Chapter 13
"Where are you Twilight Sparkle?" Luna asked aloud as she searched the black void she suddenly found herself in. It appeared Twilight's capabilities were more advanced than she thought if she was able to conceal herself so.
"Who's there?" A strange but oddly familiar voice called out, tinged with fright.
Luna turned to the voice's source, a shadowy figure a few paces away. She approached to find a small indigo alicorn with light blue mane and tail and a crescent moon cutie mark. It was the spitting image of her weakened state after being cleansed by the Elements of Harmony, and it was staring up at her in fear.
"S-Stay away! Leave me alone you monster! You won't take me again! Not again! I'm not you!" the construct choked out in a pathetic teary mess. Annoyed and somewhat insulted by whatever this was supposed to be, Luna fired a quick beam of magic and her counterpart shattered with a scream into dozens of shards that reformed themselves into a mirror. Reflected in its surface was the visage of Nightmare Moon.
"Really?" Luna paused, surprised at the sudden shift in her voice to a much deeper timbre . She looked down to see her new taller and leaner figure, her fur now a deep midnight black.
Well now, this IS interesting. Changing another dreamwalker's appearance against their will.
Her surprise only grew as attempts to revert her appearance failed.
We're going to have a lengthy discussion about this in the Canterlot dungeons.
"What is this? Are you seriously attempting to ensnare ME in a nightmare?"
The void faded, replaced by the streets of Ponyville. Ponies ran in terror, cries of 'Nightmare Moon!' filling the air. Rank amateur work from top to bottom. Nothing compared to what she inflicted on herself each day.
"HAHAHAHA! Do you think this is clever? Do you expect me to cower and weep from this? Pathetic!"
Ponyville faded, replaced once again by the dark void.
"Let me guess, I suppose next I shall have to confront my sister?"
Right on cue, Celestia stepped out from the shadows. "Luna? Is that you? What happened?"
"Oh how insufferably predictable." She fired another beam of magic, intended to disperse the dream figment, but to her surprise it was only knocked off its hooves.
"OW! Luna! What are you doing?!"
"You're full of surprises today Twilight Sparkle. Your facsimiles are remarkably durable." She fired a second beam, only to have it deflected by a shield.
"Damnit Luna! Stop! It's me!"
"Much better than the last one at any rate."
"On your 238th birthday I dared you to eat a rock and you did! You were sick for a week!"
"...Celestia? But how? You are not able to enter dreams."
Celestia pulled herself back to her hooves and settled her feathers. "I picked up a couple things while you were gone. I'm not an expert, but I can handle the basics."
"Why are you here?"
"I came by your room to check on you. You've been in here a while, and I figured you could use some help."
Luna turned away, annoyance seeping into her voice. "I do not require checking up on like a fragile foal, and I do not require your assistance. I have the situation well under control."
"Luna, I just want to help you. Please."
"Fine. You may assist. But stay back and don't get in the way."
Celestia nodded. "Right. I'll follow your lead. And uh...one more thing. What's with all of....this?" She waved a hoof in Luna's direction. "Is that normal?"
"Fear not, I do not make a habit of traversing the dreamscape in the guise of Nightmare Moon. Twilight Sparkle has, through some unknown means, managed to force this appearance upon me, I assume in an attempt to unnerve me somehow. Now come on."
"Where are we going?"
"First we are getting out of this poor excuse of a nightmare."
Smoky tendrils rose from her ethereal mane to probe at the void around them, pushing at the seams and attempting to tear through. A firm yet ever weakening force pushed back against them. Twilight was finally growing tired. Her resolve losing strength. Now was the time to push on all fronts.
"I can feel you weakening, Twilight Sparkle. You can't hold me here much longer. Your nightmare was lacking. It seems you don't have a proper appreciation for what true terror is, but I'll be happy to show you once I find you. Mhahaha!" As much as she disliked this appearance being thrust upon her, she had to admit that Nightmare Moon's voice lent extra strength to ominous threats and sinister laughter. It had proved quite the effective persona for its purpose back when she had created it. Unfortunately, it worked a little too effectively judging by the sidelong looks Celestia was giving her.
At last the dam broke and the black void was blown away, replaced by the familiar grassy plain. Twilight was frantically trying to climb back onto her hooves, defenses shattered after being knocked prone by the blast. Luna seized the initiative. Her fangs stretched a few extra centimeters and her eyes widened while the pupils and irises constricted into points of bright green fire. The ambient light dimmed as she rushed forward, fangs bared, and thrust her face right up against Twilight's.
"RUN!"
Luna could feel the last of Twilight's lucidity crumble as fear and panic overwhelmed her. With her control gone, and awareness of her own dreaming rapidly fading, Twilight stumbled and fled in a blind rout. Her reign over the dream uncontested, Luna twisted the plain into darkened swamp. Thick, knee high muck sapped at Twilight's speed, while hidden roots caused her to trip and fall as she scrambled through claw like branches that scraped at her coat. Luna flew after her quarry, magically projecting her voice into a whisper in Twilight's ear.
"You can't escape. I've almost got you."
She sent a warm, damp breeze as a simulated breath to brush against the back of her target's neck. This spurred an extra burst of speed, followed by a series of blind teleports which ceased only when Twilight looked up to find that her horn was gone. As she felt frantically around her now empty forehead, a pair of rotting hooves burst up from the slime to grab at her back legs. She kicked free, but more rose up to grab at her legs and tail, pulling her further down into the dark muck. Up to her neck and spitting out mouthfuls of foul black liquid, Twilight managed to grab hold of a vine and pulled with all the strength she could manage. Slowly, she began to rise back out of the swamp. Just as she had pulled herself halfway out, the vine lashed itself around her midsection and yanked her up. Two more vines wrapped themselves around her back legs and flipped her over to dangle upside down above the reaching grasp of the rotting hooves below. Another vine wrapped around her neck and squeezed. Twilight choked and gasped, her front hooves slapping fruitlessly against the vine, unable to find any purchase to pry it off.
Spots danced in front of her eyes from the lack of oxygen and the hooves below brushed at her mane as the vines lowered her ever closer. Looking up, she could see the dark silhouette of Nightmare Moon approaching, fangs bared and gleaming. The pawing of her front hooves at her neck grew more feeble as strength drained from her limbs and darkness spread from the corners of her vision. Nightmare Moon was now face to face with her, jaw unhinging as the razor filled mouth spread to encircle her head.
"Luna! That's enough!" Celestia shouted.
The scenery flickered as Twilight's nearly closed eyes began to twitch open. Luna quickly tightened the vines and hit Twilight with a jolt of magic, sealing her in a crystal bubble of stasis. The swamp vanished, returned once again to the featureless plain. She turned to glare at Celestia, but was interrupted before she could speak.
"What was all that Luna?!"
"That, dear sister, was me working and you nearly rousing my target back to lucidity at the crucial moment!" Luna expected a sheepish apology in response, but got only accusations.
"But you were enjoying that! The laughing, the taunting..."
Luna bristled in response. "Theatrics are important to the task. I do not need to be lectured on how to fulfill my own duties by y-"
"No!" Celestia cut her off. "Are you seriously going to say that all of that was necessary? That that was the minimum amount of torture you had to put her through to trap her in that?" Celestia pointed to the crystal cocoon Twilight floated in. "There's no justifying that level of cruelty! You were out of control!"
That was the last straw.
"AND WHAT WOULD THOU KNOWEST OF OUR WORK!?" Dark thunder clouds formed in the sky and her mane and tail thrashed violently in the winds of a raging storm. Her eyes glowed a solid bright white. "THOU HAST NEVER IN MILLENNIA TAKEN INTEREST IN THE THANKLESS TASKS WE PERFORM TO KEEP EQUESTRIA SAFE! TOO BUSY SIPPING TEA WITH SYCOPHANTS AND BASKING IN ADORATION TO DIRTY YOUR HOOVES YOURSELF!"
Celestia attempted to affect a stern mask of calm, but Luna could see hints of fear betrayed in the corners of her eyes. No. Not fear. Concern. Squashing down her anger, Luna's eyes returned to normal and the clouds dispersed as the savage winds came to rest. She took a deep breath before speaking again.
"If your stomach remains too weak for such business, I advise you leave and collect your student." A scroll bearing coordinates materialized between them and floated toward Celestia. "I shall remain here and ensure that she does not wake until she is properly secured."
No further words were spoken as Celestia read over the coordinates, blinked, and disappeared from the dream. Luna turned back to her sleeping prisoner with a scowl. In truth, perhaps she had been a tad overzealous near the end. Perhaps not every element of that chase had been strictly necessary, and after Twilight had managed to slip through her hooves for so long, her temper had briefly gotten the better of her. She would be damned if she was going to admit that to Celestia now though. Not when she was being so unreasonable. Acting like she knew the first thing about dream magic and was in any position to chastise her like a disobedient foal.
At least Celestia was actually yelling for a change. It was better than her usual gentle condescension that set Luna's teeth on edge. It was bad enough before her banishment when she had occasionally been treated as a child for simply being the younger sister, but since her return there was that extra bit of caution. That sense that she was somehow too fragile to be spoken to plainly. That too harsh a word might send her into some kind of relapse. Next to that, shouting had been a welcome relief, until she saw that glint of pitying concern in Celestia's eyes.
Giving another growl of anger to herself, she summoned a pool of cool water to splash on her face. Looking down into the water, she saw a fanged reflection snarling back at her. Despite regaining full control of the dream, she had forgotten to change back amid all the excitement.
***
Two weeks had passed, and still they had hardly spoken more than a hoof-ful of words to each other. It was nothing to be overly concerned about. They had once had a spat in their younger days that resulted in not talking to one another for nearly five years. Special positions in the guard had been created to relay passive aggressive requests to pass various condiments during meals. As much as she still resented her sister's behavior however, her anger had cooled slightly and mixed with a modicum of sympathy after catching a glimpse of the mountain of paperwork Celestia was buried in.
Twilight was restrained in the most securely warded cell that could be found, watched at all times by no fewer than ten elite unicorn guards, but the proper arrangements for her trial were barely half complete. It seemed that the criminal justice system had grown significantly more complex in the past thousand years. This had been a tolerable development only because (to Celestia's credit) the crime rate had been so staggeringly low. An offense of this magnitude had not been committed for at least six centuries, and the specific law books regarding mind control magic required some translation from old Equestrian after they were found. Then there was the team of legal scholars debating whether Rainbow Dash's status as the Element of Loyalty qualified additional charges for both assault on a national treasure and tampering with national security, which would qualify as espionage.
Then there was the pressing concern of how to operate the Elements of Harmony sans Twilight. Celestia had been using every waking moment she could find, and quite a few that should have been non-waking, to research possible workarounds, either by forcing Magic to re-synch to another pony, or by somehow distributing its role amongst the other bearers. Sadly, the one pony most capable of handling such a task was Twilight Sparkle herself, and she was no longer speaking. She was barely eating, any fire of life long since gone from her dull gaze. Even without the focal element bearer gone, it would take a small miracle to get that group properly harmonized. Recent events had left morale at an all time low, even ignoring the state Rainbow Dash was in.
Rainbow Dash's recovery was an ongoing issue. The spell's effects had been successfully reversed, but there was quite a lot of trauma left to work through. She spent most of her days in some form of counseling. Somehow, between the trial preparation, her research, and her regular duties, Celestia found time to visit her each day.
And on top of all that, there were staggering numbers of changeling prisoners to process. Nopony could even agree whether they should be classified as criminals, prisoners of war, or 'enemy combatants', much less what should be done with them all. Creating facilities to physically hold them for now was challenge enough, but as most ponies involved were squeamish about watching prisoners starve to death, and generally didn't favor the alternative of mass executions that did far more than border on genocide, the question of how to ethically feed all these prisoners had become something of a hot button issue.
With that monumental workload on her shoulders, Luna found it increasingly difficult to stay angry with Celestia. Well no, that wasn't quite right. She could easily stay angry. Celestia's condescension and the way she walked on eggshells around her was still infuriating, still caused an occasional flare of temper, but she felt increasingly petty for brooding over it.
While making her customary dusk rounds of the castle, Luna paused in front of one of the many stained glass windows. It had been put in shortly after her return from the moon, commemorating the reunion of the two sisters. Azure tears of joy adorned the glass Celestia's face. Luna remembered their wetness in her mane as she had been pulled into that embrace. She gave a weary sigh.
She means well. My sister's stresses are many, and I should not add to them.
Still, she had offered her assistance and been rebuffed for her efforts. True she was not well versed enough in legal matters to help with the trial, nor, she had been told, was her bedside manner conducive to helping Rainbow Dash, but she was more than capable of easing the burden of Celestia's day to day duties. Yet still, her sister stubbornly refused to trust her with increased responsibilities, just as she had for the past several years ever since her return. The theoretical 'equal diarchy' that ruled Equestria was the subject of numerous jokes, albeit ones nopony would dare utter outside of whispers behind closed doors. Luna took a deep breath and held it. Counting to ten as she attempted to quell the latest flare of anger.
Tell her. Tell her everything. An honest discussion. Get it all out in the open and make her understand exactly how what she is doing is hurting you. She DOES care. She will understand if you can just find a way to explain it without shouting.
Exhaling slowly, Luna set off in search of Celestia. First an apology, and then a long overdue conversation. Unfortunately, she was proving surprisingly hard to find. She wasn't in her chambers, the libraries, or the kitchens. Finally she managed to stop a passing guard.
"You there. Where is our sister? We would speak with her."
The guard gave a quick bow. "The last I saw Princess Celestia, she was assembling the Element Bearers in conference room A."
A spark of hope. Perhaps Celestia had finally solved the issue of the Elements. If so, that was cause for great relief. After thanking the guard and sending him on his way, she made her way to the conference room. She prepared to enter, but paused upon hearing her name.
"-and you really think Luna....you think she might...?" she heard in Applejack's distinctive drawl.
The reply came in Celestia's voice. "I honestly don't know, but she has become....unstable. Prone to frequent outbursts. I fear it has only grown worse in recent days. That's why, now that I've been able to successfully reattune with the Element of Magic, I ask that you all stay here at the castle for the time being. Just to be safe."
Luna's vision blurred with tears. This couldn't be happening. She couldn't believe what she was hearing. That Celestia would go behind her back like this. But no, that was so very Celestia. Ever plotting, scheming, manipulating, and nigh incapable of handling anything in a straightforward and honest manner.
"I advise you all to be cautious. In her current state, I'm afraid Luna could be-"
"DANGEROUS?!" Luna shouted as she kicked open the door. Six pairs of eyes snapped to her. Celestia looked as if she had been caught with a hoof in the cookie jar. "That's what you were going to say wasn't it?! That I'm dangerous?! A wild beast that needs to be observed, placated, and possibly put down for everypony's safety?!
"L-LUNA! I swear I can explain!"
"I'm sure you can! You were always quite the diplomat! I'm sure you can find some way to twist this act of betrayal so that you are entirely blameless and I'M the one being unreasonable!"
"Please! Don't take this pers-"
"DON'T TAKE THIS PERSONALLY?! HOW IS ONE MEANT TO TAKE IT WHEN ONE'S KIN CONSPIRES AGAINST THEM IN THEIR OWN HOME?!"
"Luna please. Calm down," Celestia calmly pleaded as she placed a hoof on Luna's shoulder.
No. She had a right to be angry over this. Celestia was wrong. She had no right to ask for calm and act like she was the mature and sensible one here. No right to pull that same tired, condescending, holier than thou crap. Not now.
"DON'T TOUCH ME!"
Luna lashed out with a front hoof. Though she only meant to knock her sister's hoof away from her shoulder, she misjudged the distance and connected with Celestia's face. Celestia stumbled under the force of the blow and a small amount of blood trickled from the corner of her mouth. With alicorn regeneration it was hardly a scratch, but in their millennia of life, for all their sisterly quarrels, the two of them had only ever drawn blood on one occasion. Luna was too livid to care about that at the moment.
A collective gasp went up from the other five occupants of the room. Applejack, Rainbow Dash, Fluttershy, Pinkie Pie, and Rarity all placed themselves between her and Celestia and assumed combat stances.
"What? No! You-you can't possibly take her side on this! Can't you see she's in the wrong here?! WHY WON'T ANYPONY LISTEN TO ME?!!"
Luna stomped in frustration, splintering the hardwood flooring. A nearby lamp exploded from magical pressure. The five ponies jumped backward. She could see the pendants around their necks start to glow.
"NO! STOP!"
The glow intensified as a rainbow threaded its way between them, lifting them off the ground. Behind them a tearful Celestia donned a tiara.
"NO!"
A rainbow wave rose and crashed into her. She closed her eyes against the searing bright light.
"NOOOOOO!!!"
When the light passed she was alone in deafening silence. She opened her eyes to a sterile white plain, eerily beautiful in its oppressive emptiness. One visible feature marked the impossibly barren landscape from where she stood. A massive series of short lines scratched into the ground. Tick marks. Exactly three hundred and sixty five thousand of them.
Luna opened her mouth to scream, but the airless environment produced no sound, leaving only the old familiar silence. It never stopped her from trying.
***
Twilight let the magic fade from her horn with a sigh of relief. She looked up at Princess Luna, frozen in place, staring blankly ahead with dark purple flames lapping at the corners of her eyes. Her irises and sclerae glowed a sickly red and green. With Luna temporarily incapacitated, she was now free to continue with the rest of the plan. Hopefully this was the hard part and it would be relatively easy going from here. Twilight waved a hoof and summoned the door, closing it gently behind her as she stepped out into the dreamscape.
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Good example of Badflank Twilight, and I knew all the way through the chapter that this was Twi orchestrated.
Now she just has to rescue Dash before they lobotomize her. Why can't they just leave it alone?
I knew it! From the part where Celestia used the rock thing to prove her identity, because she had told Twilight that story. Everything also went down way too easily.
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What? I don't remember Twilight ever being told that story. Are you thinking of a different fic? That Celestia knows the story because this is playing out inside of Luna's head (instead of just Twilight's) so it can draw from her memories for what it needs.
... that was awesome.
I had difficulty controlling my enthusiasm while reading this. I may have actually broken my chair. Bravo.
... crap, I'm gonna need an allen wrench.
holy... FUCK!
Just wanted to let you know about my unbridled excitement to see this have not one, but two new chapter updates.
This is by far my favorite currently updating fic on the site. The constant confrontations always have me on the edge of my seat, the sleuthing around is always tense, you've got these wonderful surprises like Discord. And most of all I'm practically exploding with apprehension about Dash and Twilight's ultimate fates. Seriously, I have no idea what you're going to do with them, and the very thought that there's even a chance Dash might be subjected to some kind've mind-recombobulating surgery before this is all over...I have no eloquent way to put it except that it makes me furious.
But it's a good kind of anger - the kind that makes me hope beyond anything else that something happens to prevent that. That Dash will escape or be rescued, and she, Twilight, Applejack, and Fluttershy will be able to get everything out in the open, and come what may after that. To be honest, I'm mostly rooting that, somehow, Dash and Twilight have a happy ending together after all this. But that's part of what makes this story so great - given the tone of the story, I feel the end really could land anywhere between surprisingly okay and catastrophically terrible. That kind of uncertainty is a large part of why I anticipate updates for this story so much.
Wherever this story goes though, I look forward to it with unrestrained enthusiasm.
Holy Fuck. That was unbelievable! Holy shit! What a twist!
Still loving this story. Also teal deer....bwahaha.
That was awesome, predictable, but very awesome
6296062 I might be. I could swear there was a conversation about Celestia and Luna eating rocks at one point, but I don't remember when, so it could very well have been somewhere else.
I have to admit, I'm a bit surprised - I didn't really expect to see this pop up again. It has been quite a while. The twist at the end was a bit predictable - you started summing stuff up too fast for it to look like a genuine part of the story. Still, pretty nice otherwise. As uncomfortable as I am with the whole surgery thing, I really hope it at least helps.
6297283 lol there are a few in this world I use i in describing their IQ... As in"iQ". Really useful when you come across those who make a turnip seem especially bright.
Update hype!
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I feel like I've seen something similar mentioned in a few fics. The most recent in my memory would be A Little Loopy, where it's part of one of the looping notes Sweetie Belle collects. I think it was Celestia who ate the rock though, just to see what would happen.
6297805 That must be it! Proving her identity with the rock thing mixed me up with that, which I just read last week. Crazy that it still tipped me off to the right thing though.
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Not me. No matter how much someone might cheer for a certain pairing, I would have to hope that rape and mind control would still cross the line for them. I mean, think about it this way. Let's remove the 'true love' angle and the specific characters from this scenario. Let's just say this was just some horny womanizer who wanted to bed anything that moves. Would we be cheering him on if he used the same technique Twilight did in this story? The fact he would be doing it to multiple woman would not make any difference. After all, the victims would 'love' him all the same and cherish their time together.
This story just can't end on a happy note, and the author has alluded that is unlikely to do so. I'm just hoping it doesn't end with it being revealed that Twilight was under some curse's influence, changelings did it, etc. A cop out ending would be so disappointing.
Actually, I've mentioned stuff like the above previously, but I want to take this conversation down a different route. Also, in the past, I've mentioned how people fall out of love all the time. See Rainbow Dash and Applejack's relationship for proof. I made the point that Dash no longer has the ability to do that. That even if you could argue that she secretly loved Twilight before all this happened, she's still been robbed of ever changing her mind. I have a new question.
What happens if Twilight falls out of love with Rainbow Dash?
Does she get to move on to someone else and leave Rainbow behind? And if it's wrong for the doctors to make any attempt to restore Rainbow to the way she was before, does that make it just as wrong for Twilight to do it for selfish reasons?
At that point, Twilight is pretty much obligated to stay with Rainbow Dash for life, wouldn't you say? Actually, that would be a great ending for this story. Twilight would have thrown everything away for something she no longer wants and is now in a miserable situation. Twilight, like Rainbow, is in a relationship that they cannot leave, but for different reasons. One because they have been magically forced to do so, the other out of penance for what they've done. It has a karmic justice feel to it. Yeah, I like that.
And let me stop all the 'ONE TRUE LOVE' and 'THAT COULD NEVER HAPPEN' arguments. As ridiculous as it seems to be talking about it in a fanfiction about cartoon horses, real relationships do not work like they do in fairy tales. In a story involving mind rape, we can't fall back on such a shallow and completely unrealistic view of love. Fairy Tale or Grim Dark. You can have one but not both.
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I'm not the writer and don't know where the story is headed but to me some of what you said seems a bit biased.
I don't know if you have any issues with Twilight and/or TwiDash (that stuff happens), but it was quite clear that Twilight did this not because she wanted to bed everything moving. If you still remember earlier stories, she was in a state of constant depression and the only thing she could have done to escape it was either kill herself or get Dash to love her. Mind I mention that she was quite close to choosing death too.
Then let's think clearly here. Dash was miserable after breaking up with AJ. Twilight invented the spell to (whether there was love hidden in Dash or not) make Dash love her. Both Twilight and Dash has become HAPPIER as the result. I don't know about you, but I would rather someone intervene and make my life better than live my entire life in misery. Surely Dash would have probably got over it maybe even found someone else to love, so ripping her of a chance to choose is indeed wrong and that's why you won't see me shouting that Twilight is innocent... Even though purely speculative, Dash's loyalty would transfer onto the relationship and once she's hooked with someone I find it unlikely for her to be the one to break up.
Also, while it does have karmic feel to it, Twilight INVENTED the spell. If a bunch of doctors are confident they can remove all effects on Dash, I'm sure Twilight would be able as well. That is of course if she ever needs it, which is extremely unlikely judging by entire YEARS she suffered in loneliness without her. This love is not just random infatuation or sex interest, for Twilight it is more important than life itself.
On a side note, doesn't higher justice always send a reward after a trial? If you have something bad happen in your life, wouldn't it be right to have something good happen afterwards? You know, just as + and - attracting to each other. I dunno, I just don't see the issue with having a bit of both grimdark and fairy tale in one fic. But then again, I'm NOT the author and can't tell anything about the future of the fic because I know nothing about it =P
Twilight 1 Luna 0
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It all seems to be a matter of whether you view Twilight's spell as true mind control. Obviously, if you view it as Twilight removing any and all free will from Dash in the matter, you're going to want her to face just comeuppance. But as I recall, what she did was insert her own feelings, leaving Dash free to act on them as she saw fit. From others' comments, this has proven a lot more debatable in its moral depravity.
I will admit, however, that Twidash being best ship is certainly coloring my own perspective here. In your hypothetical, I do not sympathize with this womanizer nearly as much. Yet I would still argue - if this womanizer was a well written, sympathetic character, who allowed the women he cast this spell on the choice of acting on their inserted feelings or not, I would not view him as a monster, or rapist. (As an added, edited in thought, there's a lot of nuances that could rapidly change my stance on this. I suppose what's most relevant to the topic at hand is that I found Twilight well written and sympathetic in the previous story, and did not view her as a monster/rapist at the end.)
No way it'll be a copout ending that gives Twilight an easy out. This whole fic is about the consequences for Twilight's actions, and suddenly generating a thus-far unheard excuse would undermine the whole thing. I may be hoping for a good ending, but something out of nowhere like that would ruin the whole thing.
If Twilight falls out of love with Dash - Excellent point. Given the happenings of the first fic, I find it unlikely, but the possibility is definitely interesting, and raises some great questions. I would argue that with the spell removed, that Dash is now capable of falling out of love with Twilight, since it's no longer emitting the 'pulse' that was keeping the feelings present. But as that's purely hypothetical, and Twilight would likely have never removed the spell herself unless directly confronted to do so, all I can say is your point is a strong one. All in all, I agree your hypothetical ending would be a fitting end for the story, even if it's not the one I want.
Do keep in mind, though, that it's been heavily implied that the doctors will not be as 'gentle' as Twilight's spell. As I recall, it was heavily implied that the subtleties of the spell kept it from doing damage to her mind, whereas it's been heavily implied the doctors' methods will very likely mess Dash up. While we may disagree on how terrible Twilight's original spell was, surely we can both agree that letting the doctors go forward would be far, far worse than letting Dash confront Twilight on this herself?
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The womanizer with multiple victims scenario would garner a lot less sympathy because it would be pretty clear he doesn't actually care about any of them and is just using them. Here Twilight legitimately cares about Dash and has "good" (if quite selfish) intentions. Of course whether that's any better depends on how much weight your moral philosophy assigns to intent or motive. Many would say that how Twilight feels about Dash doesn't make her actions any less of a violation. How sympathetic she is and the morality of her actions are not necessarily the same thing.
Well, she was miserable for like the month or so immediately after they broke up. The spell wasn't cast until a year later. By then she was basically normal, with any level of general singleness dissatisfaction left up to speculation.
The scenario of Twilight falling out of love with Dash but being stuck with her out of obligation would make one hell of a dark karmic ending, but I don't think I'll be taking it. It would be such a whiplash after the fact that the last fic all about Twilight spending years trying to fall out of love and failing, that it would almost start to feel like a diabolus ex machina.
The ending is not actually set yet, so it could go a couple ways, but I can definitely say that it's not going to turn out that Twilight was manipulated by some outside force. She is absolutely 100% responsible for her own actions. She knew what the likely repercussions could be, knew that it was extremely illegal (with a solid understanding of why), and chose to do it anyway.
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I think it is actually something like 2:1 with Twilight tricking everyone at the castle and then entrapping Luna in the dream and Luna in her turn managing to hunt down and catch Twilight before changelings rescued her.
6299901
The doctors said the spell would have removed itself on its own given some time. There was no need for Twilight to re-enable or cancel it prematurely because the job was done and the spell wasn't needed anymore. I'm not sure if RD is able to stop loving Twilight or not (what's with the neural bridge in her brain), so I guess that's up to the writer to flash out or leave ambiguous so both camps have some food.
Personally I feel that unless Twilight changes and becomes an intolerable person, there is no need for RD to even try falling out of love. She seemed pretty happy and content during the short period or piece they had so why wouldn't she remain happy if the escape is successful?
6300090
Yeah, maybe reading a few fics where RD was depressed because such cool and successful mare still had no partner tinted my view on her state after the break-up... well, that and TwiDash being my favorite ship XD
6300191
For the same reason you wouldn't leave a Stockholm Syndrome victim with its kidnappers just because it has started to sympathize with and like them: It isn't right to do that to someone. In every practical sense, it's the next best thing to date rape by way of Rohypnol. She can't/won't say no, but it's not because she ever wanted to out of her own initiative. That's the whole premise of the story right there.
6300272
Yea, but it's still pretty heavily up in the air and can have lots of different interpretations. It's basically the question of "Is the goal worth the methods used to get there"?
Most examples here are overly-dramatic. Twilight did it not because she wanted to get laid, so comparing this to drugging someone for sex is wrong. The worst one I saw so far is comparing it to a case with multiple victims with 0 compassion or emotions towards them. She's not an outright rapist for gods sake! Well, at least I believe it wasn't her purpose at all, but then again, it is only me and my view on things.
No one says she's not guilty, but the extent of how much she actually abused Rainbow and if it can be compared to Stockholm Syndrome is still not certain. Plus I dunno about you, but on her place I would have probably done the same =\
6300307
No, it is not. It's not about why she did it, because that literally doesn't matter. It's about what she did - strict liability. Exploiting someone for emotional satisfaction is no different than exploiting them for physical pleasure (and she definitely did the latter, too) if you do it by coercing them into it. Yes, she is a rapist. She raped both Rainbow's mind and free will and her body. That she actually loves her doesn't make it any less so.
That is really, really fucking creepy.
6300321
Maybe it is creepy, our way of thinking is just too different XD
The main difference is just that I don't see it as negative as you do... I seriously don't know why, but the things you've said just don't bother me that much when they involve love and not outright slavery. I do realize that what you say about her actions is true but I just can't get any speck of anger at her or her actions. Maybe it's because I relate to what she suffered before she committed this crime and can't blame her because I've partially felt the same thing and also was desperate to escape it? I don't know what I would have done if the feelings didn't eventually relent on their own after several months... And that's not even factoring in that my feelings weren't anywhere as strong as what Twilight felt. It is the type of emotions that force people to commit suicide if they are not successful in resolving them or finding someone to reciprocate their love.
She suffered these emotions for years, I can easily understand why she did what she did. The only other solution was killing herself and I doubt many would chose it over coercing the other party without actually physically hurting anyone. Would you seriously do something else if you had the tools? Good for you if yes =)
Plus what would the girls think if she killed herself? What would RD do if she realized why Twilight did it? I doubt there was any really good solution except for Twi to perform mind alteration on herself (to make her love Fluttershy or no one at all when infatuation with RD started affecting her judgement), but then it is unknown if it is possible or not.
P.S. If you want to argue anything beyond that, let's take it into Private Messages to keep this beautiful story clean of our bickering =)
6300356
I can understand it too, but that doesn't mean I have to condone what she did. I could deal with people messing with my body, but violating the sanctity of my mind? That's something I'd decide the perpetrator deserves to die for. If were to love anyone, I would want it to be someone I love out of my own volition. Anything less isn't really love any more than being on drugs is being actually happy.
6300356
For what it's worth, I really don't think it's that creepy. Even within this story, Fluttershy admits that if she had the ability to influence Twilight in the same way, she cannot say with 100% certainty she wouldn't take the chance. I even have to say that, if I was in Twilight's exact position in the prequel, given the same options, I may have done the same thing. But can you say that you would be willing to, say, magically alter your thoughts for someone who loved you, but you didn't love back? I don't think I would. Twilight was not willing to take the chance Dash would refuse such a thing, which is largely why we have this story.
6300321
Twilight's actions were absolutely selfish. But, outside of the spell, she had been truly good to Dash, there is no Stockholm Syndrome at play here. It comes down to just how much Twilight's spell you think is overriding Dash's free will - and I believe it is overriding none of it, and find myself rooting for Twilight in this story. While Dash may indeed have had her feelings for Twilight magically implanted into her, she is still very much herself, and in control of her actions. If I believed otherwise, I would be in the same camp as you and calling Twilight a rapist.
I am currently beyond grossed out by how many would-be date rapists there are in here who would apparently just love to dose all the chicks with love poison, if it actually existed. Because other people's choices and feelings don't matter if you can just make them do what you want, right? God, this site is awful sometimes.
6300492
Yes, because sudden strong emotions don't influence our behaviour at all, especially if you're convinced they're genuine. Everyone knows that.
6300524
Other people's feelings absolutely do matter, and in fact matter even more so in a setting where this level of mental magic is possible. The interpretation and implementation of Twilight's spell, however, is much less black and white than you're trying to paint it, which is why you see such vastly different opinions on the level of wrongness of it. If you completely dismiss why Twilight cast the spell, it looks a far darker shade, and since you seem of the camp it does not matter at all, Twilight looks a lot worse. I believe whether the why matters is a heavily debated topic in justice even outside horse fan fiction sites, however, and imagine we're both rather dead set in our ideas there. I also believe how Twilight treated Dash after the fact, that she remained true and valued Dash's happiness above all else once they got together, is relevant here. Again though, that's probably an argument we could have that would not be very productive.
You'll not get argument from me on one thing - Twilight wronged, and the only reason Dash acted the way she did was because of her influence. But I do not believe this is on the level of drugs and/or date rape. What's ultimately going to matter in this story is what Dash's opinion on the whole thing is, when the truth inevitably outs.
I do want to say I respect how passionately you seem to feel over this whole thing.
6300597
I've met and become close to a few too many people who have been victimized in a similar manner to not feel strongly about it. You're right, I don't think this would go anywhere. I'll definitely admit to one thing, though: doing the wrong thing for good (or even just understandable) reasons doesn't make it any less of a wrong thing to me. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
I appreciate that you're staying as civil about this as you are. It's a topic that really gives me a temper.
6300597
"Why?" matters in law and widely affects outcome of trials. That's why murder under affect or murder in self defense aren't treated the same way as usual murder or cruel murder with torture or even murder of underage people. I honestly believe that one can't claim that Twi mind-raping Dash because of passionate and unbearable love is the same as drugging someone for sex >_>
The same can be said about the behavior after the crime. People who gave up themselves willingly or at least without resistance to authorities usually get softer sentence than the ones who resisted or denied their guilt in the face of irrefutable proof.
Personally I think that Wlam is acting a bit overly-emotional and lets his/her feelings affect the judgement about the degree to which Twilight can be considered a monster and not just another victim of cruel love that forced her to commit a crime she would rather not. His/her claims about Twilight's behavior and reasons why she did it not being important are a sign of not willing to give her a chance. Well, at least that's my opinion and I fully respect his/her opinion and not going to try changing it.
Also, of course this depends a lot on outside factors but if I were on RD's place and a good (as in with adequate behavior and not ugly-looking) person asked me to perform that sort of magic on me because they passionately love me I would probably agree =P
P.S. Sorry for posting after you guys ended the discussion. I swear there wasn't anything there when I started typing =)
6300645
So are you - feelings and pain is what this is all about, after all. There is no such thing as objective morality. I won't pretend otherwise, but I'm also not going to apologize for it.
Now imagine if they were ugly and you had said no, but they did it anyway... because that's much more likely to be what you'd get. If they were willing to take no for an answer, it wouldn't be coercion to begin with.
6300675
I believe objective morality is called the law. The only issue there is however, that law is still interpreted through judges and human mind, which sometimes can taint and bend it. The law states that there are different categories of crime and different circumstances or events that make a crime more severe or lighter.
Twilight didn't ask for RD's consent due to being too afraid of complete rejection. I believe she wouldn't have been able to force herself to cast the spell if RD refused beforehand, but that's pure speculation on my part.
In any case, Twilight made a mistake by not asking her first and thus committing the crime... She IS guilty and no one is going to deny that.
BTW, that part of comment was actually directed to Arcanetoes since he said he wouldn't allow anyone to implant love into him.
Just out of interest though, with a mindset of yours what would you feel if it SOMEHOW turned out that Dash was willing to allow Twilight cast the spell IF only she asked? Would it really change anything for your view on Twilight or is it dead-set no matter what happens? =P
6300773
Let's just say that as a German who is more than familiar with things like the Nuremberg Racial Purity Laws, I don't think much of equating "legal" with "moral." But that's a separate matter.
That said, yes, it would make a difference to me. Not much of one, but it would, even if I can't imagine what would ever make anyone agree to something like that. The idea is just entirely foreign to me.
The fact remains, though, that she didn't ask. She didn't even consider it. She simply decided that her desires were more important than what Rainbow wanted and then took her. And that's really the crux of the matter. Whether Rainbow would have agreed is a hypothetical. Twilight never cared one way or the other.
6300773
6300791
Even though before I said I wouldn't agree to having such a spell cast on me, I believe there actually is a way to spin it where I would be willing to allow it:
If the person was of the gender I am physically/emotionally attracted to,
If the person casting it was a trusted friend who seemed to truly love me despite my lack of reciprocation,
If I felt for certain I would still be me after the spell was cast,
With all these conditions fulfilled, I would be willing to subject myself to such a thing. In the case of Twilight and Dash, only the third of these criteria isn't certainly fulfilled (and is the subject of much debate). I am unsure if fulfilling such criteria makes the idea less crazy for you, but that would be my take on it.
And editing in: Though I would probably want to have some time to reflect on why I don't naturally love them before I agreed to such a thing.
6300840
I don't really like to argue about this kind of thing in terms of "what-ifs," but personally, I think if I were ever willing to do that, it would be for someone I already have enough affection for that entering a normal, casual relationship and letting the love grow naturally would be a valid option anyway - and if I were not, it wouldn't be justifiable to begin with, really.
Still, fair enough.
6299821
Twilight's state of mind can be used as a mitigating factor in her defense in length of punishment. It cannot be used to completely absolve her of her crimes. Let's say I am deeply and hopelessly in love with someone, to the point that I am suicidal. I still cannot go out and kidnap them hoping for Stockholm Syndrome to kick in and have them love me back. There is no great love story there, no D'awws. No one owes any other person for their happiness. Certainly no one should ever be forced into that situation by another party.
As for making Dash happier? First, it's never implied in the original story that Dash is miserable. After a year, she was still single, but that doesn't mean anything. Secondly, even if she was, it still doesn't matter and just goes to show how selfish Twilight is. Go back and reread chapter 10 when Twilight makes the decision to begin manipulating Dash. Not once in the whole internal diatribe does she make the point that this is to help Dash. It's all about getting what she wants. Comparing this to my original hypothetical, Mr Womanizer, Twilight is using unethical means for her own ends. Just because it's Twilight's 'one true love' doesn't make it any less disgusting in nature.
This is not a love story. This is a story of a very broken individual manipulating people to her own selfish ends. At one point in the original story Twilight actually plays with the idea of not just breaking up AJ and Dash, but actually KILLING Applejack to do so. Again, not a love story.
6299901
I don't think Twilight's actions are morally debatable. If I give you the choice of losing an arm or a finger, the fact you have a choice doesn't negate the fact I am causing you harm. Now my example is extreme, to the point of absurdity I don't disagree, just an example that the illusion of choice isn't a real choice at all. Also, at least in my example, one knows they are being manipulated. Dash's illusion is even worse. She doesn't know that her feelings aren't real. In what scenario is it likely, or even possible, that she would choose differently? A fact Twilight seemed to be counting on.
Going to be honest here, I don't know what to take away from that. Either an act is wrong or it is not, especially ones involving sex (we're not talking about someone stealing a loaf of bread here to feed their dying sibling). Judging a crime based on the character of the one doing it is a very, very bad precedent. Also, if I had said the perpertrator used drugs or alchohol to achieve the same end, a happy and cooperative participant, would your feelings change and if they would, why does magic get a free pass?
As for your point about the spell being removed so Dash could now fall out of love, it is an interesting possibility for sure. What does Twilight do if that happens? If Dash falls out of love, does Twilight hit her with another spell? Is this spell also justified in your eyes and if it's not, how is it any different from the first one?
It's been implied elsewhere that I don't care for this ship and that's my problem with the situation. Not only is that ridiculous (I couldn't care less about who the author ships) I think it reveals alot about the mindset that some of the Twilight supporters have. Too many people are looking at an outcome they like and ignoring all the messy details along the way. Going back to the original story, Twilight plays with some very dark ideas until we get to her magical solution. Twilight is very much damaged goods at this point. Making her out to be some desperate hero on a journey of true love is a pretty twisted take on this situation in my opinion.
6300981
I really couldn't agree more. This story really couldn't be any darker-themed than it already is. Only the fact that it isn't graphic about it in any way whatsoever precludes it from deserving a Mature rating, in my opinion.
6300524
You're fighting the dual forces of naivety and wish fulfillment from people that see a certain ship they like and choose to gloss over the ugly details for an outcome they want. Fandom can be ugly at times. I would like to think that if they were given the same choice in the real world, that they would not make the same choices once removed from their fantasy.
6300981
No one here is claiming she is not guilty nor calling her a hero. She should receive her punishment, but not without counting in all other factors that have already been mentioned and might come up later on. Her psyche was so weak that she almost went crazy back there... It's a good thing she didn't do anything as radical as killing AJ. And she did have a flash of contemplation whether or not Dash would want it but at the end her mania pushed her to believe that Dash would be totally cool with it. If anything, I think she was mentally ill back then =\
"Drugs" are a bad word that instantly makes us think of it as something horrible. Stop using examples full of red-buttons and emotionally flamable topics. As for the example itself, drugs get you physically addicted AS WELL AS altering your brain chemistry and perception. Love, on the other hand alters only your behavior at certain points and can be easily broken if the other person turns out to be a complete jerk or does something unforgivable. Or it simply fades away if it wasn't real. So once again, your example is overly-dramatic with clear attempts to color everything in horrible shades.
It will not be justifiable by any means (not that the first one is justifiable, mind you). I think almost everyone will be against it because Dash has had a taste of what her life with Twi is like and made a conscious decision that she doesn't like it. She couldn't have been sure the first time around. It is one thing to push your kid down a high water slide the first time he tries it, but pushing him again after he tried it and got hurt, scared or disliked the experience is completely another. That's why doing it the second time is not justifiable by any means and indeed EXTREMELY selfish.
EDIT: Wow, my comment made someone flip their sh*t and go on a downvote rampage on every single comment they didn't like (mostly by me). Nice way of keeping an informative discussion. I assume that in real world that downvote basically equates to someone losing their wits and face-punching the opponent... a great way to prove that someone is being guided purely by emotions and not rational thought. I wonder who that was =P
EDIT 2: Oh wait, never mind... Now that person downvoted every single comment that opposed the anti-rape camp. Nice!
6301105
Would you stop shouting people down for using comparisons you don't like, please? If you've paid attention to the story, you should be aware that it explicitly says that Twilight's magic physically modified Rainbow's brain. It's literally doing the same thing a drug might have done.
Not that it actually matters, because even if it was wibbly-wobbly "psychic" stuff, the fact is that Rainbow is still under the influence of a mood-altering substance - even if that substance is called magic instead of GHB. She is not in full possession of her faculties and can't give informed consent, which is both legally and morally enough to make it use of force. It's the reason why, under many countries' laws, sleeping with an individual that was drugged or inebriated is considered statutory rape even if both partners agreed beforehand: at least one of them was not in their right mind to make such a decision in the first place.
6301041
I'd like to think so. A combination of youth, naivety and inexperience with what love actually means to people could make someone think that way, but that's very far removed from actually forcing yourself on someone in reality. I hope so, at least. There are enough victims in the world without yet another egotist who believes that wanting something enough is all the justification you need for simply taking it.
6301041
I'm certainly not glossing over ugly details - it's largely because we have ugly details that this is my favorite Twidash fic. That said I already admitted it being my favorite ship is probably influencing my own opinions, so you may be right on the wish-fulfillment.
I don't believe your arm/finger example is extreme at all (In fact I love these kind of 'logical extreme' comparisons), but I don't believe it matches the situation. I can't imagine the person offering me this false choice has even their own best interests at heart, for starters, and Dash's 'choice' was far less binary - it was more like "I suddenly have these feelings, what am I going to do about them?" And I believe that her feelings, while inserted, are real. They are, at the very least, real to her.
Drugs and alcohol are not mind altering - they're mind inhibiting. Dash was not inhibited by this spell, and was fully in control of her mental faculties. I assume so too would be the people in your womanizer example. As far how I could sympathize with the womanizer, I must admit I had pictured a lovable spoony bard using some magic to implant particularly charming images of himself in the minds of wenches at the local seedy tavern. Perhaps that was not the image you were going for and you were trying to paint a more dour picture.
I honestly don't know what I'd expect Twilight to do if Dash fell out of love with her, and it were within her power to cast the spell again. I imagine it would largely depend on the circumstance at hand - if she's been outed, I doubt she'll cast it again.
While liking or disliking a ship can certainly influence one's opinion on a fanfic (or non-fanfic), that's an irrelevant point to make on their part when you're not arguing quality of the story, but the morality of the situation. I hope you properly informed that to anybody trying to make that argument at you.
I don't view Twilight as a hero in this story, but I don't view her as a villain either. She is definitely the protagonist though, and I sympathize well enough with her to want things to turn out well for her. It is absolutely not a journey of true love - but it's definitely a desperate struggle of some strange version of it.
And editing in: Want to repeat, since it came up again, a large part of the debate hinges on how much free will you believe Dash had in all this. So I'll repeat for emphasis, it is my belief that Dash was and is in full control of her mental faculties here.
6301197
Speaking from extensive personal experience, of the legal and illegal varieties both? They absolutely are.
6301212
I should've clarified - I meant mind inhibiting as something much worse than mind altering.
6301265
It's still not really true, though. Many drugs leave you completely lucid - they just make you feel in ways that you know you shouldn't, even as you can't help doing so anyway. Ecstasy deserves that name, for example. I could have done Calculus while on it no problem when I tried it, but it still makes you want to love everyone and everything, even complete random strangers. You know that you don't actually have any idea who those people are, but you just want to share the happiness so badly that you randomly hug them anyway. It's pretty funny to watch. Horrible comedown, though.
(With that in mind, I think you can understand why I believe so strongly in the power of overwhelming emotions to make you do things you normally wouldn't consider)
Then again, some drugs will keep you acting as if you were perfectly sober and in control of yourself even while you are practically blacked out and won't remember a second of it the next day. Those are genuinely mind-inhibiting. You have pretty much no sense of judment at all. I make a point of staying well away from anything that even looks like one of those.
6301287
Interesting.
I admit a large portion of my argument on 'magic vs drugs' hinged on them being inhibiting in bad ways, so I suppose I'll have to rethink that argument given new perspective. That said, Twilight's spell could be compared to a targeted version of ecstasy, given your description, and I have to say I would be appalled at the thought of someone using such a thing to get into a romantic relationship with someone. For the sake of my argument I should probably avoid drawing that parallel, but I can't help but notice it.
I suppose I could repeat that I still believe Dash was likely more in control and aware of herself than one on such a drug, but it feels a weak point given your experience, and that certainly nobody can comment on how it feels to be under the effects of this spell.
6301336
Yeah, that's pretty much why I keep drawing that comparison - I have never been under the influence of any spells, but I have been under the influence of substances that can mess with your emotional balance like nobody's business. It will make you do things, unless you have a lot of willpower and experience with actively resisting your own impulses. It's like an emotional hallucination: you can know that it's not real all you want... but that doesn't make the spiders go away.
6301105
Except drugs are a perfect example in this case. You can't hand wave it away because you don't like its negative connotation. The reason that using drugs or alcohol is bad in this situation has nothing to do with its side effects. It has everything to do with using a foreign substance to manipulate a person to do something they would not otherwise do. The fact that magic can skip over some of the negative after effects does nothing to negate the chief harm.
Did you read the first story? The spell was designed to constantly reinforce Dash's love for Twilight. This wasn't a one time thing. Twilight even lays out how the brain would create its own rationalizations to make sense of these new feelings. You make the claim that if Twilight acted like a jerk, Dash would simply walk away. Real life abuse victims, actual physical abuse, rationalize their love for their attackers every single day and they don't have a magic compulsion planted in their head. Can you imagine how difficult, if not outright impossible, it would be for Rainbow Dash to walk away?
I'm not attempting to color this in horrible shades. This story is already saturated with it. Your rationalization based on Twilight's intent (which is a LOT more selfish than some here are willing to admit) is irrelevant. She either mind raped Dash or she didn't.
Now if your intent is to argue mitigating circumstances, that Twilight should get help for what she had done, should get help with her depression, etc, that I can get behind. The Twilight of the first story is clearly in need of psychological assistance. However, part of that help has to be making amends with her victim, Rainbow Dash. The chief part of which would be breaking off the relationship and convincing Rainbow to accept help with what was done to her.
If you think Twilight should get to walk away and continue to abuse, yes abuse, someone else for her own selfish desires you're not really arguing mitigation, you're arguing that Twilight was right and did nothing wrong. You can't straddle the fence on such a horrifying concept such as brainwashing.
6301105
Wasn't me. I haven't downvoted anyone in this comment thread we have going. Having said that, downvotes don't mean anything. People are going to disagree with you and that's how some of them are going to do so. There's nothing good or bad about it. It's just what it is.
6301374
Her spell was designed to only help (or force in your terms) the brain create the neural connection. It didn't brainwash or permanently implant magic into her. I already mentioned that according to doctors, the spell would have self-destructed and faded away on it's own in less than a month. The leftovers of the spell, as far as I can see are just natural love obtained in an unnatural way. There is nothing alien or harmful about it EXCEPT the way in which it got created.
It's like hearing a newest popular song over and over again in various places and getting it stuck in your head. The spell basically just suggested/mentioned "Twilight" every time RD thought of something that made her happy and the rest of the job was her own doing. The brain gets a mention of Twilight when it is feeling good and slowly creates a link between memory about Twi and good emotions. At least that's how I see it.
Also, yes I'm arguing about mitigating the punishment for what she did in case she gets caught. I'm not going to comment on what should or shouldn't be done otherwise because it is yet unknown which way the story will go and what additional facts might surface.
I NEVER said that she should be allowed to just walk away with no consequences because she clearly is wrong in what she did. I'm not sure what level of punishment she deserves as it is not over yet and I'm still waiting for her explanation to Dash. We will likely get an explanation on why she thought it was acceptable or whatever when action gives way to drama and talking.
6301391
Truth be told, for some unknown reason it brings my mood down. I know that so far it is only 1 intolerant or lazy dude who chose to "participate" in the conversation in this way... I just wish he expressed his own opinion by commenting instead of blindly downvoting everything he sees. It can't be that ALL of my comments and half of what the other guy said made him disagree THAT heavily =\