• Member Since 7th Jan, 2021
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1jckuhn


T

This story is a sequel to A Secret Admirer 2: Cuddles for Spike


A version of Spike's Sacrifice if the events of "A Secret Admirer" played out. If you haven't read the original yet, I highly recommend you do.

Cover art is by the amazing BiggerNate91

Rated T for moderate descriptions of injuries, blood, character death, sporadic mild language, and dark nightmares.

Other Characters include:

Princess Celestia and Luna
Starlight Glimmer
Thorax
Ember
Discord
Garble
Big Mac
Luster Dawn
Cobalt Blitz (OC)
Tyson and Kimba (OC Dragons)
Sunny Glare (OC)
Aris and Erin (OC)

Chapters (16)
Comments ( 153 )

“I-Is he d-dead?” Ember asked, hesitant to say the last word of her question.

...I don’t know if my heart can handle this version...

If anyone could have done something, it should have been Discord. His powers are almost infinite.

honestly I would have liked to see a story where all the girls reject spike, imagine that your 12 crushes reject you at the same time, that would be interesting to read

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It will also be too depressing to read as well. 😢

As Spike sped towards his targets, Cozy, Tirek, and Chrysalis powered up another blast of magic each. This time, instead of firing individually, they unleashed their blasts all at once. The three seperate blasts quickly connected with one another and it formed the biggest blast of magic that the three evil-doers had ever seen in their lives as it raced toward the pre-teen reptile. Right as the blasts connected, Spike stuck out Grogar’s bell once more, and the villains instantly realized that they had screwed up. The blast hit the bell, it detonated, and was blown to smithereens and enveloped all four of them in a huge surge of magic.

Now That....was one hell of a Manoeuvre, Charging the Weapon like that with their own Blasts, I know how it ends....But, That’s one Badass way to go, why to Go little Bud’.....and hey, Fallow my words: Death....is just the second Beginning....

Amazing. I love that Spike is now an angel and reunited with his birth parents in the heavens.

Chrysalis failed to understand that Spike is in heaven with his parents.

Heaven will not be happy, along with Spike's birth paren.

Can you make it were in what ever form of hell chrysalis gose to make were her punishment is to be tormented and forever deapeted by spike the hero

Yeah I’ve tried but I can’t...my heart just can’t...

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So, you're disembarking here, huh? Well, I can't blame you. This is a sadder version than the original. If you choose to stay, though, it does get happier.

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I don't think there's anything that could make all the feels worth it. Especially not with this kind of story.

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Aw, man. Well, thanks for stickin' it out for this long. I appreciate it. Could you please do me one favor and leave a thumbs up on this story? Thank you.

He had tried to boost Twilight's confidence by banding the Cozy Glow, Chrysalis, and Tirek together under the guise of an ancient, Cornflower blue Ram named Grogar so the lavender Alicorn and her friends could get a confidence boost.

Confidence in what exactly?

The only thing that makes any logical sense with this plan. Is if he was trying to help them see that they can protect Equestria without the Princesses help.....which is clearly not the case and having Twilight do the same thing she'd been doing since Nightmare Moon. Doesn't make sense either.

All the girls, excluding Fluttershy, and Garble winced slightly as they heard Discord's name. If the truth be told, they all did harbor some anger toward Discord as they held him partially responsible for what had happened.

Some? How about pure hatred.

"I don't even know why were even bringing him up in the first place," Applejack added.


"Because he was trying to help you. We miss Spike just as much as you all do, but clinging to the past won't do any of us any good," Celestia said curtly.

"Oh, and how did he "help" us as you put it?" Rainbow Dash asked, the bitterness in her tone becoming a bit more evident.

"Remember how he realized his mistakes and how he promised to make it up to everyone?" Luna asked.

That doesn't answer her question at all. RD asked how Discord was trying to help them by creating the Legion of doom. So what's your "LOGICAL" answee to that Luna. I'm all ears.

"Listen, please don't be angry at Discord for this. He never intended this to happen.”

He never intended for anyone to die. I say he still intended for the 3 villains to cause trouble, as part of his plans. I wonder what Spike would say about that one.

It was painful to remember his voice and seeing him dying on the ground right in front of them, but at the same time they realized that unlike them, Spike held no ill will toward Discord and knew that the ancient creature had good intentions. He had used one of his last breaths to beg them to drop any feelings of hate or anger harbored toward the Draconequus.

Fluttershy stood defiant against the unicorn mare. Defending her friend. "Your right! Discord has played many tricks in the past, but this was not one of them." She argued back. "Discord plan may have been bad, but he had good intentions."

"GOOD INTENTIONS!" Raven bellowed. "Have you ever heard the old saying that the path to Tatarus is paved in good intentions. A common meaning of the phrase is that wrongdoings or evil actions are often undertaken with good intentions; or that good intentions, when acted upon, may have unintended consequences and that's exactly what his so called "good intentions" led to, you BUCKING IDIOT!"

Strip from "Wait This Isn't Over Yet!!!" By me:twilightsmile:

"Huh," Said Applejack. "When you put it like that, I guess he did really try to help us, he just didn't plan for the villians to betray him so suddenly."

YES HE DID:flutterrage: It was all part of his plan. If you fools just think about it for a bit the answer is clear as day.

Raven: It's crap like this is why you're writing my story.

Me: I know! That's why I'm counting on you to open up there eyes, so they can finally see the truth. I'm counting on you Ms. Inkwell.

Raven adjusted her glasses. "Don't worry I got everything covered and with the mountain of evidence I have at my disposal. There's no way I can fail." Raven smirk.

The cream colored Pegasus looked very serious, "Listen, Discord. I am your best friend and as your best friend, I know you very well. I know that you're sometimes a troublemaker and mischievous person, but you have a caring heart deep inside you. You tried to do something to help us and it unexpectedly went south. You couldn't have thought that Chrysalis, Tirek, and Cozy Glow would've stabbed you in the back like that.

"Oh Fluttershy! Still a gullible fool even in this universe." Raven adjust her glasses. "Just you wait. In time I will be the one to break the status quoe of people forgiving that 'monster' Once I they see the evidence I have against him, EVERYONE will be screaming for him to be punished as he should be." Raven smirk deviously. "I could only wonder Miss Shy? If you would still consider him a friend once the truth is revealed." Raven chuckled. "Knowing you, you'd probably would but it doesn't matter. I still look forward to breaking you in our debate ms. Shy and you will regret ever challenging me."

The story here

I decided to combine the two parts of Discord's Guilt and rename it. Sorry, Mpony1 and NightShround96, for not having Discord punished in this version. Please forgive me.

Don't worry:twilightsmile: Raven Inkwell gotcha coverd:pinkiecrazy:

If everyone was being honest with themselves, they all felt sorry for what she had to go through and what led up to her becoming evil. At the same time though, they were glad that those other two fiends were off the streets for good. Today was a good day, justice had been served for all of Equestria, more importantly Spike, and there world be no more attacks threatening all of Equestria anymore.

BULLSH*T:flutterrage: Justice served my flank.

"That was before you became a deranged pshycopath hellbent on trying to kill us all," Starlight snapped back. "Had I known that you were going to go and pull a stunt like this, I would've just put you out of your misery right then and there."

Which only happened because "DISCORD" gave her the chance in the first place.

"What?" she asked, pretending as if she didn't know why they were all mad at her to begin with. "Why are you all angry?"

Yeah why are you all angry at her for and not show that same amount of anger towards Discord. You know the master mind behind this mess.

Those three wasn't a threat until he made them one.

"Very well then, we shall proceed," Luna said. She took out a scroll and read what the decided sentence was for both creatures. "For the punishment 1st degree murder, the decided sentence is execution for both of you

And Discord plan got 3 people killed for no good reason.

Raven: You see this is what I'm talking about! That monster need to be stop......Why can't anyone see that the true villain isn't those three but "Discord" Spike's death is all his fault. Chrysalis and Tirek deaths are all his fault. If he'd just left things alone, they would all still be alive, but no he comes up with this stupid plan; which so far no one had guess Discord's real plan yet, and screwd so many people.

I mean come on "you idiots" had it not occur to any of you about the one major flaw if everything went according to plan? Think about it. What was Discord endgame? If his plan was to pretend to be Grogar and attack Canterlot with those three, fight Twilight, and lose......WHAT HAPPENS AFTER THAT? WHAT HAPPENS TO GROGAR? WHAT HAPPENS TO THE REST OF THE LEGION OF DOOM? Do you see the problem here. It would be stupid for Discord to put himself on the frontlines because if he gets hit by the Rainbow laser, his Grogar form will shatter and his true form would be revealed. So tell me how the HELL is he gonna explain his way out of that to his friends huh?

Caused the way I see it. That would look like he betrayed Equestria again just like he did with Tirek. Only the roles are reverse.

Me: Calm yourself Raven we're no where near that part of the story yet.

Raven: Then when will we?

Me: Patience my friend. Just know that your time to shine will come.

Raven: And when it does. Justice will truly be served.

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Raven and Mpony1, here's something I want you to consider. If you were at the battle, you saw Spike die, and you hear his last words asking you to forgive Discord, would you honor his last request and do what he asked, or would you go against that and punish Discord anyway? Something you should both reread is what Smolder said in Chapter 6. Why was she quick to forgive Discord? I'll leave you both to consider that.

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"If the truth be told, I've already forgiven him for what he's done," Smolder said.
Garble was completely shocked.

"What? Why?" he asked.

"Because, Gar-Gar," Smolder explained. "I need to move on from this event just as much as everyone else. If I am unable to forgive Discord, I feel like I cannot move on. No matter how much I hope or try, I know nothing can bring our Spike back. I know he does hold some blame for what happened, but you have to understand that we cannot move on if we dwell on what Discord did instead of forgiving him, we cannot move on and, in the process, we'll all become more and more bitter to not just Discord, but everyone we know."

Raven: You wanted me to consider? Well here it is. She doesn't know the the whole truth to Discords plan. If she did, she probably wouldn't be as forgiving.

Hell they didn't even forgive Tirek; who was remorseful for Spikes death. He was clearly used as a pawn for Discord's plan, and you guys killed him anyway. Not only that but you guys kept putting all the blame on those three. When you know none of this is entirely there fault.

So here's something for "YOU" to consider. If they were willing (including Spike) to forgive Discord; The mastermind behind this mess then they should also forgive The Legion of Doom. Remember they weren't a threat until Discord made them one. He was the one who gave them the chance to try and take over in the first place. His actions led to the deaths of three people and he gets to walk away.

I love how hard you're trying to defend that monster. Just like a certain yellow pegasus, I know. And like her you choose to ignore all the evidence before you.

What was Discord endgame? If his plan was to pretend to be Grogar and attack Canterlot with those three, fight Twilight, and lose......WHAT HAPPENS AFTER THAT? WHAT HAPPENS TO GROGAR? WHAT HAPPENS TO THE REST OF THE LEGION OF DOOM?

You didn't even try to come up with a logical answer to these questions.

Do you see the problem here. It would be stupid for Discord to put himself on the frontlines because if he gets hit by the Rainbow laser, his Grogar form will shatter and his true form would be revealed. So tell me how the HELL is he gonna explain his way out of that to his friends huh?

But when I did. No doubt you were stump and started to realize that Discord doesn't deserve forgiveness.

And here's one more thing for you to consider. Do you honestly believe that Discord; as smart and cunning that he is. Didn't know that the bell was stolen?

Because if he did know and let it happened. It will prove that he planed for the bell to be stolen the whole time and the day will come when I expose his plans with pure facts, truths, and logic.

And you all will see the truth.

1jckuhn huh? I will be sure to remember you. Raven smiles.

Me: Sorry about that:twilightblush: She can get a little out of control sometimes.

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Here's a little something you should consider Raven. Did Discord order them to cause as much hell as they did. No. You know why? Because he was setting them up to fail and thought they were under control because of Sombra's breakaway and death. The only reason that they betrayed Grogar/Discord at the last second was from something they read in a book they stole about the bell being able to drain magic for other creatures. If it weren't for that, Discord's plan would've succeeded, the Legion would've been taken down, and Equestria would be at peace.

Hell they didn't even forgive Tirek; who was remorseful for Spikes death. He was clearly used as a pawn for Discord's plan, and you guys killed him anyway. Not only that but you guys kept putting all the blame on those three. When you know none of this is entirely their fault.

So here's something for "YOU" to consider. If they were willing (including Spike) to forgive Discord; The mastermind behind this mess then they should also forgive The Legion of Doom. Remember they weren't a threat until Discord made them one. He was the one who gave them the chance to try and take over in the first place. His actions led to the deaths of three people and he gets to walk away.

While that may be true, you should note that Chrysalis had an opportunity to reform at the end of season 6. She didn't take it. I also heard from the princesses about a huge, new, and, quite frankly, disgusting revelation on how Tirek met Cozy which I think will sour your opinion on him greatly. Speaking of Cozy, Spike and I have both noticed something is off with her. I can't explain it, but you had to look her right in the eye to understand what I'm talking about. She isn't like those other two. It seems she has a soul, but it appears to be broken, like it suffered some kind of tramatic event. So, we'll try our luck with her.

What was Discord endgame? If his plan was to pretend to be Grogar and attack Canterlot with those three, fight Twilight, and lose......WHAT HAPPENS AFTER THAT? WHAT HAPPENS TO GROGAR? WHAT HAPPENS TO THE REST OF THE LEGION OF DOOM?

If I had a hunch, I would believe that Grogar make an "escape", elude capture, and eventually his name would slowly fade from everyone's memory. Spike and I would've, however, tried our hardest to convince Twilight to give Cozy a second chance.

Do you see the problem here? It would be stupid for Discord to put himself on the frontlines because if he gets hit by the Rainbow laser, his Grogar form will shatter and his true form would be revealed. So tell me how the HELL is he gonna explain his way out of that to his friends huh?

You have to remember who we're talking about here. This dude can literally bend reality. Using that to his advantage, he could very well escape the scene and leave the Legion to be punished, if his plan had gone accordingly, and the other three hadn't stolen that book. Using his chaos powers, Discord would escape the pursuing guards and then catch up to Twilight and the others, before they notice he was gone. His secret would remain safe and Twilight would've gotten that said confidence boost.

Also, I couldn't help but notice I had to replace a period with a question mark in that first sentence.

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Also, Smolder did know about Discord's whole plan. She chose to forgive him not just because she wanted to honor Prince Spike's last request, but also because she knew that it would benifit her in the long run as well. Take a lesson from her, Raven.

Smolder: Yeah, come on, Raven. If there's one thing I learned from being here, it's that rage and hatred will get you nowhere in life. Before you say, "Oh, what about what happened at the dungeon?", Chrysalis was blatantly unremorseful for what she did. She had an opportunity to show she had remorse, like Discord did when we paid him a visit in Celestia and Luna's castle. Instead, she literally talked about him as if he was radioactive garbage, and Starlight, Thorax, Ember, and I did not appreciate that whatsover. Plus, Fluttershy helped me see that she wasn't worth it because she never took the spirit of our Spike away from us. There is a special place in my heart where his spirit will never fade. Discord, on the other hand, didn't do that. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that he looked like I did during those five days when I was wallowing in my own depression. I've already gone through with that, it sucks and I certainly don't want to see someone else experience what I already have.

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Smolder: Yeah, come on, Raven. If there's one thing I learned from being here, it's that rage and hatred will get you nowhere in life. Before you say, "Oh, what about what happened at the dungeon?", Chrysalis was blatantly unremorseful for what she did. She had an opportunity to show she had remorse, like Discord did when we paid him a visit in Celestia and Luna's castle. Instead, she literally talked about him as if he was radioactive garbage, and Starlight, Thorax, Ember, and I did not appreciate that whatsover. Plus, Fluttershy helped me see that she wasn't worth it because she never took the spirit of our Spike away from us. There is a special place in my heart where his spirit will never fade. Discord, on the other hand, didn't do that. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that he looked like I did during those five days when I was wallowing in my own depression. I've already gone through with that, it sucks and I certainly don't want to see someone else experience what I already have.

Raven: Wow you're a hypocrite. You talk about how rage and hatred gets you nowhere. Yet you guys still had Chrysalis executed. So much for Fluttershy little speech about her not being worth it. If you guys were gonna kill her in the end anyway, Celestia should just let you guys beat the shit out of her.

The best thing you guys should of done is lock her up in tartarus or turn her stone, but instead you chosed to kill her. The good old classic eye for an eye, life for a life.

And let's not forget Tirek. Didn't he felt remorseful for Spikes death. So what's your excuse for killing him.

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Smolder: We were considering redemption for Tirek, but we found something out about how he met Cozy Glow that was truly over the line. It, personally, made me sick to my stomach finding out what he did. In fact, because of that little revelation, Cozy Glow was spared from all charges. We'll get into that, however, later. We felt that if he were to, somehow, escape again, he'd do what he did to Cozy to someone else. If that was how he acts toward children, I certainly don't even wanna think what he did to grown ponies with what Cozy had been going through. It still makes me feel extremely sorry for what this poor filly had to be subjected to all because Tirek wanted to bring us to our knees. In a way though, we're to blame for that because we never really stopped and thought about why Cozy was the way that she was. Also, would you want someone like Chrysalis walking the streets who could literally kill someone in the blink of an eye and then watch as she basks in the death afterward? We were originally going to drop her down in Tartarus for good, but seeing her act the way she did during that little visit changed everything. She convinced us all that she didn't deserve to live another day on this Earth because of her shameless and callous attitude. Plus, as mentioned before, she had a chance to be led down a better path. She chose the other path and look where she ended up.

Sweet. Spike is not happy for what Chrysalis had said.

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Raven: Sorry for the wait. I had tiny computer trouble the last time I wrote a long comment and I was to upset to rewrite it again. But now I'm calm enough to give it another go and what I was trying to say before.

You all still had a choice. You could of easily lock both chrysalis away in tartaus or turned them to stone, but no you decided to have them killed instead.

Smolder: Yeah, come on, Raven. If there's one thing I learned from being here, it's that rage and hatred will get you nowhere in life.

Plus, Fluttershy helped me see that she wasn't worth it because she never took the spirit of our Spike away from us.

Raven: Like I said before you guys are "HYPOCRITES" If that what you truly believed then you all should of been the bigger creatures and lock them away but instead you had them killed and called it justice. That wasn't justice, it was vengeances under the disguse of court of law.

Heck in my story. I'm not fighting to have Discord executed, only turned to stone again. I may hate that monster but I would never wish death upon him, even if his plan did get someone killed.

You guy's know you could of just ignore Chrysalis right. It not like she was a threat anymore and she was just trying to get under your skin in the one way she could. Ever heard the old saying "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words can never hurt me." Yet you guys let her get you mad and you lash out in anger, wanting her dead. Fluttershy gives a speech about how they weren't worth it and reminded you all what's really important and still you chose to have them executed. (Raven shakes her head disappointedly) Tsk, tsk. What a shame.

You can try and make up whatever excuse you want, use their crimes to justify your reasons, but like them you too had a choice and you sqaunderd it, in the end you still let your anger and hate get the better of you and took their lives. You guys even hugged it out, happy that they were going to be killed.

I guess Discord really dodge a bullet there, despite pretty much being an accessory to 'involuntary manslaughter'. Oh well! I hope you all enjoy having blood on your hooves and hands.

I hope it was worth it.

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You guy's know you could of just ignore Chrysalis right. It not like she was a threat anymore and she was just trying to get under your skin in the one way she could. Ever heard the old saying "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words can never hurt me." Yet you guys let her get you mad and you lash out in anger, wanting her dead. Fluttershy gives a speech about how they weren't worth it and reminded you all what's really important and still you chose to have them executed. (Raven shakes her head disappointedly) Tsk, tsk. What a shame.

Smolder: When I think about it more, yes, you're right, I should've ignored her, but, at that moment, I was starting to relive memories of that awful day since I woke up and it was already making me both livid and crestfallen. I could tell Starlight, Ember, and Thorax were feeling the same way. Chrysalis just kept going at it and, yes, we should've ignored her. If the truth be told, I'm a bit embarrased about how I acted. However, Raven, I want you to think about this: Imagine you believe you finally found the perfect one. That was the case for Spike and me. Then, one day, You lose them because they tried to save you from a threat. When you see the main perpetrator again and they blatantly treat your loved one like garbage, as well as you reliving memories of that day already when you're face to face with them, I wouldn't blame you for wanting to, at first, fight them either. Then, there's Tirek. Yes, the others and I were considering reformation for him as well as a sentence of about 25 years. However, after hearing what he did to poor Cozy made us see that he was no better than Chrysalis, even if he was slightly remorseful for Spike's death. He literally manipulated the mind of a child, who was the same age as Spike, just so he could get his sick kicks out on seeing us get defeated. Plus, just in case someone else who had it out for Equestria, we also didn't want to risk that person to break them out of Tartarus so they could put a team together that consisting of those monsters, which would possibly result in more creatures injured or killed.

I guess Discord really dodge a bullet there, despite pretty much being an accessory to 'involuntary manslaughter'. Oh well! I hope you all enjoy having blood on your hooves and hands.

Smolder: At least for DIscord, he was remorseful for what he did. If you read the most recent chapter, you'd know that Discord did all of this just to reform Cozy Glow. He just didn't think it through.

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Raven, I want you to think about this: Imagine you believe you finally found the perfect one. That was the case for Spike and me. Then, one day, You lose them because they tried to save you from a threat. When you see the main perpetrator again and they blatantly treat your loved one like garbage, as well as you reliving memories of that day already when you're face to face with them, I wouldn't blame you for wanting to, at first, fight them either.

Raven : WHAT THE ACTUAL BUCK!!!!!! What are you, some kind of magic mind reading Dragon.

Me: Raven calm down!

Raven : What the hell do you know about me!?

Me: She knows nothing Raven. She was just making a point to her argument.

Raven: But she-

Me: Calm yourself Raven it was just a fluke, nothing more. Why don't you just go comment on the last chapter we read. I know you have somethings you want to say about. Won't that make you feel better.

Raven nods

Me: Good now go do your thing and forget about this.

Raven leaves.

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Raven : WHAT THE ACTUAL BUCK!!!!!! What are you, some kind of magic mind reading Dragon.

Smolder: Uh, no. I'm not a magic, mind-reading Dragon. The memories I'm referring to are coming down to join the Element Bearers with Starlight, Gabby, and the Crusaders, thinking we were going to have a happy reunion with our Spike. Only to find out he was killed in very painful, horrible way, seeing him on Celestia and Luna's portal 17 hours later, croaking out his last words to the Element Bearers just before everyone arrived, and seeing him in that casket on the day of his funeral. All of them still make me cry thinking about it.

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To reply to the author(since I haven't started reading the fic yet):
I am guessing Chrysalis and Tirek still gets executed?

Even if Discord isn't being punished, killing Chrysalis and Tirek is actually hypocrisy there for the ponies to do.
Discord's plan caused the trio to end up even worse, if he kept his claws off of them then they wouldn't have been worse.
Executing the two is making the damage from Discord's plan even worse. His plan lead them to their deaths.
Its worse for Chrysalis since she was freaking broken and instead of her getting help and maybe have someone shown her the way, Discord plucked her up and had her end up being worse instead.
Its so wrong to have her get executed, especially if Discord is off the hook like that.
As for Tirek, executing is actually unnecessary. Just put him back in Tartarus, he only got out due to Discord and he had done literally all of this stuff before(causing destruction, attacking royalty, presumable got some ponies killed during his attack).

I managed to start reading this story after reading the "Cuddles for Spike" one.
Wonder what differences will be here actually?

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Well, read, find out, and, most importantly, enjoy, buddy. Fair warning though, Discord doesn't get punished. Please forgive me. :twilightblush:

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Though what about what happens to Chrysalis right there?
If Discord doesn't get punished, then they definitely have to dial back on the sentence against her and Tirek(especially since its DISCORD'S fault they ended up even worse and in this situation).
Its pretty unjust to execute them given the circumstances there. Especially if the very being who tried to use the trio and caused the to end up even worse is getting off scott-free.
His plan would be leading these 2 to their deaths, having them be executed shows even more damage and carrying out the twisted thing his plan was doing(disposing of his pawns).
Discord sitting by and letting two villains die due to HIS plan made them end up in a situation were they ended up worse, is going to screw things up.

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I 100% agree with your statement. I've been arguing about the same exact thing, with no success at all.

"Well, they'll be sentenced in two days, Cozy. It's likely they'll both get life in Tartarus," Starlight replied simply. She didn't want to go too deep into conversation about the two other villains who had done deeds that were unforgivable.

Raven: and yet Discord gets off scott free and is forgiven for his stupid plan, Straight up. He gets 3 people killed for a plan that made absolutely no sense, at all and doesn't face any consequences for his actions. And no the nightmares doesn't count.

He also praised both Fluttershy and me directly for forgiving Discord sooner than everyone else and helping everyone else to go down the right path.

Raven: Of course Fluttershy did! That idiot is too bias, infact all of you are. I bet Pinkie could get away scott free for killing multiple creatures and turning them into cupcakes. Because she's your friend and you will forgive her no matter what.

That little fact also helped me, as well as Fluttershy, forgive Discord because we knew that he didn't expect the Legion to betray him so suddenly because of something they read in a book.

Raven: BULLSH*T, BULLSH*T, BULLSH*T that's not what happened at all. Those 3 decided to betray "Grogar" after successfully retrieving the bell, but they needed to learn how to use it, that's what the book was for.

And as for Discord not knowing about the betrayal is absolute "BULLSH*T!" I don't get why some people actually believe he didn't know about it. It's absolutely impossible for someone like him and makes no sense since he no doubt have to keep an eye on those 3, so they won't run out and cause trouble. Yeah I know he made sure they wouldn't after Sombra's defeat but that alone should tell how devious he is.

He used Sombra defeat as a way to keep the other 3 in line. Plus why didn't he bring back Sombra? Grogar made a deal with him saying if the evil king loses, Sombra must submit to him. Sombra did lose but Grogar didn't even attempt to bring him back. Now isn't that strange.

I could go into more detail about this but you'll just have to wait for the chapter in my story to release when it does. Expect chp.2 real soon.

Just know this, how can someone who can literally reshape reality at will, not know about the evil 3 betrayal? Infact lets turn that question around shall we. Remember no one knew Grogar was just Discord in disguise. So the real question is, why didn't Grogar just simply watch them get the bell? He does have the means to do so, and here's some proof to support my claim.

(Raven use her magic to make a screen appear)

So I find it kinda weird that he didn't use that crystal ball of his to watch them. After all he is dealing with 3 of the most untrustworthy creatures in the world. He would of saw them plan there betrayal no problem and nothing was stopping him from doing so and make sure they won't pull a fast one on him.

In other words things should of gone as Discord plan it. Like I said no one knew he was Grogar and he had that crystal ball. Which leads to another "BIG" question.

Since those 3 knew about the crystal ball existence and saw that it can show both past and current events. Why did they believe they could betray Grogar knowing that he could of been watching them the whole time? He did send them to the mountain alone. When he could of gone with them.

They knew about the crystal ball and what it can do; You saw it yourself. So by that logic they should of realize that and just delivered the bell to him. Thus meaning Discord's "plan" would of went off without a hitch because he clearly set safeguards beforehand to make sure it does. So there's no way the betrayal could happen and yet it did. So I say again.

Why did those 3 believed for a second that they could betray Grogar, when the odds of that working was greatly stack against them?

And another thing. He didn't even question them or call them out on their obvious lie. He just took them for their word just like that. The words of 3 villains who are known for lying and betrayal and Grogar know this, heck he even said at one point that he doesn't trust Cozy glow to her face.

Its almost like (mock gasp) Discord wanted them to betray him and if he wanted them to betray him then that means (MOCK GASP) HE DID KNEW ABOUT THE BETRAYAL THE WHOLE TIME AND LET IT HAPPEN. BECAUSE THOSE 3 RUNNING AMOK WAS HIS REAL PLAN ALL ALONG!

See what happens when you apply logic, facts, truths, and witnesses to support your claim, it gives you solid ground to stand on and Soon Fluttershy will see that too.

So with all that been said; do you still believe that Discord didn't know about the betrayal and if you do I hope have some strong logical proof to support your claim, cause I sure as Tartarus have mines.

(Raven smirks evily)

Plus, dwelling on the past wouldn't do me, or anyone else, any good. In his last moments, Spike also begged the Elements to forgive Discord, because he, as well, knew Discord's intentions were good as well.

Raven: How many times do I have to say it before you finally understand.

Have you ever heard the old saying that the path to Tatarus is paved in good intentions. A common meaning of the phrase is that wrongdoings or evil actions are often undertaken with good intentions; or that good intentions, when acted upon, may have unintended consequences and that's exactly what his so called "good intentions" led to, you BUCKING IDIOT!"

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Raven: So Miss Smolder! What do you think about my hypothesis on Discord knowing about the betrayal. Try as you might but I know you don't have a strong counter argument to say otherwise and I barely scratch the surface with my argument.

I bet you seeing the obvious truth now are you. Discord let the betrayal happen because he wanted it to happen. He was pulling off the same stunt he did with Sombra but on a bigger scale.

He faked being hurt by him so that mane 6 would defeat him on their own and he gave the evil 3 the bell, knowing that it can take away his magic. He wanted them to take it so that way the mane 6 would have to defeat them on their own.

You see the pattern here. In both scenarios Discord purposely removed himself from the field. Leaving the mane 6 to take care of things themselves.

There's still a lot of things to mention like Discord's true plan, but I won't spoil that here.

Just know that there was a purpose to all this, something important that he wanted Twilight to know and his whole plan revolve around her learning this one thing. But in the end it failed and poor Spike payed the price for it with his life.

It made sense for him to feel the way he did earlier. His stupid plan got someone killed and he knew he deserved to be punished for it. But when you all (including Spike) forgave him, he was no doubt surprised.

I even bet he wanted to tell you guys the whole truth about his true plan and that the LOD betrayal was apart of it. But he was a coward, he couldn't bring himself to tell you all the truth. Majority of you were already angry at him for what he did, so if he told you all the truth, I'm willing to bet that beating you guys wanted to give Chrysalis you will be given Discord instead before taking away his powers and executing him as well.

So he said nothing, let you all focus your anger on Tirek and Chrysalis (after all they were just disposable pawns anyway) and did or said nothing when they were sentence to be executed thus adding two more creatures blood to his hands.

All he could do was follow your advice and move on and try not to let the past haunt him.

Maybe some day he will try and help Twilight learn what he was trying teach her before everything went terribly wrong. Only this time he'll just straight up tell her and not pull another one of his tricky teaching lessons again.

Which he should of just done in the first place. (Raven shrugs) ehh! But that's Discord for you that's just how he is.

So Miss Smolder can you still say you forgive Discord for stupidly causing your lover death with his stupid plan that had no reason to exist.

The only good thing that came out of this was Cozy refomation and even that didn't need Spike to die for that happen. If only his plan was about trying to reform the 3 of them instead of using them as disposable pawns. Then Spike would still be alive and Cozy would of become a better pony, no deaths needed.

Ohh! I just realized. You also know it was possible that Spike along with the mane 6 could of died together. If that did happened would Princess Celestia be keen on forgiving Discord, even if Spike asked her to.

With someone who was like a daughter to her laying at her hooves I doubt it. Not only that but I bet Spike wouldn't forgive him either for getting 6 of loves killed.

So yeah Discord deserves to be punished.

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If Discord doesn't get punished, I would have been (sort of) fine with it IF Chrysalis was not being executed.
But if she is still killed off, its just going to hurt alot that my feedback has been ignored completely.

Just put her and Tirek in Tartarus. Why is it so wrong to do that instead of executing them?
I know she and Tirek needs to be punished but not THIS much due to the circumstances.

I don't want to mean any offense to the author there..

The funeral was certainly more emotional than the original due to how the girls were much closer to Spike there.


Though I really feel like Luna and Celestia should be affected by this alot more.
They failed so many times and forced to rely on others to save the day. Not only they FAILED on their last days as rulers but the fact this time, someone had to make the ultimate sacrifice to save the day this time.
Celestia and (especially) Luna's confidence(or whats left of it) should be demolished completely here. They failed so much and now this time someone had to play the ultimate price for this failure this time.

Discord may not be punished, but he has EARN that forgiveness.
Freeing the others from the trio is not enough to do that since its stopping the mess from getting even worse, not fixing it.
Its a START but its not enough to fully earn forgiveness.
A big step towards it would be he has to stop the damage of his plan from happening any further.
He has to step up and stop Chrysalis's and Tirek's execution.
It doesn't matter if they shown no remorse or did it "willingly" to cause havoc, ITS STILL DISCORD'S FAULT. He plucked them and tried to use them as pawns. He caused them to end up even worse.
Chrysalis could have been saved. She was broken and her mind is all damaged but instead someone getting her help and find out why she is too stubborn to reform, Discord robbed her of that chance by plucking her up and attempted to use her as a pawn. She went off the deep-end further because of him, by dumping her with other villains where her negative behavior is encouraged/amplified and her mental state is worse.
She may be remorseless but so was Dicord, etc until they got help or confrontation.
Discord sitting back and allowing two beings to die due to his plan got them into this and made them worse, is just so wrong and it negates him being remorseful since he's allowing even more damage from his plan to happen. He led two other beings to their deaths since he didn't keep his claws off of them in the first place.
If Discord isn't punished, then dial back on the sentence on Chrysalis and Tirek since its cruel and unjust to have them be executed.
Discord needs to step in and stop the execution since its ultimately his fault Chrysalis and Tirek ended up even worse.

So Chrysalis and Tirek are being sent to Tartarus instead of execution? That's good, at least Discord's plan didn't end up dragging other beings to their deaths here.
So really glad that they(especially Chrysalis) weren't executed.

While Chrysalis was really cruel here, like I mentioned in the other story she wasn't THIS cruel prior to Discord's plan happening.
Discord's plan clearly caused her to end up being worse. Especially since she was mentally broken and instead of someone helping her, Discord plucked her up and had her end up being worse.
Its like a computer who's data has been messed up badly but instead of someone attempting to fix the code, they smack it with a wrench and have it be exposed to more malicious data/maleware/etc.
At least they weren't executed. Maybe Chrysalis might end up showing her regret and such(and how her mental state really is) while staying in Tartarus. There's a chance at least.

"Very well then, we shall proceed," Luna said. She took out a scroll and read what the decided sentence was for both creatures. "For the punishment 1st degree murder, the decided sentence is life in tartarus for both of you. Do you have anything you'd like to say for yourselves?"

Raven: So you changed their sentence from execution to Life in Tartarus. It seems you realize that having them killed was clearly not the answer and is only made things worse on Discods part; even if he'd been forgiven.

But it still doesn't change the fact that they were still "disposable pawns" in his game. Being used for his plan and then thown away like trash and he gets straight up forgiven for that.

No matter how you slice it, Discord deserves to be punished.

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Sorry, Raven. Smolder's out sick with a splitting headache. I'm filling in for her.

Raven: and yet Discord gets off scott free and is forgiven for his stupid plan, Straight up. He gets 3 people killed for a plan that made absolutely no sense, at all and doesn't face any consequences for his actions. And no the nightmares doesn't count.

Discord was forgiven at the last request of Prince Spike. Like Smolder and Fluttershy, he knew Discord didn't want this to turn out this way and he tried to make the ones he loved see that before he passed away. Plus, he owned up for what he did and apologized to Cozy to her face for what he put her through.

Raven: Of course Fluttershy did! That idiot is too bias, in fact all of you are. I bet Pinkie could get away scott free for killing multiple creatures and turning them into cupcakes. Because she's your friend and you will forgive her no matter what.

How are we biased? As said before, we've forgiven Discord because of Prince Spike's last request and because we knew it would help us cope better with Spike's death. Ask yourself this question, Raven. Did Discord tell them to caus this much hell and destruction? Was he in control when they killed Spike?

Raven: BULLSH*T, BULLSH*T, BULLSH*T that's not what happened at all. Those 3 decided to betray "Grogar" after successfully retrieving the bell, but they needed to learn how to use it, that's what the book was for.

I suppose Discord was aware of this, right? That's why he planned on them betraying him and killing one of his best friends? Oh, wait a minute. No, he wasn't. He though he had those three in check, but the betrayal happened at the last possible second at the worst time.

And as for Discord not knowing about the betrayal is absolute "BULLSH*T!" I don't get why some people actually believe he didn't know about it. It's absolutely impossible for someone like him and makes no sense since he no doubt have to keep an eye on those 3, so they won't run out and cause trouble. Yeah I know he made sure they wouldn't after Sombra's defeat but that alone should tell how devious he is.

Well, he can't watch them 24/7. Also, how was he supposed to know they were going to betray him? He can bend reality, he's not psychic.

He used Sombra defeat as a way to keep the other 3 in line. Plus why didn't he bring back Sombra? Grogar made a deal with him saying if the evil king loses, Sombra must submit to him. Sombra did lose but Grogar didn't even attempt to bring him back. Now isn't that strange.

He most likely did that because he knew what Sombra was capable of and he didn't want him to help them take Equestria over. If he did do that, it would've resulted in more deaths and carnage. He already risked it with him once. He knew it was best not to try again with him.

So I find it kinda weird that he didn't use that crystal ball of his to watch them. After all he is dealing with 3 of the most untrustworthy creatures in the world. He would of saw them plan there betrayal no problem and nothing was stopping him from doing so and make sure they won't pull a fast one on him.

While that is a somewhat valid point, you have to remember, again, he couldn't keep an eye on them 24/7.

In other words things should of gone as Discord plan it. Like I said no one knew he was Grogar and he had that crystal ball. Which leads to another "BIG" question.

Since those 3 knew about the crystal ball existence and saw that it can show both past and current events. Why did they believe they could betray Grogar knowing that he could of been watching them the whole time? He did send them to the mountain alone. When he could of gone with them.

They knew about the crystal ball and what it can do; You saw it yourself. So by that logic they should of realize that and just delivered the bell to him. Thus meaning Discord's "plan" would of went off without a hitch because he clearly set safeguards beforehand to make sure it does. So there's no way the betrayal could happen and yet it did. So I say again.

Why did those 3 believed for a second that they could betray Grogar, when the odds of that working was greatly stack against them?

Maybe, Discord wasn't keeping an eye on them. It's almost like he had a life outside of being the Legion of Doom's leader. Wouldn't you agree?

And another thing. He didn't even question them or call them out on their obvious lie. He just took them for their word just like that. The words of 3 villains who are known for lying and betrayal and Grogar know this, heck he even said at one point that he doesn't trust Cozy glow to her face.

That is valid, but, at the same time, you should understand Discord didn't know what those three were capable of and while I do hold him at fault for that, I know that he did, at least, try to do something good for everyone. Again, you have to remember that Discord did this soully to reform Cozy Glow and give Twilight a final boost of confidence to rule Equestria over once Celestia and Luna officially retired.

Its almost like (mock gasp) Discord wanted them to betray him and if he wanted them to betray him then that means (MOCK GASP) HE DID KNEW ABOUT THE BETRAYAL THE WHOLE TIME AND LET IT HAPPEN. BECAUSE THOSE 3 RUNNING AMOK WAS HIS REAL PLAN ALL ALONG!

Uh, no. No, he didn't. He couldn't watch them all the time, but he could've kept a little better watch on them.

See what happens when you apply logic, facts, truths, and witnesses to support your claim, it gives you solid ground to stand on and Soon Fluttershy will see that too.

I do wish you good luck on that. That Pegasus is loyal to Discord and for a good reason too.

Have you ever heard the old saying that the path to Tatarus is paved in good intentions. A common meaning of the phrase is that wrongdoings or evil actions are often undertaken with good intentions; or that good intentions, when acted upon, may have unintended consequences and that's exactly what his so called "good intentions" led to, you BUCKING IDIOT!"

Yes, it may have led to that, but remember this was something he thought he had under control and something at the last second derailed it completely. If you did something like that for someone to help them and it got wrecked at the last second, wouldn't you want to know that you tried?

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Hahaha. I said the exact same thing in a previous comment I made hours ago. So I agree. I also made a comment before that; going a bit into detail about Discords real plan and how he did "KNEW" about the betrayal and let it happen.

Even if Tirek and Chrysalis weren't executed but were just sent to Tartarus. It doesn't change the fact that he used them and let them get punish while he "The mastermind" walks away free.

So its not right for them to be punish while the one who is really responsible gets away.

If only they knew the truth about Discord plan and what he was actually trying to accomplish by setting those 4 freein the first place.

I don't think they would be so forgiving then. After all they only forgave him because they thought he didn't know about the betrayal, but if he did know about it (and there's a mountain of evidence supporting that claim. Just read this comment of mine
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to see for yourself) he would be fully blamed for everything and it would take a miracle to save him.

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Raven: HAHAHAHA! I knew it! You couldn't come up with anything concrete to support your claim. You just keep repeating the same thing over and over and ignoring logic completely. (oh he can't watch them 24/7) but he can watch them for a few hours as they tried and failed to get the bell and check on them again when they finally succeeded. Doing something like that isn't hard at all for him or anyone to do and you know it.

It didn't take those 3 24 hours to get the bell and you didn't come up with a valid reason why Discord didn't watch them.

The guy been trap in stone for a thousand years watching the same scenery 24/7 straight. I can't see why he can't do it again and he could easily keep himself entertain or just check in on them from time to time.

Discord was forgiven at the last request of Prince Spike. Like Smolder and Fluttershy, he knew Discord didn't want this to turn out this way and he tried to make the ones he loved see that before he passed away. Plus, he owned up for what he did and apologized to Cozy to her face for what he put her through.

I do agree that Discord didn't want things to turn out this way but that's referring to someone getting killed in the process.

Spike didn't know the truth behind Discord plan and what he was really trying to accomplish. If he did I doubt he would be so forgiving to have died for such a stupid plan, when he could of just told Twilight instead.

He may of apologize to Cozy but he didn't fully apologize to everyone else and to do that he had to tell the truth, the whole truth and he was too much of a coward to do that.

I suppose Discord was aware of this, right? That's why he planned on them betraying him and killing one of his best friends? Oh, wait a minute. No, he wasn't. He though he had those three in check, but the betrayal happened at the last possible second at the worst time.

Raven: Yes he did plan on them betraying him, it was all a part of his plan to get them to "work together" (which he was always telling them to do) so they would be an even greater and stronger threat. He just didn't expect them to try and kill the mane 6 (plus Spike) and why would he. None of the many villains the mane 6 face never tried to kill anyone (except Sunset Shimmer) but my point is those 3 never tried to (but Cozy plan would of killed everyone in the entire world, and Tirek involvement is the reason that happened and Sombra did kill the original ruler of the empire) look what i'm saying is that they didn't intend on killing anyone when they each came up.

Discord believed that things would end as they always do with the mane 6 saving the day like always. You also said that he's not phsyic and agree with that but don't think that's gonna help you in this. That only admitting what little thought Discord put in about the consequences of this plan. He believed Things will go exactly as he planed because Twilight always beat the bad guys all the time so theirs nothing to worry about....right?

In the canon universe the mane 6 was saved by shield made by every unicorn in Equestria and don't forget you said it yourself, Discord "is NOT phsyic" so he didn't know that every creature in the world would show up in time to help not only that we Unicorns barely made it time to put the shield up. If we were just one second late the mane 6 and Spike would be dead and we all know who was the reason for that happening in the first place; Discord.

And the betrayal happening at the worst possible time, makes no sense. Discord was no doubt watching them try and master the bell and when they did he went back to the hideout knowing exactly what was going to happen.

He most likely did that because he knew what Sombra was capable of and he didn't want him to help them take Equestria over. If he did do that, it would've resulted in more deaths and carnage. He already risked it with him once. He knew it was best not to try again with him.

Raven:Wow you actually thought to use logic with this one. Congrats! Now here's mine Logic. Sombra was never apart of the "big" plan to begin with and here's why. Unlike the evil 3, Sombra never had Willing creatures join his cause, he mind controls and force them to obey his will.Discord knew this and knew he wouldn't want to join the team because always did everything on his own with no one "willing" help.

Discord only brought him back for the sole purpose of showing the other 3 that if they try to run off and do things on their own, they would just lose. Sombra defeat was used as a means to keep the others from not trying the same thing, after all they are the most likely to work together and he needed them for his plans.

Maybe, Discord wasn't keeping an eye on them. It's almost like he had a life outside of being the Legion of Doom's leader. Wouldn't you agree?

Raven: Sorry, try again! I want a logical explanation not some poor bullsh*t excuse. That won't help support your claim at all. Discord always seemed to have time to go back to the lair and hang around those 3, but not watching them climb a mountain makes no sense and even if you say that he didn't still won't help you cause the crystal ball can show past events and we know Grogar is actually Discord. That means he went back to the lair after Sombra defeat and then showed it to the other 3, which he could of done to make sure they weren't lying to him.

Isn't using logic fun!

Uh, no. No, he didn't. He couldn't watch them all the time, but he could've kept a little better watch on them.

Oh ho ho! It seems someone starting to lose there composer and keep bringing up that piss poor of an excuse. Not once have I said he was watching them all the time only that he was watching them climb the mountain which he could of done any number of ways, it is Discord after all.

You know what's funny the author of my story got into the same exact argument with another reader. He too said the exact same thing you're saying about the 24/7 thing, but when the author applied pure logic in his latest comment the other guy never replied back even till this day.

One could imagine why.

Yes, it may have led to that, but remember this was something he thought he had under control and something at the last second derailed it completely. If you did something like that for someone to help them and it got wrecked at the last second, wouldn't you want to know that you tried?

That would make sense if his whole plan didn't involve them betraying him in the first place. It only derailed when Spike was killed and the lesson he wanted to teach Twilight failed horribly.

You see here's the difference between our universes. In yours Discord true plan failed, in mine it succeeded.

To bad you or anyone else haven't figure it out what his real plan was. It's not really that hard to figure out.

Sorry, Raven. Smolder's out sick with a splitting headache. I'm filling in for her.

Raven: Sick my ass. She obviously read my comments and realized how my words are and probably ran off to confront Discord and hear the real truth behind his plan. Heck even you realize it but you're in denial and won't face the truth. But you will, you all will and I'm the one whose going to expose it.

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What are you talking about? :rainbowhuh:

....... a lot of walls of text. You should reduce that because it will risk the eyes of the readers.

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Really?! You DON'T see the huge argument/debate going on about your story's decisions?!

I did know about his whole plan about how he wanted to give Twilight and the others a confidence boost so that they could be ready to rule over Equestria together, but that wasn't the only reason he did it.

Raven: And that is the lie Discord told and why his reason for this plan makes absolutely no sense.

Just ask yourself, what confidence was he trying to boost them in exactly? It can't be to help them rule, making them do the one thing that the mane 6 had been doing since Nightmare Moon (Defend and protect Equestria) haves no effect in ruling a country. Defending it is only part of the job, not the whole package.

Plus Twilight spent months learning how to be a ruler and gain Confidence on ruling Equestria through that and at the last Sun Celebration. She even showed everyone just how confident and ready to rule she was thanks to the time given to her to prepare.

The only thing that makes sense with Discord plan is if he was trying to help Twilight build confidence in defending Equestria with out the help of the of the royal sisters or his help but that makes even less sense, cause the mane 6 had been doing that for years and long since gained confidence in protecting Equestria without their help.

And the one responsible for Twilight's confidence boost in these two categories, was none other than Princess Celestia and Twilight's Confidence was build up before Discord could even initiate his plan and since Twilight had already gained confidence in being a great ruler. It makes Discord plan absolutely meaningless.

Except having Twilight gain a confidence boost was a lie to hide what he was really trying to help her with. So what was Discord really trying to help her with? what was the real purpose for his plan?

Can you figure it out.

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Oh, that's what you were talking about. Okay, I understand now.

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If you are so invested into this?

Then why DIDN'T you continue your particular story ( The one with Raven Inkwell and her very complicated, but compelling argument. Even though I disagree with some things you said, that I'm not 100% on your side of the argument. And it's not even about Discord. ) ??!!

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