Sol 349
AMICITAS FLIGHT THREE – MISSION DAY 354
ARES III SOL 349
[08:07] HERMES: Good morning, Mark and everyone else. A bit of news: the vice-president won the election last night, so we have four more years of an administration firmly committed to the Mars mission. He mentioned you in his victory speech- all of you, not just Mark, as an example of the future possibilities awaiting mankind.
NASA says they’re sorry they didn’t get you a ballot, but they weren’t confident enough on the bandwidth so soon after the comms blackout to get you the legally required ballot file format. But between you, me, and Annie Montrose, I gather NASA was happier not taking a risk that your rescue might be even more politicized than it already is.
[08:34] WATNEY: No big deal. I didn’t exactly have much chance to closely examine the issues. But I better get the chance to vote twice in the next election.
[09:01] HERMES: You’re from Chicago, Mark. You vote at least twice in every election anyway.
[09:26] WATNEY: Hey! That’s a cruel and hurtful thing to say to a person who’s been horribly deprived of political speeches for over a year. Over a year with no bloviating, false promises, or toxic narcissism. A man could go mad.
[09:53] HERMES: A lot of words, but I don’t see you denying it, Mark.
[10:19] WATNEY: No, but it’s still hurtful.
“Election?” Cherry Berry asked. “You mean, like that time when Boss Hogg… well, whatever?”
“Don’t you have elections in Ponyland?” Mark asked. “I mean, not for princesses, because you don’t vote for princesses, but other offices?”
Cherry shrugged. “We have a… er… every once in a while every city and town in the land sends someone to the capital for a long meeting to discuss important stuff. There’s a lot of talking, and then everyone goes home and the princesses do what needs to be done. And we have mayors, but usually nobody wants the job, so whoever has it is stuck with it.”
“Nobody wants to be elected?” Mark asked.
“Mark, we don’t have Boss Hoggs in Ponyland,” Starlight Glimmer said. “Well, we kind of do, but not because they got elected. Mayors mainly do paperwork and perform ceremonies, and that’s about all. Only a pony with a government cutie mark would be interested.”
“What about the other races?” Mark asked.
“The griffons barely have a government at all,” Starlight said.
“Yeah,” Fireball rumbled. “It’s mostly people trying to find other people to give them a bribe.”
“It’s not that bad anymore!”
“Heh. Dragons have a lord. You do what she says, or else. But mostly we keep to ourselves. No cities, no services, no government.”
“That’s all silly stuff,” Dragonfly said. “We changelings have a nice stable democracy.”
Three ponies and a dragon all snorted. “Democracy??” Spitfire gasped. “You know what word mean?”
“Yes. I’m surprised that you do.”
“Picked it up from TV. But you have queen. Absolute ruler, power of life and death, sort of thing.”
“But it’s a democracy. If a queen gets too old, or when a daughter challenges for the throne, all changelings stand with one or the other. If the queen loses…”
“You’re Chrysalis’s daughter,” Mark pointed out. “Looking for a promotion when-“
“NO!!” Dragonfly jumped away from the worktable where she’d been sitting. “Being the queen is hard work! Dangerous work! And not one bit of fun! You’d have to be crazy to want to be queen!”
“Bing-bong,” Spitfire sang quietly.
“But all this ballots and office-holders and stuff?” Dragonfly said, waving a perforated hoof dismissively. “That’s just wasted time and effort. Why would people go to all that trouble for a thankless job any idiot could do?”
Mark opened his mouth, closed it, and muttered, “Maybe it’s just a human thing.”
“Earth needs more princesses,” Starlight Glimmer said.
“For the eighty-seventh time,” Mark sighed, “it does not.”
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Marks snarkyness never fails to suit.
For the eighty-eighth time, Mark, Earth can always use more pony princesses.
We'll have the best ponies.
There will be so much friendship you'll get tired of frienning.
Bigly.
// Sorry, it was a low-hanging fruit. And it's easy to joke about the guy when he's not your country's president.
Methinks Mark means eighty-seventh time that evening...
Government done RIGHT can't be done by just any idiot...but when has that stopped us?
Personally, I found the roman concept of the Tyrant interesting. In an emergency, they'd elect a Tyrant for the duration of the emergency, or a period of one year, whichever came first. At the end of that period, if the problem persisted, the Tyrant needed to run for reelection.
I suggest The Arthashastra, by Kautilya for an interesting take on governance. It is the practical manual to The Prince's theoretical treatise. Wikisource has a copy here, it's a good read, very pragmatic. I think Chrysalis would certainly enjoy it, Twilight would hate that she can't refute the thing, and Celestia? Depends on the universe.
It must be noted, that this is a Very old book, written in ancient India, so be sure to adjust your sociological expectations.
I just want to point out that the ponies live in a world with not as huge numbers as us here in real life, I mean for god damn we are at the 9 billion mark already by the time when this movie and book took place I can tell you it could be at 10 or 11 billion by now.
Plus would be funny as all hell when they good a good look at our government system and in the USA the great old Bill of Rights where everyone keeps on fighting the meaning of it and the right to own a firearm when people don't know that firearm help stop more crime then it is made.
also this song
9048603
that also bring something to mind.
If I remember right when a culture meet other new ideas are made, I have to wonder this what will happen when their world get the info of our world and how we run things would a few picks this idea of government system and use it or keep the way they are, if I remember right before ww1 the EU was all but monarchy and after ww1 revolution happen and almost everyone has gone with the USA of government
9048617
Also note, with a few, noteworthy, exceptions, the ponies' exposure to human nature has been rather curated. Mark has been on his best possible behavior, and NASA is by-the-by naturally orderly. If the internet is anything to go by, humans are far more chaotic than ponies, it's too bad Discord can't get to this universe, he'd love it here.
9048626
also to note that order & chaos is indeed one of the same as we seen with the human brain in one chp and many others.
If anything at this point and time there's almost no going back to us being us now the ponies will have more knowledge and different government system and economic system.
If anything lets be real here I hate communism from what it gives way to just look at the USSR and old china history and you know what I mean, But I can't help that the ponies with there magic and maybe other race can pull it off.
But as we seen in people life capitalism prooven most wild given that changeling was basically being like Elon Musk using there own money to make rockets and going to make there own space company
9048631
The biggest challenge to the ponies might just be how mercurial human thought can be. Ponies exist in a fairly narrow spectrum, philosophicaly speaking, humans.... don't. We seem to thrive on contradiction, deliberately obfuscating things for the sheer fun of it. Just look at our language! What sane species would ever invent a language like this? Half of it's stolen, half of it's made-up, it ignores its own grammar rules at the drop of a hat! It can be tonal, colloquial, contextual, and memetic!
Just give Twilight this, and tell her that it is both very important, and absolutely meaningless.
see? Everything in there has meaning, but it's all gibberish without the proper enlightenment. And of course, no one's ever going to actualy explain any of it.
9048650
ya i can see Twilight going down in tears of all the nut jobs we done over the years.
and boy if discord know of memes is both a joke and a greater meaning of it behind it i think his head will pop
9048665
It goes beyond that, It's the native language he never knew he had! Madness with purpose, chaos with intent, once he picks it up he'll be able to drive ponies up the wall just by talking.
Imagine if he suddenly made Twilight fluent! Ooh, she'd hate that!
"How do all these squares make a circle?! Noo! Do Not Want! Stoppit!"
I don't know if picking sides for a hostile takeover post-absolute monarchy is necessarily democratic.
9048523
They make covers you know.
And skimming through stuff, I can see SEVERAL things that would be right up your alley.
Cargoglide.com in one of the pictures shows a drawer-like glide out unit that would allow you to slide a veritable pallet's worth of merch out without a tweak.
Went ahead and brought up the site. Actually some nifty options here. Really, REALLY nifty options.
And then, a pickup plus an aerocap... perfect for cruising with a reduction in the drag from the open bed.
In this case, a good pickup, the one marked as Bondo/Brett Herndon's 'aerolid' would be perfect in combination with a cargoglide, no more stooping. (I'm drooling at the cargoglide Truck Wall Slide right now.)
Granted, I'm suspecting the cargoglide wall slide would be a pretty penny, but the regular bed version might be something you can stack boxes on, then shove in without the bank breaking you. Assuming you could get your hands on a decent pickup truck with a high chassis.
2017-2020 Trump
2021-2024
2025-2028
2029-2032 (Person gets elected)
2033-2036 (Person gets reelected)
2037-2040 (Person's vice president gets elected)
Based on this, we can see that at least one president did not serve for two terms between now and 2036. (I've got some hopes one which one...)
For those who've read CSP:
Ouch. Wonder how Dragonfly will take it when Queen Chrysalis tells Dragonfly that she's the only changeling intelligent enough to succeed her as queen...
9048754
Judging by the Twitter I bet it will be Jaden Smith.
9048679
ok i will pay good money to see Twilight los her shit seeing that happen
9048693
Look at France.
They killed the king (plus over 9000 others, French are passionate), passed a democratic election and got themselves an emperor.
9048774
I think to be labeled a democracy you have to pass more than one election in between absolute rulers.
9048774
You know. I never figured out what the difference was between an Emperor and a King. Seemed to similar to just have the separate names for them.
9048679
wait a min speacking of dragon ball....
oh god just think of the drug trade is word got out, i mean my god something tell me in there word drugs are easy as candy
“That’s all silly stuff,” Dragonfly said. “We changelings have a nice stable democracy.”
“Ankh-Morpork had dallied with many forms of government and had ended up with that form of democracy known as One Man, One Vote. The Patrician was the Man; he had the Vote.”
9048788
If we go back far enough, the term king was used for the ruler of a nation and the term emperor was used for the ruler of multiple nations.
As time went on, kings also began to rule multiple nations and the difference between the two words faded into near-uselessness. Nowadays, it'd be pretty much just based on what you call your territory. You call your lands a kingdom? You're a king. You call your lands an empire? You're an emperor.
9048788
Ego.
King: Thinks God put them in charge.
Emperor: Thinks they're God.
9048845
that is very true in history just look at the Kans for one..... man that guy really knows how to make kids.
but also what you think of the idea that given they will share knowledge of there world and if ponies and others see the system of check and balance we have in the USA what would they say about you and i
Ah. Enlightened Democracy. Still no good but weve tried everything else so far.
Technocracy. Human force progammed AIs give humans the answers they want to hear to do whatever they want to those lesser than them.
Petocracy. AIs run the show by making humans think they run the show. Violence erupts as the violent demand the right to brutalise others.
And due to social media, the call returns to declare,
Pi is Dejure 4.
http://www.askamathematician.com/2011/01/q-%CF%80-4/
9048784
But it was fun tho...
9048914
I mean, it was a good attempt. Not the worst try at democracy.
Speaking as an Englishman I must respectfully disagree with Mark’s statement. One can never have too much royalty.
...well, except when specific royals need shortening by a head but that is a strictly case-by-case basis.
9048898
"Earth needs more princesses."
To be fair to the ponies, they do have a near-utopian society thanks to said princesses, however experience both recent and old have taught us humans that just because a government works for one society doesn't mean it'll work for all of them.
9048924
The French sharply disagree.
9048932
Yup like how my family before i was born their home country Laos its still a red state that did everything right unlike the USSR fucked up, its too bad its one huge land mine now
9048674
same thing again
9048971
Yes.
Call Pinkie Pie, I need a party ASAP.
9048932
I mean, I'm sure an Equestrian style benevolent monarchy would work fine for us, if not for the fact that we lack the most critical component that makes the Equestrian one work out - a bunch of immortals to sit on the throne.
The problem with monarchies - even benevolent ones ran by enlightened individuals focused on the well-being of their subjects - is that eventually said leader is going to grow old. They are going to slow down, their mind will become less sharp if not outright senile, the control they can exert personally will slip and eventually they will die.
And there is no guarantee that the heir to the throne is going to be just as morally upright - or even just as skilled at statecraft, even if they are just as benevolent, as the old monarch. Or that some other fact6ion won't make a stab for the throne, or that a disgruntled sibling won't go for a coup, or something. Times of succession can be pretty volatile in monarchies because the lure of pow er is great.
And even if it goes smoothly there is the issue of the new and inexperienced monarch having to live up to the performance of the previous one without a dip in living and economic standards, which could cause grumbling and unrest and uncertainty in the populace. Enlightened, benevolent monarchy is probably the best type of government to live under - but it's probably not sustainable and liable to fall apart when your one-in-a-million ideal monarch finally kicks the bucket.
Equestria circumvents all of these issues by having a bunch of immortal alicorns on the throne. There are no succession issues, because the immortal rulers don't need anyone to succeed them. There is no loss of efficiency due to old age and deteriorating minds - the opposite if anything, because the longer the alicorns rule the better at it they become because of the constantly accumulating experience. There are no incentives for short term benefits at the expense of the future, because that's the bed you are going to be lying in for the foreseeable eternity. They can make and personally oversee the execustions of plans and projects hundreds of years in the making. They offer a sense of stability and rallying point line nothing else in history, as they were there watching over the country when your grandfather was born and will be there when your grandchildren will be put to rest.
So ... yeah. When Cherry says that Earth needs more Princesses, what she actually means is that Earth needs more immortal and benevolent leaders (the terms are honestly kinda interchangeable for Equestrians, while Mark wouldn't really have the same immediate cultural connection between those words and probably imagines something completely different upon hearing the term "princess"). She's probably not wrong, but you work with what you have - and unfortunately Earth is kinda short in the well-meaning immortal statesman department and there is not a whole lot anyone can do about it
9048758
Dragonfly will try to run. Because Chrysalis's next words will be "Avada Kedavra".
I wonder what was her position in "Our Town" (she doesn't seem to have government cutie mark)
9049064
Well it's important to remember that Equestria only has immortal rulers because of the circumstances at the time led to such a rulership to be accepted in the first place. Maybe if the various human societies grew up with immortal rulers during the age of kings and queens we'd be happy with them too, but if you try to introduce immortal rulers now? You'd probably end up getting shouted down for trying to introduce a dictatorship.
I mean heck, there's plenty of people who are calling Equestria a dictatorship, and I've read more than one fic where humans scoff at the primitive notion of a monarchy and refuse to show Celestia or Luna any respect for their position. And that's coming from the fandom. People who would actually see their governments replaced with immortal, and thus permanent, rulers? I predict riots in the street.
Just look at the mess in Iraq when America tried to form a new, more American-inspired government to stabilize the country. It just didn't take, and that one wasn't even an immortal monarchy.
9049091
That town looked small enough and isolated enough not to bother with paperwork. She was more of a mini-Princess there: an absolute ruler whose word is law.
9048579
Speaking of which, Flurry is still free right? Is not like Cadence needs a successor for the Crystal Empire.
One has to wonder how the other party handled the Mars issue. Probably as vaguely as possible.
In any case, it's a bit of a shame they're not reading the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy trilogy (all five books of it.) Dragonfly would probably approve of the true ruler of the galaxy.
9049103
Agreed, I don't think trying to introduce an immortal monarchy on Earth now (though that kinda depends on the nation, but let's talk western countries here primarily) would go over all too well, because of hundreds of years of cultural inertia and the generally negative image many a monarch has left in Earth's history; it would take a few generations at the least for such a change to be accepted, assuming it could be done at all on a reasonable timeframe (Like you said, even her on fimfic many a people become borderline irrational when you mention democracy and monarchy in the same sentence
).
And this once again goes to show that we are dealing with an actual alien society here, who are going to have a completely different view - perhaps vehemently so - on certain issues due to completely different societal experiences as the nations formed and evolved in to their modern forms, even if by and large the morals seem to align between us and the ponies.
For many of us Westerners, even Democracy is considered shit - just less shitty than any of the government forms that came before it, including monarchies. To your average Equestrian though such talk would probably make it seem like you have a few screws loose, because to them the coming of the alicorns and establishment of their long standing rulership over Equestria is probably one of the best and most celebrated events in the history of ponykind because of how good it all turned out to be.
---
All in all, it would probably be for everyone's best interests to avoid the topics of politics, as per usual
I'm sure that being ruled by an immortal and very powerful (physically) princess Steel would be great, right? Right?
If nothing else, the moon would have a sizeable population...
9049103
9049131
as we can both see the ponies and most people see a problem democracy, the truth is a true democracy is mob rule and is very deadly at times (just look at the 1940s and 50s and you know what i mean) the USA and many others that are in use right now are Republican where political groups have power and have the power to overtake them.
I think the USA is the clear use of this with each state having no power over each other and make there own laws and their own needs to the people living in those states.
The more people you have in your state the more political power you have..... why you think the people that start a riot over so call "hate speech" and get away with it
9049307
Well yes an no, part of the problem with the US's system is that it has a 'first past the post' system, where you don't count total votes but rather count the votes for the state and then declare the winner of that vote to have 'won the state,' which means that if your state votes predominantly democrat and you vote republican, you''re virtually guaranteed to lose and your vote just vanishes into the aether. This inherently encourages a two party system, which in turn encourages polarization.
Meanwhile countries like my own Netherlands count every vote and have that determine how many seats parties win. This allows people to vote for parties with less fear their vote doesn't count. Of course no democracy is without downsides as having many different parties with different views has its own habit of slowing the actual governing part of the government down to a halt with endless debate and discussions.
Like we said earlier, no system of government is perfectly suited for everyone. People just have to find the way that works best for their nation.
9048754
Trumps going to get re-elected, mark my words. There hasn't been a single term president in decades.
9048603
its Dictator not Tyrant but yeah the idea of "move aside i'l solve this" was pretty good and they NEVER had a guy go rouge with the power every dictator gave the power back after crisis time
In this timeline? I'm with the recovering dictatrix.
9049434
The Roman republic had no problems with Dictators for over 400 years. Lets see if the USA can even last 300 years see you in 2076.