Inked Moongleam
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I'm afraid this will piss off both foalcon haters and trans haters. The premise looks interesting, though.
10977211
An increase in early preemptive dislikes is fully expected. I decided I didn't care.
Elder Gods do not approve of this.
10977216
Guess that's the best attitude.
10977211
If only you'd added Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton, murder/necro, Aryanne, and excessive amounts of diaper fetish, I'm sure this would be a contender for the downvote record. Super Trampoline wouldn't stand a chance.
That was a joke. Never write that.
10977211 Really, do they even need a reason to be pissed off? They tend to hate those things in general, so this would just give them more fuel.
10977390 I'm all for the diaper fetish! Everything else can go!
10977400
Diaper fetish is endearing and cute except that it always seems to end with adults shitting themselves in public, and as a wolf with a highly developed sense of smell and a normal aversion to solid human waste I can understand why most people don't enjoy that particular thing.
10977390
The sad thing is that this is probably one of my best writing thus far, but most reader will skip it just because a bunch of people can't stand seeing the t-word in the description.
10977390
Donald and Hillary in diapers, murdering, raping, and eating Aryanne. Sounds awful even to me and I wrote Anon fucking Vignette Valencia's corpse.
In fact, my next story is gonna be surprisingly vanilla.
10977400
I prefer regular watersports. Also, I think many of them secretly enjoy foalcon but can't admit it because their anti-foalcon bros are literally insane.
10977390
Okay.
10977429 Yeah, I'm not into scat or watersports either.
10977440 So why not just make the character futa instead of trans? Makes much more sense and you don't risk alienating and pissing off people.
Damn, this was great and I can't wait to see more. Really hot and well written.
10977539
Because we need more trans representation. I can take some dislikes for that.
10977539
Futa is more like intersex than transgender; it's a physical thing rather than a (probably) mental thing.
And as Inked Moongleam said, more representation is good.
My only issue with this story is the way you refer to Vitale as having colt parts. Maybe that's her perspective on it, but they way I see it, she has filly parts; it's just that in her case her filly parts are a penis (and the rest).
I didn't like it. Not for the foalcon or the trans. Well, I take that back. There are some reasons you could say are related to trans. You didn't write this character as trans. It is closer to futa. Nowhere does this character strike me as trans other than you say so. So the reasons I don't like it?
- You assume it is getting downvoted because of trans.
- You claim trans needs more representation, but I can assure you they do NOT want to be associated with a cliche 12 year old character that gets BJs from a 9 year old.
- Casual foalcon like it is the most common thing in your universe.
The story itself is convoluted. Just simple porn logic for the sake of porn. But there aren't that many grammar mistakes and no typos I caught. At least you got that going for you. You are getting hate from the foalcon people. Stop assuming there is a large group of trans haters. There are other trans stories here with a very positive ratio.
I haven’t seen a thread this toxic since the first time I tried to take up sewing.
10977539
I'm not a fan of scat but watersports is fine by me. Urine isn't messy, especially not with a diaper, and it's literally the most sterile thing that comes out of an organism.
10977440
More people are upset by foalcon than trans representation, those who are upset by the foalcon are probably upset to see trans representation being used in foalcon, and those who are normally upset by trans representation are less likely to be bothered by it when it's porn. I would assume most of the downvotes are because this is foalcon (or because they don't like the story, but probably less of that than the foalcon thing).
10977539
10977574
10977711
All of this needs a response. Saying, "You didn't write this character as trans. It is closer to futa," is misguided at best and totally confused at worst. "Futanari" is a genre of pornography. It is not accurate to use it as a label for a person, whether or not people do this to refer to characters in that genre. People are intersex or transgender.
So "futa" is not a real thing, but if it were, it would clearly fall under the transgender or intersex umbrellas. It's a sex term, so most trans people won't appreciate it. It can mean "super unrealistic intersex characteristics" such as a working penis and vagina on the same person (the vagina of most mammals would have to bisect the penis root, so that's not happening, and that's not how intersex characteristics manifest), or it can mean "trans woman with primary male sex characteristics and secondary female sex characteristics", which used to be called "non-operative transsexual" but is really just a trans woman who hasn't had GRS. This used to be "shemale" in porn (which is a word most trans women like even less than futa). I think the Japanese version of "shemale" is "newhalf", which is no better than "shemale", but outside of Japan people commonly use "futa" to mean both genres of porn.
The former "kind of futa" is either intersex or intersex and transgender but it doesn't exist naturally anyway. The latter is just a trans female with particular genitals. Even if a person could be "futanari", it wouldn't make sense to call a child "futa" because they wouldn't have breasts unless you just mean "unrealistic hermaphrodite" (and again, intersex is the right term, not "herm"). For a horse filly I admit it might make some sense because male horses do not have nipples. That said, this is still transgender or intersex. "Futa" is not a real thing. It's a type of porn.
These days you can't talk about your genitals easily. Due to the importance of teaching people that gender is social (as opposed to one's physical sex), the idea that you have any business knowing what a trans person has down there is bad and something the community has tried to dispel. Unfortunately, this does make it harder for those of us who are open about it. It'd be nice if there were a safe way to say "I have breasts and a functional dick" if your identity includes this, which mine does because I am a "shemale" by choice (again, never call trans women this without their consent). But that isn't where we're at right now socially, and there's so much anti-trans sentiment out there that it isn't happening anytime soon.
The bottom line is "futa" is not a consistent term and it does not map to reality. It's a fetish category. Somepony may be intersex, or they may be transgender and have taken steps to change their bodies, in which case that's what you're referring to. But they're not "futa" anymore than somepony can be "watersports" or "bondage". It's a porn category, not a person.
10977610
I've seen people take issue with this before. The problem is that there isn't a simple way to refer to male sex without it being confused for male gender, and people have been unwilling to define terms that discriminate between the two because the primary concern is treating people with respect and allowing them to define themselves. Some trans women are fine with referring to primary sexual characteristics as "male" or "boy", while others aren't. I agree that euphamisms like "colt parts" aren't the best idea when you can just say "penis", but we don't all view it as a slur.
10977711
Finally an opinion that’s honest without being rude. You’re an asset to humanity my friend.
10977711
Having written and watched a lot of trans stories, and also having seen caps of people planning to brigade trans stories with downvotes, I can say that there is indeed a substantial group of people who downvote trans stories solely based on the fact that they cover trans issues. I can also say it's relatively recent on Fimfiction that this has been a problem, so most older stories are unaffected. Positive ratio comes mainly from age, exposure, and whether or not it flew under the radar. There were a lot of stories that got vote bombed during the recent P&P event, and I had to deal with trolls in the comments of the two stories I submitted.
So yes, it's a thing. I don't think it is likely a huge factor for this story (in fact some downvotes are likely from people who are upset that there is a trans character in a foalcon story because they like trans representation and hate foalcon), but trans hate is not imaginary and it isn't a wild assumption.
10977762
Certainly. That's why I said that maybe Vitale views it that way. In this story it is her lived experience, and she gets to use just about whatever labels she is most comfortable with.
10977760
If you think this thread is toxic you really have not been on Fimfiction very long. This is a polite discussion.
10977762 If my comment offended you, I apologize. I meant no offense. That was not my intention. In any case, I thank you for correcting me.
She's a doctor and a prostitute?
I love it
I enjoyed the sex scene with the foals but I still wish we got the see the adults in action.
Still an awesome story. Looking forward to more.
10977711
It's perfectly fine to dislike a story if you've read it. As for my statements that this story is getting review-bombed for including a trans character, this is why I think so:
Unfortunately with some stories there is a critical mass of upvote/downvote ratios where after a certain point the amount of downvotes will begin to increase drastically compared to the upvotes. And a fair few of those downvotes will be from people who don't even read and just downvote because "peer pressure".
I'm unsure if it's gonna be the case here, but I hope not.
10978010
If someone thinks a story about a fictional underage trans horse is the reason for trans hate, they'd probably hate anyway, and I'm saying that as a proud enby. Fiction is fiction, reality is another thing.
10978010
I understand your argument. The thing is, you could make that argument for just about anything. Whenever you fall in a category, you will have outsiders ready to associate you with negative connotations. Foalcon? Child porn. Bronies? Retard. Roleplay? Mental illness. Video games? Make people violent. In truth, anyone who plays a GTA game knows that there is essentially nothing in common between button mashing and actual murder. Likewise, anyone who enjoys foalcon can easily see that there is a world of differences between fiction and child porn. If someone told you being a trans brony is a negative portrayal of transgenderism, you'd probably be rather upset, because it's not actually the case.
When I talk about needing representation, I'm not saying this is a relatable trans experience. It's not. It's a fantasy erotic story: it's not meant to be realistic or relatable. It wouldn't be even if I had written the story from the PoV of a straight cis adult male. However, my personal belief is that trans people are normal people, and should be considered as such. I apply this belief in every sphere of my life. I write MLP porn as a part-time hobby, and I wrote the character of Vitale Luster like I would have written any other, and there's no reason to make a big deal out of it.
10977792
You didn't offend me in the slightest, no worries. Just wanted to share, and I'm not very good at doing that without sounding overly enthusiastic.
10978054
You're entitled to your opinion, and that's okay. However, speak for yourself. You do not somehow represent every trans person out there, even if you say so. The simple fact that you're leaving a comment puts you in the extreme minority of most passionate people, regardless of the group you're in.
In 1999, two students entered Columbine High School in Colorado and murdered 13 persons before committing suicide. Following the attack, several lawsuits were deposed against various film and video game companies, arguing that the shooters had been incited to action by the violent media they consumed. These lawsuits were all dismissed, because the court couldn't establish a link between fictional medias and the crimes. Since then, there has been an impressive body of research on the subject, with a focus on long-, mid-, and short-terms behavior changes. The overwhelming conclusion is that media consumption (violent, pornographic, etc.) has virtually no effect on human behavior. Did the Columbine shooters enjoy violent video games? Sure, just like an immense number of good law-abbiding citizens. You have to be careful before making broad arguments based on isolated anecdotes.
My argument about foalcon has nothing to do with 4-legs vs 2-legs, it's about fictional vs real. Could foalcon be different from any other form of fictional media? It's possible, but that doesn't seem particularly likely. If you have access to serious peer-reviewed studies that prove the contrary, please share them. If not, I'd appreciate if you would stop making baseless accusations.
I'm not dismissing your arguments because of a lack of sensitivity. It's because it does not constitute a coherent point.
10978054
Projecting much? I mean, Trick is here. Unless trans people stop being trans once they disagree with you.
10978290
Then why are you still here? Looking for a reason to be offended? Also, "sees me and others as just some dressing to make porn more exotic/flavorful" sounds weird coming from someone who apparently faved a fic starring a well-endowned Zecora (well, I don't complain about that in the comment sections mainly because unlike some people I know that black-coded zebras and lustful trans fillies don't actually exist and thus it's no use to get your knickers in a twist over them).
10978290
That's quite enough. If you want to make a case, do so without resorting to personal insults, baseless assertions, and sweeping generalisations. If someone is forcing you to read this fic at gunpoint, call the police. Otherwise, go do something else and stop harassing random people on the internet.
10978054
Funny you should say that, as that is just one of the many purposes of literature.
I'd suggest reading this webpage --> The Purpose of Literature <-- by LumenLearning to study on the subject. Insightful read.
As I said though, you are partially correct; It is indeed one of the many purposes of literature. However, this is a story written for mature audiences and as such it also expects a bit of maturity from the reader - the ability to differentiate between reality and fiction. If you let a mature-rated piece of literature featuring fictional transgender cartoon horses committing incestuous acts influence your day-to-day decisions... I'd go so far as to suggest you'd steer clear of this kind of material.
Don't listen to the trolls, you write what you wanna write
10978010
You are not the only ambassador for the trans community. You can't speak for the hundreds, maybe thousands, of trans users on this site who aren't here to give their say on the matter. Give your say, and move on.
EDIT: I want to add onto this comment with my thoughts on the matter. I, myself, identify as genderfluid. It's a very sensitive topic for most people, the idea that someone like me can literally shift mentally from a male-oriented life to a female-oriented life. My orientation is one that, like trans, gets a lot of hate and dislike and is always under attack.
That being said, I try not to let it get to me.
Humans are hateful by nature. It's how we're hard wired. People in life are always going to hate. We will never be fully accepted no matter how hard we try. And so, we should accept and appreciate allies whenever we can get them, Banana. The author doesn't dislike trans or LGBT people, and in fact seems to be a staunch ally. We should be appreciating allies where we can find them, and not attacking them for things. The author took the time to write a fanfic about a transgender foal. Me personally, I enjoy the idea of a foal in Equestria discovering this side of them, and transitioning. I think the story is sweet, outside of the smut content (don't mind the smut content, personally). If someone wrote a fic about a foal discovering their genderfluid side, I wouldn't feel hurt or attacked. I would feel grateful to somebody to giving my orientation a more public platform.
It's the internet. Don't spend all your days hating and thinking toxically. Enjoy the fandom, enjoy your days as best you can.
10978054
10978155
I don't want to pull Sweet back into a discussion that is devolving into personal attacks (especially not when I indeed have had people refuse to acknowledge me being trans when I don't side with them on an issue), but I want to be clear I'm not opining on the story itself so please don't drag me into a point of view I haven't expressed—especially not as exemplar for a riposte against somepony in a heated argument. It would be fine to say, "it's not impossible that a trans person could enjoy this story because trans people are not a monolith", but not so much, "hay look Trick Question enjoys this", when I haven't expressed that. I haven't even read this story. I admittedly categorize and bookshelf almost everything I see on Fimfiction, but this isn't the kind of story I generally enjoy reading.
For the record, I don't know if representing trans characters in objectionable porn like this can be a good thing. Of course I want to normalize the existence and worth of transgender children, but it's hard enough to do this with adults when the context is focused on prurient matters, and so much harder with children where the fantasy is not realistic because it would be abusive in real life and as such comes with considerable psychological baggage. The risk in porn is always in whether transgender people are being objectified into a kink, and here it's also a risk with the apparent mental age of the characters. If the fantasy isn't realistic about them being children, it would only seem like this would normalize trans children to a person who views fantasy about safe sex with children as realistic (which is hopefully not what people are doing).
The potential good here is that people who do enjoy this might sympathize with the protagonist being trans, depending on how she's written, or see that "trans people are normal people even in a fantasy case like this", but again, it's hard to do that. I wouldn't consider J.K. Rowling writing trans female characters as nasty, "mannish" villains who endanger women to be good representation of transgender people just because the message "trans people can be anything" is deeply embedded in there somewhere beneath the stereotype she uses to condemn us. In one of my recent stories I have a trans protagonist who is a jerk, and I made very sure to include an exchange like this in the story:
Yes, this is telly, which is bad writing. But I had to make it this level of explicit because this part of the moral of the story is something I could not leave to chance. The fact that the protagonist is a villain doesn't mean the fact that they are trans is the cause; it means being trans means neither that you're a villain or a saint. It just means you're a person.
I think the author's heart is probably in the right place here because I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt, but I have no idea whether or not the inclusion of trans content here does more good that harm. As somepony who has done sociology work at the graduate level, that question is way above my pay grade.
you start way to many sentences with "I"
It's an easy trap to fall into when writing in the first person.
10986518
I actually know very well what transgenderism and gender dysphoria are. This is, however, just a lighthearted clop story, not a dissertation on the definitions of gender identities, and I have no intention to make it so. One thing I can definitely say on the subject is that neither concept is a 'mental illness'.
Also, while Vitale hasn't had a surgery, she does follow a hormone regimen. This is alluded to in this first chapter, and will be discussed further in future releases.
10986518
Good lord. This comment section has done nothing but reveal that people in this fandom don't know the first thing about gender identity, orientation, and proper labels.
As i said in a previous comment, i am genderfluid. That is NOT gender dysphoria. I do not fall under the label of any gender anymore. It's completely possible for people to do this, i am living proof of it if you need it.
And besides, the fact you're using the title of mental illness to describe all this leads me to believe you're a complete utter bigot who doesn't have the first clue about trans issues. So please, for the good of everyone on this website, don't comment this vile stuff. Thanks.
10988583
Uh...thanks for the novel? You could have sent this as a DM to me instead of flooding the comment section. If you want to discuss this further, bring it there, please, and show the author some respect.
10988583
Yes.