Interlude 2: Danver Carrot
Once more, we return to “The Assassination of Apple Tree by the Coward Danver Carrot.” As before, I apologize for the author’s strange fondness for back-country accents in both dialogue and narrative.
It bears mentioning that the novel alternated between the perspectives of Apple Tree and Danver Carrot; while the previous excerpt largely concerned itself with Apple Tree’s rise to prominence, this one will focus on the titular event of the work. Interestingly, the book’s title is somewhat deceptive, as it actually portrays Danver Carrot in a far more sympathetic light than he’s traditionally shown in history and popular culture. Apple Tree became something of a romantic martyr after his death, which naturally lead to the demonization of his killer.
It’s purty durn crazy t’think that a year ago, the biggest worry on mah mind was how t’get enough crops outta the ground t’feed mah family. Sounds wrong t’say that ain’t so important now—ain’t nothing more important to a right and proper stallion than takin’ care of his kin—but it weren’t ... big, Ah suppose. Ah mean, ain’t a thing in the world oughta matter more to a stallion than tendin’ to his kin, but ev’ry single farmer in all of Equestria does that. Most of ‘em live out their workin’ land, raisin’ a family, and livin’ out an ordinary life. Prob’ly never goin’ more’n a day’s walk away from the place they was born their whole life, and don’t make no difference to anypony further away than that either. Don’t mean those lives ain’t important to them that lives ‘em, but history’ll just roll on by without nopony takin’ no notice of ‘em.
But everythin’ that happened in the last year? Well, ain’t nopony gonna forget it, that’s for damn sure. Apple Tree aimed to start somethin’, an’ Ah reckon he did a purty good job of it. Had ponies all over Equestria talkin’ about how the common farmer deserves a square deal, and a lotta magnates were already sayin’ they’d think about it. Turns out, when all the sharecroppers say they ain’t gonna do no more work unless they get t’keep a bit more of the crops they’s been growin’, the magnates up and listen. One farmer’s easy to ignore, but when half a magnate’s ‘croppers are gettin’ riled they gotta give up somethin’ to settle ‘em down. So on that score, things’d worked out just fine and dandy.
Thing is, it all had t’go and get so gosh-durned complicated on us.
“Shoulda knowed they was gonna pull somethin’ on us—the magnates were never gonna let us nail ‘em up without tryin’ somethin’,” Apple Tree growled as he paced around in the nice fancified Manehatten hotel suite we’d been set up in for the last couple days.
“Which magnates’re these?” Ah asked. “The ones y’don’t like, or the ones payin’ for our hotel?” Once Tree’d started gettin’ up in the polls, all kindsa ponies with money and power started payin’ real close attention to him. A lotta them tried t’find a way to shut him up, but that didn’t work out so hot for any of ‘em. Some of them decided to play it smarter and make nice with him. Not sure how many of ‘em were really behind the idea of reformin’ things and how many of ‘em just figured their best chance of hangin’ on to what they had was to make nice with Tree. That’s why we’d gone from stayin’ in cheap flophouses to fancy hotels. Not sure Ah liked the idea of takin’ favors—they don’t ever come free—but politics costs money, and silk sheets were a nice step up from straw mattresses.
“That ain’t no part of it,” he grumbled. “Ah need bits, they got ‘em. They reckon that’s gonna make ‘em get special treatment, they’s gonna have another think comin’. Ah aim to make a clean sweep of all of ‘em, don’t make no difference how many bits they throw t’me.” He grinned and grabbed himself an apple from a silver bowl full of fresh fruit. “Might as well enjoy the money they’s givin’ me ‘fore Ah take the rest.” A second later his smile went and turned itself around, and he was scowlin’ and glarin’ out the window. “Or at least, that’s what Ah reckoned on doin’ ‘fore they went and stole the election.”
“Ain’t like that’s th’end of it, Tree,” Ah went and pointed out. “Y’already got Chanc’ler Celestia herself comin’ to talk to ya ‘bout how to sort all this out an’ get a good power-sharin’ thing up an’ runnin’. The way Ah see it, things’re goin’ real good.”
“Reckon we’ll see.” Tree went back to pacin’. “Ain’t sure Ah buy all this talk about sharin’ power an’ whatnot. Probably gonna be just like every time one of the magnates says he’s gonna let the village council have a say in how things’re run. Sure, maybe for a couple years they’ll get a little say in stuff that don’t matter none, but the real power stays with them that has all the money. The way Ah reckon it, any kind of setup’s gonna consist of me standin’ up and smilin’ and sayin’ everythin’s fine, while Celestia and the magnates keep on keepin’ on. Don’t reckon they would’ve gone and tried the steal the election t’start with if they aimed on playin’ fair.”
Though Ah wouldn’t be too surprised if he had the right of it, the truth of things weren’t quite that simple. “Ain’t like they was the only ones playin’ things a little fast an’ loose.”
“We was only cheatin’ to make up for all the cheatin’ they was doin!” Tree all but shouted at me, stompin’ on the floor hard enough to make it shake. “Wouldn’t have done any of that if we didn’t need to try and keep it all fair.”
“Don’t reckon you can call any race where both sides are cheatin’ fair.” Still, Ah got the gist of his point. If Ah were in a hoofrace and the other guy tripped me, I’d figure trippin’ him right back would balance the scales and all. That don’t mean it’d be the right thing to do. “You ask me, we shoulda kept our hooves clean. Ah’d rather lose and play fair than only win ‘cause Ah was the better cheater.”
Tree let out a snort and tossed his head. “Might be Ah’d agree with ya most of the time, but this ain’t no pie-eating contest at the fair. If we lose this, a whole lotta ponies are gonna be in a bad spot. The way ah see it, the farmers and little ponies ain’t gonna be too fussed about whether we did everythin’ right and proper when it’s the difference between them starvin’ and bein’ able to feed their families.”
“We gots to do things the right way,” Ah said right back at him. “Tryin’ to set things up to be fair when the only way we can pull it off is t’cheat is like building a big fancy new barn on a buncha swampland. You start off with a bad foundation, and ain’t nothin’ good ever gonna come of it. S’like my pa always said: two wrongs don’t make a right.”
“Know what Ah’d do if Ah wanted t’turn a buncha useless swamp into a nice chunk of farmland?” Tree gave me a quick little smile. “Ah’d just figure out how to t’drain the swamp.”
“How d’you reckon you’d drain a swamp made of lies and dirty dealin’?” Ah asked.
“Ain’t gonna be like that, Danver.” Tree turned his back to me. “Just need to do one or two little things to get into the Chanc’lership, and then we can start up on the reform and keep our hooves clean.”
That all sounded nice and good, but Ah wasn’t quite sure Ah bought it. Things ain’t never that easy.
The next day was our big meetin’ with Chanc’ler Celestia. Well, possibly ex-Chanc’ler, dependin’ on who ya asked. Things was already gettin’ awful tense in Manehatten. Not quite as bad as when there was that whole thang a couple weeks back over the mess with that foal-killer, but Ah had a feelin’ things was brewin’ up. Kinda like that feelin’ in the air whenever there’s a big storm comin’, but it ain’t here quite yet. Reckon that was why when we was supposed to come fer the meetin’ at the Chanc’ler’s mansion, we had ‘bout a dozen of the local sheriffs ridin’ herd on us. (1)
1: Presumably members of the Manehatten Civil Guard, though Danver unsurprisingly likens them to the law enforcement officials he’s used to dealing with. Unlike most civilian law enforcement organizations, which were gradually folded into the Equestrian Gendarmerie by the post-Rebellion reforms, many frontier towns in Equestria still have sheriffs—mostly because the ponies living there have to be largely self-reliant, and there’s not enough infrastructure to support a proper gendarmerie presence.
Meetin’ with Chanc’ler Celestia got interestin’ fast, and not just because of how fancy everythin’ in the Chanc’ler’s mansion was. The one thing Ah ain’t never heard about her before was just how gosh darned big the mare was. Ah mean, Tree and Ah were nice big strappin’ stallions, and next to her we both looked like a couple of colts stadin’ next to their mama. Fer some reason, that made me wanna check that mah hooves were clean and mah mane was looking nice and civilized. Next to her, Ah felt like a big stupid dirt farmer who shouldn’t oughta be messin’ around with any of this government stuff. Best leave all that to ponies like her, who knew better.
Tree, though ... well Ah reckon he had just about the exact opposite reaction. If anythin’, he seemed mad when Celestia walked in through the door. Maybe ‘cause it made him feel the exact same way as Ah did, and he didn’t care for it none. Tree ain’t never cared for bein’ reminded that he weren’t the biggest tree in the forest. Literally and mixaphorically.
“Hello, Apple Tree,” she said as she stepped in and took a seat on the opposite side of the table. “I hope we can work together to find a solution to the problems facing us.”
“A solution, huh?” Tree grumbled, lookin’ sourer than he did when he made the mistake of bitin’ into an apple that was more worms than fruit. “Ah gots a purty good solution in mind fer ya. Howsabout you apologize to everypony for tryin’ to fix the election, step down, and just go on and get back to runnin’ the unicorns?”
Ah leaned over and tried to keep mah voice all quiet and whisper-like when Ah told Tree, “Ain’t no call for bein’ rude, Tree.”
“Ain’tcha ever heard of negotiatin’, Danver?” Tree whispered right back. “Y’start like yer a jerk who’s got his head halfway up his plot, and then y’work your way down to reasonable.”
“Ah know how to dicker, Tree.” Ah grumbled at him. “Just reckon you don’t need to be rude about it.”
Before we could bicker anymore the Chanc’ler cleared her throat, and all of a sudden Ah felt like Ah was a little colt again, and ma had just caught me and my brother fightin’ over the last slice of pie. After Ah spent a couple seconds feelin’ like a right fool, she done spoke up again. “I am afraid that simply would not be a viable solution, Apple Tree. If thou wilt forgive me for being so blunt, thy politics are quite divisive ‘mongst thy own kind. ‘Tis no doubt why some of thy fellow earth ponies felt such fear at the prospect of thy rise to power that they felt the need to take unethical measures to prevent it.”
Tree let out an ornery snort and grumbled under his breath, “Ain’t nopony worried ‘bout my politics who’s worth worryin’ about, if y’ask me.” His tail gave a quick flick, and he raised up enough for everypony to hear the next part. “Well, let’s hear what you got in mind to fix it, then.”
The Chanc’ler gave a little nod, and used some of her alicorn magic to pull out a couple scrolls. “I think a power-sharing arrangement would be the most effective means of ensuring that everypony’s views are represented in the new government. I would remain in position as Chancellor of the Earth Ponies, whilst thou would take the post of vice-chancellor.” She raised up a hoof to cut Tree off before he could start kickin’ up a fuss over gettin’ the lower rank. “I would, of course, allow thee considerable leeway in the exercise of thy powers, as has customarily been the case.”
“Vice-chancellor does run all the day-to-day, Tree,” Ah advised him. “Maybe she gets a purtier title, but who cares s’long as you get to take care of things the way you want to? Besides, she’s gonna spend all her time up in Canterlot while you’re gonna be in the thick of things.”
“Sort of like how it don’t matter none if Ah’m sharecroppin’ on some magnate’s farm s’long as he only wants half of my harvest and don’t tell me how to push a plow?” Tree shot right back at me, addin’ in an angry shake of his head when he turned back to Celestia. “No ma’am, that ain’t gonna cut it. Ah ran for chanc’ler, not vice-chanc’ler. Way Ah see it, if anypony oughta be steppin’ down and takin’ the lower office, it should be you.”
Ah was purty surprised when Celestia’s only response was to give a little nod. “I have no objection to that in principle, though it will require substantially redefining the traditional relationship between chancellor and vice-chancellor to account for the new political realities of the situation.”
Tree dropped his voice and whispered to me. “Still ain’t sure Ah like it; Ah might be gettin’ the better title, but everypony’s used to doin’ what she says. Don’t want to end up bein’ a puppet with her pullin’ all the strings.”
“Way Ah see it, we oughta assume she’s dealin’ straight with us until she gives us a reason to think she ain’t,” Ah answered him.
“Like tryin’ to steal the election?” Tree paused, then rolled his eyes and got all sarcastical. “Yeah, Ah know, it weren’t her, it was some other ponies actin’ without her knowledge or consent. You buy that load of horseapples, you’re dumber than a bag of hammers. That’s what them political types always say when they get caught with their hooves in the cookie jar.”
“Reckon that’s what you woulda said if it was you that got caught cheatin’ first instead of her?” Ah shot right back at him.
One of Tree’s eyes gave a big twitch at that. “Your mouth’s flappin’ way too much, Danver. Might wanna see to that.” He turned his back on me and cleared his throat, then spoke all proper-like to Celestia. “Well, Ah reckon we can probably work out somethin’ that lets you keep some role in the government, just to make the change-over go a little easier. S’long as it’s clear who’s callin’ the shots— Ah don’t want everypony gettin’ mixed up on whether they oughta listen to you or me. Havin’ two chefs in the kitchen ain’t never ended well.”
“A reasonable enough measure,” Celestia agreed. “If we do not take the time to agree to boundaries and spheres of influence now, we will spend half of our term arguing over the matter.”
“Reckon you’re right on that one,” Tree gave a quick wave of his hoof. “Ah recollect two croppers spendin’ the better part of a year arguin’ over water rights on account of the magnate not spellin’ things out all clear-like.” Tree let out a snort, and pulled out a couple sheets of paper himself. Celestia didn’t need to know the paper was blank, on account of Tree not knowin’ his letters too well. (2) “Speakin’ of ponies arguin’ over property rights, Ah reckon the first big issue we oughta settle down an’ sort out is land reform. If you got enough farmland for a hundred ponies to work, it ain’t proper for one pony to own it all, and the other ninety nine to do all the work and only get to keep half their crop. We oughta change it up to be fair.”
2: At this time, illiteracy and semi-literacy were still fairly common among the lower classes in Equestria, especially for groups like rural earth pony farmers who had little practical use for the skill in their day-to-day lives. It’s easy to forget that Shadow and most of the ponies she dealt with were members of the elite upper class, and a very small cross-section of Equestrian society as a whole.
“I quite agree that things should be fair.” Celestia answered reasonably. “There is just one question I would ask of thee. What is fair? Perhaps one more question: fair for whom?”
Tree needed a couple seconds to even think about how to answer that one. “Well, it’s ... er ... it oughta be fair for everypony.” He shuffled on his cushion. “Y’know, everypony gets a fair share.”
“How much is a fair share?” Celestia asked.
Tree tripped over his words again, tryin’ to work out what to say next. “Well, the way Ah see it, everypony oughta own as much land as they need to take care of their kin. No more’n what they work themselves, either.”
“A reasonable proposition,” she answered, givin’ a considerin’ nod. “How much of their family? Immediate, or extended?” When Tree didn’t come up with a good answer to that, she hit him with another question. “What if the amount of land needed to provide for their family’s livelihood is more than they can work themselves? If a pony is injured in accident or has grown infirm due to age, wouldst thou take away his lands because he can no longer work them?”
“What?” Tree gave a quick shake of his head. “Nah, that ain’t how it oughta go!”
“Thou didst say a pony should only own as much land as he was capable of working,” Celestia answered him. “Which, it occurs to me, also raises the question of how one determines the amount of land a pony is capable of working. That can vary considerably. We would need to appoint some sort of government officials to tend to that, and considering just how many farms they would need to inspect, it would practically be a whole new branch of the government. I should also warn thee that, if Pegasopolis be any indication, government inspectors are rarely welcome in any context. And we would need to pay for this new administrative class, likely by raising taxes.”
Tree was startin’ to look a little green around the gills. “Well, Ah was gonna ... well, Ah ain’t figured that part, but—”
“There is also the matter of infrastructure to be considered,” Celestia continued on as if she hadn’t even heard him. “Right now, the local magnates are responsible for dealing with issues like irrigation, water tables, ensuring we have proper topsoil distribution and crop coverage, all kinds of things. Somepony else will need to be put in charge of all of that. As for handling future infrastructure work, like dam building and road improvements—well, that will be a rather thorny issue.”
Tree rubbed a hoof on his forehead. “Er, maybe we could have a village council or somethin’ to...”
“Then we must consider all the economic chaos that would result from transforming the economy from a system with a few large sellers of agricultural good to thousands of small independent farmers. ‘Twill certainly make bulk agricultural purchases exceedingly difficult. No doubt given sufficient time a class of middlemares will emerge to fill that need, but in the short term ... ‘twill be difficult.”
“But—”
“Finally, I wonder how much actual productivity we would be getting out of our farmland if we so heavily disincentivize hard work. Would ponies truly put their all into cultivating their land if they knew the government would take it away the instant they could no longer work it? Not to mention that if we base it on need, we will find that more efficient farmers receive smaller portions than those whose skills are lacking. Mayhaps the system could be altered to reward hard work and initiative by allowing the best farmers to have larger portions and pass some land on to their heirs, but then a new magnate class would emerge before long.” The Chanc’ler let out a sigh and gave a shake of her head. “I support reforms to ease the burdens of the common farmer, but doing it by way of land redistribution brings so very many questions to mind.”
Tree’s eye started twitching something fierce—Ah don’t reckon he much cared for all of them questions Celestia seemed so keen on askin’. “Well what’s your idea for fixin’ it then, if givin’ the land to the farmers ain’t gonna do no good?”
Celestia saw him gettin’ all ornery, and just gave him a friendly little smile. “Well, since thou didst ask...” She magicked up another scroll, and started readin’. “I think the current disparity in land ownership is a product of much deeper economic imbalances. Land redistribution would only treat the symptoms of the disease, not the root cause. I think that by increasing the legally mandated minimum share for sharecroppers, instituting a gradual buyback program for sharecroppers, and establishing a national bank to prevent magnates from using extortionate loan practices, we can bring things to a more equitable and far stabler state.”
The two of us stared at her for a tick, workin’ out what all those fancy words ideas meant in the language of plain-talkin’ ponies. After a couple second, Tree spoke up. “So how long d’you reckon it’d take for all that fancy stuff to happen?”
She took another look at her scroll. “I believe within thirty years, these policies can double the income of the average sharecropper, not to mention make considerable progress in laying the foundations for the reemergence of a proper yeoman farmer class.”
“Thirty years?” Tree scoffed at that. “What good’s that gonna do farmers who need help now?”
“It might not be as effective as thou wouldst wish in the short term, sir,” Celestia admitted. “But we must consider the wider implications; in the long term—”
“In the long term we’re all dead,” Tree cut her off, earnin’ himself a dirty look from just about everypony in the room except me and Celestia herself. “Well, all of us except you. Maybe you can afford to wait thirty years for things to get better, but Ah reckon the poor farmers tryin’ to scratch a livin’ outta the dirt want help now, not thirty years down the line.” He let out an ornery snort. “Assumin’ this whole story ain’t just somethin’ that sounds real nice right now but ain’t gonna come to nothin’. Thirty years is a long time for ponies to forget everythin’ you promised ‘em.” Tree got to his hooves. “Reckon we’ve said all there is to say, ‘bout now.”
“Very well.” Celestia rose and gave him a quick nod. “We will resume meeting on the morrow?”
Tree stared at her for a long moment, then very slowly nodded. “Yeah, reckon we can.”
Soon’s we was back at our hotel, Tree stopped tryin’ to be even remotely diplomatic and lemme know what he really thought about how things went. “What a gigantic load of horseapples. Shoulda known it weren’t gonna end any other way. She don’t think there’s no need to change nothin’, just throw enough fancy words at the uppity farmer to shut him up ‘cause he think’s somethin’s gonna be done now, and then wait for him to get old and die off.”
Ah stepped up and tried to get a hoof on his shoulder to make him settle a bit. “Ah really don’t think that’s the way of it, Tree. Ah reckon it’s just that the two of y’all got real different ideas on how things oughta be done. Way Ah see it, both of y’all had some good points. You’re right that the magnates gotta be taken down a couple pegs, but she ain’t wrong about how unless we change a whole lotta things that’re gonna make everythin’ real messy, all it’s gonna mean is that by the time your foals are runnin’ the farm, it’ll just be a new crop of magnates. That, or some govment official who does as close to the same thing as a magnate as makes no difference.”
“Ain’t gonna be like that Danver,” Tree insisted.
“What makes ya so sure of that?”
“It ain’t gonna be like that ‘cause Ah said it ain’t gonna be like that!” Ah jumped back real quick when he slammed a hoof down on the table hard enough to put a big dent in the wood. For a couple ticks Tree just stood there, growlin’ an carryin’ on like he wanted nothing more than to find somethin’ or somepony to put his hoof through. Finally, he seemed to settle down a bit, and moved on over to the couch. “Sorry about gettin’ all riled, Danver. All this pressure’s just really gettin’ to me, know what Ah mean?”
“Reckon Ah do.” Ah trotted on over the bar, and poured him some applejack and myself a little carrot brandy. Ah brought his drink, and he tossed it right straight down the hatch. Ah just sipped at mine, and got back to talkin’ “This whole situation’s just a big mess, an’ Ah don’t reckon ah much care for it. We gots to do somethin’ to sort it all out, but Ah don’t rightly know what.”
“Ah’ve got one idea.” Tree trotted back to the bar, and poured himself another drink. “The way Ah sees it, there ain’t no more point in tryin’ to talk things out with her. Just gonna be more of the same; a whole lotta fancy talk, and nothin’ real behind it all. Even if we work out some kinda deal, it’s crystal clear now that Celestia and the magnates ain’t never gonna let me do what needs doin’.” He tossed his drink back and grimaced, then poured another. “The only way things’re gonna get done is if we make it happen.”
Somethin’ about the way he said that just didn’t quite sit right with me. Weren’t any one thing Ah could put my hoof on and say ‘yeah, that’s it,’ but the whole thing just sounded a bit ... off. “Tree? Mind tellin’ me what exactly it is you’re sayin’?”
Tree settled into a chair opposite me, starin’ down at his drink. “Swapped a couple letters with one of them Pegasopolan A-phors. Well, had a fella do the writin’ and readin’ for me, but he wrote what Ah told him to.” He done waves his hoof like he was swattin’ away a fly or somethin’. “Point is, this Swift Blade fella let me know that if push came to shove, the pegasi would have my back. Reckon it might be gettin’ to about time to take him up on that.”
“Take him up on...” Ah dug hoof into my ear to make sure there weren’t a bunch of wax messin’ me up, ‘cause ain’t no way he coulda meant what Ah thought he did. “What’re you sayin’, Tree? That if you can’t work out some kinda deal where you get everythin’ you want, you’re gonna call up an army of pegasi and just take over?”
“Ain’t sayin’ that’s what Ah wanna do, Danver.” He got up and walked over to the balcony, takin’ his drink with him. “Don’t think Ah don’t get what could happen if Ah ask the pegasi to back me up on this. They’s soldiers, and Ah reckon they’d solve the problem the way most soldiers will deal with anythin’ that gets in their way.” He wasn’t lookin’ at me proper, but Ah could see his shoulders shakin’ just a bit. “Maybe it’ll work out best, this way. The magnates, the bankers, and all the rest of them have deep roots. Like a bunch of rotten trees stuck in the middle of a good orchard. Just choppin’ em down won’t do no good, you’ll still have the stumps to deal with. Might even have new trees spring up, or have the rot spread to the rest of the orchard. Only way you’ll ever really fix the problem is to clear the whole area and start again from scratch.”
“We’re talkin’ about ponies here, not trees.” Ah took a real deep breath, and tried to settle my mind a bit. “Look, Apple Tree, what you’re sayin’ ... it just ain’t right.”
“Well of course it ain’t right.” He tried to take another sip of his apple booze, but his hooves were shakin’ so fierce while he did it that he didn’t get but half of it to his lips. “Ain’t nothing about this whole damn mess that’s anywhere close to right. But s’far as Ah can see, there ain’t no other option except givin’ up, and that ain’t no option at all. Ah ain’t come this far just to sell out all the ponies back home now.” He finally managed to get his drink down—or at least, what was still left in the glass. “It’s a damn mucked-up lump of horseapples all around. Guess alls we can really do now is see the whole thing to the end, and hope we come out the other side with somethin’ to make everythin’ that’s comin’ worth it.”
Ah couldn’t believe my ears. “You make it sound like you figure on startin’ a war, Tree.”
He just shook his head, and stared out over the city. He couldn’t even stand to face me. “Yeah, Ah don’t reckon the magnates are gonna give up and let us normal farmers have a fair share without a fight.” He leaned halfway over the the rail on the balcony. “Like Ah said, it’s a bucked up mess. Ah just don’t see any other way outta it.”
Ah did. Celestia forgive me, but with Apple Tree standin’ there, with his back to me, right next to the balcony, Ah saw a way to stop the war. A way, at least Ah thought at the time, to save all those thousands of lives. Thinkin’ back on it, there were probably other things Ah coulda done, but right then and there ... it was all Ah could think to do. All Ah had to do was buck him in the hindquarters, and he’d go tumblin’ ass over teakettle right over the rail, and all the way to the ground. The hotel weren’t some giant tower or nothin’, but we were high enough and he’d be landin’ on a hard cobblestone road.
So Ah did it.
Ah killed my best friend.
Ah thought it was the only way to stop a war. Instead, all Ah ended up doin’ was startin’ it.
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As if things weren't complicated enough, the earth ponies had to go and throw another wrench into the delicate balance.
funny how most wars start by trying to avoid war...
I think Apple Tree's problem was that he was both too stubborn and too radical. He thought the only way to solve the current problem was to redistribute the land, and he wouldn't listen to any argument against it, no matter how good.
By the way, I loved how the accent pervading dialogue and narrative simply vanished whenever Celestia spoke up.
Wow. Even without the pegasus situation, this would have been a terrible idea.
Killing Apple, a very popular opponent to Celestia, that's been very outspoken about the ills the earth ponies have been having at the hands of the magistrate and Celestia's ignorance, right after having met with her? He'd already managed to get a lot of earth ponies listening and angry, enough so that he had an extremely good chance to take the election. This would just fuel the flames into an inferno. It's the kind of situation that devolves into civil war.
Not a bright move there, Carrot.
3530968
With all the sides we have playing already, I figure we have an entire toolbox in there.
I kinda hope to see more of Danver in the future. He seems pretty interesting.
3531313
And then Apple Tree was Malcom X. Only not really, but it's the closest thing I can think of.
3531329 Yeah, I'm thinking that he was intending for Carrot (or someone else) to off him and make him a martyr.
Jeez... If it wasn't to tragic, this could almost be a comedy of errors; every time somebody tries to make things right, things only get that much worse.
Oh god what.
So his best friend, instead of say trying to talk him out of it, or informing other earth-ponies about the plan so they could counter it or at the very least debate it, just kills him.
just, up and kills him.
And he thought that by killing him it would stop a war, which may or may not be what was going to happen. So instead he just assures it would happen.
I really want to emphasise with that character, but that was just plain dumb.
3531400 People can do really dumb things when they think their world is about to crumble out from under them. In some cases, like Danver's, reacting out of panic helps assure the outcome they were trying to avoid, though if Apple Tree was as stubborn and determined as Danver feared, it probably would have happened anyway.
3531479
There is acting dumb, there is acting stupid, then there is acting so idiotic that in almost no context does this behaviour make sense. I can understand that in a panky situation, under server pressure, characters can snap, and do things out of instinct. That is obviously a given.
But, whilst the character in question is under severe stress, he's be no means in such a situation where he even has to hurry. There was so much he could have done OTHER then kill him, and literally every other possibility makes more SENSE. Even if he made the rash decision to kill him, he could have even pretended to make it look like an accident, or just gone back, found Celestia and agreed to the deal whilst he still had authority to throw around.
My main gripe with the killing is just that it makes almost no sense. We get a paragraph of him Danver saying he could kill him, then three line saying he did kill him. And that shit happened anyway. No clear motivation, and this whole chapter is meant to be an extract from a book Danver HIMSELF wrote afterwards. I'm pretty damn sure he'd try and justify what he did more then "I did it".
Celestia, for someone with such breadth of knowledge and experience, you really, really suck at being a salespony. There were so many ways you could have spun that to sound far closer to what Apple already wanted, and instead you sound like a stuck-up know-it-all and blow the whole negotiation.
3531313 The kind of amusing thing is, isn't the insane plan Appletree's describing how Equestrian actually works in modern times?
gee, this sounds like a VERY familiar Earth Pony and Pegasus.
apparently, one thousand years doesn't change much.
Also, Apple tree reminds me of me.
good ideas, but no idea how to actually execute them.
so, now we have a killing made in an effort to prevent war.
but, because Carrot is a simplistic Earth Pony with a rather limited knowledge on, well, everything, he didn't think about what everypony will immediately conclude, considering that all everypony else knows is that Celestia and Apple Tree just had a meeting, and Apple Tree is dead.
Celestia is really bad at this whole ruling a country thing.
3532120
I get the feeling she really doesn't like doing it.
It's difficult to do something well if you have no passion for the undertaking.
3531479
I agree with 3531506. This happened way too suddenly and doesn't make any sense. Carrot didn't come across as nearly panicked enough to think that this was the right thing to do. What he ought to have done was refuse to be a part of Tree's plans, resign from his team, and go blow the whistle. Having him just up and do the deed like this? It's simply not believable.
3531506
I don't actually think Danver is reacting out of panic.
There's no need to reach for panic when idiocy is a plausible answer. Danver and Apple are both morons. There's really no sugarcoating that. This takes place in what is probably analogous to the Middle Ages on Earth. And what could you say about the working serfs and such back then? They were dumb as a bloody post. And completely uncivilized by any modern standards. The nobility was little better. You pretty much come out of elementary school these days more socialized, more educated and more ethical than anyone in a time like that.
We're used to seeing the very cream of the crop. The scholars. The veteran politicians. The immortals and learned wizards.
But in this chapter, we don't see that. We see a bunch of dumb farmers, who live up to every stereotype of the dumb farmer. They have good intentions, but have absolutely no idea what to do with them. And Chen did great in showing just how out of their intellectual league they are, when they met Celestia.
If you're expecting subtle manipulation or careful, thoughtful debate out of people like that, you're going to be disappointed. Instead we get them kicking people out the window to try to save thousands of ponies.
3532537
I think you guys should remember that these excerpts are from an in-universe fictional work. This is not actually Denver's first-person thoughts or even his account (unlike the story itself which is at least authored by Shadow herself). Unreliable narrator applies double.
EDIT: Yeah, check back to the first interlude. The book is historical fiction, like the novel it is a punning off.
3532495
Then maybe she should step down.
3532537
Eep, forgot to reply you in to my below comment.
But basically, as a tl:dr to what I wrote below:
You would do that. As a rational, intelligent, thoughtful person. That's what's expected in modern society. And by and large we live up to it.
How I just described you has nothing to do with Danver and Apple. They are the unwashed, drooling morons of society that's probably still pretty stupid.
3532120
Honest, that's one of my favorite things about this fic. That we see Celestia before she actually figured it out, and became this ever-wise, untouchable super-monarch.
3532749
I do get where you are coming from, both of these characters are exceptionally stupid, but they aren't criminally disabled or anything. The murder could have been done right, with us seeing some of what he thought BEFORE he actually killed him IE motivation. But as is, we are left "I thought about killing him, then I did."
The whole 'to dumb to breathe so he flipped out and killed someone' thing doesn't really hold water when you consider that this is a passage HE wrote, in his own words. If these really are the middle ages, it's a great privilege to be able to read and write, and that requires more then two brain cells. I refuse to believe a character that dumb could learn to read and write, OR to do any of the things he is mentioned as doing in this chapter.
At the end of the day we are just talking round the point. The point is that as is, this chapter ends abruptly, gives a very lazy 'oh I killed him cuz' end and doesn't feel at all well done or like it even has a place in this story.
3532537
Yeah, too bad the sharecroppers would still be up in arms and start a war regardless. Apple Tree was to stubborn to accept any compromise and was willing to start a war in order to get what policies he wanted. There was never an option that wouldn't have resulted in bloodshed after the ballots started being stuffed. If the Pegasi hadn't offered their support then the opinion of war wouldn't have been feasible. Danver Carrot did the only thing he could think of to stop a war that couldn't be stopped. Neither Apple Tree or Celestia could have reached an acceptable compromise as Celestia cannot think in the short term that everyone else lives in and Apple Tree is more concerned with seeing results that will help out the poor sharecroppers within their lifetimes and not their children's.
TL;DR
Tensions between the sharecroppers and magnates had been tense for sometime and Celestia and Apple Tree wouldn't have reached an acceptable compromise. This entire situation became a powder keg once the Pegasi pledged support and the sharecroppers banded together. War was inevitable and Danver Carrot did all he could think of to prevent it but inevitably provided the spark that set it all off.
3532812
Fair enough! If you feel that way, you feel that way.
For me, it works. I've always had an interest in stuff like modern psychology and sociology vs. what it was like in the past. And it has ever shocked and intrigued me, watching-a-train-wreck fashion, to see how completely unlike a modern person that people in the past were.
Imagine the worst place in the world. The most violent, genocide ridden hellhole today. The sort of place where you have a good chance of getting gunned down by AK-47 wielding thugs in your lifetime. Or being raped. Or maimed.
That living hell-on-Earth has rates of violent crime and murder that the very nicest and most civilized places in the world had in the timeframe we were dealing with, in this story.
People back then just... killed eachother. Because they didn't understand murder as we do. They didn't have the same ethical and intellectual background we do. Or the ingrained social mores telling you to behave, and not hit people, or kill them for any little slight.
Mix that same moral-blindness with thinking you're doing the right thing? I can totally buy an idealist killing people to save others, and not really considering the long-term ramification therein.
3532862
Bygones be bygones I guess. To me, it's just to vague as a piece of writing and needs either re-working or at least some fine tuning to better get across that characters motivations properly. Which, at the moment for the ending, it just doesn't.
3531329
No doubt if he'd asked for Pegasi assistance, Swift would have actually had him offed anyway and blamed it on Celestia. I have a feeling Tree was dead from the start of all this. If only he'd dropped his uneducated pride and taken up Celestia on her more-than-reasonable idea.
It can only be expected that a war would break out sooner or later. I mean after banishing her sister to the moon Celestia tries to play the part of Queen, Chancellor and Commander all by herself. Three different positions that are normally held by three different individuals. She clearly played the role of Queen of the unicorns well, but in the end left 2/3 of her kingdom unattended for over a century.
It would've been best if Celestia had united the three countries a century ago like Sunbeam Sparkle had suggested. Instead of waiting for so long.
3532757 That is not an excuse for poor and unrealistic writing. Particularly because that forward also says that, while it is a work of fiction, it is still pretty close to what actually happened.
3532763 Well, you're certainly letting your elitist flag fly. Folks back then were a lot less educated and informed, but they weren't less intelligent, or less able to get along in societies. You're just pulling that out of thin air. The real problem in places like modern Afghanistan or dark-ages Europe is the lack of a central authority. In those areas, a sociopath with lots of weapons and a modest gang of followers can do a lot of damage because there's no counter-weight to stop him. We have the exact same problem right here in modern America (heavily armed sociopaths), but the government quickly slaps them down before they can do any real damage.
3532821 That may be, but Carrot still didn't act in a believable manner.
3532812 I think that you are forgetting that he could of used a scribe....
3532537>>3532862>>3532946 I suppose that's the thing, isn't it? We may have a fairly accurate account of the actions that took place, but even in the context of how the story is presented to us, the motivations and behind-the-scenes conversations that are presented to us are not a direct depiction, but a product of hearsay and speculation. In the end, we don't really know what was going through anyone's head at the time.
3532946
On the contrary, that is exactly the explanation. The author is attempting to make Denver sympathetic and so is forced into a ham handed justification for his actions, which are actually really sketchy.
3532946
I reserve the right to be 'elitist' against people that are a thousand years dead. I promise it won't hurt their feelings.
And I'm not just pulling it out of my rear. Do a little research on the topic (not that you will, but still). The murder rate per hundred thousand was worse than what you see in war-torn Africa today, even in the most civilized places.
Or look up a etiquette primer from the days of yore. Those filled a very vital role in society, and their popularity is one of the things that paved the way for modern etiquette. We can laugh at how trite and silly they are now. But at one point in our history, adults really did need to be taught not to piss on the wall by the dinner table. Or to not scratch their ass in company and sniff at what they found. All of that stuff has since been absorbed into the consciousness of society. We learn it as kids, and our mothers scold us when we do something stupid. People were once not Rarity-friendly.
People's capability for intelligence wasn't any less. Humanity remains humanity. But they sure as heck didn't use it to the same degree we do. And that's fine! It's a good thing that we learn and develop as a society or species, or whatever. If we didn't get 'better', I'd wonder what the hell we were doing. But there's no need to put on rose-tilted nostalgia goggles. The distant past wasn't a simpler, purer time, it was a bloodbath of murder, warfare and genocide.
And yes, you're right about strong, central authority being a good thing. But it wasn't just roving bands of sociopaths that said authority held down. People used to kill eachother over every stupid slight. Over honor (even just being shamed), or disagreements, or any number of reasons we would never think of killing eachother for now. To say nothing of how many crimes were punished by death or maiming. The creation of an impartial, central authority that took the power over vengeance and punishment away from your average stab-happy person on the street was another big step forward.
Clearly Equestria wasn't that bad. And I don't think it would help the narrative if it was. But I don't think we should be expecting the same thing from Danver and Apple as we would from a modern pony. Especially since they clearly hover down near the lowest rung of a society that seems okay with extreme poverty being a thing.
3533133
Fair enough! We're told in the previous interlude that it's a work of historical fiction. So indeed, having an unreliable narrator is distinctly possible.
Apple was totally sleeping with Danver's wife. And it was time to settle the score. New headcanon.
3531526
I think that's half the point of this story. Celestia's so out of touch with everyone except maybe the unicorns that she's mishandling everything, and it's just snowballing out of control.
3532757
I guarantee you she legitimately feels she's doing a better job than anyone else could. That she deeply believes she is protecting and guiding the pony race and they would dissolve into war and anarchy without her.
She's got, basically, a god complex.
Granted, her "benevolent" monarchy is less susceptible to corruption than the average one (at its highest level, I mean), but simply not being corrupt isn't all that's needed from a ruler.
Apple Tree is a god damned idiot. He understands nothing, so he assumes it means nothing, so he starts grumbling about war.
I can understand Danver Carrot a little more. From what I can tell, Tree was never going to be talked out of it. Not once it got into his head that he might just be in the right. I would probably have gone to Celestia first, though.
We communist revolution now.
inb4 proxy war between the pegasi and unicorns that quickly drops any pretenses of being proxy
I cannot explain how angry I am with the Earth ponies, they claim to be a democracy, without even knowing what one is! by the people for the people means that the gov't belons to the people/ponies, if the population doesn't like how something is done, they should change it! instead they let tyrants and magnates rule over them with iron hooves without fighting back! I really respect Apple Tree, i do. but he is the wrong figurehead for democracy, thinking only his way should remain, and not even taking advice directions from the vox populi (the common people, not the group from bioshock), instead he assumes that whatever he thinks is how everypony feels, and that just rubs me the wrong way.
3535228
I don't consider Apple Tree an idiot, but I do consider him very under educated and way out of his league. This prevents him from having the ability to understand the big picture. While big picture is unfair, he has reached his limit on how to explain what he feels needs to be changed, to understand what's being offered, and understand what's on the other side of the table . Celestia suprised me by being not really trying to understand the core problem and instead bamboozle AT with that "did you really think of the details" series of questions. She should have been more sympathetic, at least I think so.
But hey, we're starting a war here.
Wow, those words from Carrot are foreshadowing enough.
With Earth ponies already riled up by Apple Tree to make a change, and with a secret promise from Swift Blade to aid Apple Tree and all . . . The way I see it, this could be Swift Blade's chance to start it up. Oh boy. 
Now I'm anxious to see what the next chapter will have in store.
Wow, apparently Celestia hates socialism and communistic redistribution. I like, I like a lot!
Seriously, one thing I do love about the Royal Sisters is that, given the immortality they've always displayed, they have the benefit of retaining a quality that so few leaders in our own world lack: that being, farsightedness. They understand almost in an instant how an action now will affect the world around them 50 or even 100 years from now, and so they generally focus on planning for the long term, not just the short term, and that is the mark of a true leader in my book. It's also one reason that socialistic ventures so often fail; don't get me wrong, any political venture that doesn't plan for the long term will inevitably fail, but socialistic and communistic ventures especially seem to always try to get far too much done in far too little time. Big reason why old communist states like the Soviet Union inevitably failed in the long run, no matter how much geopolitical clout they obtained or how large their military infrastructure was; they simply couldn't support themselves any longer, in the Soviet Union's case, financially, for example.
Anyways, great little interlude Chengar! I especially loved Celestia's thrashing of Apple Tree's proposed ideas, a smile fixed on her face the whole time; the best part is, I know she wasn't even being antagonistic! She really did want to work with him, but she was also just being her usual, wise, realistic, amazing self in illustrating how untenable his ideas were. Can't wait to see the fallout of all this; I get the feeling that "Gathering Shadows" is near its end, and that "The Storm Breaks" will soon be upon us (don't know if that's the name or not of the next book, just sounded like it would make sense to me
). Keep up the great writing!!! 
I'm not sure if Apple Tree is a bigger hypocritic or idiot.
Wait, never mind, Danver is the bigger idiot by far.
3536124
That's the thing about names, people can call it anything they want no matter what it is in reality and they can always convince some others that it is true.
Case in point is the "Democratic People's Republic of Korea," or as the English world calls it North Korea. It resembles a democracy in name only, but they have their people convinced that it's a people's Republic instead of the communist dictatorship it really is. And history is littered with other examples, this is just the easiest modern one I can name.
3538098
actually, it is a democracy though(or at least it was before the magnates). The Earth ponies don't strike me as the kind who would willingly lay down their will to some dictator(s), they were a tribe built upon the foundation of farmers, earneing an honest day's wage in crops for an honest day's work, with everypony only handing what they coulkd, and working in harmony with an elected official (chancellor/ president, title doesn't actually matter). Someone that could best represent their belief but also being under watch so the Chancellor knew what the average pony (as closely as possible) wanted. Those, in essence, are the foundations of a democracy, quoting Abraham Lincoln, "A house Divided Amongst Itself Cannot Stand" In essense meaning that without a strong foundation (The average Earth pony, carefully giving the gov't power and kepping it on a leash if the figure head gets out of bounds) the house will topple over, and everyone falls, meaning that if the backbone keeping the democracy alive falls, everything, including the middle mares to the magnates, is brought down as well, so it is really in the magnates interest to appease the Earth pony lower class (farmers and such) to keep the power they still have. or it WOULD be, if the Earth ponies knew how to MAINTAIN it!
tl;dr they are a democracy, they just aren't doing it right
3533460 I'm not the least bit worried about you hurting people's feelings. I'm simply pointing out that your amazingly entertaining superiority complex has fooled you into thinking that you're correct, even though you're blatantly wrong. People back then did not commit murder more often, or act more violent on points of pride, and that is a fact. You are, quite simply, pulling your claims to the contrary out of thin air based on your warped misunderstanding of history. You, of course, have yourself convinced otherwise, but you're wrong.
The truth is, people are the same now as we ever were. We haven't become any less murderous or prideful, we simply have stronger legal systems that keep things in check. If you were to do any research regarding history, sociology, and psychology, this would be pretty obvious. I don't expect you to educate yourself, though, as your case of the Dunning-Kruger effect is one of the most over-blown I've ever seen.
Please do reply again to continue defending your absurdly bad understanding of human nature. You're giving me some of the best laughs I've had in a long time.
3538944
That's the kicker though, they are maintaining it. They have been maintaining the status quo for a few hundred years now with only some very gradual changes. I have yet to see any Earth Pony dictators, just the occasional short sighted land owner and a pony with a noble but delusional vision. Since we have yet to reach the modern Equestria built on harmony, the world is an inherently imperfect place where some ponies have consolidated more power and resources than others. Sometimes they used underhoofed means, while others just legitimately worked harder and earned what they had, it's just a shame that their inheritors were not as noble.
And as for your Lincoln quote, sorry but that doesn't apply here. The house of the Earth Ponies wasn't divided until the Ephors decided to apply some pressure and fracture the house from the outside. The Earth Ponies would have been just fine if they hadn't gotten riled up with false promises of fairness and equality that would have been very short lived and would have given birth to an even worse class, the bureaucrats. Those ponies who never have to actually work, but instead they would be the ones to decide the distribution of the lands and wealth solely based on their definition of fairness.
And to finish up with my own paraphrased Lincoln quote "We will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Is that O Brother Where Art Thou? I see?
3539425
No, I'm not pulling it out of my ass. I'm talking about statistical fact.
The murder rate per hundred thousand in Europe is between 1 and 2, generally, today.
At the time we're talking about, it was somewhere closer to 50, on average. With numbers going as high as 200. Back then, people were 25 to 50 times more likely to murder eachother. And that's somewhere generally thought of is very civilized for the time.
The highest in the world today is Honduras, at 91. With El Salvador trailing at seventy. And the Ivory Cost at 57. Nothing else is above 50. Not out of 200 countries in the world.
I know cynics love to think that the world is a giant craphole now. And the worst it's ever been. But that is statistically a giant lie. Crime rates across the board are the lowest they've ever been in history. People have never been better to eachother. For a whole host of reasons.
It's not elitism. It's progress. Social, moral, technological and quality-of-life progress.
Human beings were the same as they are today, back then. But that doesn't mean they acted the same. Or thought of the world in the same way. Or enjoyed all the benefits we do
I can't imagine why it wouldn't be exactly that way with ponies.
In any case, if you want to continue to call me the world's most elitist jerkwad, do it to me in PMs. I think we've cluttered up these comments enough, neh?
3539906
guess I can't argue with someone who legitamitely has their facts together
I conceed the ponit to you fine Sir or Madam
And despite that, the war still exploded.
In a different way, of course, but it still happened. I can't help but wonder what would have happened in the other situation. The same, most likely.
...really.
SHARED power, you say?
Not a second election with stronger security measures? I personally think such a recount would be far more reasonable.
I realize the logistics would be an incredible expense. The previous election had a lot of time to be put together, whereas this one would not. It still would have been a better thing to do.
Particularly since she decided to go with the idea of Apple Tree having more power than her. Was that really what the people wanted? It's impossible to tell, the election was a sham. She has to stop simply deciding how things should be run, whether or not she's willing to share power when doing so.
Additionally, Apple Tree was startling. He went from bemoaning farmers not getting a fair deal while the fat cats eat up all the profits, to planning to commit mass murder. What.
Lastly, this whole class warfare thing should have been identified as the main issue, not the economic disparity. What they needed is some form of labor reforms. Increasing the crop share of the farmers is good, reasonable quotas and rest periods would be good too. A cushion if a farmer is injured. Incremental taxes based on the amount of land owned to discourage these mega-magistrates from coming to power. Create a bit of a more personal relationship between farmer and magistrate so that the later is seen as more of a patron than an overlord. Maybe encourage them politically and legally protect their interests. Magistrates, as Celestia pointed out, perform a beneficial role in the overall economy, so the workers need to be incentivized into seeing them as a good thing. There's a LOT of rights that could have been granted, as well as incentives that could be offered to the magistrates to try and make this relationship beneficial, so that employer and employee aren't on opposite ends of a battlefield.
Because it shouldn't just be about economics. It should be about building harmony.