Estee
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Anakin Skywalker: "You mean, sand isn't forever?"
Damn. I thought I was done processing this. Watching someone else process it for me... I'm not done processing this. But it's a really good story to bring all the emotions back.
Added to
Tryptych Continuum Rebooted (group)
AU (folder)
A side story to
Anchor Foal II: Return Of The Cringe
Estee, you have mastered the art of emotion and manipulating emotion. I say this as a compliment.
I have never read any of Gaiman’s works. I wouldn’t recognize any of the titles if you put them in front of me. I didn’t even know his name until maybe ten years ago, and at that point it would have been just another name mentioned a few times in one headline or another somewhere on the vastness of the internet.
I knew nothing of his stories, I knew nothing of the true impact his works have had on people, I knew nothing of what he had created.
You’ve painted a remarkably haunting picture from the perspective of someone who did know. Bravo.
Fantastic work on all three chapters. It was a harrowing journey, truly haunting. Disgusting and foul. Very nuanced and deep thoughts on the problem of influencers and relationships, dysfunctional dynamics and traumatic experiences shaping perceptions.
I really hope you keep exploring Fleur's character arc as she realizes the impacts her manipulations had on her own victims. But I also hope that in that development she is able to persevere through the darkness of guilt, shame, & self-hatred to come out on the other side intact.
There's a scene in my favorite tv show, Mr. Robot, where there was a woman character who had been shown to be cold, callous, and manipulative. Leading up to this scene she had been extorting a man by paying him to keep him quiet about witnessing the aftermath of a murder the woman's husband had committed and finally after weeks or months of keeping this up as the FBI has been increasingly harassing him and making him paranoid by tapping all of his phone calls and essentially ruining his life, he finally snaps on her and ends up shooting her and killing her brutally, right next to her poor little infant who gets covered in her bloody skull fragments. Horrific scene, and they transition it so well into the next one, which is the forensic investigators taking pictures of her head, and she's very beautiful, but it pans out & you see how she has been pulled apart and all of that beauty in life means nothing in death.
Sorry for the ugly formatting but that character has always had strong similarities with Fleur in my mind, but the funny thing is I absolutely hated her but totally love Fleur. I always wondered what would happen if one of Fleur's victims were pushed too far, and that scene always came to mind. You push people too far and they will break one way or another.
Thank you for writing this story. I know it was not fun to write, given what it's about and why it came about in the first place. It took a lot of guts to lay out all of these details, trying to synthesize them and make sense of the incomprehensible acts of evil. All while weaving a tender and loving framework of characters going through the same thing, reliving it all again at the same time too. Thanks for allowing both sides of the conversation to express their contrasting perspectives with both having valid points and neither being vilified.
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Anchor Foal Extended Universe E X P A N D S
Thank you for cataloging
I....shouldn't have read this. I only heard one detail before reading. I also only read two of his books, both exactly once, so I was lucky and there was nothing for me to personally confront beyond learning that another famous writer was a horrible person. I feel kind of sick now, and I don't think I've gained anything in terms of the great fiction debate because I've been on team Proper Tagging like Fleur for a decade.
Maybe I have gained something from the perspectives though. I don't know. All I know is that the idea of Alex Hirsch secretly being a monster terrifies me beyond words. I met every friend I have today in a Gravity Falls chatroom ten years ago, and they're the reason I'm here.
Despite my regret, I'm glad you wrote this. I hope writing and reading it helps all of you.
EDIT: nevermind, I apparently really needed this. I talked to my friends about my fear, cried a bit, and I'm still afraid but I feel....lighter. Thank you, Estee.
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You're welcome.
I'm a big fan of Estee's work. I started the group because not everything Estee writes is part of the Triptych Continuum. I hoped that by grouping the stories I'd make it easier to keep track of various things.
Estee, yet again you prove you have far too much talent with the words you write and the characters you develop. Yet again, as much as I loathe what Fleur was, I now respect her character way more than I ever could have expected.
I would like to think that once Twilight has had more time to process the situation it will be an impetus for her to seek out Fleur for further conversation and possibly a greater understanding will come.
First two chapters are really good set-up, translating the situation into your Equestria, and bringing Fleur and Twilight into the story. And then comes the third chapter... Twilight's outburst, and Fleur's chill at the end of the story, are some of the hardest-hitting things you've written, and you've written quite a lot of emotionally heavy things before.
I don't like this story, but I admire it. It's a very, very well done story about an awful subject matter. I'm glad that it's written, and sorry that it had to be written.
I can see why writing this was so hard on you. Grappling with this revelation, whether personally or through the characters, is a disquieting process. The end result here was an engrossing meditation on morality, art and artist, the curse of hindsight... and the fact that it still leaves several questions unresolved is entirely fitting. We're all still asking ourselves the same things.
Personally, I'm not getting rid of those works of his on my own shelves, but I'm definitely not touching them any time soon, and I'm not procuring anything more. My volumes of Sandman will remain incomplete. So it goes.
Thank you for an emotionally rough but undeniably well-crafted read. I hope it'll help in the long run; I know that at the time of posting this comment, you're still in the recovery phase.
This is why I only read dead authors.
this reminds me of an old story i read, i think it was called "The Glass Dagger".
a Wizard caught a Werewolf trying to rob his home, and tricked the Werewolf into thinking he had an invisible dagger hovering over his heart that would kill him if he turned wolf ever again...
and THIS reminds me of one of the Sandman comic books where someone was literally holding a Muse prisoner, until "Dream of the Endless" finally forced the man to let her go, by giving him nightmares that would not stop until he let her go.
edit: after reading the comments on the last chapter, i realized that was an intentional reference.
Of all the ways I've found out people whose work I admire are scumbags, this is my favorite so far.
And that right there, that black and white view, is why Twilight will never understand, and probably never accept Fleur.
And since Twilight is the "child" of Star Swirl, what does that mentality say about her view of herself?
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Took a while to connect the dots, too! Dramatic but not too obvious to casual readers.
It's understandable if a bit indulgent for an author to reject The Death of the Author and work on the assumption words have deeper meanings and real power. Viewing it from the perspective of two characters that take stories personally and seriously is wonderful. And writing does have greater depth and layers to it. Hell, if TDotA didn't apply to music we'd never listen to rock or pop again!
It's interesting seeing what art I (and I suppose people more generally) can separate from the artist. I shan't have any issue with Good Omens, but then I can tell myself Sir Terry wrote all the good bit, and I never really did get into this guys work.
One of my favourite authors, Tom Sharpe, was a Nazi during the war, but (a) he was young and under his father's influence and (b) saw the camps opened. I can tell myself it's not fair on the rest of lostprophets, especially as they apparently have done the nonce out of royalties, but I still feel a bit dodgy listening to it, and as for Gary Glitter, well, no.
So where do you draw the line? Where you like, I suppose, as long as you can acknowledge they're still complete and utter bastards.
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There's increasing evidence that Sir Pterry did write most of the good bits. The current breakdown of the book may be 70/30, and the story now goes that his coauthor didn't edit or rewrite most of what was contributed -- so the polishing may have mostly been from one side.
The maggots scene is confirmed to be from the other guy.
I should also mention that as of the linked update, the Kickstarter graphic novel project has kicked him out. It's all the Pratchett Estate now.
I wonder how Celestia is taking it..
She had to have figured out the same thing Twilight did.
About his type.
And a mare who is skilled in the art of tormenting herself had to wonder what would have happened if the wings that guarded her student hadn’t been the largest in the world.
What if Twilight had went on her own?
What if she had met him alone?
A young, small isolated fan.
What would the oldest mare in the world have done if Twilight had come to her broken and blooded?
Talk about nightmare fuel.
imho this story is good, even great in parts (even in a fairly strong sense of the word great), but uneven. I think the second and third chapters are on the whole FAR better than the first.
By the time I finished reading this story, it may have at least a little bit changed (maybe even improved) how I think about writing and art. That's an interesting trick to pull off, since I think I'd already thought more about writing than most people (and maybe even more than many writers)...and ALSO since I'd already read some more standard (more journalistic) takes on the Gaiman sex abuse scandal.
I haven't done a grouped reply in a while.
This story mandates that I say a few things.
Starting with:
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I'm sorry.
I knew there was a chance that this would be the way someone found out. I was going to shatter an illusion -- no, worse. I was going to break a dream.
I can't say I understand what you're going through, not exactly -- because every reaction is going to be at least a little unique. This story is part of mine, and the linked blog is much of the rest. Just know that I knew this one would potentially hurt people, and... I had to write it anyway. But I regret the pain.
I am sorry.
I just can't fix this either.
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Not a good day to ask me for recs, I guess.
Also, if the lawyers come sniffing around, Parody Is Protected Speech. So if you want to push? See you in court. And frankly, doesn't (?person?) look bad enough already without you getting this petty?
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One of the reasons the story doesn't end with a definitive answer on 'What now?' is because I don't feel there is one. All decisions made on what to do with the material are going to be personal. Some will be intensely so.
I have a few books. (Lost my original collection some time back, was rebuilding the run.) Couple of TV seasons. And no action has been taken.
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Reading your post made me start mentally composing a list of People Whose Secret Monstrosity Would Potentially Break Me (If It Was Real).
Let's just say I had to stop rather quickly. And again, for the nothing it's worth... I'm sorry. But the best tactic to take is that if no one's said anything, then give them the benefit of the doubt. Let them be human.
Don't love anyone you don't know. But don't assume that celebrity and success always require a monster. I can name counterexamples. And that's why I didn't have Fleur say that: the belief that you can't reach the top without crawling over bodies. You can.
...she almost said it anyway. Fleur, when at the POV wheel, requires monitoring. Carefully.
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On a much lesser level, this was also the chance for Fleur to think about some of her own past actions. I know several people felt that one was left hanging.
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...so it's Uber. 'This is not a story to be enjoyed...'
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Fleur mostly glosses over the question because her opinion of the Princess is not exactly at My Liege. But... I feel there would have been a trial. And she would have sent others out to arrest, because she wouldn't have trusted herself.
Then she would have found a private spot to let the fury out.
Well away from the palace. In a place where there was nothing left which could burn.
Oh, and one last thing.
The vote ratio on this story isn't good. I knew it wouldn't be going in. Some of that is from people who don't like my writing and will downvote whatever I post. Others don't like this story. That's fine.
I think I can safely say that based on what's happened with other pieces I've posted in the past, one or more of those other downvotes is from a party who only has one regret:
It wasn't them doing it.
Because they're convinced they could have gotten away with it forever.
And they're pissed off because I said this was wrong.
Not the first time that's happened with Fleur involved, is it?
You don't like my writing? Got it. My style? Join the club. Subjective, but fair.
You're pissed off because in your opinion, I just called you out?
Then I accept your hate as a badge of honor.
Imagine what happens if you tell me you think everything which happened was right and proper. To my face.
You won't get away with that either.
Or maybe you just won't get away.
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Hero worship has never been my style, thank god. I don't even follow the guy on social media, let alone feel like I know him, but the closest thing I have to a life dream is to tell him my story even if it's probably one he's heard a thousand times.
I've had that fear pretty much since Rowling went to shit. Never thought about it directly for long, but you drove me to talk about something I didn't realize I needed to. As soon as the tears dried, it...felt okay to move on. Art is meant to do that, yeah? So in this very slight hindsight, I'm glad I read The Impermanence of Sand. And to have exchanged a few words with its creator :>
The patient two-chapter setup for the intense clash of viewpoints is what makes this tick. In a setting this rich with lore it still takes many words to locate the right characters in the right mind-space.
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Too cynical a Fleur and she'll say stuff that's not really true. Too oblivious a Twilight and she'll act without reviewing the bigger picture. Too much comfort from either it'd be a respectful discussion over tea instead of a tense sparring session.
At some point the authors are so long-dead and the history they're from such a foreign country the death of the author's a default. Viewing the swords-and-sorcery aesthetics of He-man, D&D barbarians, and Frank Frazetta through the lens of Robert E. Howard's 1930s political views is enlightening but lacks all bite.
Close-in there's a still feeling of social contracts being re-negotiated. The pendulum swinging back and forth, Culture unsure where its midpoint is. And now we're crystallizing and ossifying our morals in text in a permanent way mass media's news cycle didn't, and the question of what's badthink and unacceptable to include in the literary corpus for fresh minds to consume becomes critical...
Well. It's easier with music where everyone just accepts that highly illicit sex and drugs are how you get good rock and roll.
Read this over the last few days. Realizing that That Series also begins with a story about an abusive cult leader and his son.
That guy was my favorite author since childhood. I know better than to believe in heroes. But it still hurts.
I think at the end Fluer had to come to terms with her past self. Would she have had she met him had turned him in or tried to blackmail him. Plus is there a point where you seperate the writer from his works? I'm friendly with a few writers and some are politically opposite from me and I'm still friends with them. I seperate there political beliefs from the friendship and still buy there books. Of course that's different buy a huge amount from rape.
Hit me like a truck. I am still grieving over this. He was one of my favorite authors.
Oof, this story manages to somehow be bittersweet and meta bittersweet...
Obviously, the real-life events this was inspired by are troubling for all the reasons discussed and more; and it is so easy to relate to Twilight in this story. I won't ever go back to watching House of Cards for similar reasons; even though I genuinely found it to be such a compelling show to watch. Maybe that's easier/better to reconcile with a visual medium like TV when it's the actor who let you down? You can't not see Kevin Spacey's face watching HoC; but the writer isn't present anywhere in The Sandman...
But, yeah, aside from the obvious, this story was bittersweet for me because I've been so looking forward to seeing Fleur and Twi get some quality one-on-one time in one of your fics...and this was the topic of their first big talk? Big "Oofs". Requisite: "Story that's just two mare's talking and you couldn't passed the 'Bechdel Test', Estee?!" /s
These were the right characters to have this conversation, of course; given the subject matter(an author) and the...subject matter(non-con predation). But boy could I have hoped these two's debut conversation would have involved a lot more light-hearted sex-jokes and Twilight pretending not to furiously scribble down notes for later 'research'!
I hope this story helped to provide you with at least a little relief by letting you vent your frustrations. It looked like you were trying to balance your feelings(Twi) and logic(Fleur); and I empathized throughout. The ending was the right one. In that...there probably isn't a "right" answer on where to go where the works are concerned.
This was a good story, Estee; thank you.
A bit wordy overall, with some odd breaks, but the content is good. Twilight is... Overreacting, I think, to something she doesn't fully understand. I'm assuming she's mistaking dub-con or BDSM as rape, and Fluer, with a greater understanding, will be confronting Twilight on this.
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This story is about the Neil Gaiman sex abuse scandal. The title of the first article Twilight shows Fleur is a direct reference to an article about that scandal. Twilight Sparkle isn't misunderstanding the severity of what happened at all.
The bit where Fleur and Twilight were discussing the difference between BDSM and rape reminded me of a passage from a book on abuse I was recently reading. The author made the point that it is often the context of the relationship that sets the tenor for sex and abuse in that relationship. Meaning that if a couple loves and values each other, they can engage in some extremely kinky sex indeed, but it's not rape or abuse because they are able to enthusiastically consent and withdraw consent without fear. Meanwhile, a person in an abusive relationship can almost never give true consent, regardless of how vanilla the sex is- how can you give proper consent if you're afraid of your partner and what he'll do if you don't consent? Even if the women technically gave consent for what was done to them, I would find it extremely hard to believe that, given their circumstances, it wasn't at all coercive.
And I do disagree with Fleur a bit at the end. If you invite someone to have sex and, premeditated, deliberately, push past the boundaries you know they have set for you? I think that's at least sexual assault, if not outright rape or abuse. If it was done accidentally, that's one thing. But if you're doing it on purpose? You're committing a crime. If she'd found the right person, maybe it would have been okay, but she didn't. Probably traumatized some poor ponies.
Urgh. Death of the author is such a complicated subject. Personally, I'd have a hard time purchasing any of his books, or taking them out of a library. I don't want any money going toward him if I can help it. Then again, I might be a particular hardliner on the issue- I don't even buy Brandon Sanderson's books since I found out he was a Mormon bc I don't even want to indirectly give money to the LDS.
Personally, ever since JK Rowling, I've developed a pretty healthy skepticism toward celebrities. I don't think there's any celebrity I would be devastated about anymore. I just half expect it all the time. I'll trust people. Not celebrities.