AMICITAS FLIGHT THREE – MISSION DAY 320
ARES III SOL 316
[08:35] SYSTEM: ERROR - Signal Corruption Exceeds Recovery Threshold – Unable to Display
[09:36] SYSTEM: ERROR - Signal Corruption Exceeds Recovery Threshold – Unable to Display
[10:37] SYSTEM: ERROR - Signal Corruption Exceeds Recovery Threshold – Unable to Display
[11:38] JPL: Yesterday’s message about magic resistance received. Today’s AOK message received by Morse. All looks well from here.
AMICITAS FLIGHT THREE – MISSION DAY 321
ARES III SOL 317
[08:35] SYSTEM: ERROR - Signal Corruption Exceeds Recovery Threshold – Unable to Display
[09:36] SYSTEM: ERROR - Signal Corruption Exceeds Recovery Threshold – Unable to Display
[10:37] JPL: Today’s AOK message received. No changes here.
They allowed Mark to read the entire chapter this time. None of them- the ponies, Fireball, not even Dragonfly- could bring themselves to take a turn. They listened from the beginning, as the Lord of the Nazgul left the smashed gate of Minas Tirith, to the end, and Mark’s sonorous, rhythmic chanting of the list of the dead.
Dragonfly felt her own sadness, and that of the ponies, and even of Fireball, who normally had no real problem with the violence and death in human stories. She was shocked that Mark didn’t feel the same way; to him this was just a story.
She was more shocked that she was shocked herself.
After waiting a minute for the ponies to volunteer their usual post-reading comments, and getting choked silence and a couple of sniffles from Starlight Glimmer, Mark said, “For most of his adult life the writer was a professor of linguistics and ancient literature. He specialized in the writings of his ancestors from a thousand years before- what little survived, that is. And most of it was like the chant at the end there, celebrating glorious death in battle and then mourning the fallen.”
“Who- could- cel-e-brate- death- in- battle?” The sentence obviously took every ounce of concentration Spitfire could muster, but every word came out like a punch to the gut.
“My ancestors,” Mark said. “And Tolkien’s. He based the Rohirrim on a people called the Anglo-Saxons. They eventually became the core of the nation called England. And my family is descended from English settlers. And the Anglo-Saxons practically worshipped war. In fact, they were part of a greater culture that taught that the only honorable death was in battle. If you died from disease or old age, then you would be forced to join the forces of evil in the Last Battle at the end of the universe.”
“That,” Fireball said with authority, “is messed up.”
“The Battle of Five Armies wasn’t this bad. Helm's Deep wasn't this bad. Even the Battle of Hogwarts wasn’t this bad,” Cherry Berry added.
“And he wrote it this way because he liked war?” Dragonfly asked.
“No. Very much the opposite,” Mark said. “He was writing to create a myth like the ones he studied, but he also wanted to make the war as terrible and disgusting as he could at the time. You see, when he was a young man- about half my age- there was a great war, in which countries from all over the world took part. Tolkien’s schoolmates and himself all volunteered for the war. And Tolkien saw horrible things, and then was wounded- I don’t remember how, but he spent over a year in a hospital recovering. And out of all his schoolmates, he was the only survivor.”
The choked silence after this revelation lay thick enough to suffocate the farm, or so it seemed to Dragonfly. She managed to volunteer, “You know, when we were thrown hundreds of kilometers back into the Badlands by the power of love, it always surprised us a little that none of us actually died. We lost a few deserters, and a few of us had broken bones or wings from impact, but no death. And of course we took care not to kill any ponies. That would have been wasteful.” She raised her hooves and waved them at the computer Mark had been reading from. “But this? This?? All those men. And even the orcs. How many of them chose to be there? And how many had a whip at their back?”
“She has a point,” Starlight said. “No species is all evil. Though Dragonfly makes us wonder sometimes.”
“Hey! I’m working on it! Has Fluttershy overcome her fear of crowds yet?”
“Before this goes any further,” Mark said, “I’ll point out that Tolkien was dinged by future generations about the whole idea of races being inherently evil. A lot of authors even wrote books specifically to create orcs or goblins or whatever who weren’t all murderous backstabbing bastards. But to put things in context… well, remember my explanation of Sanford and Son? That show was made twenty years after these books were published. And Tolkien was almost sixty years old at that time. So he came from a generation with… hm, let’s say blind spots.”
“I still say your species needs some immortal princesses,” Starlight muttered in response.
“I want to talk about Eowyn for a minute,” Cherry Berry broke in. “She was Dernhelm all this time? She chose to ride into battle? She deliberately chose to do that?? Why?”
Mark considered this. “Well, it’s explained a bit in the book,” he said, “but you wouldn’t get the cultural parts. Put it this way. First, she was a noble of Rohan. But since the Rohirrim are a warrior culture- and one in which warrior is a males-only job-“
This got a snort out of Spitfire big enough for a horse.
“-yes, I know, but that’s how it was in my culture for about two thousand years,” Mark said. “Her brothers and other kinsmen- emphasis on men- got to ride out and do great deeds and be remembered. She got to stay home and watch her uncle go senile under Wormtongue’s spell. When she died, Eowyn wouldn’t even get her name on a tombstone unless two men fought a civil war to marry her. But she wanted to be great, just like them. Especially since, as it seemed at the time, their people and everything else good in the world was about to go under.”
“Messed. Up,” Fireball repeated.
“No, not messed up,” Dragonfly said. “This is just like changelings.”
“Really?” Mark asked. “How’s that?”
“In the hive the elites become infiltrators,” Dragonfly said. “Not every changeling can go and really blend in with ponies, after all- only the smartest and sneakiest. I just barely made it, and only because I was fast enough to be a courier. Sure, you need bugs to do the other jobs- guarding, taking care of the larva, maintaining the hive, and all that- but there was always this feeling that you weren’t a real changeling if you weren’t out there stealing love from ponies.”
“I’m pretty sure,” Starlight said, “that if Rohan was made up of love-eating insect people, Mr. Tolkien would have dropped a hint about it by now.”
“It’s not a perfect comparison,” Dragonfly said. “But think about what it’s like to be raised as one of the top changelings, strong, smart, good at disguises and voices, and then being told you have to stay home and take care of a senile queen or defend the old drones and larvae while everyone else goes off to crash a wedding. I know I’d find a way to go on the raid if I thought I could get away with it.
“And Eowyn? She’s one of… lemme count… yes, three- ONLY THREE! Three female characters with an actual NAME in this whole story!” She paused. “Wait, no, four, I keep forgetting Bilbo’s cousin-in-law, what’s her name. But anyway it’s obvious she wants to do something important, something people will remember, and nobody will let her! Nobody will give her a chance!” She turned to Cherry and said, “And I know you understand that one, boss!” She pointed to one of her own wings, which didn’t look as shriveled as they had when she first came out of the cocoon, for emphasis.
Cherry nodded. “So she went to war,” she said, a tear running down her muzzle. “Poor girl. She’s going to die in the hospital, isn’t she?”
“Now we’re getting into spoilers,” Mark warned.
“I knew it! She IS going to die!”
Dragonfly decided to shut this down before their commander went into soppy romantic pony hysterics. “Nah, no way,” she said, making her tone as callous as possible. “I bet she’s stuck in a hospital bed next to one of the wounded soldiers- maybe that Faramir guy, the writer sure played him up- and they’ll spend time together and fall in love, because that’s what people in a hospital do.”
It worked. Cherry’s crying jag aborted mid-launch, as the pink earth pony stared at the changeling in total disbelief. “What?” she asked. “Where did you come up with a… a… a stupid-stupid idea like that?”
“From my queen’s collection of bad romance paperbacks,” Dragonfly replied. “When we get home, don’t tell her I stole them.”
Not that Dragonfly believed a word of her own proposal. No, she figured Eowyn was done for, and there’d be a tragic bedside scene in the next chapter or two as she faded from life. That seemed the properly melodramatic boo-hiss-war thing to do.
After all, if Remus Lupin and Nymphadora Tonks didn’t get their happy-ever-after, in a book series written for little kids, why should this war-obsessed suicidal nut?
“But it can’t be Faramir,” Starlight pointed out. “Isn’t he dying? Isn’t Denethor about to cremate him?”
“What is-“
“Burn to ashes!”
“Hey, no need be personal!”
Mark interrupted before misunderstandings could escalate. “We get back to Pippin next chapter,” he said. “And I think that’s a good place to stop, suit up, and head back to the Hab for lunch.”
AMICITAS FLIGHT THREE – MISSION DAY 322
ARES III SOL 318
[08:26] SYSTEM: ERROR - Signal Corruption Exceeds Recovery Threshold – Unable to Display
[09:27] SYSTEM: ERROR - Signal Corruption Exceeds Recovery Threshold – Unable to Display
[10:28] SYSTEM: ERROR - Signal Corruption Exceeds Recovery Threshold – Unable to Display
[10:42] SYSTEM: ERROR – Loss of Signal – Probe in Acquisition Mode
[10:48] SYSTEM: Signal Acquisition – Chat Restored
[10:50] SYSTEM: ERROR – Loss of Signal – Probe in Acquisition Mode
[11:00] SYSTEM: Session Timeout (LOS Error, Reacquisition Failure 600 seconds)
Think they're called Harlequine novels?
If he really wants to mess them up on storytelling/real world social and racial prejudices he should go to Lovecraft next.
Then again he's trying to keep their spirits up...
I am genuinely curious how they will/would react to reading of Gollums final fate. will they/would they pity him?
9013959 In the book there's a whole scene on Hermes, post-Purnell Maneuver, which refers to several shipboard breakdowns the crew can't fix. One such (cooling system malfunction) makes Watney's and Martinez's bunks uninhabitable. Another (cooling vanes tarnishing) is slowly reducing the power from the reactor that drives the VASIMR engines. There are some things they do fix, but other things they mention that can only be fixed by the orbital shipyard crew during refit.
9014065
There's a good chance that with all the magic, there are Lovecraftian (or similar) creatures that pop up in Equestria from time to time. Magical summoning? Freak spell accident? Discord got bored and there's a thing that shouldn't exist over there?
Granted, that would cover the 'wierd as shit' part of it, and less the total hopelessness and insignificance of you and your world, so his works could be novel (and still pretty horrifying to the Equestrians).
Its a good thing theyre reading the book and not watching the movie.
You know, Tolkien himself also had a lot of problems with the idea of an inherently evil race, it was something he thought of for many years. I think in the end he stuck with it in the story because of the fact that he was writing like those ancient stories that inspired him.
9014065
A good deal of Lovecraft's works don't touch upon his political viewpoints or his understanding of ethnic groups, but lets all pretend that people born without a lot of the social and medical knowledge we take for granted where all horrible because they don't hold the same morality that we do, I am sure that our current morality will stand the test of time of course no way things we do and say could be wrong at all.
As for the jab at Tolkien in this chapter, bit unwarranted I think.
.... Are those crystals about to start talking to Pathfinder?
It's been eons since i read those books.
oh, that made me think of a silly story:
https://www.fimfiction.net/story/9135/a-slice-of-life
in that story, Luna and the palace staff force Celestia to go on a diet!
Stiiiiiiill waiting for Ponies Read Reaper Man. It's just the right dose of dark encouragement and zany humor.
9014128
Good theory.
maybe its time to tell them about the World Wars soon?
Yeah, it's true. But despite the similarities to earth Horses and some fan theories on Ponies, the show has made it extremely clear, that with the exception of the alicorns being an all female sub-species, Ponies are pretty much the same as humans in terms of male-female ratios.
Think about it. With the exception of the lesbian couples, specifically Lyra-Bon Bon and Octavia-Vynil, all other couples in Equestria follow Human conventions of one male to one female. Marriage in Equestria seems to indicate that indeed the ratio of Males and Females is very close to 1-1, which is not unlike Humans, which is about 1.3-1 females to males.
Considering that Equestria is a very benevolent matriarchy it seems very weird for ponies that human females are not the equals of their male counterparts, where in Equestria, with the exception of the Princesses, there is no apparent stygma or gender segregation in any known field. The show specifically meant for little girls does over-emphasize females, but it very cleverly and intelligently introduces us to males in high positions of authority. Known examples, include but are not limited to Fancy Pants (most likely the most influential pony in Equestrian politics outside of the Princesses themselves) , Hoity Toity (Renown in all Equestria as one of the highest authorities in fashion), The Duke of Maretonia and so on and so forth.
9014166
I think you forgot to press the >> to direct your reply to whoever it is you're talking to.
Also, 1.3:1 would be on the extreme end. There is no country on Earth (with a statistically significant population) with a ratio that high in either direction; even China is nowhere near that (with about 1.16:1 males to females).
The real ratio is about 1.07 male:1 female at birth, and 1.01:1 once everyone is counted (remove countries where parents are more selective, such as China, and the overall ratio probably skews slightly female).
9014194
I was pulling the numbers from my head. Thanks for the clarification.
My only point though was that Equestria is very similar in male-to-female ratio to Humanity and no weird skewed herd like ratio of 3 or 4 to 1 as might be implied by the ponies in the last chapter or as is very popular in the fandom.
9014214
On the other hand, a direct observation of every pony seen on the show does show a roughly 1.3:1 female:male pony ratio. https://derpicdn.net/img/view/2017/3/23/1394230__safe_analysis_chart_charts+and+graphs_math_pie+chart_population_statistics.png
So I guess we could say your numbers were just the wrong way around. These numbers are biased of course by every major character and almost all secondary (pony) characters being female.
Starlight is made of sass.
I like her.
OH GOD!!!!! if we talk about world wars then they will have to learn the worst of the worst of humans...... to the point I almost wanted to call them a monster.
Mark give a dark history of Hitler, Stalin...... They're not getting sleep if he tells them that making somber looking like a schoolyard bully
9014065
just give them a history book and they see how everything is so mess up
9014065
you know the funny thing is by all accounts of people who knew lovecraft, well he used both racist and sexist terms in his writings, he was a remarkably friendly person and known to keep company with people of all races and genders. sometimes you need to take an actual look at the person you know.
Tolkien actually didn't like having the orc's be inherently evil either: it went against his beliefs as a Catholic. So he had the conundrum: God (Eru) won't let creatures be created with evil souls, but the orcs clearly HAVE souls because they aren't just mindless extensions of Sauron's will.
He resolved that by saying that Sauron is actually spending a great deal of power driving the orcs insane. All that rage the orcs feel, where they constantly fight and will happily kill each other if they can't get anything else? They're all under Sauron's spell. When Frodo says that that is the spirit of Mordor it's very nearly literal. And this is why, when Sauron is defeated, the Orc army at the black gates INSTANTLY breaks. It's described as being like a hive losing a queen, and the rage that has been filling them their whole lives just vanishing.
On top of that, of course, is that all orcs have been at war with basically everyone for literally all of their history. Even when they aren't under Sauron's influence, their culture was formed for war and cruelty and literally everyone hates them. It's no wonder they're so messed up.
Meanwhile, the bit about how many wanted to be there, and what lies or threats brought them there, Frodo thinks exactly that when he sees a real battle for the first time with Faramir.
9014140
Oh hey, I remember that story!
Such a pity that it got dropped, Chef Ram Sea was my favorite side character.
As much as I get what this chapter was going for, it still felt very weird to have Mark the botanist lecturing two actual combat veterans on war.
I often listen to the martian original soundtrack when I read.
Unfortunately, since I am norwegian, that always leaves me with cheese in the back of my head.
Now run that through google translate, and guess why...
Lowering standards so female can be in the military puts s soldiers at risk. Although women were decoders in World War Two. A very important part of d day. look it it’s pretty cool
9014352
From the way you’re writing, it seems we could stand to bar a decent chunk of men as well.
9014125
The thing about orcs in Middle Earth is, they're not a real race. They're genetically engineered mutants created from tortured elves by Morgoth. Presumably he carefully bred any grace of empathy or compassion out of them.
9014127
That's an interesting thought: how western morality will evolve in the next century and what current "normal" behaviours and ethics will be look back with disgust.
Now tell them about WWII, that's gonna be fun!
Ah, so best bughorse queen partakes in some trashy romance novels, nice.
Stop trying to torrent porn, Mark.
9014222
They're also potentially affected by a selection bias as a side-effect of that.
For example, given that Ponyville is a farming community in a society that's technologically around the end of the 19th century and that stallions do appear to, on average, have a greater potential for physical strength than mares, it's entirely reasonable to assume that a non-trivial amount of that skew comes down to "we see fewer stallions because they're out working the fields and the main cast isn't".
...or, for that matter, that we see fewer stallions because, like our own, there's still some degree of "people tend to form peer groups skewed toward their own gender" and the main cast is female.
9014269
just safest way possible
9014489
Stallions generally not stronger than mares if we speak of domesticated Earth equines. Aldo there is no average, because it depends on breed. Mares have more endurance and comparable muscle strength... but in many breeds they have upsetted center of mass. It shifted toward croup, ehich makes them bad mounts and not so good for cart pulling if their skeleton built differently. Another reason why mare might be not ridden is that her, well, mare parts are too irritable. Anyway, they parcipiate in races and do not give much of handicap to stallion. In heavy lifter breeds I familiar with mare is probably stronger and even more massive than stallions. It might be different with western world breeds, I dunno.
Bias between genders toward female is unrelated to selection, because selection normally does not control the process of gender selection. It's genetically predefined in many non-single partner pair species with heat cycle, it enhances reproductivity. Humans are only species that have number of males peaking periodically and that males have dangerous level of anabolics produced by their glands.It is usually explained by our hybrid nature and fact that our genetic pool was damaged by several bottlenecks. Our females are only females in primate branch that have hemorrhages and lack of pheromone marker for their "month" time ( with total four species on Earth having same problems). By the way equine "one to four-five" percentage isn't as bad one, on Earth there are species with one to a dozen.
Now, there is no feral equines left except one rare, distant relative species, and there stallions are remarkable smaller than mares and mare acts like leader of the herd/family.
Late studies of DNA told us actually that they are descendants of same lineage as _every_ donesticated horse on planet, yet they aren't truly wild ones.
It would be the oposite. When there is millions of ponies and you live in secret, it would be dangerous not to kill.
Orcs were originaly elves, that were corrupted by Morgoth. They were made so that they would always be evil.
To be fair to Tolkien, the orcs were CREATED TO BE EVIL.
Basically, imagine what sort of monstrosities Hitler would have made had he been able to directly engineer the 'master race'. Heck, look at what he accomplished with the Hitler Youth without that ability! Or consider the Daleks.
No, the orcs are perfectly plausible just as they are. Engineered for bloodlust, brainwashed from the moment of inception by a god-like being which could directly influence their minds. They didn't have any possibility for turning out any other way.
Hmm... named female characters in LoTR...
Galadriel
Eowyn
Lobelia Sackville-Baggins
Arwen
And Sam's eventual wife Rose and daughter Eleanor.
There's also the mention of Frodo's mother Primula Brandybuck.
(The earth quakes as once more Alondro's perfection shames all of the cosmos with its failure to not be him.)
You're either perfect, or you're not me.
Mares have to fight in Equestria. There's only, like, 10 stallions in the entire country. And most of them are gay.
...
Well that's what the fanfics say!
9014538
While I appreciate all of that information, you completely missed my point.
I was saying that MLP gives the impression that "males, on average, have a greater potential for physical strength than females" is among the pile of traits of human civilization that got transposed onto MLP equines.
You misunderstand the term "selection bias".
In simpler terms, "what we're seeing is a skewed view of what is there because X, Y, and Z."
9014605
Show and comic kinda indicates opposite. All leading figures and most prominient figures are mares. Military is mare-based and have female officers,
if Wonderbolts is any indication. Apparently , Royal Guards are special case. In Crystal war universe of Cutie Mark Rematch, three mares lead army against Sombra.
I agree with statistical bias, misunderstood you, because selection bias is wide umbrella term that includes statistical sampling bias you meant, observer or susceptibility bias that is relevant, attrition bias that is relevant to humans' case and biases caused by processes (protopathic?), like clinical treatment or selection as breeding process included. Was hard to tell which you meant.
One thing about sampling bias: it's unapplicable to literary source in this case. What we were shown is what author wanted us to see. It's kind of weak antropomorphic bias, alright. But that's image of world we had to see and there is no ground for doubt in sampling process unless there is contradiction between known facts.
p.s. Funny enough that wiki uses term "selection effect" that is primarily related to breeding practice by etymology. That's not unique term, applicable to every science and activity.
It'd be nice.
Nothing to add to the Tolkien analysis. To my shame, I never got past Tom Bombadil. As for the signal loss, we'll have to see what horrific moments crop up during the total communication blackout.
9014652
Nightmare Moon would be hard to be dealt with.
9014375
Oh my did I strike a nerve
9014647
IN mlp case , it is simply a girls show. Thus mare out Number the stallions. Or is that too meta
9014542
If you look at the process shown The Orks and their kin are a Fungal infection designed toughen skin, increase strength, and reduce pain perception. Their were three types shown Goblins, which probably started out as captured Hobbits. Orcs, started out as humans. Then there were the Oruhai, which started out as Elves. Don't know if there were any infected Dwarves though....
9014352
It would work perfectly fine, actually. The trick is to lower standards for women so that they're actually equal to standards for men, rather than nominally equal.
Just for example, in civilian workplaces, women are nominally equal to men. Women are often promoted for their accomplishments, which sounds great until you hear that men are often promoted for their potential. That is, there is a real tendency that women have to do things before getting promoted, and men don't.
9015427 Hub Network cross-marketing promos.
9015074
plese elaborate, i dont recall that info from the main books or silmarillion