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Trust is everything to an immortal ruler. She must have the trust of her subjects. She must have servants in whom she can trust. Even the best of intentions can bring all of that to an end. There is a reason why Equestria has no queen—and no tyrant.
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This is a one-shot exploring why Celestia is a princess and not a queen. It's rather dense with political commentary and the psychological implications of an immortal ruler with power and control.
Hmmmm, I'm not the biggest on Political ideology, but some pieces of significance comes to mind.
Some say, "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely," and in alot of cases, this is true.
Depending on the interpretation here, the argument could be that Celestia has power, that is tempered by responsibility.
However, Control, on the other hoof, implies a greater degree of corruption, be it real or perceived. Celestia removes herself from the squabble, so that she doesn't get involved in the one side or the other debates that often happen in political movements. As such, she can act as an unofficial third party to advise any who come to her, 'off the record'.
In addition, control is usually the greater evil compared to power. Power itself can be feared, but control is almost always seen as a good thing. Though if anything, it corrupts far more easily than power alone. And in one who lives essentially forever? Nightmare Moon would be a party gimmick by comparison.
In a way, this fits Celestia's character better than the alternative Di-archy archetype would. Here, she is allowing her little ponies to grow, and to work about their world, as she watches and aids only as needed in extreme circumstances. Overall, this stance also keeps her from being Demonized and off their 'slander-radar' as much compared to those who would be in the political spotlight.
Then, there is the knowledge of the limits. Ageless she may be, but she's fallible. She has tons of experience, but as we saw in Canterlot Wedding, even she can be fooled...and defeated. So, it falls to her ponies to pick up the slack if she does, and do what she cannot. It's this, more than anything, and proves she is wise as well as thoughtful to their growth, much like a parent.
Well done good sir, well done indeed!
2330683
I think you captured and summarized Kindred's points quite deftly.
It's a fine line Celestia must forever walk. With all the power she commands, she can do so much to better Equestria. She can use that power through suggestion, advice, and leading by example. But if she takes control—as she could so easily do—then resentment is sure to blossom. And once resentment has taken root, it will grow and grow and will never be stamped out. It may take a long time before it becomes prominent, but she is immortal.
Eventually enough of the populous will be unhappy with her that she'd either need to step down at their request, or take complete control and become the tyrant they feared.
Celestia must be wise enough to reject or, as in this case, completely avoid any semblance of control. Thus she can continue to guide Equestria, and her power is not squandered. :)
2330797
Very good!! Now, I do have a question, and it pertains to the fic, but in a side-ways manner.
It would be fair to say, that the title of princess isn't as a true legal representative of Equestria, but is both ceremonial and pertains to how the alicorns (Blueblood via bloodline) maintain their given talent/sphere of influence for the betterment of pony-kind, yes?
Example: Celestia maintains the Sun, thus Princess.
Luna the same with the moon.
Cadence, being love, is a bit less influential all around, but was accepted in the Crystal Empire under different circumstance, so likely, this wouldn't apply the same way to her.
However, we then come to the most recent Alicorn of Equestria.
Twilight Sparkle.
In your model, where do you think Twilight would fit in? Celestia sees her as an equal, and thus she is a contemporary, and not a student. How then, does she add to Equestria as an Alicorn to earn the title? We know she is the Element of Magic, but that was the case before-hand and as such, is not a valid argument.
Is it her ability with Magic, mastery over the Arcane, that would be the service she brings to the table?
I'm curious about your perspective, I know Twili-corn is a hot topic among the fans, but I see it as an interesting dimension into Equestria as a whole. Please, tell me your thoughts.
I dislike the "power corrupts" idea
Tyrant and monarch are not synonyms
Whooooo, epicsauce. Insta-fav/like.
2330877 More than a few fics saw Twilight as Equestria's Archmage, essentially - as an Alicorn - Princess of Magic.
How her role works is problematical. Responsibilities, goals and so forth are, of course, undefined. She'd probably have to work it out as she goes.
Anyway, my two bits. We'll see.
2330877
I'm working on a historical piece with Star Swirl as the main character, but there is much interaction and backstory with Celestia and Luna (as well as other events and characters). I approach the "princess" title as one that is granted by the people in two ways. The first alicorns, Celestia and Luna (in my headcanon and the Star Swirl proto-story), were granted the title and the power at the same time for their part in defeating Discord.
As an alicorn (from birth or by magic, as with Twilight), Cadence automatically got the title, though she did not get power until she saved the Crystal Kingdom.
Twilight, alicornified, also gets the title by default and tradition. How and if she gains power to go with it... is yet to be seen.
2330968
I agree with you. The saying is too simple and doesn't take into consideration the distinction between power and control I sought to explore in this story. Here though, we have no real fear that Celestia will become corrupted. The corruption Kindred fears is the corruption of her reputation, and that can happen as soon as she controls the lives of others.
Any leader that exerts control will find some decisions please most people but angers some. It is in that way that a reputation can be lost.
It takes time for such resentment to spread, particularly for a truly good leader, but once immortality is added to the mix, any resentment will, in time, become a problem.
The funny thing is that I've been listening to an audiobook on the Constitutional Convention and just left off on putting together the executive branch. So unlike some this topic is fresh in my mind. So I read this story with all that at the forefront of my mind. I do see that Celestia would have to walk that fine line between wielding power and abusing it, and something that haunts her for a long time.
When I crafted my Equestriani government, the Concordiat, I had to keep that in mind Also Celestia has seen power corrupt in Nightmare Moon and Discord. She will try to be the leader that Equestria needs, even if she is infallible.
I do have to ask, what brought this story on?
2331289
I was editing the last chapter of one of my other stories, Rainbow Typhoon, yesterday and my mind wandered to Celestia. I imagined her having to avoid the appearance of control to prevent resentment from forming—and building over the centuries. I wrote the first sentence of this story as a note, paused, then added a quote to the front of it... And just kept writing. :)
2331317
Well for something that came out due to a whim you did damn good. And this has to be the first time I've seen the idea of a democratic republic Equestria being the government while Celestia is in power. It does give me something to think about while I continue to put together my Concordiat, especially in regards to the Office of the First Diarch.
2331400 It parallels the English Constitutional Monarchy in many ways, based upon what was written. The Monarch is usually hands (or hooves) off until a deadlock comes, and that's the extent of it.
I may have missed a point or two, but that's the essentials, as I see it.
2331453
Now you got me to think about it, you're correct about that.
2331467 I am? How'd that happen? That's got to stop.
2331478
Yes you are, mostly. I ain't a Brit so what I know comes from Wikipedia, and that I think it was a somewhat recent thing that the monarch has been hands off.
2330389
2330683
2330797
Reading these comments made me think of this scene from "Schindler's List."
Also, someone needs to make a one-shot of this scene between Celestia and Blueblood, with Blueblood changing for the better at the end.
Maybe it could take place in the aftermath of the Grand Galloping Gala?
After all, we do see him next to Rarity in "Sweet and Elite," in the airship scene.
Maybe it could be some kind of "redemption" from the way he is usually portrayed in fanfics.
2331040 I think it's implied she has at least some power through Celestia's will and her defeat of Discord and Nightmare Moon with the other Element Bearers. But since every season has begun with the defeat of an ancient enemy of Equestria thus far, the writers have plenty of options.
2334386
Yes, she has lots of power, as Kindred points out in the story. Celestia can "change the face of Equestria with a word" at the very least. :)
The point of the story isn't about having or using power (magical, political, what-have-you), it's about not controlling her subjects. She can't be Equestria's mommy, or resentment will take root.
I know I marked this story complete, but maybe I should add another chapter. Perhaps Kindred's second conversation with her granddaughter. It would give her granddaughter a chance to show she had understood what Kindred was trying to tell her. At the same time, Kindred can probe the waters to see if she'd like to become Kindred's apprentice and one day step into her horseshoes and be Celestia's advisor.
I'd love to explore what being her advisor really means and how being immortal affects Celestia's memory and thought processes. I'm sure it would change how she thinks and what she focuses on. She would need somepony to bridge the gap between immortal thinking and mortal thinking—to ground her in reality when her longevity has taught her to think in different timescales. I think it would be a fascinating relationship. Hmmmm......
Where's my pencil?
2334533 when I said "she" I was talking about Twilight Sparkle
Which speaks volumes about her influence/power level if a simple pronoun vaguery can cause you to confuse her with her mentor.
As to a second chapter, I think a follow up story would be a better plan.
2347340
Well, that makes so much more sense. :)
As a princess, Twilight now has influence with those that attribute status to her new title. Her vast literary knowledge allows her to make more informed decisions. Her wide range of magical ability grants her more options to act than your average pony. Yes, she has power.
Twilight doesn't have control though—not in any permanent capacity. She can request, she can suggest, she can even lead—but she doesn't order. Through friendship, her requests hold more weight, but that weight is limited. Resentment is unlikely to form so long as she keeps such requests within the bounds of friendship.
If she gains a kingdom of her own, and if she will now live forever like Celestia (or even just really, really long), I only hope Celestia warns her about how dangerous resentment can be to an immortal leader.
Resentment in a population never goes away completely. It is far more likely to increase—in time.
And all this wonderful discussion has made me want to continue this story with Kindred's granddaughter as the main character—the new advisor to princess Celestia.
Hmm... so something is working in the background with Path. Well then I look forward seeing where you will take this.
2347756 Twilight gives orders quite well when the situation calls for it, something we see as early as Swarm of the Century and Winter Wrap Up. I'm sure she'll grow into the role quite well given time. She loves to organize and certainly has a bossy streak
As for building up resentment, I'm sure Twilight will make some enemies in her time as Princess. It'll be interesting to see if/how the writers deal with this natural part of being a leader. Look at Barack Obama. Before he became president he was almost unilaterally loved by anyone even remotely Democrat. Now he's controversial even amongst his own party and has gone back on several of his old policy decisions that made him popular to begin with.
And as to you making a new story, it'd be cool if she was an adviser to one of the newer Princesses like Cadence or Twi, instead. Lots of tension there.
Nonsanity,
First of all, love what you've written here. Lots of promise if you do decide to expand this even further. But then again I'm a West Wing/political thriller junkie.
More to the point, and this is probably a bit presumptuous but I think that you know that you have more that you want to say on this. Everything about that second chapter hinting that there's more to come just bubbles with the ideas I suspect you to be turning over in your head even as I type this. I hope I'm not wrong, and that you decide to throw yourself into this because I'd love to see the results
More!
I do like the idea of this continuing.
This was a very interesting read. You've given me a lot to think about.
I'm now imagining the Senate's inability to get anything done as the cause of all of Equestria's problems.
Failure to authorize an intervention in the Crystal Empire allowed Sombra to take over. Luna's attempts to get restrictions on nighttime activities lifted were defeated by lobbyists and lead to Nightmare Moon. The Senate's failure to approve the Equine-Buffalo Treaty caused tensions to escalate in the west. The Senate cut funding to the Canterlot Statue Garden and the lack of maintenance allowed Discord to escape. The Intelligence Committee ignored the military's warnings about the Changleings and that, combined with a reduced military budget, allowed them to invade.
Huh, well I think that this is the first political commentary I've ever read.
No offense. But a deciding vote when the senate's vote is at a 50/50 deadlock is LOGICAL.
2639013
It is. But then, half the senate—and half the population if the senate is truly representative—will not be happy with her choice. That's the point of the discussion. Over time, that sort of resentment could easily grow to threaten Celestia's rule, even if only over centuries. For this reason, I suggest that she chooses to only exert her influence through more subtle ways.
2639013 Most such governing bodies have a built-in tiebreaker, or are designed never to be split evenly—such as having an odd number of members. But there are other ways action can be delayed, deflected or dropped completely. Not all of which are as blatant and obvious as the filibustering you can see used in the US Senate. Veto power is also far more powerful than a mere tie-breaking vote. It can completely reverse the wishes of the majority. How all this comes together in the imaginary politics of Equestria is just a thought experiment, but when combined with the long-term plans of an immortal—a very interesting thought experiment indeed. :)
Here's another reminder to write more ;)
Love your stuff and I'm in the mood for a good political piece!
8554377
I’ve been using this year’s NaNoWriMo event to spur me into writing more, with the goal of finishing a story. It’s at 39,000 words, so a finished product can’t be TOO far off... :)
It’s not a continuation of this story, but thanks for reminding me of this one. That alone has put the spark of another idea in my head on where to take this, but... one story at a time or I’ll never get any done! :)
Alas.
Very clever!