Puzzle Piece
Zhilius: the City of Giants. The center of the long dead empire of the dreaded Quinametzin. They were said to be giants who had ruled over the enslaved Dromaed with a bloody fist, using foul blood magics the likes of which have never been seen since. Their empire extended across a continent and stood for a thousand years, their might unchallenged. But in the end, they were punished by the gods for their many sins and struck down by great calamities that ended both the Quinametzin and their empire.
This one had its doubts. Part of this one's stock and trade was information, and part of that meant sifting through rumors. Rumors are inherently unreliable; spread from ear to ear, they morph in the process of communication, colored by the people that speak them and are sometimes based entirely in lies. But the thing with rumors is that there is almost always a kernel of truth to them, however obscure. Several rumors speaking of a king’s presumed misdeeds could hint at discontent with the crown. Talk of trade slowing can speak of wariness from merchants about the economy. What someone thinks about a rumor can say a great deal about them, such as their biases or how well informed they are.
Myths and legends are like rumors, only aged like a fine wine. Unlike the rumors that surrounded our daily lives, they possess the power to stay in our minds from generation to generation. Like rumors, they also often contain a kernel of truth. In order to stay in our collective minds, they need to have the power to imprint themselves within a cultural conscience. To do that, they needed to both reflect and shape society. Such tales are where our paragons and villains reside, our examples for how we should conduct ourselves; who we should and shouldn’t act like. Every society has its heroes and villains, its national paragons of what they are. Even if the idea of those heroes was very different than the truth.
Thus this one couldn’t help but wonder what Zhilius was supposed to represent within the collective conscious of the Dromaed. What kept the Quinametzin so ingrained within the Dromaed psyche that the Dromaed still spoke of them thousands of years after their fall? Why did the greenseers insist on using this place as a testing ground for their hristak?
As for Zhilius itself, it was a city long forgotten and neglected. Trees and vines had long ago overgrown over every structure within sight. Still, the great stone pyramids loomed over us, their structures casting us in shadow as we walked through what remained of the streets that thousands must have traversed so long ago. It spoke of a long-forgotten magnificence, of a society that once dominated all it observed but was now little more than a whisper.
This one wasn’t sure how to feel about what it saw. Part of this one was disappointed; its imagination had conjured up images of something truly magnificent and indomitable pyramids, streets paved with gold, and objects of near immeasurable value. Deep down this one knew such sentiments were silly and such illusions were utterly dissolved in face of the ruin and deterioration that surrounded it in reality. But still, especially after all the danger this one had gone through to get here, this one had wanted something greater than just a macrocosm of the lesser ruins we had walked past on our journey here. Instead it seemed as though it was but a matter of time until the jungle reclaimed these desolate remains of a once great civilization. So this one concentrated in looking for dangers, and any sign of Ephemera and the Dromaed.
The Do-mare on the other hoof seemed much more pleased with our arrival in Zihlius. She tried to keep herself in check, keeping an eye on her surroundings and being careful not to damage anything, but her big smile and gleeful gawking betrayed her excitement.
“Happy to finally be here?” this one prompted.
“Well yeah, it's an unexplored ancient Dromead city!” The Do-mare’s gaze swept over the skyline of the city, her wonder at the sight palatable. “Chances are nopony’s been here in millennia. Who knows what we’ll learn if we get enough time to look around?!”
“It's certainly something,” this one agreed. “To think, they've stood for this long. There's definitely preservation magic holding this place together.” In fact, this one had felt the preservation magic over the place immediately upon coming here, but it wouldn’t do to let her know the extent of this one’s magical talents.
“Yeah, though the quality of the construction counts for a lot too.” She flittered over to a nearby structure, a squat, small building that might have been a small business or home long ago. She pushed aside some of the vines to examine the stone underneath.
“Right, they made it to last.” This one’s eyes flicked to a structure that hadn’t survived the elements and ravages of time so well it was nothing more than a pile of stone. “Even if I doubt they intended it to end up like this. But then, what empire does?”
“No empire ever thinks it might fall.”
This one glanced back to the Alya-mare and the Idea-stallion to see that they were busy talking with one another as they took in the sights. Capital had a camera out and was taking pictures of the ruins. “Oh, they think about it, I’m sure. Every empire is usually just the inheritor of another empire’s legacy and sees the ruins of their forebears. It’s among the reasons why they work so hard to build up their empires and make sure they stand, not to mention build monuments to their greatness.” This one nodded to a half-crumbled statue of what looked like a Dromaed warrior or shaman. “Immortality is perhaps the most precious commodity in the world.”
The Do-mare stopped what she was doing to examine the statue. “Yeah, I guess you’ve got a point. I can point out several old works of literature where someone laments how their empire is getting worse with every generation and how their fall is inevitable.” She shot this one a grin. “Usually complaining about how stupid the kids dress, the awful music they listen to, and how provocative their dancing is.”
This one chuckled. “I’ve read much the same. Funny how much stays the same despite all that changes.”
“Something like that.” The Do-mare leaned down to examine the head that had fallen off the statue, now cracked in half and nearly covered in moss. “People are people at the end of the day, and on some level we don’t change that much.”
This one watched her as she worked, curious to see how exactly she went about her job now that we had actually gotten to our destination. “So is this how it normally works for you? You come running up to some long-forgotten ruin and start poking around?”
“It's kind of how archeology goes, yeah.” She slowly circled the statue, examining its base as she did so. “Though a lot of it is pretty slow. You don’t want to damage the artifacts you’re trying to collect, after all.”
“When you aren’t leaping through centuries-old traps to grab something particularly shiny that is,” this one said with the intention of provoking her a bit. “From what little Ephemera told me, you competed quite fiercely for some noteworthy finds.”
The Do-mare smirked at this one. “That can be part of it, yeah. Though that type of stuff is supposed to be the exception to the rule. Most of the time when I’m trying to snatch an artifact that way I’m playing keep away from someone like Ephemera because they just want to sell it on the black market, or because it’s some dangerous magical item that could be misused in the wrong hooves. What I really want to do is preserve historical artifacts for the future so that generations can learn from them.”
“A pity the Dromaed don't seem to agree with your methods,” this one observed. “I couldn’t help but notice that they didn’t want you poking around in Zihlius, or anywhere else for that matter.”
The mention of the conversation with the Greenseer immediately darkened the Do-mare’s mood. “Yeah, guess they're kinda close-minded.”
“It could be argued that these artifacts do belong to them,” this one said as a Discord's advocate. “They’re a part of their legacy, so they have the right to decide what should be done with them.”
The Do-mare snorted and jabbed a hoof at the delabodated statue. “Then they should care more about their history. Look at this! Everything is rotting away.”
Sensing that this one was getting to the heart of the Do-mare, this one pressed on. “Alternatively, they could have a different take on how they want to preserve their history. Not everyone thinks or acts like Equestrians. The Dromaed quite simply don’t have our concepts of the traditional museum to preserve artifacts and history. I’m sure they would argue that they don’t even have a need of such things.”
“Just because someone has a different way of thinking doesn’t mean they’re right.” The Do-mare stomped to a nearby building absolutely covered in vegetation, the stone underneath only barely visible. “And it's not just that. Do you know how fast roots and vines grow in a rainforest?”
“Very.” This one had lived long enough in a tropical region to know how quickly some plants could grow if unimpeded.
“And how much damage they can do to a building when there's no cleanup and maintenance?” She gestured at the building that had collapsed in on itself.
“Significant,” this one conceded. “Between the rain, humidity, and vegetation, buildings can be pretty quickly destroyed.”
“You don't know the half of it. Here, help me with this.” The Do-mare pulled out a machete and started hacking away at a patch of vines blocking a doorway. This one pulled out its dagger and helped her until we managed to cut our way inside afterwith a few minutes’ work. Within was a large chamber, barren except for the moss, vines, and other vegetation that had managed to worm its way in.
The Do-mare growled as she shook her head. “Look at this. What condition do you think any artifacts in here are going to be in?”
If there were any artifacts within the room, they were long lost underneath layers of flora and stones. “Anything not long-lasting will be long gone, I suspect.”
The Do-mare whirled to face this one. “Exactly! They're literally letting their history rot away, all the while saying it's the noble and enlightened thing to do! It's historical vandalism by neglect! Yes, maybe they have their stories of what happened in the past that they pass down through the generations, but that’s not the same as having actual items from the past. And once an artifact is gone, it’s gone. There’s no replacing it.” She sighed and her wings drooped. “Ignorance and apathy destroy a lot more history than malice.”
She made a good point. This one didn’t see much a point in just letting objects lie on the ground to rot, though it knew it was biased. It was highly unlikely the Dromaed would ever see things the Do-mare’s way, whatever her argument. They were determined to see that things remained the way they were, and that was that. They were an insular and isolated people that had no intention of changing their ways, that much this one was certain of, and there was little use in negotiating with them. Now whether that made it right for the Do-mare to steal away artifacts that were doomed for destruction by neglect was the sticking point of the argument, and ultimately came down to one’s personal opinions on such things.
But there was an issue that concerned this one more than the philosophical ethics of archeology. “You make a good argument, though there is the question of if they were right about this place being evil. That is a pretty important part of the discussion if we’re dealing with some kind of forbidden magic.”
The Do-mare snorted. “If I had a bit for every old ruin I've been to that's supposed to be an accursed place of ancient evil, I'd be richer than Capital. Just because the locals say there’s something dangerous with the local ruins doesn’t mean there is, or that they even have it right on why it’s dangerous.”
This one grinned. “So I take it that you're not intimidated by Zihlius?”
The Do-made started digging around, making sure the ravages of time and the environment had indeed destroyed anything of value. “Honestly, at this point it'd be more shocking if I ran into an ancient ruin that wasn't cursed, haunted, or full of death traps.”
“That would certainly be my luck,” this one said. “The Ephemera certainly seemed convinced something was here.”
“Only one way to find out.” Finding nothing in this building, the Do-mare led the way out.
“So where to—“ This one was interrupted when its stomach loudly growled. Clearing this one’s throat, it smiled apologetically. “Sorry about that.”
The Do-made grinned and nudged this one in the ribs with an elbow. “You gonna need a meal there before we continue?” She gave this one a second glance, noting this one’s slim body—slimmer than it had been before we had set out from Port Nowhere. “You’re starting to look like skin and bones. Rationing’s important, but there’s no point saving for later if you fall over from starvation right now.”
This one waved the suggestion off. “I’ll snack on something along the way to wherever we’re going. No sense delaying everything just because I’m a little hungry.”
The Do-mare shrugged. “If you say so.”
In truth, the matter was far more concerning than this one was letting on. This one was suffering from a hunger that no mere trail rations could sate. The journey to the City of Giants had not been kind to this one’s reserves of love magic. This one’s jar of thymoplasm had run out the other day, and it had been some time since this one had last fed on the Ephemera-mare’s minions. This one was getting hungry. Distressingly so. More than once over the past day this one had caught itself staring at its companions, sensing the love within them. Each of them had people they loved, and there were the growing bonds between them as we traveled together. Perhaps if this one could draw one of them away for a few minutes to—
This one firmly clamped down on those thoughts before they strayed into actions. This one had learned how to deal with its hunger, even when it was severely short on food. But an iron will and training only went so far. This one had effectively been keeping itself on half rations for weeks now, and bit by bit the hunger had gnawed at this one’s self-control. At the end of the day, no amount of self-control or discipline could stave off becoming feral sooner or later. This one needed to eat, and soon.
In truth, this one had hoped we would run across one of the Ephemera-mare’s thugs by now. If this one could just get five minutes alone with one of them, or even two...
This one reminded itself not to drool over the thought. If we didn’t come across a convenient meal within the day, then this one might be forced to reveal its nature and ask to be allowed to feed itself before it did something beyond its control. That wasn’t something this one particularly wanted to do. There was a long string of unfortunate incidents in the past when a changeling had revealed their nature to a non-changeling.
Not knowing this one’s distress, the Do-mare looked around before her eyes settled on the biggest pyramid that sat in the city. “Well, the biggest, most intact-looking building is that way. Any objection to heading there next?”
She flashed this one a grin and this one returned it. “That does seem like the most obvious place Ephemera would go. So let’s find out if she’s already there and get the drop on her, or prepare an ambush.”
“And see if there are any valuable artifacts inside,” the Do-made added.
This one chuckled. “No reason we can’t multitask.”
The central pyramid of Zhilius was a massive construction that stabbed up through the heart of the city like a well-worn dagger. Time and the elements had taken their toll on its blackened stone. Rain had worn down the features of its statues, vines crept up its sides, and birds and bugs infested its crevices, but still it whispered the promises of the power of a foregone age. This had been the center of a millenia-dead civilization, and it still stood, even if only as a gravestone for the Quinametzin Empire.
We headed through the half-open doors of the pyramid, their features long since eroded by time and use, claw marks all along the gate. Inside was near perfect darkness, and the corners of the entrance hall seemed to drink in the light that seeped in from outside. Only the dim glow from the odd patch of fluorescent fungus offered any kind of light within. The Do-mare flew past this one as she activated her light gem, its light only seeming to emphasize the darkness that somehow felt like it was reaching out for it. Once illuminated, the entrance hall was every bit as impressive as the outside of the structure—if almost every bit as worn. The chamber was almost deceptively large, big enough to fit a small hamlet within. Large statues of various figures ranging from Dromaed warriors, scholars, spellcasters, and artisans lined the hall, flanking hallways that lead further into black hallways. They stared down at any who entered with seeming disapproval at those who would dare interrupt their masters from within its halls.
The Do-mare pulled out a notebook and started jotting down notes as she hovered around a statue. “Capital, can you get some pictures?”
“Of course.” The Idea-stallion smiled helpfully as he pulled out his camera and started snapping pictures, the flashes of light briefly illuminating sections of the chamber. “Thankfully I was able to find room to bring this, even if I only have so much film to work with.”
“We’ll make it work.” The Do-mare jotted down some more notes. “Just pace yourself and make sure to take really good shots of what you can. We’ve got this whole place to explore.”
This one started activated its own light gem and walked around the chamber, keeping a wary eye out for any dangers. Between the Ephemera-mare, the hristak, traps, and a dozen other threats, there was more than enough dangers to think about. Still, this one couldn’t help but let its eyes wander to the stories-tall statues that loomed over us, and it stopped under the giant figure of a grim-faced armored warrior, his grip tight on a spear as he looked ready to spring into violence at any moment. It made this one feel small and insignificant—which was probably the point of their construction.
The Do-mare whistled. “The scale really is amazing.”
“It must have taken forever to build all of this.” Despite the immensity of our discovery, the Alya-mare still pulled out her own notebook, consulted it, and then started harvesting some mushrooms from the wall.
“Time or lots of labor,” this one observed. “The Quinametzin were supposed to be into slavery, after all.” It might have been the Free Mind in this one, but the idea of thousand of slaves being made to toil away to make something like this for their masters soured the discovery.
“Not just normal labor.” The Do-mare flittered down to tap at a portion of one of the statue’s legs. “Look, there's no obvious lines where different pieces of rock were put together. It's like the whole statue was carved out of a single solid block!”
The Idea-stallion whistled. “My word! A block of stone that large would have to weigh...” He pulled out some paper and quickly scribbled his calculations. “Almost fifty tons!”
The Do-mare nodded. “Even the biggest blocks in the southern pyramids of Old Selerika are only a fraction of that size.”
This one raised as eyebrow as it carefully studied the statue. Indeed, there weren’t any of the usual lines indicating different blocks of stone being sealed together. That was highly unusual for a couple different reasons; first and foremost was the simple fact that the larger a stone was the heavier it would be, and thus harder and more expensive to move from whatever quarry it came from. Second was that it could be difficult to find consistent blocks of the same type of stone large enough for even a modestly sized statue, much less these monstrous things.
“Perhaps they used magic?” this one suggested. “Geomancy could have melded the stones together to appear seamless.”
“That’d explain it.” The Do-mare returned to circling the statues. “Even if it’s a bit soon to say for certain. That’s going to require more study. Pity we couldn’t bring the whole team here like we’d planned, this is such an amazing find!”
This one flew up to hover by her side. “It certainly seems that way.” This one frowned at where one statue’s arm had fallen off and smashed on the ground. “Even if this place has seen better days.”
“Yeah.” The Do-mare scowled. “We need to get some proper archeologists out here and preserve everything before the neglect gets any worse.”
“Easier said than done,” this one pointed out. “I doubt the Dromaed will have changed their opinions since we last saw them, and getting a full expedition of archeologists here would be a challenge even if they weren’t a barrier.”
“We'll find a way. I can't believe those lizard-birds are letting something this amazing just rot away. This is their history, their legacy! Sooner or later it’s all going to be gone because they didn’t do anything to preserve it!”
The Idea-stallion took another picture. “Let's not worry about the far future until we're done and on our way back to civilization. I think we’re going to need to rethink our approach with the Dromaed, but I’d prefer to do that from the safety of my family’s study.”
“Not much we can do about that here anyways.” The Do-mare reached out to clean off some of the fluorescent mold from the statue, but this one caught her hoof.
“Better be careful about touching that,” this one warned, remembering its encounters with the mold spirit back in the pyramid near Port Nowhere.
The Do-mare frowned at this one as it held her hoof back. “It's just mold, it's harmless.”
“You've never been attacked by sapient mold before,” this one insisted. “Back at Port Nowhere I saw a bunch of this stuff form into some sort of monster that attacked me. I barely got away from it with my life.”
The Do-mare stared at this one as she digested that story. “Is that seriously a thing that can happen? You better not be making stuff up, because this isn’t really the time for it.”
“I assure you, I've seen it,” this one insisted. “It might even be tied up with the Greenseer’s magic. The mold monster was protecting the compass I managed to get, and I’d rather not have to deal with one of those things again.”
“I've been all over the world and never seen it.” Still, she pulled her hoof away from the mold and this one let her go. “But even if you are just making that story up, it could be dangerous in other ways.”
The Alya-mare nodded up in our direction. “Better safe than sorry. The last thing we want is for someone to get sick from tropical mold spores.”
“We have more than enough trouble to deal with without borrowing more.” This one glanced around, still not detecting the presence of anyone else. “Speaking of trouble, I'm not seeing any sign of Ephemera or her lot yet.”
“Doesn't mean they aren't here.” The Do-mare snapped her notebook closed and returned it to her bags. “But if she’s already here, she'll be covering her tracks.”
“You honestly think she can be that subtle?” This one’s impressions of the Ephemera-mare were that she possessed all the subtlety of a brick. If a problem was to be solved, then it was to be done in the most direct method available.
“She's brutal, but she has the kind of low cunning you’d expect from a chronic backstabber,” the Do-mare said. “Don’t get overconfident around her. You’ll be thinking she’s an idiot, and then she’ll surprise you with something nasty when you least expect it.”
This one hadn’t lived as long as it had by being sloppy. Even if the Ephemera-mare wasn’t the most dangerous opponent this one had ever faced, she still had us badly outnumbered, and her mystery employer might have yet more nasty tricks to throw our way. No, best to be cautious for now until we had a proper handle on the situation. Though the knot of hunger in this one’s stomach also reminded this one of the potential rewards of finding the Ephemera-mare or her minions.
“So where to next?” The Alya-mare glanced around to the pitch black hallways. “I doubt we want to spend all our time here looking at old statues.”
“Onwards of course.” The Idea-stallion took one last picture before putting his camera away. “We can hardly stop after coming so far.”
“Which way, though?” this one pressed.
The main hall was lined with a dozen different passages that led further into the pyramid. Most were smaller doorways, probably for servants of whoever resided within the structure, though three were larger passageways that could allow dozens of individuals to walk abreast of one another. The Do-mare flitted about the room to examine the statues and doors. Considering this was her area of expertise and she had a natural talent for navigation, this one was content to let her decide where to go.
Eventually she decided upon the central doors, flanked by a pair of statues that struck this one as crowned warrior-priests with their spears and staves held crossed over their chests. “Hm, the central one seems the best choice. When in doubt, go to the fanciest-looking place.”
“Bully!” the Idea-stallion declared as he approached the statues flanking the double stone doors. “Just when I thought it couldn't get any grander than what I'd seen before!”
This one stepped up to the doors along with everyone else. They were large and imposing, and underneath the mold were engravings of Dromaed-like figures and letters this one didn’t understand. After a quick examination an obvious problem presented itself. “It looks like the doors are sealed, or at least I’m not seeing any obvious door handle here.” This one had a feeling the doors had either been opened through the copious use of slaves or magic, neither of which we had in abundance.
“We'll open them.” Daring flew up and down as she looked for a means to open the portal. “If I had a bit for every door in an ancient crypt that looked like it could never be opened...”
“Too right.” The Idea-stallion reached for the door, but then the Do-mare suddenly slapped his hoof away.
Her eyes were wide when she screamed at us. “Don't touch it! Everyone get ten meters back and take cover!”
This one didn’t waste time asking questions. It bolted from the door, and upon seeing that the Alya-mare had froze, pushed her to get her moving. “Go! Now!” That snapped her out of shock and she ran for it. We reached one of the doorways and hid behind the door frame, and the Do-mare and the Idea-stallion had found their own door frame to take cover behind.
When nothing immediately happened this one looked to the Do-mare. “What was that about?”
“Look.” The Do-mare snatched up a rock and threw it at the door. It smacked against stone and bounced to the floor. Not a moment later a green ooze started spraying from the door, sigils along its length glowing as it did so. The ooze immediately started sizzling when it hit the ground, and an acidic smell wafted into the air. The smell was so noxious that this one was forced to pull out a handkerchief to cover its muzzle, and the floor tiles bubbled where the acid had landed.
The Idea-stallion blinked owlishly upon seeing the death he had only just narrowly avoided. “Starswirl's beard!”
“Looks like the traps here still work,” this one observed. “The Giants must have built them to last.”
“Or the Greenseers have been maintaining them,” the Alya-mare suggested.
“Don't worry,” the Do-mare assured us as she left her hiding spot and slowly approached the door. “I can crack ruins like this in my sleep. No problem.”
As though in answer to that challenge, a loud rumble came from the ceiling, along with the scrape of stone on stone as a dozen hoof-sized holes opened up.
The Idea-stallion frowned as he stared upward and walked up next to this one. “Why do I have a sinking suspicion we've just made a right pig's ear of this?”
Bursts of bright green gas began seeping out from the holes in the ceiling. Seeing that nothing good could come of this, this one suggested the only rational course. “Run!”
The Do-mare bolted our way, her wings pumping hard. “It's heavier than air! Get out and find high ground!”
This one led the way down one of the hallways. There was no way to tell where it led, but this one liked its chances going down a random hallway than staying where that gas was going. At least had a chance to counter any new form of death trap we ran across. We passed by multiple rooms as we fled, our light sources only briefly illuminating their interiors before we passed them. Spotting a staircase, this one took a sharp turn and ran up them, the clatter of everyone else’s hooves behind it as it sought safety.
Once we had ascended the stairs this one kept running for a bit until we found ourselves in a new room. If the gas had followed us this far then there was probably no place safe we could reach in time to save our lives, and this one would prefer not to keep running until we got into some form of trouble. Besides, this room had caught this one’s eye.
Near as this one could tell, we were in some sort of artificial garden. In the center of the room sat a crystal tree, its trunk so black it seemed to absorb the light. Our reflections danced along its irregular surfaces, and glowing orange orbs hung from its branches. Along the walls were a vast variety of crystal plants of all colors. Whether they had been grown through some arcane means, transformed into their current forms or were the mere mundane creations of some artisan, this one could only guess. Though this one noted that the fungus had not reached this room, whatever that meant. Still, the gas didn’t seem to be coming this far, which was something.
A soft song, deep and melodious with its use of wind instruments and drums, echoed from the halls further into the pyramid. It contrasted the sterile beauty of the crystal garden, but still, this one felt relaxed for the first time since coming to the forsaken city.
The Alya-mare let out a long relieved sigh as she slumped down onto one of the benches lining the room. “Please tell me we’re safe.”
The Do-mare hovered about the room, examining everything with a keen eye for danger and archeological reasons both. “Safe for now by the looks of it. Though don’t get too settled. We’re not out of the woods yet.” She yawned and rubbed her eyes. “But it might not hurt to just rest a bit.”
“We have come a ways.” The Idea-stallion agreed, sitting next to the Alya-mare. “After all that excitement I could stand to close my eyes for a few minutes.”
“Alright we can—” A yawn cut the Do-mare off. “Sorry, we can take five and then work from there.”
The mention of rest did suddenly feel like a good idea. After all the danger we’d just gotten through, and the soft music making this place seem so relaxing...
This one blinked as it realized something was wrong. This was hardly the time to be nodding off, and yet this one found itself sitting and struggling to not lie down despite itself. This one slapped itself to try and stay awake. Through heavy eyelids this one saw that everyone was already asleep around it, the song continuing to play, pressing against this one with its melody. This one tried to stand, to get away, but its limbs were heavy and didn’t cooperate, feeling as though this one were trying to move through molasses. This one was just so tired, its fight against its own hunger having gone on so long, and this one’s will worn down from so many failures and the dangers of the jungle.
This one’s eyes closed and it drifted off to sleep.
If you can't afford to glamour the whole place, make them run to the place that's glamoured. Quite nice.
im completely on daring's side here history is history no matter how bad it is it deserves to be remembered so we don't forget and repeat our mistakes that's why i got pissed off when i heard they were taking down the civil war confederate statues history is history no matter what you can never deny it happened when you know it did
9478722
And stealing is stealing. Which is what Daring is doing.
And the civil war statues are nothing like this.
Those statues exist to glorify people who caused a divide in the USA in order to protect slavery. If you want history about the civil war then pick up a book. You'll learn more. But don't glorify terrible people on public places.
Well, here's hoping they wake up...
9478756
3 things i love to read all the time b im a amiture historian and c it may be glorifying people but it is still history it happened we fixed it but it happened and we can not deny it did evin if you hate something you still admit it happened glorifying something is the first part of history from there you fix the problem but leave the history alone leave the statue as a mark to a dead and gone time in history and make sure people NEVER EVER forget it if you never forget anything than the same mistake can never happen again
9478791
so anyway as the your first comment you cant steal what nobody cares about stealing implies taking something someone cares about if they are just leaving it to rot than they don't care
9478756
9478722
The Confederate statues have a place, in a museum with a plate saying that this person did X and the statue was made because of y. They are our history and should be preserved but that doesn't mean they should be outside glorified. I happen to agree with Daring but very tentivtily, she is stealing from the people the question is if it's justified. I would like her to put the artifacts in a non Equestrian Musuem, while that would not matter to the Dromaeds it will show the rest of the world she is doing it for the preservation of history and not for the aggrandizement of Equestria.
9478831
i agree with that more than my original thing the point is that history should not be forgot and i was not thinking of what you brought up so thanks for setting the record straight sorry if i came off as a bit of a jagoff
9478831
also i do feel like its justified if your just going to let your history die while there are people out their who would care to learn it than i feel that it should be preserved no matter your wishes every bit of history has a place for others to learn from you can never escape history no matter how deep you bury it you don't just forget about it you admit it and do your best the set right what was wrong
9478722
Daring I think is completely in the wrong here. How is stealing physical artifacts preserving history? Write down the history on a piece of paper, maybe take a picture. Artifacts and museums are just flashy galleries to try and make people too lazy to actually learn the history care about it. Even then, it’s more ”ooh look at that’s it’s pretty” then people actually taking anything in. I’d certainly learn a lot more about a subject looking it up in Wikipedia then staring a a few vases or statues.
...those giant statues aren't statues, are they? They're probably the original inhabitants of the city frozen in stone? And they probably won't stay like that, if I had to guess.
Talk about a death trap of a city. And every minute they spend there the city looks more and more dangerous. No wonder the dromaed only send their hristak there to test them. Hard to tell if the city or Ephemera will be more dangerous to them. Not to mention whoever Ephemera's backer is. I wonder how long until Daring and Puzzle find out whatever really happened to cause that empire to fall.
9478798
9478938
That is nothing but self righteous entitlement. The idea you can just take other people's things because you think it'll be better off with it is the type of thing you would find on r/entitledparents on reddit.
"But we're preserving history" is just an excuse to make yourself feel better and cover up the fact that you're doing something really wrong, stealing.
Nothing there belongs to Daring.
She has no claim to anything there.
It is the land/country/property of the Dromaed.
and most importantly the Dromaed are alive and told them explicitly no.
If the Dromaed come forth and tell how Daring stole the stuff it'll do a lot of damage to her credibility and would look really bad for Equestria.
9479097
but in this sutation it is the only thing you can do if they just took pictures and wrote it down whats to say anyone would believe them and if they leave them and others get interested and want too see them for themselves they could get killed they are already there if they don't just take the artifact then others may die trying to find it same thing if they wanted to learn more from a book they may get curious and try to get the artifacts themselves and get killed what is better one pony steal ancient history so others can learn from it or others wonder wear it comes from and get killed
tldr musiems may be boring but they don't get people killed
While it perfectly fits her character, Daring Do's sheer self-righteousness is infuriating. "It's okay to steal the natives' cultural artifacts because they don't want to put them in museums like I do! Their culture has different values than mine, THEREFORE THEY ARE WRONG!"
9479123
for one the dromade hate interacting with outsiders i don't think they would go out just the talk to others for another not all stealing is bad in this case its in the name of preserving history evin if the people that history belong to just want it to rot third and most importantly this fic is a flashback taking place im assuming a few years ago all we can do is read and see what happens as it is being told to use also some of it is told from daring's perspective it will be biased from her opinions
9479145
Hating interacting with others does not mean they will not.
Preserving history is not a good reason to steal from other people. It's just an excuse to make it feel like an okay to do. You're not saving lives or anything like that.
9479173
I disagree, preserving history for future generations is very important. That said because it is stolen Daring should donate it anonymously to a non Equestrian Musuem. The question is whether it is a rightues theft and to me it is, but I hear how it can be seen as not rightues. History should not be forgotten but whether that makes theft ok is hard to answer.
9479222
So important that it becomes ok to practically invade other people's lands, completely disrespect them, steal their precious objects after being told no and then parade around against their will all because
"History".
9479097
Setting aside the question of whether stealing artefacts in the name of preserving history is morally acceptable, the point of artefacts is that they can help prove the authenticity of historical accounts.
Without physical evidence, historians will have a lot more trouble separating truth from conjecture and outright lies.
9479282
If we forget history we are doomed to repeat it, also knowledge forgotten is a loss to mankind. This is a question of values and I doubt I will be able to convince you or you me. If the Dromaeds were preserving their history and not trying to erase it I would think of Daring as a disgusting colonialist that veiws other nations cultures as her property. Bit because they are trying to erase it I feel differently.
9479302
Then write it down or take pictures or whatever.
Even then if they don't want you in their land then that's too bad.
9479302
I think the difference is also key to understanding Daring’s perspective. Unsurprisingly, the archaeologist is deeply offended by the destruction of irreplaceable history and artifacts. As far as Daring’s concerned, what the Dromaed are doing is just a more passive version of historical vandalism, and that seriously sets her off.
9479298
Fair point, I hadn’t consider the trouble of proving the authenticity of the archeologists’ claims. I suppose I have more of a “in a perfect world” mindset when talking about many things.
But of course your way of thinking is the right one, huh Daring? How very convenient for you.
You're right Daring, it's the Dromands' history, and they are the only ones with any say in what to do with it, not you, you self-righteous nag!
9479123 Actually, it would probably only result in Equestria and the other "civilized" nations just shrugging and going "oh, the savages are whining about something". If you don't have the military/economic clout to make the "civilized" nations listen to you, then they just don't give a damn about how much of their museum displays are actually stolen property. Just like every time Greece has demanded the return of the Parthenon pieces from the British Museum and gotten laughed at.
9479302 But Daring does view other cultures as her (or at least, Equestria's) property. The Dromand, a sovereign nation, have a clear "stay out" policy? Why should Daring care about that? Other nations' borders and laws are just an inconvenience to be overcome. The Dromand restrict access to Zhilius to only the Greenseers? Not good enough for Daring! The Domands' artifacts and history needs to be on display for everyone to see, back in Equestria, to Tratarus with what the Dromand want (or how the Dromand are supposed to get to Equestria to see their own history)! The Greenseer was actually willing to give Daring access to Zhilius if she underwent trials and training at a latter date to prove herself to them? Not good enough for Daring! She needs full access right now, damnit!
I said it before, and I'll say it again: Daring is nothing more than an arrogant, pretentious, self-righteous, self-satisfied grave robber. Oh, you don't personally approve of how Culture A is handling their history and artifacts? Well let's just steal them and ship them off to another continent where they can either gather dust and rot in a museum's store room or be put on display for Equestrians to gawk at. Either way, that history and those artifacts are still lost to Culture A. But hey, Equestrian knowledge and academic prestige was (maybe) expanded, and that's all that really matters, isn't it?
As this is all flash-back, Daring obviously gets away with everything (maybe, maybe she doesn't have any stolen artifacts to show for it, at most), and clearly learned nothing.
9479646
Again Daring should NOT put it in a Equestrian Musuem, if she does so she is underming her own point. As for the trials if the trails meant she could retrieve the artifacts so they arnt destroyed then fine, but if it is just permission to look at them that's not good enough, they should be preserved. This is coming from the idea that all history should be preserved, I think the memory of American Slavery should be preserved for all of time, and if it takes theft to preserve it then so be it.
I suspect that the Dromaed theory is that their history is so dangerous it needs to be left rotting away in the forest lest other cultures find it and repeat their mistakes. Probably their dark magic mistakes.
A lone mind suffering from hunger pains in the middle of an expedition in the jungle with nobody to consensually or safely feed off of, that's not good.
Might have to do so regardless. Daring and Alya clearly know eventually.
If those giant statues don't spring to life and try to inflict painful stoney death on everyone I'll be very surprised.
Hey, traps.
Poison gas traps, even better.
That black crystal tree is a big Nope from me.
Particularly since the room is putting the party to sleep.
RIP everyone.
9479850 It's not just the thefts, it's everything about how Daring operates. She violated a sovereign nations borders, attacked members of local law enforcement and broke a convicted felon under a death sentence out of jail so he could help her commit her thefts (it was a short trial, yes, but Puzzle was given a chance to defend himself and his actions, so it was a trial nonetheless).
9479950
Yeah, just because Puzzle was allowed to defend himself doesn't mean it was a fair trail. Their have been many show trails where the person was allowed to defend himself, or in the case of Luis the 16, given a lawyer. If the judgement is decided before the trail it is a show trail. Also even if it wasn't a show trail it was still an immoral scentence. Would you say that if a real Nation had a policy that those that crossed it's borders illegally with criminal intent got the death penalty was ok? No you would say that was wrong and goes too far and be happy to hear of the persons escape. (You may think the person should be punished but death?)
The issue, of course, is that that cuts both ways. Mind you, Daring does make a very compelling argument. One could even say that preserving the city would maintain the lesson of what not to do. Ever. But...
Well, there's more than enough of that debate in the comments already.
In any case, an obsidian Tree of Harmony that lulls those near it to sleep? Yeah, this isn't going to go well at all. I'd be concerned for our heroes if I didn't know they were telling this story to a rapt audience. Capital, on the other hand, he may well be dead.
9480009
As for why I think it's a show trail, they decided that no matter what Puzzle says, because he is a known liar they wont believe his testimony. If a convicted con-artist is on trail for a different crime the Judge can't say "Well because he's a known liar we'll just ignore his testimony." The prosecuter may try to convince the jury of that but since the Greensear is the Judge, prosecuter and jury they should not simply dismiss what Puzzle says because of his history of dishonesty. It is not a fair trail.
9479950
Yeah, but their nation sucks so obeying their laws is only a concern if you're required to by practicality. They have no moral standing.
It's a xenophobic, murderous theocracy.
9480923 Actually, the Dromands' willingness to cut Daring some slack argues against that, but even if they are an "xenophobic, murderous theocracy", they are apparently not expansionistic, so you only risk their wrath if you violate their borders (and, if I remember right, Daring & co. were a few days in before the patrol found them, so there is leeway to realize "oh horseapples, we're in Dromand lands" and get back out safely). So you have to intentionally go into the lands of the "xenophobic, murderous theocracy" with an known "Stay Out Or Else" policy because you either A) Thought you could sneak/fight/talk you're way past them anyway, or B) Assumed that they would never dare actually applies their laws to you for it to ever matter. You literally have to bring it on yourself on purpose.
9480009 Actually, illegally crossing the border with the intent to defile a sacred site and being part of a group that not only attacked the patrol that found them but actually fired first has been considered sufficient grounds for execution by multiple countries through the ages. It isn't just the trespassing that Puzzle and Alya were condemned for, they were part of a group, an armed, hostile force, that engaged in an attack against the Dromands' people and intended to attack their culture as well. At the bare minimum they are bandits, and one of the most common penalties for bandits throughout most of history was execution. They are also agents of a hostile foreign power, and spies are frequently executed as well. The same goes for defilers of sacred sites.
Yes, the Greenseer being Judge, Prosecutor and Jury bothers us and seems unfair, but it was also the rule for most of history. Yes, the fact that Alya and Puzzle bailed on Ephemera might be an argument for mercy, but the fact that they only fled after Ephemera started shooting at the Dromand weakens that argument, and does nothing to counter the fact that Ayla and Puzzle admitted that they intended to enter and loot Zhilius alongside Ephemera. So, yes, the Greenseer could have shown mercy in his judgement, but he had no real reason to do so.
Do I want Puzzle and Ayla to die (ignoring the fact that they obviously didn't)? No, but then I am biased in favor of them. Do I want Ephemera (or her mysterious Sponsor) to profit from Zhilius (or even get away)? No, because she (and by extension, her Sponsor) are actively evil. Do I think Daring is suffering complete moral myopia and very much in the wrong for how she has handled this whole "expedition" from the moment she thought of it? Yes. Do I want Daring to die (again, ignoring the obvious)? No, but I do wish some of that self-righteous, "my way/belief is the right way/belief and buck you if you dare to think otherwise" egotism would get knocked out of her. Do I think that Daring's arrogance and blind belief in her own superiority (and the superiority of her ways/beliefs/cultural norms) is as likely to release some ancient horror upon the world as Ephemera's active villainy? Yes, and, frankly, I'm surprised it hasn't already.
9481552
Ok one person being the Judge, Jury, and Prosecuter hasnt been true for most of history(unless you can give me concrete examples, because in ancient Rome, Ancient Greece, Renisance France, Dark Ages, it hasnt been true). However you convinced me Puzzle's sentence was justified, however I still think that Daring's thefts are justified.
9481894 Eh, we're probably just referencing different information regarding what has passed for "court of law" over the ages, so I'll bow to the amateur historian's knowledge over the amateur mythology-ist's (or whatever the heck I'd be called).
I'm sorry, I can't agree with you about Daring's thievery, however. She is flat out told in Chapter 12 that Zhiliust contains evil artifacts and magic that must be kept contained, and she doesn't care. At the beginning of Chapter 13 she dismisses the warnings of the Dromand because "it's only their word" (paraphrased and emphasis added) and also states that her need to know is more important. Furthermore, Daring has outright stated she fully intends to take any artifacts she "recovers" back to Equestria (Chpt 12, "We want to collect historical artifacts where we can and take them back home to put into museums in order to preserve history ...").
Preserving history is laudable, but the Dromand have a legitimate fear that if outsiders know about their past and have access to the Quinametzin's artifacts, that it would only cause the past to repeat itself. And Daring not only dismisses this concern out of hand but she all but says outright that the Dromand are too incompetent and stupid to be trusted with their own history and need her to do it for them. Also Daring's whole "you can't ignore the rest of the world" speech (again, Chapter 12) is a slightly more diplomatic way of saying "Screw what you want with your own country and culture, the rest of the world's (i.e., my) desires are more important!".
From where I'm sitting, Daring's desire to "preserve history" (regardless of what the actually holders/owners of that history have to say about it) begins and ends with how it might benefit Equestria, and that's all. (Seriously, how is putting Dromand artifacts in an Equestrian museum [assuming they ever go on display, instead of rotting in storage like most of a museum's collection does] going to benefit the Zebras, or Griffins, or Yaks? Most trans-oceanic travel in the Winning'verse is done by sail, so someone would have to spend weeks just crossing the ocean in order to ... visit a museum?)
9483368
I agree with you on her attitude, and the problem of her putting them in a Equestrian museum(though that benefits other nations in the fact they could travel to the museum so it is befitting them, but it would be better if she put it in a non-Equestrian museum and Equestrians had to travel to see the artifacts), however despite her attitude and even intentions I still think what she is doing is preserving history and it is the right thing to do(even if for the wrong reasons).
Tangent:
I can't say anything about the dangerous artifacts as those don't exist in the real world but I guess I an analogy would be if archaeologists of the future to find still active Nuclear Bombs and research them. If someone who is a good source(like the Dromaeds), said "This can destroy a city, and is Indestructible!"(I don't know how but its an analogy) then I would want the archaeologists to find a way to contain it the best way possible(but still take pictures and sketches at a safe distance), which may be with the locals but if its not then local sensibilities be dammed its a highly dangerous device. However because dark artifacts are less dangerous then Nukes I would say let the Dromaeds keep them in the highly defensible area they have, not try and find a better one as there is less at stake, and cultural sensibilities are important. So all this to say Daring should see the dark artifacts take pictures and get sketches and then leave. But non evil artifacts she should put in a museum.
9484301 Ah, you see Daring as Doing the Right Thing for the Wrong Reasons, I understand better now (Still don't agree, but much closer).
As for the Photo/Sketch thing, we are currently facing two main problems:
A) A photo/sketch/etc. would still show at least some of the runes and other construction of the artifacts, making it easier for other evil plotholes (looking at you Ephemera) to duplicate them.
B) Daring has made it clear that she does not consider the word/warning of the people actually guarding the artifacts (the Dromand) to be worth any consideration, so she is actually likely to take the "Mind-Controlling Spear of Berserker Rage and Soul Eating" back to Equestria (it being one of the more "interesting" looking artifacts), where it can be unleashed upon the populace.
9485215
Well I think overall she has the right reason of preserving history, her other reasons of self promotion and Equestrian promotion I find really wrong, and her attitude I have a major problem with. As for sketches would allow recreation, I don't know enough about the magic system in the Winnigverse but I would guess you can't get the entire enchantment of an object just by its physical appearance, I could be wrong though. As for Daring dismmising the Dromand's warnings, I would say that she is being a little Colonialist, she is not treating them as subpony but she is dismissing their beliefs as wrong and superstitious. However despite the fact she is doing that, which is wrong there are 2 points in her favor. A: She has heard this before and been fine afterwords so she may be thinking "Ok it's a deathtrap for everypony except me(and the ponys under my protection)" and B: I still think it is worth the disrespect for the preservation of history.
9486245 It wouldn't (hopefully) be all the runes and such, yes, but runes and oddities of construction would be one of the focuses of any sketches or photos (they're some of the more "interesting" parts, after all), which would give any Warlocks or other magically-inclined baddies A) hints and some ideas about Quinametzin dark magic, and warlocks with "a little information" about ancient dark magics is usually A Very Bad Thing. B) It would also reveal/confirm the existence of such magic and artifacts to warlocks (or just general greedy bastiches) that would then have a reason to pull an Ephemera and try to raid Zhiliust themselves.
If Daring had just gotten over her own arrogance and automatic assumption of superiority and cooperated with the Greenseer she would have gotten into Zhilust without having the Dromand out for her head, and she'd have a Greenseer along to actually tell her about the history and culture she's looking at instead of having to make "educated guesses" about it, and said Greenseer could tell her which artifacts were dangerous and needed to be kept contained, so Daring would know which ones to not investigate.
Yeah it would have majorly sucked for Puzzle and Alya, and Daring would have to actually have the patience to go away and come back later and actually go through the trials/testing/whatever the Greenseer wanted, but she would have actually gotten most of what she wanted without pissing off an entire nation. Hell, her willingness to abide by their laws and culture might have actually be a first step in improving Dromand relations with the rest of the world. Instead, she just proved all of the Dromands' prejudices and suspicions right.
9486753
I think it's pretty clear the Dromand would not have helped or taught Daring their history even if she was being respectful. They think it should all be forgotten not just the dark artifacts but everything about the Quinametzin. So that isn't an option if Daring wants to preserve the history.
9487092 We're getting down to a difference of interpretation here; Daring (and you) believe that history must be preserved to prevent the mistakes of the past being repeated. The dromand believe that this history must be forgotten/concealed to keep others from repeating the mistakes of their past.
As the only ones with even the faintest idea about how virulent/seductive the dark magics/artifacts in Zhiliust are are the dromand ... I'm inclined to trust them more.
Thank you for the debate.
9488534
You too it was fun and informative!
I definitely disagree with Daring. Thinking on it some more, I'm actually of the opinion that it'd probably be better to not only not recover artifacts from the City, but to actively destroy it. It's full of black magic and traps, Daring's position would be like going to an old WWI battlefield with lots of unexploded artillery shells that could go off if mishandled, and insisting they need to be put, still armed, into a museum. And her position is like blaming the locals for not properly maintaining the battlefield and considering it vandalism for trying to disarm what shells they can, and otherwise leaving the rest to rot.
Yes, and that is probably their intent. There might be a genuinely good reason for them to do so and Daring is to biased to consider it.
Its funny really... If the enemy (rivals/natives) apperance isnt soon than Puzzle might become a unwilling one... Also it would seem that even if they get a rest they cant really take time to recover before things go south. Cant see how the Bitch come with or without a huge pile of goons out of this alive
9492691
reminds me of a story: someone discovered that his father had found an unexplored shell, WELDED a metal bar onto the side, and USED IT AS A PLOW for YEARS!
The discussion in the comments is interesting to read to the main point is of course the different viewpoint of Daring and the Dromaed. One thing that I realized in this is that Daring has never experienced anything to suggest that completely ignoring the city and letting it fall apart is the right thing to do like the Dromaed believe is the case.
9478756
Honestly, I’d say those civil war statues themselves belong in Museums.