• Published 17th Oct 2017
  • 9,009 Views, 327 Comments

As Long as You Both Shall Live - Trick Question



There's a reason wedding vows don't contain the word 'forever'.

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Comments ( 327 )

Well, that did indeed get dark.

Flurry isn't going to let you die Shining. You can't run from her.

How could Celestia say such a thing?

Forever IS a long time, I'm sure she's had more than her fair share of heartbreaks due to her lifespan.

wagging their rumps in a way that made him blush

Either we have a ShiningLight shipper or TSJ Shining somehow snuck in.

"And I don't want it to be fake, even if it's the only way to stay alive. Cadance is still my best friend, but we're just friends these days, and it's time to move on."

So sex with an alicorn makes you immortal huh? Twilight, you're up to bat!

I shouldn't be here listening to my sister's love life like some kind of sick pervert.

OHOHOHOHO the irony!

"Her job," Flurry Heart said dispassionately, pointing at her mother. Then she turned and walked away.

Ok, kinda hot, not gonna lie. Still rape though.

Comment posted by Pony_Person_123 deleted Oct 17th, 2017

8493842
She got shining armor drunk and slept with him.

Neat. Age doesn't always carry wisdom. I don't have anything witty to write.

There's justifications for all these actions they take and I can't fault 'em. But I do.

Well, that was depressing. I'm... not really sure how to respond. The act was horrible, but at the same time I can't really blame Flurry too much. She doesn't want her father to die, and is willing to do whatever it takes. Road to hell and good intentions and all that.

The story just kinda leaves me dead on the inside. Most other sad/dark stories evoke sympathy or sadness or other emotions, this one just feels kinda deadening, and a bit sickening. Not really sure how else to put it.

On a technical level I appreciated the writing. The plot was well executed with plenty of foreshadowing for the ending,

horizon #8 · Oct 17th, 2017 · · 1 ·

Well, that was … wow. Um. Wow. *flails for words* :rainbowderp:

… F*cked up. That's what it was, f*cked up. And I sincerely mean that as a compliment. Upvoted.

Anyway. I was a huge fan of the original story, which was at basically the perfect size for its content, and so I was curious to see how this was going to expand on it. This … isn't that. To your credit, I think some of the strongest content here is in the ways you go off in your own direction. (Though "I don't know anything anymore" was one of the greatest lines and still wrapped around the source story's core.)

The idea that it's specifically sex that provides immortality kinda raises more questions than it answers for me. And I'm not quite certain yet whether the creepiness I feel at the casualness with which the Mane Six are harem-ified is a point in the story's favor or not. I think on balance it feels a little too weird for me — the idea that it works via sex for the Princess of Love makes intuitive sense, but the implications not only about the Mane Six but also Celestia and Luna and Flurry suggest that immortality is basically some sort of benign STD passed on by alicorns, and I feel like that probably deserves more lampshading and/or exposition than it's getting (possibly more than would really be possible in a T-rated story).

Also, I can't believe I'm saying this, but I feel like this needs more. You're leaving off at the moment of maximum f*cked-upness — and don't get me wrong, that's a great place to end the story for maximum impact — but it also feels like there's a bigger story here in figuring out how everyone finds some sort of new normal after this gigantic trainwreck. Pony's big on forgiveness, redemption and second chances, and this is leaving off right at a point where all three are needed most.

Interesting. Would like to read more if this was were to be expanded. Will track on the off-chance it does.

I mean, you can’t present us with this change in family dynamics and expect us to be satiated. As 8493901 said, this needs more. Especially if we’re expected to care for Twilight’s confusion and Skyla’s Flurry’s anger.

8493878
There are, but we should delve deeper into them in order to appreciate the character’s actions.

This went from sad to dark in just four paragraphs.

Wow... Now that's a lot of emotion! I was most definitely immersed into the story up until it ended with Flurry Heart showing further disdain to her mother.

Depression is truly a monster. I've personally dealt with it for nearly 10 years now. It ruins so much and is so hard to see past when it is running so rampant within your mind.

This said I know how Shining Armor feels. He doesn't 'feel' anything. He is likely stuck in thought of how he cannot naturally live alongside of his wife and daughter. That's a tough situation to cope with as, unless he could ascend himself, it won't go away. Just like medicines the rejuvenation he gets can only do so much before he'd need more, and more, and more. Knowing his situation makes me pain for him along with Flurry who, truly, just wants to keep her dad alive and blames her mom for not feeling the same way.

Thanks for a real adventure in emotions. Well done.

wlam #12 · Oct 17th, 2017 · · 1 ·

I'm not sure how seriously I can take the idea that alicorns can bang you young again.

Why do you believe Shinning wouldn't love Cadance for eternity?

wlam #15 · Oct 17th, 2017 · · 6 ·

8494053
Because, as he says, he's a person, not a caricature or an ideal. People do not stay in love forever. Fantasies do.

8493901

... the creepiness I feel...

Excellent. :pinkiecrazy:

If you're disturbed by this, I seriously need to graduate you to Twilight's Secret Journal someday. :trollestia:

:pinkiecrazy: married her own father just so he wouldn’t die or was he poisoned

You know as.. okay I'm not touching that ending, but I am very curious about that depression. Given that it's surprisingly glossed over and the fact that they are willing to let him commit suicide just because he's depressed.

That was messed up. It made sense, but it was messed up.

8494059
You're right, I guess that might be an issue with an immortal couple.

This story was well-written, although it falls prey to the same thing most stories about love do. Love isn't just the swooning of a couple on their honeymoon, or the pitterpatter of your heart when you see someone. It's not just an emotion. It's a choice, it's something you work at, every single day of your marriage. After a while, there'll be times where that puppydog infatuation fades, that's normal. It's up to the couple then to make their relationship something worth loving again, and not just... walk away like Shining here is doing.

8494113
Oh, I misspelled his name, my bad :twilightblush:

wlam #23 · Oct 17th, 2017 · · 2 ·

8494132
I imagine it would be, really. I mean, how can you really feel the same about one person forever, no matter what it is you're feeling for them? I just can't see it as possible, particularly with divorce rates being what they are.

I'm kind of amazed by how many people seem to harshly disagree with that thought, though, going by the votes on my comment.

8494171 Well, most people who get divorced never really loved the person they married in the first place. Far more than half of marriages involve either impulse or money as motives. Those almost never last because they're built on already corrupted foundations.

Interestingly, most marriages that last beyond 25 years don't end in divorce.

If you get used to a person, you kind of tend to stick with them.

8494104 We should do that here in the USA!!

DECREASE THE SURPLUS POPULATION!

weekendnotes.com/images/scroogecrop.jpg

It's October. Time to put out the Christmas displays in the stores, right?

:trollestia:

I really could not take this story seriously. The title drew me in. Shining is depressed because having sex with an alicorn makes you stay young? Why does he have depression? Why does it all just come out of nowhere? One chapter and a few thousand words to make us believe Shining is just falling apart at the seams? Depression is a very serious issue, but this made it almost comedic. There is no showing it in this story, only telling, and then a bunch of arguing about the best way to keep ponies from banging.

The story is summed up as "Every time I have sex with my wife, it won't let me die. This makes me sad. Why can't she just let me die by not having sex with her?"

I mean... what?

wlam #27 · Oct 17th, 2017 · · 8 ·

8494183

Well, most people who get divorced never really loved the person they married in the first place.

That seems like a rather conceited blanket judgment, no offense. From what I've been told by couples that actually have been married that long, it's less about passionately being in love than about being comfortable and friends with each other. It's often said that marrying for love is more likely to end in divorce than any other reason, and pretty much everything I've seen bears that out.

Anyway, a story of angsty immortals, depression, forced intoxication, incest, and suicide...

Isn't this just the most cheerful fandom?

(Now you see why Alondro never bought into the 'love and friendship' BS everyone was spouting. He KNOWS what fandoms are REALLY like... since he's been a furry for 20 years... :fluttershbad: )

8494192 And that all depends on how one defines LOVE. Those lovey-dovey scenes from movies? That ain't love. You just illustrated a HUGE part of the problem. Everyone's relied on Hollywood to explain what love is... and I think we've recently had it proven that Hollywood has no right to teach anyone about anything.

wlam #30 · Oct 17th, 2017 · · 1 ·

8494197
Well, friendship is certainly a kind of love, it's just not romantic love. Still, it seems rather presumptuous to tell all couples who don't love each other the "right" way by your perception that they don't love each other at all.

8494199 So they end up getting divorced because of this short-lived hormone-driven infatuation no more lasting than a furry fan's obsession with Renamon porn.... oh wait... no, that sometimes DOES last for decades... huh. :applejackconfused:

wlam #32 · Oct 17th, 2017 · · 5 ·

8494220
All feelings are hormone-driven, you're in a position to know that. It's just not always the same ones.

I mean, I get you. You're right that a lot of young people marry hastily and for the wrong reasons, over a kind of hot love that tends to burn itself out quickly. Still, that doesn't make it any less love.

8494233
That sounds more like lust from where I'm sitting actually.

Lusted over each other rather then actual love.

8494113
You want this website: https://frinkiac.com
Put just about any Simpsons quote in, and you will get screenshots from when it was said.

wlam #35 · Oct 17th, 2017 · · 12 ·

8494240
Love without lust is an idealistic fantasy and really just as much Hollywood nonsense as the things that Alondro criticizes. Most relationships start as erotic love and there's nothing wrong with that - I certainly enjoy that part of it plenty.

Comment posted by Cobrawolf_Meiji2012 deleted Nov 20th, 2022

8494252
That's.. Not what I said at all. I said from the way you pointed it out it sounds like they just lusted over each other rather then truly loved. Which is not how good, or real relationships start from personal anecdotal experience.

wlam #38 · Oct 17th, 2017 · · 4 ·

8494261
Well, it kinda is what you said, because you're making the implicit distinction that there's some kind of "true love" that doesn't involve lust, or that having an intense but short-lived infatuation with each other can have no honest emotional component. It's a common perception, but honestly, as I've gotten older, I've also increasingly come to think of it as a very immature one. Of course there's the kind of "that chick is hot, I want to bang her brains out" kind of lust, but if a long-term relationship or even marriage comes from it, there is usually some kind of real emotional connection involved, at least to some degree.

8494266
This is acutely reminding me of the fact that I know Asexuals that have married, and that you've managed to invalidate them by such.

And no I was not in any way making that implicit as it seems you were just attempting to push words into my mouth, while at the same time trying to deride me as immature for making a point I didn't even make!

wlam #40 · Oct 17th, 2017 · · 11 ·

8494273
I recommend that you chill out now before this becomes a shouting match, because I'm definitely not in the mood to get into an indignation-fest over asexuality or whatever this evening. All I'm saying is that if you think that this kind of relationship must be only lust and doesn't involve love, it speaks of a somewhat idealized view of love on your side. That's all. Relax.

What people are missing is that they loved each other for 10 20 30 40 50 years. At that point most are too fragile to have much of a sex life, but they were still young, Shining only because of his wife. There is a big difference between a marriage of 30 years and one of 100 years, or longer, especially with youthful bodies. Heat doesn't act well when frozen.

8494281
It would be started from an Alondro post. I strictly disagree with your point on such an idea (and no I did not suggest this about Shining and Cadence's relationship, it was simply a thought on hastily 'hot' love.), but I agree to stop this discussion.


My main issue for this story is how Shining Armor was brought up as depressed but it seems like that was rather glossed over very quickly. There was mentions of couple's therapy and other issues for their "love life" but nothing when it comes to the very serious issue of someone's depression causing things to begin with and could be a very valid issue for what is causing their love life to cause issues. Depression being brought up with the concept of Shining Armor choosing to commit suicide as a result where one 'really' shouldn't be choosing to decide while in a morose state.

8494098
Flurry Heart got Shining Armor drunk and slept with him to keep him young.

I find myself very, very, very concerned with exactly what they've been teaching Flurry Heart about relationships.

And maybe just what they've been teaching her in general, since she apparently believes that Cadence's sole reason for existing is to keep Shining Armor alive. Notice that her entire argument is basically couched in the world existing for her convenience, and things should be the way she wants them to be, because that's the way she wants them to be: Shining Armor "shouldn't get a choice" because he means too much to her.

Twilight's not any better. Shining obviously only wants to stop extending his life because he's depressed, but if he just does exactly what she tells him to do and stops trying to make his own decisions about controlling his own life, he'd see that she's right and would do what she tells him to, because she knows better than he does.

Cadence is sort of accepting of his decisions, because even she is trying to control his life with regards to the best way to handle things, and he should get just one more extension because then he'll at least look his best for the ceremony. You know, when he's standing next to her and impacting how she looks to everyone else.

It's no wonder he wants out, and for that matter, if this is how most everyone is going to behave to anyone who's not immortal but "means so much to them," and especially considering Twilight, it's no wonder that Starlight and Sunburst skipped out on the timeline. Starlight knew.

SHE KNEW

Flurry: "Daddy's going to live forever. I incest."
Twilight: "Don't you mean...insist?"
Flurry: "No. Incest."

8494298

My main issue for this story is how Shining Armor was brought up as depressed but it seems like that was rather glossed over very quickly.

It is, at that. Still, this story is basically a situational snapshot and I imagine the whole discussion is old and rather more than played-out to the two people primarily concerned by it, so it made sense in context that neither would feel like chewing it all over yet again.

8494320
This is quite on-the-nose about why I think the story needs more than it currently has. There are some major psychological dynamics here that need healing a hell of a lot more than the relationship itself.

8494252
You realize that you can love someone without desiring to have sex with them and such, don't you?

8494368
I actually had that thought as well, but it's brought up in several cases and then very quickly shot down as if it's a non-issue.

"I don't need to live forever. Nopony does, except for alicorns," said Shining Armor.

Twilight shook her head. "BBBFF, you're only saying that because you're suffering from major depression!" she said. "We need to get you a second opinion from a good psychiatrist. This whole thing is—it's just insane."

This one makes it sound like they haven't even gone to a psychiatrist at all, and that weird idea that nopony needs to live forever except for Alicorns.

"Fine, I'm chronically depressed. Happens to half the population, practically,"

"What? No. For the last time, Cadance, I'm not attracted to her. Moon, I'm not attracted to anypony anymore," he said. "I don't know if it's the depression, or what."

None of this sounds.. Psychologically healthy. Of course Twilight is panicking so her odd comments are typically from her usual "Oh god this is bad" statements and Flurry.. I don't even know, she's 98 and I honestly forgot that till I re-read it as she sounds like a teenager and is just blaming everything on Cadence for.. I really don't know, it honest to god sounds like teenage angst.

wlam #50 · Oct 17th, 2017 · · 1 ·

8494381
Sure, I'm perfectly aware, no offense to you and other asexuals intended. There are lots of ways to love someone. I'm not saying you can't, I'm just saying it's kind judgmental so say that a young, very physical relationship isn't "real love" just on the basis that they tend to burn themselves out quickly. That's what I mean when I say idealization. There is still a bit of a prevailing attitude in society that "real love" is a platonic kind of love, with sex as an adjunct that's best not mentioned.

8494385
Hmmm. You do have a point there. I guess I read it more as Shiny and Cadence trying to keep control of the situation, but it is treated with a bit of a cavalier attitude.

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