• Member Since 24th Feb, 2012
  • offline last seen Apr 11th, 2019

CardsLafter


Butts Butts BUTTS!

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"Celestia may deny it, but Nightmare Moon is Luna. She must accept the hard truth, warts and all."

Celestia does not want her sister to harbor a monster deep inside but her desires do not make it so. We all have our demons, our issues, our closets crawling with skeletons. We all have our warts, our scars, our problems and yet, there are those that love us anyway...

Or rather, they should.

Chapters (1)
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Comments ( 75 )

HAH! WATCH THIS GUYS, I'LL STEAL MY VERY OWN FIRST COMMENT!

In all seriousness...

A bit of an experiment on my part. I saw the potential for some darker drama and failed to find anyone truly capitalizing on the tension between Celestia and Luna. It's definitely not my style, and way out of my comfort zone, but I hope that the audience finds it just as enjoyable. Even if it is in a different way.

Also, sorry, but I'm not apologizing for Chrysalis being behind the times. :3 If you watched the show, you know why.

Very nice, sir. Dark, moving, and wonderful.

Das gud. Das very gud. At first I :applecry: :fluttercry:.
But then I :raritycry: :raritydespair:.
And then I :pinkiesmile:.
Lots of emotion packed into this. I had to take my time reading, or I would have hurt myself with the amount of feels rocketing around.

Here we go

994523 this in the nutshell! Good work Cards!

NO. THE FIRST COMMENT HAS BEEN LOST.

Oh well, now I got something to do for tonight! :heart:

I shall attempt to read this when I can. Until then.....uhhhhhhhh, idon'tknow.

993941

That isn't that big of a feat, bro. :eeyup:

I love the way you depict Luna in all of your fics.

Is this set in the TTEoAP universe? (I haven't read it yet)

1001796

No, it's an unrelated oneshot.

Despite the seriousness of the story, the cause of Chrysalis' downfall that is Luna being antisocial made me laugh.

ive NEVER liked the whole Nightmare moon is posessed! Luna thing. I have always preferred to view nightmare moon as being mostly Luna. Im willing to accept that there was some dark magic that helped transform Luna but i like to think the magic was the thing that tipped the scales so to say, as opposed to a wholesale hijacking of Luna , where her body was completely under teh control fo some foreign entity, "invasion of the body snatchers" style.

as someone who is on the verge of writing his own pony fic a ponyfic that will be Luna-centric,( Luna being best pony ) i just prefer Luna = Nightmare moon much more than " mightmare moon is a foreign entity who controls Luna via remote control". There is so much more there to explore if Nightmare moon is 95 % Luna and 5% corruption, so much more depth to Luna's character.

I like to think that Luna Eclipsed really hints at my preferred position. Apart from showing that Luna can switch from " normal" to "nightmare moon" and back at will (!) it also showed that Luna's basic personality is identical to Nightmare Moon;s ( minus the evil intent) i mean they both love making grandiose pronouncements and throwing lightning around...

YYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEÈÉÊËĒEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

furthermore ( though i am aware this is not canonical) I like to think that Nightmare Moon's appearance is in essence, Luna's " battle " form. That is back when Equestria was less peaceful Luna and Celestia had to fight more ( against Discord, whatever was in Tartarus etc) thus they had an armored " battle" form.

Nightmare Moon's appearance is actually Luna's battle form. We don't know Celestia's, but had she used it at the wedding i bet Chrysalis would NOT have been able to wipe the floor with her. Of course transforming into an armored and enraged version of the flippin' Sun would probably have blinded a whole bunch of wedding guests so...

1001899
Gotta agree with this chap here, the decision to not have Luna possessed by a cloud of cliche evil was the way to go.

Once again, well done on the story Lafter! It was truly worth the weight.:rainbowkiss:

1002006

even if said cloud of posessed evil * is* a lot of fun in Lafter's main fic....


but overall yeah, I think there is a reason that Luna snapped that is intrinsic to her personality experiences life history etc. In other words there is a reason it was *Luna* and not Celestia, who went crazy and its not because a tacky little cloud of evil got to her first.

; 3; why the sadness feels

Everything is more dramatic when it's raining! :rainbowlaugh:

1002020
So Nightmare Moon is the result of emotionally going super saiyan.
New headcannon acquired!

Looks good. I'm to tired to read it now, being past midnight, but that's what mornings are for.
If this is as good as any of CardsLafter's other things it just HAS to be good.

one last piece of evidence i think that points towards " Luna and Nightmare Moon are mostly the same pony" is Luna's reaction upon waking in the castle of the two sisters after getting zapped by the elements.. She doesnt pull the " where am i what happened" card. Instead her eyes turn into little pinpricks of terror, she audibly gasps and tries to make herself as small as possible while looking around in a panic . She esentially acts like someone who just got pwned, realizes she is now a POW and is wondering if she will get beheaded right here right now or in a little while somwhere else. What i am getting at is that she acts like somepony with a guilty conscience, not like somepony coming out of a trance.

Excellent work, Mr. Cards. Most excellent indeed. :moustache::moustache::moustache::moustache::moustache:

To put it in other terms Luna has killed. Actually Celestia probably has as well, forced to kill in some desperate battle. So let me be clearer Luna has murdered.
Now Luna has served her time.. she was imprisoned for a thousand years! indeed that is Prima faciae evidence that she has murdered, given Equestrian norms and Celestias personality you probably have to obliterate a small town and all its inhabitants in order to get sentenced to a milennia in solitary confinement..

Now i don't mean that Luna is evil, i think that if you weighed everything out she still comes out on the side of good overall. Im about to write a fanfic wit Luna as the hero, in the full sense of that word. That is she will be both the protagonist and very much a force for good. Im a huge Luna fanboy, she is my favorite characther.. indeed her moral complexity is what makes her so interesting to me. Realize that this is where i am coming from when i say that the main difference between Luna and Celestia is that Luna has a body count!
But we can all agree that Luna is most elegant and prettiest pony yes?
fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2012/209/d/f/luna_in_a_hoodie_by_pirill_poveniy-d58xvpb.png

993941

A lot of writers are using "First Comment" as their authors notes so as not to muddle up their chapter or description with them.

Well I rad it, now to go and talk to you about it. I have some interesting things to say.

1002169

Also it's Word of God that Nightmare Moon is Luna + Dark Power.
The Transformation may not have been 100% Luna but her Motivations were.
Like, imagine Twilight during Lesson Zero, but no friends, no Spike.
Instead of Want It Need It to create a friendship problem, we have "not setting the moon" to see if she can get ponies to love her night.
Then we have a similar episode as the Nightmare Night tantrum when she is met with fear and misunderstanding.
Then Celestia is NOT amused.
Now have the emotional and psychological wreck that is the result of this episode, and infuse them with 120% Darkside of the Force.
She's basically Anakin/Vader, but much, much more powerful.


"She's basically Anakin/Vader, but much, much more powerful."1002342

or Dr Jekyll/Mr Hyde which is how i have always thought of it.

The word of god was kind of vague in that there was " some other outside magic" involved. You have to remember Hasbro originally disliked Luna's character, for the very same reasons i find her so compelling. So the word of god was woerded in way that might appease the corporate masters .

There is sort of a dichotomy here.

I think the question comes down to this:

Did the Dark magic use Luna as its vessel or tool demonic posession style? OR did Luna ( at least originally ) use the dark magic as a tool for her own purposes?

I think both you and i prefer the latter scenario.

1002386

Definitely. Which is why it's WoG and not Canon.
As far as Luna's power, I enjoy it for fics, bit canonically I will never believe that Luna was "Possessed".
Of course, we do not know where she gained this power. There could have been an outside influence, but definitely not an internal one.
And I don't find the Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde comparison entirely apt.
Jekyll was a repressed man who's inhibitions and moral compass were destroyed by his potion.
If Luna's eternal night gambit was something she came to after getting transformed, that would be more comparable, but I prefer to believe she took on the mantle of Nightmare to achieve her goals. Doesn't make much sense otherwise.
Anakin was seeking an altruistic goal, but through a combination of corrupting influence and desperation, fell into believing the ends justified the means. And once he gave in it was a quick slide down a slippery slope to just being pure evil. Once he had embraced the Dark Side he was too blinded by negative emotions and power to see anything rationally anymore.

well i used Dr Jekyll and Mr hyde because Jekyll too began using the potion to achieve a goal. The way i see it, whatever outside magic Luna got was something she sought out out in order to achieve her goals. she may have lost control of it eventually, but the main driving factors that lead to nightmare moon;s creation where things intrinsic to Luna i.e the envy and jealousy that she felt towards Celestia's greater popularity.

but whether or not her story resembles Dr Jekyll's or Anakin Skywalkers the most is to me too fine a point. The thing here is that Nightmare moon is not some outside possession of Luna in which she was in the wrong place at the wrong time and got taken over and turned into someone elses puppet. Instead Nightmare Moon was a tool created by Luna to achieve Luna's goals. Yes Luna may have used outside magics she did not fully understand or have control over and yes Luna may have lost complete control of Nightmare Moon, but Nightmare moon was a tool of Luna's , never a separate form or entity with desires of her own.

On a different not i do not think that at present Luna is evil or harbors secret evil intentions. I think by the time she shows up, after a thousand lonely years on the moon, she subconsciously * wants* to be defeated.
My evidence? the elements are alive. Luna, in her nightmare moon form, had ,in my mind, killed a few ponies by the time Celestia locked her away.( remember that Luna is , canonically, the most feared pony in Equestria. Ridiculous stories about cannibalism aside, there has to be a nicely horrific kernel of truth at the core of that reputation) By the time Twilight and co. faced her Luna knew damn well how to kill a pony. Had she really wanted to Kill Twilight and Co she would have and they would have stayed dead. I also think that Luna's remorse is 100% genuine.

1002092

Just being honest here. :ajsmug:

1001796
Nope. Completely unrelated. For one thing, TtEoAP Luna doesn't have the awesome hair or ROYAL CANTERLOT VOICE from Season 2.

And when you see why, bricks will be crapped.

993941

From the decription it looks like you're dismissing the notion of duality of the soul, might give this a read later.

That's our Cards!

It'd be simple to just comment "What they said" about the quality of the story here, however, more thoughtful insight is deserved. This is probably going to sound weird, but I couldn't tell that you wrote this. I mean, I KNOW you did, but what I mean is the general tone and the captivation. The flow was quite superb and didn't release my attention throughout.

Heh, 'bout as insightful as a fence post. Anyway, fantastic job, good sir.

KFJ

Oh man there's like not a lot of errors in this fic and it's so ballin' bro.


EDIT:

I mean seriously bro, what do you feed your proofreaders? Do they get paid? I always thought they should get paid bro.

1002974

That's what happens when you get this cool guy named KFJ to proofread it! He's so dreamy~! :heart:

1002974 I second that notion.

Edit: Since the difference between the flashbacks and the present are less well defined here, perhaps consider using line breaks?

I will never tire of Luna Stories very well written.

Well, it's definitely a departure from your usual style. To be honest I thought it was a bit melodramatic, but that might just be me...
In any case, I have a soft spot this kind of fic, so I enjoyed it regardless.

Keep doin' what you're doin'!
:pinkiehappy:

I liked the Story but again, im not a fan of the whole "Cadence being muzzled and bound" part. Its again nothing personal, just a pet peeve I REALLY cant overcome XD...If you ever get the chance in a future fic or in TTEoAP, could a male role atleast be captured once? :3 Like Stormwing...tho it'd take ALOT to take him down really. Its just a freindly suggestion.. but if you decide to use it.. there may be rewards in the future ;D *bribe bribe*...lol i'm terrible.. no i wont bribe you...but it would make me happy for some strange reason :3
Sorry for the randomness XD'

Life is beautiful. Everything is beautiful. This is beautiful and I love it. And I love you.

Wow. This was... Wow.

First of all, points for having the thing that feeds on love not dismiss the power thereof out of hoof.
Secondly, very cool design for Hate!Cadance.
Thirdly, I love the logical extension of the psychosensitive weather seen in "Luna Eclipse" you used here.
Fourthly, fantastic characterization all around.

My only complaint is that surely Twilight would've noticed the falling out at some point and tried to intercede. Or maybe not, but she would at least have sent a letter. I can't help but feel some acknowledgement of the faithful student's attempts to patch the rift between siblings (or at least check on her foalsitter) was needed here. Yes, the story was primarily about princesses, but still.

Lafter, if you read this, you know that it's from Dax.

That also probably means that you know it will be another critical review.

*Note that this review contains spoilers.*

My opinion on this story varies depending on the aspect I'm reviewing. The writing style is great, the pacing is well done, and you manage to express something that is pivotal in every living human's (and I suppose ponies, now, too) life. People always experience the feeling when a sibling or other loved one is in a negative light with the individual, and most readers will be able to relate to the feeling of helplessness that Celestia exhibits.

The thing I don't like, however, is how disconnected this story feels from the actual show's character development. I realize that this is a deviation from the canon, and would respect that if I actually believed the emotions I was reading. I know that Celestia is depressed and feels hopeless. I know that Luna is frustrated and angry. What I don't get is the "why" factor. It feels like I'm being told these things, but not given information beyond the face value. As a person who demands to know how and why everything works (you should see how much physics teachers dread me), this story seemed to fall flat in that regard. I know that Celestia is initially upset by Luna's actions towards Chrysalis, but I don't really feel like that is truly shown. It's almost as if that was a side note, and that the true cause for her pain is mysterious. The way that her emotions are conveyed don't seem to reflect her reasons.

What I'm trying to say is that the Cause and Effect factors don't seem to match up. The characters seem to react on a violently strong level for reasons which I am seeing as mediocre.

The second reason that I was left nonplussed by this story was the conclusion. The entire story foreshadowed a catastrophic emotional interaction between Luna and Celestia. This did happen, but the sudden change of "Nightmare Moon" back to Luna felt forced, as if at the end you got bored and decided to just finish it off. The pacing of the story became much quicker towards the end, and felt out of sync with the rest of the story. It's a mistake I've seen people put into print, and end up wasting money on publication only to find out they should have spent more time on the conclusion of their story.

On a minor note, I'm fairly certain that the name is spelled "Cadance," and not "Cadence."

With all said and done, I still think this story was a solid 8/10. To improve, I would have recommended extending the conclusion slightly, and re-conveying Luna's actions to be more drawn out, since it seems her sudden de-Nightmare was too sudden. Also, I would like to see more as to why Celestia is fearful that Luna would become Nightmare Moon again, because the one memory didn't seem like enough of a reason. Perhaps other small signs of aggression could be pointed out?

To end, I'll say that I liked the story and what it represented, but it felt like it was too compressed. That's what this whole review is trying to say: the story is great, the elements are great, but you are tackling something that (I believe) can't be handled in the amount of words you did it in. It's just to short.

1004838

I understand your viewpoints on the matter. Especially since my roommate is just as analytical about his reading. :applejackunsure:

Now, this may sound a little callous, but I want you to keep an open mind as I try to explain and understand that I am not trying to be belittling in the least. :pinkiesad2:

What you're asking is for me to assume that the reader needs everything spoonfed to them. What I mean by that is... Well, let's be honest, this fic was wordy. Really wordy. Like, so wordy that most of my following readers aren't going to bother with it. And your suggestion desires more words to further slow down the flow. :trixieshiftleft:

What I instead decided to do was let the readers draw their own conclusions. Let's be honest, we can guess why Celestia dreads Luna becoming Nightmare Moon again. And I don't think it's a stretch at all that Luna would be frustrated and helplessly hurt at Celestia dragging that past out every now and then. It takes a bit of visualization to get there, sure, but letting the readers feel it out for themselves allows me to keep a steady pace without having to line out every last little detail. Which, I admit, is unfair to some of the more analytical viewers but when you write... Hell, especially when it comes to writing... You just CANNOT please everyone. :twilightoops:

As for the change back and forth between Nightmare Moon, I think I summed it up best when I explained it to another fair critic who brought that up... In this particular continuity... Think of Nightmare Moon as less of a duality to Luna and more of a state of mind for Luna. Call it her temper, if you would. Sometimes you lose control and do something impulsive. Sometimes it boils over a bit and you just decide to go for broke, dumping it out because you're tired of holding it in. Either way, you've practically become a different person and it's all because something or someone helped put that need to seethe inside of you to begin with. Luna just has a physical representation of it that most ponies know by a different name. :pinkiesmile:

I know this won't make you like or dislike this anymore than you already do, but like you said, understanding does help. :rainbowdetermined2:

And not to be all elitist, but it's HASBRO'S BLOODY FAULT FOR GETTING IT WRONG! :twilightangry2::twilightangry2: The Italian translation for Mi Amore Cadenza is My Love Cadence! They even used 'Cadence' early on as the name and then switched it to Candance when the episode aired! YYYRRRGGLFFLLBBBEEREGGH! :flutterrage::flutterrage::flutterrage:

1004937

I did think that you might have been trying to make readers draw their own conclusions about certain things (drawing own conclusions is one of my favorite factors of a lot of my favorite stories).

The narrative just felt slightly... off. I don't know if what I said before can encompass what I was trying to say, but based on your response I don't think it did. I understand that making it seem "spoon-fed" would be insulting to the intelligence of the reader, but at the same time it also felt like there was just too much speculation (even this sentence doesn't really cover what I'm trying to get across).

What I think truly threw me off was the difference in what the show sets up for a character, and what you wrote. For some reason, I just can't imagine the character of Celestia and the character of Luna acting in this exact manner. Yes, it was great, and I loved the story and content, but it didn't feel like I was reading about Celestia and Luna, it felt like two other characters.

Also, I would like to say that I appreciate the idea that Luna is Nightmare Moon, which is what I initially thought of as "headcanon."

Also, by more words, I didn't mean to slow down the flow. I really meant that it just seemed as if it was too short. I appreciate one-shots, but this story just seems like it's begging to be longer and bigger. That's just my opinion, which is based on similar stories I've read, of course. The pacing was fine, though.

Finally, I think that the "readers feeling it out for themselves" isn't really the best idea. Sure, I personally prefer a story that actually makes me think, but if a different reader ever has to stop and reconcile what they just read, or to reread a paragraph, then there is usually something wrong. In the words of Stan Lee (yes, I know he does comics and not written stories, but it's still viable) "Anything that seems a little bit odd yanks the reader away from the story and back to the real world."

That's what I thought was what made this an 8/10 instead of a 10/10. Personally, I loved it, but I felt that another reader might call these things out. Another reader, who doesn't want to draw their own conclusions, might be yanked from the story to try to figure out exactly why Luna was to aggressive to Chrysalis. They might need to figure out how Luna could change back and forth (aesthetically) between "normal" and "nightmare."

I realize that my criticisms might have sounded aggressive, but in reality I was only trying to point out what others might not like. Rethinking it now, I realize that this wasn't too apparent.

"the shorter Pegasus found it necessary to take a healthier pace to keep up with her.

“Will be notified, Meadow Wheat. Thank you for reminding me.”"

I know you recommend the Gdocs version, but fimfiction's missing a line here.

I'm going to keep this short, I loved every syllable of it.

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