Rumble receives a rare offer of eternal life from Princess Celestia. There's just one catch: he can never grow up. It's a tempting proposition, and though Celestia has never explained why she does it, only one foal in history has ever refused her gift.
As Rumble tries to make up his mind, he's plagued by the only question nopony can answer to his satisfaction:
Why is this happening to me?
Written for a specific Writeoff prompted by a drawing by GroaningGreyAgony. Out of respect for those involved, I will not link to the image or event. Nonetheless, I remain deeply grateful.
Chapters (6)
Well this was an interesting story, I would love to see hoe things go for Rumble after the 40 year mark. Keep up the good work
I'm confused on the wedding thing. Can you explain the whole thing to me? I love the story. But I don't get it.
Interesting read!! I hope Rumble made the right choice. That last chapter gave me an existential crisis I wasn't ready for, though. Either way, good job!!!
My favorite line in the whole story was this:
I literally died
9958190
I think that's the whole idea behind the Frozen Foal idea. It doesn't help Princess Celestia's real reasoning behind it is never said.
I think what Cheerilee meant was that if you become frozen, your "basic pony right" to freedom is lost. And that is not something you should lose.
About the death thing however. The summer when I was 12, I came to a sudden realization during the last day of my visit to my grandparents: they would die one day. And so would I. I remember very little from that time but my mother tells me that I cried nonstop for two weeks. And I mean cried, loudly. Only stopping temporarily when I somehow fell asleep. Overconfidence is a thing yes but so is paranoia.
So I am unsure about not being allowed to truly think about death. I think you can sneak up on you brain
.
Good story that makes me think even if I am the type that wants things very clearly explained to me so I can understand them.
But you will have to explain what connection the inability to comprehend your own death and what the "good" sacrifice is, because I do not understand?
This was interesting. I appreciate that it hit fast and hard with the moral dilemma's and implications, not sure it would have been as good a story if the writing was dragged out. I do wish we had some insight into the situation outside of Rumble's limited perspective, as there's some stuff going on here I would have liked to see explored from an adult perspective outside of target of inquiry, but I understand why you did things this way for narrative purposes.
If the intention was to get me thinking about tough concepts around mortality and off the wall magic based moral dilemma's, then mission accomplished. Almost wish you'd add an epilogue where Rumble meets Celestia for the first time years later to ask some of the questions there were no answers to at this point.
Anyway, thanks for sharing this strange tale of otherworldly magic shenanigans and squicky situations.
9958357
I can agree that it is a bit frustrating that "why kids?" is not answered. We are just like Rumble that way, and Twilight is not allowed to tell.
But, from a meta perspective: Why did the author make it about kids?
I think it is more then shock value. I think we are asked the question: what is a child? How do we see them? And are those ideas always consistent?
I don't know, I am searching for meaning but until Trick gives us the answer it might just be me seeing things.
This is a really weird idea, and I don't really like it, but I respect that you seem to have put a good deal of effort into world building.
Dang
I must say, I adore the audacity of your storytelling. It's like your brain pops up the premise, however outre, and then your storytelling gift MUST pursue it to the fullest, whatever the consequences.
Admirable. Bravo
I honestly have to say, freezing is one of the worst life extensions. The foals are stuck without the ability to be at their peak, physically and mentally. They lack the ability to be free at all except in case of sex. It's life as some kinda pet. Heck they can't even spend the extra time to learn new things, because either their owners won't let them, or they will forget them. And the worst part, they can still be killed, so it's more negatives then positives.
Inventing religion seems to be a bit easier solution for that problem
Well, she's still relatively young and healthy, so proper answer here is "not yet"
I'mma still processing the levels of this story, and that's the best part of reading.
but then later:
Perhaps I'm misreading your intent, but I took Rumble's initial statement about the band's properties to be what he knew at the time he put it on, probably from having studied it in school. At any rate, it's good so far, and I'm pleased to get a chance to read it.
9958641
That was a mistake, because I forgot I included it earlier. The third part of this chapter was written very late in the process. Removed the second reference, even though I liked it better, because I'd have to change the flow without the first one.
This logic doesn't make any sense.
In disasters, you get rioting when it becomes clear that some people will be saved while the bulk will be left to rot. The only pressure this would take off Celestia is that mad scientists and such might decide that a foal makes an easier target for abduction and vivisection.
9958607
My own body's falling apart to the point where the inevitable failure of a critical part or system can be only a few years away, yet I'm confident that were physical immortality offered me, I'd refuse with prejudice. The bad part about growing old isn't that your body fails you, but rather that the people that you know and love are gradually taken away from you, and that the world you grew up in, the world that shaped your expectations, the world that, as a child, you expected to live in as an adult, crumbles away, piece by piece. Not just physical things either, but basic assumptions about morality and justice, attitudes about the purpose of civilization and life itself.
Death is no bad thing.
9958712
I'm sorry.
That, exactly.
They keep saying "live forever" like its some kind of inescapable burden, but suicide is still on the table if he ever really wanted out.
I do like all the different attempts at a "Why?" Thunderlane is probably closest. It is inevitable that, over an infinite span of time, all possible things must occur. A ruler who lasts for long enough must, likewise, adopt all possible policies. Including the one where you have a bunch of eternal children.
I doubt that you read much science fiction, but honest to God if you don't sound like you're channeling Larry Niven. This was an outstanding story, and I'm pleased to have been able to read it. So much here to think about...
9958734
Don't be, I'm not. I perhaps sounded bleaker than I intended there. It's hard to describe - hard even to think about, not in a sense of being emotionally threatening, but just in a sense of being obtuse and slippery. At the bottom of existence, there is a basic feeling of rightness to the way things work. I can sense it, even if I can't grasp it.
That may be delusion on my part, or it may be some hardwired restraint imposed by evolution, or, possibly, it may be that I'm dimly perceiving something about the actual nature of reality. I'm far from the first to ponder this. At any rate, don't sorrow for me.
Well, that was interesting, and strange. :)
Sorry you had such trouble over it. I mean, I can see what probably led people to get upset (though I note that the story never seems to say who's right, if anyone, and there are definitely people in-universe uncomfortable with the state of things, sometimes people seem to just casually jump the gap between "there's something in this story I don't like" and "this story's author advocates something I don't like), but... I mean, it's not as if the rest of your catalog is all happy innocent puppies, is it? So I'm not sure why someone opening up a Trick Question story, when you'd been writing there for a while, wasn't prepared for any tinges of creepiness they might feel.
Anyway, thanks for sharing!
Honestly, this has gotten me thinking to the point where I am tempted to write a non canon follow up based on where my mind went with it, if you are ok with it that is.
9958744
Perhaps... if a young foal can find a surefire way to do it while being "watched like a hawk" and wearing an immortality collar they can't remove.
9958794
I was specifically channeling a recent neurology study that examined patterns in the brain and discovered the planning center of the brain shuts down when presented with any subject including both "you" and "death".
9958829
I have no choice but to care, silly.
The social world is rarely as we perceive it. We all have a fractured lens through which we see other people, and never really know them. Misunderstandings and grudges are often mistakes born from the inability to see the same way through that tempered shower-glass. I don't think things are ever as bad as they seem because I know the limitations of my social perception.
My mathematical perception, however, I can be confident in, and I know a lot about death from that. It'll be regrettable if I can't overcome my disabilities and write that book.
9958844
If you don't mark it as a sequel and are explicit that it's non-canon, sure you can.
9958851
if the planning center of the brain shuts down when presented with "you" and "death" couldn't that just mean it knows there's nothing after death so no point in planning?
I'm liking this, Trixie! The idea that one could have the chance at immortality has always been a thought for some. I'm looking forward to reading more about how others might feel about the idea.
9958950
I would argue against that, as that gets into the metaphorical of the brain definitely knows nothing is coming. I'd argue actually that the reason when death and us get into the same sentence, our brains picture it as the finale. Even if someone may have some foreign idea of something after death, there may always be this lingering knowledge of that in all physicalness, there is nothing after death.
Of course, I do wonder what the neurological study centered around when it made people think of 'death' and 'you' in the same sentence.(Note depressing things in spoiler tags) As someone who has had suicidal thoughts, it does intrigue me. Whenever I think of death, my planning never does go past death - because it has nothing to plan. But my brain then approaches it from 'what would I do before death to prepare.' Or I think about the process. Or a number load of things, depending on how severe things are at a time. For example, I've gone to places without notice - just thinking about how I jumped right now, etc., I would die. For most suicides aren't planned. How does this relate to the study?
After that long ramble, I... don't think it's because the brain knows for sure nothingness remains. It's just, our brains and us subconsciously may make that connection, and therefore the planning center shuts down due to this connection being made and the subconscious realization that there is no reason to plan. (of course, this might have been what you meant. if so, forgive me, it is nearly 3am)
All in all, I do wish suicide was mentioned among these immortals. I very much doubt no one took an out like that. THey talk about one foal dying to an accident, but no foal has ever... done the deed? It makes me wonder.
This story did make me think a lot so props on that at least! I came back to it several times today.
9958851
Okay, so now I'm all like, curious. And stuff. LOL. (as the current debased vernacular seems to go). Is the article available online? Did it include counter-logical, undefined, or non-parseable statements for ponies to ponder? E.g., "Will you be there yesterday?", or "Is the Wug octoculent?". And, I suppose, what *other* areas of the brain showed activity at that time?
Like, *hug*. And stuff. LOL.
9958950
9959396
9959450
Here's one review. As with studies of this type, the conclusion is a tentative explanation for the abstract findings, and more research needs to be done to support the thesis.
9959553
I believe it is primarily because the story is rated T, and includes the topics of sex with kids and child incest within a morally ambiguous context. These topics are extremely offensive to most readers, especially readers who avoid reading stories with the M rating.
To an extent you can sense this from some of the comments here. Readers are claiming to be disturbed in a way that is not gratifying.
For the record, the purpose of this story is not specifically to disturb the reader, and I don't find it disturbing, but I am not normal.
I knew what was in that divisive fanfic the moment Trick put it on the table.
And yet, here I am. Full disclosure: I mean "divisive" in the most matter-of-fact way I can say it, with nothing emotional attached. I just needed an adjective so it would fit the format for the opening line.
So far, the story plays with territory I've visited as early as Season 3. I remember when Celestia made Twilight an alicorn without even asking her, and I remember feeling so... so angry. How could she do this? What right did she have to another pony's life like that? And why if she could do that on such an apparent whim didn't she do it for everybody? How could she force the Princess of Friendship to watch her friends die one by one? I held this opinion for a long while, and went so far as to write up notes and an outline for a story where Sunset tempts Twilight to reject Celestia's gift with a magically enchanted dagger and run away like she'd done already, fundamentally changing Sunset's reasons for running away and framing Celestia for obscuring the truth for Twilight along the way. Twilight then talks with Celestia, who says that her friends never really pass on since their influence lives on within her, and that by remembering them, she keeps them alive within her. One of my Writeoff stories (it's old and poorly written; please don't go looking for it lol (Oh wow, Trick, you actually commented on it
)) is a result of Sunset's counterpoint to Celestia's point: A Dark Magic-induced dream sequence wherein Twilight's deceased friends are literally dead parts of herself.
That story was my first attempt at horror. Guess that tells you something about me or my views on stuff like forced immortality or something.
Now, Trick's story isn't tagged for horror, just Dark. But so far it seems to be a deconstruction of free will, and a commentary on how those around us shape our decisions more than we are aware and/or are comfortable with. If that's not horror, it's at least a mind buck. The manipulation is clearly evident in the mother's lines in the first scene, but later her apparent contradiction actually heightens the sense of manipulation.
In the middle of the second scene, there's underpinning horror vibes there as well. Most notably,
That said, I'd like to comment on the following:
Now that may be part of the reason for the downvotes, sure, but I've only read the first chapter and, as a casual TQ reader, I'm beginning to wonder if this may be mistagged or not. Even moreso since I've had the ending spoiled for me simply because it was the only thing the Writeoff talked about for something like half a week. Also, as discussed above, morally ambiguous manipulation and forcing of life-altering events do not sit well with me, so who knows? It may be a me thing. The point I'm trying to make here is that the downvotes may not be coming from your regulars, Trick.
9958839
The way the Writeoff works is everyone writes anonymously, throws their submissions into a hat (without author names attached until the end of the round), and the site draws a number of stories out of the hat for each author to read and review. No name was attached at the time of initial reading and... eh... backlash. (Granted, I haven't read more than the first chapter here or the original version offsite.) Though, yes, the other authors deduced that the author was in fact Trick within a relatively short time frame.
9959528
Not wishing to highjack the discussion topic, but, while quite interesting (and bearing in mind that I can't read the actual study), I'm not convinced that it proves anything about biological limits to mental processes. For most Westerners, your own funeral is something that someone else will plan and execute for you. It would be interesting to see the same test done on a picked group of people who have planned their own funerals in detail, or who have extremely strong views on what should be done with their body after death.
9959918
From my perspective, Celestia's a monarch, responsible not just for all of the Ponies, Griffons, Dragons, etc. that she rules, but also for the welfare of future generations as well. She's shown her concern for the happiness of individuals many times, but in the end, if she *must* have a certain result for Equestria, that would properly take precedence over the interests of any individual. Twilight's a major asset. Celestia would fail in her duty to all her subjects if she didn't try to get the most out of Twilight. She'd fail in her duty to Twilight if she didn't try to be sure that she could be happy while being useful. I think she does a good job in a difficult situation.
Well, Trick, your story is spurring thoughtful discussion, and that’s what you wanted all along, eh?
9960133
Maybe.
An interest in sparking discussion is not the primary reason I had to write this story (or why I write in general). However, I usually take spirited debate (and even flame wars) as a good sign that people are thinking, which is something I do like to encourage.
9959918
I considered a Horror tag here, given the final line of the piece and how the mood builds section by section. I actually did give a Horror tag to Innocence, Equestria in lieu of a Dark tag, and some of the themes here are identical. (Sadly, Dark is a genre tag and not a warning tag, so I can't always add it where it applies.) However, Innocence doesn't touch on the topic of death and is more overtly incestuous, sexual, and free-will-crushing than this one is. In contrast, this story is more overtly philosophical. For some people the two stories may be equally horrifying, but I don't want 'horror' to be the focus of this piece.
It's worth mentioning that the tags are there for readers, not author. I'm not suggesting that either story is dark or horrifying to me.
I'm trying really hard not to judge grammatical stuff, because 1) when I get a comment that does that, it's kinda embarrassing, and 2) well, you've written a lot more than me, and you're doubtless the much better writer, but,
um... that was really tell-y and not very show-y and it... um... kinda stuck out at me.
Wow. Bold words for a brony. Then again, this is through Rumble's eyes, so I guess that explains it.
inb4 Cozy Glow side fic in the Frozen-verse. The rules are juuuuust loose enough that she can hit up Celestia's vault and Starlight's village in such an order that she can gain immortality and rule the nation.
Ah! Sorry, sorry! That'd be my cynical side trying to hijack and twist the story.
But seriously...
So, I'm not completely unfamiliar with your highly symbolic writing style, Trick, and ever since I arrived late at the blank story on the Writeoff site I've been asking myself, "Why foals? That was an intentional choice. Why?" The answer, through the eyes of one such frozen foal, is Hope and Purity. Which is interesting since, at the time of writing, Cozy Glow was already canon. And it's not like child villains are new to Friendship is Magic, either, as all the Darla Dimple comparisons clearly demonstrate. And I know there's more chapters, but the fact that there's enough in-universe truth for Sweet Pop to believe what she's saying is significant.
But as I said, there's more chapters...
That is one of that kind of very wise questions you're supposed to pretend you have no answer for, I presume?
Later that evening Twiggles slipped on wet floor in her castle bathroom and it turned out that in contest between hard crystal and pony skull crystal comes on top ten times out of ten.
It almost sounds like others aren't directly accounted in utility function of friendship princess.
Yeah, that would be foolproof indication of social status being actual concern here.
Or maybe that's just because in everypony's personal history of operant conditioning death IS event that only ever happens to other ponies. For obvious reasons.
9958712
Weii, I'm just 30-something and probably close to as healthy as I ever be, so I don't even know where did I get that silly notion that death is a bad thing. Although... Hmmm... Human life expectancy divided by 30... Assuming uniform distribution on ages of people I care about...
Oh.
Ooooohhhhhh.
FUUUUCK
I've written over 150K words of a single Starlight Glimmer universe, and put in countless hours studying Starlight Glimmer and exactly what makes her tick. This... gave me pre-redemption Starlight Glimmer vibes.
Starlight Glimmer's story was given the short end of the stick by the writers, and I recognize that even as a fan of her. The S5 premiere I have only one major problem with, but the finale makes up for it in horrible pacing and poor character motivations. But yet, after significant study, the story of Starlight Glimmer finally came through for me. I find it interesting that she calls her villagers "friends" considering she lost her singular friend growing up. It's almost as if that's what she wants more than anything else. Oh, in terms of her jumps in logic, she's totally unhinged, but the fact that "You get to sit in this room with a choice of yes or no and you can't get out by yourself, so the correct answer is yes because I miss my foalhood friend" is so few steps from "You get to wear this collar with a choice of yes or no and you can't take it off yourself, so pretty please say yes because I miss my spouse and daughter" is either intentionally terrifying or a really odd choice. I mean, if we're talking about characters who are selfish...
In fact, let me put those two sentences side by side so as to demonstrate just how similar they are.
I mean, it's still free will, technically--almost pointlessly--but in a super stretched kind of way. Rumble's particular situation only serves to reinforce this assertion. The topic of infinity bands (which was how the short description advertised the story) is not inherently as controversial as it would otherwise be for, say, another pony. Rumble's situation is straying farther and farther into dubious consent territory, albeit used in a nonsexual context (albeit with a sexual context some years later). So in summary, that's 1) dubious consent (though not immediately sexual) of 2) a foal plus 3) erosion of free will via 4) peer--or rather, authority figure--pressure. Add in sex, and now we're only a frighteningly few steps away from an off-handed comment during a heated moment in a certain writing group; a nearly perfect storm. The problem with grey areas is that one eventually has to draw a line somewhere, and everybody is different.
I don't mean to rehash the past, and as I'm sitting here typing, I don't even know if I'm going to post this reply. I think I'm gonna give this review a break and come back to it here in a bit. Maybe one final edit for this top bit, but that's it.
I'm sorry, Trick. It's just... I want to help, and I'm not sure how or if I can. I've taken to giving a civilized deconstruction of why it may not work with some people, but I'm worried it's getting too negative. You're a great person, Trick, and I enjoy seeing you in the community here on FimFiction. I don't want to lose you or for you to lose part of yourself.
If you feel I'm doing too much, just say so, and I'll leave a upvote to balance out one of the fire-and-forget downvotes and check the "Mark as Read" boxes on the other two chapters. I don't want to be excessively negative, and I hope by pointing that out, I'm not making it worse.
I've gone back and forth on posting this comment for a few hours now. Still on the fence, and now on top of being unsure, I'm tired, so I'll make the call in the morning.
It's afternoon now, not morning. But I've decided. Against what I said above, refined the top part. Here's hoping it's the right choice. If I'm doing more harm than help, please say something.
9962016
Hmm? It's fine, write whatever you like. I'm not bothered at all by criticism or comments.
9962016
This is not what bothers me, and I'm perfectly fine with it.
And you're not obligated to upvote the story! Feel free to downvote if you don't like it. Seriously, you should.
Questions of what Sunbutt's real reasons for this are, I do love the story. And now I'll probably end up taking the idea and using it.
Not at all connected to this mind you. Just inspired by it. It's too good not too.
9975920
I alienated a lot of friends with this story, sadly.
10061604
I'm glad somepony enjoyed it.
9958357
Given the content in both stories, I literally can't believe anypony finds this creepier than TSJ, but despite the hyperbole I'm still flattered.
You may find Innocence, Equestria similarly troubling.
Sorry—can't help but take it that way.
10061705
I have it open when on my desktop machine, but I almost never have the tab active. I'm super busy and bad at that sort of thing.