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Admiral Biscuit
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Admiral Biscuit
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Why hasn't this been commented on before? It's really good! Think I've got a new headcanon here.
2955855
When I saw her with the balloon the second time in "Spike at your Service," I thought what if it was actually her balloon all along? Then in the finale, Fluttershy was paying Cherry for the balloon ride back to Canterlot, so maybe the writers are thinking like me (I'm not sure if that's good or bad.
A nice, well-written character piece. Cherry Berry needs more love from the fandom.
tinyurl.com/mbho6go
(I can probably find some other groups to add it to as well.)
Okay, this was a very good one.
I really like the plot for this. It was simple, but very effective. I like how it takes just the wonderment of flying and it just runs with it and it makes you feel for this character. It makes you cheer when she finally achieves this thing that she had spent months to accomplish. That I related to, so I liked that.
I like the thought process for the character. She describes her failure and her determination to see pass those failures and work towards her goal. I would have loved to see more of the journey. I would have love to see more of how she progress to come to this moment. What she tried, what she didn't tried that she later thought up and how she kept going. I would have liked to see more of that.
I didn't like the fact that a lot of ponies thought she was crazy. I know there are always going to be naysayers. (No pun intended), but I didn't feel like it was justified. I mean, in the scene where she is flying, two Pegasi actually help her out. That makes me question this a little, but I'll admit that's nitpicking.
A cute, fun little story. It had a fun set up, a relatable character, and it was just good spirited and enjoyable. I'm glad I read it and I hope to read more from you in the future. Take care.
3814526
There's another look in a entry I wrote for The Album titled Aviatrix. There's also another story I'm working on in which her balloon-making and experimentations factor into the background of the story, and since she hangs out with a group of pegasi and earth ponies (and maybe a token unicorn), there'll be perspective from all of them.
I think they would, though. The ponies don't seem to adapt well to new things, and I think the concept of an earth pony conveyance to go into the sky would seem weird to them. Especially in a small town like Ponyville. I've certainly accused some of my friends of crazy ideas before--at least until I see them work (like my buddy's eyeball-engineered four-link suspension on his off-road truck).
3846365 Ah, I will check it out.
So if this takes place in the same universe as Onto the Pony Planet how much do you think Cherry Berry will flip out when she finds out about airplanes?
4047163
I think she'd be amazed and try to get herself a plane ride as soon as possible. She might try to reverse-engineer the design. Even if powered flight is beyond pony tech, the terrain around Ponyville lends itself to glider flight.
4047179
Yup. I suppose it might be possible to adapt the controls on an airplane so that an earth pony could use it.
4047218
Given their hoof dexterity, and the way that they can sit on their butts, it probably wouldn't be that hard to adapt an airplane so that a pony could fly it, especially an older plane (say, a forgiving biplane).
iambrony.steeph.tp-radio.de/mlp/gif/157535__UNOPT__.gif
Probably the biggest concern would be making all the toggles and buttons bigger.
4047235
babyproofingyourmarriage.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Airplane-Controls.jpg
More modern planes can get pretty complicated. A lot of those are dials, but a fair number are fiddly little switches.
4047235
I wonder if something like this wouldn't make more sense.
4047252
For a real quadruped, a prone piloting probably would; as depicted in the show, there's probably no real advantage. If and when the ponies develop space flight, they probably would go with prone.
As to the flight controls, even my brothers 70s-era Piper is mostly simple enough that the controls could be converted to hoof-operation, and I was thinking a single-engined aircraft of an even earlier vintage. The other option would be a fly-by-wire aircraft, in which case the controls could be really anything the ponies wanted.
4047359
From a cultural standpoint the prone pilot style would make more sense. To the ponies that is probably "how you are supposed to fly" because that is the way the pegasi do it. To them it would feel more correct, regardless of how practical it is.
4048161
That actually makes a lot of sense. It would fit in with both their observations of flight, anypony's natural body pose when 'going forward,' and their probable desire to always do things the 'traditional' way.
Wasn't the Wright Flyer operated from a prone position?
(It's probably contradicted by how the CMC are operating the parade float, but then the animators don't put nearly as much thought into little details like that.)
4048245
The Wright Flyer was operated from a prone position.
I feel like many people on this site ignore the role that culture plays in determining how we look at the world.
4048276
I agree. Heck, I feel bad whenever I missed an opportunity, or learned something too late.
4048161 With respect, I'd say that the cultural aspect might already be decided- we see that they do indeed use chairs in some situations (park benches too, for Lyra!), and I can think of a practical reason or two for an upright seating position to be used. It'd be easier to sit and get up, from how we see them work on the show, and provides more head mobility for looking about, as well as a wider range of motion for limbs, and allows for tighter seating arrangements. For all that, though, I do agree that a prone position would not be nearly uncomfortable for a quadruped as for a biped.
How much time do you spend on polishing your prose? I really enjoy the smoothness and harmony of it as you switch between presenting thoughts and describing actions. It's wonderful. And I love the exploration of translating the IDEA of flight to the mechanics of it here without bogging down in technical details- to me, that showcases real skill, for you've struck a very nice balance between the two.
Also, huge thumbs up for including the first stanzas of High Flight- it fits so well with the tone of the entire piece!
4430624
I wasn't talking at all about practicality, rather how ponies might perceive flying. We see pegasi flying in the prone position, so it seems natural to me that other ponies would build flying machines controlled from the prone position simply because that is how they think of flying, regardless of the practicality.
4430879 Perhaps. But all I'm saying is that, if other conveyances are operated from an upright position, it's quite plausible that convention would be carried over as well.
For example, birds, bats, flying squirrels, and insects all fly in a "prone" position, but the convention didn't last beyond some early experimentation (or particular design necessities, like Rutan's Voyager) because it was impractical in other regards.
Keep in mind that the Wright Flyer relied on weight shift and wing warping for flight control, which were inadaptable to larger, more durable designs. The prone position limited mobility and the amount of force that could be exerted, very important in craft without boosted controls. That's why I discussed practicality- there were a number of reasons the convention evolved.
I don't mean to be dismissive concerning what you say, but to provide a counterpoint. It's an interesting topic of discussion.
4430985
Of course, the flipside of the coin is that we're bipedal, and ponies aren't.
Pinkie's pedal powered flier was operated from a prone position, with a set of pedals for each pair of legs, while Cherry's helicopter was operated from a standing position.
Of course, the animators are somewhat inconsistent on bone, joint, and muscle structure, so it's hard to make any absolute conclusions, since they could all be contradicted by a screenshot (seriously, in one episode the way one angry fist-shaking pony is drawn, it appears she hasn't got any bones in her forelegs).
I suspect that if pony aircraft were to be realistically designed, they would most likely be operated from a prone position, with some controls designed to be used by mouth. A more complex aircraft may very well require one or both of the pilots to be unicorns, just to control all the buttons.
But, if Octavia can play the cello from a standing position--with her hooves, no less--there's no reason to reject a pony aircraft which is operated in a seated style, IMHO.
4430624
I wrote another, similar piece for a collab--Aviatrix (also featuring Cherry Berry).
The only other two stories I've read that have significant aviation portions are Arrow 18 Mission Logs, and Pilot's Story. I think that some of Admiral Tigerclaw's other stories have flight portions, and I think that totallynotabrony has a story or two about aviation as well.
There are a couple of sections of Celestia Sleeps In that had airplanes or helicopters--a Beechcraft twin and a Coast Guard Dauphin figured into the plot. I got a pilot to help me with those, so hopefully I didn't screw up too badly.
4433206 Pilot's Story is what kicked my ideas from "that would be cool" to "can I write a story from a different perspective?" One that few people think about- the decision-making process, risk management, and how easy it is to let your judgement get clouded by other factors.
An excellent story, one I can't say enough positive things about, that has a significant aviation portion is Flight 19, started by Golden Arbiter and now maintained/extended by DMDash
4431236 All good points. I apologize for starting up a debate concerning an old, old comment; it wasn't very productive.
4433437
One of my more esoteric interests is reading things like NTSB accident reports (across all modes; I don't limit myself). The hows and whys of accidents are sometimes more interesting than the accident itself, because there's almost always a lesson that can be taken away from it. You may notice a number of stories (like this one) that take something we've seen in canon, and rather than ask the typical 'what happened next?' I go with the 'what happened before?'
That's come across my radar screen a time or two, but I never tagged it. Now I have, and I'll check it out when I get a chance.
No need to apologize; we're in a world of ever-changing canon, and I've always enjoyed well-reasoned speculative comments. I'm also always open to new ideas, and love learning things I didn't know.
How has no one called you out on the
songpoem yet?5158110
How do you mean?
5159209 High Flight. You even quote it at the bottom, how has no one commented on it yet?
Then again I didn't know about it until my band captain decided to put it in our competition routine.
Featherprop commented on it--although he's a pilot, so I'd expect him to know it.
In the other version of this story, Aviatrix, several people commented on it, so I made sure to put the credit in the story description here. I'm also surprised that I don't have a blog post with this one, especially since I had to do a fair bit of research on how hot-air balloons are constructed.
¡This is beautiful!
5182775
Thanks!
5183063
You are welcome.
4047179
I don't really think they're that far off from powered flight. They have external combustion (Friendship Express, Appleoosa railway) and internal combustion (SECS6000).
I do a lot of really in-depth analysis of what we're presented with in the show, and the result is a tech level a little bit beyond ours, with shortcomings mitigated by necessity.
5496374
I think they're close, and some of the delay is more social than technological. Cherry Berry's pedal-powered helicopter throws some of what's in this story off, but I wrote it long before that episode appeared.
I don't think magic-powered equipment is that efficient. If it was, most or all of their machines would run on it.
See, I think the opposite: I think they're about 150 years behind, on average. Some of it really depends on how you interpret specific items (like the game Button Mash was playing). Still, the rampant use of magic kind of makes it difficult to give a certain interpretation, and of course there's the fact that Ponyville is a small, out-of-the-way town, which might not be as advanced as Manehatten.
5509872
Right. They have shit that's years beyond us (their weather is manufactured in a factory = adaptive terraforming)
But other stuff they just don't need. They use trains to carry things superlong distances (100-1000mi) but they're able to somewhat easily carry heavy weights under a hundred miles. But they also have electricity, modern movie theaters, modern understanding of radiation / atomic structure...
5510059
And that's what makes it very tricky to determine an era, as compared to Earth. I've focused exclusively on their manufactured tech for establishing an era, while just ignoring magic for the purpose of establishing their tech level.
As evidence, their homes are primitive, they don't appear to have widespread use of electricity, they use wood stoves, there are no automobiles, roads aren't paved, steam locomotive technology is very early, their mill is a windmill.
On the other side, using magic, they can control the weather, heal a broken wing in days, teleport, control the sun, instantly grow plants, and so on.
I think, given a true alien culture, that the pace of development would not match ours at all. For the sake of MLP fanfiction, I think that their technological level depends, on a large part, what the author considers 'technology,' and how canon evidence is interpreted.
In a nutshell, I'm not going to disagree with your interpretation. It isn't the same as mine, but that's a question of how you and I see the evidence presented in the show; of how we interpret it. It's clearly not something the animators give a lot of thought to, which is why there's so much schitzo-tech in the show. What I handwave away as insignificant might be the foundation of your evidence, and vice versa. And honestly, unlike some, I'm fine with that. I can read a story, think that's not how I see it, and just enjoy the story regardless.
5510126
You're misunderstanding me. The Weather Factory is a factory. They have machines you dump some sort of liquid into and get out a cloud.
The SECS is an internal combustion vehicle / automobile.
Implied electricity in sleepover episode, their dam is a hydroelectric. Frequently there'll be the familiar 'cl-ick' and poof lights. Electric streetlights in Manehatten.
Also you can't really discount magic. After all, any sufficiently explained magic is indistinguishable from science / technology. So they're interchangeable.
We clearly see modern building techniques inside buildings, and in building such buildings. As far as the exteriors I can only say aesthetics. Who wouldn't want to live in Ponyville with its homey little hamlet feel?
5510126
I wouldn't imagine everypony would wear horseshoes. We know Pinkie does (in one episode she "claps" her hooves together and it produces a loud TNK TNK TNK) and Rainbow does (metal on metal noise when driving a nail into a board)
But most of the other ponies produce the familiar coconut noise of unshod hooves when clopping them together.
Paved roads aren't very good for horse hooves anyway. It makes 'em walk funny and fucks up their hooves if they're not wearing shoes.
5510398
I'd say it's less of a misunderstanding than a different perspective.
Agreed, and I'd also say that their snowflake making process is very similar to how coins are manufactured. Make a large proof, then shrink that down and make copies. Can't remember all the terms for the process, but I do agree that the weather factor is a clear indicator of some industrialization; the bolts of cloth Rarity has suggest that there are mills for fabric in Equestria, as well. However, I think it could be an example of early industrialization, rather than a common practice.
But it's not commonplace. The first 'automobile' dates to the 1600s, IIRC, and maybe earlier.
Yes, the dam could be a hydroelectric dam. The things on the 'pumphouse' look like electrically insulated towers . . . which don't have wires. One could say that the animators didn't draw them for convenience's sake, or that the actual wires are underground (because above ground wires would be a hazard to pegasi, after all), or that rather than produce power, the dam can receive it from unicorns. Any of those are valid explanations, IMHO.
Very true. Again, makes it quite difficult to pin down a specific tech level. Our cars are better than Flim and Flam's machine, but we can't control the weather.
I can't recall a specific instance showing the framing (besides the wood building that collapsed in the Mare Do Well episode), but I might be forgetting something. FWIW, iron-framed structures date to the late 1700s.
Yes, and that's another thing that throws off the timeline. If a 'proper' house is half-timbered, all houses would be built to look like that, regardless of the material. We certainly see that in modern architecture, especially with various renaissance themes that move in and out of popularity. where I went to college, for example, the streets were brick, and the buildings mostly had slate roofs, because the powers that be wanted a cohesive style to the whole campus.
I do think that the canon we see is open to a fair bit of interpretation, especially with the wild card of magic thrown in.
5510469
The dam looks like it has what Tesla's wireless electricity towers were supposed to have looked like.
Also modern sound systems, etc.
I lived in Salem for a time, and the whole "downtown" touristy area where the House of Seven Gables and etc are is all half-brick streets and wrought-iron signage.
As far as every other difference between Ponyville proper and everywhere else (Manehatten has asphalt-paved streets, Canterlot has brick streets, but Ponyville looks like Ye Elde Germanic towne) I refer you to the settlement in The Diamond Age where they raised sheep for wool, made blown glass and etc.
I'm a very convincing person. My perspective is that if you don't see things my way, you're not understanding me at some point down the road.
5510560
5510469
I come from the future, where we see this:
http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/mlp/images/7/71/Winter_lab_machinery_S5E5.png/revision/latest?cb=20150427170339
That scene pretty clearly illustrates that Equestrian understanding of industry may be a fair bit ahead of what we might've gleaned otherwise; they even seem to run on electricity, given the machines' behaviour when struck by the bottled lightning. Of course, we also have the lightbulbs and plasma globe in Slice of Life, but I guess those could also be explained by Time Turner being a mad scientist.
6501415
Two points:
The story was written before Twilight was an alicorn; canon has moved on in ways which I could not have anticipated.
I have always believed that weather was one of the earliest things that the ponies industrialized.
My own theories on pony technology do ignore some things which we've seen in canon. The script-writers and storyboarders aren't as stringent on what they show (and have demands placed upon them by their masters and by the age of their target audience). I generally put them at about 1870s era tech, although with allowances for different developmental priorities in either direction. In some ways that makes me an outlier (although one of my readers puts their tech level even lower). Obviously, magic is a huge wild card when it comes to pinning down tech. Just today, I read a short story where the 'smoke detectors' in the hotel were Breezies who stayed up all night watching for smoke and fire, and where turning on a light magically summoned a bunch of fireflies to a globe--while that story was a comedy, I think there is still a lesson to be learned about what we can't assume about their technology.
6503723 Ah, I saw the breezie one, too. What's more, I could see that happening almost regardless of their tech development—why bother with possibly-faulty sensors when a breezie or something similar could quickly dismiss false positives?
My point with my previous comment, which I apparently neglected to include (sorry! Real life is a pain sometimes), was that I feel Equestrian tech is so asymmetrical (and alien, even if Dale might not see it that way) that nearly any comparison with the real world is unlikely to be anywhere near accurate, and discussing it seriously will probably lead to an endless cycle of rebuttals.
Rather than obsess over details which the animators may have thrown in for convenience, I personally prefer that approach of Skywriter's to just make stuff up as you go—the crazier the better! Not that all pony tech would be so incomprehensible or unlikely, as your loving explorations of the more-mundane aspects of their society have illustrated, but you're right that magic effectively removes most of the constraints said aspects might place on their tech overall. I could imagine unicorns being fully capable of producing complex modern alloys, for example, while not having a clue about even simple polymers.. Or visiting other planets before a single manned orbital flight.
TL;DR: For the most part, technology is designed to fill a gap in the things we can do conveniently under our own power. For ponies, own power sets a completely different standard.
6504838 Which is precisely my point when discussing why horseless carriages aren't more prevalent. They don't really have a need for them outside tanks (Word of God states that tank mentions refer to the tracked machine of war) or heavy equipment (SECS).
IRL ponies are very strong for their stature, and 70 miles isn't out of the question for a one way trip, even under load. Equestrian ponies are even stronger (if they're anything like normal ponies, healthy weight is 660lbs and Pinkie scoops up five at arm's reach, which roughly multiplies the force needed by 6 (50lbs at arm's reach requires the effort of moving 300) so (660x2)+(660x3) without breaking a sweat). Own power goes further, so they don't have some of the tech we have.
However, I think both of you will rather enjoy Tales of Fillydelphia when I release a teaser sometime soon and the first six acts a little from now.
Thank god some people still understand the correct use of irregular verbs.
I faved this anyway because it's a wonderfull little story, but that use of 'lit' made my day. The regularizing of irregular verbs, so common these days, produces ugly, clumsy sentences.
Now to see if I can exacute a clean dismount from this hobbyhorse...
cdn.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/science/rocking-horse-trains-british-riders.jpeg
s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/b4/f8/46/b4f84626027cbec90ddce715e07f965a.jpg
Apparently not.
Er... oh. Oh ah.
If I'd known of this fic's existence, I would never have written the one I just did. Sorry.
6964041
No, it's cool!
First off, on a fan site, there's bound to be some cases where two people have the same idea. Since we haven't got professional editors (well, I don't, and I'd imagine you don't), such things aren't always brought to our attention until after the fact.
I've made my peace with that.
There was one story I never finished, because a conceptually similar story got featured around the same time I was working on it. I regret that now; even one of the pre-readers of the featured story said she'd have liked to see my take on the idea. But back then, I was worried that it would look like I was trying to ride the coat-tails of popularity.
I'm actually happy that you wrote your story. I enjoyed reading it, and it brought me back to the thoughts I'd had when I wrote mine, and the visions I had in my head when i thought of the poem and thought of Cherry casting off the surly bonds of Earth.
Look, some of the paths I tread have been well-trod, to put it mildly. I've got I don't know (seriously, I don't know) how many HiEs, and there's only so many ways you can twist that basic plot. And of course, if you've been around for any time at all, you've probably seen the dogpile of new-character fics after every episode. That's the nature of the beast, for better or worse.
I guess what I'm saying is write what you want to write. I loved the story. I loved your writing style, the way you mixed in serious and humorous elements, and I'm a sucker for stories about background ponies going on adventures.
Keep up the good work.
The first time I saw the balloons in the wine country, I always wanted to go up in one.
It's still on my bucket list, but close to the top.
9035575
I'm not sure how I'd feel about a balloon, to be honest. While I do like stories about flying and seeing the world from above, I'm also not exactly a fan of heights. I can deal with it when it's something big and solid like an airplane, but I'm less good with it when it's something flimsy like a very tall ladder or a balloon.
2966250
Looking back on this comment after a few more seasons of the show it seems you were pretty much spot on with this.
BTW, there's a Cherry Berry tag now.