12 - Conflicts
After the roar, Andrew had taken to treading more quietly. The thumps of the hydra moving continued to emanate from the north, and that worried Andrew; he was heading in that direction. The disappearance of the cave had unnerved him, and knowledge that a creature from a previous hostile encounter was present made the situation worse. Andrew’s side had begun to throb again, but he ignored it the best he could, instead directing his focus on the tree brambles ahead.
The forest was different from the one he had established his camp in. The trees were much more gnarled than the birch and oak, and their bark also held a much darker hue. The dirt of the woods was much more firm than Andrew had expected, and he couldn’t believe that trees were able to grow on the incline; there was practically no grass around.
He paused, a loud, rumbling roar surging through the air above him. Below him, the earth shook, pebbles slipping from their homes on the incline and back down towards the field. After a moment, all fell still. Andrew stood there, taking in the silence carefully. What had happened to the hydra? It no longer moved, and the forest’s eerie quiet had begun to dig into Andrew’s worries. After another minute of standing still, Andrew began moving up the slope once again.
Strange bubbling could be heard, and with a wince at a sudden earthen smell, Andrew realized that he was stepping into a bog. More specifically, the bog of the hydra. He took one last breath of the fresh air in the forest and stepped out into the marsh.
It was just like he remembered from three days prior; it was rank, muddy, and more importantly, full of frogs. Within moments of stepping onto the edges of the bog, various frogs that were sunbathing on the drier parts of the bog immediately began croaking at him. One nearby even jumped up from its place near Andrew and right onto his foot. As carefully he could, Andrew shook the annoying critter from his foot and began walking around the edge of the bog. He was just about to pass back into the forest to his left, but something caught his eye from the center of the bog in a small patch of grass. He couldn’t tell what it was, but it was something shiny, and most likely metallic. Andrew weighed his options; he could go and leave his curiosity unsated, or he could go snooping once again…
"Dibs!” he shouted, jumping over a group of squawking frogs and onto a dry patch of land towards the center. Within half a minute, Andrew had hopped between eight patches of land untouched by mud and reached the center island. Crouching down, he picked up the shiny object. He laughed in joy and pulled it close; it was his thermos. Andrew settled down, looking it over for any damage.
'How did this even get here?' Shrugging, Andrew slipped the relatively clean bottle back into its spot on his pack. He returned back to the edge of the clearing, gave a glare to a frog croaking loudly before him, then shifted back into the trees.
Feeling cheery with his discovery, Andrew brought the thermos out again and rolled it over in his hand, using his stick to make sure he would not trip over anything ahead of him. The metallic container had served him well for well over half a decade, having been an early present from one of his friends after their first hiking trip. It brought happy memories to his mind, but it also brought to light just how important storing food and water would be in the new land.
Winter was coming, that he knew for certain. Glazing over the fact that he could clearly understand the ponies at times, which he assumed had something to do with the orb, Andrew figured that the ponies had survived in these plains and forests for much longer than he had, so they must of had some understanding of storing food. He put the thermos back, glancing around the strange forest as he thought again to the ponies. They had no fire, but they did have a language. Teaching them how to create fire would be a good start in preparing for winter, but beyond that, Andrew did not truly know how to help the ponies any further.
'Simple tools, maybe? That would be a good start, especially for making shelter.' He thought back to the earth pony cavern, laughing quietly to himself. 'Those ones should be fine with their shelter, though.' Andrew basked in the birdsong that had returned to the woods, enjoying the walk to its fullest extent. The tree branches here were high enough to avoid pushing them out of the way, but as Andrew reached the fifteen minute mark in his walk, the trees gave way to their oak and birch brethren. A few more minutes found Andrew back in the Greenland. Heaving a sigh of relief, Andrew clambered up over the same hill he had climbed earlier and made his way to the center of the plain.
As he stood close to the earth pony den, he checked his watch. It had been about an hour since he had started his hike, which surprised him greatly. That left him with enough time to spend the rest of the morning with the ponies, or to scout further east. The bag on his back rested comfortably on his shoulders, but it was simply not useful at the moment. For the time being, Andrew decided to check in with the ponies at the camp, as well as drop off his possessions.
When Andrew came back into the clearing, he could see that most of the ponies were simply resting. He supposed that there really wasn’t much to do around here; hunger was sated with the berries, and water was provided by the stream nearby. Mint was one of the few ponies up and about, and she immediately came up to Andrew. He expected her to nuzzle him, or show some form of appreciation that had become normal for both Andrew and her, but all he received was a worried whinny.
"Bushkeeper?"
Andrew crouched down. “What’s up?” She looked around the clearing at the ponies, alerting Andrew to the fact that they weren’t resting, they were cowering.
Mint turned back to him, neighing. "Monster."
Andrew was immediately on his feet at that. “Monster?”
Mint pointed a hoof towards the south. 'The hydra,' he thought. The idea slipped away just as quickly as it had come when Mint redirected her hoof to the east. 'Or not.'
"Come," she snorted, motioning with her head for Andrew to follow. Sliding through a tight gap in the thicket of berry bushes, Andrew found himself standing amongst a small group of familiar ponies; Greeny and Lemon were making an exchange, whilst the orange earth pony, who had carried Andrew, and the brown mare, stood off to the side, watching the unicorns silently. The two unicorns halted their conversation and turned to Andrew, their expressions matching that of Mint.
The orange earth pony snorted and bowed his head at Andrew’s arrival. "Bushkeeper."
Andrew gave a curt nod and threw his eyes back to Mint. “What’s all this about, Mint?” The mare in question ignored him, instead rounding up the four ponies to form a group of six.
With another neigh, Mint and the ponies began walking.
Andrew followed the five ponies as they led him east. Uneasiness began to settle onto the group, Andrew taking notice of such when Greeny began to whimper, but Mint leant close to him, calming the stallion. After much more longer than Andrew expected, the group came to a stop at the end of the treeline. He checked his watch; noon had come around in their hourlong trip.
"There!"
Andrew looked up at the sound of Mint’s whimper, and he was horrified to see what was ahead of him.
A giant green valley covered the area far ahead of them, stretching for what was certainly miles. An incredibly tall peak sat about ten miles away to the northeast, two magnificent waterfalls visible from the group’s position at the edge of the thicket forest. Further east, a large river ran through a forest to the south, and north through a mountain chain attached to the tall peak. In the center of the green valley erupted billowing pillars of smoke, the results of large fires that had set the world ablaze. Andrew suddenly felt that the spiders were the least of his problems, his eyes landing on the source of the flames; a huge red dragon.
The dragon roared, sending the ponies beside Andrew scrambling for cover in the forest. Andrew stood there, watching the two behemoths duke it out, the four-headed hydra snapping its heads in combined effort at the dragon soaring above it. Spouts of flame erupted from the mouth of the mythological beast, scouring the once green lands below with red and yellow. Andrew spotted a herd of bison near the base of the towering peak at the end of the mountain chain. He was happy to notice the bison galloping northward; he knew that they would be safe from the needless destruction happening below them, but also felt that he would not be seeing them around the area for a very long time. There was a pained roar, this time from the hydra, and Andrew was quick to see what had happened.
The hydra’s scales seemed immune to the fire, but it clearly was not immune to the sharp claws or teeth of the dragon. There was a scuffle between the two as they rolled in the valley, fighting tooth and claw for victory. Andrew could see mud being flung up from the hydra’s form, and with almost comedic accuracy, some of the mud landed directly in the dragon’s eyes. Hissing, the dragon opened his mouth to shoot a gout of flame, but then, as a surprise to every creature within twenty miles, water began to spew from the hydra’s maw.
The dragon was caught off guard by the loud and powerful burst of water. Its eyes were cleared of mud, but water slunk down its own throat. Coughing up a cloud of black smoke, Andrew realized that the hydra must have extinguished the flames that had been rising up. With one last growl, the dragon rose up on its wings and soared over the hydra, heading southeast. As it disappeared behind the cover of a forest, the hydra let out a roar and stomped back towards the ponies and Andrew. Stumbling for cover, Andrew took a spot besides Mint, and as a group, they watched the hydra stomp back over a portion of the forest south of them, no doubt going back to its home in the swamp.
Andrew breathed a sigh of relief and stood. He readied himself to go but realized that there was one last crucial detail of the battle left behind; the valley was still burning. Whipping around on his heels, Andrew stared at the burning valley. There was nothing he could do but watch as the grassland burned. Then, with startling comprehension, Andrew took notice of the fact that the flames could definitely reach the forest he was standing in. Unlike the forest east of the flames, the forest of the berry thicket was not separated from the fire by a river. Just as Andrew was panicking over what to do, Mint tugged on his arm.
He looked to the mare. “Yes?”
“Pegasus,” she whimpered. Andrew blinked at that.
“What about them?”
This time, Mint spoke in her own language. She stomped her hoof. "Cloudmasters!"
Andrew’s eyes widened at that. He had seen the pegasi somehow landing on the clouds, so could that mean they could take the water out from the clouds and use it on the fire?
“But there’s no way we could get to them in time!”
Mint grunted, understanding their plight. She turned to Greeny and Lemon, snorting. Andrew did not understand the last word that she spoke, but he did catch most of the sentence.
"Lend me your fwafwa."
Greeny and Lemon acted simultaneously, bowing low to the ground. The brown mare and orange stallion seemed disgusted at what was happening, but stepped back otherwise. Andrew stood there, confusedly transfixed on the wisps of light that were seeping from the two kneeling unicorns’ horns. The trails drifted from their horns and towards Mint’s own. As the brightness intensified on her own horn, Mint’s eyes squeezed shut, her teeth gnashed together in pain. Andrew reached out to touch her, but before he could, the world dropped out from beneath him.
As the three unicorns sat there, staring at the spot where Andrew had once been standing, the orange stallion bowed his head low, muttering the earth pony tribe’s age old phrase. The brown mare butt her head against her brother’s own, and the two repeated the phrase in unison.
"Earth be with you."
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Wow, I did not expect this, it's a good surprise.
So uh, how does this work with the hearth's warming story? Is it like a reimagining of that? Because according to it ponies were much more advanced before they ever discovered Equestrian lands.
8034508 well that happens after they make their civilizations. The wendigoes aren't around yet.
8035437 But aren't they supposed to be in a different land entirely when they make their civilizations? I thought they originated and evolved elsewhere and then migrated to the Equestrian land. Where the three of harmony is, and the Canterlot mountain and froggy bottom bog and all that stuff. Kinda like if Europe was on the verge of a winter apocalypse and everyone fled and discovered America.
8035631 That might be true. This is like pre equestria so recorded history probably doesn't happen for quite some time. Maybe some migrate or maybe they all do.
8035631
8035827 I get the feeling that this story takes place in the time period after the ponies migrated to Equestria to escape the windigos, but before the windigos themselves followed them over, resulting in the unification.
My bet is that Minty is actually Clover the Clever.
8036062 I like this theory.
8034228
I am still on the bridge of whether or not I want Andrew to influence ponies that much. Personally, I believe that the minotaurs have something to do with the ponies having things such as the dreaded door knob technology, and in the case of this story, I believe in that. Andrew is simply there to lend the ideas, but not fully explore them due to his short time there. IE, ponykind is able to build medieval level structures due to early concepts of artificial shelter. It's not as if Andrew taught them how to build thatch roofs and castles within his existence there.
8035631 8035827 8036480 8036062
Correct.Edit: The windigos arrive after the ponies migrated to the northwest of Equestria's center, and follow the Equestrians to Canterlot for the Hearthswarming Tale. If you're interested in where the ponies actually are and how it pertains to the windigoes, follow the comment chain or check the latest comment here: 8042416.
Andrew will be gone by then, but yes. This story takes place many years before the day of unification, and I don't know if the comics give dates, but I will acknowledge that they exist, so you will have to take into account that ponies had enough time to develop the rest of the language thoroughly, expand their rivalries further, reach Middle-age technology, and form their three independent nations. This also means that:
... is incorrect. She can be an ancestor, if you so wish to believe such.
8036425
The ponies have also shown that they are not as normal as one would believe them to be, IE their shelter, language, and respect for Andrew /// the Bushkeeper in the form of bowing, so It would also be out of line for me to call them normal. I don't know about you, but seeing the term 'featureless pony' or 'hornless and wingless pony' every time I bring up an unnamed earth pony would get old after a while. Respectfully, I'm keeping earth pony; I find it better that way. If you have a suggestion for what I should call them, tell me! I'd really appreciate that.
Thanks for the comments.
8036681 Cool, thanks for clarifying!
8036681 Huh, that's not how I'd usually see it, but ok. While it's pretty obvious that the Hearthswarming pageant was an abridged version of events, I'd always thought it took a couple decades at most. Also, ancestor? ...Thaaaat wouldn't exactly work, seeing as Clover and the rest apparently took part in the migration itself, and were supposedly some of the first ponies to set foot on the as-yet-to-be-named Equestrian soil.
Based on that, even if the actual time-frame is decades long, both the Migration and the Unification must have taken pace within the same generation. (...Damnit Zecora! Now you've got me doing it!)
I was running off the assumption that the play was getting the level of advancement for the time period wrong, rather than the nonexistent time-frame of events. They did after all just get done with not only a species wide civil war, but also a mass exodus to escape a frozen extinction. Believe it or not, those two things would do just about as much damage as Discord's reign in regards to their development as a species.
8037783
Have I not been seeing the show correctly? Or did I somehow miss the whole civil war thing? Can you give me sources for this stuff, because according to you, I'm way out of the time frame of the actual show. I'd have no problem with putting an alt-universe on this whole story, but I need to see some evidence for this stuff.
I'm at school at the moment, 1:13 JST, but I'll give you a quick lil' cap off of my thoughts for now: I was going with the ponies living west of the Whitetail Woods, which is where the berry thicket is FYI, but the windigoes followed them there, much later after Andrew OFC, and then they migrated east to where the Canterlot mountain chain is. If the show can confirm this alone, because I just follow the show canon, not comics, then please show me some sourcing for this. I hope this isn't just some fanon throwing me for a loop. Also this isn't exactly what I want, but best I can explain for now.
Thanks for commenting.
8039602 I just double checked, and while it was never explicitly stated that there was a war, it was stated that the leaders in question were the same six ponies throughout the entire course of events.
To recap, tensions between the tribes were on the rise when a sudden, mysterious blizzard caused a famine. In response to this, the leaders of the three tribes, (Chancellor Puddinghead, Commander Hurricane and Princess Platinum) gathered together to discuss a course of action. Predictably, the talks go south, before in an ironic twist they and their seconds-in-command (Smart Cookie, Private Pansy and Clover the Clever, respectively) all decide to do the same. (or at least, I'm assuming they went south, for all we know they could've gone north. If South America were frozen over by a freak storm, I'm pretty sure Mexicans would be going "is this what it feels like for them when we try to cross the border en-mass ? No wonder their leader wants to build a wall.") This event is what we refer to as "the Migration", which as you've recently verified has already happened in your story.
Source: MLP:FiM, Season 2, Episode 11, "Hearth's Warming Eve". Wiki page linked here.
8039720
Looks like we'll be slapping on an alt-universe tag then.Not that It'll change much since... y'know, that'll all still happen.Thanks for clearing this up. You've been a real help.
Edit: Didn't read through it enough, and I prefired based on the thoughts that I made in about a minute at school. From the way I'm taking it, I don't think it would be alternate universe, as with the way I've written and planned out the story so far, your thoughts are pointing me to the fact that 1, it can't be the same migration, and 2, it is possible for the timeline to stay within the show's canon if there was a second migration. This is because I can essentially have it line up so that, and I wasn't talking decades earlier, centuries before Clover the Clever's story, there was a prior migration. This would also mean that it would be possible for Mint to be an ancestor of Clover. Win-win, right?
Presumably, they could've come from the Undiscovered West on the official Equestrian map, and this is all theoretical and not final, where the ponies had settled down for a good while, but had to flee from the windigoes to Equestria.
Maybe, the ponies canlivein the Undiscovered West... That might not work if the ponies can record history by then...Hmph. Well, I have a couple new ideas for now, thanks to you, but I think we can stay in canon. Let me know the rest of your thoughts and point out any discrepancies I may have left behind with the worldbuilding.Edit Edit: I'm just going to use this comment to throw out thoughts now. Right now, we're west of the Everfree, I goofed up earlier when I said they're west of the Whitetail (that was an earlier draft of the story), the ravine is obviously Ghastly Gorge, and the marsh is obviously Froggy Bogg, which means that at some point in the centuries leading up to the ponies being driven from their civilization, which rises after Andrew, to the Canterlot mountains, they had to have lived 1, near mountains, and 2, somewhere not too close to Canterlot. I can't use the Undiscovered West if I want to stick to canon, but near the Smokey Mountains, probably where Tall Tale is, that could work.
Yeah, that lines up, I believe. The unicorns can live where Tall Tale is, relatively close to the capital of the pegasi in Cloudsdale, if that was where the capital was, and the earth ponies can live with the unicorns in Tall Tale. So that works out fine. Actually, that works out very well. I think I recall the ponies in the show walking on a mountain pass... Yep! After checking the official map, that works; the earth ponies can move along the Unicorn Range on the northern side, and then push through to see Canterlot, where of course, the big meetup would happen.
And to think, most of this will never be written in Bushkeeper. Of course, the movements of the ponies will be determined by the fire and the canon, and this worldbuilding will help with other works.
I'd like someone to lend me their fwafwa from time to time, seems useful.
8040137
It also makes for a great salad!
8039930 No, you were right the first time. The Alt-universe tag would still be needed if there were two windigo-forced-exoduses. This is because there's nothing alluding to a second migration anywhere, in show-canon or otherwise, so including such would still be considered a major change to the established lore/timeline.
1: Tribal tensions draw in the windigos.
2: CP, CH and PP decide to move their respective tribes. (the Migration)
3: They wind up moving to the same place, and tensions flare again.
4: The windigos are once again drawn in by the animosity, forcing the tribes to hide out in some nearby mountain caves.
5: CP, CH and PP get frozen solid while arguing, so SC, PP2 and CtC huddle together for warmth.
6: Cue the "Fires of Friendship".
Earlier I kept saying decades in regards to how long it took the windigos to catch up with the ponies, but remember that I also said "at most". The truth is that it could have only taken a few years, maybe even less! And even if it did take decades, it most definitely wouldn't have taken centuries to track them down if they've already found them once. I view the windigos like bloodhounds. If they haven't already acquired a scent on their target they'll wander around searching for a trail to follow, but the moment that they find a lead they'll chase it down full tilt.
8040805
This is where I don't believe the tag should apply. When I said second migration, I meant one without windigos. I did not mean that there were two windigo-influenced-exoduses, I meant that there was one exodus due to the fire, "...the movements of the ponies will be determined by the fire..." So it should fit in with just one windigo exodus that happens after a migration during pre-Classical times, because there is no recorded history before the Hearthswarming story in the show.
This fanfic should just be worldbuilding for the time before Equestria, so it shouldn't affect any placements of the ponies, therefore the tag should not have to exist. To reiterate, there are two effects from the windigos; the blizzard in Tall Tale, and their frost in the Canterlot region. It is correct to say, "This is because there's nothing alluding to a second migration anywhere..." because this story is about what happens before Equestria, but in the end, it does not change the beginnings of Equestria.
The whole reason I said centuries is because of my previous statement; when the first migration happened, they did not have civilization yet, hence, their civil politics talks, when they break down, "...draw in the windigos." This should line up because the ponies would have been living there for years and years, building up their civilization, and when talks between the three tribes began to fall out during the blizzard famine, AKA first windigo effects on ponykind, the mass exodus to the Canterlot mountain chain would take place. This should work because the Hearthswarming story starts in an already established homestead for each tribe; we can see this in the show at the very beginning of the play, where the earth ponies and unicorns have stone buildings, and the pegasi have their home in the clouds.
So if we stick with what I'm saying, then yeah, it wouldn't take them years for the windigos to follow them. At best, I'd say it would be a year before the windigos found them... but since the show gives us a play, we have to interpret that their meetup happens relatively quickly. Equestrian coinkydink, I suppose.
Unedited @ 6:50 AM.
8041508 But you've already confirmed that this story takes place after the windigos showed up.
So that explanation is contradictory.
Edit: When I said:
I was referring to the fact that the technological and societal advancements (i.e.-buildings, clothes, social structure, etc) wouldn't have been nearly as developed as the play depicted during the events in question. The pegasi wouldn't be able to forge armor like Hurricane's without the earth ponies' help even if they did have fire for forges, the earth ponies wouldn't have elaborate outfits like Puddinghead's if they had to constantly work the fields just to get by, and the unicorns certainly wouldn't be able to acquire such a lavish outfit as Platinum's, simply because such a thing wouldn't exist in that era of the world. The buildings were nothing more than props, and the elaborate outfits were nothing more than costumes... probably ones designed by Rarity.
In your story, the lack of even basic amenities -despite the obvious evidence of the tribes already possessing their own cultures- could've easily been explained as "they had to leave everything non-essential behind, otherwise the would've frozen to death".
Dragon vs Hydra, it would have been great to see that in the show.
8041543
Sorry for not making this all clear from the start of our conversation; the storyline is in development, so you're right when you say it's contradictory. My statement was basically made temporary when these comments between you and me started. I'll make an edit of the original comment, but what you've been helping me do is satisfy the continuation of the Hearthswarming story. So here's what I've got:
1. Ponies live west of Canterlot; between Whitetail Woods and the forest south of Smokey Mountains. // This is what is seen during Andrew's first day in Equestria.
2. They are driven up through the Smokey Mountains because of whatever I choose them to be driven up by. The fire is not permanent, as with much of the future of this story.
3. Andrew leaves or whatever. // End of Bushkeeper. No windigoes, see?
4. The ponies begin a civilization where Tall Tale is.
5. Here, between 4 and 6, the ponies develop an actual civilization and culture.
6. The windigos arrive due to talks breaking down between the three tribes.
7. The ponies discover a valley near Canterlot within the course of the next year, and bickering results in windigoes arriving for their second and final time to aggravate the ponies advancement.
The theorizing at the bottom of your comment is easily dismissable for my story; It's not going to appear during Andrew's stay, so you can keep that for yourself. Personally, I believe that they're magic ponies, so it's up to debate whether or not they would be able to make such things, but that's not the point.
I know you'll find something wrong with the timeline at this point, so fire away.
Edit: So you can quickly compare your timeline to mine:
1: Tribal tensions draw in the windigos. // This would be 6 on my timeline.
2: CP, CH and PP decide to move their respective tribes. (the Migration) // 2-6 on here are under 7 on mine.
3: They wind up moving to the same place, and tensions flare again.
4: The windigos are once again drawn in by the animosity, forcing the tribes to hide out in some nearby mountain caves.
5: CP, CH and PP get frozen solid while arguing, so SC, PP2 and CtC huddle together for warmth.
6: Cue the "Fires of Friendship".
So, as you can see, there would be no prior windigoes before their appearance in Tall Tale.
8041580
We've still got time... We can dream.
8042416
Well... You're not wrong. (>_>)
One of the main reasons I first assumed they were at the point in the timeline I did is because I actually recognized the general location the story took place in. Just to be certain, the spot you're describing is the little crossroads between Smokey Mountain, Whitetail Woods, Las Pegasus, and the Undiscovered West, closest to Whitetail itself on the map, right?
4.bp.blogspot.com/-uj5l0C_W9Ps/Vh9gxWnaXKI/AAAAAAAAA98/kYLCGxpkHmI/s1600/eq_map.jpg
If that is the spot, then that could very well be the place the ponies ended up after the first windigo incident, following the show's canon. My logic being that the ponies' original homeland is supposedly outside of the main landmass that would eventually make up Equestria proper, i.e.- somewhere beyond the massive landbridge that is the Undiscovered West. If what you're saying is true, that would mean that the ponies have been within the borders of modern Equestria long before the events of Hearthswarming Eve, which would contradict the established canon, which would in turn require an Alt-universe tag.
8043209
It's not the spot, if you're talking about this area:
image.prntscr.com/image/c5b0bf7d20b3445f87ed7eefcb63f604.jpg
As mentioned earlier, the place where they would move to would be Tall Tale, as specified in point 2 of my timeline, "They are driven up through the Smokey Mountains," right through those northern mountains. And there's another thing...
You can't quite follow the canon if there is no canon.
See, because the Hearthswarming Tale doesn't specify what Equestria itself is to the ponies at the time, as far as my knowledge goes. Even if they were to colonize all of modern Equestria's territory at the beginning of the very beginning, including the mountain range of Tall Tale, it just doesn't make sense for a nation to begin with so much territory; there is no possible way that the ponies had enough manpower (ponypower?) to hold all of that territory that we see in Modern Equestria, no less over mountains, with such low-grade tech and population.
In my timeline, Andrew's story ends above the mountains. What you're saying is that it ends in the same place as he started. That's not where the story is going. You've got to look at this from an incomplete perspective; Bushkeeper is probably only halfway through it's journey to completion.
"Your logic" is that their homeland was beyond the landbridge. "My logic" is that they were within the borders of modern Equestria.
If it exactly says that the ponies were within the borders of Equestria, which I would like to see if the show does say that, then the alternate universe tag would be required. If not, then all we can do is theorize about what happened before the Hearthswarming Tale. So please, do some research for me about where exactly I, "contradict the established canon," because it's 6:50 AM yet again and I'm sitting here using my brain way too early for my standards. But, as they say; ponies do not wait.
8043833
I was referring to point one, as in the place they originally came from.
(please excuse my nonexistent mspaint skills)
i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh623/stephen51991/map1_zps8qoruwjt.jpg
Key words "at the time". I was running under the assumption that whenever the narration of the modern day Hearthswarming tale talked about the "new land", it was referring to the landmass rather than the country. Reason being that Equestria as a nation wasn't founded until the very end of the tale, and thus wouldn't be anything at all to them "at the time". Furthermore, while the nation may have changed borders several times over the course of history, the main landmass (I'm hesitant to call it a continent because the part we're talking about is just one major section) has obviously remained fairly constant from a geographical standpoint.
As for the argument that the show not explicitly stating things gives leeway for the lack of an AU tag... by that logic you could write a fic where Equestria is actually the literal Greek underworld, and still have it be within canon boundaries.
...No, I am not just making that up.
8043988
Your MS Paint skills are fantastic.
Personally, I'd have them originally come from the Undiscovered West as mindless nomads, spend a while in the "1" portion of your map, where they would develop culture, then move upwards.
Oh boy, now we're opening it up to literally everything.
By this logic, we could say that anything that happens, say, between seasons, that it could be in canon as long as it matched up with the starting point of the next season. Equestria could encounter humans between season 4 and 5, but magic™ erases everypony's minds and fixes the world. I haven't been in the writing portion of the fanfiction spectrum for very long, but this just seems like a ridiculous loophole.
As much as I want to say that it could be alternate-universe, I also want to say that it could coexist with the canon. Alternate-universe implies that the story dramatically changes the canon, does it not? This would mean that in order to put this into alternate-universe, I would have to write into the Hearthswarming Tale and change the history of Equestria. It would only be slightly, as it would be locations, but it would make it alternate-universe.
I think I'm starting to see where the problem has sprouted. Thank you for bringing this whole conversation into existence; by the end of these comments, I should understand this stuff better in the future.
The problem sprouts from this point; none of this has happened. When I say this, I mean that none of what we've been talking about has occurred. For all we know, after Bushkeeper ends, the ponies could move anywhere so long as it kept up with the canon... and that would be because I changed something. But If I don't change anything, then I'm not changing the history of Equestria and making it an alternate-universe, am I? I have yet to write anything in Bushkeeper about how the ponies reached the Hearthswarming Tale, and on a side note, I never will. However, I have alluded to the ponies reaching Hearthswarming via their locations within modern Equestrian borders, which you pointed out in these comments.
This completely tears apart my point, but because the show isn't specific about it, the loophole comes into play; we don't exactly know what the ponies mean in their play "for the argument that the show not explicitly stating things." This means that it would be possible for this to be alternate-universe, or within canon.
This is ridiculous, but I can't really see anyway out of it. It's either leave it without the tag, or with the tag.
So yes, you're not making the 'Greek underworld of Equestria' up. This is actually stupid; I hate assuming big picture ideas like this, but I still feel attracted to marking the story as 'with canon' and 'alternate-universe.' We're both running off assumptions at this point:
And I was running under the assumption that the "new land" was talking about the newly discovered biome of the landmass, rather than the landmass itself. We could argue all day about or assumptions, but in the end, we return to this one big idea; we can be both aligned with canon, and at the same time, changing the canon.
Our opinions don't matter when it comes to the tags... but when the show doesn't give us anything to use, what are we left with? Our opinions. So... It's one or the other: to tag it alternate, or to not.
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He says while simultaneously exploiting said loophole.
We kind of are, aren't we?
Yeah, and at this point I think we've both come to realize that fact. Without any real data on the time period in question this discussion is never going to reach a conclusive end, simply because the details on the subject matter we're discussing are sorely lacking. The two of us can both be seen as simultaneously correct and incorrect, because neither of us can technically prove the other wrong...
Oh.
I've just realized that our discussion faces the exact same logic pitfalls as a science vs religion debate.
I'm gonna stop talking now, because those never end well for either party.
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This was a hilarious journey, I figured from the start I was being hit with someone's fanon, and then the show got pointed out as evidence, and I thought, "okay, that's neat," but then as the conversation collapsed inwards today... it just... Yeah, that was a trip.
Good talkin' with you. Hope to see you around for future updates, haha.
Cheers,
Geoff.
8045056 You too man, see ya round.
loving this story, and i just started today xD
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Because then we'd better understand that even dragons need to stay hydrated...
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Stay thirsty, my friends.
Alright, I'm finished with this story. I can't stand the way Andrew just KNOWS things. No confusion, just perfect realizations and moments of clarity. He saw that pegasi can move around clouds and immediately (and correctly, just like always) assumes that they can make it rain by manipulating said clouds. If I were him, I would have made the assumption that Mint wanted the pegasi to try and put out the flames by creating a gust with their wings, since I had absolutely zero reason or basis to believe that they can make clouds rain. You could argue that Mint's insistence of their title of "cloudmasters" could have been a connection between pegasi and rain-making, but she's already shown that she hands out arbitrary titles faster and more frequently than a Lord Of The Rings character. Considering how ununified the ponies are right now and how much better each race thinks they are compared to the others, "Cloudmasters" sounds more like a self-given title by the Pegasi. "You shall call us 'Cloudmasters'." In fact, I wouldn't have been surprised if that was actually what pegasi called themselves instead of "pegasus", since that's just a name Andrew introduced in his language. He even knew all about that stupid ribbon that was tied to the bone and where it came from.
On top of that, Andrew just accepts things and moves on without a care in the world. Magical orb that lets him understand ponies? Hints and clues about inter-pony relationships and disputes? Literally ANYTHING that happens around him in this story? Nope, no reason to try and investigate any further or show even the tiniest bit of human curiosity, just keep collecting berries I guess. Who cares? Certainly not Andrew. I'm done.
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I completely understand your refusal to continue the story. Thank you for at least dropping by and reading, however. I do make note of the comments that take a more critical stance when reading into the actual story of my work, and I appreciate your comments wholly. I am currently taking your recent words about my poor storytelling into consideration as I work towards a better version of my fiction.
Again, thank you for taking your personal time to put your mind to digital paper. I am not hopeful that you will try another reading of my work, but I do wish you a well goodbye until a time in which you come across another one of my stories.
Have a good day.