• Member Since 24th Jul, 2011
  • offline last seen May 30th

FifthAlicorn



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Everypony knows the story about Nightmare Moon, and how she was defeated by the Elements of Harmony at the hooves of Twilight Sparkle and her five friends from Ponyville. What most ponies are unaware of, however, is how the situation unfolded from the point of view of Nightmare Moon and her counterpart, Luna of Equestria.

Chapters (2)
Comments ( 33 )

Fifth's favourite ice cream flavour is vinegar. :scootangel:

8

Very well, then.

:trollestia:

This is amazing, I'm looking forward to seeing the other part(s) from you. :yay:

Ps. Luna is best pony.

198923

I can't tell you what that means, friend. I mostly wrote this on a whim. Had the idea and eventually decided to write it. It pleases me greatly that you enjoyed it that much.

For anyone else reading this, I would greatly enjoy any constructive criticism you could offer. This is my first project as a writer, and so I would greatly appreciate the help. Thanks a lot to everyone for taking the time to read this!

~Fifth

i liked it a lot!!! but there's something that irks me... the known elements in celestia's time do not include magic.

quote the book that Twilight reads, "an unknown sixth element triggered by a spark".
/but in the storybook in episode one, the princess of the sun is depicted with a tiara... that got me confused too:twilightangry2:, hmmm. Or am I sadly ignorant about something:twilightoops::twilightoops:??

But overall, I really like your writing:pinkiehappy:

One thing that honestly bugs me -- and since I haven't caught up with the actual series canon yet, I may simply be missing something -- is the depiction of the Elements of Harmony as pretty judgmental and antagonistic for, well, elements of Harmony. Is it just me, or are they not really doing such a great job of living up to their supposed individual virtues themselves here?

Brilliant Story, I like this story's version of Luna a lot. It is a really enjoyable read and I look forward to reading more soon.:heart:

199792

Hi there, sorry for the delayed response.

I can certainly see where you're coming from with that, and I certainly agree with you. Allow me to share my thoughts and reasoning with you.

It's pretty much canon that the Elements of Harmony are the greatest force on the planet. And you're definitely correct, "Harmony" is indeed in their name. But to quote the wonderful world of Marvel, with great power comes great responsibility, and the Elements have the greatest responsibility of all. As such, it's my honest opinion that they should therefore have a certain impartiality to the ebb and flow of the universe. While they would certainly never allow evil creatures such as Nightmare Moon or Discord to wield their Awesome power, they still have to limit who, and to what extent, they let access them.

This is where it gets iffy. As Celestia is the Bringer of the Light, the font of morality, yada yada, in Equestria, naturally they'd be inclined to lend her their power, trusting that she'd use it responsibly. But in dealing with Nightmare Moon, she did not. To take a life, or rather, to do the next worst thing, is the antithesis of Harmony. Because of her actions, Celestia could no longer be trusted to use them in the ultimate name of harmony, and thus was barred from them forever.

Harmony isn't always about happy happy fun fun, but it's also about balance at the end of the day. Being what they are, the Elements will do what they must to ensure the scales are not tipped. It's certainly about being judgmental, as you said, but it's what must be done. It's not so much about antagonism, but rather forced neutrality and emotionlessness. The fact that they're not organic beings helps with this.

Well, I'm fairly certain I rambled there for a bit. I have a bad tendency for that sometimes. I hope I answered your question, but if not, feel free to discuss. I'm always open to suggestions.

As always, thanks for reading!

~Fifth Alicorn

And yet one would think that a collective that includes among others the elements of Kindness and Generosity would at least offer Celestia a genuine chance to redeem herself rather than act like an antagonistic Dungeons & Dragons game master going "oh, you committed an evil act? Too bad, your paladin powers are now gone...FOREVER!!! Bwa-ha-ha-haaa...!"

Ah, well. Such are the hazards of making your major cosmic plot devices sentient in the first place, I suppose (I've yet to see any evidence that they are in the series itself, and I am on the second season and past the fight against Discord now, so I gather that that's your own original concept). Over the years of encountering relevant fiction I've found that quasi-omnipotent jerkasses with handwaved excuses for why they act the way they do are a dime a dozen while writing a credible powerful force for good -- however one wants to precisely define that ideal -- seems to be actually quite difficult.

A-ny-way...I suppose that what I'm trying to say is that it's not the approach I would have taken to explaining why Celestia and Luna can't use the Elements of Harmony themselves anymore, myself. I'm still interested in seeing where the story is going to go next, though...and in finding out why the same Elements appear to be less harsh on the next generation of wielders, come to think of it. :raritywink:

212104

You speak truthfully. I never really considered that when I was typing this. And yes, sentient Elements of Harmony was my concept idea, but I doubt I'm the first to use it. However, writing around previously established can be quite difficult, and will undoubtedly run into many pratfalls when under close scrutiny. In regards to your first paragraph, while I would love to establish another instance for why Celly lost her Element rights, that's a whole different fic altogether, and would ultimately have no place in the story I was trying to write (I realize that sounds kinda jackassey on my part, and I assure you that wasn't my intention :pinkiehappy: )

Regardless, I do thank you for the constructive criticism. I'm currently doing minor edits on Part 2, and I hope that, when I post it, it may answer some questions you have. I'm currently finishing my edits for Deep Dark as I type this, but expect the thrilling conclusion within the week.

Thanks again for reading, and I hope to hear from you again when this is all over.

Best,

~Fifth Alicorn

A well told version of events from NMM/Luna's Point of view. An enjoyable little story and pretty good for your first crack at actual writing :twilightsmile::pinkiehappy::ajsmug::pinkiesmile::scootangel::yay:

Wow, Granny Smith sure is old.

232021

I actually wrote the first part well before that awesome (personally one of my favorites) episode came out. My intent was to be a tiny little pun, implying Sweet Apple Acres (then Acre, singular) has been in business for a long time. Unfortunately, canon happened and I forgot to change it when I posted. Whoops!

232031

Yeah it's alright, I guess that as much.

Just needed to make that joke.

Good job with your frist story

I love this story. I seriously do. It's awesome. I think it's in my top 3 favorite fics. I wish I could write as well as you can. Oh well, practice make perfect, and if I want to write a book someday, I'm going to need a lot of it. U haz talent.:yay::twilightsmile:

Your writing is pretty good:twilightsheepish:
I was going to point out the Ponyville bloop, but someone beat me to it:twilightsheepish:
Though I need to tell you I was tempted to skip some parts that were simply a retell of the episode, and you could have shortened it; I made the same mistake before too, and I realized reading lots of stuff I know already is pretty much a chore. You've got talent, and I hope you continue to write! :twilightsheepish:

235064

I'm reeeeaaaallllllllly glad you mentioned that, because I'd been meaning to address it, but it's usually considered bad form to debunk your own work in an Author's Note.

That was a big issue with one of my pre-readers as well, the whole Everfree Forest scene. She mentioned that it felt like she was just "running through the paces" and stuff like that. I'm going to take this opportunity to explain myself.

When I first got the inspiration to write this, I was literally just thinking "Hey, it would be cool to show the pilot from NMM's point of view." She kind of went down like Boba Fett, and I wasn't terribly satisfied. Then I decided to expand upon it, so it included Luna's time on the moon and then further into what Celestia was doing at the time. That spawned part one.

When I was writing part two, the confrontation between NMM and Celestia was easily my favorite part. After I delved into the actual pilot, however, after having to check back with the episode to make sure I wasn't skipping anything, I quickly realized, "Holy crap this is arduous." After I finished the first draft, I tried to go back and stick in as much comedy as I could to make it more interesting. Luna's quips, the build-up for Pinkie's song, et cetera. However, I still realize that it was tedious to read, and I sincerely apologize. Should I continue to write, I certainly won't do that again, for my sake as much as yours.

Thank you very much for your feedback, and I'm glad you enjoyed the story regardless.

Best,

~Fifth Alicorn

PS Thinking back, that Ponyville thought from Luna was actually derived from "Solar Flare" by Dragryphon. I work edits for her, so I decided to take a few liberties and do some name dropping and tiny homages from SF, "War of the Night" included. She only hurt me a little bit for that!

235516
It was inevitable to tell the parts after Nightmare appeared and Twilight and pals started looking for the Elements, and I do agree that Luna's inner dialogue made it much better, though some parts describing Twi & co. could have been shortened slightly :twilightblush: Don't get me wrong, I really liked this, and I'd like to read anything that you write in the future :raritywink:

...I never did get back to commenting on this, did I?

Okay, with the story finished, my main sticking point is still the characterization of the Elements. As they come across, they must have appointed themselves the ultimate high judge, jury and executioner of Equestria at some point -- or at least there's no mention of anybody else doing so, so it's not clear that they actually have any sort of formal authority at all. And their actions make it clear that any inherent claim to the moral high ground they might make stands on no more solid ground than that of Nightmare Moon of all people: at the end of the day, it's back to "we judge you according to our own arbitrary rules because we can and there's nothing you can do about it", i.e., naked might makes "right" all over again. (There's also the fact that according to them Celestia banishing her sister was an unforgivable crime, but for them to outright destroy Nightmare Moon, who is clearly a sentient, thinking entity in her own right here, is just a-ok simply because she's not "a full-fledged citizen of this planet". Nice double standard there...also a great way to encourage tourism, I'm sure.) With Elements of "Harmony" like these, I honestly fear for the future of this version of Equestria.

Which is kind of sad, really, because I found the rest of the story rather enjoyable. Characterization of everypony who actually is a pony is decent, the overall plot works well enough for me, and I even got about as good a laugh out of Nightmare Moon's "foolproof master plan" as Luna herself did. (Really didn't see NMM's line of reasoning coming there and I'd watched that episode not so long before. :rainbowlaugh:) It's just the All-Powerful Elements of High-And-Mightiness that I could honestly do without, and I'll even go out on a limb and say that the story in and of itself might be improved by the Elements either returning to being nonsentient plot devices (in part because the whole point of Twilight's "the spirits of the Elements are right here!" moment is kind of lost if the Elements are made out to be wholly distinct and different entities from their bearers in the first place, anyway) or at least being written more sympathetically.

Well done! I've read more than a couple Luna/NMM banishment stories, but this one has got to be the best of them.

311494

The delay in this reply is a combination of thinking of a plausible answer, and also because I may have forgotten it was here. By all means, I planned on getting back to you on such a well thought-out response.

I suppose the best response (and you have quite the force of logic behind you, I just want to say. I greatly respect that) is that I may have misportrayed the Elements' jurisdiction. My own belief (both in canon and in my fic) was that their jurisdiction was limited by their own power. Yes, they can ban Celly from using the Elements ever again because they feel she misused them. They can effectively cut her off because they want to (essentially) and in an effort to limit their potentially destructive influence on the Earth. However, stuff of the like is about it.

As for your judge, jury and executioner comment, though, that's where I'll clarify. To re-state, they have jurisdiction as it pertains to their own abilities. However, if Rainbow decided to, say, murder a pegasus named Ace Swift by way of thunder cloud in the middle of the Everfree at night, by no means would a giant rainbow descend from the sky and exact swift justice (although imagining it right now looks hilarious). The earthly subjects are allowed to use their own justice systems and methods to do whatever they want. Hope that makes sense. If not, let me know. I'm not sure if I'm just rambling.

Regarding your concerns about NMM's destruction, though, I DID have a bout of foresight with that subject. I believe that I stated in Part 1 that NMM was being constructed of dark magic and rituals. As such, she is not a flesh-and-blood pony, hence the "not a full-fledged-citizen" part. Accordingly, that is why the Elements were allowed to be rid of her. Not so much "destruction" as "purge", if you will. Wanted her to be an entity of nothing but rage, malice and black magics, which would (to me) justify the Rainbow of Light destroying her.

Hope this cleared things up, and let me know your objections. I do appreciate this, really, and I'm glad that my Trolluna moment with Pinkie's song made you laugh. ^_^

Best,

~Fifth Alicorn

I find myself capable of turning many a gilded phrase,
Yet in my heart I yearn to give this story praise.

Wordless speeches stricken dumb,
for a response my heart I plumb.

And yet I feel any treasure I might plunder,
is naught but a mispoken blunder.

So I shall say, if you think it not too far flung,
that this author is gifted with a silver tongue.

First of all: Luna is best Pony!

About the story: I'm very careful with what I read, I should not stand too harsh against canon, shouldnt interfere with what I see as the general theme of the show (in case of murder, swearing etc.) and should work well in conjunction with what I read so far. I know, I'm picky. Cant help it with the high standards.
So, that said, I really, really enjoyed your story. Believable backstory on the moon, great combo of Luna and NMM. Also how your included the dialogues from "Elements Of Harmony II", very well done. Had a good laugh when NMM does the thing with the 'scary tree faces' and Luna makes a joke of it.:yay:
Props for making little future references to "Luna Eclipsed", the appearance and voice mainly.

:moustache::moustache::moustache::moustache::moustache: out of 5

716921

I love it when somebody finds my story after months of having it published, and they still write a glowing review/comment like you just did. Seriously, I really appreciate, and I'm glad you enjoyed the story as much as you did. Sadly, I hit my third strike on EqD, so it's not going to be able to make it there

Your story is so god damn theoretically believable I just made it my head canon :rainbowderp: which is to say your story is very impressive, I don't make head canons at all :twilightoops:

recently found story......story=awesome.....great job....nuff said

Just wanted to say I loved the point of veiw. It would be fun to see you do more of them from diferent pony/creature/whatevers in the series.

4977051 Thank you! I just posted a new story about Chrysalis if you're interested

Hello! If you're interested, I posted a review of this story for the #FebFIMFanFicLove Fic Exchange. In summary, though: despite being overtaken by canon a bit, I generally enjoyed this. I liked what you did with Nightmare Moon and Luna (it seems you anticipated the "Nightmare Rarity" comic arc a bit!) and the Elements, as well as the scenes from between Luna's banishment and the Mane Six's victory. Maybe a little too much verbatim show dialogue, and the Ebon Mare Syndrome was strong in this one (especially later on) but it was a story I did like, in spite of this not being a favourite topic of mine. Better give it a like, then! :twilightsmile:

Hello there! I'm IncoherentOrange of WRITE, and I'm here to review your story as requested. As you haven't noted any particular emphases for this review, I'll try to cover at least a bit of everything.

The bit of everything that's most important to attracting a reader is the title page, of course. This looks quite solid to me, but one thing is missing: this story has no tags whatsoever. Maybe none of them really fit, but it definitely hampers the number of people that will stumble upon your story, as it would show on no tag-related list. Not sure how many users make use of those lists, but it might be something to consider.

I suppose I'll give a bit of a structural overview, as I usually do. For the vast majority of it, the sentence and paragraph structures are not confusing or jarring in any way, which makes for a smooth and immersive reading experience. Minor mistakes pop up in the form of a missing letter or extra punctuation mark (an instance or two of "it's" instead of "its" appeared), along with a few extra or missing spaces where there ought not to be. Some descriptive filler words (colour of the pony in question, etc.) are repeated rather often ("lavender" is used twice in as many sentences once), but that's a minor gripe. There is nothing else I feel like I need to point out, and it might not be worth the time to carefully pick out the mistakes in a story that you've moved on from years ago.

The first three quarters of the story are not unlike a rehash of the first episode's lore. Regardless, it's got its own dashes of creative flair and character interpolation, which made it more interesting to read than I thought it would be. It's also irrelevant that some of it has been rebuked by more recent canon, which is to be expected. After all, you wrote this years ago. Though it might have made more sense for the interactions between Nightmare and Luna to be more serious than they were, their banter served as excellent relief for the story's inherent melancholy, so I'd support that choice.

The final quarter, however, I find less pleasing. A nearly verbatim recreation of parts of the series' premier episode does make sense, but it's kind of boring, and it didn't feel like the Luna/Nightmare duality added enough of an additional dimension to make these scenes particularly interesting. Some of the conversions of the heavily visual method of storytelling that the cartoon used are not very effective, either. It does wrap up effectively, however.

While it doesn't end on the strongest note, this story is well-constructed from its pacing to its overall execution, and was enjoyable throughout. I don't have much in terms of revision advice, I'm afraid, and most of it would amount to polish rather than repair, as this story is sturdy enough that I can't definitely recommend any larger changes, though if you feel like making any, the latter half of the second part is probably where they'd go to most use.

Keep writing. If this is what your first story looks like, then I'd recommend trying to put more out, because you seem to have a knack for this. Don't let interruptions stop you forever. I know I did, and I regret it so.

~IncoherentOrange

You can’t make an omelet without viciously murdering a few eggs now, can you?

You earned my fav with that quote.

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