Ever since Midnight had first started living at the Friendship Palace, Starlight had been wary of her. She didn't fear that she would attack her or anything like that, but there was just something about her that was simply off to her. The way she would stare out for long periods, the way she'd avoid talking to other ponies. She was just so unlike the Princess Starlight had come to know that it often took her aback at just how unnerving she was. Today was no exception to this, as Twilight's student looked to her mentor's double, who was, for now, sitting quietly outside the palace, looking out at something that had caught her interest. Starlight had only just left the place herself, and was only now noticing her, but as soon as she did, she at least tried to put on a friendly face.
"So, Midnight. You doing okay today?"
The doppelganger gave her only the slightest of glances.
"I'm fine, thanks for asking."
As usual, the words were blunt and to-the-point, but it was probably the most tempered she'd been with her thus far. Still, Starlight had little time to focus on that, as she instead looked over to what Midnight had been so transfixed by. There, far away from the palace, was a group of colts and fillies. Three of them, all earth ponies from the looks of it, were standing in front of a smaller unicorn filly, with the latter of which looking decidedly concerned with something. She had, in her hoof, an ice cream, and one of the larger colts pointed to it. What they were saying to her, the two mares couldn't make out, but it was clear that it wasn't a good situation, as shown by Starlight's depressed-sounding sigh.
"You know, I'd have hoped that living so close to the Princess of Friendship would teach local ponies to be nicer...but I guess we're always going to get moments like this every once in a while."
Midnight narrowed her eyes.
"...Bullying?"
Starlight nodded in response, and the two of them watched as the filly, after having apparently been given some harsh words by her compatriots, gave her ice cream to them, which was eagerly seized by the largest of the earth pony children. The group moved away soon after, leaving a very unhappy-looking filly behind them. Starlight sighed to this.
"I guess that's a few more children I'll have to squeeze into my counselling sessions."
Midnight looked to her.
"You plan to talk to them?"
Starlight nodded.
"Yeah. We'll talk to the bullies about how wrong it is for them to have done that, and I'll also have to console the filly. She's probably not feeling too good right now."
A moment passed, and then Midnight frowned.
"I think we can do far more than that."
Before Starlight had the chance to ask what she'd meant by that, Midnight's horn glowed, and within seconds, she was gone, having used some kind of teleportation spell. Frantically, Starlight looked around to where she might have gone to, and it wasn't long before she figured it out. She had gone straight over to the bullied filly, causing Starlight's eyes to widen.
"Oh no!"
She charged forward, terrified over what might be about to happen. This was the first time since her arrival that Midnight had spoken to anypony outside of the palace, and as such, Starlight's mind raced with all sorts of dark possibilities. But, she did remember that this was a mare who bore the same face as her mentor, and that fact, above all others, caused even greater fear, given how these yet-to-be actions might be perceived. As for Midnight herself, she confidently strode forward, speaking up and gaining the filly's attention.
"You there!"
The filly turned, and looked on with shock at who was now approaching her.
"Oh! Princess Twilight? I didn't see you there."
Midnight frowned at having been mistaken for her original, but put that irritation aside, instead pointing an accusing hoof at the child.
"Would you care to explain what just happened?"
Realising what she was talking about, the filly hung her head in shame.
"Yeah...they've done that a couple of times. I don't like it, but..."
She trailed off for a moment, then looked back up to the older mare.
"It's fine. They didn't hurt me or anything."
But Midnight wasn't happy with that response.
"That is exactly why I'm here, girl."
The filly wasn't quite sure how to take that tone.
"Um...I'm sorry?"
Midnight glanced off in the direction the other children had gone off to.
"Those delinquents will get a talking to, you mark my words. But..."
She looked back to the child before her.
"...I want you to tell me why you didn't do anything to stop them doing what they did."
Naturally, having words like that come out of the mouth of someone with the face of Princess Twilight took the filly aback quite a bit, and she stumbled greatly.
"I...erm...I'm not sure what you mean."
Midnight sighed.
"You simply let them treat you like that. You let them take something from you and you did nothing to stop it from happening!"
The filly was, understandably, flustered by this.
"Well...I asked them to stop. I told them it wasn't nice!"
Midnight rolled her eyes.
"And they went ahead in spite of your words, didn't they?"
Again, the filly hung her head.
"Y...yes."
Like before, Midnight pointed her hoof to her.
"You should have fought them!"
To that, the filly's head snapped back in Midnight's direction.
"What?!"
Midnight nodded.
"You heard me! You should have defended yourself from what they were doing!"
The filly stood there, mouth agape, and as soon as she'd recovered from the shock of hearing something like that, she once more fumbled her words.
"But...but...but...there were three of them!"
In response, Midnight pointed to the child's horn.
"And you have magic. You have a power they lack. I assure you, their size and numbers would have meant nothing in the face of a unicorn's self-defence."
The filly seemed somewhat upset by this particular brand of advice.
"But...that's mean!"
Midnight scoffed at that.
"Oh, sure, you're the mean one for protecting yourself against bullies. How could I have forgotten that?" she said sarcastically.
Thankfully for the filly, she didn't have to try and counter that point with Midnight for much longer, as it was right here that Starlight finally arrived, prompting a raised eyebrow from Midnight as she saw her.
"Pardon me, Starlight, but the child and I are in the middle of something here."
Now, Starlight was quite unhappy about this so far, but instead of talking to Midnight straight away, she put on a fake smile, forcing a laugh and looking to her in a jovial manner.
"Oh, you silly Changeling! You know better than the play tricks on little fillies like this!"
Instantly, Midnight scowled at her.
"...Pardon me?"
The words had been spoken calmly, but Starlight could hear the ice behind them. But for now, she looked to the filly.
"Don't you worry, little one. This isn't really Princess Twilight. It's just a Changeling pulling a trick. You know the real Twilight wouldn't tell you to do things like that, right?"
Though at first confused, the filly gave a slow nod afterwards.
"Yeah...okay."
The child then frowned at Midnight.
"You're a tricky Changeling! That wasn't nice!"
And with that, the filly ran off, leaving Starlight and Midnight to watch her go. As soon as she was out of earshot, however, the dark clone glowered angrily at her unicorn companion.
"I very much hope that you know I don't like being compared to Changelings."
Normally, Starlight would have been intimidated at having Midnight speak to her like that, but right now, she had a far more pressing thing to focus on.
"And I don't appreciate you giving terrible advice to children! Especially when they might think it was Twilight herself who was saying it!"
Midnight raised an eyebrow.
"And what, pray tell, was the 'bad advice' I was giving?"
Starlight chuckled dryly.
"Do I really have to spell it out? You told that girl she needed to use violence to solve her problems! How is it a good idea to have children fighting one another?!"
Midnight rolled her eyes.
"You're acting like I was telling her to go out and punch anyone she comes across. All I said was that she needed to defend herself against her assailants."
Starlight pointed to her.
"We never give advice like that, Midnight! Violence is never the answer to our problems!"
Midnight took on an amused look as she regarded her.
"Says the pot calling the kettle black?"
Starlight grimaced to that, then softened and let out a sigh.
"Yeah, you're right. I have used violence myself. More times than I care to think about."
Her eyes narrowed.
"And I regretted each and every one of them in the end. I never realised that an open hoof could be more powerful than a shot from a horn. When I did finally accept that lesson, I looked back over my past acts and saw them for what they were...misguided."
Midnight listened to all of that, but continued to remain unconvinced.
"Well, it's a good thing that girl had me here to tell her something useful. If it had been left to you or the Princess, all she would have been told is that trying to be friends with her bullies is what she should want. Hey, maybe they can one day reminisce about the time they took her ice cream from her, wouldn't that be fun?"
Starlight seemed offended by that mocking tone.
"What, you think we're giving them bad advice? Friendship is kind of our job, Midnight!"
Midnight nodded.
"Yes, it is. And yet you seem completely unwilling to accept that there are some people out there that won't accept that friendship. People that will just ignore kind words and just do what they want."
Starlight shook her head.
"That's not true!"
Midnight looked back to her with scorn.
"It is true, Starlight! And believe me, I know that better than any of you! I know how important it is to use force to get yourself out of a tight spot. So don't get all sanctimonious and preachy on me!"
But Starlight, to her credit, did not flinch or budge from that, instead holding her ground and frowning right back.
"Oh really? And how exactly did you come to that conclusion?"
Taking a single determined step forward, Midnight brought her face within an inch of Starlight's, looking right into her eyes.
"...Because of Chrysalis."
Just like that, Starlight's confidence wavered, for she now knew exactly where this was going. Midnight, seeing that realisation in her counter's eyes, nevertheless explained herself anyway.
"When she and I last met, we came to blows. She used her power in an effort to destroy me. She didn't want compromise, or reconciliation, or peace...she just wanted me dead. Now then..."
She paused, taking a moment to calm herself slightly.
"...you've known her as well, Starlight. So tell me. If I had tried to be friendly, or diplomatic, or open with her...would she have stayed her hoof?"
Starlight said nothing, instead beginning to slowly look away. Midnight, knowing she now had the upper hoof in this, gave a nod.
"Exactly. She would have just kept on going. If I had not used force in that moment, if I had not defended myself...I wouldn't even be here for this little chat of ours."
Her next words were uttered with pure venom in her tone.
"She...would...have...killed me."
For a time afterwards the two mares said nothing to one another, with Starlight continuing to look away from the mirror image of her mentor. After a few minutes had passed, however, Midnight scoffed, then began to turn, heading back towards the palace.
"Now, if you don't mind, I'm gonna go and find a nice book to read. I think a little privacy would be welcome at this point."
Starlight looked back to her, watching her go. And only when the doppelganger was out of sight did she finally let out a deep sigh.
"Oh, Twilight...I hope you have better luck helping her get past this attitude...because this counselling session, is way out of my league!"
I'm taking Midnight side, friendship can't solve everything. There are people who will see you as weak and an easy target just because you try to be nice and act peacefully. I'm not saying everyone should do that, but some people deserve a good kick in the butt, since it's the only way they understand.
You can disagree with me but you can't easily deny that, it's sad, it's bad yes, but c'est la vie.
I have to side with Midnight here. She is not wrong that sometimes a bullied kid has to say enough is enough and start defending emselves.
This was a GREAT chapter. I love that someone called them out on their honestly childish beliefs. Not everyone can be your friend, taking every blow and turning the cheek will sometime just leave you beaten and bloody. A person HAS to have the will to defend themselves because being 'good' or 'nice' isn't always going to be the solution to a problem. And lets be frank here the girls SOOO can't talk like they have never used violence to solve their issues before. I can think of a number of times, most of them from Twilight herself, where violence was the solution to their problem. I honestly think that if this was brought up a number of the girls, and Spike would agree. I mean I can so see AJ, Dash, and Spike agreeing with her. Not everyone can be reasoned with or can be made into your friend.
Midnight has the right of it here, whether Starlight likes it or not. Violence might not be the perfect answer to some things. But sometimes there is no other choice.
And season 8, will soon make what she said perfectly clear. Some beings don't deserve it at all.
Midnight's not wrong though, she could have worded it better, but she wasn't wrong
And it's sad to think there are parents who think bullies don't exist.
Ah, refreshing. I really agree with Midnight on that one. Within reason, but she did take care of that already.
They were just sitting there, watching and doing nothing?
Hmm. On the one hand, I have to agree with the fact that, yes, there will be people who will refuse reconciliation, friendship and peaceful solutions to problems, and yes, there will be situations where you will have to forcefully defend yourself from those who would do you harm.
On the other hand, the option of diplomacy and forgiveness should always be kept open; even if the other party is not willing to take it, you yourself should always be willing to offer it. Violence, and violent self-defense, should not be the main or most common solution to problems and confrontations. An eye for an eye does very much make the world blind -- history is filled with stories of feuds and bloodshed that left dozens of people dead, or that degenerated into outright wars, because people responded with violence first and were not willing to forgive or to forget.
It's easy to talk about using emphatic, decisive solutions to one's problems and not giving the "bad guys" latitude until you're living in a warzone, is the point I'm getting at.
To use a comparison, using violent means to resolve one's problems should be like, say, dealing with vermin infestations by burning down infested houses -- there are inevitably going to be situations where that's the only viable option, but it really shouldn't be the preferred option. Likewise, even if done out of necessity, there's a point past which repeated use of this means that there is a serious underlying problem that further use of violence/arson will not solve and will likely just make worse.
On another matter, I can't say I cared for Midnight's little stint in victim-blaming here. It's one thing to try to help a victim of violence or abuse find ways to protect themselves in the future, but it's entirely another to outright put the blame on them for what happened. If you're talking with a victim of bullying -- or of assault, or of robbery, or for that matter of rape -- blaming them for not having stopped their attackers is not. The. Right. Option. Imagine how it would sound if, in real life, a teacher responded to a kid being bullied with harsh words, sarcasm and saying that they should have defended themselves. Midnight needs to learn a lot about interacting with other people, and especially with victims.
Also, another niggle. Given that Midnight and Starlight were apparently watching the confrontation for long enough to see the bulk of it, didn't it occur to either of them to just... step in and stop it?
9199201
While I do agree that self defense is a real thing, Midnight had used that excuse to go and try to kill Chrysalis as well, did you see her face when she was overpowering Chrissy? She had the look of a killer, she wanted to end Chrsyalis as well. And THAT is where she falls flat, it’s called self defense, not self justice for killing another. What Midnight is failing to realize is that Violence is never the end, after we nuked Japan, what did we do? Sent them economic aid, and helped them become the manufacturing and technological powerhouse it is today. You tell them what they are doing is wrong, show them the right way and then if they refuse your diplomatic efforts You beat them, show them that you are not a weakling, then offer the hand of Friendship and show them how to improve and change themselves for the better. It’s actually something that a lot of people now don’t get, and I love how it’s portrayed here in this chapter, Both sides are wrong, just like how it is in real life. As the title suggests however, It’s all a difference of opinion.
I kind of agree with Midnight. I think the girl would have been within her rights to punch the bullies, at least, after they stole her ice-cream and became thieves. Frankly, she'd have been doing them a favor: If they don't learn, as kids, that people tend to react when you steal form them, they might just get shot as adults after they break into someone's house.
9199106
And some people are just plain lunatics; Ted Bundy didn't fuck corpses because he didn't know the magic of friendship.
9199121
Whatever they did Or not ( and I know who you are referring too) Everyone deserves a second chance, wether it be through a FAIR trial (looking at you Nuremberg) or what the prison system is supposed to be, to punish people for doing wrong and rehabilitate people back into scoiety (shame it’s not doing that) Everyone deserves something of a chance to reconcile. However I do see your side of the argument, like the title says, it’s all a difference of opinion.
just
Specially when the other part is right. Kinda hard to appeal to pacifism when the one you're taking to had to fight against someone that wanted their death, pure and simple
9199258 Agreed. Violence should not be the first resort, but it should always be an option. 'Violence never solves anything' is the most untrue statement ever. Ask the passenger pigeon, or the inhabitants of Carthage.
In this case, negotiation had failed. It was quite clear that the three bullies were unwilling to listen, so if she was going to lose the ice cream anyway, she should have used her telekinesis to stick it in the face of the lead bully, and use the distraction to withdraw. If they didn't cut their losses and pursued, use telekinesis to trip them or throw onbtacles in their path. If forced into a confrontation, use whatever level of force needed to disable them.
9199354
yeah Nuremberg was pretty one sided. gotta admit that.
"A Christmas Story" says it best. Sometimes you just have to stand up to bullies. Of course in this age of "zero tolerance" where both get punished it is a no win situation for some kids. Usually the kids bullying don't really care about school and don't care if they get suspended or expelled. Those picked on do. Sometimes you talk to your parents and they say, "I don't care. I'll back you up. Just make sure you hurt him enough where he knows it's not worth it and will go onto lesser prey, because this has gone on long enough and we didn't get any results talking to the teacher or the principle." Then you might not gain a friend, but you might get grudging respect and left alone. Which is what you want anyhow.
I'm kinda on Midnight's side here. While kindness and friendship should always be the default option, there are some foes who cannot be reasoned with. Violence doesn't solve everything, but it also doesn't solve nothing.
Just take the Vash the Stampede route. Defeat them but don't kill them.
9199755
In other words, hope for the best and prepare for the worst.
It needs to be something between Midnight and Starlight: the former is doing the worst, but the latter isn't preparing at all.
9200026
OH FOR PETE'S SAKE! HERE WE ARE AGAIN!
I must admit, I do question this one a bit because the Mane 6 have not shied away from violence when it was their only option. While it's true that a peaceable solution is always preferable (and Midnight is not giving good advice here) the opposite extreme that violence is, at best, merely a necessary evil doesn't really gel with how the gang handled the changeling invasion or Tirek or various lesser threats like the tatzelwurm. I think their perspective would be more akin to the proper archetype of the warrior - the creative destroyer who uses violence when necessary and to uphold and defend life and freedom, but who is magnanimous and merciful in victory. In this way the use of violence can actually be morally laudatory; after all, conflict is an inevitable part of the human condition, so we must learn to live with it. Silver Quill had a great commentary on this.
With that said, I do enjoy that Midnight appears to be grasping at rudimentary concepts of justice and did seem to be trying to help the filly. And, though she obviously fails to understand certain moral matters properly, she actually did have the moral leg up on Starlight on a number of points. This makes her an interesting character, as she challenges the heroes to be better than they are while also undergoing genuine growth herself. So that was quite compelling.
Keep up the good work!
9200129
Oh Celestia, your comment is too precious.
And we meet again, though this time you seem to have made the first move. We seem to have very similar tastes. In fact, I dare say you would know a lot of the stories in my library. (Beware, you'll find your own stories there. Sweet Celestia that rhymed.)
...
You know what? Let's just compare our most memorable stories. Stardust, perhaps? Or maybe the Arrow 18 Mission Logs? There's also A Voyage's End. I just listed some of the most memorable ones I've read so far, and they're all sci-fi, it seems. Ah, there's Spectrum: that's a very interesting Conversion Bureau story. And for emotional ones... let's see, In Memory Of, now that just ripped me to pieces. The most memorable dark fic for me was The Immortal Game. Any of these familiar? I'll throw in one last story: A Great Endeavor.
Anyway, I think that this amount of coincidental meetings has reached Inside Joke levels. What do you think?
Oh! I've just thought of a good song!
P.S. Have a follow. At this point, that won't change anything.
9200150
My oh my that is a large library. Believe it or not, I only recognized a couple of the stories (granted, I only skimmed the top ones), which just makes out continual meetings even odder.
"P.S. Have a follow. At this point, that won't change anything." No, it really won't.
Midnight has a very pessimistic point of view but in some situations it is closer to realistic than Starlight's optimistic approach. So I'd side with Midnight's overall lesson but disagree with her rather blunt way of teaching the lesson.
Obviously though, Midnight has a underlying desire to have had a normal life including fillyhood. Thus she stares longingly at children at play imagining herself being one of them. Likely she sees it both from an angry/bitter light but also a wishful/hopeful way.
I have to agree with Midnight here. What she said also shows why stop bullying programs will never work; because kids will never be allowed to defend themselves.
My general policy for violence is twofold. Rule 1: Never throw the first punch, because then you're the bad guy even if the other guy threatened to burn down your house, rape your dog, and eat your Cheetos. Rule 2: Never throw the third punch, because the second should have already knocked the other guy out.
Well, to be fair, mean spirited bullying and a violent attack are slightly different magnitudes of offense here.
That aside
just
pulling a trick
I disagree with Midnight in this case, mostly because unless that filly happens to be the next Starlight or Twilight, trying to fight 3 on 1 would have just gotten her beaten up.
Great chapter.
Yet I must agree with Midnight. I do not believe that violence is a solution, but if someone threatens you and does not want to listen to reason, I honestly do not think that defending yourself is wrong. Also if Starlight and Midnight noticed the bullies acting mean with that filly, why did they not help the little one in the first place instead of letting the bullies get away?
9200580 Where was the first one?
She has a point. When I was being bullied in high school I defended my self. I got suspended for a day, but the bully got expelled. Self-defense is okay and even encouraged as long as you know when to stop ie. not continuously beating on them.
Exactly. Not everyone will show compassion in return. There will be times where you need to, sadly, take a more violent approach. It all comes down to the situation in the end and best to hold off on defending yourself in any violent manner, but you need to know when to act.
Also for that one person who is downvoting all comments like this one actually reply why you disagree or I'll just see that downvote as invalid.
9200373
well said
My mom always told me. "You are NEVER to start a fight, but if someone starts one with you. Finish it"
there was a single dislike on all the people who agreed with midnight???
9201176
Nah it looks like they got tired of disliking Midnight's supporters
9200827
very first paragraph, just use ctrl+f to search for it
9199253
Very well said, my friend, very well said.
9200138
I love Silver Quill!
This chapter brings memories back. The counselor at my middle school who specialized in autism told the students she worked with to "make friends with the bullies". I was 12 and I wanted to deck that stupid woman in the face so hard, and honestly, I still do 10 years later. Violence isn't something you should stoop to, but simply talking and making friends is NOT how you solve problems. That's why I enjoy episodes like To Change A Changeling, where instead of the usual "yay pacifism", the show decides to have nuance and admit that violence has a place in society.
I'm Midnight (though I disagree with her ultimate decision that the filly should get in a fight). And Starlight is wrong: Midnight doesn't NEED fixing. The show's core philosophies need fixing.
9201376 Thanks
9199239
„Burning down the house” ie.: destroying the ice cream should have been her response.
Alright, now this is too much. I'm not knocking the idea here, but I personally can not get interested in a story that is so willing to ignore the blatant selfishness and evil a villainous character like Mean Twilight has just to provide another foil to Twilight Sparkle, she would not care enough to help a little filly like that, she would've just brushed it off like she did with Fluttershy. In short, I don't regret reading this, but I'm out
9200666
then it's there failure for not intervening. Hell talk with them later. HOW ABOUT NOW AND TAKE BACK THE CONE.
9199239
sometimes to get them to talk they need to be beaten down.
Teddy Roosvelt was correct in one major thing. Speak Softly and carry a big stick.
Now these 3 ponies thought it was cool to pick on one. Show them why that is a bad idea.
To quote ironically Kane. "Actions speak louder then words."
9205218 Yeah, that was definitely a failure of the adults, they just stood there and watched it happen, when it was clear they could tell ahead of time those three colts were planning to shake down the filly for her ice cream.
One particular mistake I think people have made historically concerning bullies, is not recognizing a troll from a bully.
When it comes to trolls, not rising to the bait and ignoring them get them to move on.
Meanwhile, a bully takes lack of attention as a challenge to increase the pressure.
Both want attention in some form, but the Troll's motivations and willingness to cause trouble is completely different from a bully. While both a troll and a bully cause problems for others and appear similar when they're being low key, the Troll is more out for minor amusement against a mentally or emotionally 'soft' target, where as a bully is more about exercising power against a physically weak opponent.
In this manner, the troll is easier to deal with if you can, as the saying goes, 'not feed the troll'. They don't mind stopping and will be your friend before too long.
The bully requires more direct intervention from authority or some other source of strength. The bully is usually lashing out due to some power imbalance in their life, trying to exercise control of the environment, or just trying to be The Alpha. Ignoring them makes them increase the force they use, and trying to be nice just irritates them because the psychology they have sees being pitied as a weakness on their part. Before you can address their vulnerabilities, their hostility has to be neutralized. That's why 'befriending' the bullies doesn't work, and why kicking the shit out of them does. Power and respect must be established before diplomacy. In this manner the 'Nanoha' approach of befriending works better on bullies than the Twilight variant.
But if it turns out you are incapable of hitting them with a Starlight Breaker, then your option is to get an authority figure to do something. But that also requires that the authority figure take extended action beyond the single incident. Simple intervention doesn't really break the bully-victim dynamic.
I hate when i see dumbasses saying ¨violence is never the answer¨, even in a story.
Had she punched them all into the ground, they'd learn their lesson and woudn't try again, and she would have kept her cone.
Instead you have stupid people telling children to never use violence, which result in them being at the mercy of the bullies and never learning to defend themselves AND never solving any problem because good luck talking an asshole into stopping being an asshole.
Punch to the face > ¨omg thats bad stop pls!¨
Both are wrong here, with Midnight thinking violence should be a primary resort, and Starlight thinking it should never be. What it SHOULD be is the last resort, which still implies it is one. Because sometimes, violence is the ONLY way to solve the issue.
My only complaint about this chapter is that it is a little contrived for plot convenience. I mean starlight and twilight used violence before like with twirek so they understand not everyone want to be there friend. So I think the argument should have been about the fact the midnight went straight to violence instead looking at other options.