• Published 15th Jun 2018
  • 5,489 Views, 145 Comments

Not Your Errand Boy - Zennistrad



A newly-winged Spike has a frank conversation with Rarity about their relationship.

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Mending Hearts

Spike wasn’t sure how long he’d been crying. He had flown back to the castle without a word, quickly enough that the world below had seemed like only a blur. He hadn’t even bothered entering through the front door, instead heading straight for his bedroom window. It was one small advantage of wings, he supposed; he could easily avoid ponies that would ask prying questions.

Now, as he buried his face into his own pillow, he could only wish for the entire world to disappear. The sting of Rarity’s words still lingered, coursing through his heart like a burning venom. It wasn’t fair. None of it was fair.

A trio of gentle knocks came at the bedroom door. Spike looked up, eyes still sore despite himself. Beyond the door, Twilight’s voice called.

“Spike? Are you in there?”

A heavy breath pushed its way past his lips. “Yeah. What do you want?”

The door came creaking open. Twilight slowly walked in, a deep, sorrowful frown written across her face. “Is everything okay? Are you feeling alright?”

Spike flopped onto his back, ignoring the sudden discomfort of pinning his wings against the mattress. “No. What do you think?”

A gentle push of air swept across the room. With a brief flap of her wings, Twilight flew up, and sat beside Spike atop the bed. Spike sat himself upright, briefly rubbing his irritated eye.

Twilight’s eyes briefly drifted away, before turning her gaze back to Spike. “I heard about what happened,” she said. Her ears flattened against her head as she continued. “Between you and Rarity, I mean.”

Spike’s claws gripped tightly against the sheets, and his heart jumped within his chest. All of a sudden, the air had become impossibly thick.

“Easy there,” said Twilight. A gentle wing wrapped itself around Spike’s shoulder. The warm and downy feathers brought a sense of security, and he could already feel his body relaxing. “Just breathe, okay? Let it all out.”

Spike complied readily. In through his nose, out through his mouth. Just like he’d instructed Twilight to do during her panic attacks. Several more repetitions, and the tension had all but disappeared. “Thanks,” he said, “I needed that.”

Twilight pulled her wing back and looked down at Spike, her eyes twinkling gently in the ambient light. “Do you want to talk about it?”

Spike gave a tiny shrug, one that barely even qualified as moving his shoulders. “Sure, why not. Not like I have anything else to lose.”

“It must be rough, having your heart broken for the first time,” said Twilight. “I don’t know if I can help you as much as Cadance could, but I’m here to listen if you need me. Why don’t you start by telling me what happened?”

Spike hesitated. Even recalling it now left a sore feeling within him. Nevertheless, he continued. “It... happened two days ago, I think. Right after I’d first gotten my wings, Rarity started asking me to do even more things for her than usual, and I got really tired out.”

“And you started to think she was taking advantage of you?”

“Y-yeah,” said Spike. He reached back, idly fidgeting with the spines on the back of his head. “But... the thing is, I don’t really even know if I can blame her for that. At least, not entirely.”

“Not entirely?” Twilight repeated. “What do you mean by that?”

“W-well... I’m your Number One Assistant, right?” said Spike. “I’ve spent my whole life helping you, so Rarity probably never thought anything of me helping her. But she still knew that I had a huge crush on her, and... and the whole time, she’s said nothing about it. Like it wasn’t even worth acknowledging.”

“I guess being an assistant’s different if it’s someone you’re in love with, huh?” said Twilight.

“Yeah,” Spike replied, “I guess it is.” His mind tickled with a sudden curiosity. He’d been so used to offering help for so long, yet now it seemed like it had only brought him pain. “When did I start calling myself your assistant, anyway? It must have been a long time ago.”

“Well, you were very young, so I don’t think you’d remember it,” said Twilight. “I was sorting some of my books one day, when you started tugging on my tail. I told you that if you wanted to play with me, you could climb up on my back and help me reach the upper shelves.” She giggled lightly as she recalled the memory, only vaguely familiar to Spike. “You did such a good job of it that from that day forward, I called you my Number One Assistant. I don’t think I’d ever seen you happier before that day!”

Spike gave a small chuckle. “Yeah, that does sound like it would have been the best way to get your attention back then.”

Twilight raised a single eyebrow. “What do you mean?”

“Uh, nothing,” said Spike. “Just that... well, I’m sure you already know how you were those days. You spent nearly all your time with your nose in a book or practicing a spell. I guess I’d have to help you out with that if I wanted to be noticed, right?”

Twilight’s body went rigid. As she went stiff, Spike looked up to see her pupils shrinking, the very color in her face seeming to wash away.

“Uh, Twilight?” said Spike. “Everything okay with you?”

“Oh my gosh, you’re right.”

Spike reached up and scratched the side of his head. “Right about what?”

“When we were living in Canterlot!” Twilight burst out. “I-I-I was so self-absorbed in all my studies all the time! The only consistent way for you to get my attention must have been to do chores for me!”

“What?” said Spike. “H-hey, Twilight, slow down!”

Twilight pressed a hoof up against her forehead, grasping it with the flat of her frog. “You... you were so young back then! I-I must have taught you that the best way to get affection was to do whatever you were asked! I left you with an unhealthy idea of what it means to care about somepony and I didn’t even realize it!”

“Twilight, stop!” Spike insisted. “Calm down!”

“B-b-but—”

Spike stood up, and placed a claw against Twilight’s shoulder. “Breathing first. Then we’ll talk, okay?”

Twilight nodded, and closed her eyes. Spike felt her body slowly rise with the deep breath that she took, then fall once again as she exhaled. When she opened her eyes again, Spike could already feel the tension in her melting away.

“Better?” said Spike.

“Yeah,” Twilight replied. She turned to look Spike in the eye briefly, then looked away. “I still feel like part of this is my fault, though. You wouldn’t be hurting like this today if I hadn’t left such a huge impression on you as a hatchling.”

Spike shook his head. “Well, no offense, but I think you’re being ridiculous.”

“Really?” said Twilight. “But—”

“But nothing,” Spike replied firmly. “Look, I get where you’re coming from. When I brought up how I got to be your assistant, you were scared that it might have led to what I’m feeling now. And you know, maybe you’re right. Maybe I did get the idea that the best way to earn your approval was to do the stuff you asked.”

“Then how am I being ridiculous?” said Twilight. “If what I was was true, then...”

Spike looked up, and met Twilight in the eye. “Because you were so much more to me than just that,” he said. “And I know that I’ve always been more to you than just your errand boy. Whenever I was sad, you were there for me. And whenever I got scared or upset, you were always the first pony to be by my side. That’s why you’re here right now, isn’t it?”

Twilight paused. Slowly, a smile fall across her face. “Yeah, I guess you’re right. It was pretty silly of me to worry about that, huh?”

Spike returned the smile. “So is this our obligatory hug moment?”

“Looks like it to me!” Twilight said, giggling. “C’mere, you!”

Spike leaned in, and was greeted by the warm hold of Twilight’s forelegs, paired with the softness of her wings. Time slowed to a crawl as they shared their embrace, and when they finally pulled away, all of the lingering soreness in Spike’s body had vanished.

“So what are you going to do about Rarity?” said Twilight.

“I... I dunno,” Spike admitted. “But, you know, looking back on it? I don’t think she saw me as her errand boy either. I mean sure, she did push me around a bit hard sometimes, but... she was always looking out for me in the end. When I went the Dragon Lands, she risked everything going with you to make sure I was okay. Heck, she even did it twice! And there’s all the times she helped me out even when she didn’t need to, or gave me something nice, or just generally wanted to see me happy...”

A heavy sigh forced its way out of his lungs. He’d left Rarity behind before she even had a chance to get a word in edgewise. He couldn’t help but wonder. Had he just thrown it all away?

“It sounds like you want to talk to her again,” said Twilight.

Spike’s throat constricted, swallowing the heavy lump within it. “Yeah. I do.”

“Well, you’re in luck,” said Twilight, beaming. She turned towards the door and called, “Rarity, you can come in now!”

Spike froze. He had hoped, however briefly, that it was just a joke. But soon enough the door opened again, and Rarity came through. Even after everything, her coat and mane were still pristine and radiant, though her face betrayed a deep melancholy. She carefully approached, every motion of her body showing hesitance. She looked away, ears lying flat, before looking back to meet Spike’s eyes.

“I heard everything,” she said. “I... I didn’t want to eavesdrop, of course, but... I just couldn’t bear not knowing if you were alright. Spike... will you ever forgive me?”

The time that passed before he spoke could have been seconds as much as it could have been hours. Thoughts, feelings, and memories swirled like a hurricane within Spike’s mind, and he could only stare as he struggled to make sense of them all. A single tear formed in his eye, and he wiped it away with a claw.

“Oh, Rarity,” he said, “do you even need to ask?”

He jumped down from the bedside, and the entire world fell away as he ran into Rarity’s awaiting forelegs. The two held each other in their mutual embrace, letting their own emotions mingle and wash away. In that moment, Spike had almost forgotten what he’d felt for her, leaving his own pining behind. As they pulled away, he looked into her eyes one more time.

“I’m sorry, Spike,” said Rarity. “It was wrong of me to assume you knew how I really felt about you. I should have simply told you while I had the chance.”

“It’s... it’s fine,” Spike supposed. “You don’t need to apologize, really. I should have told you what I wanted from you to begin with. Maybe it’d have hurt less if I just asked you out, and you said no.” He looked down, twiddling his thumbs. His chest once again felt tight and heavy. Despite everything he’d just went through, his emotions stubbornly refused to be discarded. “We, um... we can still be friends though, right? Even if we’re not going to be... like that.”

“Of course, dear! I would be happy to,” said Rarity. “And if you’re ever uncomfortable with anything I ask of you in the future, don’t hesitate to let me know, alright? The last thing I want to do is see you get hurt.”

“Thanks,” said Spike. His chest relaxed, and he could feel a deep warmth swelling from within it. He looked up, letting Rarity’s bright smile fall across him. “It really does mean a lot to hear that from you, after everything.”

“I’m glad to hear it, dear,” said Rarity. “Now, before I go, there’s one last thing I wanted to give you.” She reached out behind her back with a foreleg, and pulled out an object from somewhere Spike couldn’t see. It was a small, rectangular piece of paper, and before Spike knew it, it was already being placed into his hands.

Spike held out the paper at arm’s length, staring at the odd slip. “What’s this? A check?”

“Why, it’s the money I owe you, of course,” said Rarity. “After all the work you’ve done for me these past two days, it simply wouldn’t be right to let you walk away without being fairly compensated. Isn’t that right?”

“Yeah, I guess,” said Spike. He squinted, straining to make out the amount written in Rarity’s admittedly less-than-perfect hornwriting. “How much is this for, anywa— ONE THOUSAND BITS!?

“You’re welcome!” Rarity replied. She turned away, and eagerly trotted out the door, disappearing into the hall. “I’ll see you later, darling! And do try not to spend that all at once!”

Spike’s body remained frozen in place. His stared at the check held in front of him, his mind struggling to wrap itself around what it was he’d been left with. “One... o-o-one thousand... “

“Well then,” said Twilight, “it looks like today I’ll be showing you how to open your first bank account. How’s that sound?”

It had taken some effort to pick his jaw up the ground, but soon Spike found himself nodding in agreement. Despite everything, perhaps today hadn’t been such a bad day after all.

Author's Note:

Well! This fic became unexpectedly popular, and seems to have sparked way too many heated discussions in the comments for me to keep track of. Whoops. :twilightblush:

I wanted to end off this fic on a happier note, since it was never my intention to single out or demonize any of characters for their approach to interpersonal relationships. MLP is ultimately a show about learning to understand one another, after all, and I think in the end this is the only way this scenario could end while remaining true to the series’s spirit.

Comments ( 79 )

8987626

He needed to grow some balls and try a different method (aka this story).

No, what he needed is help to grow some balls (or to grow in general, really). Or more specifically: If he is still a child, then what he needs is parents. You yourself denied the idea that Twilight is a mother figure to him. So once again: What exactly is her relationship to him? And who does fill the role of parent if Twilight doesn't? Celly and Twilight Velvet very clearly don't. They don't even live in the same city as him.

The boy is clearly enjoying his life.

So? I went through worse as a child than Spike, I also had massive self-esteem issues because of it, but I also wasn't completely anhedonic, without friends, or incapable of having hobbies.

oh good lord the amount. it should be less for the work, but the recent heartache made rarity pad it... quite a bit, plus element of generosity. so i can see this happening, also does ponyville even have a bank? do those even exist in canon equestria?

As a whole, I can say I enjoyed this story.
The resolution of this lingering issue between Rarity an Spike has always been an interesting topic to broach, and seems dependent on the author's interpretation of two major show canons. Those being: Spike's relative age and his status within the main cast.
How the author portrays these two facts in the context of the story is what makes or breaks this type of story for me. I, of course, have my own head canon regarding these two points, but recognize that enough ambiguity exists in the show for multiple interpretations. I am no purist that will turn my nose up at anything not in line with my personal theories, but will enjoy the story as long as it is well presented.
If I had one critique to give, it would be that the resolution is a bit "clean" for personal taste, but recognize the need to neatly sum things up as a shorter story.

All things said 8.1-10

8988087
Equestria is pretty much a utopian society, so... no, I would guess that there are no banks. Just like there are no churches. :pinkiecrazy:

8988109
*hears yelling* oh no... youve angered the celestia haters. RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

8988127
I would assume that I've angered a lot of different people with my comment... Celestia haters, religious folks, capitalism apologists...

What can I say. I do what I can. :trollestia:

Wanderer D
Moderator

Eh, don't worry about the comments. We all love this stuff so it's natural we'll get into debates about it. 8988137 amirite?
I don't think anyone will really end that badly from some umhealthy debate and if they carry this out of here... well, that's on them.

Returning to the story, I do like how you ended this. It's funny how you did take some of the stuff happening in the comments and addressed it in a way that felt I think natural for the small amount of words, and wrapped it up very MLP-like. It does end in a higher note, and hopefully Spike will not only find someone else that returns his feelings, but be a bit more prepared on how to approach them.

All in all, story definitely deserved that thumbs up.

A nice read anyway. I do like fic's that tackle the issues that aren't so obvious and go for the more subtle issues.

I do feel like there was still something wrong with how Spike basically just stops Twilight from blaming herself for how Spike developed his mindset. When someone has an epiphany, if there is some truth to it then the last thing you want to do is stop that epiphany. It basically tells them they made no mistake at all, and being blind to mistakes is not a good thing.

Again though, I enjoyed this fic. Even if I do read into things a little too much.

I wanted to end off this fic on a happier note, since it was never my intention to single out or demonize any of characters for their approach to interpersonal relationships. MLP is ultimately a show about learning to understand one another, after all, and I think in the end this is the only way this scenario could end while remaining true to the series’s spirit.

Honestly, while I was really happy to see that you connect the dots on Spike's assistance of Twilight, Twilight's formerly bad interpersonal relationships, and his feeling that the way to make Rarity like him is to serve her really well...

I think that downplaying her responsibility in causing the... issues at hand isn't.. well...

Okay, I understand you don't want to imply Twilight's a really bad person, because that can reflect really poorly on her, but she can have unintentionally encouraged Spike to be reliant on service to earn his "worth" in her life, and not be Satan.

I suppose, on the other hand, it's somewhat painfully in character for Spike to want to downplay this. Especially as we see Twilight has (apparently) been better, especially if younger her would pay most attention to Spike if he involved himself with her studies. And hopefully manages to shake him out of the idea that he needs to be useful to someone in order to earn their attention or affection, even as he tries to excuse Twilight's role in the situation.

That was a really good wrap-up. Zennistrad, they should hire you as a writer for the show.

8988248
The only reason for NMM was because Luna was mad people went to sleep at night.

Everything else has been headcanon.

But thats a different topic.

8988056
I didn't say Twilight isn't his mother figure. I said we don't know who "raised" him and listed off two other potential candidates.

And lack of friends? Without hobbies?

Because Big Mac doesn't exist. They haven't been doing regular guys nights.
Because Spike doesn't get to enjoy comic books. Went and got his hands on an enchant Power Ponies one and considering how knowledgeable he is on the series he isn't some newbie to it.
And suffering from depression? What show are you watching?

8987920
She could also blame it on "teh drama" of falling down with a damsel in distress. And/or try to forget about this episode at all because she doesn't want Spike to be associated with this Godzilla monster.
I agree, it's all a matter of interpretations. But this one (where she's completely aware and does nothing about it) just doesn't sit right with me.

Actually, same with Spike only being able to attract Twilight's attention by helping her. Then who has been taking care of Spike? I mean sing him lullabys to sleep and all these.

8988487
All of this happened in Ponyville. What sort of life did he had before moving to Ponyville with Twilight?
Come to think of it, what sort of life Twilight had before moving to Ponyville? Pretty much everything we know is that she was Celestia's apprentice and had no friends. On the other hand, she was a good acquaintance of Moondancer at the very least, as the latter expected Twilight to appear at her birthday. So the situation is not so clear and is mostly headcanon.
Also we have no information of Spike's and Twilight's relations before Ponyville. We don't know who coined the term - as suggested by author Twilight started calling Spike this as a sort of reward, or it happened like "I'm mom's best helper - Yes you are, my dear" with him coming up with this.

So all of this is hugely headcanon, and I can openly say that despite the story being a really good one I just don't like author's interpretation. That's all.

Good ending, stayed true to the show. If it was a "teen" rated story then things would need to be a bit more meaningful, and probably another chapter.

But in the end, really good story and a nice and warm ending. Great job!:moustache:

Why is Spike wearing one of those basketball shirts in the cover art? Is he joining the Haylem Globetrotters?

SOme people think spike is a slave which bugs the hell oyrt of me. He had a bunch of m

m

. I mean he did have all those social contacts. Like hoity-toity for example. He does have a have a social life And friends beyond mane six. I always thoug, . That for the most part that rarity just liked his company. Minus a few times like taking out the trash or that dress thing. We did see in the mud episode that they were Jim hunting and I assume that was because she likes him around

I enjoyed this, but I think it is important that Spike and Rarity sit down and work out the details of their professional relationship. The check at the end raised more questions than it answered. Is Spike getting paid now? How much? Is it hourly? Is it at Rarity's whim? While this was an important step forward for both, they still need to get on the same page about what Spike coming over to help Rarity at the shop constitutes, be it a job, volunteer work, or something else.

The scene with Twilight realizing what she had done was thoughtful, but perhaps a bit rushed. I think a lot more could have been said about it, and that perhaps it might have been better for Spike to realize it first and then have Twilight grapple with the implications for a while longer instead of immediately having it smoothed over. The piece as a whole could probably have benefitted from being longer in general, giving each scene more time to build up to the main conversations and having more Twi/Spike interactions throughout leading up to their conversation. Starlight probably could have been cut and replaced with a less on the nose encounter with Twilight.

Still, all in all an enjoyable read!

8988650
last episode [Molt Down] Rarity had him fitting a dress in the end ( funny her ponyquins in the back ground were bare)

:raritystarry: I'm what?!?
:trollestia: Under Arrest - Dragon labor laws and employment tax evasion.
:rainbowlaugh: Pimp my Spike!
:pinkiegasp: Rarity's going to the BIG HOUSE!
:ajbemused: no way
:moustache: I am 27 in dog years....
:trollestia: Oh well if that's the case, Case dismissed.
:duck: thank Celestia
:trollestia: now about those back taxes..... :raritycry:
:facehoof:
:moustache: I'll take care of this
:twilightoops:

8988650
It's actually a dress that he's helping Rarity fit for her.

This is something that I think really needs to happen in the show. The end of "Molt Down" seemed to show that Rarity was taking advantage of Spike. Of course she has known how he felt since the end of "Secrets of My Excess" when he and Rarity were plunging to what could have been their deaths. An upvote, a fave and a watch.....a truly spectacular story you have here.

Now the very end did surprise me, Rarity paying Spike for his services. So would this mean he is more of an at will employee now?

8988876
Furthermore it would be interesting to see how much a thousand bits actually is in proportion to everything else in the MLP universe. It seems a bit random at times, at least from what I remember from earlier seasons of the show.

8989197
Why are you upset at me?

Let’s think about this. Spike is part time under age worker. He is doing a lot at the castle...adventures, and the like. If she’s being genuine let’s pretend she did some actual if sloppy math and paid him a decent wage. Equestria seems like the type of place that a full time job would be enough to support all your needs, (that amount of money changes depending on your region, country etc) and you could probably get by reasonably at the poverty line which would be low part time.

So eight hours sleep. Eight-twelve on castle and being a kid stuff, four hours a day with rarity doing work. This would be our best case scenario for his hours wise as it dosent take Into account I’llness or adventures. Four hours a day five days a week. That’s twenty hour weeks, fairly solid part time.

That would give us two years of 20hr week part time for two years. Orrrr one years full workers wages. Of course this is with heavy assumptions and shower thinking. But I would assume that check is most likely at least half a years wages. If not a full years worth. I am feeling more the former than the latter.

So poverty line in my head guesstimate would be 1k bits a year, barely livable. Twould explain why having twenty or so in a little bag is decent buying power....

Yet again. Guesstimates and shower math.

8988056
you seem to be projecting your own issues onto Spike and are also forgetting about Ogres & Oubliettes and Power Ponies

8989337
he answered your question, how did you make that out as he's upset with you

8989642
His avatar picture looked upset. LOL

You know, have we ever seen Rarity go to fetch Spike to do something for her? I don't remember.

Because if she didn't, that would imply it's Spike going to her to offer help. So, "taking advantage of him" would be Spike walking over to Rarity to offer to help her. Which he could stop by not going. We know Rarity asks other characters for help if she needs it. She asked nearly everyone she knew to look after her Manehattan store, but she didn't ask Spike.

8987061

It is unhealthy to have someone who acts as both your mother figure and your employer.

You are making some huge assumptions here regarding the degree to which Equestrian culture is like our own, and for that matter the degree to which all of Western or even American culture was and is like modern urban American culture. To wit, that the roles of "parent" and "employer" must be kept entirely separate.

Among just the Mane Six, we see examples of feudal loyalty (Twilight Sparkle, to Princess Celestia), individual private enterprise (Rarity), familial private enterprise (Applejack and the Apples), apprenticeship (Pinkie Pie, to the Cakes), paramilitary service (Rainbow Dash, to the Weather Patrol and the Wonderbolts), and artistocratic dilettanteism (Fluttershy and her animals) as employment models. Of these six examples, two (Twilight Sparkle and Applejack) are loyal to and employed by others they see as being in some way 'family.'

I'm not entirely sure why you consider "health" in an employment relationship to be synonymous with the relationship being independent of family, or why you believe that Equestrian norms in this regard are obliged to follow those of America c. 2020.

8987462

Illegal? Possibly, but we'd need to know several things about Spike, Rarity and the Equestrian law before we assume so. And nopony in-Show seems to be treating it as such, even potentially.

8989393

Spike is acting as Twilight Sparkle's personal assistant, which is exactly what he wants to be and do. He gets rather luxurious room and board at the castle, plus some sort of allowance which (on the evidence of his purchasing power) seems fairly generous.

Poor, poor Dragon Prince. He is so abused.

8989773
Spike has a weird problem, doesn't he? On the one hand, he desperately wants to be important to others, but whenever he's given serious responsibility, he has a high chance of letting it go to his head. Maybe being Princess Twilight's assistant is, at least for the moment, the best possible compromise.

Good story. Simple enough, easygoing read. I actually think this could have been a decent episode of the show. Lord knows it's a topic that should be addressed more often.

All right wanderer, since you are so much the expert here on why Spike need to realized it's never gonna happen, why don't we actually throw the writers a bone (like another commenter stated, and obviously agrees with you 100 percent), and give Spike someone that he can crush on and actually have a damn chance of it being reciprorated??

Enlighten me. Who would be a suitable candidate to reciprorate? Hell, even use the CMCs if ultimately that turns out to be the case.

I'm glad that in the second chapter you demonstrated that Spike wasn't being entirely reasonable, nor Rarity entirely bitchy, though. One thing that is very clear from vanilla canon is that Rarity cares greatly for Spike, at least as a friend.

Whether or not she sees him as more, or ever will see him as more, is far from obvious on the Show. But the fact that they are friends, and that Spike often helps Rarity with jobs, does not entitle him to her romantically or sexually. Consider that if Rarity thought that it did, she'd essentially be whoring herself to him.

8989642

you seem to be projecting your own issues onto Spike

You're presuming a lot. My situation was very different from Spike's in a lot of ways. I merely brought it up to point out that having things happen to you as a child that harm your development doesn't necessarily mean you're going to be a complete wreck. Maybe I shouldn't have brought it up at all. It's not like I'm the only example I could have used.

and are also forgetting about Ogres & Oubliettes and Power Ponies

I think you're misreading my last comment. See above.

8988487

And lack of friends? Without hobbies?
Because Big Mac doesn't exist. They haven't been doing regular guys nights.
Because Spike doesn't get to enjoy comic books. Went and got his hands on an enchant Power Ponies one and considering how knowledgeable he is on the series he isn't some newbie to it.

:ajbemused: You know, I'm slowly getting angry. This isn't the first time you misconstrue what I'm saying, and I'm beginning to think it's deliberate. I wasn't saying Spike doesn't have friends or hobbies. Rather, I was acknowledging that Spike has friends and hobbies and then merely pointing out that the fact that he has friends and hobbies doesn't prove that there aren't factors in his childhood that are harmful to his emotional development. Thus, bringing up the fact that he has friends and hobbies isn't an argument for anything in the context of this discussion.

This is how the discussion went down:

8987626

The boy is clearly enjoying his life.

8988056

So? I went through worse as a child than Spike, I also had massive self-esteem issues because of it, but I also wasn't completely anhedonic, without friends, or incapable of having hobbies.

I honestly can't see how that could be misconstrued as me denying that Spike has friends and hobbies when I'm explicitly acknowleding that fact - at least not unless I'm talking to someone who already intends to misconstrue anything I say no matter what anyway, which may very well be the case.

But to iterate it once again: The fact that he is enjoying his life, has friends and hobbies does not prove that there are no harmful influences to his emotional development. That's simply not how it works.

8989718

You are making some huge assumptions here regarding the degree to which Equestrian culture is like our own, and for that matter the degree to which all of Western or even American culture was and is like modern urban American culture.

First of all, you're apparently assuming that I'm American. That's hilarious.

Secondly, I'm not making "assumptions" about "culture" at all, since "culture" didn't even figure into my argument so far. I'm applying what I know about social relations and their psychological consequences, particularly in the context of child raising. Of course, you could argue that pony and dragon psychology functions fundamentally different from human psychology - but then you would be the one who makes assumptions and has to provide evidence for that.

8990049

The question of just what Spike's equivalent age would be by Pony standards is difficult to answer. He's not a literal "baby," and probably wasn't even at the start of Season One. He was, though, in Dragon terms a pre-adolescent child -- now, an adolescent child.

On the other hand, he's probably about as old in absolute terms as a late-adolescent or even young-adult colt or stallion. And in terms of intelligence and other capabilities, he's basically the equivalent of a Pony stallion. A very smart, well-educated, high-status young stallion.

I have to agree with you on this part. I have some issues with your timeline, but I agree with you that it's not as clear-cut as some people make it out to be (although I also understand why the show won't ever touch that issue).

However, I think there's another reason entirely why Rarity probably won't be interested in Spike romantically. It has less to do with him and more with her. Aside from Secret of My Excess (which is overall a highly ill-conceived and badly constructed episode), literally all evidence in the show supports the idea that Rarity is exclusively attracted to well-groomed unicorn stallions, with a soft (non-exclusive) preference for white-coated ones. She occasionally uses flirting to get favors from non-unicorn stallions as well (like in one little scene in the Gala episode at the end of season 1), and even from other mares once or twice, but she doesn't seem to fantasize about them herself. The objects of her desire, the ones we actually see her fantasize about, are all unicorn stallions, with not one single exception.

Don't get me wrong, I don't outright reject the possibility that Rarity could acquire a new taste, so to speak. I know for a fact that it can happen. In this particular case, I just don't find it overly likely.

(Of course, that also doesn't mean I disagree with writing Sparity shipfics. I'm not a fan of that pairing, but fanfiction gives us the possibility to interpret these characters' personalities a bit more losely. If you like Sparity, that's fine by me, I won't try to talk you out of it. I just find that pairing unlikely going by what I think is going on in the show.)

Comment posted by Aristagtle deleted Jun 17th, 2018

8990126

The Cutie Mark Chronicles (S1E23) shows Spike being hatched when Twilight applied for Celestia's school. So, the question is"How long before the pilot was that?"

IMO, 10-12years. My reasons are
Hasbro says that the first 3 seasons covered one year
Dash probably applied for the Wonderbolts as soon as possible
this makes her 18 then, 17 during the pilot, 5-7 during her first Rainboom

Twilight was applying for school
This makes her 4-6 at the time
(depends "Kindergarten or 1st grade?"
That makes her 14-18 during the pilot
(So. she started her career at about the same age that Jon of Arc started hers)

The problem is that these are interrelated
You make the Rainboom longer ago,
You make Twilight older but during the pilot
but Dash younger during the Rainboom
IMO 11 years, giver take, is about right

The question, of course, is "how old is that in dragon years?", which in turn depends on "how long do dragons live?" & "how long has it been since the pilot (in show time)?" IMO, Spike is early adolescence.

No, the thing that surprises me is that the Cutie Mark Crusaders were still in school.

Thanks for ending that on a happier note. It would have been super depressing to end it with the first chapter; the second was a nice resolution with a moral worthy of a show episode, that being "Sometimes we do things that hurt each other without realizing it, and sometimes there is fault with both parties, and it's okay to be hurt, but it doesn't mean the relationship has to end." There's more nuance to it than that, of course, but I think that more or less sums up the main points. =) Anyway, nice job! Good to see a headcanon where they move into a healthier understanding of their friendship.

8989337
What are you talking about? I'm not upset or anything. I was just correcting you on.......wait a minute. You're trolling me aren't you?

Careful, Rarity. You've set his salary expectations for the next few errands. :raritywink:

In any case, very glad I reserved judgement on this one until now. Wonderful resolution in the spirit of the show. There's no villain here, just people who made unwise assumptions and bad decisions. But the power of friendship (and open communication) wins out in the end. Excellent work. Thank you for it.

8988087

Seems to me she's trying to cover back wages as well? They've been doing this for years, even assuming seasons are shorter than years.

Plus, we don't have a great handle on the value of a bit. Like, a cherry was two bits in Putting Your Hoof Down (might have been a very nice cherry?), but a whole basket of apples was (imagined to be) 8 in Ticket Master. That puts a bit at around 30-60¢, depending on the basket.

8990159

The question, of course, is "how old is that in dragon years?", which in turn depends on "how long do dragons live?" & "how long has it been since the pilot (in show time)?" IMO, Spike is early adolescence.

I think in this context, it's actually less relevant how long they live, and more relevant how quickly they mature physically, mentally and emotionally. A species that lives 300 years but for all intents and purposes reaches adulthood at the age of 18 is absolutely conceivable, for example.

I don't have too big of an issue with your timeline, although it would assume that all of the Mane Six got their cutie marks really early. They would have to be at the age of 5-7 at the time of the Rainboom, and all the foals we've seen getting their cutie marks got them in their early to mid teens. I guess it's stretching it, but we don't know how exactly it works, so okay.

8990701

Thanks for that. I didn't see this, and unfortunately I'm not in a place where I can get the IDW comics as hard copy unless I have to go to a mall (which I hate) or have to order it, and wait appoximately 1 week or more for it. What can I say, sometimes one wants a hard copy, instead of reading it online.

And I think the fact that Spike is in love is someone (even when the premise was completely unhealthy) should show Twilight and the other that it's more than time for them to teach Spike how to learn to love someone in a romantic light properly and healthily...Let's face it, I have a feeling that there has to be some young fillies that may actually have a bit of feelings for Spike but Spike has been so blinded from it because of his infatuation with Rarity. It would be so much a 'turning the corner' moment if Spike gets to interact with creatures that do actually like him back in that romantic light. It would be a relief for Rarity and Twilight knowing that even though Spike may have been wounded metaphorically, they see him recover--and as the saying says, 'what doesn't kill you makes you stronger' . And it would be a joy for Spike to see somepony reacts positively to his actions that he usually gives for Rarity.

...when that happens, then we can finally put that Sparity thing to rest. It would be wonderful closure.

8990206
I was joking with you. Your profile image looked angry, so I joked about you being upset with me through the medium of artistic choice.

8990836
I do agree with you, but I'm also worried outright ending Spike's crush on Rarity will lead to backlash. A new character would probably be hated for being a "homewrecker", despised for only existing to break up Rarity and Spike, all those things, like magnitudes worse than what happened with Flash Sentry. Then again, Sugar Belle and Mac didn't get that much hate...

8991100

The thing with Mac and Sugar Belle are that they are side characters--at the very most supporting characters. So there aren't that many feathers to ruffle if it become canon that there are gonna be couples. The same can be for Maud and Mudbriar. In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't really matter.

The backlash with Flash Sentry is that we were dealing with one of the main protagonists in the story, Twilight Sparkle. And something similar is like that between Spike and Rarity. The fact that they are all main characters/protagonists in the show and countless episodes show that if something that show-breaking was to happen, it has to be done carefully and well planned. The initial response to Twilicorn was expected for the most part. It was polarizing, because something major was happening to the main character--Twilght earning her wings and ascending to her role as the Princess of Friendship.

I honestly think it's gonna take something canon-shattering like Twilcorn, or the Golden Oaks Library being destroyed by Tirek to 'break' Spike and Rarity up without a shitload of backlash (it's impossible to think something like that can be done w/o any consequences).. And no Spike finally getting wings ironically wasn't it; the wings just confirmed that he's getting older and closer to adulthood...

8991241
Yup. And he does show he's at least considering his options. You know, asking about Skellinore...

8991252

LOL, I wonder if she will ever come back...I'm a little surprised that no one has even wrote a story about it, seems like an interesting premise....unless it's been done before....

Different topic: is it a bit wrong that I kinda want to see an episode where Spike canonically has feelings and spend more time with some female creature, and Rarity is actually a bit envious/jealous (I'm not sure I'm using the right term there) that Spike's doting more on somepony else and not her? Mind you I'm not talking about yandere, but more of 'you don't know what you got until it's gone'...

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