• Published 10th Sep 2017
  • 1,223 Views, 72 Comments

Through Another’s Eyes - Pascoite



The griffons demand the return of hunting grounds they owned long ago. But since Princess Luna’s return, Equestria has only grown more formidable. In a small village of the disputed region, Lucky Strike finds herself caught up in a war not her own.

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Through Another’s Eyes

“I’m afraid I must insist,” Ambassador Goldschmidt said as he clenched a talon and leaned forward over the table.

No surprises there. As long as Princess Celestia had known him, the griffon diplomat had always insisted on much. More time to speak, inconvenient schedules for appointments, more concessions favorable to his nation. All part of his duties, she supposed, but it began to grate after a while.

And he probably felt exactly the same way about her.

“Out of the question,” she said. “I can’t abide giving you hunting privileges on those lands.” Celestia tapped a hoof on the unfurled map, well within the heavy line marking the limits of Equestrian territory.

“One settlement!” another griffon erupted, the medals on her chest jangling. “One paltry pony settlement in the whole place, and we wouldn’t even have to go near it!”

Celestia sighed. “General… Kaufmann, was it?” The griffon who had spoken narrowed her eyes and nodded. “It is not only the ponies who fall under my protection. The animals as well—all of Equestria is designated as a wildlife sanctuary.”

“…Should be a snacktuary,” she heard one of the low-ranking griffon aides mutter. Celestia stared at him until the smirk had faded from the ambassador’s face, and he, too, turned to shake his head.

“You don’t need it,” Celestia said, finally turning her attention back toward the map. “You have plenty of food sources, and I’m not prepared to allow animal harvesting within our borders. Period.”

Minister Lehrer, of the Foreign Affairs Office, clicked her tongue. “You don’t seem to care about fish. What makes them so different?”

This again. “We have discussed the matter before. Not all of my ponies are happy with the decision, but we recognize the necessity of it, and on the whole, we are comfortable with the compromise.” Celestia flicked a hoof toward the window. “It has no bearing on the current discussion, which, frankly, is making equally little progress. I see no reason to belabor the point.”

General Kaufmann rolled a shoulder in front of the ambassador and hovered low over the map. “Those were our ancestral hunting grounds for centuries, and we mean to have them back,” she said through bared teeth. “The finest stock of rabbits anywhere, and we’ve offered you more than generous compensation!”

“It is not up for negotiation,” Celestia said as she slid the map from under the general and rolled it up. “Now, are there any other matters that will require our attention this morning?”

“We are quite willing and able to go to war over this,” Minister Lehrer said slowly. She probably thought that would sound intimidating.

Celestia held in her laugh, if barely. No, she’d win the battle of tact as well. “As I recall, an ill-advised declaration of war is what led you to lose those lands in the first place.”

“Only because we hadn’t recovered from our skirmishes with the minotaurs yet,” Ambassador Goldschmidt said. He glanced up at the general, who stood straight again and resumed her position beside his chair. “We are much stronger now.”

“And I have my sister back,” Celestia said in a low voice.

The ambassador pushed himself from the table and rose. “What can one more alicorn do? She may well take a few warriors down with her, but they are prepared to go. It will make no difference.”

“Do not underestimate her.”

He hesitated, but only for the briefest second. Then he wheeled about and strode for the door, his staff and colleagues following in his wake. “One month, Princess. You have one month.”


Lucky Strike rummaged through her father’s toolbox. Where had he put those blasted chisels? She needed to practice, or she’d never pass her next apprenticeship exam!

She also needed to stay calm about the whole thing. So she took a deep breath, sat up straight, and looked at her reflection in the mirror on the workbench. “You can do this,” she said to the brown-coated, brown-maned unicorn returning her gaze. Then with a glance at the jeweler’s loupe cutie mark on her flank, she trotted out to the back porch, where Dad kept his tool grinder.

Sure enough, he’d honed his lightest chisel down to a sharp edge and left it out there, along with the entire pouch of them. He probably meant to get to them all before he had to leave, but she only needed the one he’d finished. She smiled and made a mental note to thank him when he got home.

And beside the chisels, a bag of agates. Another surprise from Dad. Her next exam was polishing opals, and while agates weren’t as fragile, she could practice her cuts on them. Similar enough.

She grabbed the tools and stones, and spread them out on her end of the workbench, then held one of the agates under a magnifier in her magic. She rotated it until the light caught it just right, and… there! A few imperfections, running parallel to each other. She turned the chisel’s blade to align with them, felt around with a hoof for the small half-ounce hammer, and gave the chisel a soft tap.

Nothing.

A little harder, and—stupid, stupid, stupid! The stone shattered into a dozen pieces. Align the blade and the direction!

So she examined the largest fragment, made sure to check the grain on both sides, then tried a happy medium with her hammer. Three taps later, and she had a nice face exposed! A little curvy, but not abnormally so—she could polish it out later, if she needed.

Dad would be proud of her, but obviously a broken piece, so he’d know she screwed up the first try. She wouldn’t leave this one out for him to see, then. Just grab another one, and she could quickly—

“Lucky Strike!” a filly yelled before Lucky even registered the tinkling bell from the storefront.

“I told you not to barge in like that when I’m trying to work!” she shot back, but Sugar Beet danced around like she’d gotten into an anthill or something, her namesake cutie mark bobbing about on her dark gray coat. No way Lucky would get anything done now.

With a sigh, she turned off the worklight and put her tools down. “What is it?” she groaned.

“Did ya hear?” Sugar said through her panting. “Griffons in the mountain passes, not lettin’ anypony by! There’s even been a few fights!”

Lucky glanced out the window at a pair of armed unicorns walking past. They had seen quite a few soldiers out here the last few weeks, on patrol over by the griffon border. That was miles away, though. The new ones apparently picked up their orders here, and during their breaks, the on-duty ones would stop by town for some drinks or conversation—well, rather one-sided conversation. They’d never answer any questions about what would bring them all the way out to this speck in the middle of nowhere.

Come to think of it, a few of the adults had seen more griffons than usual in the woods, but still very few. The griffons had never really caused any ruckus, so ponies just kind of looked the other way when one passed through, often with something furry barely visible under their wings. It had never led to any confrontations, but maybe the Guard had gotten sick of them poaching? It was just a few dumb rabbits. Fights, though…

“Who? What did they do?”

“I dunno,” Sugar replied, “but a kid in my class has an older brother whose girlfriend said her cousin saw the supply run comin’ from Canterlot get stopped, and when the ponies tried to push through, the griffons turned over the wagon, spillin’ everything all over!” She sucked in a gulp of air and caught her breath for a second. “Stomped on it all, too, kicked it into the river. Said if they were gonna make trouble, they couldn’t even turn around and take it back to Canterlot with ’em.”

That didn’t make sense! “Do you even listen to yourself? That story’s been through so many mouths that it’s chewed up beyond recognition. The griffons don’t bother us, and we don’t bother them.”

Sugar plopped into a chair and eyed the open bag of granola on the coffee table. Lucky waved a hoof at it and nodded, so Sugar reached in for a hoofful. “Only thing the griffons let through was a letter from Celestia,” she mumbled undeterred, “and the pony carryin’ it. Bronze Patina, one of the no-kiddin’, guards-the-Princesses types, I think. He’s gonna read it in the town square in fifteen—” she glanced at the clock “—ten minutes. You gotta come!”

Lucky twisted her mouth and looked at the clock herself while Sugar dug into the granola again. Nothing ever happened out here. Probably just some training exercises, and they wanted all the townsponies to stay out of the way. So Lucky got out her polishing cloth and started buffing her freshly cut stone. She could get at least one facet gleaming before she had to go.


“What’s an occupation?” Morning Bell said as he walked alongside Sugar Beet and Lucky Strike.

“Like…” Lucky rolled her eyes up at the sky and squinted. “Basically, the griffons want to send a bunch of soldiers to take over the woods where they hunt rabbits, so the Guard wants to do the same thing first. Whatever. That’s many miles away.” Just a featureless backcountry part of Equestria that jutted into the griffon lands. Those woods on the west end and their town of Mossy Glen to the east. It didn’t appear on many maps.

“So,” Lucky continued, “there’s only one road in here, and the Guard set up camp along it to make sure they could resupply, then the griffons threatened to put it under siege.”

“What’s a siege?” At least Morning Bell had outgrown a toddler’s need to ask “why” about everything, but this wasn’t much better.

“It means they’ll keep the road blocked up. We’re not going anywhere, and nopony’s coming here.”

“Oh…”

Sugar furrowed her brow. “How are we gonna get any food?”

“That’s kind of the point,” Lucky answered. “We have whatever’s stored, plus the few gardens in town. The Guard can’t carry as much by air, but they’ll fly in whatever they can to us. We just have to wait it out until everyone comes to their senses.” She unlocked her front door, letting them into her family’s shop, and they all flopped onto the couch in the side room. When would their parents get home? Should be them explaining this stuff to their kids, especially ones this little. Beet was eight, and Bell only five—no cutie mark on his gleaming white coat. All three of them with brown manes, too. Seemed to run in the family, even her little earth pony cousins there.

Sugar Beet raised an eyebrow. “I thought that was a blockade. Isn’t a siege—?”

Across the street, something tore through the apartment above the pharmacy, and a rain of splintered wood pelted the front window. Bell shrieked and dove under the coffee table, and Sugar peered over the back of the couch. “What the—?” she said, and the next word clearly formed on her lips brought a stern glare from Lucky.

“Language!”

A deathly quiet had drifted over the streets outside like flakes of ash from a campfire. But nothing more happened. Some sort of accident in the chemist’s lab? Lucky cautiously approached the door and craned her neck to see up and down the street. No movement. Except by the market—two ponies stared open-mouthed up at—

A whistling sound, and then the lumber mill’s storage shed tore apart. Smoke rose from the next street over, a corner of the small clock tower shattered in a spray of stone, a cloud of dust kicked up in the road, and for a split second, a metallic glint shone through the haze. A… a cannonball?

“You two!” Lucky barked. “Under the workbench! It’s heavy and sturdy. Now!” They scrambled to obey, and another boom sounded as a shot crashed into the post office. Lucky knelt down and pressed her nose to Sugar’s. “You watch after Bell. You hear me? Keep him here, and don’t let him out of your sight. Got it?”

“Y-yes!” she answered, tears already trickling down her face. “M-Mom?”

Lucky set her jaw and looked back outside. Already, the few unicorns who knew shield spells were piecing one together in fits and starts, but half of the glowing panes immediately got smashed by incoming shells. She had to help. She couldn’t cast a shield, but any unicorn could reinforce or sustain one just by adding her magic. “I’ll find her. I have to go. They’ll need unicorns.” Halfway to the door, Lucky stopped. “You stay here,” she said again, before dashing out. The shouting in the street almost drowned out the whimper behind her.


“Why do you have to go out, Dad?” Lucky said, tugging at his saddlebags. She’d already wiped away all the tears before she came upstairs, or at least tried. Weeks of this now, but how many? She’d lost count of the days, but she hadn’t lost count of the gruesome injuries accumulating at the medical tent she had to pass on the way to her assigned shield station.

“Not much call for jewelry in battle, is there?” Sapphire Facet tousled her mane. “I have to do my part somehow.”

Lucky choked down what threatened to escape from her throat. “You—you can help keep the shields up with me.” She couldn’t stop her voice from shaking.

He nodded and threw a cloak over his back. “I take my shifts at it. But my dark color makes me a good night scout, and we need to know what’s happening out there and keep supplies coming in.”

From the cloak’s pocket protruded a scrap of paper, the latest letter to come out of Canterlot. He’d pass it on to the next pony when he reported for duty, until everypony had a chance to read it. It had sat right there on the table during dinner, but she never read it. Her father didn’t press the point.

Same as yesterday’s, she guessed, with promises that the Guard camp had it worse, and they never expected to see Mossy Glen become a target, but they’d do everything possible to keep food and medicine heading here. They’d sabotage griffon equipment and disrupt their lines, but they had orders not to kill. She remembered that sentence well. It was underlined. Twice.

Just more of that. A fat lot of good it did. Well, the shelling had reduced some, if that could be called a positive. Still, yesterday’s six-hour respite due to one of the griffon holidays had produced more goodwill than anything with Canterlot’s seal on it.

She’d seen too many of the day scouts come back with horrible wounds… if they came back at all. The night scouts fared a little better. A little.

“Why don’t you go over to Sugar Beet’s house? Her mom is doing an inventory and could use some help. Morning Bell will be there, too.” He winced as another explosion sounded somewhere overhead. The griffons just would not let up, probing for the little cracks that’d appear here and there in the shields. And to keep them from getting any sleep. The shields muffled it some, but not nearly enough.

Lucky could only nod, but as Facet started toward the stairs, she tugged at his saddlebag one last time and pulled him into a hug. She held onto him for a long time. He’d come back. He would.

And then he was gone. One great big silence, punctuated by the occasional explosion. She might as well do as Dad had asked. Aunt Ginger didn’t need to mind the store and the kids at the same time, and Lucky had a shift at recharging shields just after midnight. It’d help keep her from nodding off until then, into one of those half-hour naps that left her feeling even more tired.

On her way down the street, she gazed up at the pearly iridescence in the sky keeping them safe. It shrunk for just a moment, back to the old stone gatehouse, to let the scouts through. To let her father through.

One of the covered outdoor market stalls had been converted to a triage center for the wounded, but she couldn’t look. She owed it to them to see, to acknowledge, but she couldn’t. She’d seen enough that first night, from all the traps the griffons had set. They sure knew how to design them for big prey, and weeks ago, when the first couple of casualties had returned with those awful bear traps clamped on…

She couldn’t look, and she pinned her ears back to shut out as many of their cries and groans as she could. Half of them were soldiers who’d managed to make it here through enemy lines, only to become a burden.

The soft glow of firefly lamps permeated her aunt’s market when she pushed the door open, and it took a minute for her mind to filter back in from the numbness. They didn’t have the luxury of electric lighting right now, and supermarkets just didn’t have fireplaces. “How’re we gonna make money if we give this all away?” Sugar asked from one of the far aisles.

“It’s our contribution,” Aunt Ginger replied. “Besides, what good would it do to have all this rot on the shelves while ponies starved outside? They don’t have any money to use, anyway.” She dumped a pile of spinach cans on the floor and started doling it out into small boxes that already had bars of soap, packets of crackers, fresh fruit—anything she could divide up, especially anything that would go bad soon.

“Oh!” Ginger said, and jerked a hoof to her chest. “Lucky, you scared me half to death!”

“I’m sorry.” Lucky grabbed a clipboard off the counter. Every family, written out in detail, with notations for who had special needs for medicine, food allergies, whatever. Lucky snorted out a small laugh. Nopony could rally the community quite like Aunt Ginger.

Sugar and Bell poked their heads around the ends of one of the shelves. “Lucky’s here!” And of course they came bounding over and practically tackled her.

She struggled under their weight, became hopelessly overwhelmed by their assault, then miraculously broke free. “You’ll have to do better than that to subdue the Mane-iac!” she crowed, tossing the clipboard back on the desk.

Ginger giggled and mouthed a silent thank-you. Then another boom outside. The kids hardly reacted anymore. Only a couple weeks, and… it didn’t bother them. In other ways, yeah, but the cannon shots—so destructive, and they just accepted it as part of their lives now.

“Do you know if Taffy had her foal yet?” Ginger asked before Lucky could get too lost in eluding her pursuers.

“Um… I think so? Pegasus, right? Kind of a light purple?”

Ginger nodded quickly. “Right. You’re right. I need to give them a bigger ration of milk.” All business and smiles. She hid it well. At least her husband was a medic. He’d stay pretty safe here, tending to the wounded, inside the shields.

But justice waits for nopony, and the Power Ponies soon had their quarry on the run again, through the narrow streets of crumbling shelf-buildings, and for an hour or two, Lucky could imagine the shouts outside coming from concerned citizens cheering their heroes on.

She lumbered around, the stalwart champions ensnared in her flowing locks. A touch of unicorn magic aided in the effect, but her horn ached, and she hadn’t even served tonight’s turn at shields yet. The pale blue glow died away, and they pounced on her back, pinning her to the ground for good. The villain captured, the town settling back into its peaceful routine.

Soon enough, the time came for her to do her duty. Her next duty, anyway. With a wave to Ginger, her bare shelves, and her endless array of boxes spread out around her, Lucky strode out to relieve her evening-shift counterpart at shield station nine.


Only a few months until Lucky Strike should have graduated. And while they’d combined all the classes into one for efficiency’s sake, it wouldn’t count. She’d have to wait another year, if there was another year.

Three months of this now, and they’d lost almost three dozen scouts and probably seventeen of the pegasi who guarded the gate. And Dad… He’d make it, thank goodness, but when he came back that night with a dart embedded deep in his shoulder—a poison dart, one designed to act slowly, sap morale, tax medical supplies. His fever had finally broken after two days, and he’d make it, one of only three or four who could say so. But how long until he was pressed into service again? And who used weapons like that? Cruel weapons.

Of course, the teacher—Morning Bell’s mother and Lucky’s Aunt Honeybee—couldn’t do much more than keep the kids occupied or arrange for them to work in small groups. Mostly, she read them stories or had them play games. So once again, they had one of their open discussions. Bell had edged toward doing so a little more each day, and he finally asked: “Why won’t Princess Celestia help us?”

Honeybee immediately turned for the copy of the letter she always had handy. The letter, whatever latest one had come out of Canterlot. And like a brainwashed cult member, she said, “Let’s see what the scroll says about that.”

Damn that thing. Honeybee understood it as well as anypony else, but when forced to live it, understanding didn’t count for much anymore. “Princess Celestia doesn’t wish to hurt anyone, griffon or pony. She hopes that we can resolve all this peacefully. The griffons love their children just as much as we do, and the individual soldiers are not our enemy. Each one killed is a tragedy, and we must minimize that as much as possible, even if it means enduring larger losses than the griffons do. We will use the Guard to disrupt griffon efforts and keep Mossy Glen supplied, but we must avoid direct military action if we are to live up to our own ideals.”

Honeybee waved a hoof to the west. “Princess Celestia herself has taken up station at the garrison along the road, shielding her soldiers from harm. They are suffering a far fiercer assault and must remain in place, or the whole region may fall.”

Easy to say. Lucky would do the same thing if she were calling the shots. Actually killing an enemy? That didn’t sit right. But with friends, neighbors, family bleeding, some already in the ground… Would she die for that ideal? And over some damned rabbits!?

She’d toss bucketloads of the stupid things over the wall, kill them herself, if it would make the griffons go away, if it would make all this stop. She’d do anything. And she’d hate herself for it, if she hadn’t already started.

“We can’t change who we are,” Lucky said. Out loud, probably, since everypony was looking at her. And their eyes stabbed a thousand arguments at her: “Yes, we can. We should. They made us. It’s about survival now.” “We already have. It’s too late.” “We have to. We’re the ones who let this happen. Our suffering is our own fault.”

Another bombshell sounded in the silence.

Lucky stood and walked to the window. Some discussion had started behind her again, but it wasn’t real school anymore. It didn’t matter. She should take some of the instant coffee she still had over to her dad and see if she could move him back to the house. He’d feel better on his couch than on some straw pallet.

Off in the distance, a flash of white. A griffon, peeking out from the trees. Probably a forward observer, directing the artillery. A year ago, none of those terms would have meant anything to her. But now that feathered head, peering at her with no more regard than it would for one of those damned rabbits that it would love to tear to bloody shreds. He even looked happy. Could she really see a smile from this distance? Sure she could. Laughing over there. How many more dead today?

She understood him. She understood completely. She understood Celestia, too. And she hated them both. She hated them both utterly. And that was the difference between them. Maybe the griffons should win. They believed. And not a single one had died.

At least the Royal Guard had managed to set up a reliable smuggling route, or they would have run out of food long ago, something the griffons no doubt realized. So even that was in jeopardy, always changing, always trying to evade. Celestia kept her word on that, at least. Three fresh wagonloads of provisions stood outside, with their attendant crews: strong earth ponies to drive them, unicorns to buttress them with shielding spells, and pegasi to act as spotters. They’d head back soon enough, unless a couple had orders to remain behind and reinforce the local scouting efforts. Plus the two wounded ones that the town now had to care for.

Lucky’s eyes came back into focus, but she couldn’t find the griffon face among the trees anymore. And all she could think of was wrapping her magic tighter and tighter around his throat until—

“The individual soldiers are not our enemy,” Honeybee said again, her voice in a monotone. She couldn’t even fake it for the kids anymore.

They’d lost. No matter who won, they’d lost.

Dark brown. Lucky’s own coat was dark brown. She’d make a good night scout.


The sun rose before Lucky did. Long before. Something was different today.

Quiet. Nothing had woken her up. Dad, either. Normally, she’d fumble through a few isolated patches of rest after returning from a night scout mission, but no exploding shells had roused her. And there Dad lay on the couch—

Late for her shift! Lucky jolted out of bed and yanked her saddlebags off the table, shoved her last granola bar in her mouth, and dashed off to shield station nine with a throat full of apologies for whomever she was supposed to relieve.

Through the shield… soldiers, ranks and ranks of them! Earth ponies with long pikes, pegasi with maces and wing blades, unicorns with all manner of projectiles: shrapnel, dynamite, hunks of flaming pitch. All stood at attention, waiting for the signal from their commander, a midnight blue… alicorn! Princess Luna!

Lucky’s legs shook. Was it… was it over? No damage to the countryside, no casualties near the shield or by the forest. No, it hadn’t even started yet.

She trembled and sank to her knees. Much of the shield had fallen, just from unicorns losing their concentration at the spectacle. Even from the village, all eyes watched the Princess of the Night, out in the full sun of day. And she looked back. Not off in the distance, not over the town in general. She stared straight at Lucky Strike, and without speaking, her voice still rang in Lucky’s head: “I do this for you.”

No. No! Luna jerked her head toward the ground, and a mass of razor-sharp, icy shards poured from the sky, tearing into the treeline. And from the sound of it, scoring quite a few hits on the griffon soldiers concealed there.

Then the Equestrian Army started forward, brandishing their weapons, and Luna settled behind the front line. Lucky stood next to her, out… outside the shield. How did she get here? Had the Princess teleported her?

“Rest easy,” the Princess said. “This will end momentarily. Any griffons foolish enough to hold their ground will be cut down.” She stared straight ahead. Who was she talking to?

“They will pay for what they have done,” she continued. “No longer will we sit by and watch.”

Lucky glanced back toward town. Everypony, crowded behind the crumbling stone gate, the shield forgotten. All wearing eager smiles, some taking up their own weapons and charging out. Except for a few. Honeybee, Ginger, and Sapphire Facet still waited by the gate, not cowering behind it, but waiting, as if admiring a thunderstorm.

And out came Sugar Beet and Morning Bell, slowly, until they nuzzled up against Lucky’s side. “Please,” Lucky said, “stop this.”

“They have earned it.”

“Maybe. But I did, too. I’m worse than them.” Luna’s ear twitched, but she remained otherwise still as a statue. The army marched on, almost to the trees now. Lucky didn’t have much time. “We can’t change who we are,” she whispered. “I said that. But I should have said that we can’t change who we were. Not if we want to live with ourselves.”

Luna whirled about, her face only inches from Lucky’s. Tears streamed down the princess’s cheeks—Lucky had never seen her look anything but staid, regal… resolute. “And who are you?”

Lucky Strike coughed and gaped at her. “I-I…” She backed off from those eyes that might suck her into the night sky. Were Sugar and Bell still there? She… she couldn’t break off her gaze to see. “I don’t know. Somepony who wanted this and hates herself for it now.”

Sugar Beet, Morning Bell, still there. They huddled against her and stared up at her. When had she started crying? Standing there like a blubbering idiot. “Please stop this, Princess Luna. Make them go away, but don’t hurt them. If you do, I don’t think I’ll be somepony worth saving.”

She’d closed her eyes, but then she felt a hug. A big one around her neck, and a foal-sized one on each foreleg. “Then there is hope for you yet,” Luna whispered in her ear. “But it has to be your choice.”


Lucky Strike sat up in bed and shook. A rush of images flooded her mind: an ugly scar on Sapphire Facet’s shoulder, a leering griffon soldier in the distance, Honeybee trying to calm frightened children.

Quiet, though. Had she passed out? Was it over? Was she… dead?

She gasped and held a talon in front of her face. No, not Lucky Strike. Gisele. Her name was Gisele. But it had seemed so real.

She rolled out of bed and crawled across the floor, then peeked over the windowsill. No flat valley near a river, no timbered homes with thatched roofs, no forest looming nearby. Just a bunch of stucco houses on a rocky slope. Home.

Where did she put those stupid saddlebags? Probably under the bed. She reached out with her magic, but the bedskirt didn’t even budge. Of course, no magic! She’d just instinctively tried—

Down the stairs she dashed, and out the front door. Third house on the left. She ran up and pounded with the iron knocker. Maybe it wasn’t too late! Maybe she still had time!

“Hey!” she yelled toward one of the upstairs windows. A few pedestrians stopped and stared at her. “Hey, get out here! We have to go!”

A familiar face poked out and blinked at the view. “Greta!” Gisele called, but the little one still wore a frown, looking at Gisele as if through a fog. On a whim: “Sugar Beet!” And a shock of recognition jolted through her eyes. She soon came bounding out of the house.

“You remember where Gerhard—” that same frown returned on her cousin’s face “—Morning Bell lives?” Gisele asked. Greta nodded, but just stood there, rooted to the ground. So Gisele angled her head toward the base of the hill. “Well? Go get him! I’ll round up everyone else. We’ve got to go, or we’ll never make it in time!”

Greta’s eyes widened. She knew. Just old enough that she could start to figure some things out, but this one had sunk in pretty quickly. She nodded and hurried down the hill, leaving a small cloud of dust behind her. And Gisele moved on to the next house. She remembered some names, some appearances, but she didn’t know everyone in town. She’d have to try every house, every door, until she’d gotten enough of them. The children, every one of them. They’d all been in Mossy Glen.

Together, they could stop this from happening.


Gisele hushed all the children following her and peered over a boulder, right where the mountain pass opened up into the valley. There, in the distance, a pearly shield covered a small town, and two armies, massed against each other. None of them watching the pass anymore. No need.

Around the town, ponies, but… carrying mostly steel shields. Few weapons, and even those were designed to prevent charges, like a squad of earth ponies with pikes braced in the dirt. Pegasi with nets and bolas, unicorns with… nothing. All defensive measures. On the other side, griffons in full armor with wicked lances and arbalests, long sabers, cannons.

She searched the crowd of them, but she couldn’t make out individuals under those helmets, most with the face guards down. If she could find that one, whom she’d seen… however long ago it was. The face in the trees, smirking, glad of the ponies dying inside, that she’d bash in, over and over again with Dad’s—with Sapphire Facet’s sledge, if she could. But she never found him. Probably for the best, or it might have undone everything that had happened. The bile rose in her throat, but she fought it down. She had to, for them, the children. They hadn’t seen everything she had.

In the open space between the forces, two smaller groups stood, within shouting distance of each other. On one side, three griffons, and on the other, a snow-white alicorn, by herself. None of them looked happy.

“C’mon,” Gisele said in a harsh whisper. “No matter what happens, stay by me and follow my lead.”

The griffons had already walked halfway back to their line, and by the time Gisele and the other children had run out into the field, none of them could stop her. None of them except the alicorn—Princess Celestia, presumably, though Gisele had never met her—who only stood and watched, a strange smile on her face. Gisele had only seen its kind once before, a few weeks back, when she’d told Dad she wanted to be a night scout, and he’d… stood up straighter at the compliment while still flinching as if stabbed, but no, no! Not her father, not weeks ago. Last night, a dream.

As they’d discussed on the way, all the children with Gisele spread out, forming a line between the armies. Half faced the pony settlement, the other half, the griffons. Gisele herself stared at the three griffon leaders, though she did sneak a look over her shoulder at the old stone gate. Where was Sapphire Facet? Where was Aunt Ginger, Honeybee?

She didn’t have time to search for them.

Those three griffons stared at her like she had multiple heads growing from her neck. “We won’t let you go through with this!” Gisele shouted. “If you’re going to kill each other, you’ll have to go through us.”

Princess Celestia knelt in the grass.

And the griffon in the center—he finally found his voice. “Stop this immediately!” He pointed a wing at her and beckoned fiercely with a claw. “I don’t know who put you up to this, but it ends here!”

“I put myself up to this!” she shot back. “We’ve seen what happens here, all of us—” she flicked a foreleg down the queue of children “—and we can keep it from happening.”

She shook her head, like… like a memory was trying to claw its way out. “We had a vision. We won’t let it come true.”

“You come over here right now, and we’ll discuss this when we get home!”

Home…? She stared at the ground, then glanced back at the village again. Home…

The griffon’s voice rose to a shriek. “Gisele Goldschmidt, you will obey me, this instant!”

She flexed a talon in front of her face. Gisele.

“My name is Lucky Strike,” she mumbled. The children all watched her, waited. Waited for her to do something. “My father is Sapphire Facet. He’s a jeweler in town. I got my cutie mark while helping him.” She brushed her talon over the brown fur near her rump. “I—I lived as one of them. They’re good people. They don’t deserve this.”

“What’s goin’ on?” Sugar Beet—Greta whispered. “What are they sayin’?”

Another of the three griffons stepped out, a female in a very fancy uniform. “Greta? Please. Please come home.”

Greta’s eyes glimmered. “She doesn’t mean it, does she, Lucky? I-I don’t know…”

“Greta Kaufmann! Please!” the lady griffon said.

“She’s Sugar Beet!” Gisele snapped. Then she hugged Gerhard to her. “M-Morning… Morning Bell.”

And of course the third griffon spoke up. “No. Gerhard Lehrer.” She reached a claw out. “Please, Gerhard. Come with me. I won’t be mad—I promise.”

Goldschmidt. Her father, a jeweler. Kaufmann—Sugar’s mom ran the market. And Lehrer. Bell’s mother, the teacher. The meanings, in their language, matched. Of course they did. She’d made it up. She’d made it all up, hadn’t she?

But all of them? Together? No, it meant something! Where was Princess Luna?

“Look at yourself,” her… her father said. Brown fur, white feathers. What’d even made her think she could levitate those saddlebags when she first awoke? She didn’t have a horn.

“It doesn’t matter. We’re not moving.” The griffons wouldn’t dare come nearer. Not with the threat of those ponies so close, who could rush in and snatch their children away. And yet the ponies wouldn’t do that. As sure as she stood there on solid ground, she knew it. That was why she wouldn’t let the griffon army endanger the ponies.

Lucky… Gisele. Gisele locked eyes with Celestia. The Princess bowed her head and opened her mouth to say something, but she remained silent.

“What would you have us do, then, Princess?” Ambassador Goldschmidt barked. “Surrender?”

And finally the alicorn spoke, her voice like a cool stream. “Haven’t you learned anything from this? We do not want your surrender. We want you to leave us in peace.”

The ambassador looked to his colleagues, who did little more than shrug.

“Very well, but… how have you done this?” Ambassador Goldschmidt said, shaking his head. He slouched, all his bluster and pomposity gone.

“I told you. I have my sister back.”

He narrowed his eyes at her, but in the end, he could only stalk off, back to his army, back to his border, none the wiser. “Come,” he said over his shoulder.

Lucky Str—Gisele looked to Celestia. What had she meant about Luna? It… it didn’t matter, though. Luna had said that it had to be her choice. And she’d made it. So if Celestia felt the ponies were safe and trusted him to honor his word…

The Princess nodded, but she wouldn’t look Gisele in the eye this time. Relieved. She must be relieved that everything had worked out for the best. Gisele wouldn’t let Luna down.

And she fell into step behind her father. The griffon children all followed.

Comments ( 72 )

Interesting, a low as heck move, but effective none the less.

So Luna basically brainwashed griffon children into acting as human shields and betray their own country. Something tells me that shit would not fly at the Geneva conventions. Hell, if anything this gives the griffions a far better casus belli than before if/when they discover the truth.

Neat story, but what exactly happened here? Did Luna just have some griffons dream of being a pony in the besieged village?

Wroth #4 · Sep 10th, 2017 · · 1 ·

8419057
Ah.. Effective, at least until that sort of technique comes out that one is quite willing to use children as bait in wars. Nobody wants to be friends with the Child Killers.

8419077
The griffon children had a dream where they were ponies in the town that was about to be invaded (the fighting hadn't started yet). They thought it was a vision they all had, but it was actually a dream given to them by Luna. She essentially tricked a bunch of children into acting as a human shield. Celestia knows about it as since she can't look the MC in the eye after its done.

8419060
Kinda, yeah. Fine shade of meaning, but it's more that she's making the children see the ponies's side and thus humanize (as it were) the enemy. Of course, then the question becomes whether Luna's creating an accurate portrayal of how griffons view ponies. But Lucky didn't have any dissonance over that once she regained her senses. There are a lot of potential ways to read into it.

8419096

Capturing the enemy 's children, indoctrinating them to support your side, using them as hostages ready to take their own lives against their families...
Can only be read as utterly despicable. Luna's use of her dreamwalking abilities to accomplish said effects makes the whole thing even more horrific. :pinkiesick:
Specially when adding the obvious lack of remorse of both her and Celestia regarding such tactics.

iisaw #8 · Sep 10th, 2017 · · 3 ·

Re: comments,
Has empathy become so foreign a concept that it looks like brainwashing to people?

Wroth #9 · Sep 10th, 2017 · · 1 ·

8419126
Have you ever pushed dreams onto people so that kids are willing to stand out in the middle of a battlefield, while believing they are other people?

I'm not so sure that's empathy when you aren't even able to tell you aren't the same person you are.

8419126

We could ask you the same question.

Empathy: Capacity to understand or feel what another person is experiencing from within the other person's frame of reference.
Brainwashing: Changing someone's beliefs or attitudes using intense teaching and/or indoctrination.

8419096
Well, the problem is she chose to deliberately target the children without even trying with the adults in the town or the soldiers in the army. That implies that the children being a shield was the main objective and the empathy was just an added bonus. Of course you could argue whether or not if it's actually empathy they're feeling and not just them projecting a life that wasn't actually real. Children are extremely easy to manipulate after all. The fact they're still calling each other by their pony names shows there is still some dissociation.

Lastly there is obviously going to be major bias on Celestia and Luna's part when it comes to this. Accurate portrayal aside, there is absolutely no attempt on the ponies part to emphasize with the griffions, it's purely onesided. It's forcing a resolution in their favor instead of compromising and making a deal. The griffons couldn't win there, either they attack and kill there own people, or pull back and lose something they obviously needed if they were willing to fight for it.

8419163
Except that it was established early on that it wasn't something the griffons actually needed. They never made that case, and had it been true, it would have been a more effective appeal to Celestia. Other than that, it's a fair interpretation. Not the only one, but a fair one.


8419123
Again, a fair interpretation, though not the only one. I wouldn't personally characterize them as hostages, however, since the ponies didn't have them in physical custody and were making no move to do so.

8419213

Except that it was established early on that it wasn't something the griffons actually needed

It sounds like it was land taken from them through war, and then later colonized in an effort to keep it away from them.

I wouldn't personally characterize them as hostages, however, since the ponies didn't have them in physical custody and were making no move to do so.

Here's one definition for Hostage

one that is involuntarily controlled by an outside influence

They were basically being pushed into this by Luna and couldn't even remember that they weren't ponies. They were mentally confused by an outside party.

8419213
I suppose, doesn't change the fact that the griffons owned the land originally and they simply wanted to use it as additional hunting ground. They were more than willing to pay compensation and it was Celestia that flatly refused to negotiate. All in the name of something as absurd as a nation wide wildlife sanctuary. She might as well of said "Fuck you, you're carnivores." Really, until the whole war thing came up, Celestia struck me as being the unreasonable one in that conversation.

8419163

If anything Luna´s actions, far for encourage any sort of actual sympathy or understanding between the two races, will produce massive horror and hatred. I can imagine entire generations of gryphons warning about the "witch pony queen of dreams" possessing and enchanting children against their parents.

8419261
It is the sort of thing that will make people go "Hmm.. How can we disconnect ourselves or her from the dream realm"

Yeah, that's.... that's gonna be controversial. Well written, but controversy nonetheless.

8419243 On the other hand, we've seen that animals in Equestria are at least somewhat sapient.

That makes the griffins' "hunting ground" sound really different, and Celestia's "nationwide wildlife sanctuary" sound like no more than what's ethically required.

8419998
It's a rabbit preserve.
And they get killed and eaten by everything else in the preserve so really nothings changed.
If anything Gryphons would kill cleaner and quicker then a predatory animal would.

8420037 The rabbits would probably say that removing one predator is still a good thing.

And now that you've raised the question... given Equestria's highly-managed ecosystem outside the Everfree, can we really be sure how much predation goes on in the first place?

So; you can have
1) A pitched battle, dozens or hundreds on each side maimed or killed. Plenty of orphans to go around
Or
2) Luna meddles in some griffins kids dreams, and everybody lives.

Hmmm...tough choice.

8420043
Most carnivorous species have to eat meat, plants can't substitute their diet like an omnivore.
And even then, it's a rabbit. Partial sapience or not, it's a species that reproduces at such a high rate solely to remove the numbers lost from predation.
Without that they'll either overpopulate or remove to much food from their level of the ecosystem.
Humans tried this with wolves.
Deer started starving to death and killing off the plants they eat because there were simply to many of them.

Haven't read if yet, but the first thing that comes to mind is: the griffons don't even have a government. How can they demand anything, when they make the choice in abject poverty and anarchy?

8420619 I know, it doesn't even say 'Alt Universe', so we must assume this is in the canon world.

Plus, we don't see the griffons ever hunting anything... hell, they seem to subsist on acorn scones for all we know!

They're also very few in number relative to the ponies and lack most of the magic ponies have save for cloudwalking. It would hardly be a war at all.

8420546 Oh I know all about deer. Canada geese too. I'm in NJ. The damned things are everywhere. And hunting is hard because the state's so densely populated. Cars are the biggest predators they have. :P

That said, it's very clear that the griffons are omnivores. Gilda eats apples and cake, and there's a traditional griffon scone recipe that includes acorns.

They probably have a digestive system similar to bears, raccoons, and humans.

The ambassador pushed himself from the table and rose. “What can one more alicorn do?

Celestia couldn't take it anymore, she fell to the floor in a gut-busting guffaw. After several minutes, she managed to control her tears of mirth and address the inbred beakies... (dang beakies and their backwards ways...), "Why would we alicorns even fight? We have THOUSANDS of unicorns who could use telekinesis to freeze your warriors' wings midflight and rip out their feathers! Meanwhile, our pegasi would send tornadoes and lightning through your ranks! Earth ponies would bombard you air and ground with massive boulders! And that's only if any of you feathered fools make it through our FIRST line... Ohhhhh Discooooord!"

Discord pops in, "You bellowed, Sun Butt?"

Celestia fluttered her eyelashes, "Indeed. I just wanted to mention that these fine griffons may have declared their desire to roast Fluttershy alive."

It was noted in the subsequent history books that it was on this day the griffon race became extinct.

:trollestia:

8419243 Oh to hell with the griffons! Them dang beakies ain't been no good fer nuthin' far's ah kin recall! An' when ya least 'spect it, they go 'round abductin' and eatin' yer youngins fer their Grogar worship! Yep, the only good beaky's a dead beaky, ah tells ya! We should prolly build camps... that there pony with the little black mustache a-shoutin' on da podium says it'd be a good idea for the fatherland...

:trollestia:

8419998 It's harder to justify hunting when the prey can beg for their lives.

Unless you just don't care. Sociopathy for the win! :pinkiecrazy:

8419083 But children make the best bait! It's why political parties ALWAYS say, "THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!" whenever they want to throw a ton of money away or restrict liberty these days! They know the stupid suckers will buy it! yep, all you have to do is attach a picture of some wide-eyed Woobie victim to your cause and BOOM! Instant victory!

Oh yes, I know how the mind games work.

It always fails on me because I hate kids. :trixieshiftright:

Nice to see this on Fimfiction. As in the Writeoff, it's a great "princesses being awesome" story that doesn't fall into the usual trap of violent spectacle. Thank you for bringing it here.

An amazing story. Half way through, i thought 'this is great, but the intro portion kind of takes away from the feeling of wartime desolation' , but then it all paid off. I'm still not sure if it would be better without it or not, but it's amazing how such a short story can work so well on two levels. From the kids' perspective, everyone learned a valuable lesson on the value of peace in the face of adversity, but from the adults perspective they will slowly realize what such a huge threat Luna really is. Much more refreshing than the 'fuck yeah equestria luna badass' tropes.

8419243
Yeah, really surprised Celestia is effectively trading pony lives for rabbit lives.

8419220

It sounds like it was land taken from them through war, and then later colonized in an effort to keep it away from them.

Sure, it could have happened that way, but even you're phrasing it as a supposition. It's not the only interpretation or even necessarily the most likely one.

They were basically being pushed into this by Luna and couldn't even remember that they weren't ponies. They were mentally confused by an outside party.

You could see it that way. But sometimes people dream that they're someone else. When Gisele awoke, she quickly realized it was a dream and would have dealt with it in that context.

Really, neither side is completely in the right, which is often how life works.

8419243

I suppose, doesn't change the fact that the griffons owned the land originally and they simply wanted to use it as additional hunting ground.

It sounds like you're saying the griffons had some sort of right to it. Maybe they do. Both sides of it have happened in the real world to disastrous consequences. Is it reasonable to threaten war over what even they refer to as a luxury item and not a necessity, though?

8420546
I think you're getting way down in the weeds to assume Equestria has all these same ecological concerns that we do. In the show, wildlife just gets along fine, and unless it's the point of the story, it's going off on a tangent to even deal with that stuff. You have to draw the line somewhere, and saying, "Hey, wildlife management isn't a thing" is a valid stance for a story to take. If you have a lot of thoughts about how the ecology works, why not write a story about it? Could be interesting.

8420728
That'd be a strange jumping-off point to declare it an AU, but in any case, the only time reference is that this occurs sometime after Luna's return from exile, not necessarily during the time frame we see in Griffonstone. Or that those are the only griffons.

8421786
The griffons did jump the gun when it came to threatening war, however, Celestia was also a part of the problem. The griffons were willing to offer plenty of compensation for mere use of the land, not ownership. And it was Celestia that repeatedly refused to compromise or even negotiate with them on the matter. You can't say that Celestia was entirely blameless in that situation.

8421786

You could see it that way. But sometimes people dream that they're someone else. When Gisele awoke, she quickly realized it was a dream and would have dealt with it in that context.

If one still calls themselves a dream name, long after they've reached the battlefield. That's not a very normal dream in context.

8421786
On the point of the dream, it's still mind magic.
Luna effectively manipulated Children as a means of war. Add to the fact the supposed dangers of such magic said in canon and the blatant evil or malignant nature of the act, I'd say Celestia and Luna are going to have a lot of problems the next time they need help from another nation.

I wpuld write the story, but I'm not particularly skilled and lack, well, drive for it. It'd turn into a mess and at this point in time research alone would eat up most of my free time.

8421786 Rarity does say rather specifically "A griffon! How rare!" in "Griffon the Brushoff". That DOES speak rather specifically to how common they are in Equestria. And then given that the Griffon Kingdom is rather a small place... it seems a much larger leap of logic to suddenly assume they have the numbers to be a threat to the ponies. It'd be the similar to declaring a giant army of minotaurs sweeping over the entire country to be consistent with canon, given we have seen exactly one minotaur and there is no suggestion that a minotaur nation exists at all.

And, like I said, there is the issue with the griffons obviously being omnivores. The conflict simply doesn't feel natural to the world as presented in the show when all details given thus far are taken into consideration. This idea would work better as an alt universe, with some more establishment of the historical and geopolitical differences to set it apart.

8422333

I'd say Celestia and Luna are going to have a lot of problems the next time they need help from another nation.

What other nation would they even need help from? Given the magical powers the ponies possess, if any nation manages to overcome them, the rest are screwed by default. It'd be like the USA calling for help from Ethiopia to stop an invasion by the Borg. It's THAT level of skewed.

I suppose you could say the dragons miiiiiight be helpful... but that assumes the dragons really are magically-resistant and the attackers don't use magic and somehow defeat the ponies regardless (perhaps if the invaders are also magically-immune). But, then we must ask ourselves if the dragons would withstand the non-magical weaponry these mysterious invaders would be using, or would even help the ponies under any circumstances.

It's asking a LOT of questions with very nebulous and rarified information from which to draw any conclusions.

But in any basic circumstance, it's almost certain that a foe capable of defeating Equestria would have little to fear from the world's other inhabitants. For instance: Tirek. He basically became more powerful than Discord and larger than most of the dragons. What the heck could have stopped him at that point other than the Deus Ex Machina solution we got?

8422864
Compitent military planning by a supposed century old ruler?
I mean, canonicly the guard are worthless against even a marginaly organized threat, and Celestia has such little control of her own magic she can't blast Chrysalis for fear of people more then thirty feet away being hurt.
I'd argue that without a moral high ground for the elements/rainbow power to work, they don't stand a chance against any military force.
They rely on deus ex machina's for everything, so a situation where they can't?
That'd be a death sentence.

8422989 Mmm-hmm... and compared to that, what could the other races offer in the least? They don't even have any Deus Ex Machinas to help them. Against NMM, Discord, Tirek, Sombra... what hope would any of the other species have? From what we have seen of them, they possess nothing that could even touch any of those 4 antagonists. And the changelings, when enemies, certainly had massive tactical advantages of their own. We now even see that they can assume forms far larger and stronger than their natural bodies. This puts them in a position to fight even dragons with brute force, not to mention their other powers.

As I said, other than possibly dragons, the other sapient species would be utterly crushed by the super-powered foes the ponies have faced. Asking them for help would be a pointless act.

The only enemy the other species could have helped against would have been Starlight Glimmer, since her Cutie Mark stealing power would be useless against creatures without a Cutie Mark. But really, she wouldn't have fared well against an army of ponies either. As soon as she was exposed as a fraud, her control collapsed and she was forced to flee.

One could say that the biggest problem is that the writing for the show has thrown enemies so powerful into the mix that ONLY a Deus Ex or McGuffin solution can stop them. It's a common problem called 'Power Creep'.

Why is everybody just now debating whether or not non-consensual mind magic is alright or not? In the actual show it's already been established that in Equestria murder is most certainly way worse, with mind control not only being a crime punishable by little more than a slap on the wrist (or whatever the pony equivalent of a wrist is), but also that the spells which would allow any unicorn to control another sentient being are readily available in public libraries.

Anyway, this story was good. Yay.

8423056
Compitent milatary and proper armor/weapons?
Most of the threats Equestria's faced could be fought of or bartered with.
They just refuse to budge because conformity is a lynchpin of their society.
Since most other races don't depend on their magic for being a capable entity, they'd probably have carved Tirek up in a bloody conflict, if Celestia's lack luster planning hadn't screwed the world at go.
Chrysalis is cruel, power hungry and Tyranical, but potentially a powerful ally if you can/are willing to make an offer she couldn't refuse through compromise.
Discord honestly shouldn't have A) been stored in a public place, better to have him in a sealed, airless chamber lined with nullification runes and under a few feet of stone, and B) be made an ally through whats all but blackmail.
Nightmare moon/Luna is in the same level of "What where you thinking?!" As Discord.
Most of the other threats wouldn't exist for the elements not actually solving problems but rather playing the game of out of sight out of mind to start with so again, not being dependent on ancient artifacts and magic has probably made evry other race a tad bit more capable then the ponies are.

8423214
Correction, mind magic is excusable if you are A) a ruler, B) have a familial bond with the highest ranking official in the land(nepotism and corruption of justice), or C) the highest ranked official feels they can get a use out of you so they all but wipe the slate clean.

None of these are really respectable actions and honestly are why overall I find the main caste dissapointing nowadays. They get treated like saints even after they do some pretty hefty damage.

8423295 You remind me an awful lot of the sort of dimwits in the League of Nations who thought they could appease Adolf Hitler.

You know NOTHING of what lurks in the mind of tyrants.

8423762
So you are going to turn this into an insult game?
If so i'll not oblige.

And as for appeasement, how about the fact that Celestia and Luna by controling the sun and moln can all but destroy a civilization at will?
Would you not call Luna's manipulation of children a tyrants act, underhanded and without any form of nobility or honor?

Or the elements and the many other artifacts that they've hoarded despite having ko claim to them?

Or mayhaps Discord being given a second chance despite being through and theough a tyrant himself?

All of this is a case of pot meet kettle, not shining knight vs demon from hell.

8424456

Would you not call Luna's manipulation of children a tyrants act, underhanded and without any form of nobility or honor?

Sooooo, anyone who manipulates children for political gain is tyrannical then, ehhhhh? (waits for you to fall into the trap) :trollestia:

8424601
What trap?
Child soldiers' are a thing and I find any propaganda of any kind to both be the disgusting tripe of ignorant fools and two faced politicians
Being vague doesn't give you a point to make it means you want to be manipulative.
Kindly make your point or don't reply.

8424683 All advertising to children is manipulating them. In fact, even teaching them is manipulating them! There's no way around it! Everything instructional is a form of direct manipulation!

8425309
...you really missed the entire point.
Like, not even by a country mile. By an entire continent.
Teaching a child basic lifeskills isn't manipulations, it's a requirement for them to survive.
Using them to further a political agenda as combatants and sleeper agents, via what amounts to at the least a form of mind control, is so far from the basic requirements of child care and rearing that it falls into abuse and psychological warfare.
Honestly, if you subscribe to the mere concept of teaching a child how function, in any way is equivalent to tampering with their minds through magic or scientific/technological means you don't have a single foot to stand on and this discussion is done.

8425351 Nope! I'm right because all social programming is bad! Children should be free to do whatever they want because they are wiser than adults!

(wonders if you're getting the hint yet)

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