Well, a happy post-American Thanksgiving weekend to you too, Jest! Hasn't even been a month!

It had grown on her somewhat as time went on, but when you were surrounded by others with cool names like Night Stalker and Silent Step, Rainbow Dash stuck out like a black eye. “Why couldn't I have been named something cool, like Night Wing or Red Robin? Actually that second one kind of stinks.”

Oh Faust...Welp. I guess it was inevitable with batponies/thestrals that a few Batman character names would be used.

Celestia wiped the blood from her hoof onto Sunset’s flank and tsked. “Language young one. Now I will not repeat this again, in your own words, what happened to Twilight Sparkle?”

“You know very well what happened, you crazy bitch! I popped her heart with the spell you taught me.” The mare snarled, wishing as hard as possible that she could spit in the mare’s face but some latent command laced into her body made such an action impossible to follow through.

“You know very well that I did not teach you that spell. I allowed you to view the unaltered first telekinesis spell. It is you who used it for evil!”

“Evil? Celestia, I was trying to enable doctors to perform surgery without ever having to open a pony up! But all you saw was a way to kill and jumped to the stupid conclusion that I was—”

Ooh, getting a bit of ShimShim's backstory leading up to her being "put on ice". I like it, I like it! mOAR! please.

Wow

Hope twi kills celestia

8572011
The next interm non Twilight update will likely feature Shimmy more as there is alot that needs to be explored with her.

Huh. I do like this story, but I'm not enjoying the portrayal of Celestia being completely and horribly evil. This goes well past 'for the greater good' and verges straight into sadistic monster territory; it's got nothing to do with whether I like the character or not, it's that I can't stretch my SoD that far to encompass this behavior. Sure, it makes Sunset a more interesting character, but I'm not sure how you can recover from this and have Celestia remain a remotely reasonable interpretation of, well, Celestia. I can buy your Celestia sending a terrible but efficient assassin to kill a mare who represented a nigh-existential threat to her ponies. Doing terrible things to keep the peace, and convincing herself that she's good because the ends justify the means. I cannot buy this - taking pleasure in torture, vile threats, and most importantly, not giving a shit that one of her completely innocent ponies was slaughtered in the crossfire.

Also noted several grammatical mistakes and to/too in that last section.

(Red Robin made me laugh.)

And if it wasn't clear before, this chapter certainly clears up any ambiguity on Celestia being an evil bitch in this one.

Unfortunately, it doesn't do any wonders for what Luna might be like either...

8572077
I.... Don't think that this Celestia is supposed to be an interpretation of canon Celestia. Correct me if I am wrong, Jest!

No cruel fate is too far for the Sun Whore.

It's true. Read your history children!

Good chapter. However I did not understand what Celestia wanted or why she punished Sunset.

From Machiavelli to Vlad Tepes.

Celestia is going to die slowly and in total agony. Or be kept just on the brink of death for eternity. She has to suffer!

8572077
Greetings Laluzi!
As just a mere editor of the story, I’m afraid I can’t do much about the evil Celestia issue, but I can at least influence Jest’s spelling and grammar choice.
I have went through the text, catching one runaway ‘too’ in the part where Celestia yells at Sunset, and made a proper adjustment in the GDoc. However, can you please tell me about the to/too’s and other issues you have spotted? I’m not denying some might have escaped my eye and I’d really appreciate if you took a bit of your time to point them out

Celestia's personality seems to have taken a rather dramatic shift in this chapter. To the point that she's not even the same pony she was in the beginning. I just read the whole thing, so it's all fresh in my mind, and this chapter paints her wildly out of character from how she was before.

In the beginning chapters, she could be described as twisted. Almost like an Inquisitor in Warhammer. She did terrible things, but always in the firm belief that what she was doing was necessary. That there was some sort of greater good to be served by her actions. But in this chapter she left that far behind and descended to the point of simple, blatant, evil. There was no point to what she did with Sunset beyond just simple sadism. It was torture for the sake of torture, plain and simple. I was enjoying the complex, twisted personality you gave her at first, and to see her reduced to nothing more than a simple butcher is more than a little disappointing.

8572176

8572099
In the begining she was out in public, where she could be seen and where such a cruel act would garner her problems. People are only ever truly themselves when they are alone (or alone enough).

Also just a hint here but there is a cannon Celestia in there but something is different, obviously.

8572184
Even when she was alone in the previous chapters she had more complexity than she seems to in this chapter. Even when it was only her and Sunset, she never stooped so low as to be nothing more than a simple sadist. She always, even in her own thoughts, believed that what she was doing was, in some way, for the benefit and protection of Equestria.

As for the twist, I'm betting it's the same as or similar to The Mare Who Once Lived on the Moon. Luna was banished but the Nightmare never left.

8572184
You’re right, something is different!
She’s a horrible insane tyrant with no redeeming features whatsoever.

8572199
You have excellent taste but not quite!

I see the heretic.......

Purge of the enemy leader has been approved.
Target: Celestia
Order: Kill target by any means necessary
Secondary Objective: Recover prisoner 11248 if possible
memegenerator.net/img/instances/500x/59190076/purge-the-heretic.jpg

8572219
...I have a feeling that a daemon of Angry-Bird-Lizard-Demon DM-variety is at work here...

And that poor old Luna is the hapless NPC.

EDIT: Also, probably the hore-man-woman-IDKWTF. That too.

8572259
Yes, with all due haste, Grey Knight. (At least, I'm fairly certain that's a Grey Knight.)

Celestia is all kinds of levels of fucked up in this holy. I didn't expect her to be this messed up.

So, if Celestia is this fucked up, does that mean that NMM is either the good guy or the lesser of the two evils? Either way I'm hoping that Shimmer finds a way to escape. She needs some vengeance on that Wolf in Alicorn Clothing

8572306
Black templar actually.

“You know very well that I did not teach you that spell. I allowed you to view the unaltered first telekinesis spell. It is you who used it for evil!”

“Evil? Celestia, I was trying to enable doctors to perform surgery without ever having to open a pony up! But all you saw was a way to kill and jumped to the stupid conclusion that I was—”

Another back hoof, this one just as hard and just as fast. Thankfully Sunset saw this coming and was able to brace herself at least a little before the blow came.

This touched a very sensitive nerve for me. I don't know why but I have a very severe reaction to injustice and the jumping to conclusions by people with the power to punish. I can not even put into words the burning hatred and rage I feel every time Celestia's character is portrayed in this story, and I have nothing else to say except, good job.

8572394
Ah. Thank you.

“You know very well that I did not teach you that spell. I allowed you to view the unaltered first telekinesis spell. It is you who used it for evil!”

“Evil? Celestia, I was trying to enable doctors to perform surgery without ever having to open a pony up! But all you saw was a way to kill and jumped to the stupid conclusion that I was—”

Another back hoof, this one just as hard and just as fast. Thankfully Sunset saw this coming and was able to brace herself at least a little before the blow came.

This say a lot about this Celestia personalty. She only able to she the evil in things and not the good. Sunset's spell could've save more lives and cut back the cost medical bills for many people who have problems paying for their operations.

i am loving this story

8572099
Oh, I'm not saying she should be - anything that I described wouldn't have been. But there's canon divergence, which many fics ascribe to, and coming off as a completely different character. Which is usually just to justify bashfic or making the bad guys the good guys, but it's generally not a staple of good writing and strikes me as offputting, hence the concern.

8572141
I think that was the only to/too I caught, but I spotted a ton of missing commas or semicolons/hyphens when I first read it. Just skimming:

Sunset rubbed her forehead at the memory, that had not been a pleasant experience and despite the fact that she had no evidence, she couldn't help but imagine -> Sunset rubbed her forehead at the memory; that had not been a pleasant experience, and despite the fact that she had no evidence, she couldn't help but imagine

The small kitchenette had a few fresh fruits left in a small bowl that had been welded to the table which was in turn welded to the ground -> The small kitchenette had a few fresh fruits left in a small bowl that had been welded to the table, which was in turn welded to the ground

Down on the ground prisoner 11248! -> Down on the ground, prisoner 11248!

Oh that? I was just removing something that might get in the way. You see Sunset, I had yet another annoying suitor come in today and I got to thinking. -> Oh, that? I was just removing something that might get in the way. You see, Sunset, I had yet another annoying suitor come in today and I got to thinking.

"Fuck what the hell?" the unicorn spat -> "Fuck, what the hell?" the unicorn spat

There were a few less egregious ones, but these strike me as the most blatant.

So.. which one did the Nightmare possess again?

8572645
The nightmare actually hasnt been mentioned yet.

dose anyone else smell dawn breaker personality on sun butt?
Love the story, keep up the good work.

Ok. I really hope twilight sees reason and saves sunset.

8572476
Oh, I’m glad it’s ‘just’ that. Thank you very much You’d be surprised how many there were originaly missing...

I wonder does the Element of Harmony even exist in this universe? Since it's plain to see Celestia already satisfy with her solo ruling.

“Why couldn't I have been named something cool, like Night Wing or Red Robin? Actually that second one kind of stinks.”

Red Robin? Wouldn't she have to be red

“Augh. I’m going to have to sneak into one of the officer bathrooms again.”

“Again? Is it true they got heated seats?”

The mare’s eyes went wide and she leaned in conspiratorially. “That's not the half of it, they even got these fancy things that dry your hooves for ya and—

Are they Japanese or something

holy fuck Celestia is mental. If she's that evil would Nightmare moon be good?

...Holy. Shit...

... I was thinking Celestia was a deluded "Order/Peace/Etc. at all costs" fanatic who was just very good at ignoring or blaming others for the costs of her precious 'utopia.'

I was sooooo wrong. She not only is perfectly aware of those costs, she relishes in them. Taking some sort of perverse sadistic joy in doing unspeakable things to helpless ponies.

Judging by the sub-text in this and previous chapters she not only murdered the doctor who saw Twilight as a baby for trying to help a foal and seeing what I suppose are natural soul-magic systems in her body, gives no shits about Velvet's death at her hands (and sees it as a plus), she's also enslaved and tortured Sunset (who it sounds like was her personal student in this AU as well) for devising a medical spell that could be used maliciously. Not only that, it seems she's done it to 11,247 ponies before her.

And from the sounds of it, being a sadistic murderer (as Sunset tries to present herself as to Celestia and everyone else) is grounds for being 'retired' as a 'specialist.' (So only ponies tortured by what she makes them do get to be her personal executioners, instead of her pet psychos in the Guard? If they ever stop feeling bad for what they have to do/adapt to what they're put through/get used to it, they are killed/'relieved of duty?')

No Elements of Harmony or other magic macguffin can save her. She needs to die. Or something equivalent; maybe put through exactly what she put all her victims through. (I'm torn on: Have a thousand years of torture inflicted in an instant; having her relive it all as it happened, just on the other side this time (spread out over the next thousand years, at the same pace and rate as her victims) ; or having each individual torture occur randomly throughout the rest of her existence. (So for example: She is walking down the hallway, and suddenly she feels exactly what Sunset felt when she said "Burn," lasting just as long as it did for Sunset. The fear would be appropriate, knowing that at any moment you could suffer that or any of the countless like it, and knowing it is exactly as it felt for them.

Not saying that a multi-generational torture program should be set up for her by Twilight/Luna/whoever and meted out to her by them or other ponies. Just that, if the Elements do get used on her and/or she's 'redeemed,' that it would be a start/fitting punishment inflicted by a set of amoral magical artifacts used to punish and/or 'purify' wrongdoers. (Who have, we know, inflicted both one thousand years of solitary confinement on a mentally unstable/possessed/etc. individual, as well as one thousand or more years of total paralysis with functioning senses while being conscious and aware.)
(Just sayin; to those who will say "The EoH are good, 'kind,' merciful, infinitely forgiving, and redemptive. They would never do such a thing to anyone." Look at the established punishments and say that again.)

8572934
I loved reading this. Your quite insightful and I must say you have put some interesting ideas in my head.

(first half)

Awww, Dashie is adorable in this!

(second half)

8572934

No Elements of Harmony or other magic macguffin can save her. She needs to die.

She is a monster, in the truest meaning of that word. Her actions and behaviour in this chapter demonstrate beyond all reasonable doubt, that she is utterly beyond redemption; she is an avatar of arrogance and vindictive malice, filtered through the harshest of black and white worldviews, while also being the greatest hypocrite to have ever lived.

But turning her physical tortures back upon her would be ineffectual and fairly pointless.

So consider this strategy instead; destroy the one thing she actually cares about, her precious 'Utopia.'

Strip her of power, lock her in chains, and force her to watch the dismantling of her life's work; take everything her sadistic actions have served to build, and burn it all down in front of her. Once this is done, i recommend letting her stew in it for a day, and then execute her; as merely imprisoning a biologically immortal being, only serves to leave the door open for her eventual escape, to do all of this all over again.

addendum: The burning does not even need to be literal, exposing Celestia's myriad crimes, and sadistic true nature would cause riots in the streets at minimum, or even plunge the whole of Equestria into civil war.

Twilight cannot purge this bitch soon enough.

8572928

holy fuck Celestia is mental. If she's that evil would Nightmare moon be good?

That is if The hole Nightmare moon thing even happened in this AU. Celestia could just have banished Luna to the moon because she was a obstacle that Celestia could not torture away, then fabricate the hole event by saying that Luna vent mental just so Celestia would be seen as a good guy in the eyes of the common pony.

I am going to be highly suspicious and skeptic if any character mentions Nightmare Moon in this story from now on.

8572934

I was sooooo wrong. She not only is perfectly aware of those costs, she relishes in them. Taking some sort of perverse sadistic joy in doing unspeakable things to helpless ponies.

The only problem there, is that this chapter is the first and only time we've seen her express that sentiment in the entire story. In all previous chapters, even when she was alone, even in her own thoughts, she has actively regretted the things she's done to other ponies. That hasn't stopped her from doing them, of course, but she still felt regret and remorse for it. I mean, there was even that whole PTSD flashback moment when she was drinking her morning coffee.

Every other horrible thing she's done has been done with purpose. Every malicious act she's committed has been to serve the Greater Good (at least in her view). As far as she was concerned, she had no choice but to do the things she did. What she did in this chapter was wildly different from that. There was no greater purpose to what she did to Sunset beyond her own enjoyment derived from Sunset's suffering.

Either Celestia's personality was drastically changed by something in universe, or she was just written OOC for shock value. And her personality wasn't like that when she woke Sunset up less than a day before. Even when she was waking Sunset up she was still hesitant, wondering if sending her out was really necessary, and she actively avoided tormenting Sunset, even when she easily could have. if something happened to her, it happened fast.

8572696
So, not Luna? I mean with how you're setting up Celestia I can really see the Nightmare possessing her instead of Luna...

8573261

In all previous chapters, even when she was alone, even in her own thoughts, she has actively regretted the things she's done to other ponies. That hasn't stopped her from doing them, of course, but she still felt regret and remorse for it.

You can feel regret for doing things you enjoy, it's called a Guilty Pleasure. It's just that while most of us attribute that term to things like eating junkfood, skipping workouts, or even something like enjoying a song/book/movie that you know is bad, this version of Celestia tortures and murders her little ponies whenever she can come up with a half-assed justification.

Sunset created a way to perform open-heart surgery without the "open" part, and Celestia used it as an excuse to torture her for eternity because it "could" be abused. What's worse, Sunset was only able to do that after Celestia showed her some ancient form of telekinesis.

Besides, Celestia doesn't feel guilty. She feigns remorse. It's like a deranged serial killer telling themselves "They don't understand, I need to dismember and decapitate these children, otherwise the whole world is doomed! I'm a good person, really! ".

I mean, there was even that whole PTSD flashback moment when she was drinking her morning coffee.

The flashback/PTSD you're referring to was about the horrors that Necromancy wrought on the battlefield. It wasn't about her "guilt", it was about the spark that started her down her current path. The driving force behind her need to eradicate the whole field of magic was that it was used to commit atrocities on a great scale during the civil war... Which actually kind of explains the thing with Sunset now that I think about it.

8573365
It's true that you can feel regret for doing things you enjoy, but the point is that until this chapter there was never even the hint that she enjoyed what she was doing. Part of what kicks off the whole flashback scene is her lamenting how much she actively dislikes the things she feels she has to do in order to protect her subjects.

I'm not saying that the things she does are right, or good, or just. I'm certainly not saying that she's right to have done what she did to Sunset. I'm only claiming that, at least prior to this chapter, she was twisted, dogmatic, and overzealous, but never outright, unrepentantly evil. She was the living embodiment of the concept of the road to Hell being paved with good intentions.

Besides, Celestia doesn't feel guilty. She feigns remorse. It's like a deranged serial killer telling themselves "They don't understand, I need to dismember and decapitate these children, otherwise the whole world is doomed! I'm a good person, really! ".

Again, there's never any hint that any of it is feigned. And she most certainly does not think she's a good pony. From the first chapter:
" The things she had done to protect the peaceful lives of her ponies and ensure they didn't have to see what she had were the driving force of her life these days. But if the public knew what she had done, they would have crucified her and she would hardly blame them. "

Or this one, where she's literally crying at the thought of her little ponies being hurt and the pain she feels for what she had to do to Luna:
" Please don't remind me how my ponies suffered and what I did to her. "

Or her hesitation to turn Sunset loose on Twilight and her family:
"The alicorn sighed and moved her hoof to the next part of her preparation, but stopped suddenly, images of all the ponies her little specialist had killed flashing before her eyes. Her hoof wavered, and for a second she nearly moved away.

Come on, Celestia, indecision doomed your sister, you can't let it take anything more! But her hoof still wavered, undeterred by her mental pep talk. Do it! You failed once when she was young, you can't make any more excuses! "

There's nothing feigned about any of that. She, even when alone in her own mind, actively believes that she cares for her little ponies and is doing what she must in order to protect them. Hell, the only reason Twilight made it to sixteen was because Celestia couldn't bring herself to kill her as an infant.

Maybe Celestia has split personalities. We know she's botched neuromancy before--the last time she turned Sunset loose (which I'm guessing is when she got the nickname "the Butcher of Canterlot")--so maybe she messed up the bit she used on herself and accidentally created a split personality when she sealed away parts of her memory or something...

he flashback/PTSD you're referring to was about the horrors that Necromancy wrought on the battlefield.

The flashback itself was, yes. But what kicked it off was her thinking about the things she had done to protect her ponies and how much those thoughts and actions weighed on her.

Random thought, but when Celestia used Necromancy on her mind to remove most of her knowledge about it. She could have removed or damage her mind without knowing.

Maybe Celestia acts like a monster in Sunset's presence in order to keep her in line.

undermining the utopia I have spent millennia building.”The alicorn’s face morphed into one of overdramatic pity.

Need a space here.

This chapter brings the characters of Celestia and Sunset more into question. At first Celestia seemed good but had to do evil things to keep her society prosperous. Now it seems that she doesn't care as much about the individual but her society as a whole. Ponies are expendable as long as everything keeps going to plan. Sunset was first portrayed as a psychopath that murdered ponies before Celestia captured her. Now I must wonder if Sunset just had some discoveries and ideas that Celestia didn't like then enslaved best sun horse Sunset and forced her to murder others.

Tia just went all Andrew Ryan on her ass.

Celestia seems to be needlessly cruel. I wonder what has truly happened to make her become such a monster... I guess we'll find out later, won't we?
So, Dash got a mission, and her commander seems a little bit kooky beneath the exterior (but it is based on some sense, unless a lot of other lunatics).

Also, that Bioshock reference.

Well that was dark.
And arousing.
Why am I like this