfort with gross transgressions of federal law, basic human rights, and/or long-established standards of decency. Because grouping rape, incest, torture, and pedophilia in the same category as bad OCs and second-person narration is at best shortsighted and naïve, and at worst borderline sociopathic. And because writing about such controversial topics in the name of simply "exploring the unknown" is exploitative and crass, especially since all of these topics are in fact "known" of quite well by most mature adults, hence the reason they're so commonly reviled.

Take your pick. I have more.

3473985

Because they deal exclusively with morally reprehensible and inexcusable acts

They are only reprehensible and inexcusable in RL. The same holds true for the ending of the world. By that logic we should shun Fallout: Equestria for dealing with reprehensible and inexcusable acts such as ending the world as we know it certainly is.

even seasoned authors would find immensely difficult to portray with accuracy and tact.

You can write about ponies going to space even if you aren't an astronaut.

Because those "petty prejudices" represent an intrinsic discomfort

Not true. Some societies were cherishing these acts. Strong discomfort does not mean it's an intrinsic one. You may feel strongly discomforted walking naked down the street, but it isn't an intrinsic discomfort.

with gross transgressions of federal law,

Not true. The law only applies to RL. In fiction, law has nothing to do with the listed subjects.

basic human rights,

And why is it okay to have characters dying? Is living not a basic human right? Every other fic should be shunned by that logic.

and/or long-established standards of decency.

If we only acted what tradicion states, than we would still hang from the trees like decent apes used to do and would never lower yourself to unnatural walking on the ground. Being tradicional doesn’t speed up progress. In fact, it hinders it.

Because grouping rape, incest, torture, and pedophilia in the same category as bad OCs and second-person narration is at best shortsighted and naïve, and at worst borderline sociopathic.

Those subjects are dangerous and this is the most dangerous group. I see no problem with stacking them together.

And because writing about such controversial topics in the name of simply "exploring the unknown" is exploitative and crass,

Like writing comedies and parodies. Maybe we should shun those two.

especially since all of these topics are in fact "known" of quite well by most mature adults, hence the reason they're so commonly reviled.

If they are indeed so known, then why did you say that even seasoned authors would find them immensely difficult to portray with accuracy. Either people are knowledgeable of them or they are ignorant of them; they can't be both.

Take your pick. I have more.

Bring it on.

3474045 Downvoted. Here's my explanation.

3474072 Thank you for 'elaborating'.

This is like showing someone a middle finger, then stepping to him and saying: "I showed you a middle finger."

Perhaps I deserve a middle finger, but saying that you showed me a middle finger won't make me understand that, elaborating your reasoning, on the other hoof, might.

3474080 You're welcome!

3474078 Do you find my writing to be rambling, incoherent and nowhere close to rational thought, or do you understand what I wrote and just don't agree with it?

I used short and simple sentences. I find it hard to believe that they would be incomprehensible.

Debating 101: If you are confused about something, ask. If you don't agree with something, say why. Simple.

3474109
Ask yourself this: would any self-respecting author actually write a comprehensive story detailing the themes you've brought up, one who isn't into doing so for the sake of writing erotica? Who do you think would want to write such stories? Do you honestly think the people who participated in this contest would?

Those themes end up slapped with a Mature rating anyways. There's a significant number of people who avoid that rating outright, not to mention clopfics take up most if not nearly all of said rating's encompassment. You're already heavily restricting an audience, all sense of morality aside. If you want to go create your own group and organize such an event yourself, go for it. But it's wrong to think everyone would be so open to even considering participating.

Also, what 3474078 said.

3430171
In the absence of any sensible ideas coming to mind, I propose we take the existing prompts and move them that one step further. Make writers earn their acclaim by using any of the following.

1. OC romance with a canon character is all very well. In the new contest, your OC has to romance all the canon characters. All of them. Simultaneously as well, for bonus points.
2. No mere Seventh Element. You're going to work your way through the whole damn Periodic Table of Harmony.
3. Written a story in second-person? Good. Now write it in future tense as well.

3474279

would any self-respecting author actually write a comprehensive story detailing the themes you've brought up,

Did you read 120 days of Blueblood? In 76,515 words it deals with all of the themes I mentioned. The author is well known on this site (1894 followers). Though, you are right about the erotica. It's not easy to write about sex without including erotica in it.

Who do you think would want to write such stories? Do you honestly think the people who participated in this contest would?

The point of this group is challenging the authors. What better challenge, than the theme they wouldn't normally write about.

it's wrong to think everyone would be so open to even considering participating.

That's why it's called the most dangerous group. The decision to participate is not supposed to be an easy one.

Those themes end up slapped with a Mature rating anyways.

You're already heavily restricting an audience

You have a point. I concede.

3474482 I'm not sure if 1 and 2 can theoretically be written well. The whole concept is too dubious. The third option could be fun, though.

3474606

In the absence of any sensible ideas

If the whole concept isn't dubious, then where's the fun?

3474109 You're not interested in debating. All you're doing is bringing up a battery of highly controversial (and repugnant) topics in the hope of getting someone to take you seriously and admire the "thought" you've given to the matter. FimFiction is the Pit of Voles 2.0, but that doesn't mean we all want to discuss those topics, especially with someone out for the attention.

Don't worry about what I said here, though -- I'm just text on a screen, not real life.

Dragor, like I said, in concept, it fits with the themes of the contest.

But a concept and carrying out that concept are two very different things. We writers live and operate in the real world, which has pre-set societal rules and expectations on human behavior. Thus, our fictional creations reflect on the real-world character of their creator, even when said creator is anonymous or using a pseudonym.

As a result, the behaviors that you talk about and recommend for story subjects have been judged by the societies and countries in which we live to be horrific, amoral and despicable, as actions that deserve highly severe punishments of the highest degree. Some governments may have different standards, but at least one of those acts will be severely punished if someone is caught doing them. If a writer writes a story on these themes and does not intrinsically vilify those acts through his/her creation, society at large will wonder why the author tacitly supports those behaviors by not outright condemning them in their creative works.

If there is a writing contest on works that include those actions, then it connects those who run the contest, judges, contributing authors and readers to stories that focus on those behaviors. In short, it could connect the entire fandom to those subjects. And since society reacts so strongly to those acts, they are guaranteed to react in a negative manner to any fandom that promotes works that have those acts as their focus.

In short, at its worst, it could turn the vast majority of humanity against the fandom, or at the extreme least cause a split within the fandom itself, which would create chaos and fracture our huge, somewhat-united community.

Could anything good come out of a contest like what you are suggesting? Well, it will have authors flex their creative range, but at the cost of their reputation. What an author publishes and contributes to reflects on what that author values as important enough to create, to bring forth into this world for society to look at and wonder about. It would be extremely uncomfortable for society to imagine just how rape, torture or foalcon would be important enough for society to look at and wonder about: it would be like someone trying to convince you to look at their poop when you really don't want to look at their poop and have no reason to look at their poop, at least from the perspective of society.

Can an author convince society that there is a good reason to look at these vile acts? Sure, if they are clever enough, but it is still a huge hurdle just to CONVINCE a general audience to even take a look at those stories. And on TOP of that, the story needs to be well-written and a good story regardless of its subject matter, which is a difficult thing for ANY writer of ANY subject matter.

I think the only way you could get away with accepting stories that contain those acts is to make the contest about Mature stories in general. This way, the entire contest and its organizers and judges do not take the fall for societal repercussions via highlighting those acts, as I have outlined above; the author of the stories would be responsible for that content, NOT the contest itself... or, at least, the contest would not deliberately solicit stories specifically about those acts. That may not be specific enough for you, but it would at least allow for the possibility of those stories on those subject matters to be submitted and judged.

It's the difference being one individual expressing their personal creative focus, and a group of people implicitly celebrating those individuals with those creative foci. The former is at least ignored and at best tolerated because individuals can express whatever they want, as long as they are legal adults and they are not explicitly breaking any laws. The latter, however, gives a common place to those individuals and turns them into a collective group. If a GROUP of individuals encourage stories with those kinds of behaviors and acts, then society will worry about those individuals using their collective ability to take these ideas and stories and grow them within society. Groups are far more powerful and effective than individuals, and have the potential to permanently change society, for good or ill. Society has its reasons for treating these acts as amoral and deserving of punishment, and would not want anything that could give those ideas power within society to flourish. Hence, why trying to encourage those kinds of stories would not be good for a fandom that prides itself on harmony with those around us, at least to the best of our ability.

In short, we don't want society to raise its collective might against Bronies because of a writing contest. I know it sounds silly, but the threat is real. The only reason the Civil Rights movement succeeded was because they were able to overcome society's prejudice and hatred at the time, because the movement was truly that large and thus that powerful. I honestly think the Brony community doesn't have that capacity, and implicitly asking its members to defend themselves and prove the validity of their fandom to society at large simply because of one writing contest seems absurd to me.

Then again, this is a worst-case scenario situation. But since your suggested contest COULD lead to something that extreme, is it worth risking the reputation of, at the EXTREME least, everyone involved with the contest? I honestly don't think so.

Having just a "Mature in General" contest may be a cop-out, but one thing that we need to keep in mind is that society does exist, and it does judge our creative expressions, sometimes poorly, sometimes effectively. So making sure that we do not openly support stuff that they are going to see as amoral or against the law helps ensure that society is on the community's side when we may need their acceptance.

And to be honest, stranger things have happened in human history. While this just may be me expressing my paranoia about society's potential punishment for supporting that kind of stuff, things might work out such that this issue may become a non-issue. I don't know the future. I am only making as educated and reasonable a guess as I can based upon my own limited human knowledge. Does that mean I am totally, completely and utterly wrong? No; it means that I COULD be wrong... or I could be right. In the end, time will tell which possibility is true or false.

Make of my thoughts whatever you will. For what it's worth, I would recommend the "Mature in General" contest idea, and NOT a contest specifically about rape, torture, foalcon, incest, etc.... If there are folks gauging possible ideas for a next contest, then I hope that sentence makes my stance clear, for whatever that may be worth.

Sincerely,

Mr. Album

3473249
The non-pornographic stories about these don't seem to really get hit that hard, which kind of defeats the purpose of the game. The point is, after all, to write ordinarily terrible ideas and make them good.

Writing an interesting story about incest which is not pornographic is potentially an interesting subject matter. Rape as a serious subject is actually overdone; there's gigantic piles of stories about RAPE IS BAD YO. Torture, likewise, isn't exactly something which has a dearth of writing on the subject. Heck, it has been the subject of major television series.

A non-pornographic story about pedophila can be and has been written (Lolita put the loli in lolicon after all, and from my understanding it is not pornography) but I dunno what you're really hoping for there.

I think incest is a potentially interesting story topic, in the sense of a romantic relationship between siblings, but I think two of the others (rape and torture) have been done well too often to actually qualify as dangerous while the last one (foalcon) is likely to produce a lot of what the judges aren't looking for. The goal of a contest prompt is to inspire diversity in the products, so that the judges don't have to read the exact same thing over and over again, and also to inspire goodness from badness - and I'm not sure that these prompts actually would do so.

Another issue with torture is that, like abortion, writing a story about torture being justified or unjustified is likely to lead to the same sort of nasty fights we get over abortion being okay or not okay. They are dangerous topics, alright, but might be difficult to find good judges for.

While I do actually like the idea of a contest which is dealing with controvertial subject matter (rather than something which is just typically poorly written), the problem really arises in actually judging such a thing. Also, it may not fit in the spirit of the contest.

3474279
FYI, Lolita is a well-known and well-regarded book about a pedophilic relationship.

Hard Candy is a very interesting movie about a suspected sexual predator and a 14 year old vigilante.

Both are squicky, but yes, some people HAVE produced good things about this subject matter.

It is possible to write a teen-rated story which involves rape or torture, but (obviously) they would have to occur off-screen (or in the case of torture, be silly torture or played for laughs, which, given the prohibition of parody, wouldn't really work for such a contest).

As for mature stuff - clopfics make up about 2/3rds of mature stories on the site, but almsot all of the mature stories which are featured are porn.

3475080

If there is a writing contest on works that include those actions, then it connects those who run the contest, judges, contributing authors and readers to stories that focus on those behaviors. In short, it could connect the entire fandom to those subjects. And since society reacts so strongly to those acts, they are guaranteed to react in a negative manner to any fandom that promotes works that have those acts as their focus.

In short, at its worst, it could turn the vast majority of humanity against the fandom, or at the extreme least cause a split within the fandom itself, which would create chaos and fracture our huge, somewhat-united community.

Nah, this is just pure delusional fantasy on your part.

In reality, no one would really care except the most disturbed individuals.

The net consequence would be pretty much zilch. It is not as if the website disallows any of these things - foalcon, rape, and incest all make the feature box regularly, and torture makes it sometimes.

I just don't think that most of these really make for a good contest.

Also, you obviously are unaware of the fact that there are, in fact, numerous stories about erotic rape in the world of erotic literature - it is an extremely common sexual fantasy. Torture, likewise, shows up both in erotic forms and in non-erotic, serious forms in things like 24 and various shows and movies about whether or not torture can ever be the correct course of action. Japan is full of lolicon stuff. And incest is featured in A Song of Ice and Fire, among many other things, which is a popular novel series and television show.

If you really think that this would cause society to "rise up against bronies", then you've got a serious lack of a grasp on reality. There are vastly more messed up things which occur on the internet on a daily basis. And a mature-rated story contest is pretty trivial - there's tons of good stuff in the world which is rated R or M.

3478008

I apologize first off for not being clear. You are absolutely right: stories of those types do in fact exist, and on average people don't care about them. I do admit that I do not read those types of stories myself, and I do have Mature turned off in my settings as a default, so I do not see all those stories of those types that make the feature box. This is a personal preference of mine, and it colored my perception of the issue.

I am sentient. I am not perfect. I miss things, like flawed sentient beings do from time to time, and sometimes sound like a complete total fucking idiot because of it. You were right to call out my bias, because it was hurting the discussion. Thank you for your critical thinking skills; I apparently didn't stop to think myself.

I was also worried about what COULD happen if things were taken to an extreme (which can happen among flawed sentient beings) and I let that worry drive my arguments instead of any sort of logic or fact.

Thank you for helping me realize how off-base I was. I cannot guarantee that my opinion or perspective will permanently change, but at least I won't assume that my opinion or perspective is fact, or if it represents fact.

I suppose I wonder if I was completely and utterly wrong, 100%. Maybe not in some places (wishful thinking on my part), but for the subject of this conversation, yeah, I was completely wrong.

Now, I did have some thoughts about a technical issue with running a contest of this kind: we would not be able to blog about it on FimFiction itself, because NSFW blog posts cannot be made anymore, because of the content restrictions put upon the site so that we could have ad revenue to keep the servers running, as knighty has explained multiple times on the site blog posts. We would have to run it entirely within group threads, and we wouldn't be able to advertise its existence to our followers outside of mass PMs. Plus, can PMs be NSFW, or do those suffer a similar restriction? Would mass-messaging our followers constitute distributing or linking pornography, even it it was contained on-site? We'd have to be very careful with any promotion efforts if that is the case.

Also, the contest would have to exclude erotica for the sake of erotica. After all, the point of the contest is for writers to show that terrible tropes or plot points can be well-written, well-paced, or just well-crafted in general, regardless of its content. That would end up excluding the large audience for pure erotica on this site from the contest, and since the stories would be mature, that already excludes the huge teen/everyone demographic as well.

Anyway, those are just some further thoughts. Make of them whatever you will.

And once again, thank you for helping me.

Sincerely,

Mr. Album