I laid on my back, looking up at Luna.
She stared back down at me in turn.
“So… what do you think?” I asked after several long moments.
Luna's ear twitched, “Give me a second to think,” she said and moved off me, frowning towards the window.
Well… at least she didn’t tell me I was being an idiot at once. So maybe it wasn’t a bad plan after all.
That or it was advanced stupid and just needed some processing first.
Luna finally jumped off the bed and trotted into the snowstorm outside, closing the door behind her and soon I saw the glow from her horn through the whirling snow.
I just rolled onto my side and waited for her.
I was far from certain about the idea myself and not just because I knew the level of work and hardship required to even give it a tiny chance of working. But because I was certain ponies would get hurt from it. It would be dangerous and ponies would likely die.
The door to the bedroom opened and Sunset walked inside. I looked over at her and she crossed to jump up next to me, touching her horn to mine, “Hey.”
“Hey,” I said and smiled up at her, “Thought you were going to stay with Sparks tonight?”
She nodded and shifted, hooking her forelegs across my barrel, leaning in to steal a small kiss, “Was the plan,” she said and then shrugged, “But she and Midnight are going to pull an all-nighter. Apparently they think they are on to something and don’t want to lose it.”
I nodded and rolled onto my back, looking up at her, “You think they really have it?”
“If somepony can, it’s those two,” Sunset said and frowned, “But I saw the equations, it’s… amazingly complex.”
“Yeah…”
Sunset sighed and then shifted to get comfortable, resting her head against my chest, “Luna outside?”
“Mmm,” I said and stroked her mane softly, “Walking her pet rock. She’ll be in soon.”
Sunset smiled against me and shook her head slightly before nuzzling at my coat, “Sleepy time?”
“Soon,” I agreed and sighed softly.
The door outside opened and Luna slipped inside in a flurry of snowflakes before closing the door behind her. Sunset looked over towards her and smiled, lighting her horn.
The reddish glow of Sunset's magic ran across the alicorn, gathering any snow from her coat and mane and then teleporting it outside.
Luna smiled and nodded to her, “Thank you, Sunset,” she said and then crossed over to us, jumping onto the bed and giving her a small nuzzle.
“Welcome. Nopony wants snow in the bed,” Sunset answered and nuzzled back, “Do you have court today?”
Luna nodded, “I do, but I may push it back, we have a lot to talk about.”
Sunset frowned, “Like what?”
“Well,” Luna said and glanced at me, “Page’s plan.”
Sunset turned to look at me warily, “Plan? What plan?”
“I came up with a plan to help the thestrals,” I said and frowned, “I don’t know if it’s a good one, I want to run it past some ponies before anything.”
Sunset nodded, “So what’s the plan?”
Luna looked at me and I gave her a nod so she turned to Sunset, “Page wants to gather all the thestrals and their families and build a new village at the edge of the southern jungle.”
Sunset blinked at her and then rounded at me, “Are you out of your mind!?”
I sighed and laid back against the bed, “Possibly,” I admitted and looked to Luna, “What do you think?”
“Well,” she said and shifted her wings, “...I actually think it may work.”
Sunset looked at her with wide eyes, “What!?”
“Equestria has founded colonies before,” Luna said, “It was actually fairly common once. One major problem currently for Thestrals is that they are spread out and hidden.”
“That combined with the curse messing with reproductive rates is causing thestral populations to constantly shrink,” I said and put my hoof against Sunsets, “Getting everypony in one place should… naturally help.”
I didn’t want to do something as crass as call it a bat pony breeding program, but… with enough in the same village, nature would nature… and if Sparks and Midnight managed to break the curse and blood magic, all the better.
Sunset frowned slightly, “...Okay… I guess I can buy that. But why in Equestria would you want it down in a monster infested jungle!?”
“Because that’s where thestrals are from,” I said and shook my head, “Other than the random rain and the monsters… it felt nice. And I think others will like it too. Besides, not like we would build that deep into the jungle and any monsters… well, there are solutions to that.”
Sharp. Pointy. Possibly burning solutions.
“We!? You’re saying you’d go too!?”
I nodded, “I would have to. Unless I do, it would never work.”
Sunset rounded on Luna, “And you like this plan!?”
Luna snorted and shook her head, raising her wings in frustration,, “No, I hate it,” she said, “Do you really think I’d like My Page off in some jungle? Monsters or no monsters? Weeks away from Canterlot!?”
Sunset cringed, “...No… no of course not. Sorry.”
Luna gave her a small nuzzle, “Sadly, I also think it could work,” she admitted with a small sigh of regret, “Especially if Twilight Sparkle and Midnight succeed in their research. Just dismissing it out of hood would be wrong against the bat ponies of Equestria.”
I nodded in agreement, “I’m not exactly a big fan of the plan either, but I do think it could work. I especially hate it as I know that it means being away from you two.”
“Not from me, if you’re going, so am I,” Sunset said and shook her head, looking at Luna.
Luna sighed, “I… could not leave my sister alone with the rest of Equestria,” she said leaned in to give me a small kiss, “Which is one reason why I hate this plan.”
“I know,” I admitted and looked to Sunset, “But what about you? What about Sparks?”
Sunset rolled her eyes, “Like she’d not go along for this. It’s almost as much her project as it’s yours.”
I smiled sadly up at her, “I guess that’s true.”
Luna shifted her wings, “Have you discussed this with my sister?”
I shook my head, “Not yet, wanted to talk to you two first. Because if either of you tell me not to, I just have to find a new plan.”
Luna and Sunset shared a look before Luna sighed and gave me a small kiss, “Would you mind if I discussed it with my sister?”
“Go for it.”
Luna nodded and gave Sunset a small nuzzle before pulling back and jumped off the bed and then paused to give us a smile, “Sweet dreams.”
“Good night,” Sunset said with a smile and relaxed against me.
“Good night,” I said and stroked her mane, “Stop by later?”
“Tomorrow, My Page,” Luna said and smiled before she left.
Sunset sighed softly against me, “Page,” she said after a long moment, “There are times I wish you were a less noble pony.”
“Didn’t you hear?” I asked with a smile and nuzzled at her ear, “I lost that titl-oof!”
Okay, okay! I’ll stop using that!
Well big points for thinking big Page, but your earned what Sunset did to you for that last comment.
Bat village BAT VILLAGE!!! If you don't call it Thestralia imma be quite posterior perturbed.
Pony Segregation in a non developed country(no infrastructure no trade routes nobody nearby to help) populated by pony eating monsters for the sole purpose of breeding.
Kinda saw that coming, but it will be interesting to see where it goes. Wonder if Luna would mind Page playing sire
And that’s how you build a Getto…
Did this work anywhere, ever?
I’ll give him the very „bad Plan“ tag for that idea.
I really hope Celestia sees the problems with this.
But, additional points for Sunny instantly agreeing to move with him.
This is just segregation and it plays into the nobles hands. Just look at Liberia, that did not end well.
I seriosly don't like the direction he is going with this and I hope you would subvert the trope and have Celestia stop it in its track.
And what about all the threshals who have jobs, families, children? No way they are going to abandon all of it to live in the asshole of civilization.
As bad as a plan as it is, his objective is to get more thestrals so having more in one spot would be the way to go. The humidity on their wings would probably feel nice too.
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It's not that bad idea and mostly why it seems so bad is because of Auschwitz.
It would make it easier to reproduce their numbers and create their own culture .
Every other tribe has their own culture
For example
Crystal ponies have their Empire and Crystal Faire
Pegasi have their whole Roman style
etc
Bat ponies have only Nightmare Moon to connect which .
They need their won city,culture,traditions
Also ,them being in one place would be easier to manga and have better estimated numbers of thestrals living in general
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Colonies established in unknown territory weren't guaranteed to survive and if every Thestral was there and it gets destroyed there won't be any left.
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You are looking at it like a normal colony but it's not the normal type of colony
It does not suppose to harvest and export stuff to capital for almost nothing in exchange .
And it's not created to increase borders
This supposed to be just a place to live in,release the curse and live freely without having to hide
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A ghetto is different from a group of people founding a new community. There are a lot of examples of persecuted people founding their own community and doing fine. Religious groups for example; Puritans, Quakers, Mormons, Amish, etc.
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This is probably what Page is aiming for
A place for Thestrals to have the curse to be released from them ,live freely, and develop their own culture
(maybe similar to Japanse culture or Asian style one, because how many times I saw thestrals and changelings portrayed by fans like that)
Wait I just thought about something that may happen
What if Twilight and Midnight will accidentally turn themselves into blood-drinking bat ponies by bein on an all-nighter?
images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/d67cb5bb-a8dd-4ac5-a78f-6af74d06eccd/d70cwbm-84376c43-0fa5-4820-810a-af302e07c614.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOiIsImlzcyI6InVybjphcHA6Iiwib2JqIjpbW3sicGF0aCI6IlwvZlwvZDY3Y2I1YmItYThkZC00YWM1LWE3OGYtNmFmNzRkMDZlY2NkXC9kNzBjd2JtLTg0Mzc2YzQzLTBmYTUtNDgyMC04MTBhLWFmMzAyZTA3YzYxNC5wbmcifV1dLCJhdWQiOlsidXJuOnNlcnZpY2U6ZmlsZS5kb3dubG9hZCJdfQ.C0UnIIDoiQOOBmuoJe4nm6qZ2yN-v4pU3Bmp1h-iDQs
Hoof?
That plan could probably go pretty wrong even if it works
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cmon we all know if they did it they wouldn't be doing it by accident, they'd be doing it to get into page's totally-not-a-herd herd
This plan doesn't sit well at all with me. We know there are plently of places in Equestria where it is mostly just a single tribe like Cloudsdale however Cloudsdale can be easily visited! Thestrals would be mostly isolated far from other settlements. A lot of the discrimination comes from the public's lack of postitive exposure to bat ponies.
How can the Thestrals' situation change by taking them FURTHER away from pony society??
Now just for a name...
Thestralia?
Cauldron is a group of bats. Hmmm Cauldron Keep?
Cloud is another name for a group of bats. Cloudhaven? Rather like that one. What do you all think?
Hmmm I could see it work, the jungle is just far away enough from big cities that there is less likely to be issues due to mob mentalities.
And it's still close enough to some towns that building a railway to make travel to and from there easier shouldn't be too hard.
And given that the jungle is mostly unexplored could allow for potentially exotic goods to be found, harvested and sold, so I can see some trade opportunities appearing as well.
Hmmm...
The idea is sound. However you need a way of getting goods down there. Trains will only get you so far. You're going to need the airship again. First up will be a fort for the Legion; they will be coming too and a defensive location will calm the nerves of the skittish. Second (probably will happen first) is retraining the Legion. Fighting animals is much different than another "ponynoid" creature. That was a horrible translation of humanoid but not all quadrupled creatures are sapient.
Fortunately the location is kinda safe. Your enemies, the nobility, are unlikely to make the effort to go down there until transport gets easy. Anything sent that way can be countered with a fort in some way. Most of the trouble will be the heartland. You have no bits (at least not enough to start what amounts to a kingdom) and travel is an issue. The colony will be slightly dependent on Equestria for a decade or so if they want modern living. If they don't mind going backwards a century or two in tech then you might reach self sustainability in a year.
That will be important if Page can't win the war with the nobles. First battle was a victory but the war has just begun.
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without a drawn map we don't know just how isolated. No rails are likely to end where Page is going. This plan is not to help them in greater society (at least not short term). They live in fear of discovery, they live in isolation of themselves. This plan allows them to walk out their front door and see others of their tribe, to gain some pride in what they are, and (most important) to allow their foals to grow up safe. There is no real world analogy for this to put it in context.
They still need activists for good publicity but not everyone can be that.
Thanks for the chapter
Well, this solves my earlier worries; for now anyway. I still can't help but think something is going to go very bad. Many things can go wrong going from Canterlot and a functioning colony.
I hope I'm only being pessimistic. No one wants to be right when things go wrong.
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I agree to this.
For now Page is trying to stabilize the remaining Thestral tribe. As The Weaver has tipped on, the feeling of freedom and comradely among those who are the same as you is a big morale boost. It makes you feel safe.
Taking them away from the public eye will indeed decrease Prince Page's progress to Thestrals being accepted in pony society, and will also mean any who oppose of Thestrals would know where to find all of them in one spot. But now at least they won't die out, and hopefully as the legal husband of Princess Luna, holder of the ear to Princess Celestia, Hero who defeated Tirek, and being a real Royal Prince of Equestria, would dissuade a majority of "naysayers" from openly being hostile. But we all already know there will be some who will try anyway. Such is the way of politics.
For this to go well, much delicate work will have to be done, and problems quickly found and solved.
We all root for Page.
"... and that is how the Lunar Empire was made."
" And then you got rid of all trashy nobles?"
"Yup, they don't call me Impaler for no reason!"
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Hm
Did you know that Vlad, the impaler, kept a gold goblet parked out by the well in the village outside his castle? The promise was simple; anyone who wanted a drink can use it. It was not nailed down or anything. Anyone at any time could walk up and walk off with it. It was a small fortune in and of itself. It was never stolen.
He ruled with such an iron fist that no one messed with the cup. And beggars drank from a golden goblet...
He measured his rule by that goblet; he did that good of a job...
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Well... that is interesting. :)
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/620/586/800.jpg
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I will admit you do make a good point. Allowing thestral kind a chance to re-establish a culture and build an identity as a proper pony tribe would be very beneficial.
However it doesn't change the fact that Page is making it ridiculously hard for himself by insisting on the village being in the jungle!
According to chapter 45, it took the Storm King's Mistake a week to get to the last villages of Equestria. Much much later, we learn that the rescue airship that came get Page and the others at the jungle temple took 2 weeks to get there. Let's assume that it took Canterlot two days to gather the rescue team together before taking off. That means the distance between edge of "civilized" Equestria and the jungle is equal to about 5 days of airship travel. A zeppelin in RL can travel 150-200 miles per day. Let's assume that Equestrian airships are not as fast as human airships and say they can only travel 75 miles per day.
Under these estimates, the jungle where Page wants to build a thestral village is possibly about 375 miles away from the nearest pony settlement. In context, the distance between New York City and Pittsburgh PA is 370 miles apart! That is WAY too far away for a thestral village to start from almost nothing while relying on Equestria to consistently bring them supplies!
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Mmm...
Sometimes (usually in sci fi) the author forgets (or never considers) the scale. All valid points from you. I just think the author doesn't know. On hand i have a hexagraph map someone made for a tabletop game in Equestria. An old map. In standard Pathfinder hex lengths with ponyfinder movement rate the jungle should start in 6 days by hoof (light encumbrance) which is 180miles give or take from Canterlot. That is assuming no foul weather, straight lines and marching a solid 8 hours...
Since i have this map i can consistently do distances. I have also learned to stop tracking other people; the magority don't use maps and get it wrong. I'm thinking the bloated distance is an oversight.
Now then...
Mainly the one tiny problem;
between edge of "civilized" Equestria and the part of the jungle that had the temple, and Page, is equal to about 5 days of airship
To our understanding he is not going that far in. He is, perhaps at most, going 75-150 miles in from the last village. Since you referenced 45 I'll give that chapter a look. (Thank you, they are too short and plentiful to scour). The reason i am going to look is because i don't think an exact mark was placed at jungle beginning or you might have included it...
Still too far but still a week by hoof. That is more bearable than 375 + miles to settlement big enough to help.
It sounds like Celestia gave him a thousand or more square miles to work with
I can't say I'm a huge fan of this plan. The way to fight prejudice is to educate people why they are wrong and to expose them to those they hate. Prejudice is caused by fear of the unknown, in its most basic sense, so making the unknown known, the fear loses its hold on people. By instead basically shipping all of the thestrals off to live in isolation away from the rest of Equestria, Page is doing the nobility's job for them. It's potentially reminiscent of Native American reservations or, in extreme cases, internment camps. I realize the quality of life will be significantly better, but it could have a similar effect.
This is also a lose-lose situation for any thestral who doesn't wish to leave Equestria for a monster-infested jungle. If they go, they lose all connections with their previous life. I can't imagine any of their non-thestral friends will want to go to just a horrible place, so they lose them. They have to effectively rebuild from scratch, both their livelihoods and jobs and even the village and public facilities they live with.
If they don't go, thestral friends and family may leave them behind to go. Any support system they had will likely fall apart with too small of an audience to continue functioning. The prejudice against thestrals can only increase from isolated themselves away, so it becomes even more dangerous for the thestral to live in Equestria. And now ponies might be more willing to take drastic actions without their “protector" Blank Page around to hear about it.
Pretty brilliant. Funny how it was first dismissed some chapters earlyer... But The Thestral have a entire Jungle for them! Blood needed? Hospitals and hunting Predators. Plenty of building material. The harsh life will create a warrior cast out of the Thestrals. Ones the Legion teaches the Village inhabitants all they know ,Blank Page Prince of Equestria will have a entire army! In a few years he might have THE best of the best! Royal Training army, survivel of the fittest.
Ponyville 2.0 but filled with military drilled population!
There CMC version will hunt deadly predators for fun and successful make it a daily thing ♡
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Breaking a big problem into smaller pieces:
- Rally start population
- Build village
- Fortify village
- Train every singel village member to Legion LVL
- Trained members start to hunt in the jungle for experience and supplement Hospital blood with hunted meat and blood
- Increase population
- Explore and conquer the Jungle
- Harvest the Jungle ( plants, wood & anti magic Dinos etc )
- Invide Changelings to create a Subhive. Hive-Thestral symbiotic relationship. ( Add King Pages Hive produced offspring to increase military strength for Hive and Thestral benefit.
- Add Changeling guard to every Thestral inhabitants to keep em save and build a symbiotic relationship like never one has existed before.
-
Expand hive population ( damn it Queen Chrysalis stop adding your stuff )- Invide Griffons to Village for added variation that passivly improve relation with there Kingdom
Just for starters
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Nobels will invest in this town since it will get em favor with Page. There is money to be made, favors to gain and ressources to obtain.
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Personaly i see more to gain than lose. Without Page there die out... Now they will grow in number, strength and importance to Equestria and its allys!
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Purrrfect ♡
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Ñothing worth keeping or building is ever easy. Equestria started basicly like that. Only Page can buy and trade from the start and call its allys for a mutual benefishal relationship. Trade, Infrastructur and ever growing bonds.
Ah yes. Segregation to avert thestral genocide. Genius.
they can create a portal that runs between the jungle and canterlott
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Even if my math ends up way off, I really hope that Page at least does some networking with whoever owns the lands between civilization and his Thestral village. The pony nobles may not directly threaten the village but I can see the nobles being petty enough to make it difficult for the supply lines to stay reliable. ("Emergency" inspections, bribing local weather teams for bad weather, etc)
Page doesn't need to make allies with every noble but he needs the support of those landowners to make this village have a fighting chance!
To avert extinction, every alternative option seems preferable.
Lots of people bringing up the segregation vs genocide, and no surprises it's causing drama, especially given real life history.
But there's no good choice between the two, alicorns think in the span of decades and ages. Is the slow death now preferable to the seperation and loss of potential integration via social contact? Plenty (the majority even) actively hide and are shunned by society. Effectively, you just get Thestrals feeling lonely and guilty for living a lie and in fear of being hated, moving them away is a net benefit over the current situation, sure, but perhaps there's other considerations?
People don't integrate well if they're a scattered bunch of individuals who have no regular chance of contacting each other. That's a cultural death sentence. If they had a source population to regularly immigrate from, a place they could call "home" and be home, they'd have a chance.
One thing many seem to not consider, is that I highly doubt that the place won't be made up of volunteers. Only the Thestrals who feel they have nothing to lose would go, Fluttershy has the M6 to back her up (I say it would be ooc if she didn't tell them). Not only that, but it's hardy going to be Thestral only, just Thestral majority.
Page could openly advertise his new town and intentions to make a safe haven for Thestral and all who would wish to help them. Hardly every pony is racist, and over there work on lifting the curse would progress way faster than otherwise. Give it a little time, and that small new town on the border of an unexplored jungle? With an exotic population supposedly cured of their ancient curse living in harmony? Welcoming to all that just isn't racist? Just set up an adventurer's guild and you've got a tiny New world waiting.
The hive would likely want to expand. Griffons might be interested in a joint settlement because its Page, if he openly advertises it as a place for the disenfranchised he would be attracting more than just Thestrals you know.
Actually had an idea similar to this once but it was more of a 'crossroads of the world' type placePage could name it Hollow Shades, because goddamnit what we got in canon was understandable, but still disappointing. Also learn to teleport, because what does a week's worth of travel mean to those that can move instantly? Surely there must be some literature on long-range fixed teleportation. Offload the power and precision costs onto a magic circle and some stuff to bring it into pony ranges.
Page is a prince now, and every ruler of Equestria has had their own place to rule from. The Crystal empire, Ponyville, the moon...sure he wouldn't be the sole ruler, but it's his chance to make the society he thinks should be, with citizens that agree with his vision and who would (mostly) be happy to be there. Won't be an easy life considering the jungle, but coming from the lives most would be? It just has to better than what they left behind.
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Mostly good options, but "Cloudhaven"?? You should've at least come up with Cloudsylvania.
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Blatantly Independent Republic of Batsylvania. BIRB for short.
Segregation far away from Proper ponies... Oh ya, that'll fix everything. It's the worst thing he could think of. It not only doesn't fix the underlying issues, it convinces the hatters that they were right all along and has the potential to separate families. Worst case scenario, someone like Nieghsay gathers together a group to make sure the colony fails. I've a great name for it, let's call it Batlystok.
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I hate to say it, but I happen to agree. It's sounding less like a safe haven and more like a concentration camp. Or, at least that's how the "nobles" will spin it, anyway... It's an ages-old tradition - seclude people you don't like, and push them out of everyone's mind.
Yes, it could work as a colony, but much like Australia - it'd take several hundred years before anything came of it. And I'm still afraid that it'd foster isolationism and create great mental divides, of the "us vs them" variety.
It could serve as a solution to the immediate problem - thestrals going extinct. But they'd be facing some very big issues down the line.
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I would have preferred it if it was referred to as more of a Retreat than a segregation village. Advertise it as a safety net for them, a place to go when they need to stretch their wing membrane without fearing being discovered and/or a place to raise children without having to force them to hide.
Heh. Reminds me of a webtoons comic also dealing with vampires calls Blades of Furry
From the feeling I'm getting from this bat colony idea we should call it batswitch
Also this feels like a less intrusive breeding program
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You’re about 2000 years too late to worry about the “us vs them” thing. They’re already that way.
Yeti might come to Canterlot for a easy victory in canon, but in this story all they can get is a easy dying when eventually ending up in Thestral Central
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Alright, you did i for me. If we don't get a badpony to join the CMC, I'm going to riot!
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I like your plan evil overlord.
How are the batponies supposed to be more accepted into society if they move hundreds of miles away from civilization? Based on the cover art of the latest story (#13), plus the next story being "Welcome to the Jungle," I'm guessing that that's what happens.
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They need to grow in numbers first.
Thousands under hundred of thousands is hardly be seen anywhere else then where they life.
Crystal ponies of the time displaced empires the same problem.
This is the start of a new chapter for all of Equestria.