11. The Queen
Awareness slowly returned amid the soft caress of fabric and the scent of jasmine tea. Clover was sprawled on his back, and there was a heavy weight on his hind legs. His horn hurt like it had been dragged down a few centuries of bad road — but at least it hurt, which meant his magic was back.
He groaned and sat up, only to stare into the eyes of a smiling white alicorn.
"Hey, Frumpy," Celestia said, and there was a hint of that old predatory confidence in her grin.
"Buh," he said, eyes fixed above her face. The old blue war-paint stripe had been joined by a green one — but neither stripe was paint. Paint didn't float in some intangible thaumic breeze, nor did paint colors stay completely still as her mane wafted to and fro, like some cosmic optical illusion.
He wasn't sure whether that or the tiara disturbed him more.
"Been quite a while," Celestia said, studying a gold-shod hoof. "It caused one heck of a commotion when you showed up at Canter Fort. I have to order them to keep it staffed, you know. The ministers whine at me about the budget every year."
"What," Clover croaked.
Celestia's smile didn't waver, but it grew a lot tenser. "Oh, you know how it is. Some big villain of primal chaos takes over the world and wipes out Queen Platinum's entire lineage with a wave of his claw. Jerk dad shows up just long enough to point Luna and I toward some Super Gemstones of Ultimate Harmony or something. We fight off Discord, Equestria crowns us because we're the only ones left with the power to raise the sun and moon, and after long enough you almost start to tolerate the taste of tea."
"What. What. What."
"So. Yeah. Busy three hundred years. How about you?"
Clover curled up into a little ball, whimpering.
Celestia kicked her chausses over the side of the bed and lifted the tiara from her brow, setting it down on the side table next to Clover's golden necklace. She crawled up fully next to him, curling around him and gently stroking his chest with a hoof. "Hey. It's alright. Everything's alright. I did it, Clover, I'm the Queen like I always dreamed. And now I get to share it with you, too."
Clover's head swam. This was all wrong — in its own way, as wrenching as Equestria turning into Discord's plaything. After everything they'd said, she was just casually greeting him as if nothing had happened?
But that was how they worked, wasn't it? How they had to work, with as different as Clover and Celestia were. Only the good times, and if they weren't perfect, grab the necklace and start over again. They didn't have to be a couple who fought … ever. All he had to do was forgive her for that pegasus, the same way she had apparently already forgiven him for unleashing a horde of windigos and some sort of world-eating super-windigo at her.
… When he put it that way, Clover wasn't so certain he could forgive himself.
He wriggled around in Celestia's grasp, turning himself to look directly at her, and pushed himself to the outer limits of her hug. "Listen," he said. "I'm sorry. When we talked about, what was his name, Thunder—"
Celestia's horn shimmered, and Clover's mouth snapped shut with a click of teeth. Her smile grew strained for a moment, then she closed her eyes and let out a breath before gently meeting his stare.
"It's okay," she said. "Really. I honestly mean that, Clover. It's been a few centuries, you know? I've had a lot of time to think. And, sure, you said some awful things, and you got me so pissed I was ready to flatten our mountain, but … in hindsight, you had a point too." She propped herself up on one elbow. "And our fight — that worked out, didn't it? If it hadn't happened, I wouldn't be Queen. So I've got you to thank."
Clover rubbed his jaw as Celestia released it. Let it go, a tiny part of him screamed. We're past that now. Things are back to normal. We can just enjoy each other again.
The rest of him sighed, head drooping.
"Celestia," he said. "For you it's been a few centuries. For me everything's still raw. I just had a screaming match with the mare I love. And I'm not sure I recognize the one I'm talking to."
Her smile tightened. "Then take a year," she said. "Come back fresh. That's what we do. What we've always done. And the best of everything will be waiting for you when you get back." She nuzzled stiffly at his cheek. "You can be my senior Prince Consort. I promised you the best, didn't I?"
Clover fought off vertigo, his chest tightening, and forced himself to nod. "I … wait. 'Senior'?"
Celestia's smile finally fell. "I'm Queen now, Clover," she murmured. "If I don't have a harem everypony starts to wonder."
Clover reached for his necklace.
Celestia's leg shot out to stop him. "Clover," she murmured, voice as gentle as her hoof was iron. "I'm sorry. I am. Really and truly sorry, and if I'd known three hundred years ago you weren't dead I would have done things very differently."
"Well, now you do know," he said, sounding far more resigned than he'd expected. "How long should I fast-forward?"
"Why would you?" she asked, voice getting more and more strained. "Everything's perfect, except you weren't here. Now you are. It doesn't get better than this."
"It's hardly perfect if there's no place for me," he murmured. It felt like the sort of thing he should shout, but so soon after his brush with windigos, he simply didn't have the energy for anger.
Celestia drew back a bit. She rubbed her temple with a hoof.
"Not this again," she said, and her own voice sounded nearly as exhausted as his.
"It's not again for me! We were just talking about this ten minutes ago."
"And it was no less stupid then!" She let out a long breath. "There is a place for you — a place nopony else gets. Do you think I put my whole life on hold for anypony else? Do you think I make stallions Senior Prince Consort on a whim?"
"I don't know!" Clover said. "I really don't. This is the first time I've seen you in three hundred years, and Thunderburst was almost another century before that."
"So Burry's the problem?" Celestia's tone grew a hint of an edge. "Is that what you want? To argue about a pony so long dead I no longer even know if he has descendants?"
Clover forced himself to take a long breath and put his thoughts in order.
"What I want is to feel like I matter," he said. "I did this — did everything, the necklace, the trip, taking you up on Platinum's deal — because you matter. Celestia, not the Imperatrix. And I had a chance to be somepony who knew that pony, who could be something for her that nobody else could. In return, you pushed me to be the pony you saw in me. A pony I didn't know I could be."
She frowned. "That can't be true, because Burry had exactly nothing to do with that."
"He's got everything to do with it!"
"Are you jealous I'm rutting other ponies? Is that what this is?"
"No!" Clover's ears flattened, but he looked into her eyes, forcing an earnest tone. "It never was. It's not like I didn't know what you were doing when you went to the war-camps for a week to blow off steam. But with Thunderburst, for the first time, it mattered."
Celestia shifted, sitting back, resettling her wings. Then asked, simply: "Why?"
"I sacrificed my life for you," Clover snapped back, feeling his heart squeeze in his chest. "Once, I thought I traded that for something unique. Thunderburst's the proof I was wrong. I just get what everypony else gets."
Celestia's eyes widened in shock. "That's not true! You're — he —" She broke off, steadying herself and continuing in a calmer tone. "Clover. It was Burry who just got what everypony else who loves me gets. The annoyances, the arguments, the failures. You, though? You're irreplaceable."
"I don't feel like it! Because the instant anything goes the slightest bit wrong, you kick me out for a year!"
"And give us a fresh start!" Celestia made an exasperated hiss. "Why do you do this to yourself? You never actually answered that, back on our trip. Why would you want anything other than the best possible times?"
"Because the bad times," Clover said, "are when love counts."
Celestia didn't answer right away.
She set her jaw, and her eyes flicked away in thought. "No," she finally said. "You're wrong. I've had enough arguments over my lifetime to know that, when I care for somepony, it's not because of the arguments and the tears."
"That's not what I mean."
"Then what do you mean?"
"Exactly what I said. It's …" Clover made a vague hoof gesture, then trailed off into a sigh, closing his eyes. "I don't know. Everything's so muddy. My nerves are on edge. I … no. Maybe you're right. I should take some time away." His voice grew faint. "All I know is that I love you. And we've had so many good times together. Wonderful times. Impossible, irreplaceable times. But the good times are breaking my heart."
Celestia said nothing. But her ears drooped.
"I'm sorry," Clover said. "I'll go. I'll come back in a year. I'll try to figure out by then whether I can keep doing this."
"Wait," Celestia said faintly, and tears began gathering in the corners of her eyes. "Will you stay one day before you flip? Just one day. I'll show you around the castle. Tomorrow's the first-ever Summer Sun celebration. They made me a holiday, Clover. They love me. Everypony loves me. I raise the sun for the longest day of the year, and you can hear the cheers from here to Canter Peak." Her voice hitched, and her muzzle contorted with a fear he hadn't seen since before the first time-skip. "Can't — can't you be happy for me, at least?" Her voice dropped to a choked whisper. "Do you love me enough for that?"
Clover looked away, so she wouldn't see the tears which spilled down his own cheeks.
"One day," he mumbled. "I can do that."
Their make-up sex was hesitant and perfunctory. She clung to him, afterward, while he stared at the far wall and tried not to think about the mare in his embrace.
Somehow — without quite understanding how the transition had occurred — Clover found himself aimlessly following Celestia around Everfree Palace. Clover let his blank gaze wander the castle he'd once known, taking in the bizarre extravagance and the strange clothing and the portraits of a thousand unfamiliar faces. She talked about history — so much history. Her tales of her triumphs washed over him like a tide, but it was her expression that kept looking more and more like a drowning pony's.
Celestia occasionally tried to ask him questions. He gave her what were probably good answers or something.
Then something she said drew him back to the present: "— balcony where we switch day and night."
"We?" Clover asked. "Didn't you say you were 'the' Queen?"
"Oh! Yeah. Luna's …" Celestia made a vague hoof gesture. "Backup Queen, kind of. And Imperatrix."
Clover refocused, glancing around. They were in some sort of ballroom, or feast hall, or something. Its floor had recently been refinished with some kind of exotic wood, and a number of sturdy marble tables were scattered around the room, being moved into place for the upcoming holiday. Nothing in it was recognizable, but it still felt familiar in a way Clover couldn't quite place — at least, until he saw a discolored, bulging section on the back wall.
Then he did a double-take at Celestia's words. "Imperatrix?!"
Celestia laughed uneasily. "Funny that she's the war leader now, isn't it? But she said she should have the title now since nobody in the waking world is crazy enough to attack us any more. So she's usually up at weird hours fighting off armies of nightmares or something, and it was easier to split things in half so she rules during the — Oh! Luna! Look, Frumpy's back!"
Clover froze, tracking Celestia's eyes to a point over his shoulders. He slowly turned his head, not daring to breathe.
The sight that met his eyes was a large figure in intimidating black-and-silver battle armor, her mane a living swirl of stars and galaxies to match Celestia's aurora. Luna, too, was stiff and unmoving, her eyes as comically wide as Clover's own, her stare locked with his.
The room went dead silent.
"Luna?" Celestia said.
Luna blinked rapidly, her muzzle dropping open in shock. The corner of her mouth began to twitch.
Then her eyes snapped shut, and she let out an incoherent scream.
It wasn't as loud as the one that had leveled Pansy's house. And it wasn't aimed at him. Nevertheless, Clover was blasted off his hooves, bouncing onto one of the tables and then behind it into cover. Around him, chairs tumbled outward. Even Celestia had to spread her wings for balance, sliding backward several body-lengths.
There was an ugly burst of darkness while Clover was still flailing his way back upright. By the time his ears stopped ringing, Luna was gone, and ominous silence again descended on the room.
Celestia shuffled over to him and cleared her throat uncertainly. "Um."
"I —" Clover started fumbling in his saddlebags for his necklace. "Okay, I really should go."
"No!" Celestia's hoof shot to his chest. "I — she —" She let out a breath through clenched teeth, then gave Clover a rigid smile. "I'll talk to her later, okay? I don't know what salted her drink, but I don't want you worrying about that. Tomorrow's for us."
The sun didn't rise the next morning. Instead, screams and distant rumbles heralded what should have been the dawn.
Clover bolted upright in Celestia's empty bed, and instinct instantly spurred him toward the noise. He paused at the entrance to her room just long enough to grab his saddlebags off her nightstand — then hesitated for a moment longer, remembering his fight with the chaos monster. He had a sinking feeling that this time he wouldn't have the luxury of his opponent waiting for him to improvise.
His mind racing, he fumbled with the Returning Clasp for a bit, then grabbed some pins off the nightstand and pinned the golden cord to the inside of the cloak lining. That accomplished, he threw the cloak on, tightly clasping it all the way shut to wear it like a robe with his bags over the top.
It wasn't much. It would have to do.
Explosions rocked the castle as Clover galloped through the unfamiliar halls. "Celestia!" he screamed in the face of a stampeding noble, and managed to collar the stallion long enough to get pointed toward the new throne room.
But when he reached it, the hall was empty, and it looked like there had already been a fight there. A gaping hole yawned in the back wall — directly behind the shattered remnants of one of the two thrones. Clover realized with a sudden shock that it was Platinum's old throne which lay in pieces; the other one was of a much simpler, newer design, with a small silver moon mounted atop its utilitarian iron back. Whatever blast had shattered the old throne had passed neatly between two circular wall-mounts, each containing three large brightly-colored gemstones, and for a moment he couldn't help but think that if young Celestia had bucked in this room's door she would have destroyed some lovely display pieces.
He was standing there, wondering what to do next, when the ceiling caved in with a terrific roar. Debris exploded past him, one stone winging him on the side of the head, and when his vision cleared he saw a white winged form struggling upright from a new crater in the center of the room.
Celestia! But no sooner had Clover shook off his haze and started galloping forward than she glanced up and flung herself toward the shattered throne. In less than an eye-blink, a dark meteor hurtled through the hole in the roof, and another boom shook him off his hooves. As his body tumbled to a stop near the central crater, a jet-black alicorn-shaped demon rose from it, a sharp and sickly night flowing from its body to pool menacingly into the shadows.
"No more boasts, sister?" it purred, its back to him as it crouched to face Celestia. "Is this pleading all that the Unconquerable Sun is reduced to? Will you at least cease fleeing and face your doom?"
"Luna," Celestia said brokenly. "Stop! I love you. I've always loved you."
"Pathetic," the dark thing sneered. "Keep begging like a dog and I will end you like one."
Clover struggled to stand in silence, heart hammering. Celestia, bleeding in several places, lurched to her hooves as well before falling over again.
Then their eyes met.
Celestia's eyes widened.
In an instant, the demon had spun to face him, hissing. Instinctively, his horn flared to life to blast it with a thaumic bolt, hoping to stagger it long enough to scramble into cover, but a dark limb lashed forward faster than magic could gather. The tip of it barely brushed his neck — and even that was enough to crumple his throat and snap his head back.
Clover tried to wheeze in pain, feeling his lungs silently tighten and stars burst at the corners of his vision. A wave of searing air backwashed from his disrupted spell, and he staggered back. He gasped heavily as that jarring motion reopened his airway, and scrambled backward on leaden legs as the thing-that-was-once-Luna flowed forward on tendrils of night.
"No!" Celestia screamed, launching herself toward the pair, summoning Mister Smashy from the aether and drawing it back for a blow. Without looking, the demon swatted Celestia away with a wave of darkness, sending her rocketing into a corner of the far wall with an impact that shook the building. The already-weakened wall collapsed in on her with a roar, and streaks of shadow shot across the room, splattering against the rubble and causing it to shimmer with a sickly dark sheen.
Clover, too, began spellcasting as Celestia charged — but there was an impossibly fast blur as a shadowy tendril lashed toward his forehead and coiled around his horn. He jerked his head back and the tendril dissipated into smoke, but something still clung to his horn, numbing it and greedily suckling at whatever energy he tried to focus through it.
"And thus ends the battle." Cruel laughter rolled like thunder from a distant storm. "Clover, Clover, party's over. Skipping so far down the river of time only to feed the shadows with your blood."
Clover scrambled backward from its implacable advance. "Luna!" he shouted desperately. "If you're in there — if any part of you still cares for Celestia — then fight this. Please."
The demon snorted. "As hopelessly foolish as ever. A trait I see you infected my sister with. Did you not think I embraced vengeance against a callous sister and an uncaring world?"
Clover, realizing he was backing toward a wall, started angling his retreat. The demon — no, Luna — smoothly glided sideways, boxing him in.
"I'm ever so glad you stayed for this," she said as she closed in. "For the first time in my life I was worried that you might do the sensible thing."
Clover's hoof slipped on a loose stone. He crumpled to the floor, Luna looming over him.
The rubble at the back of the room, which had been erratically shifting, gave a mighty heave, sending a few rocks rattling down from the pile which its dark infection immediately drew back in. "Luna!" Celestia shouted, muffled, from underneath. "Leave him alone! He's no threat. I'll —" her voice broke. "I'll do anything you want."
Luna's face contorted as she looked over her shoulder. "You will suffer!" she shouted. "And that is reason enough to break him!" Clover felt a tendril of darkness caressing his muzzle, and flinched back as the sudden rage drained back away from her voice. "But even if it wasn't," she purred, "I'm afraid my hooves are tied, sister. For in this instance I am but a humble servant of prophecy."
Oh no. Clover's protest died on his lips, and his stomach clenched and twisted. No, no.
"Luna!" Celestia shouted, and the rubble shook and resettled again. "What are you talking about?"
Luna threw back her head and laughed, loud and long. "Oh, me! He never even told you what Star Swirl said." Her laughter subsided into a purring, mocking tone. "'Without the amulet,'" she quoted, "'the mare who loves him will be alone and broken-hearted at the time she needs him most. And with it, the mare who loves him will be alone and broken-hearted at the time she needs him most.'" Her lips split into a sharp, jagged smile. "Because I finally found the correct solution. I ended him as you watched."
"That's not what it meant!" Clover blurted out. "Pansy loved me, once upon a time! And she died without —"
The air suddenly darkened, and something slapped Clover hard across the face. The room spun. When the motion stopped, he was lying cheek to floor, feeling something wet and metallic in his teeth.
"You're a horrible liar," Luna stage-whispered, right in his ear.
Clover yelped and scrambled away. He'd barely moved before a dark fog coalesced around him, and his limbs slowed as if he was wading through molasses.
Luna glided back alongside him. "Do you know how long I agonized over those words?" she purred. "How much I sacrificed to ward off the moment of their arrival, and how many threats to Equestria I removed once I determined I would make my death mean something?" She sneered. "And then I survived Discord, and you perished. I could not believe it! I had cheated fate. So I comforted Celestia, and I made her life perfect in a way nopony else ever could." Something in the darkness seized Clover, and the demon's face appeared in front of his own, its muzzle contorting: "A perfection she threw back in my face the moment you returned!"
There was the sudden sensation of motion as the face vanished back into the fog. Then the stone castle wall appeared inches from his face, and Clover barely had time to flinch before he slammed into it full-on.
"Luna!" Celestia let out a muffled shout from across the room, and the rock burying her shifted as she fought for leverage.
Shadows roughly grabbed Clover before he hit the floor. "After everything I did, she chose a mortal over me!" Luna screamed. The room spun around him for a moment, and the next thing he knew, another wall slammed him to a painful halt. He bounced away and rolled to a dazed stop on the stone floor, trailing tendrils of smoke as the fog pulled back to re-coalesce into an equine form.
For a moment, Clover was shocked that he hadn't been pulverized. She was holding back, he realized. Making sure he suffered.
He barely had time to breathe before Luna was looming over him again. "Did you truly think you could swindle your way out of prophecy? Doomed to fail Celestia in her time of need?" A dozen dark auras shimmered in midair, resolving into spearlike slivers of moonlight, and the spears' wicked points gleamed as they swiveled to face his body. The darkness around him grew teeth and swirled aggressively inward, nipping at his legs and back, numbing his skin. "But now it is all so clear. My own vow once upon a time — 'break her heart, and I will end you' — was itself prophecy. Two separate prophecies in one, and I will fulfill both at a single stroke."
Out of the corner of his eye, Clover saw Celestia finally thrash her head free of the rubble, eyes wide and manic, teeth gritted. She glanced around wildly — then snapped her head toward the gems which had fallen from the wall displays at her impact. Her horn stuttered to uncertain life.
One by one, the rainbow gems began to hover and glow. Whatever it was, it was charging far too slowly.
"Wait!" Clover shouted, looking into Luna's dark, demonic face as the numbness seeped up his legs to his shoulders. Stall. Stall! "You've won, Luna. There's no way I can stand up to an alicorn, let alone whatever you've become. But wouldn't you rather have a satisfying victory?"
Luna sneered, and the spears of light lifted and drew back. "Fool. You would play at bargaining? There is nothing you could offer me that would be sweeter than your long-overdue death."
Clover groped madly in his saddlebag, feeling for the thin golden chain and working his hooftip into its neck-loop to yank it out. Its triangle-in-circle amulet dangled from his hoof in front of her muzzle.
"Admitting how wrong I was," Clover said. Three glowing gems. "Throwing myself at your hooves and begging for the deal you once offered."
Luna hesitated for a long moment. Her eyes strayed to the necklace.
Four gems. They were starting to circle each other, leaving little colored trails that merged into a partial midair rainbow.
Suddenly, Luna's muzzle curled into a toothy scowl. Her horn surged with power. The necklace jerked out of Clover's grasp, and the amulet ripped apart in such an intense shower of golden sparks that he couldn't help but wince.
"A Returning Clasp?" she shouted, flinging the small golden clasp over her shoulder with such force that there was a crack as it left her hornglow, and a pok and puff of dust as it embedded itself into the wall. "Really? Are you truly such a lackwit that your best plan is to insult my intelligence?"
Clover forced himself not to look at the useless shards of gold on the ground — right now, he couldn't let anything but the distraction matter. Five gems!
"I'm afraid so," he said with false calm, shifting his shoulder in a small, apologetic shrug. "But isn't it satisfying to know how pathetic my best is?"
Luna's eye narrowed. "Hardly. Even for you, this is —"
Then she paused, black eyes boring into Clover's. Six!
"A distraction?" Clover said, allowing himself a smile.
The gems' whirling became a six-colored blur, and they descended upon Celestia's buried body. The air in the throne room began to shimmer with harmonic energy. The rubble trembled and discolored into rainbow hues, and a glowing Celestia burst out of the rocks as if they weighed no more than pillows.
And in a single, fluid motion, shadowy tentacles lashed out to grab Clover, yanking him roughly into the demon's embrace. Luna whirled around, thrusting him forward like a shield.
"Hold!" she shouted, a note of desperation at the edge of her voice. "Or you shall regret it!"
Celestia gasped, blank white eyes flying wide. Her shimmering body froze mid-ascent, hovering perfectly still.
The alicorn and the demon stared at each other for a long, silent moment — broken only by Clover's urgent gasp for breath as he managed to wriggle around enough to shift the dark tentacles' iron hold.
Then Luna threw back her head, loosing a hearty cackle. "Wait. Was this your plan?" she crowed, shaking Clover for punctuation. "Break the Elements of Harmony by turning them upon one of their wielders, and in the process, banish your sister and your lover? Oh, this is marvelous! I should beg you to fire! You will suffer more thoroughly than any punishment I could inflict!"
Celestia blinked. "Clover?" she said, voice cracking, and the whirling trails of rainbow circling her form began to wobble. "Luna? I …"
Clover thrashed wildly against his shadow bindings. "Do it!" he screamed, feeling their one chance start to slip away. "Or we're both dead, and Equestria with us!"
"Do it!" Luna hissed with equal intensity, lowering her head next to Clover's and drawing back her lips for a fanged smile. "Send me to the shadows with a plaything to devour piece by piece!"
Celestia flinched and moaned. Her body began to drift toward the floor, and the colors of the rainbow started to separate back into their individual components. Clover's blood froze in his veins.
"Celestia," he croaked, pleading her with his eyes. And then an odd lightness settled in, and every stupid, clever voice in his stupid, clever head sang one thought in unison. He fixed his lover with an intent gaze, and gave her a wry little grin.
"I dare you to do the right thing," Clover said. "Or is the mighty Imperatrix going to back down from a challenge?"
Celestia's descent halted. Her pupilless eyes widened. The shadow gripping Clover went very still.
Then Celestia's lower jaw began to tremble. She slammed her eyes shut, and her horn flared back to life, and she screamed. The Elements of Harmony flared as every last scrap of power she could summon poured into their Harmonic engine, and a brilliant beam of rainbow light burst forth.
"No!" Luna screeched — once, and then again more shrilly — and then any thought of sensation was washed away in the overwhelming power of the Elements.
And when that power slowly faded some time later, and Celestia cracked her eyes open again, the room was empty — save for the shattered pieces of a golden necklace on the ruined floor.
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That just means you’re a smart pony.
Okay, wait. Hold up for several seconds....
It just feels like Celestia goes from basically the villain of the story to someone we're supposed to have sympathy for mid-fight with Luna for absolutely no reason whatsoever. "I'll give you whatever you want" is 100% contrary to her behavior for the last thousand years, and there's no explicable reason for the change. You've spent ten chapters and over 40,000 words explaining who Celestia is very clearly and very consistently. That just doesn't flip on a dime for no reason.
Ah, yes. The time-honored tradition of locking away one's problems until a later date...
Wait a minute, that one's Starswirl's fault, too!
Not gonna lie, I’m kinda mad Clover didn’t just leave Celestia already and be done with her. She’s been completely in the wrong for the entirety of their relationship when something came up and can’t see that. He should’ve dumped her sorry ass and wash his hands of her madness and be done with it. After you done with this story can you write one that picks up where Clover caught her cheating and he decided to go forwards in time and move on by exploring what the future, like mane 6 era Equestia, has to offer him.
Last night I was thinking while falling asleep, and realized that this story makes no goddamn sense.
Celestia and Luna chased Starswirl for 80-100 years. they only stopped because Luna realized Starswirl should be dead from old age by then.
Starswirl gave Clover tips.
So either Starswirl unlocked immortality/longevity, or he's just timehopping. If he's just timehopping then his 'prophecy' isn't a prophecy but a historical footnote. Unless you want to say that him observing the future fixes it in place, there is ZERO reason for him to subject Clover to this crap. Starswirl could instead have comforted Celestia when Luna went Nightmare Moon.
Except wait, now suddenly Clover's presence CAUSES Luna's turn. And Celestia is Queen with a harem and a 'Back Up Queen" Luna.
If Clover's timehopping a thousand years isn't enough for Celestia to grow up and stop being selfish, or actually talk to Luna, why should we expect that another thousand years without Luna will mellow her out?
9756000
The elements don't need to be understood, they require that you embody their virtue. Celestia was Magic, Generosity, and Kindness. She was later able to use all six at once for a brief instant, but doing so made them inert.
9756000
Of course Celestia is in the wrong, she's supposed to be. This is a classical tradedy and that's literally the point. That doesn't mean she doesn't feel bad about her problems, and it doesn't mean Clover hasn't also made mistakes. Furthermore, Celestia cares about Luna on an emotional level, but that doesn't mean she treats her right.
I don't know what the Windigoes actually did, but if attacking your partner was wrong when Celestia did it then Clover not warning her about a threat that but all life on earth in danger last time is also wrong.
Luna doesn't assassinate Clover because by the time she's ready to kill him she's gone so far off the deep end to think of a rational plan. That's in-charator and narrative justified, therefore a valid reason. And she doesn't care about the harem because she doesn't consider them to be competion, because Celestia doesn't think they're as important as Clover meaning by extension they aren't as important as Luna.
Celestia's charator goes through wild changes because we're skipping a lot of her life, because this story is about Clover and if we see more than he does its less effective.
You know, for a story that doesn't have a Sad or a Dark tag, this story is really sad and kinda dark.
9756040
I second this. He deserves better for what he's given up.
9756040
Except for one small problem . . . Mane Six Equestria wouldn’t exist. In this story’s canon, Clover putting up with her, continuing to come back, the prophecy, his argument with her drawing in Discord, Luna going mad and turning into Nightmare Moon because of him, all of that, is the cause of Celestia’s change.
Without any of that, if he had left her and never returned, she would never have changed, and in fact may well have herself become Daybreaker out of bitterness and rage at his leaving. It is only because he was a good person, and gave her a chance, and then another and another, and then made of himself a sacrifice, to make her do the right thing, that she became the princess that we all know now.
Which means that his actions are also responsible for Celestia taking on Twilight as an apprentice, and sending her to Ponyville to discover Friendship, and the Elements, so as to free her sister from Nightmare Moon. In other words, in this story’s canon, withouth Clover doing what he’s done, none of those things would have happened.
So now that Mister Smashy has had its likely last appearance in the story, can we please discuss how ridiculously thin its shaft is in the cover picture? This thing is barely a toothpick.
#FocusingOnTheImportantThings
9756090
9756109
Alright yeah, that makes sense.
I still feel absolutely terrible for Clover though. I hope it's all worth it in the end.
9756123
Shaft’s too thin, head is WAY too big, but, then again, here’s a better question for you . . . as she, mostly, just uses it in her magic, why does it even need a shaft?!
#TheREALLYImportantThings
9756083
Except that she is neither generous or kind. This is demonstrated at length via her actions and even confirmed by the author. She's a narcissist to the core.
9756142
So she can pose with it in the palace scene, duh. A floating brick wouldn't look as cool
9756090
Classical tragedy is a valid thing, but this feels like we're supposed to feel bad for Celestia, or that she's somehow fundamentally changed. Her actions surrounding Luna make no sense in the context of other, observed behaviors. One could try to make the argument that she's changed in the last three hundred years, but her words and actions show she's pretty well the same narcissist as she always has been.
Also, Luna was ready to kill Clover hundreds of years ago, she just feared Celestia hating her forever. This is what makes no sense, killing Clover subtly would be child's play for her, and would solve all her problems with no (as far as she's concerned) downsides.
9756000
Answered in a previous comment.
We saw that Clover was aware of what was happening, or at least suspected, and instead of trying to de-escalate the situation to banish them, he indulged his shadow and invited them in.
She knows that Clover is upset because of something that she's done, but she doesn't know what it is. She wants to fix it but doesn't know how. She's confused and knows that Clover is hurting and doesn't know why, except that it's her fault and she didn't want to do that. She's experiencing remorse.
The love between siblings is a very complicated thing; I fought with my sister often growing up, but the instant she needed help I was right there. I honestly don't know how to explain it.
Clover saw them when he arrived (before the roof collapsed), and Celestia had mentioned that she and Luna used some "Super Gemstones" to take care of Discord. He inferred that six was the number from that.
Also answered in another comment.
The Nightmare is influencing her thoughts and clouding her reason and personality, and is amplifying all of her worst aspects. She wants Celestia to know what it feels like to have the thing that's most important to you taken away. Celestia was the most important thing to Luna, and Clover took her away, so it's only fitting that since Clover is the most important thing to Celestia, Luna should take him away. The reality of the situation is entirely irrelevant: What matters is Luna's perception, and that is what she perceives to be true.
9756157
Where do you get the feeling that we're supposed to feel bad for her? Or I guess we might be supposed to feel bad for her, but we can do that without liking her. It seems that you think we are supposed to see her as a hero here, but I didn't really read it like that.
Also, she seems more self-centered than anything else. She just starts out with a pretty classical personality for a god/demigod, and seems to have a really long way to go towards understanding how mortals see life.
9756164
And to quote my response, Celestia is not generous, kind, or loyal. The elements shouldn't work for her.
And? Celestia herself said that the fight with the wendigos would have been over in days had she intervened. This is barely more than an inconvenience to her, and probably frankly a good chance for her to blow off steam via violence rather than cheating on him.
Narcissists don't experience remorse in the way you're thinking of it. Narcissists experience remorse for the impact that their actions have on themselves. She's not sorry she's hurt Clover, she's sorry that hurting Clover is having consequences.
That explanation barely merits response, but here again I'll reiterate that true narcissists (which Celestia absolutely is) don't work like other people. Celestia didn't misspeak when she said "backup Queen", that's literally as far as she thinks of Luna, and we have no evidence whatsoever to suggest anything different.
Point conceded, good catch.
I responded to that in another reply, but I'll do so again here. Luna has been fully ready to kill Clover for a long, long time. The only thing that stopped her is the threat of Celestia's displeasure. The problem here is that Celestia's displeasure is only a relevant factor if Luna has a reasonable expectation of being caught, which given her specialty is operating in secret, she does not.
EDIT: Fixing formatting and a typo.
9756154
When you use the elements, they don't require that you embody their virtues all the time. Think about when they tried to use them on Discord. They failed. Celestia, in an act of going up against Discord to save the world, was very much being Generous and Kind and doing so out of friendship for all ponykind. Luna used Joy (for it was what she wished to bring her sister) loyalty (to her sister) and honesty (she has always been blunt.)
It's the same for the current bearers. Rarity has moments of greed. She's a business pony. Sometimes she gets caught up in just wanting success. The difference between her and someone like Suri is, when Rarity realizes she's hurt someone by stepping on them, she actually cares and tries to make it right with them.
9756164
9756183
You're right, Rarity isn't generous all the time, Fluttershy even had moments of meanness. Celestia though simply at the very core of her being is not loyal, kind, or generous. Times in which she displays those attributes are the exceptions, not the rule.
I felt the impact of that sentence.
9756024
No matter how much you may resent your parents, they're still your role models.
9756168
Her actions towards/surrounding Luna seem like we're supposed to look at her as a hero. Heroes are self-sacrificing, and her abrupt about face to a stance of "I'll do anything you want", reluctance to act against Luna out of love, and her deep concern for Clover's well being seem intended to confer protagonist status to her, without actually making sense of it.
Is this going to make Celestia into the "vestal virgin" we see in the FiM series? The perfect, distant, fairly unapproachable demigod that everyone sees atop a self-made pedestal? I guess I should expect that, because this story is pretty well building up to canon FiM.
I was really hoping that she'd end this story better connected with regular ponies, and especially the ones she's in love with.
9756187
Which is why Celestia only used the elements twice, but was not a bearer.
9756187
No, she is not an actual narcissist with an actual disorder. She's grown up being called a god and bought into it to an unhealthy degree. We do not have a reason to think she has a clinical disorder; she's a jerk who didn't have a relose the depths of her jerk is essential until they began to have consequences because no one ever brought them up.
9756220
Except they have had consequences, repeatedly. She's broken Clover's heart (and bones) more than once, and doesn't seem to have any regret for those actions beyond the obvious impact they have on herself. If the last nearly thousand years haven't taught her what Clover has given up for her, she's not gonna learn.
9756216
Except that, again, based on our canon understanding of how the Elements are activated, they should not have worked at all.
9756175
He didn't apologize for geniounly coming close to killing her, he was sorry for something trying to hurt her and past that, I don't how much dangerous Celestia is, anytime you shrug off a thing that has nearly ended the world you have fucked up.
9756227
At most you're demonstrating that Clover is also awful. It's possible for two people to be simultaneously bad, and it certainly doesn't change anything Celestia has done. Let's be real here, Celestia physically assaulted him twice, and the only thing that prevented a repeat was a magically binding oath that prevented her from acting on the urge. In the real world, we call that person a serial abuser, and generally regard them as irredeemable scum.
9756224
No, she didn't see the extend of the consequences because they keep using time travel to duck out of having real conversations until their fights escalate to the point where they can't ignore them, which is now.
That is literal the entire point of the story.
Also, I'm not using Clover to make Celestia look better, I'm defending his apology.
9756187
She's loyal to Clover: When the Nightmare has him pinned, she tries to negotiate for his safety.
Generous and Kindness are trickier, because we haven't seen her exhibit those traits, but keep in mind that we're seeing the world through Clover's eyes, and because of his use of the necklace, Clover is missing about 1,000 of stuff that's happened, including we don't know how long between Thunderburst and Discord. For that matter, even the 83 or so years he was skipping through when Pansy was still alive, he was around for maybe two or three weeks out of an entire year? We have no idea what Celestia got up to for most of that time.
We are not omniscient observers in this story; we can't assume something didn't happen because we didn't see it, because we can only see what Clover sees and he hasn't seen a lot of stuff.
9756243
Except that she regularly cheats on him, despite having a clear explanation from someone who couldn't time hop out of the argument that this sort of behavior is not appreciated or normal.
Additionally, you're right, we aren't omniscient observers. But "This super important and character changing thing happened offscreen and we're not going to explain it" is not a mark of a story that makes sense, which is my total argument. Not that it's entirely impossible, but that it makes no sense as presented.
Backup Queen
Twist the salt-soaked knife why don’t you, big sis
Who likes his kneecaps.
Clover would be proud
9756242
Ehhh.... She had to wait in a room with a full medical staff to make sure he didn't die, not sure how you get more "seeing the consequences" than that. If you experience empathy at all, that's pretty visceral. Her promise came after Clover threatened to leave her, and she later expressed that she wished she hadn't made the promise, specifically so she could harm him. Again, in the real world we call those people serial abusers.
9756154
You know the saying "You're not paranoid if there's really somebody out to get you"? In the same way, it's not quite narcisissm if you really are the center of the universe.
Celestia is not a bad pony at heart. Remember who Clover fell in love with. But she has never had a healthy, sustainable conception of love. And she's been slipping because there's been nopony — and nobody — to rein her impulses in. Now on top of that, her immortal sister has been nothing but an enabler for several centuries.
She just got her reality check.
I have more to say but I won't be able to focus on this until after work. In the meantime, I broadly agree with comments upthread answering your questions, especially 9756090 and 9756164.
9756259
Except the evidence for that is rather scant, and the evidence against that conclusion is almost overwhelming. "I don't have a good relationship model" is a good excuse for not knowing how to appropriately negotiate a budget or show affection, not for cheating, physical abuse, emotional abuse, and more. That's even leaving aside her actions like referring to Luna as Backup Queen and the fact that her biggest comment on the extinction of an entire family line was that it made her Queen. These are not the markers of a pony who experiences empathy, even for other immortals.
9756256
That's a consequence, but she's specifically waiting to undo the mistake and therefore it isn't nearly as pressing as this one. Moreover, verbally wanting to escalate a fight (after he intentionally tried to make her attack him) is what peoe do in a fight. It isn't a pattern (you need at least three for it to be a pattern) and these problems wouldn't be problems if Clover didn't keep using time travel to avoid a real mature conversation instead of just fighting and having increasingly awkward make up sex.
She isn't a serial abuser, she's a screw-up in a relationship that isn't fair to either of them, happened to be much worse than her partner, and has at this point finally ready to be a good person just in time to lose him.
9756267
They died centuries ago and she didn't know any of them. No, that's just somewhat egocentric. She's a jerk, but she isn't emotionally abusive. I strongly disagree with the assertion that she's a serial abuser as opposed to someone who doesn't live with mortals much, lost her temper, and is generally a bad partner. And she is describing Luna's job, not devaluing all Luna's existence.
9756292
If three is the requirement for something to be considered a pattern, we absolutely have a pattern of behavior for Celestia, two successful physical attacks and one thwarted through magical means only. As you say, Clover did absolutely escalate the argument, which he should not have done, but I think we can safely agree that physical violence is never an acceptable retort for words, especially with a power differential like the one Celestia and Clover have.
9756267
It's a statement of fact.
Equestria named Celestia Queen, and Luna took up the mantle of Imperatrix. Luna is "Backup Queen" in the most literal sense; if Celestia is no longer able to rule, then most probably the ponies will pass the crown to Luna. This is not a government where they share duties as co-regents; if it was, then Luna wouldn't be "Backup Queen," she would just be Queen. There is not even any evidence that Luna is controlling the Moon at this point, outside of her having the ability to do it, and that is not evidence.
Also, Celestia has been demonstrated to have not been in any way close to the royal family, and we saw evidence that as time went on, they actually grew even further apart, to the point where the royal family was just something that was out there in the world. By the time Discord showed up, it's very clear that without any wars to fight, Celestia had mostly checked out, and thus the erasure of an entire family line was, for her, just something that happened. I can't speak for ponies, but this is normal behavior for humans.
"I don't have a good relationship model" is a completely valid explanation for physical and emotional abuse, if no one is correcting you when you engage in these things. No one has ever corrected Celestia about anything except for Clover, and he's been largely absent for much of her life. This chapter is the first one in a long time where she's had anyone correcting her behavior, even if it wasn't directly. Look at their interactions; they're hesitant and uncertain, whereas Celestia was completely confident before. She knows from Clover's behavior that something she is doing is not something he finds to be acceptable behavior.
Lastly, "cheating" is a socio-cultural concept, not a biological one. For much of her life, no one was telling her, "Pick one." She could do whatever she wanted. Now, she's Queen, and she has a harem. She's being told that she can pick several, but she has to stick to just those ones. Notice that she wants to add Clover to the harem; clearly, she's able to understand the concept of "cheating" once it has in some fashion been explained to her. Socio-cultural concepts must be taught; they are not just "known."
9756301
It was thwarted by magical means because she intentional limited herself. That absolutly doesn't count, a fact that is compounded by the fact that Clover isn't escalating the argument, he's specifically trying to set off her oath thing to hurt her.
This isn't okay, but your playing it up much more than it is in the actual story.
9756309
I haven't (and won't) defend Clovers actions here, but she took the oath only because there was a substantial chance he would leave if she did not. If you knew that you had such awful anger management problems that your only solution for not going to jail was to walk around wearing handcuffs, that doesn't make you a good person. It makes you a very violent person who doesn't want to go to jail.
As to your assertion that I focus more on this than the story did, you're 100% right, but that's mostly because if Clover was someone any of us knew, we would be telling him to run far away from the person who almost killed him, and to take out a restraining order on the way out of town.
9756306
Except that Thunderburst was apparently livid when he found out about Clover, and her response to him seems to have been entirely devoid of empathy.
Basically, there's a whole lot of various caveats and excuses we can use for her behavior, but in order to actually make the affirmative claim that she is fundamentally at all good, we need some evidence for it, and thus far that's in remarkably short supply.
9756319
There is no reason to assume she only did that only out of fear of him leaving, especially after how she reacted to Luna's threat.
And I'm not saying you're focusing on this more than the story does, I'm saying you are adding a layer of subtext that is not supported by the story itself.
9756319
False equivalence; there is absolutely zero chance that any of us will ever know someone who is in love with a god. We also have zero chance of encountering a situation where anyone that we know will enter into a relationship because a prophecy told them to do it.
We cannot make assertions about how we will react in a hypothetical scenario when we have no prior evidence to suggest how we might react in that scenario, or in a similar one. This can be demonstrated no more clearly than by the fact that in most circumstances, "fight or flight" does not happen. When faced with danger, most people react by not reacting; the amygdala hijacks control of the brain and tries to put a plan into action, and if it does not find an appropriate plan in memory, then it will freeze you until it either comes up with something, or until the cortex reasserts control. But everyone you ask is dead certain of what they will do in that hypothetical scenario.
9756360
I'm not sure that fight or flight reactions are at all comparable to taking an honest look at a relationship and going "Dude, that's not healthy. She's hit you twice and almost killed you once. Run."
9756344
My subtext here starts and stops at the demonstrable facts in evidence. She hit him twice, nearly killed him once, and later attempted to do so again in response to verbal provocation. Those facts are not in question, and I assert that beating up someone you claim to love is not something that a good person does. Would you like to argue that point?
9756142
Because while being on a god level, I would totally see Celestia use that little bit of extra force that shafts on weapons provide for that sweet sweet overkill. Because she can.
And yes, the head is waaay in the fantasy land and ditched and semblance of realism long ago.
#LargelyIgnoringMainstreamConversationInTheComments
I didn't catch that part the first time I read through this. Are you really going to wrap all of this up in just one chapter? Just four thousand words or so and that's it? That's rather disappointing. It'd be nice to get an epilogue or something at least.
9756369
I didn't say she was a good pony. I said not a bad pony.
I don't think anyone in this comments section, including myself, has argued that Celestia acted correctly. But you seem to be arguing that she is unworthy of redemption.
To take an easy and relevant example, canon Luna in S01E01 kidnapped her sister, repeatedly (more than three times!) tried to kill Twilight Sparkle and friends, and also threatened to put the entire world in eternal night (but let's ignore that because you seem to be focusing on physical attacks). By the standard you're outlining, she should be in jail rather than on the Equestrian throne.