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Twilight asks Celestia an existential question about legacy and immortality during an unforgettable luncheon.
Coverart is not owned by me, all credit of the cover art belongs magnaluna .
This is my entry for twelfth bimonthly twilestia contest.
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Actually, quite an interesting philosophical topic. Immortality is as interesting as what lies beyond the shroud of death. Humanity will always reason about this and will not come to an answer until the very end of time.
Now, on to the fanfic itself: it's interesting that Celestia was at first casual about the question and only then noticed that Twilight was worried about the death of many of her loved ones, while she continued to live and remain young. Personally, I think that in this situation there are no right and wrong decisions, however, the decision to translate everything into humor seems quite favorable.
In general, I don’t know who started this topic with the immortality of alicorns, and somehow it doesn’t matter. Personally, I think that alicorns are something like elves who live very, very long, always retaining youthful beauty, but they can be injured and even killed unless natural death occurs sooner.
All the best to the author and more inspiration.
A nice story, and I always enjoy more Twilestia, especially when they’re on equal ground like this. We need more retirement Celestia stories, it’s just so fun to see her laid-back.
11272956
I can jive with that take. Immortal, but not invulnerable or invincible. We do at least know that Celestia can be wounded and Luna can be sunburnt, and if you count the "Ail-icorn" short, that's three strikes against invulnerability.
There's another story with the same title that… goes in a very different direction, which is certainly worth the read (not linking here because that's a rather di** move), but this is a nice version of the serious take on the question. It's one of those things that we never really got a canon answer for— will Twilight live forever while the rest of the Mane 6 die (we see that they age, so they're likely to die— AJ and Pinkie would probably take the longest if we go by Granny Smith)? What will Twilight do when that happens?
We know Gen 5 takes place in the same universe, so did all the alicorns eventually reach their 'peak' and finally bite it? Or are all of them (and likely Discord and potentially Spike) still alive and just kinda… let things go as they felt they were meant to? Even if it turned out poorly? I'm hoping the writers address that going forward.
11273169
Yeah, I've always had that take on it, too. No death by natural causes and no signs of aging, but not immune to a physical injury like stabbing or a well-executed spell. At least in the Gen 4 era.
11273265
Wasn’t aware there was another story with the same title, I had just been listening to Queen and it stuck
I think I may have implicitly wrote this to address the criticism of Twilight for letting the G5 world happen but I’m sure that show will soon explain what did actually happen.
My headcanon on Alicorn immortality is similar, they are like elves from the lord of the rings, they can be killed but just not by old age. My other theory is that they age extremely slowly and just fade over a long period of time.
11273265
Funnier thing.. there are FOUR stories named that, And a couple using it as chapter name. Queen are just that great :P
11273599
Everybody loves Queen, it’s the law
11273272
Or like said elves, they became mortal when magic faded (that's Tolkien's headcanon, he had wrote about it).
11273272
Do a sequel named 'Princesses of the Universe'. ^^
If you have a brain, any disadvantages of immortality are only temporary trifles.
But there is another part of the so called immortality problem the saying goodbye part. Twilight might want to be there for everyone but she can't and being a princess is going to make it harder to have friends than before.
11272956
11274057
Interesting that I should see this story so soon after watching the "Mortality Paradox" episode of "The Orville".
When works of speculative fiction handle the topic of immortality, so many of them will either take the stance that "death gives life meaning" is unquestionably the correct philosophy and anyone who says otherwise is just too big a wuss to accept that they're going to die, or send the message that pursuing immortality is inherently immoral because the only feasible method of achieving it in-universe requires killing or otherwise harming others.
This episode acknowledges that immortality may have drawbacks, but simply lays out both sides of the issue and leaves viewers to think for themselves.
11275033
complete nonsense. Only an idiot would think that 1 death of a dying person is not worth it to save another dying person. there is even a separate cognitive distortion for this immoral point of view.
I have never met anyone weaker than a person who cannot achieve thing, therefore denigrates what he wants so much and is too stupid to admit it.
I have heard of the Tragedy of Darth Pelagius the Wise.
Pretty good story.
A few run-on sentences that could use commas, but overall grammar and spelling is good.
I like the simplicity of the conversation showing the connection between the two. Though Celestia feels a bit more dire than her character usually is.
Still. Overall, I liked it.
11275216
“It’s not a story the Jedi would tell you. It’s a sith legend.”
Glad you enjoyed! Some of the lackluster editing was a result of me trying to get this out before the competition deadline
But still thanks!
this was so adorable and cute, yet also moving. Going on my comfort reads shelf
and, I wish the best for you and your grandmother
11281592
Thank you very much!!!
Mmm.
Well, in the end it is still princessing out of the question.
The immortality seeker story is inconsistent and misinterpreted by Celestia herself. It says that the dude cared not about literal immortality, but the twisted interpretation of legacy-immortality, set to work on the literal and didn't get the legacy. The lesson is not that you should not be obsessed with the future at all, but you should know what you want and how to achieve it.
Also, I have a story of my own.
Benevolum the Sane was a pony of kindest heart. He spent all his life working hard to help all the ponies around, and while at first his deeds were unnoticed, later he became famous in his town, bringing it prosperity not even magic of most talented unicorns could achieve, as they said. However, as the time went on, Benevolum grew old, he did not aged well. His family, his friends and all the town ponies begged him to stop pretending to be yong and finally care of himself, but he refused. Benevolum answered them that one should not try to prolong his life, and it is better to make use of the time they were given. So a few more years passed, and finally, a pony of kindest heart turned into a corpse useful only to feed worms and plants. All the happiness Benevolum might have had in the future, all the good he might have done if he lived longer were lost forever because mortality, aging and health issues belong to the special kind of problems you should not ever solve.
11297299
I like this second story. And it's a really good point, too.
As for my own opinion... I liked the story a lot, but I disagree. Partially. Maybe.
See, the thing is... Celestia clearly knows who she's dealing with. She knows Twilight's ticks. And as GreatDragonLord said, diffusing this situation with humor was probably the best shot she had, and she took it. Which is understandable, but also leaves room for interpretation. Specifically: That what she said is not actually her true opinion on the matter.
Because she lived for millennia.
Her 'advice' is basically: Carpe diem. Live life to its fullest. But she overshoots. She generalizes and simplifies it too much. You can't always do what you want to. And you shouldn't. You can't always indulge in your vices and urges and wishes. And you shouldn't. If everyone did that, society would collapse. If she - the Princess of Equestria - did that... society would collapse. Sometimes, you just have to brace for it, clench your teeth and trudge through the dull parts. You have to clean your room. Do your homework. Do your taxes. Apologize to your spouse. Not lash out when someone is rude while you need to get your groceries. Do your laundry. Get up in the morning to follow your work routine. And none of these tasks are usually especially thrilling or desirable. You don't enjoy them. But you have to do it anyway. Because these dull parts are part of life as well. They are part of 'maintenance', if you will. And maintenance is critically important.
So no. You can't just live your life to the fullest each and every day. And Twilight's aides are probably right about being a good example in public. That obviously doesn't mean she can't indulge occasionally. And that's the point.
Celestia is painting with black and white. But life has a nasty habit of working with lots and lots of grays. So many aspects of life are about 'finding balance' between extremes. And honestly, I think she knows that. She lived too long to not know that. She was just comforting Twilight, I think. Which is perfectly fine.
As a side note, some other interesting things to think about when it comes to immortality:
If acquiring immortality would not harm anyone, would that actually make any difference? Would that be 'better'? Because if ONE got it... others would want it too. After all, many fear death, for many reasons. And depending on how exactly that immortality can be acquired, how easy it is to get once a way has been found, that could inevitably pose serious issues. Overpopulation being the first that comes to mind.
Then there's something like: How does this immortality even work? Maybe it involves some kind of regeneration, similar to what the Doctor undergoes in Doctor Who? If so, maybe Celestia doesn't truly die, she just... reincarnates, basically. What does that mean? What does that change?
And lastly, there's the thought of memory. I'm not a neurologist. What I know about how our memory works is limited, and two decades old. But from what I remember, there's not exactly 'endless' space up there in our heads. Our capacity to remember is limited. And really, why should she have the ability to remember what she ate for breakfast six thousand years ago? Just how precise is her memory? Maybe she is as old as time itself, and just doesn't remember being there when that first blast spewed matter into the void? Which inevitably means that some day, some thousands of years in the future, she will probably not remember this lovely day in the café anymore.
I've rarely seen anyone talk about memory when it comes to immortality. Living forever doesn't necessarily include remembering everything. And if you would remember everything... goodness, I pity that poor sod. Because the weight of millennia bearing down on a single mind, how is it supposed to not break eventually?
And after all that rambling, I reiterate my initial assessment: Very lovely story, I quite enjoyed reading it.
Thank you.
11300905
And this is princessing out of the question too. If this is the final answer, then this answer is bad as I already said. If it is just a joke to stop twilighting, then why don't we get the true solution? Is Celestia going to watch Twlight and suppress this topic forever? Would Twilight be actually fooled and never return to it on her own? If she would, I'm disappointed with her too. (Also, I'm not going to try reading the author's thoughts, but did he avoid the "outliving friends" approach on purpose?)
Speaking of one immortal as a proof that others can be too, read this. Be wary of weird headcanons though. How Celestia dealt with the immortality seekers who came to her during the 1000 years is also a good question. I mean, I don't know if anyone wrote about this, people seem to be obsessed with Twilight-outliving-friends.
And the memory too. I even wanted to say that we writers should leave this to scientists and preach for all the advantages so people would at least accept the goal as something good. But yeah, working on specific cases of "Here is a problem, I think it's unsolvable, so don't even try" is needed too.
Overall, thanks. I'm honestly surprised. Maybe I'll finally write a real big story on this topic. (Sounds as if this comment section is under my fic already
)
11301327
I don't think it is 'just' a joke. Humor is a tool, to be wielded with intention, like everything else. I think in this instance, it was a quick fix. A patch for a bigger issue. Something to buy her time. I see Celestia as someone who is used to having time to plan ahead. To plan her approach on issues. Maybe this surprised her - the author implied as much. And this was her quick getaway, so that she may address it in the future again, on her own terms. So no, I don't think she's going to play this game forever. Just for now, in this instance. Because frankly, you don't expect Twilight to be mollified with this forever (or even for long), and neither do I.
I obviously don't know either, but it's easy to imagine, is it not? The entire 'outliving your friends'-thing has been done to death. Of course it's something so profound that usually, when addressing this topic, you eventually have to take a stance on it. But I can see why one would try to shove it to the sidelines, lest the voice in the reader's head starts 'been there, done that' as a mantra.
Thank you for the recommendation. I'll look into it.
I don't think it's necessarily about 'accepting'/changing opinions. Many people have very solid opinions. And I mean 'solid' as in 'unchanging/unwilling to change'. And it doesn't hurt to occasionally take a step back and consider that some things are just not set in stone. A fresh angle, a new perspective, that might already be enough to keep the blindness at bay that comes with such a rigid set of opinions. And 'immortality might be good' doesn't mean it is. It's just that. A possibility. And I like to think that we should keep our minds open to possibilities whenever possible, and as much as possible. Helps creativity along, too.
11301343
But then the story is incomplete, and that was my initial point. Celestia faces a problem, applies a quick fix... and that's all?
It's not about "profound", it's just a very likely context to speak about immortality through Twilight and MLP in general, IMO. With how Twilight became obsessed with friendhip and the Mane 5 friendship in particular in later canon (I mean, presenting the M6 friendship as something super-strong and special might be fanon, but not after s9 finale), it is borderline OoC for her to ignore this side. Maybe not use Twilight at all then, try to go through the elder princesses on their own, like young Celestia asking Starwirl or saying same things to one of the immortality seekers I told about or whatever.
I'm not sure how this is related to the quote from my previous comment it answers. You say things I'm already agreeing with.
11301402
Maybe. I think so, yes. Of course that train of thoughts leads to another issue entirely: Stories are windows into worlds imagined by the author. The author is, as the storyteller, ultimately the one who decides what part of this world he wants to show. And no matter how hard you smush your nose against the glass, there's a hard limit to what you will be able to see. The intention might very well have been to show a funny, adorable interaction, or to trigger others to think about the issue on a deeper level, or something else entirely. We can't read minds, so we can't tell. We can just guess and make our own decisions.
I don't think it's incomplete. It shows what was meant to be shown. The author could, reasonably, write a follow-up to address how she truly deals with the issue. If the author wanted that, and if he even agreed that there is an issue.
I could write a story about a couple talking about why they want to break up. And I could end it before the breakup actually happens. I don't even have to be ambivalent about it. It's my choice, as the storyteller. Might be a tad frustrating for some readers, but then again, maybe showing the breakup never had been the point to begin with. It's all very open to... discussion and interpretation. For better or worse.
Hm. Fair point, yes.
Sorry.
Thinking straight gets harder when your brain is being cooked.
At first I though I was re-reading that one crackfic where Twilight kept throwing herself off mountains to see if she could die. I swear the setup is almost identical.
11273169
).
I never liked the "I AM INVINCIBLE" type thing where you could try atomizing the hero and they'd cough a bit of dust, wipe off their shirt and be back in fighting form with at worst a cartoony lump on their noggin feels like a cop out (ooh you wrote yourself into a corner where no sane human could possibly survive oh wait he's a SUPERman, okay problem solved
The idea that they are just incredibly long lived or slow aging is much more appealing from both a character and world building perspective.
11300905
That is an excellent point, I sometimes struggle with lingering guilt over some REALLY stupid stuff I did in HS over a decade ago, I've had fights with my younger brother, how much worse would it be if I had to think about those fights for 1000 years? that's just depressing
As to the connection from Twilight in G4 and G5, one of my favorite stories suggested that Twilight's reign brought about the Equestrian equivalent of the second Industrial Revolution, jumping Equestria from pastoral pseudo 19th century farms to steam and early electricity...this in turn led to some societal shifts, for example why bother learning a complex light spell when you can flip a switch...and eventually, why bother sitting outside talking with your neighbors when you can have discussions with friends that have similar interests on the other side of the globe?
Am I the only one on this site that likes immortal characters?