5619314
Still kind of a dressed-up Rokk, though. Not that this is necessarily a bad idea, depending on use, but for military purposes, what you get is basically, well, a space rock. Hematite is a metal ore, chemically speaking, but in practical terms it's stone, not something halfway between stone and metal. It has the resilience of a rock - a sharp blow with a hammer will shatter a brick-sized chunk of hematite. This applies to most metal ores.

5619236
i agree with you on that they need to move balance for fighters to a gameplay convinient rather than a lore accurate perspective.
and speaking of the lore the rebels/new republics fighter power comes from the focus on individuals rather than groups in the lore but thats a completely different conversation.

5619324
Yeah, I noticed that on the playthroughs for it. The capital ships tend to be a bit... derpy.

Do tell.

Imagine running something like that in Homeworld.

5619305
This is a good conversation to have. I hadn't pegged you as someone that would enjoy sci-fi that hard.

5619362
Well, so long as you're aware of it. A lot of people think of ore as some kind of special thing that isn't quite stone and isn't quite metal, but it's really just a fancy word for a rock you can squeeze metal from.

Since you can get space rocks in basically any size and the sheer reaction mass available offers better protection than any metal possible under the current understanding of materials science, it would actually be the better survivability in the face of relativistic weaponry, so there's that. Works like a kind of ablative armor, then.

5619372
You kidding? I have been reading hard scifi literally since the eighties. I'm actually surprised you didn't notice it earlier, I always think it's quite visible. I even quote Zelazny and Bester ever so often.

5619380
Actually I am completely unfamiliar with their works. I never read much past Asimov, Bradbury, Clarke, and Niven.

5619397
I'll look it over.

5619431
No context given on these, but if either of these appeal to you just on the sound of them, you might really like either one. They're very different, but some of the classic Greats of the genre, in my opinion. Bester would probably be more up your alley, I think. You may have heard of The Demolished Man, even if you haven't read it.

His followers called him Mahasamatman and said he was a god. He preferred to drop the Maha- and the -atman, and called himself Sam. He never claimed to be a god. But then, he never claimed not to be a god. Circumstances being what they were, neither admission could be of any benefit. Silence, though, could.

Gully Foyle is my name
And Terra is my nation
Deep space is my dwelling place
And death's my destination.

BTW, I totally thought the whole "there will be a test for GHIE story approvers" was just a joke.

5619439
Well, that was interesting.

BTW, I totally thought the whole "there will be a test for GHIE story approvers" was just a joke.

Look at the bright side, each admin had to pick two samples and I made sure that the ones I picked were actually enjoyable.

5619446

Well, that was interesting.

I do think so myself. In general, you are the type who I think would really enjoy David Brin's "Uplift" series. It's very "hoo-ah, humans are awesome and building a space empire without relying on Galactic Community paleo-tech," but in a tasteful way that doesn't veer into self-congratulation. It's a... five part series and really everything I think is good about that subgenre.

Look at the bright side, each admin had to pick two samples and I made sure that the ones I picked were actually enjoyable.

I just think it's funny because mike said to me a while ago "if people are taking this group this seriously, they're taking this group too seriously."

But eh, I'll manage.

5619465

humans are awesome and building a space empire without relying on Galactic Community paleo-tech

Interesting....
Also, why do so many writers use the ancient alien tech as a crutch?

I just think it's funny because mike said to me a while ago "if people are taking this group this seriously, they're taking this group too seriously."

Well the main reason is so we can filter out people that aren't going to do anything or are horribly incompetent. It's actually a variation on the test I had to take to become an Admin back in the day.

5619512

Interesting....
Also, why do so many writers use the ancient alien tech as a crutch?

In this case, it actually isn't a crutch, it's an integral part of the setting and there for a good reason. The series is named Uplift because, as it suggests, there exists an ancient, million-years old galactic society of many species - all of them uplifted. It is, in-setting, believed that since the first Precursors, who uplifted the original generation of species, there has not been a single species that actually evolved to full, space-worthy sapience on its own. All of them needed a patron to do it for them. As a consequence, there is an openly available library of ancient technology that is so highly refined, there just isn't much left to add. Many ships are centuries old and have been in service for generations because of it. That's where the paleo-tech comes in.

When humanity, or "Earthclan," pops up and claims to be a race of "wolflings," with no Patron and no one to uplift them? Most are not sure what to believe. Many others are quite sure that it has to be bullshit. That is basically the backdrop of the setting that everything else happens in front of. It's very well-executed.

5619372
I just kind of prefer the sort of split between tactical and strategic view in Empire at war that and battles in Empire at War feel a little more tactical.

5619289

More unrefined mineral ore than metal

Gina Reinhardt can into space!

5619542
They make canned Gina Reinhardt?

5619524
Fascinating.

5619530
Even though most of that tech wasn't even really lost....

5619536
Yeah, I can see that. Though I prefer Sins pathfinding given how many times I've seen an SSD and a Viscount get seemingly stuck on open space.

5619560
I thought you'd like that. The second book in the series consists entirely of a human organizing a planetary resistance against a force of attacking rival Patrons and leading the planetary population of uplifted chimpanzees in a guerilla defense of the planet (and discovering the latent human talent for empathy/telepathy along the way.)

The third involves a spaceship full of genetically engineered sapient war dolphins. It's awesome. I recommend them.

5619570

genetically engineered sapient war dolphins.

*Liir flashbacks intensify*

5619574

*Liir flashbacks intensify*

Literally like that, just with less psionics. I knew you'd get a kick out of that.

5619570

uplifted chimpanzees in a guerilla defense of the planet

MUST
RESIST
PUNS

5619588
You don't even know how much of a struggle it was for me to write out that sentence as it is.

5619596
I can only imagine...

5619606
It's even worse because in the end, it turns out that it was, in fact, a gorilla war.

No, I'm not gonna explain that, it would spoil the story. It actually makes sense in context, though.

5619623
Oh dear lord...

5619560
Something that big will always have that problem.

5619626
Yeah, I could never quite shake the suspicion Brin wrote that one just for all the cheesy jokes that the book never actually ends up making.

5619656
I would totally buy someone doing that.

5619655
It's still hilarious to watch an SSD continually turn in circles instead of it actually going to where it was told to go.... so long as it's happening to someone else.

5619702
certainly at least makes dealing with the escorts easier.

5619736
Indeed.

5619757
Interesting thing to note back on topic is that Ronald D. Moore, who as you know worked on both Star Trek and Battlestar Galactica in his essay's on science fiction advocates the Colonial CIC placement over the Federation bridge placement as it is better suited for a dedicated warship.

One thing that I feel needs to be considered in this debate is just how effective your ships defenses are. Comparatively Starships in Star Trek tend to crumble pretty quickly once they lose shields, Star Wars often seems to have a similar problem. By contrast ships without shields such as UNSC vessels and Galactica tend to be able to take considerably more punishment.

Galactica went out with most of her outter armor stripped off, stripped by the Colonial Fleet looking armor on the cheap. Considering that Galactica then went four years without access to a ship yard or anything beyond bare bones repair facilities and engaged in multiple battles with the Cylons who most certainly aren't throwing around peashooter missiles, most of those beasts are reported to be at least up to 15 megaton warheads Galactica tanked them with only minor to moderate damage. For additional points 15 megaton nuclear warheads are more than able to destroy Covenant Ships that have lost shields.

I have a theory, is it possible that Space Navies that develop shielding tech let their armor tech fall by the wayside potentially as a resource conserving or cost cutting measure? Or is something else at work?

5623598
That does make some sense, and there's also historical precedent for it. Between the end of WWII and the 1970s, US Navy ships became gradually less armored as active defenses became more effective. It was only after an incident where one of our destroyers was nearly sunk by an accident that a WWII destroyer would have brushed off did that change.

Likewise, in Star Trek: Beyond they establish that Polarized Hull Plating (armor) was abandoned because shields were far more effective.*

It could also be related to the weapon power/effectiveness. Like how plate armor was slowly abandoned after the invention of guns and eventually replaced said armor with kevlar. I bring this up because having too much armor can actually be dangerous in some cases.

*Though that raises questions about what exactly is the Structural Integrity Field is since one theory was that the SI field was just polarized armor by a different name.

5623690
THis may seem odd necroing a thread like this but I have new although probably minor point to add to the situation. Another reason why having a bridge close to the hull maybe a bad idea is boarding actions. WHile they are excessively rare if boarding craft were attempt to breach the ship (or transport, or teleport, or whatever) I would honestly not want to lose the bridge and command staff because enemy shock troops just cut through the hull or something and came out on the bridge or close to it. Having it deeper in would mean that the enemy would have to fight through quiet a lot more security forces or shipboard marines before they can shoot the captain and the rest of the bridge crew and then take control of the ships systems. It is a minor problem at best I admit but you know what they say about assuming; it makes an ass out of you and me. That and who wants a squad of Terminators to land on your bridge? Once read a rather amusing comedy series where that happened, did not end well for the ships crew.

5691228
I think that would depend upon the transportation technology and counter measures.

For example:
Do transporters exist?
-Yes
-But they can be jammed
-But only by specific tech
-Bridge should be placed in an area heavily shielded by this tech
-by numerous pieces of common tech
-Placement does not matter as much. Common tech in key spots will keep transport directly to the bridge unless ambush/combat disables tech
-And cannot be jammed
-Bridge placement does not matter. Enemy will beam in wherever they want
-No
Do you need to disable the ship before boarding?
-Yes
Bridge placement does not matter. The fight is already lost.
-No
Go to "Can boarding pods cut through hulls rapidly?"
Can boarding pods penetrate shields?
-Yes
Can boarding pods cut through hulls rapidly?
-Yes
Is this cutting tech man portable?
-Yes
Bridge placement matters slightly. Though it will only buy you a little time as the boarding parties bypass your defenses by cutting though the decks/bulkheads
-No
Bridge should be placed as far away from the hull as possible
-No
Are hulls strong enough to last under sustained bombardment?
-Yes
-See "can boarding pods cut through hulls rapidly?"
-No
Is it easier to disable the ship's systems from a distance?
-Yes
Bridge placement does not matter. Enemy will cripple you from afar and the fight is lost
-No
Go to "can boarding pods cut through hulls rapidly?"

Or something like that.

EDIT: Dammit, fimfic screws up the format.

5691315
Or failing that, bulkheads/forcefields that can be engaged and the boarded area vented into space/depressurized/filled with noxious gas.
The only time I can see boarding as useful is on partially or completely crippled vessels where you need the vessel or people intact.

5691334
Also true.

5691353
5691334
I've given it a lot of thought actually. It would in theory be possible but only under specific circumstances and would be an extremely high risk maneuver.

As I also said I acknowledged that the threat was a fairly minor problem.

One reason I can think of to do so is something like U-505. Capturing an enemy ship mostly intact with all of its communications gear undamaged? That is an intelligence coup right there.

5691554
In which case, logical bridge placement would keep Main Engineering, Auxiliary Control, Main Bridge, and any other secondary bridge as far away from each other as possible to prevent an enemy boarding force from taking all areas at once.
That way, the highest ranking officer can engaged the self-destruct sequence/scuttling charges.

5691693
True but they would still need to be accessible to one another without having to run a total maze for the sake of functionality. You can put main engineering on a separate deck, Main bridge towards the center, and have an auxiliary bridge/Observation bridge either further forward or aft. In such a case I would put the Auxiliary bridge forward as it would have a clearer field of vision for manual observation.

I would also recommend making sure you can't draw a perfectly straight line through all three, or set it up so that the only place such a line could be achieved is by going through where the armor, shields, and point defense provide the most protection. Last thing you want is one lucky shot gutting the entire ship.

5712010

Last thing you want is one lucky shot gutting the entire ship.

If the enemy has a gun that gan penetrate the entire height, length, and/or width of a ship. I don't think it matters where the bridge is, one shot will render you combat ineffective.

5712017
Salient point, but I'd rather be safe than sorry. 1% increased survival chance is still better than 0%.