The Astral Plane is a place of cosmic peace and serenity, a realm of gentle mists and alien but not unfriendly stars. Mortals who access it do so only after reaching a pinnacle of spiritual development and enlightenment, where those who have reached the peak before them may ease their transition to a higher state of existence.
However, immortals have an easier time of things, which can lead to rather less enlightened conversations.
Spoilers for S8E13, "The Mean 6." Rated Teen for discussion of realities that are rated Mature.
Chapters (1)
This got a couple of chuckles out of me.
Also, the alternative interpretation of the Tree of Harmony's origin introduces some fun fridge logic: you think Discord made a point of making such a huge entrance to the place in the Guy's Night episode because he knew?
This was cutely amusing. Though given she just watched the tree wither six beings into lifeless chunks of wood in seconds, I doubt Chryssi actually did anything to the tree beyond hurl a few insults and maybe make a egomaniacal speech about what she'd do in the future, then got the buck out of there.
I imagine Aunt Stumpy having a personality almost exactly like Slappy Squirrel.
Just putting that out there.
8986710 Now you've got me thinking it.
8986710 8986723
Stumpy smirked at her niece. "You remind me of a very young Castle Greyskull."
Ok, this was pretty great.
8986745
"The crankiest immortal in the astral plane, our next world line features Stumpy Romaine!"
"AAAHHHEEENUFF WIT' DA SINGIN' ALREADY!"
"THAT'S STUMPYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!"
And the Tree is not just a Furry, it's one of those furries.
Buck it. I'm blowin' up the canon Equestria now.
8986670 And by the same token, Chrysalis suddenly has the power to form completely matured evil inverse duplicates of any pony she wants.
...
If she could have done that this whole time then why didn't during the Wedding... oh buck it all. The show's continuity is a raging multi-state dumpster fire now.
That. Was. Awesome! I never get tired of your interpretations of the Tree and Junior. Did not expect Discord, but what a punchline!
8986890
It could very well be something new Chrysalis learned. You don't see most ponies in the show or in other fanfictions automatically knowing everything, do you?
8986890
Riiiight.
Why would she? she had a whole army of changelings at the time, who were actually loyal and obedient versus rebellious and just waiting to either backstab her, or needing to be grubsat to get things done. Besides, what would doing so have gotten her?
8986890
And apparently at no cost. She could create entire armies of clones to take over the world, so why does she need the Elements?
8986745
I ever heard it in Slappy’s voice.
Have I unleashed something? I really hope not, I’m not big on this responsibility thing.
So Castle-chan's been watching The Beanis Channel, eh?
Poor clones. The deaths no one care about.
8986951 If that's true, WHY DIDN'T SHE USE IT BEFORE?
We can ask the same of the anti-magic stone throne. Where did it come from? How long had she possessed it?
Both of these things would have aided her IMMENSELY in the invasion, and she'd have had to be utterly retarded not to realize it. Had she used the anti-magic stone AND used her clone-production magic to duplicate ALL THREE ALICORNS... there's no way in hell she could have lost.
She's being handed plot-convenient items per episode without any explanation. This creates new plot holes every single time because we're given NO RELEVANT INFORMATION regarding the time-line of how or when she acquired them.
8986986 She apparently didn't know the clones would rebel. Because she made these 6 and was surprised that they wouldn't obey.
There is no plausible reason she didn't use this to create clones of all 3 alicorns, which would clearly have given her immensely-powerful allies as far as she would have known at the time.
Combined with the anti-magic throne which has as effect so powerful ALL OTHER MAGIC INCLUDING DISCORD'S is instantly nullified within its zone of affect, she'd have been absolutely unstoppable.
So either she got both these things later, and the show never bothered to explain, or she is the dumbest villain in the history of fiction. Either way, bad writing.
8987004 Exactly. Combined with that anti-magic throne (which I'm absolutely certain was nothing more than a plot-convenient McGuffin thrown in without second thought to keep Starlight and Discord from just squashing the bug ponies instantly and ending the episode in 5 minutes) the changelings should have obliterated the ponies.
As much as I dislike villains winning so thoroughly that there is no hope of the protagonists ever rising again, that's what this set-up would lead to in any natural course of events. The changelings have been handed far too many advantages to plausibly lose, other than to show us clearly that they're the dumbest things in Equestria... which then makes them either bad villains or a farce. It's a perfect example of bad use of Power Creep.
8987146
"It could be something she learned recently."
"If that were the case, why hasn't she used it before!?"
Yeah, you're not exactly swaying me with that argument, Alondro. Indeed, the fact that Chrysalis didn't expect the clones to rebel supports the idea that she just learned this spell. (Admittedly, this does raise the question of where and how she learned it, but that's less a plot hole than just unprovided information. The latter is not necessarily the former, or every unknown datum about Equestria would constitute a plot hole.)
8987146
As I said, the cloning could be a spell she just learned. That means after the invasion and after Thorax becomes king
The anti-magic throne? We don't know it's limit. For one, how much of it needs to be there to be effective? I imagine the throne isn't hallow so that's a lot of the stuff. Next, how rare is it? She's obviously found enough to make a throne, but how long did it take to find that much? Next, weight. Some metals weigh way too much to carry on your own. Osmium is a perfect example and we don't know how dense this stone is, how would it be effective to use it in an invasion if no one can carry it? Not to mention the suspicion if Chrysalis herself had to carry it.
As I said before, the clone spell is most likely a new one she learned, after prior events. But if she could use it in the invasion? We have to take a look at its requirements and its capabilities. Are the clones both physically and magically as strong as the originals? Chrysalis would also need a clear picture of all the princesses, which may be hard for Luna and Cadence as I don't imagine they do public appearances often. Also, if another pony is in the same picture? How do we know if they won't render the spell completely inert? Not to mention the possibility of betrayal, which, surprise surprise, the fake Twilight convinces the others to do!
Both the anti-magic throne and especially the cloning spell would appear to have been not worth the effort they'd require for a fast and simple invasion. Finally, the clone spell may also take a constant stream of magic, something that I imagine Chrysalis was trying to conserve to defeat Celestia.
8987166 It goes hand in hand with the anti-magic throne, which is implied she ALWAYS had. She's being given really useful powers and objects, and for some reason didn't use these immense advantages when they would have assured her an absolute victory over an adversary who didn't even know her kind existed at the time.
We NEED these details for proper plot construction. If there had even been any sign that making these clones harmed her in any way, THEN it would have been self-evident why she didn't do it before... just a little glimpse of her looking weakened after bringing them to life... maybe a suggestion she has to grant them a fragment of her own essence/soul for them to come to life. ANYTHING!
As it is, she could have apparently just made a gazillion of these things with zero cost to herself! And they somehow have the magic of the source ponies! My god, aside from the throne, this is a STAGGERING tactical weapon! For it to be plausible, we either had to learn she'd only just discovered the spell (maybe from someone she's conspiring with in Tartarus?) or it cost her heavily to make use of it.
We got nothing. So it's a lazy plot device.
8987167 *nods slooooooowly* Yeahhhhh... see... you're pointing out why the throne was a terrible plot device without apparently realizing it. We have no reasons whatsoever she couldn't have used in during the invasion. We have no information on it at all, other than it was really useful to the Season 6 plot. That's practically the definition of 'contrived'.
8987184
I don't see how I pointed out how it's a terrible plot device. It's rare, valuable, possibly too heavy to lift, and it's stuck to the ground as a throne. I'd like to believe Chrysalis is someone who is too prideful to break her own throne to get an advantage, as she likely expected an easy conquest for her invasion force, which she was correct on. Only problem is she was overconfident, and overconfidence leads to people dismissing advantages as not needed
I love your personifications of the Tree of Harmony and the Castle of Friendship.
8987184
I could think of a reason or two for things.
Anti-magic Throne:
Reason 1 it couldn't be used in the invasion:
It's a big ass heavy stone throne all but bolted to the hive floor. Do YOU want to carry it into Equestria while plotting a surprise invasion?
Reason 2:
Maybe you realize reason 1 and consider breaking it into smaller pieces to say, give to your underlings as amulets of anti-magic. Except, you have no idea if the anti-magic properties will continue to work when you do. Or you may know that they don't if you bust the throne's rock up. (Consider that at the end of the finale, the throne exploded. But the rock it was made of doesn't just vanish from existence.) Best not risk it and have a fallback option to protect the hive from magic threats.
Evil Clone spell:
Reason 1 Chrissy didn't use it before:
Look at ALL those loyal, vicious changelings at her beck and call. Why does she need a couple extra clones again?
Reason 2:
"Ugh... This annoying spell requires me to go around pulling hair. While I like that idea, it sounds too much like work. I'll just keep draining the dumb one and let my ARMY do the work."
Not too hard. Not exactly the best McGuffins around, but I've seen worse.
Hmm. Aunt Stumpy, eh?
Is the School of Friendship another genius loci physically manifested?
8987157
Imagine Kim Jong with a throne with the capability of disabling all non-North Korean electronic devices in a 20 miles radius or more.
8987306 Also reason 3 for the Throne, she's trying to infiltrate the city undetected till all her forces are in position. Nothing says 'covert' and 'not letting them know something is up' like making every unicorn in a predominantly unicorn city suddenly find themselves without magic. Same for replacing everypony in Season 6, how do you stay hidden with something like that?
Namepending. She’s so hot right now.
*Meanwhile in another part of the astral plane if once can hear very closely....*
NOOOOOOOOO! THRONE-EMPEROR! Why Can't you hear me!?! You must kill the Tau before it's too late! They will destroy us all! Send the Ultramarines to save us! THEY ARE OUR ONLY HOPE! THRONE-EMPEROR!!!!! AAARRRRRHHHHHHGGGGG!!!!!!!!
*Laughing of an indecisive mollusk*
8987465
8987184
And to add on top of that, based off, "To Change a Changeling" the big Anti-magic throne was the CAUSE of that area of the Badlands to be so lifeless. With its destruction, plant and animal life has returned. AT BEST, it was preventing the Pegasi from controlling the weather there. MORE LIKELY (given how quick plants sprung up, yet no Earth Pony helped them appear) the earth was completely suppressed of all magic so nothing would grow, despite the soils fertility.
But even if you assume ONLY the first one, if you bring the throne to the Royal Wedding, you have this place moving across Equestria where Pegasi cannot fly, cannot control the weather, and is several hours across (possibly if you go across the Diameter a whole day) moving across Equestria. If we go for the more likely second one, a giant moving sphere of "Pegasi can't fly here, Earth Ponies can't grow here, Unicorn's can't magic here, and Life gets sick here" field moving across Equestria towards Canterlot is the LEAST Subtle thing I can think of.
Moving the throne would be BEYOND not subtle. She may as well have a marching band. And with the city on high alert due to the unexplained warning, that would DEFINITELY be investigated.
Frankly the throne's lack of use in the Wedding Invasion isn't a plot hole. The invasion was supposed to be stealthy, and that throne was anything but. The plot hole in "To Where and Back Again" is actually, "Wait, you have this giant castle in the middle a place where no magic works, and no life grows to hide the structure....and supposedly you have been living in secret and no one knew about you before the Wedding? HOW?!?!"
Whoo! This story is both informative and funny!
Sad or something, when the Tree's death is being discussed.
Stumpy's human form is ???
That ending! So, now she knows. But does Discord know?
And on the Tree's "death", he might help out or something?
I sorta wanna see the Tree interacting with the Castle back when she was a Lockbox?
8988599
Kill all explorers to the badlands, could hide it pretty well?
Maybe don't store all the changelings there, so there's less to discover...
8987167
Erm... Titanium is NOT a perfect example. It's one of the lighter metals. Strong, yes. Heavy, no. Iron is about 7.8 g / cm^3, but Titanium is just over half that.
Now if you had said Tungsten, Lead, or Gold, then yeah.
8988747
Whoops, my mind was on a different fanfics metal when I wrote that, no clue why I wrote titanium .-. Need to edit that real quick to Osmium
8987123
Hard to sympathize when they show no other trait but negative. Granted easier to get them to do evil, but also easier for them to betray you for their own evil wants.
Also, I find odd for someone who complains about there being no villain death mlpfim and there being too much redemption... is complaining about the fate of the clones.
8987166
In my experience, 90% of things people call out as plot holes are not plot holes.
8988747
Actually Gold is super weak. Pretty but you can manipulate pure gold with your bare hands.
And it is mythologically pretty damn magical.
Not sure what I would make the throne out of if I wanted it mobile but if it were to be a fixed structure, probably iron due to the mythological aspect of it.
8988599
Completely agree about moving the throne being foolish. Even if they can and it isn't powered by local ley lines or something, it's an open declaration of war and warning them you're coming rather than seizing power secretly. And if you give them time to see you're coming, and you're a big enough threat, they'll start combining unicorn power to hurl rocks at the throne from a few miles away.
As to how they didn't know about it, it's a small desert with a single 'castle', and you can't do aerial surveys of it. At most, unless someone had a reason to look, they'd just know there was a dead magic desert instead of it being full of changelings. Plus the world is big, and it was out of the borders.
Also definitely agree that the dead magic zone is what blighted the land. Equestrian life needs at least some magic to live.
Cute!
8988599 Because we know that Equestria seems to, until recently, have had very little contact with other nations, or really paid much attention at all to what happened outside it's borders. Also that place is pretty far away, given it was night when they teleported from Ponyville, but day (or at least morning/evening) when they arrived, meaning it's far enough around the planet to cross several time zones.
Pretty interesting!
8988904
Yes, but we were talking about weight, not durability. :D
8986638
Technically speaking, if we treat the Lockbox of Harmony as an unfertilized seed and the keys as pollen, then the Castle has six daddies, two of whom are female. (Eight and three if you include Soarin' and Fleetfoot.) That said, Discord is exactly the sort of person who would eagerly embarrass his daughter at every opportunity.
In other words, he may. He may not. It's Discord; who can really tell for certain?
8986670
I sincerely hope you're right.
8987049
Yes, yes you have. And you should know that I'm using the full name 8986851 came up with.
8987094
"It's stupid. Its Sunset knows it's stupid. Yet I can't look away."
8987123
It is a bit hard to sympathize with people who were kicking your mother not five minutes ago, to say nothing of trying to steal your kind-of sort-of older siblings.
The Tree of Harmony, on the other branch, could feel the constant emotional and psychological pain the clones were in from their incomplete nature and tried to disenchant them as painlessly as possible. (Sure, it looked bad, but Clone Twilight could call the others imbeciles just fine.)
8987224
Thanks! They're a delight to work with. Your and Alex Warlorn's work with the Concepts have been a great help when it comes to trying to capture the mindsets and perspectives of beings who straddle countless timelines.
8987336
No, that's just the Castle's pet rock.
Mind you, there are a fair amount of crystals in the building. The Castle's awfully young to be a mother, but she may just be growing herself. There's no such thing as too much processing power, especially if she's asked to inherit the mantle of capital-S Spirit of Harmony much earlier than she expected.
8987557
Leaving that desirable outcome to the reader's imagination seemed like the best way to go. Not least because it's a lot harder for the show writers to contradict a prediction that doesn't actually predict anything.
8987689
She prefers "Sparkalon," thank you.
8988634
Stumpy's human form is a hunched over septuagenarian who isn't just deceptively strong but is more than willing to beat your head in with her handbag. She also tells the filthiest jokes you can hear in a five-universe radius. Thankfully or unfortunately, depending on who you ask, she doesn't get many conversational partners.
Discord definitely knows more than he lets on and likely knows more than either harmony spirit is comfortable with. The question is what he'll do with that knowledge, and not even he knows the answer to that one.
Most of the interactions between mother and daughter prior to latter's germination consisted mostly of the psychic equivalents of lullabies.
8989424
I betting Pinkie Pie's clone in Manehattan is happy she never got close to that thing.
8989441
Makes sense. And, uh, spoilers ahead... one of the episodes to come apparently features secret passages nobody knew about. Which is highly odd for a regular building, but not one grown from a Magic Harmony Crystal Spirit Avatar.
8989424
Oh, and this post here:
Reminded me an awful lot of this comic:
derpicdn.net/img/view/2015/3/7/844170__suggestive_artist-colon-pikokko_discord_princess+luna_oc_oc-colon-marshall+%28marshmallow%29_oc-colon-riddle_birthing_comic_draconequus_dracone.png
8989424
Well!
...
You’re welcome?
Huh. I guess...