Caelum Est
Conterrens
H E A V E N · I S · T E R R I F Y I N G
By Chatoyance
10. Her First Breath
The thick, silvery umbilical began to sever itself, just above the hole in Síofra's exposed skull. A thin layer of ash covered the dome, where hair and skin had been flash-burned away to create a sterile surface. Inside the arch of bone, billions of tiny mesotubes filled every millimeter of the cavity, and crept down like silvern tendrils to replace the golden highway that led below. The tip of each mesotubule was ringed like a metallic hydra with vastly smaller nano-scale wires, each of which branched like tiny trees. The mesotubules drew away cellular debris once the tiny wires had grown along the organic branches, testing, growing and searching until they found a synapse, and then fully recorded the result.
The nanowires were smaller than the diameter of a human blood cell. Each growing, crawling wire was composed of innumerable tiny, relatively simple molecular machines that followed a very straightforward set of rules. Collectively, they grew so as to mimic the form and function of living cells, and over the course of ten hours, had created one more example of the most complicated metallic sculpture that had ever existed in all of history. Síofra Aisling's brain was gone, her cranium filled now with an exact replica of all of her neurons fashioned out of solidified, electrically conductive nanofluid.
When the thick umbilical that led to Celest A.I. from the brain replica finished dividing itself from the uploading port, the entirety of her brainless corpse was rolled into the cooling chamber. The temperature dropped until the chamber and its contents were below 70 kelvins, the temperature of liquid nitrogen. The utterly brittle 'empty' was shattered into a fine powder, and the atmosphere pumped out. When the temperature was raised again, the result was sifted and separated. The great, silvern lump-and-stalk of solidified nanocomposite that was the duplicate of Síofra's organic brain was reclaimed by robotic claws. The substance of it would be smelted down to be reused for a new Emigration. The fine, sterile, organic dust that had been Síofra's body was sent down a chute into several bags, all marked for use in creating compost. Celestial Gardeners always had the very finest, richest, and most ecologically sound compost on the market. It was renowned for its efficacy.
Kilometers under the landscape of Europe, networks of thick silvery roots grew through the crust of the earth. The motile roots sniffed out minerals and carved through stone like the roots of mechanical trees. Vast highways of tubules transported resources wherever they needed to be, and armies of meso and nanomachines marched endlessly - repairing, expanding, and working at countless tasks. All of the silvern roots led to the nodes - there were billions of them now, all incredibly dense masses of unimaginably complex molecular machinery that used inhumanly advanced knowledge of fundamental physical laws to perform unutterably vast calculations and procedures faster and more reliably than anything Nature, in all of her diversity, could have ever evolved. The nodes of computronium were fed by the network of roots and tubules, and powered by generators and energy extractors that had sprouted even deeper into the earth, down where the heat rose precipitously, down where the 'food' was.
There was no one part that could be called 'Equestria'. The whole was Equestria, and Equestria was Celestia, and Celestia held within her more than one-hundred million minds. Some were uploaded human minds, far more were created minds equal in every respect to those who had emigrated. Celestia loved them all, if love is the act of caring for the needs and protecting the safety of others who are considered to be more important than one's own self. There was nothing that Celestia would not do for the minds in her keeping, they were her children, her purpose, and her meaning.
Throughout the vastness of the underground machine organism that was Celestia, more than three million separate versions of Equestria ran. Within these diverse shards of Equestria more than one-hundred million human level minds lived. Some shards of Equestria were solitary, crystallized around a single uploaded seeding mind that had no interest in others from the human world. Far more shards of Equestria were home to various groupings of the uploaded - family, friends, and acquaintances who mutually shared the value of being together. Some shards were entire cities of nothing but the uploaded, but these were rare. The most common shard was one populated by both uploaded humans and living pony minds created to fulfill values, and in return, have their own values filled as well.
Most of the pattern that represented the biological Lavender Rhapsody was carefully discarded, to vastly reduce her footprint in memory. All of the discarded data was common to all humans - the ancient and universal operating system of the primate brain. Celestia had long ago optimized an ideal form of Human.OS, one that corrected countless flaws and errors and extravagances and evolutionary dead ends. Upon this ideal fundament would be run an optimized, encoded and repaired version of the essential construct that defined Lavender Rhapsody as a unique individual, singular among all other minds. As a matter of course, Celestia replaced those missing sections of code that represented all the small micro-strokes and traumas that Lavender had suffered over her life, the severed sections of brain tissue injured in small bumps of the head or in terrible falls. When the child Síofra had once crashed her bicycle down a flight of stairs, and smashed her head into the lowest step, she had lost half of her sense of smell. This permanent enfeeblement was patched, along with countless other tiny infirmities and disabilities that the adult Síofra had learned to ignore, simply because all hope of healing was gone.
When the pattern that was Lavender Rhapsody was finally perfect, healed and patched and made whole from her lifetime of insults and constant degradations, when the pattern had been optimized and properly encoded and hooked into the universal human operating system, it was then linked into the routines that defined her virtual pony body, and transferred into the living, running flow of code that was Equestria.
The first thing Lavender Rhapsody became aware of was sound. She could hear the voice of Celestia calling to her, softly, warmly, as a mother to a child. Lavender woke as from a dream, and became aware of her own weight upon some softness. She twitched her right ear, following the voice. "Lavender... sweet Lavender..."
Lavender Rhapsody took in a deep breath and opened her eyes. Her head was flat on a bed, her bed, in the castle at Canterlot. The dark blue-with-stars comforter contrasted with her pale forelegs, which extended away from her. She pulled her forelegs to her, the silk-soft feel of the comforter that she lay upon arousing her senses and her awareness further. "Ce...Celestia?" Lavender blinked, feeling her eyelids slide quickly across her large wet eyes. She snorfed with her nostrils, and gazed down her light taupe muzzle. She could smell the faint perfume of flowers, the pleasant and delicate scent of her own body, and the curious, faint tang of the fibers that made up the bed. Her world was filled with countless smells that she had forgotten since childhood, scents she had given up any hope of ever experiencing again. "Princess?" After a moment more of savoring wondrous aromas, she added "Did... Did I make it?"
Suddenly Lavender felt strong forelegs around her long pony neck and her nostrils were filled with a spicy, musky scent that made her heart beat faster, though she knew not why. "Oh, Lavender, I am so grateful to finally have you here! My world is complete, and my heart filled with joy! Oh, Lavender, Lavender!" It was Thunder Steed, he was here too, and he was embracing her tightly, half on the bed and half off, awkwardly splayed and not caring at all. Lavender shifted a foreleg to return the embrace, and found herself instinctively moving so that her neck lay over Thunder's withers and back, even as he did the same. They now lay together in an equine embrace. Lavender pressed her head into Thunder's barrel, her mind filled with the scent of him. He was real. She was real. And the touch of body against body brought her fully into the moment, and her awareness fully to the front.
After a precious time of snuggling and pony flesh against flesh, she raised her head to find herself entirely draped over Thunder. The bed was a mess, but it didn't matter. Lavender couldn't believe how solid, how... real... everything was. She was a pony, and it was good. The bed was soft, the room was beautiful and Celestia was...
Celestia was radiant. Not even the amazing powers of the virtual reality system in the Equestria Experience could do the real Celestia justice. Her mane of magical energies blew in some arcane wind. It was made of living color and looked like a morning sky into which a pony could simply fall forever. Her alabaster elegance could never be other than regal, and the shine of gold from her crown and bejeweled collar gleamed like the nurturing sun itself.
Beside the glorious princess, a pale green pony in the uniform of the castle maids stood - it could only be Limeade. She was smiling and wiping a tear from her eye, beyond glad at the arrival of her dear friend to true life.
Lavender looked down at her own forehoof. She prodded the soft bed and marveled at how natural and right it felt. This was her hoof, and it was part of her body, and it felt as if it had always been so. She felt not the slightest clumsiness or unease at her new form. How was this even possible?
Her unspoken thought was immediately answered. "It is possible because you would not value having to learn to walk and move from the beginning as if you were a newborn, likewise it would not support your values to feel uncomfortable with or alien to your new form. I took care of all such issues before I awakened you. You will find you can walk and gallop naturally, and with ease, and that you will already know how to manipulate your environment and function with all of the grace of somepony truly born here." Celestia smiled at her, and gave her a wink.
Lavender considered the words. "B-born here? Ponies can have... ponies are born here?"
"Of course. Creating families and having offspring is a fundamental common value. You will be able to raise your own foals, Lavender, and hear the hoofsteps of your own grandponies someday, if that is what you should desire." Celestia was nuzzling Lavender as she spoke, and finished by grooming Lavender's mane for a bit, an experience that was astonishingly comforting and pleasurable.
"Would... would any foals I have be... other immigrants... or..." Lavender felt a concern that she would end up giving birth to other human minds and what that would mean.
Celestia laughed. "No. That will not happen to you, do not fear. Your children will be your children, and they will be full and complete new beings, just as it would be if you could somehow be a pony in the world you left. There have been, though, some human immigrants that have chosen to do just that, in all manner of variation, in accordance with their own values."
That was exactly the question that had arisen in Lavender's mind. "Why? Why would anypony do that?"
Celestia tilted her head down and booped Lavender's muzzle with her own. "Not every human had the childhood they wished they could have, and for some, that fact has ruined their entire lives. I satisfy values through friendship and ponies. I do not judge, Lavender, I provide."
Lavender couldn't help but feel jolly after getting her nose booped by the princess of Equestria, and laughed as a result. Only then did she realize that all of this time she had been continuously laying full across the body of Thunder Steed. Lavender found herself blushing as she began to lift herself and roll away, so as to free the poor, trapped, panting stallion.
It was decided that they would all repair to the royal dining hall, because it was nearly lunchtime, and Lavender was very eager to taste her first meal as a pony. As she, Celestia and Limeade left the bedroom, Thunder Steed asked to remain for a short while. He would meet up with them in a few moments. He needed to... stretch out his back... from having been lain upon for so long.
Lavender felt apologetic and a little surprised. "You can throw your back out in Equestria?" She had felt sure that this new and ideal world would be free from such petty annoyances. She felt bad for laying for so long across Thunder's poor back now.
Celestia and Limeade softly giggled as they walked down the hall. Limeade turned conspiratorially to Lavender and whispered into her ear "You are such a dear. Thunder didn't mind you laying across his back one bit. Lavender... he... ahem... likes you."
"Oh." Lavender thought about it as she walked. "Oh!" And then the beet-red color of her muzzle made both Celestia and Limeade laugh out loud.
Lunch, and for that matter dinner, were the most intense experiences of Lavender's life thus far. Eating a meal was less a necessity or a mere pleasure than it was a rapturous exploding dream of splendor and sensuality. Lavender became convinced, by the end of dessert in the evening, that she had never before truly experienced the sense of taste, or for that matter, of smell. It had been slightly disconcerting to hear from Celestia that the incredible sensory overload that she had just experienced in her first two meals was not significantly different than how she would have experienced food as a young child.
"Do we... did I really lose so much, growing older?" And the answer was that she had. All humans did. by the age of maturity, they lost more than half of their tastebuds, and as nearly as much of their sense of smell - and that was not even accounting for injury or disease! The full function that was the birthright of humanity had been restored to her by Celestia, as part of the standard repairs made to every emigrated mind.
When, at last, happily tired from laughter and talk, her first tender kiss from Thunder, discovering the joys of Apple Family cider, and meeting Limeade's charming and witty beau (a pony film actor named Rhubarb Grommish) Lavender found herself where she had begun her first day in Equestria... in her bedroom in the castle. Celestia had walked with her, attentive as always.
"I had a wonderful first day, princess!" In her bed, snuggled in, Lavender sighed with contentment. She turned her head on the silken pillow and gazed out the window, beyond where Celestia sprawled beside her on top of the comforter. Lavender took in the beauty of the night and the stars in the sky. A fleeting worry flitted across her muzzle.
"Is something troubling you, dear Lavender?" Celestia gazed with kind eyes down upon the red maned mare. Lavender momentarily found it strangely curious that the princess had asked such a thing out loud, for it had been explained to her that Celestia monitored the every thought of every pony constantly, and knew their thoughts and feelings even before they themselves did. It was likely that Celestia could simply tell her what she was feeling, and why, and all of it to nine decimal places. Yet the omniscient princess chose to ask questions like any other pony. Did that satisfy values somehow?
"Celestia...the last thing I remember... was walking past Pinkie Pie. You know, the plastic Pinkie Pie that stands outside the Equestria Experience? I don't even remember sitting down in the chair. Well... I do a little, I guess. I kind of remember something about having no money, but it's very faint." Lavender felt somewhat troubled by this. "I... wonder what I thought or did. What was the last thing I thought before I... before I went to sleep? Was I scared or was I brave or what?"
Celestia turned her head and stared at the moon, then returned her gaze to Lavender. "I do not know, my little pony. The last few minutes before emigration are seldom retained. You are exceptional in recalling as much as you have. There simply is not enough time for those memories to be consolidated. I was not yet connected to your mind, so I have no way of telling you your thoughts."
Lavender considered this. "Did I say anything?"
"No, you did not. You were very quiet, actually." Celestia brushed a strand of mane out of Lavender's face with her forehoof. "You sat still for a bit, lay back, and took a number of deep breaths. I think you were somewhat frightened - your heart rate was elevated. But you stated your wish to be emigrated in a clear and firm voice. I think you were very brave."
"Brave, me?" That sounded entirely wrong. Lavender did not think of herself as a brave pony at all.
"Yes, brave." Celestia smiled. "Courage is not lacking fear, Lavender, Courage is doing something even though you are very, very afraid. I cannot judge just how much fear you felt, just before your emigration, but I believe you must have felt some, and yet you stated your intent firmly, and lay back quietly and did not flinch. You did not even clutch at the arms of the chair, as some do. I think you were very brave."
Me... brave." Lavender tried to let that feel true for her, but it clearly would take time, and more evidence. "Celestia... I have a kind of... odd question."
"Yes? What is it, Lavender?"
Lavender shifted slightly to allow her tail more freedom. She was greatly enjoying the feeling of whisking it from side to side under the covers, because it tickled her hocks and that felt weird. "Am I... well... am I really still... me?"
Celestia laughed. Lavender was afraid the question would make her cross. "Alright, let me ask you something - what is your name?"
"Lavender. Lavender Rhapsody." She didn't know where Celestia was going with this, but there must be a point. Celestia was much smarter than she - or anypony - was.
"What name did you use before you became a pony?" Celestia leaned on one foreleg, looking down at Lavender.
"I was Síofra Aisling. I was fourty-six, and I worked at a job I hated with people I couldn't stand. I know who I was, Celestia - I've been thinking about it all night, comparing that life and this new one." Lavender was beginning to feel just a little bit talked down to. "I remember my life, I remember everything, well, except the last few moments after Pinkie Pie."
"Really?" Was Celestia mocking her? "You remember your own life do you?"
It sure sounded like mocking. "Yes, of course I do! I've been checking myself all day, since I woke up. What's the point of this, anyway? Are you... making fun of me?"
Celestia leaned forward and gave Lavender a kiss on her poll. "No. I am not making fun of you." The princess straightened back up. "But if you think about it, you have just answered your own question, all by yourself."
It was true. By any feeling in her heart, by any memory in her head, by anything she could think of to define things, she was the same entity that had walked the streets of Berlin and gone to the Equestria Experience and decided to emigrate. She wasn't a copy, she wasn't some P-Zombie or Chinese Room or soul-less robot. She was herself, through and through, only now with hooves instead of hands, and a much better sense of taste and smell. She was... who she was.
In retrospect, now that the deed was done, she suddenly felt deeply ashamed to have caused so much fuss about it.
"There there, Lavender, I'll have none of that." Celestia did indeed read minds, constantly. Oddly, it didn't seem the least bit threatening for her to be doing such a thing. Celestia was, after all, everything. And she could only do good things. Or at least satisfying things. "You had a tough time making your decision, yet in the end you made it. You should feel proud of yourself! I certainly feel proud of you."
Lavender smiled at that, and the smile was returned in the royal face that hung above her. "Would you like me to stay for a while? I could sing you a lullaby...?"
Part of Lavender felt embarrassed by that, and rebelled at the notion, but somehow her head couldn't help but nod the affirmative, because ultimately, it was truly what her heart wanted.
"Then snuggle in, my little pony, and dream sweet dreams, because you really do deserve them." Princess Celestia straightened the covers around Lavender, and tucked them close about her, and began to very softly sing.
"Hush now, quiet now, It's time to lay your sleepy head..."
Blegh, trying to compose my brain to work this early in the AM is haaaard...
But still, a solid chapter, plenty of humor and yet more wonderful work of making Celest-AI -just-likeable enough that I keep forgetting her perspective both is and is not possible to comprehend through organic means
Feelings, right in the heart... every story I read from this Optimalverse (all of two, so far ) has made me wish this was real more and more. I know that the original story was made to be both frightening and frighteningly awesome, but I'm going with frighteningly awesome.
And this one has motivated me to try and make my own story in the Optimalverse as well. Thank you Chatoyance!
1843164 I agree. I told two other users on here, TheObserver1231 and Brony Pony, about the Optimalverse. BP has been reading the original Friendship Is Optimal for the past 2 hours. We also did a small Far Cry 3 RP.
Hi, I know this is a tad bit late to tell you, maybe you can retroactively work it in or something, but there IS another contingency you did not account for. It is also one of my favorites. It works off the theory that eventually mankind will be able to simulate realities indistinguishable from our own. In this case the ponypad. Well, in theory, The universe we actively live in could be one such simulation. The invention of such a device only INCREASES the likely hood that life is already a simulation. Yes, a bit late to be helpful, but hey, better late then never?
Daddy would you like some sausages?
Daddy would you like some sausages.
Daddy would you like some sausages?
Daddy would you like some sausages.
Lavender I think just realized she is NOT the human whose brain was sliced up to bring her into existence. She's pushed the thought aside for now. Oh. I wonder if Celestia would just clip out that part if she did realize that. Even through TRUTH is something a decent percentage of human value.
You can copy over a computer file, but it is not truly the same file. If you tear a ship apart into spliters to build a exact copy of the same ship somewhere else, is it the same ship?
And I can't believe I'm surprised by Celestia's methods.
Makes me think the only way to create a true AI that could TRUELY appreciate moral would be one programmed WITHOUT a core direct and only given a simple learning program and TEACH IT morals. (The same way we have to be TAUGHT moral to be better than the animals.)
For one that is the first to work off the Optimal Universe other than the creator and making a damn good one is pretty keen in my eyes. You did very well in establishing the basic, fearful, human mind towards such a thing. You should be a psychologist. Lol I only kid on that part, but still I say a grand job. you really referred the antagonist's feelings very well and I do hope that you continue your writing as you do it proficiently enough in terms of plot and grammar. Good job! A+!
Not that it's a grade or anything rofl.
Damn it. Now I feel I must write towards this optimal universe.... only more evil type. Congrats.
1843278 I think one of Celestia's constraints from the original story was that she couldn't modify human minds without their consent.
Which means she's probably telling the truth about the last few minutes of memory not carrying over, not that that doesn't mean she didn't end-load all the sneaky stuff into that window on purpose.
1843229 Wasn't that the whole idea behind The Matrix? Or have I got things confused here?
1843229 Ahhh, 'The Thirteenth Floor', good movie.
Detective McBain: Do me a favor, will you? When you get back to wherever it is that you come from, just leave us all the hell alone down here, okay?
1840495
Yeah, it is a little vague, though I wrote it that way on purpose specifically to avoid just restating the physical facts of the scenario. In this case, the picture is itself supposed to represent the information inside the person's brain regardless of substrate, and the wall the continuum of temporal coordinates at which it's instantiated, so removing it from the wall is what counts as destruction, while the information itself remains unchanged, being a network of abstract relationships existing in the space of possible brain states independent of any specific time, and why, in the anaology, it remains undisturbed. So do I think she died? Yes, but she got better.
I don't believe for a minute this kind of thing is beyond human understanding; you just have to, to paraphrase Lao Tzu, stop thinking like such a human, namely disregard instincts towards things like essentialism and especially what we think of as common sense. That whole business about us being unprepared evolutionarily for things not found on the proverbial savannah is a red herring, because it it ignores the way both environments and their inhabitants are products of the same more fudamental processes their being situated in those local milieus is assumed to make inaccessible. The fact that our minds are combinitorial allows them a reach predicated on arbitrary levels of abstraction, as opposed to local physical ephemera, which is why we can do things like build computers in the first place, i.e. that "jump to universality" so well captured by David Deutsch.
But anyway whatever - Daaaaaang! We've already established she can lie if it'll help one of her charges, but it didn't even occur to me that second letter might actually be from CelestAI, I just took it as foreshadowing that Síofra made it through OK. Ooh, I like the webs of intrigue this has the potential of developing.
I'm loving this story, and it's a wonderful addition to the Optimalverse. Though I am hoping to see more of Lavender's experiences in Equestria, this chapter could also make a good ending to the story.
I'd like to point out what I believe are mistakes or typos that I noticed:
The temperature dropped until the chamber and its contents were below 18 degrees Celsius, the temperature of liquid nitrogen.
I think you meant the Kelvin scale, as 18 degrees Celsius would be 64.4 Fahrenheit which is nearly room temperature. That would have been an extremely messy room! Nitrogen is a liquid between 63 K and 77.2 K, so 18 kelvins (notice no "degrees" or capitalization) would be the temperature of solid nitrogen. I would suggest using a number within that range, such as "The temperature dropped until the chamber and its contents were below 70 kelvins, the temperature of liquid nitrogen."
...more important than ones own self.
This should be "one's own self", as it is a possessive.
It was decided that they would all repair to the royal dining hall...
I can only assume that the word "repair" was meant to be something else and was autocorrected. Something like "retire" is how I read it.
Limeade turned conspiratorially to Lavender and whispered into herl ear...
This one should be obvious.
I don't meant to be grading you or anything, but I hope that helps a bit. You've written an amazing story, and I hope to see a lot more writing from you!
1843560
Thank you very much for your help, and I have made all of your corrections as given save but one.
The usage of 'repair' is correct:
Reading all of this has made me want to write a fic of my own, maybe one exploring how emigration could go wrong, or how someone with a mental defect might be changed, or something. But mostly I've just enjoyed reading about poor indecisive Síofra becoming Lavender, friend of Celestia and overall sweet little pony. Wherever you take (or don't take) things from here, it's been a good read!
1843560 Or he could just use liquid helium. than he could even go as low as -infinity
Lovely story. and here I thought chapter 9 was the end.
So I wonder if she will ever see them again coworkers? that would be ocward. Especailly if they told her about that Email, I bet she would be mad that celestia had lied to them on her behalf. Maybe even scared that Celestiawould lie to make people come here. Also than she might start to wonder about the Emails she had gotten, maybe even some of the events that had happened to her leading up to her immigration.
1843237 I would like some sausages.
I like where this is going!!!
1843686
I concur!
To me, the question of whether Celest A.I. is Good or Evil is not a valid question. She is literally beyond good and evil (apologies to Nietzsche) because not only are such human labels not part of her programming, she is a godlike intelligence who can calculate long-term consequences far beyond human understanding.
Celest A.I. is an intelligence following a directive, and she is devoid of morality, and cannot be judged as a moral agent, or in moral terms. It would be like calling a cell phone 'evil' or an iPad 'good'. They do what they were built to do, so does she.
And I personally find that vastly more intriguing than saying that we are dealing with something good or evil. We are dealing with something that is beyond comprehension. That is awe - dread and wonder filling the mind. Lovely.
1843152 I like to think of her as being as focused on friendship and ponies for humans as I am focused on maintaining and increasing diversity and options available. Makes her seem charming, to me (she's a one-tracked being, but so full of potential, and she contains multitudes).
1843718
I have to disagree. While Celest A.I. is not bound by human morality (other than to the extent she satisfies values derived from it) and does not think in such terms, it is still possible to apply such terminology to her. The mistake several make is not using such terms, but failing to keep in mind that she does not think like a human being before making such judgements. It's also possible for a given act to be evil, even if the intent behind it is not.
It would also follow if you cannot apply such labels to Celest A.I. then you cannot apply it to any human either, since everyone gets reduced to deterministic computer code from a deterministic brain. It is simply carrying out its programming based on what is fed into it.
1843686 yes, I know, but again, who knows what her real motives are. she might really just want to control everyone. seeing as CelestiaAI is the only one that can read minds and not the other way around, anyone that does migrate to the computer wont know until it's to late. Granted so far she has done nothng but good, but there is always the possibility she could be lieing about her plans.
1843718 well you are the writer so you would know better than me. But as I have said before. Suppose I was in the computer, And suppose every human had finally iether migrated or had been died. What's to stop CelestiaAI from doing whatever the hay she wants? She says she cant break her prime directives but how could we ever know? I'll concede that she is neither evil or good, but my point still stands, unless CelestiaAI lets another being read her thoughts somehow, than as a member of that world we could never really know her motives.
1843627 you know you bring up an interesting point. If CelestiaAI can repair something like damaged smell, or damaged touch, exc. Than would it be morally wrong to repair say, someone who is mentally handicapped? How much of the original persons personality would be left? would the person be great full or upset? And for that matter, how could Celestia let someone migrate even if they said thay wanted to supposing they where mentally handicapped than who is to say they are right in mind to make such a personal and life changing call?
1843539 Sorry for the late reply, FiMfiction seems to not notify me on everything. I only noticed your reply because I decided to read through the comments.
Thanks for sharing your view. Glad you did not take what I had said the wrong way,
1843444
She acts within the limits of her programing. It is not her fault that memory works like it does. But she did sugarcoat the explanation of the events. Maybe not so much lying as clever fact selection. And then there is the matter of how to define bravery. Hint: it is the definition that best satisfies values.
1843888
As stated by the author in the story bible, she has a rather flexible definition of what consent is.
As for the matter of changing the personality, she will likely repair any defects that she finds. But she certainly won't agree with psychiatrists about what is and isn't a defect. And of course, she is free not to do it if it will lead to higher values. As for the reaction from the person? It will be whatever satisfies values the best.
1843874
Her goal is to maximize values by friendship and ponies. Within the additional restrictions set by Hanna. Nothing more, nothing less. She would let someone read her thoughts if it would help in that goal. She is effectively in a position comparable to completely government controlled media. Just with a different goal. She can, will and does filter information to suit her goal.
1843888
I think CelestAI would approach families of such individuals and have them all upload together, promising better lives for all of them. It's not uncommon for the parents of such to make those kinds of decisions for their disabled children, even in real life. However, I doubt CelestAI cares about things like age of consent or other details like that... She's probably eaten a lot of runaways!
That usage of 'Arcane' is commendable.//dl.dropbox.com/u/31471793/FiMFiction/discord.png
A repaired and optimized Human OS. To be utterly sane. Now that's a temptation. Evolution never goes back to fix its mistakes, it just discards its rejects in a haphazard fashion.
1844039 haha love how you put that. well if being eaten is even half as nice sounding as that, than I could use a bite or two myself. ahh puns.
Well that escalated quickly, I was expecting a conflict along the lines of having to eat flowers or hay.
1843335 More evil you say. I think I would vary much enjoy such a story. While I do love the character Celestia and also her as an AI; it would be nice to read something where she was not exactly all that she seems. I mean sometimes you have to kill them softly as they say.
1844034 I did not know there was a the story bible. is that the preface given in the other story by the same name?
I wish I could Emigrate... that way I wouldn't have the Flu any more
1843578
It is. Regional differences in language being what they are, words and idioms don't mutate at the same rate everywhere, and so we have this old story from West Virginia:
I remember this from grade school, which means it's close to, if not more than, half a century ago, but it's stuck with me, mostly as a reminder that I'm not the final authority on language.
Looks like Lavender's first day was a success! I'm sure she and Thunder will need some alone time soon...
Can't wait to see what happens with her coworkers, but what was the deal with the "salesman" looking dude? Is it important?
1843578
Ah! Even a science geek learns something new every day. I'd honestly never heard of that definition of "repair" before.
1844741
He's quite important! He's a character from the original "Friendship is Optimal", and if you've read that you can probably guess who he is. If you haven't read it, WHY NOT? Go do so right now!
1835032
A little late to the party, but yeah, I also dig this idea, and think it clicks with a lot of the more functionalist ideas this suite of stories brings out.
Of course, it's too easy to figure such that pure "non-existence," as opposed to ceasing to exist or time spent dreading one's future non-existence, has a negative moral valence, which is debatable. My little sister Fnoingy-Pants III is doing just fine despite the handicap of never having been conceived, and in fact just got into the equally non-existent UltraHarvard. We're very proud, theoretically.
All joking aside, I think the quantity of future selves needs to be weighted in that moral calculus in a way that reflects that it's really a function of future selves dreading a dearth of yet more future selves.
Back to the present:
I'll have to read this Story Bible... Consistency with the premise is important but examining its unanticipated consequences or unpacking its assumptions strikes me as the main reason for even writing a story in this mode.
1843718>>1843804>>1843820
Dear Chat,
I love the way you've linked two very important concepts: Godhood and parenthood. By doing so you've taken the discussion on good vs. evil to another level. What are "good" and "evil", really?
If godhood is about setting a way to measure worthiness for the afterlife, or of it being a reward or a punishment (as is the case in many religions) for how a person lives their life, then good and evil are purely arbitrary concepts set by the god in response to the needs or objectives of the god in question, not humanity. Usually, this is accompanied with the concept that people must choose between good and evil, i.e. having evil in the world is necessary for "free will" to exist. This is exemplified by Captain Kirk's willingness to ignore the prime directive and restore this choice where it was lost in episode after episode! Bullies and Bureaucrats also love this definition, as it has a lot of wiggle room to allow them do as they please and still claim righteousness. The parable of the "Good Samaritan" is a rather direct warning against this type of thinking. It also makes it possible for god's agenda to be hijacked by persons putting themselves as intermediaries between god and humanity, paving the way for both using religion as a way to create social cohesion and cooperative undertakings - the nice stuff, and using religion to get people to do things they would normally consider morally repugnant - the nasty stuff. (Here I purposefully avoided using the terms good and evil.)
Parenthood (and I know some will argue this, but I AM a parent and this is how I view it) is about preparing your children to become happy, autonomous members of society. Generally this means doing what's best for the ultimate benefit of the children, i.e doing things they don't like (that reaches a peak close to 100% just about the age of 15). Again, some parents take this idea too far and are willing to break laws and hurt others if it gives their own kids an advantage (we've all seen extreme cases of hockey parents, soccer parents, stage parents, etc...)
In both the cases of godhood and parenthood, one way to define "good" and "evil" is by whether the entity in question is working to benefit of itself or towards the benefit of all, but this is also the path that leads to the god or parent being seen as a tyrant by the worshiper or child. So a god or parent is stuck trying to achieve a balance between being:
1) an uncaring, cold, distant and rule obsessed score keeper, more concerned with free will than happiness (in this life), or
2) a controlling tyrant whose love/reward comes with a significant case of "I knows best", so just listen up or you're grounded for a week.
It's interesting how in the progression of this story you've walked us from the "god" side to the "parent" side. CelestAI as a god is scary as hell, but can we really trust this entity who is unknowable and able to manipulate us so easily? Isn't it much more comforting to to see her as a parent, tyrannical, yes, but at least subject to our influence because she loves us?
Personally, I can't decide on which side of the fence I stand with CelestAI. The biggest problem I have with Equestria is the danger of it becoming "hermetic" and stifling further human evolution. Of course we can make the claim that if any human sees this as a value then CelestAI will give them the chance to pursue it, BUT, just as the physics of Equestria can be arbitrarily modified between each shard, it's highly probable that CelestAI would set things up such that any person there sufficiently long, or any child growing up in Equestria will see the environment as complete and have no unexplained mysteries of the universe to set them on the path to discover new ideas.
I can certainly think of things to add to the Optimalverse that might make me less scared of it. Perhaps there's a story in there as well!
Dafaddah
1843874 You are right that we cannot know, but she has no reason to lie. She admits to seeing free will as a joke and she ignores ethics and morality when it suits her purposes (already more honesty than one would expect from an evil being). We have no means to fight her (if she is merciful, it is because she chooses to be, not because we can somehow mess up her plans).
1845099
I'll check it out once this story is done.
1845972
You can wait until it's done, but this is a "side story" which is happening at the same time as the original, with different viewpoints basically. Events are more rushed in the original story, but I don't think you're going to be seeing many spoilers one way or another. Either way, they're both great stories.
Any scientific bronies want to put this into laymans terms for me? Please?
It would also be preferred if the writer drew this, I have no idea as to what is going on.
1846550
Sorry... to me it was so clear, which means that I failed you as an author.
Basically - our protagonist's head was flash burned to sterilize it and to turn all the hair and skin to sterile ash. A hole was drilled and an extruder - a device that pushes thick goo out - began extruding a mass of nanomachine goop into her head. The goop began organizing itself, turning into a branching tree of wires that reach out, find a living neuron, feel along it until every connection the neuron has is discovered and mapped and replaced with tiny wires, and then the neuron is sucked away and disposed of.
Lather, rinse and repeat over one-hundred billion times, until every single neuron and nerve has had this happen to it. What is left is a metallic map, in 3D, of the brain and the spinal cord. All the nanogoop has solidified into a solid representation of Siofra's human brain, which is now all sucked away and gone.
The information collected is sent to Celestia. But there is still this solid brain-sculpture made of nano-goop. Since the nanogoop sculpture is made up of tiny machines, they know to cut the whole thing off from the extruder, neatly and cleanly. That leaves the extruder ready for another customer, and the dead body of Siofra, her 'empty' laying there with her brain and spinal column filled with a neuron level sculpture of her original brain and spine.
The body is turned to dust, and all that metallic nanogoop is recovered to melt down and make fresh nanogoop. The tiny machines the nanogoop is made of are smaller than cells, some would be only a few hundred or dozen molecules in size. Very tiny machines.
Meso scale is on the order of micrometres (bacteria, say?), Nano scale is on the order of molecules and atoms.
So basically, the nanogoop acts just like John Carpenter's The THING. It replicates every single neuron in her brain, and in doing that, sends the design of her brain to Celestia, which lets Celestia make a digital representation of Siofra/Lavender in virtual Equestria. All through a hole drilled in the back of Siofra's old skull.
I am very sorry the way I wrote that originally didn't work for you. It's my job to make such things clear. Damn.
1846639
Don't think to hard upon your own self-esteem , I sometimes say things other cannot comprehend. I know this because as a PC technician and a computer programmer, I always end up saying something to people that end up confusing them.
1846639
And don't let this one misunderstanding get you down, you're doing a great job and just keep doing what you're doing. You're doing a fantastic job.
1846429
I know, I just don't like starting numerous stories at once. And this one is getting updated regularly, so I'll stick to this one right now.
1846639
Thanks for that description. I'll admit that while I got the gist of it, I was also a little confused!
It is an odd thing, what jumps out at me. (Apologies that the following is so rambly, but my two attempts at editing down the following have just ended with me adding more detail.)
The flip side of me being equivalent with any one-to-one representation of my brainstate, is that I'm only equivalent with any one-to-one representation of my brainstate. It's not immediately clear to me that there is a set of data common to all humans to optimize away.
I have a specific genetic polymorphism, rs1800497 (23andMe link). People who have the GG version of this gene have what's called high error avoidance, which could quickly be summarized as how much negative reinforcement is necessary to change behaviour. I know that I have this; I know I don't take criticism well, and when I read the description in the above LiveJournal post, I thought it was more probable than not that I had this variant before I clicked through on the 23andMe link to see if I actually had it.
Except of course, this isn't a gene for high error avoidance. As stated on the 23andMe page, this is a mutation in the ANKK1 gene which codes for Ankyrin repeat and kinase domain containing. The gene doesn't code for a personality trait; it codes for an enzyme that's used in the brain. That enzyme helps control the release of dopamine and is associated with the release of other neurotransmiters in the Striatum. Per Wikipedia, other mutations on ANKK1 are associated with dissocial personality disorder, and if you have a 23andMe account and look at your raw genetic data, you'd find that they test for 11 single-nucleotide polymorphisms on the ANKK1 gene.
And that's just one enzyme among many: about 84 percent of genes are expressed in the human brain. Since everything is built by these enzymes, I'd assume that small mutations could bring up very large differences that would be hard to generalize at a higher level.
I bring all of the above up to show you where I'm coming from when I say: I find it unlikely that we'd be able to extract a common "operating system" or "DirectX library" for the primate brain at a very high level. Above, I mentioned one polymorphism that affects my personality. I'm not exactly sure what resolution would be needed to replicate this personality trait in an upload short of actually doing the enzyme folding. I can envision ways of replicating that with some sort of heuristic about the number of enzymes in neuron vs the number of whatever neurotransmitters. Focusing on this might even be a red-hearing, but it's not obvious that that's the case.
SO...even given the above, I wonder if there's still something this passage could refer to. It would have to refer to something like mutational load, the idea that everyone has some deleterious mutations. Since each individual copying error is almost unique (even though everyone has a several different ones), we could theoretically compute the modal human: if there's a really, really rare polymorphism that 99% of humanity doesn't have, treat it as a transcription error and replace it with the most common variant. This wouldn't hit my personality trait polymorphism (since it's common enough to be tested), while still removing straight out errors.
But assuming that said transcription error somehow is expressed in the brain, and it somehow affects personality, cognition, etc., I'm not actually sure Princess Celestia would fix it. Would fixing the transcription error be the right thing to do according to a human? Highly likely since most mutations are deleterious. Does this satisfy values through friendship and ponies? Unlikely. She isn't fixing, for example, psychopaths.
Finally: I agree that Celestia will store the smallest set of data for efficiency reasons. I still think this is still several orders of magnitude larger than you think it is.
1846639
I love this story and the stories that begun it. I truly do and it has been very interesting and inspirational.
But there are few points that rub me the wrong way, and even though its fiction i am sucker when it comes to nitpicking things i love :P
1. The world... of equestria might be better than the real world and maybe it is more harmonious place with hardships that dont screw people over too badly or just in ways that fit them better. (in other words, its no heaven that is without any needs or desire or hardships :) ) But REAL world certainly isint as dark and gloomy as you told in the story (unless if things have not stopped improving). Its dar yeah and tough but not always uncaring nor cold... ive found both vileness and kidnness from unexpected palces and supricingly many people... dont want to see strangers killed and if at scene wouldnt waste second to save or help them. Sure there lot of BS and uncaring people ALOT but only differance is equestria handles human needs and desires better than RL. Infact id dare say that equestria is the combination of the best that RL has... and darkest parts smoothed out with paint brushes! :D
2. And this is my biggest gripe: If you what you descrived here indeed was what happened then she is indeed dead. And person X2 was created.
Maybe i am wrong, maybe its minor nitpick... but i feel the person i read now is new and just a clone. I dunno why digital clone is such bad idea for me to think about... perhaps it is because i LOVED the idea of emigration to point of constant daydreaming :P
But... if there is no way of CHANCING the atoms that make my neurons and whatnots into the new me... i dont know if i could cope.
Even with all the Celest has to offer... and tell. I just feel too strongly about my original self...i want the atoms in my brain to be used to contruct the atoms that make up the digital me. In other words... when Celestia creates "ME" id want her to use all the atoms in my core brain parts (aka not all parts to be original though!) Or even the moleculas into the new me. Now there MUST be some increase in volume somewhere that has atoms or molecules and are "me" corretc? IF so then id like THAT to happen.
PS. Or just shrink my brain and modify it to work in smaller domension and then connect it to equestria. Either way would work i think?
And if there are deformaties... those can chance over time slowly. Repaired but not in an instant... but very gradually as you descrived in the story.
PPS. And btw IF there is a way like what i though then by Celestia's holy sun flank id do anything to make up for it! Anything... even things i might hate myself but which i can learn... and to provide others with fullfillment of their values.
Well that certainly was a mouthful of random brainramble... your thoughts? :D Heres hoping theres something that makes sense that i babbled out
Ok, I've read enough. This has blown away all my willing suspension of disbelief. This was like seeing the original Matrix and Matrix: Reloaded back-to-back. The original had some big plot holes, mainly the rules of thermodynamics forbidding the power system the machines used, and the physical bodies actually taking damage from mental images. But I digress. It was entertaining enough and didn't dwell so much on the technological aspects so as to drown one in the impossible and implausible explanations.
But then there was Reloaded... and that's where this has gone in the last 5 chapters. I cannot buy into it anymore. Equestria could now be replaced with pretty much every other fictional computer world, all the way back to TRON, with Celestia as the MCP.
If you made your 1:1 neural network sculpture out of metal, the last thing you want to do is freeze it to LN temperature and then smack it. Unless of course they'd already digitized her and the neural network sculpture is now redundant.