4.57 Billion Years Ago: The great blue-white star Tiamat is in her final hours. Four of her very special friends come to attend her.
One of those friends has deeper purposes in mind. And Tiamat may have a special destiny.
Chapters (2)
- Member Since 13th Oct, 2013
- offline last seen Apr 20th, 2021
Jordan179
I'm a long time science fiction and animation fan who stumbled into My Little Pony fandom and got caught -- I guess I'm a Brony Forever now.
Jordan179
Joined 13th Oct, 2013 ·
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Jordan179 · 5.3k words · 72 5 · 2.3k views
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Well... I never thought I would be intrigued by a romance between stars. FAVORED AND ANTICIPATING!
Very interesting and original! MOAR pls~<3
This astrophysicist highly approves. A few notes:
1. It is highly unlikely for a type II supernova to disrupt its companion. Even if the energy of the explosion is, say, 2 to 3 times the energy required to unbind the star, its companion will only receive a small fraction of that energy; most of it is quickly consumed to heat the debris and is then radiated away. The companion star might lose its outer layers, but its core (and probably its lifetime) would be mostly unaffected.
2. 1.4 solar masses (the Chandrasekhar mass) is the upper mass limit of a white dwarf, the core of a dying sun-like star; accretion beyond this limit causes a type 1a supernova. Stars between 0.3 - 8 solar masses will become red giants and, eventually, white dwarfs.
3. A nova is a non-destructive phenomenon in which a white dwarf accretes mass from a swollen companion and builds up a layer of hydrogen on its surface, which spontaneously fuses in a deflagration that does not disrupt the white dwarf. This cycle can repeat many times, and is known as a cataclysmic variable.
Other than that, major props for the level of detail and scientific accuracy, including the appropriate relation between mass and lifetime. I really love this concept of
Fusion and Gravityproto Rarity and Spike spending a lifetime as sentient stars, and I can't wait to see where this goes.(BTW, if you want or need any clarification on space stuff, I'm actually a 2nd-year astrophysics grad student, and I'd be happy to help. If not, that's cool too, as long as the writing is good -- which yours always is.)
This is incredibly adorable in a flaming-balls-of-doom sort of way, and I can't wait to see what you do with this.
8601045
I am not surprised that I got some of the astrophysics wrong.
Actually, Tiamat and Barba contain Sparks that will become part of Rarity and Spike. Fusion and Gravity and Dissonance have yet to make (personal, rather than physical) appearances.
8601068
Ohhh, Barba = Spike. Barbs, spikes. I get it.
8601045
My guess is that this is assuming there is an as-yet-undiscovered way to use neutrinos drastically more efficiently than their apparent behavior. So what Tiamat will do is unleash a tremendous high-energy neutrino flux that will result in splitting neutrons in nuclei in Barba's core into protons and electrons. Since the nuclei are now so neutron-starved that protons boil off, you now suddenly get a tremendous increase in hydrogen in the core. After Tiamat's core becomes a black hole and stops flooding neutrinos, Barba's hydrogen cools enough to induce extremely rapid fusion, driving her to explode prematurely.
If we want to explain "magic" in Equestria and in EqG's pseudo-Earth, the energy must come from somewhere, and the neutrino flux seems like a least-implausible source if some mechanism exists to massively enhance their effective cross-sections.
Of course Rarity's soul would incarnate as a supergiant. It would settle for absolutely nothing less as a literal star. Aside from the intergalactic visibility, seeding a planetary system with her corpse would/will be the ultimate artistic statement... at least until she can perform such works without self-detonating. (Plus, the fact that Rarity can still find herself a social circle with which to gossip even as a naturally occurring fusion reactor is too perfect for words.)
Definitely looking forward to seeing the trio meet Tiamat as she and Barba pass on. I can only imagine what the other Bearers-to-be were in their previous incarnations, especially given all the different varieties of life as we don't know it.
8601341
If I'm reading Jordan's intentions right, she will, in a sense, be the mother of dragons. And of every other life form on Earth.
when I entered this I was kind of expecting this to be the star magically transformed into Equestria's sun, which being controlled by a living being and orbiting a planet is necessarily different than other stars
I imagine all five of Queen Tiamat's heads laughing at learning that Rarity was previous incarnated as a star who shared her name.
Then again, it could be that Queen Tiamat took the name herself, while she was still designing the dragon species (back when she thought intelligent was a waste of bio-mass), impressed at this star. Though it's interesting she snatched Barba's soul rather then Tiamat the Star's to be one of her children.
8601401
Here's the problem though: even if the nuclei and neutrons in Barba's core were all dissociated back into hydrogen, and then fused at the temperature and pressure of the triple-alpha process, that wouldn't be enough energy to unbind the star. As another example, consider the helium flash in red giant stars: the core is entirely composed of electron-degenerate helium, so when it ignites, the rate of energy release is, for a split second, similar to that of a type 1a supernova. The star does not unbind and explode because the pressure and gravity of the outer layers absorbs all that energy. The core would shine incredibly bright for a brief moment, then expand and cool until the star returned to hydrostatic equilibrium, and hydrogen fusion would proceed as normal. Remember, fusion rates have a very steep dependence on temperature, so the core is very quick to achieve equilibrium.
I agree that neutrinos are the least-implausible source of excess energy in this scenario, but there is one thing you've neglected to account for: the upper mass limit of neutrinos is << 1 eV, while the binding energy of a helium-4 nucleus is 28.3 MeV. Even with ultra-relativistic neutrinos, it would be nearly impossible for even one helium nucleus to unbind into hydrogen, let alone the entire core. There is a process by which nuclei in a massive star's core unbind into helium, but that occurs in an iron core as the precursor to a type II supernova, and is driven by high-energy gamma rays; this is known as photodisintegration.
Now, all that being said, this IS sci-fi, and very good sci-fi at that, so I'm willing to give it a pass. I just really like debating and nitpicking details, especially ones related to my field of study. I hope we can have more discussions like this in the future -- you really made me think about all this and look stuff up, and the best kind of debate is one in which both sides learn something.
I look forward to more thought-provoking discussions like this one as this story progresses. Until then, have a mustache.
A part of me is slightly disappointed that Tiamat’s partner wasn’t named Abzu.
Apart from that though, this is a really fantastic and creative concept and I’m definitely looking forward to seeing where it goes.
We are forged from the hearts of dead stars
8606465
Exactly. Both generally, and in a sense very specifically important to this tale.
I mean, yeah, I realize that the mind of a star would be far beyond our ken and such, which means that their lovemaking would be even more inscrutable, and yet... that was still pretty freaking hot, and not just thermally.
Also, loving
CelestiaFusion,LunaGravity, andDiscordDissonance already.8618734
I'm glad that I was able to describe the love of Barba and Tiamat in terms that were simultanously true to their stellar nature and able to convey their passion. I thought a lot about each part of it, with reference to astrophysics, though I took some license as I'm sure someone will point out.
I'm also glad that I was able to keep the Cosmic versions of my favorite divine trio in character.
Yes. Yes, yes, yes. This is good, this is very good indeed. I have just read a description of what is effectively sex between two stars, and understood it, both in terms of human intimacy of which I know little, and in terms of the plasma physics that I have studied for the past semester. Such a seamless blend of the human and the astrophysical, while still invoking a sense of awe and reverence, is assuredly a manifestation of your most admirable talent for speculative fiction. A thousand bravos for you, good sir.
A couple quick notes in case it matters (let me know if you want me to stop doing this):
1. Stars don't condense around heavy elements; if that were the case, the first stars could not have formed, as there was nothing then but hydrogen and helium. Stars form from dense cores of molecular gas that collapse under their own gravity. Heavy metals do play a role in cooling the gas with their many emission lines, enabling the formation of many small stars as opposed to a few large ones; perhaps this is what you had in mind.
2. All stars start out on the main sequence by definition. Supergiants are simply a later stage in the evolution of high-mass stars.
3. The age of the universe is currently estimated to be 13.8 billion years, not 14.7 billion.
4. Given her larger luminosity and physical radius, Tiamat is actually the less bound of the two stars, so any mass transfer would flow first from Tiamat to Barba. In general, supergiant stars have very low surface gravity compared to main sequence stars, so as they spiral inward, the supergiant would be the first to fill its Roche lobe and lose mass to its companion.
Other than that, I really love what you're doing with this story. I always enjoy Fusion, Gravity, Dissonance, and their Avatars in any form, and I can't wait to see what happens next.
Exquisite and fascinating. Most especially the idea that the galaxies are sapient. I think you've brought it up before, but it's still fascinating. More so for an entity whose cells are effectively thinking entities in and of themselves. (And I can only imagine what the Milky Way and the Andromeda galaxy are thinking as they careen towards one another in what to them seems like the equivalent of a car crash.)
In any case, definitely looking forward to seeing what the Concepts have to say to the lovers, especially given how the latter factor into Fusion's plans. After all, that's what she does: Take a bunch of basic elements and, by her strange alchemy, forge them into a greater whole. Though no one could call Tiamat or any of her future incarnations "basic" with any degree of sincerity.
Additional thought:
I have to wonder how Sol experiences during its time in the Finemares' toy cosmology. It's only a few millennia (hopefully,) so the star probably only feels it as a single abrupt yank. Still, that had to be disconcerting.
8619165
Fusion's being deliberately secretive, and covering for it with ambiguity.
Her Avatar Celestia does this too. "Make some friends," indeed.
8619376
It irritates her companions, too!
8619513
Fusion's the dominant one in that relationship. Gravity is brave, and Dissonance is rebellious, but both of them tend to orient their own selves and actions around her plans.
Part of the reason why Discord rebelled was that Dissonance was hoping to break this pattern in their post-Cataclysmic incarnations. It of course didn't work: Discord is now inevitably falling into Celestia's social orbit.
He just can't escape this.
Poor Chaos Concept.
Okay, this is different. This is the kind of Glorious Weirdness I wish more SF was composed of.
And talking about your list of stories about sapient stars, did you ever read a Golden Age tale by, I think, Jack Williamson? Born of the Sun was the title if I remember right. It was sort-of like this, but much 'pulpier'.
I am now imagining that at least part of the 'stellar song' radio telescopes pick up is just the kind of erotic conversation Tiamat and Barba had here. Hoo boy if the astronomers even 'translate' it!
And an odd question, but does anyone else notice that the normal 'upvote' button for this story isn't available, only the downvote?
The hottest of sex scenes...
Also, I think the "i" key on your keyboard is sticking. There's several "ii"s in there.
8620084
Yes. Jack Williamson did more than one story about sapient stars, too. His Reefs of Space series included that concept.
The earliest example of sapient stars of which I know dates back to Stapledon, but he definitely inspired other writers.
8620134
Yep. This keyboard is dying. Fixed the "ii" typos, thank you for mentioning it.
8620346
Okay ... I see where you're coming from. And I see why this would bother you, considering that this situation is -- especially from Barba's point of view -- in Human or Pony terms a romantic suicide pact.
Mind you, Human and Pony terms are not their own. Tiamat is going to die "soon" (in a few millennia, which are a matter of days by her standards) no matter what she does, short of one thing that she won't do which would in any case only extend her life at Barba's expense. And Barba, by choosing to die with Tiamat, will actually mingle their final fusion products into a coherent nebula and hence achieve the stellar equivalent of reproductive success.
The morals and goals of terminal spawners, which is what supergiant stars are in biological terms, are not precisely the same as the morals and goals of creatures like ourselves, who can breed many times and do not have to die to accomplish it. In this sense, Tiamat and Barba are more like salmon, or like single-celled organisms, than they are like Humans or Ponies.
But yes, I can see why the phrase bothers you.
8620103
One of the reasons why I picked Jethro Tull's "Astronomy," which makes a similar analogy on a human scale.
A fantastical and delightful chapter.
8601068
8601045
On a related note, there's a crackpot hypothesis by a physicist on how he thinks some stars may be not only sentient, but propelling themselves about:
https://www.centauri-dreams.org/2019/04/26/probing-parenago-a-dialogue-on-stellar-discontinuity/
9636303
That's daft. Everyone knows they're pushed by angels.
Sorry to see this never finished.
God bless you Jordan. Rest in peace.