Applejack - Why Do We Lie
All things considering, Guys Night was a success. Luck was on their side as they covered much ground and were able to leave it off from a really good spot. The cardboard army was defeated, assassins missed their mark on Sir McBiggun, and it all ended with a satisfying conclusion of getting the next clue to finding Shmarity. The pizza was delicious, the jokes abundant and hilarious. All in all, it was perfect.
By the crack of sunrise, Discord was walking Big Macintosh home, for the sole reason of putting ideas together for their next session. Hovering next to the stallion with a little black book, the Ex-God of Chaos was busily jotting down the suggestion. After all, it is going to be his turn to be the story master next Saturday.
“…. So the flaming, poisoned tip arrows in the temple of doom would be too much?”
Big Mac raised an eyebrow, “And ya don’t think it isn’t?”
Discord shrugged, “Personally it’s either that or the buzz saws that would pop out from the floor – but I think the latter would be a bit overkill. After all, if we’re going into a jungle setting where there’s a stone temple smack dab in the middle of it, you would think there would be a trap or twelve in there.”
“Point taken.” Mac mused over for a minute. “But if we’re gonna do this, the least ya can do is ta be a little more original then what Daring Do faces in those books. If ya goin’ ta go fer a jungle temple, then at least be different than just have a monster that’s released from by a button.”
Nodding, Discord nodded it down. “It’ll be challenging, but I’m certainly up for it.”
Soon enough, they walked up to a hill to where they could see the farm itself; along with a rather curious sight. Although they were out of hearing range, there was something going on as Applejack was giving quite the stern (if not angry) lecture to Applebloom. However, instead of listening, the little sister was talking back. Whatever happened before Big Mac or Discord arrived, it must have been really upsetting. A hoof pointed here, a stomp there, and shouting.
“The hey got inta them?” Big Mac asked aloud.
“They’re arguing about how Applebloom lied that Granny’s strudel is still great when in fact it isn’t.”
Mac was about to ask how exactly he knew that, but his question was quickly answered when he saw Discord with a pair of binoculars. “Ya can read lips too?”
“When you’ve been a statue for millennia, you tend to pick up on a few things. But that’s not neither here nor there.” He lowered the binoculars. “Apparently your little sis is grounded and still upset about it. And your other one can’t understand why she would do that.” This got him thinking. “I’ll leave you to your family issues, it appears that I have work to do.”
Mac raises an eyebrow. “Why? What are ya goin’ on doin’?”
“It seems that Applejack is in need of my services.”
Out in the apple orchard, while Applejack didn’t say a word, she was still upset. With every swift kick of each trunk, her mind still replayed what happened over breakfast. It started as soon as she has woken up when she noticed that Granny Smith was already whipping up their meal before heading out to the fields. But no sooner had she arrived that she couldn’t help but notice that her grandmother was putting the recipe of apple strudel in a very unconventional way. Even though the old mare insisted that she knew exactly what she was doing, the younger wasn’t convinced that sawdust, buttercup flowers, cayenne pepper, and shaving cream were part of the recipe.
By the time she put breakfast down on the table, Applebloom entered. Despite the look on her sister’s face that knew very well that something was off about the strudel, Applejack watched in disgust as she heard her own sibling say, “Ya really outdid yerself this time, Granny.”
It wasn’t just because that Appleboom lied that got her upset. It was over the fact that she had to tell her sister, again, that lying was only going to lead to bad consequences. She spent a good ten or so minutes to present an argument to her that if she kept continuing on lying to their grandmother that her cooking is still as good as ever when, in fact, it isn’t, then it would only escalate things. However, when it was clear that the little sister wasn’t listening, she had to ground her for the day.
‘How many times do we have ta drill it in her head?’ She asked herself rather bitterly, after another swift buck to a tree trunk. ‘Lyin’ won’t help solve anythin’! There ain’t no need fer a good pony like herself ta be goin’ about fibbin’.’
Another hard kick against a tree, and instead of apples falling from its branches, dozens of green question marks fell into the baskets. Applejack blinked. “What in tarnation?” She looked up at the tree to notice that it was growing so very bizarre fruit. It wasn’t the only thing that was hanging from it. In one of the branches, hanging on from a question mark cane was Discord in a green suit and bowler hat.
“Riddle me this,” he said, “when is it that something false can be true, and something true can be false?”
“Discord?”
“Wrong!” He hopped out from the branches, giving her a small whack on the forehead. While the farmer was rubbing the spot that was hurting, Discord landed on the tip of her snout. “Answer: When it needs to be.”
“Discord! What the hay do ya think yer doin’?!” Applejack tried to brush him off like he was a pesky fly. “Ah’m tryin’ ta work here!”
“Oh-ho no you don’t!” Discord retorted, growing back to his original size. “You, little miss, need to hear this.”
“Hear what? Ah ain’t got time fer any of yer nonsense.”
Frowning, the spirit of random clapped his hands together, and the two of them felt a shockwave as everything from the rustling leaves in the trees to the flight of birds froze in position. “Now you do.”
“What did you jus-”
“Freeze time for a while.” Discord interrupted. “I couldn’t help but notice this morning how you were scolding your little sister over a lie she told.”
“How did you…” She was about to ask but figuring that she was talking to Discord, it’s best not try to question it. “Well yeah, so what? It’s none of yer business.”
He shrugged, “With personal matters, you are absolutely right. However, when it comes to your mentality – oh it truly is my business. Being the guy that teaches philosophy in this universe, I just felt that you’re in need of my lessons.”
Applejack deadpanned. “Ah ain’t yer student, ya know.”
“That’s where you’re wrong. Not everyone wants wisdom, but they certainly do need it. And you, as of right now at this very moment, are in need of it. So while I can guess what the issue is with you personally, I want to hear it directly from you first.”
She sighed, “Ya ain’t gonna leave until Ah give inta yer games, is that right?”
“Hm… Pretty much, yeah.”
With an annoyed groan, she said, “Alright, fine. Let’s get this over with. Yes, there’s somethin’ botherin’ me like a housefly that overstayed its welcome. In short, Ah caught my little sis lyin’ ta Granny over something that Ah think shouldn’t be lyin’ about in the first place.”
“Oh? Now, why is this bothering you so much?”
“Because we’re Apples! We ain’t suppose ta lie. It’s wrong and it does nopony good except just tryin’ ta avoid responsibility. Now Ah’ve been tryin’ hard ta be a role model fer Applebloom as long as Ah could remember. On top of bein’ the whole Element of Honesty thin’, Ah have ta live up ta what Ah stand for. It’s just… Ah just can’t understand why anyone would as good as Applebloom would go around tyin’ lies. If she’d really valued the truth as she so claims ta be, she would have told Granny that what she made this mornin’ is jus’ awful. That she ain’t makin’ things the way she used ta.”
Discord paced around for a moment to consider this problem. “Perhaps the best way to look at it is to ask yourself one question: Why does one lie, to begin with?”
Applejack raised an eyebrow. “Ain’t it obvious? Most ponies lie because they could protect themselves, shift the blame on someone else as long as it ain’t them.”
The chaos spirit hummed, walking up a trunk of one of the apple trees. “Like how a foal would knock over a vase and blame it on the cat even though it’s clear they did it?”
She nodded, “Exactly. Most lies are either that or just flat out slander. Lies can hurt ponies ya know.”
“So according to you, anyone who lies is doing it to avoid responsibility or make it so that someone suffers because of it?”
“Pretty much. That what all lies do, right?” Discord didn’t look convinced. “Oh c’ mon! Ya ain’t sayin’ that there’s a way that lies can be used fer good?”
“All I’m saying is that there is a legitimate reason for why anyone would do so. Maybe not a smart one, but there is a solid reason to do so.” Pulling his tail off, it morphs into a snake in which its tail wrapped around one of the falling apples. “In your head, you’ve become so conditionally brainwashed in the idea that the truth is always worth it, even if it means getting yourself in major trouble. That any liar is revolting because they do all they can to avoid a necessary but important truth for the sake of their low personal gain, am I right?”
Applejack nodded, and the snake that used to be Discord’s tail lowered an apple in front of her and started talking. “However, the so-called ‘truth’ is that those like your little sister lies don’t deceive for their own benefit.”
“That’s a bunch of horseapples!”
“Oh? Do you think this too is a lie? According to your own logic, I would have something to gain from not being responsible, hurt your sister, or perhaps even to protect myself. But you know there’s a problem with all of those – to what do I have to gain out of this? Confronting your prejudice isn’t irresponsible. I don’t have any personal gripe against Applebloom. And what need would I have for protecting myself from you? There isn’t a thing that I would lie about.
“Instead,” Discord’s tail offered up the apple to her, “perhaps I could give you a gift. A new perspective on dishonesty you never saw before. To give you insight on why any good creature would want to deceive.”
Applejack raised an eyebrow. “And all Ah have ta do is take a bite of that, right?”
“Of course,” Discord said, “I was originally going to have you choose between a blue and red pill, but that trope has been done to death and given the current circumstances… the readers would go on for years how this thing doesn’t make sense.”
“You really confuse me sometimes.” Applejack took hold of the apple. “But whatever. Let’s get this over with.”
She took a bite.
The closest thing that the mare could comprehend as to what exactly happened next was as if Time and Space itself had exploded. All over the orchard, trees reverted back to their saplings and were chopped down into firewood at the same time. Dead relatives and future foals could go about working and playing at the same moment. Ponyville was simultaneously founded and destroyed for good at the same point in time. Equestria began and ended, she saw the first ponies being born and the last die. She saw instantly the universe being born and destroyed at the same instant – along with everything else. To say the least, it was giving her a headache.
However, the only thing that was constant within this shifting, unpredictable landscape was Discord. “Speaking as someone that has been around the block for – putting it quite generously – a while, I can tell you that there’s a reason why even the good lie. The truth is that all intelligent creatures are always ready, and at times, excited to tell lies. This may sound strange to you at first, but the good don’t do it to protect themselves, nor are they disloyal to facts out of dishonesty’s sake.” He knelt down to her. “As impossible as this sounds at first for you, they do it because they love the truth so much that they will, out of good-will, lie to those they care about what they’re deceiving.”
Applejack shut her eyes tight, “How in the HAY does any of that make sense!?”
Discord stood straight up and, with a thunderous clap of his hands, the universe and time stood still, melted, and then something a little more slightly coherent came into being. Applejack blinked for a moment, but it became clear as to what exactly she was looking at. In every direction were screens that depicted those that are familiar to her, historical events, and what she assumes to be the future – all together in a mixed-up, jumbled mess.
“Where did ya take me?”
“This?” Discord waved a claw. “To help you understand what I was talking about in the simplest terms possible, I thought it would be a good idea to show you time itself. Every moment that has is and will be is being projected here.”
Applejack raised an eyebrow. “Oh what? Yer jus’ gonna pick out the moment where me and Applebloom had that argument this mornin’?”
“Nope!” Discord smiled. “That would be way too predictable! Instead,” He reached into the ether with his paw to fish out a particular screen. “The best one to choose why someone as good as your little sis would lie come from something that won’t accrue until a good… thirty years later.”
He pulled out a particular screen, upon which was a pony that Applejack recognized as her younger sister. Only this one looks much more… mature. Older even. The Applebloom she saw was taller, had a long red mane and her signature pink bow was missing. She was with a foal that Applejack didn’t recognize and was with an older version of her in the kitchen. If anything, to her it was even more off-putting to see a vision of her much older self baking.
“Here ya go youngin’s.” The ancient Applejack said, putting a tray of apple pie down on the table. “Jus’ like how mah ma used ta make it.” However, just by looking at it, the present Applejack could tell instantly that it wasn’t. The thing that was placed down was a steaming mess that looked like somepony scooped whatever was in the swamp and tossed it into the oven.
The foal on the screen seemed to reflect the present Applejack’s expression while Applebloom gave the older one a kind smile. “It certainly is sis. Thanks, fer goin’ though the trouble.”
“Oh it ain’t no trouble one bit!” the granny Applejack happily said, “This oughtta keep ya fed fer a good long while.”
“It certainly would, this looks amazing.” The foal looked at Applebloom, taken aback at what she just said. “Let’s put it in a basket so we can take it with us.”
After this was done and they said their goodbyes, Applebloom and the foal then walked off the farm. Then, out of hearing distance, the foal asked, “Aunt Bloom, why did you do that?”
“Do what?”
“C’ mon, Ah know ya just lied to her jus’ now. That apple pie looks awful!”
Applebloom sighed, “Yeah Ah know, but the thing is, Ah kinda have ta.”
“Why?”
She stopped for a moment, looked behind her before turning back to her nephew. “Look, it ain’t somethin’ that Ah expect ya ta get, heck, even Applejack never got it. Tell me, have ya ever heard that at times, the truth must always be protected by a bodyguard of lies?”
Her nephew nodded. “Ah think that was some general guy that said it.”
“Wind Carrothill,” she nodded, “at the time he meant that as a way ta keep really big secrets against enemies. However, when Ah heard it at school long ago, it gave me a new idea that Ah never considered before.”
“And what’s that?”
“That sometimes, ponies are walkin’ about believin’ in things that ain’t true. Not because they’re bein’ mean about it, but because that’s how they see themselves. Tellin’ them they’re wrong is like swingin’ a hammer over their hooves. Bein’ told that they’re wrong is so painful that they would either fight ya or flee away because how they’d see themselves is wrapped up with whatever they think is true. Take Applejack, her mind is slowly goin’ and she still thinks she can bake better than Pinkie. However, we both know that ain’t true. If Ah told her that pie in the basket is bad, to her, Ah might as well say, ‘Ah don’t like yer pie and Ah hate you.’ But we both know that ain’t true at all. Ya see? When she’s blinded by something that ain’t true, then Ah has to give her a small dose of a lie so that the bigger truth remains safe. Ya understand?”
The nephew nodded. “So what you’re saying is that you lie so that you won’t have to hurt Aunt Applejack’s feelings?”
“Yep. And ya know why?”
Thinking about this for a moment, the nephew guessed, “Because, even if it is a lie, you do it because you want to let her know that she’s still loved – right?”
“Yeah, ya get it.” She said, rubbing her nephew’s head.
The present Applejack looked on, stunned. “So… She does it out of love?”
“Kinda,” Discord said, disregarding that screen. “She is aware that most good creatures lie because they’re aware that others tend to believe in things that aren’t always true, but they identify themselves so closely to it. They’re carefully told, of course, because they do love the truth, in it that they want to make sure that others are aware of a greater truth than the facts of what just happened. Your sister’s advice is especially useful to understand some trickier situations.” He reached into the void of time and pulled out another screen. “For example, you know about Mrs. Cake, right?”
“Yeah? What about her?”
“You know how last week she went to Vanhoover for that baking convention?”
She shrugged. “Yeah? So?”
“Apparently, she told her husband that-” He pulled up the screen where Mrs. Cake telling her husband while their foals played that:
“It was pretty boring, really. After the convention, I spent my time in my hotel room, ordering room service.”
Discord put a paw over the screen, in which it froze. “But that, however, is a lie.”
Applejack looked up at Discord in alarm. “What are ya talkin’ about?”
Moving his paw away, he flung it to one side and the screen reeled quickly backward until Discord let it play at one point. “What Mrs. Cake didn’t tell her husband, is that after the convention, she was feeling rather down so she went to the hotel’s bar.” The screen showed a rosy-cheeked Mrs. Cake with a glass in her hooves, sweetly chatting to a younger, good looking stallion who was probably just as drunk as she is. “While there she was caught up yapping away with the nearest pony who was just as plastered as she was…” Then he fast-forwards time to a hotel room with them kissing away. “Eventually, things got carried away and they slip into a nearby bed.”
Applejack was stunned. “She didn’t-”
“And before you say she cheated, not exactly,” Discord held up an X-Ray scan to show what was going on beneath the sheets. “They didn’t make love, as you can see, they’re still too drunk to do that, but they did have a sweet time. Despite the intimacy, they both knew that following morning that this didn’t mean much, if at all, to either of them. Neither of them found love with one another. They both knew how little this was, and they won’t likely see each other again.” He fast-forwards again back to the part where Mrs. Cake lied to her husband. “So, by the time she gets back, and her spouse tells her how things went, she distorts what really happened.” Suddenly he snapped a claw, and the screen froze. “So, if by your standards that if even she should never lie, ever, for any reason for any circumstance, then tell me, how do you think things would have played out if she really did give him an unfiltered version of the truth?”
Applejack took off her Stetson. “Sheesh… But Mrs. Cake still loves Mr. Cake, right?” Discord nodded. “So… Ah reckon that even if she did tell him the truth, it would just… destroy him beyond repair. If he knew, he’d think that she doesn’t love him anymore and would probably seek out a divorce for it.”
Discord nodded. “But if that were to happen, would Mr. Cake’s judgment of the truth, be true?”
“Well, no.” She rubbed her head. “Ah suppose she wasn’t exactly in her right mind after some drinks. And she Ah suppose that she still loved Mr. Cake, despite bein’ with somepony else. It didn’t look like she did it ta be cruel.”
“But for a moment back there,” Discord pointed out, “you almost said otherwise. You almost did make the connection between infidelity and callousness. But I suppose for you, it’s understandable. If you hear the news from your special somepony that ‘I spent the night with someone from Vanhoofer,’ which is true, to mean ‘I don’t love you anymore’ which is not true. However, when someone as good as Mrs. Cake said to her spouse, ‘I didn’t sleep with anyone,’ which isn’t true at all, she’s trying to secure a greater idea: ‘I still love you, sweetie.’ Which is overwhelmingly true.”
“But you’re making it sound like good ponies lie to others is a good thing.”
“I didn’t say that.” He pushes the screen away. “I’m saying that sometimes ponies do so as a form of kindness. Those like Applebloom know that most effective way of telling the truth isn’t by using word for incriminating word accuracy, it’s about making sure that, once spoken, the other will be left with a true picture of reality.”
With these words, Applejack’s ears folded back, a screen floated by them in which showed her argument with her sister that morning. But as it went by, she wasn’t focused on her words, but rather her sister’s expression. Angry, but heartbroken of a sister that simply will never understand.
“Riddle me this,” Discord said, lifting his tail, “how is someone the villain, but not the villain?” his tail snapped, and Applejack was back to an ordinary, moving orchard.
On the way back, Applejack thought about what Discord had said. Even though a part of her wasn’t entirely convinced, the improvised lesson did provide her with a perspective that she could never imagine thinking about. Her sister may have lied, but for something nobler then she had given credit for.
It took several minutes until she walked into the farmhouse, up the stairs and came face to face with her sister’s door. After giving it a few knocks, her sister, still sour from that morning looked up to her. “What do you want?”
Applejack sighed, “AB, Ah wanna talk.”
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Honesty and truth are two different but similar things. Truth is an absolute, and is thus not to be trusted. One may be honest with someone without telling them the truth, who walks down the street saying the first thing that comes to his mind? I once heard it said that "that which may be destroyed by the truth should be", but anyone who has ever taught children knows that telling them exactly how capable they are at the start won't do their confidence much good.
Absolutes cause trouble, I am always wary of messing with them.
Winston Churchill?
A lot of times, there are ways to not "lie" and still fall under this strategy. For instance, the pair of statements "that smells nice" and "tastes just as I thought" implies it tastes good, even if you know from looking at it that it'll be horrible. Of course, that requires wordsmithing levels not everyone can possess.
It's also the principal behind my theoretical "introductions for interdimensional travelers", saying you come from "far away" instead of "another world" and things like that. By the time the friendlies notice there's something deeper, they'll already have learned who you are, and are ready to learn what.
9777659
Well, technically that's "lying by omission".
I dunno. I can see where you're going, but...not sure Applejack was in the wrong regarding the lie about the food? I mean, what if Granny'd put something really bad in?
Then again, I once had an idea for a story where Applejack wishes that everyone was completely and utterly honest. Society promptly collapses as everyone tells each other the absolute truth, friendships break, relationships shatter, the economy tanks, the government falls apart, most world religions self-destruct, and Twilight loses her mind because she's no longer able to read most of her books. Discord was involved there, too.
Would you lie to your enemy? Or to avoid undue or ill timed pain? One should only lie when the damage it does grossly outweigh any "justice" or good it intends
To quote a certain Blues Brother, we took the liberty of bamboozling ya.
9777480
Me. I don't think about about anything. Wisdom gushes forth as soon as the words hit my brain
9847138
You know, my grandma is 82, and her memory has seen better days. We spend a lot of time telling her she's got things wrong or trying to diffuse discusions started because she's confused.
My father and his siblings end up losing their temper with her in the bad days; life has worn down their patience.
It hurts my grandma when her children chastise her for the big problems, and we lie to her for the little things so she doesn't grow anxious and worsens her health.
We lie to her, and we are honest with her. Both suck.
Have you read On Bullshit, by Dr. Harry Frankfurt? It's basically an essay, and Frankfurt was on the philosophy faculty at Princeton. He has an interesting take on the distinction between truth, lies, and bullshit (and yes, that's exactly what he calls it). In a nutshell, a liar knows the truth, but makes a deliberate attempt to point the listener away from it.
A bullshitter, though, doesn't care about the truth. This leaves them free to say anything with the same conviction that a truth-teller or a liar might have.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KnightsAndKnaves
9847138
Unless she watches them eat then slip it away when she not looking. As for the rest maybe Applejack should take over the cooking more saying that she thinks that after all granny done for all of them they should do more for her. No risk of bad food and granny probably got friends she could visit if she wasn't taking care of things so often.
9777480
Yeah there a story that points this out but mature readers only. Not for little kids who we are trying to keep in the dark about life's dark side. Deerskin is a good book.