Ok now this chapter definitely took things in a different direction.
The previous showed there was still conflict but it almost seemed like it was heading towards a more peaceful resolution. This chapter however has crossed passed peaceful and into unhealthy. While Ruby wasn't really the focus here, each member of this weird sexual tryst has started going down some pretty unhealthy directions, which really keeps things interesting.
Fluttershy it seems isn't as completely confident with her sexual lifestyle as we first believed. While she loves completely immersing herself in her debauchery, it seems this is usually without an emotional connection. here though with Rainbow Dash, she has now come into conflict with herself, realizing that while she absolutely loves what happened, she also feels immensely guilty with herself by using her friends crush to force her into a sexual experience she didn't want. She is trying to convince herself that Dash had given her permission, but she hasn't given in to that. I think part of the problem lies with the fact that she hasn't taken into account that the problem isn't solely with her actions, but also with Ruby's unintentional as some of them may have been. I think it stems from her as previously stated, non emotional level of sexuality, whereas Rainbow, a passionate person, brings everything into the experience, emotions included. It will be interesting to see how things progress from here and how Fluttershy starts to feel about things, whether she will continue to give into her lust or follow her kindness.
Rainbow was incredibly conflicted here and I think this was the complete turning point for her. She has broken somewhat now and with her desire to block out her thoughts on things constantly, it is just going to keep building on her until she completely snaps. Previous chapter it was clear that she had feelings for kind Fluttershy and didn't seem to know how to handle lusty Fluttershy, feeling a pull towards wanting to be the dominant to Fluttershy. Here however she seemed to completely give in, likely due to her depressed state over thinking Fluttershy would love Ruby and his dominance, over Rainbow. She tried to take control, to be like Fluttershy was, an in control sub, but she seemed to completely give in, and become the sub to Fluttershy, something I think the yellow mare hasn't completely realized yet either. The curious thing here is taht while she is more emotionally connected to Fluttershy, she seems to find more sexual comfort in Ruby, a fact that seems to disgust her. It may be that while Rainbow has a crush on Fluttershy, she is actually straight, or has a preference to men rather then woman, and is now having to try and understand this fact due to how long she has gone giving her sexuality any thought.
She is in a very unhealthy place right now, seemingly willing leashing herself to Ruby, so that Fluttershy can truly be her master, seeing Ruby as more of a tool, like one of the sex toys on Fluttershys nightstand. Fluttershy is the one who is control here. However this mentality seems to have poisoned her feelings for the kind animal loving mare. She refuses to let herself truly process things and so she keeps slipping further and further down a very dark path that might end up really messing with her head. Fluttershy isn't completely oblivious too this, but she can't seem to really understand the cause and so keeps making it worse in the process.
Ruby didn't have much presence her, but I feel that worked for the best. Right now he is happy but somewhat confused about what just happened. However I think once he sees how the two mares interact with each other and with him when he awakens, it might start getting him to think about things a bit deeper. Oddly enough I think he will probably start feeling a bit more sympathetic to Rainbow if he can actually work out Fluttershy's role in hurting Rainbow here.
All in all I think this chapter has taken things on a different path then I had initially thought, a darker path. But this also means there is a lot of new potential as well. I think the next chapter with them all awake and not in a sexual state will really be interesting to read as all the characters adjust to the changes they are all undergoing. Awesome work.
I was recently wondering whether this would be updated, and then bam, 14K-word update. Praise Celestia, for she hath provided …
Good stuff. My favorite has to be Flutters getting ass-fucked right above Rainbow – that’s gonna be a happy thought for a long time. The only mild critique I may offer is that the inner monologuing gets a little lengthy at times, especially when it’s in the middle of sex scenes. I suggest reserving them for when there’re less immediate things happening between the characters. But as I said, that’s just a nitpick – still hot as hell.
The abusive angle was played on too hard here and it became too much for me to bear reading. Too much pain and betrayal in a character that is slowly losing her mind to abusive doms and is held in place by morals that have been taken to far. This story takes depravity to a new level, owing much to the admittedly quality writing and yet that only makes the content that much more horrifying.
...seriously, have you spoken to a psychiatrist lately?
8531111 What can I say? I aim to please. lol. We'll see how long the next one takes to come out. Hopefully sooner. Interesting on the inner monologuing. I actually do that on purpose, otherwise the sex scenes get boring for me. I like to know what characters are thinking and feeling. I can try to break it up a little more and spread it out. Thanks for the feedback on it! I'll adjust it for the next chapter, let me know how it turns out!!
8531328 OOh! Sweet! I love comments like this! Where was the turning point for you? The original run through didn't have Fluttershy arguing with herself, so all that and related thoughts+ the bite interaction were added later because I felt she needed more depth in the scene. It certainly made this quite a bit darker. While it's certainly dark, it was nowhere near super dark in my mind. I want to know what made it over the top for you! Is it because I skipped over the after care? Honestly, I really wanted to write it out but also just wanted to post this. I can add it in the next chapter, or make a quick in-between chapter for it.
The "triangle" was my SO's input, and while I felt it was a little early in the story for them to be getting that "heavy" with each other, I think I made it work a little. Was that the turning point? Shy does come off as a little cold right there. I can fix that up. I didn't want this to be too negative/dark, so I can clean it up a little if you give me some points where it was too much. Half of RD's perspective is really supposed to be about a sort of awakening on her part, she accepts that she likes certain things and (sometimes, not all the time) being treated a certain way. That was supposed to be covered in the after care bit where she talks it out with Shy. I need to add it for sure now. In fact, there are two times when Rainbow is actually the instigator on Shy in these two chapters. Rainbow and Shy both like these times, and for some reason I skipped over them a little. Doh!
lol about the psychiatrist. I assure you, I'm actually a very stable person. I don't let my characters/stories influence my real life relationships and activities. I'm fully aware that the characters are in unhealthy relationships. One of the things I like to write about is unhealthy relationships. It's like watching that "crazy ex girlfriend" show, or a soap opera. Nobody in a soap opera has a healthy relationship, and if they really do, one of them is going to die and the other is going to get into an unhealthy relationship. It's great for people like me to watch...
To re-iterate - Let me know what put it over the top, and I probably will retcon this chapter just a touch to make it lighter. It wasn't supposed to be off puttingly dark (yet). It was supposed to be "darkly fun" for all three of them with underlying themes of "did we take this too far?" and "what/how are we feeling about this?". It is supposed to be unhealthy though, not gonna lie. I greatly appreciate the feedback!
8530895 You seem to like the dark turn! Cool. Counterpoised to CuriousCurse, can you give me an honest opinion on if I should make it less/more dark here or keep it the same? I'm gonna do what I do, but I like input and will happily shape the story accordingly. Like I said, the plot lines for this one are "loose" so I can keep writing it whenever or change things a bit whenever.
You have an interesting character analysis which is a ton of fun to read and think about! You are spot on about Fluttershy's lack of "emotional connection" compared to Dash's passion for things. For Dash, she goes full in when she does things, while Shy keeps her sex life and regular life usually very separate. One of the backstories I was going to have was going to be an old relationship of Shy's where the stallion involved got upset because she had no real desire to keep the relationship "serious". Instead she wanted to fool around and have fun, which was not something he necessarily wanted. I nixed it for now, but he might show back up.
Interestingly, I don't see Rainbow as "broken" here. She makes a decision to be an "actor" instead of an "acted on" in the little play on lions. The poor little rabbit is supposed to represent her fear, reluctance, and timidity with sexual things. She's at least momentarily willing to tackle her sexuality head on. Admittedly, she still self censors a bunch, but that's because she hasn't decided on how she really feels about things just yet and doesn't want to spend forever defining her feelings on things. Instead of worrying about her feelings, she rushed forward and tried to ignore them as much as she could. Ruby describes her as "determined" and he's not wrong. She has a goal, and is very clearly making steps towards her goal, even if they seem counter intuitive. Part of accepting her sexuality is accepting Fluttershy's, which is one of the core themes for her (which you noticed through Ruby by the way) through these two chapters. Fluttershy likes toys. Rainbow lets Fluttershy use her like a toy, because Rainbow wants Fluttershy to like her (like Ruby, but idealy more so). You are also spot on with how she sees Ruby in this encounter. She actively reduces him to just a penis a few times because it's easier for her to process him as a living dildo than as "Ruby" here and there. Then again, there are a few times where "Ruby" is more exciting for her than just a penis... There are a few levels like this going on, and it's actually an almost conscious decision of Rainbows in the last chapter. Is this healthy? No. Is it what Rainbow wants? Maybe. She's willing to try it for a while to see what comes with it. She notes that accepting Fluttershy's intimacy means accepting "everything that goes with it." and she's still deciding if that's what she wants or not. Rainbow needs time to process things, so she's gonna work through some things in her mind, one way or the other real soon. As far as her sexuality with Ruby, it's a little more... complex... than straight or gay for poor Rainbow. But that's for later Rainbow to worry about.
And yeah, this could get very unhealthy very quickly if they don't think things through a little more. But I also feel like that's why they would at this point. People don't tend to act until the last moment for whatever reason. Anyways, feedback on too dark/dark enough would be appreciated! Thanks for the awesome comment!
8531670 I think adding in an aftercare scene would be a good idea. I personally don't mind the darkness of the scene itself, as unlike other stories that involve slavery and non consensual sex, this story takes a very unique approach to everything, and that makes it all the more interesting for me. However an after care scene or some bigger indication of Rainbow's thought pattern as you described here (awesome thought patterns here by the way, very in depth Rainbow) would lessen the discomfort for those not as comfortable with dark scenes, and it would also help the characters along figuring out how they feel about things now on a more personal level before a more group decision ends up happening in a future chapter.
I think everypony's level of involvement here worked well, taking on the right level of focus and being in the right viewpoint for the scenes. Next chapter should probably have more Ruby involvement and let us see a bit more of how he is feeling now, but that would work better after he has a better look at Fluttershy and Rainbow in the morning.
Overall while I didn't see any problems with the chapter or its tone, I can understand where CuriousCase is coming from and adding in a scene with some calming down and returning to normal tones, would be a good idea for readers who aren't as interested in darker themes.
8531670 Re: the inner monologues – to elaborate a little, my issue (and again, this is more of a nitpick) isn’t necessarily with the presence of the monologues, but that they interrupt the sex with lengthy meanderings that often don’t contain anything very sexy, other than an occasional mention that sex was happening. If you insert more frequent and graphic descriptions of the action into the monologues (at least a couple times a graf or something), they’d feel more like sidebars and less like intermissions.
A related nitpick, and this one’s even more subjective, but: The rabbit analogy was apt, but it felt kinda out-of-place in the middle of a sex scene like that. One minute I’m enjoying the action, the next I’m reading about terrified bunnies and bloody fangs and … it kinda made the mood go hide in a corner for a second. The imagery, y’know? I wouldn’t delete it or anything, but maybe reserve for before the action, or afterwards.
… Dangit, now I think about it, there’s one last thing I wanna mention. I understood that Dash and Flutters approached the situation from very different angles and thus had very different reactions until now. But I gotta admit, it got a little eye-roll-inducing to see Dash still misinterpret Flutters’ reaction to getting fucked as one of being abused. She’s been both told and shown, repeatedly and clearly, that Flutters wants everything Ruby has to give her and that she enjoys it rough. I understand Dash has a big crush on Shy and will understandably be both highly protective of her and predisposed to think the worst of Ruby, but her thinking Ruby was hurting Shy just made her seem annoyingly thick. She doesn’t have to enjoy Ruby being rough with Shy, but she should at least grok that Shy is okay with it.
Okay, that’s all the nitpicking, I promise. I don’t wanna give the wrong impression; I really did enjoy the chapter and I love the story as a whole.
I wasn't gonna comment originally but the conversation in comments caught my attention here.
Here's the thing: this story IS dark. And not "fun dark" or whatever, it's actually, as Curious put it, abusive and horrifying. Which is fine, I like a dark story now and then, but I find it a little disturbing that I'm not meant to view this story in that way and instead just see it as "unhealthy relationships", and to some extent root for Ruby or even Fluttershy in what they're doing. The problem is that Rainbow is correct, what's happening to her is rape. Fluttershy is twisted and manipulative and basically is grooming her friend to make her accepting of the abuse and sexual activities she's not comfortable with, and Rainbow's reason for being accepting of being victimized is odd.
It doesn't matter if some of the activities are things that she might enjoy or have discovered on her own, because she didn't -- she was deliberately preyed on and forced into things she was not willing or ready for, and the suggestion that by taking some control of her own she's somehow empowered or "discovering" her own sexuality or "awakening" or whatever doesn't change the fact that she's a victim and that Fluttershy and Ruby did deplorable things in the first place. It's like saying that forcing someone to have sex is okay in the end because they would have naturally tried having sex and enjoyed it anyway -- it really should go without saying that it doesn't work that way, and no amount of "after care" conversations would change that.
There's just a really disturbing disconnect for me here in that the things that are happening in the story are abusive, cruel, and horrible -- but I'm getting the impression that I'm not supposed to feel that way as a reader? And that's honestly enough to put me off reading it.
8532187 You know what? You're right. It clearly falls under coercion, which is very much rape. I was thinking small scale for the chapter, but it's still a dark story even as far as that goes. That's what happens when you don't read your own story for a few months. What I was trying to get at with the question for curiouscurse was "What pushed you over the edge?". Before this chapter, Rainbow's already been raped. She's already been abused, even more physically than in this chapter. She's already been manipulated and coerced. So what about this chapter made it "darker" for her, in so much that curiouscurse pointed out "too much pain and betrayal" to the point that it was too much for them to bear reading? I don't like writing things that are so depressing people don't want to read them, and I wanted to know where that line fell in this story for that person. I'm aware that my line is probably way past where most readers would be. I've got a comfortable normal line in real life. Its easy.
Real life rules for where my line is: 1. Don't unnecessarily hurt people intentionally. This includes emotional. 2. Don't trick people to get what you want. Even if you think it will make them happy. 3. Be polite/nice in general, because you have no reason not to be.
Unfortunately, my reading writing line is almost nonexistent. It exists based on these rules:
Reading/writing rules for where my line is: 1. Don't intentionally hurt real people by reading/writing. (example of not okay would be reading someones diary, or maybe looking at stolen "nudes". Writing example would be picking on people, belittling, etc. To include groups of people. This might be done by writing "erotic friendfiction" or using characters that represent real people. This is much more expansive than just bullying though, which is one of the reasons I aggressively tag my stories.)
2. Don't hurt myself by reading/writing. (examples would be: Spend too much time or effort on something. Get so absorbed in a fictional world (to include social media or games) that I neglect important human things. (eating, sleeping, socializing, etc. Also contains: Don't write anything illegal where I live (possible, if I was political enough to care.)
And that's basically it. My lines are waay past most folks when it comes to reading/writing as a result. I've never stopped reading a story because it was too "dark" only because it simply lost my interest due to a number of factors. And honestly, that's very rare and almost always the result of "difficult to read" writing and grammar. So I want to know where other people fall on that. I got a good one where someone once posted "If I want to read about someones slow spiral into depression, I'll just watch my roommate instead" or something like that. I loved it, as that was not something I'd considered at that point! For me, any emotional experience is interesting to read, but I can see how others wouldn't like that. I've also heard from some people that they don't like these stories because they identify with the character so much it hurts them when the character is hurt. In general, I advise them to avoid the dark tag, but it's definitely something I need to consider!
So, that's the motivation for me asking. I want to know what made this chapter, which in my mind, while dark, isn't much worse than the other chapters for Dash abuse. I want to know why this is the one that brought them over the edge. The other motivation is that this story is loose. If it's Fluttershy's internal dialog that brought them over, that's fixable! There are probably twenty little things which are super flexible in this story, and I'll happily make it more palatable for someone that's been following along. Unfortunately if it's "the whole scene" well, that's kind of the content of this story. It has a lot of rape/abuse in it. And I can't fix that. But at least I'll know!
As far as the content, I'm not saying anything they did was okay! Not at all! But I will say that even when you are coerced into something you can find things out about yourself in it, and even turn it around. It's a terrible reality, but it unfortunately is. Starving people have found out that if they have to choose between bugs and trash, maybe bugs aren't so bad. Hey! Learned something! Unfortunately, abuse is like that in a terrible way. "Awekenings" aren't always a good thing. See most bad guy's back-stories. Heck the whole "open your eyes" song in the new movie is kind of about exactly that. In many cases(certainly not all, and the exact % is arguable), that's where abusers come from, but that's a different story. In this story, Rainbow is very unlikely to turn into an intentional abuser.
And more to the point, right now none of them are supposed to be "intentional" abusers. Fluttershy is convincing herself that she's doing this to help Dash adjust/escape. Ruby thinks it's his responsibility and/or right. Dash thinks she has to do this in order to eventually win Fluttershy's heart (or just not lose it to that asshole, Ruby-->the actual motivation). From the characters perspectives, they are doing something "fun" but they all know it's also wrong, but can't pin exactly why (Ruby thinks he's supposed to, Dash thinks she has to in order to achieve her goals, and Shy thinks she is 'helping' but is starting to reluctantly understand that maybe she isn't). Hence why I called it "Darkly fun" for all three of them. Not for the reader, mind you. You get to see what they're thinking, so you get to see the more broad spectrum of "abusive, cruel, and horrible." You should be taking that away. I just want to know why this bit is worse than the last few bits, I'm not trying to say "it's just fine. She's been raped and now she's okay with it" because she sure as hell is not, and it sure as hell is not.
What I was trying to point out is that Dash is not spiraling into depression or madness. She is taking methodical steps towards her goal that make sense to her character based on what she's observed and experienced. Once again, I do not think this is good for her or something the reader should be rooting for.
Wow. All that to explain my comments! Behold, full on sperging! You are point on the story though. Fluttershy is grooming her friend, albeit unwittingly. To reiterate, nothing that's happening is okay, and if you are rooting for ANY character right now based on their decision's, you're probably wrong. Dash had some leeway for a bit, but made some very bad decisions in the last four chapters that put her on the list of "arguably at fault here" that includes four characters(drunken Twi). Her motivations are rooted in what she wants, but is she really considering what Shy actually wants? Admittedly, you could root for Dash to get the fuck out of dodge, and that would be okay, but that's not what she's decided the last three times she had the option.
I'm surprised I still have to say this, but I don't condone anything that's happening in this story. Let me re-iterate.
ANYTHING.
I just like to watch it.
As far as the after-care, that was supposed to be more of the two talking it out. Which is more supposed to help explain to the characters (just Shy and Dash) what each other is thinking/feeling after the thing. Also to see Dash lie and say she's fine, but that's just another dark thing. Part of it would be both of them re-addressing their censored thoughts and internal dialogues.
Also, when I say unhealthy relationships, I'm using it because it's a broad term, not because it's soft. It covers a much wider array of "things" than just abusive relationships, codependent, etc. Here's a list from the University of Washington health center about what makes a relationship "unhealthy". I bolded things that this story already includes, and italicized things it probably will at some point.
Put one person before the other by neglecting yourself or your partner Feel pressure to change who you are for the other person Feel worried when you disagree with the other person Feel pressure to quit activities you usually/used to enjoy Pressure the other person into agreeing with you or changing to suit you better Notice one of you has to justify your actions (e.g., where you go, who you see) Notice one partner feels obligated to have sex or has been forced (double bold) Have a lack of privacy, and may be forced to share everything with the other person You or your partner refuse to use safer sex methods ( oh hey. Ignore this. But don't. But do.) Notice arguments are not settled fairly Experience yelling or physical violence during an argument Attempt to control or manipulate each other Notice your partner attempts to controls how you dress and criticizes your behaviors (soon...) Do not make time to spend with one another Have no common friends, or have a lack of respect for each others’ friends and family Notice an unequal control of resources (e.g., food, money, home, car, etc.)(fuck it. Going for gold. Gonna add this later.) Experience a lack of fairness and equality ---- I honestly think unhealthy relationship is the most accurate way to describe what's going on here, even if it comes off as soft. I certainly don't mean it soft. I mean it in a way that's worse than just rape. (holy crap I just typed that.) It's rape, then staying around your abuser, then doing it again, then compromising a little here and there untill... well... I dunno. But it's sure not gonna be good. And it includes friends as well...
Hey! I loved this comment! It made me really analyze what's happening here and what I'm saying! Thanks! If you want to stop reading because you don't like the content, I won't lose any sleep over it. But if you want to stop reading because you think I want you to think "everything is just fine", then... well, that's not what I want you to think but you do what you need to. lol. Ehh, that's enough sperging for now. Seriously though, thanks for the critical comment, and feel free to tear this apart!
Summary: Darkly fun for the characters, unhealthy relationships is way more accurate for what I'm doing, I CONDONE NOTHING IN THIS STORY WHY DO YOU THINK I DO OH GOD WHAT HAVE I DONE WRONG THIS TIME?, and "REEEEEEEEIIIIIIIIEIIEIEIEIEIEIeeeeeee!"
*minor grammar edit (fixed a that too much that for as well can be much too. You know.)
8532102 Cool! Thanks for the feedback! I can absolutely play with the monologue stuff a little based on what you said! Thanks! I'll try to figure out what to do with the rabbit analogy. Unfortuantely, this as 7k words of just porn, so there was nowhere not porn to put it unless I made a space, and it needs to be close to that point. Maybe I'll mix it up a little somehow...
As far as the scene where Dash gets pissed, it's more about what she's seeing. She saw Shy "finish", and she heard Shy make noises like she's being hurt. She also see's that Ruby is not stopping, and is actively ignoring Shy's well being to get off. This is not something that Dash has experienced/seen, so she feels like Ruby is hurting Shy. Shy and Ruby don't mind, as they've experienced this sort of thing before, and Shy doesn't mind Ruby hurting her in this way at all. Rainbow does not know this, as all of her experiences with watching Shy and Ruby so far have been more "two sided". Maybe I should figure out how to include it in the story better...
8531974 Thanks! Gonna include that. Appreciate the feedback! Can't promise the next chapter will have much Ruby though. Man. Balancing three characters for attention is more difficult than I thought it would be. lol.
Is it because I skipped over the after care? Honestly, I really wanted to write it out but also just wanted to post this. I can add it in the next chapter, or make a quick in-between chapter for it.
Oh, I love after care stuff. If you do decide to put it in there somewhere I certainly wouldn't complain.
8531670 Not sure if that's sarcasm but it was honestly the fact that rd has been dub-con to non-con this who story right up until she gets stockholme syndrome paired with fluttershy kinda brushing off her concerns.
RD is a prisoner to here own character here, betrayed by a friend she would never leave. maybe CTS spoiled me but all this painful rapey stuff and psychological horror kills it for me.
Specifically I stopped shortly after the masterbation scene where everyone is "a lion" now because it hinted that this "consent" was going to constantly remain an unhealthy and dangerous relationship through the whole thing, but that was more just the straw that broke the back than anything.
8534244 Not at all sarcasm! Sorry, I'm bad about that. I'm deathly serious. I love when people tell me I go over the line, and expecially when they tell me why. I really do like negative comments much more than positive ones. They get me thinking and challange me more! I appreciate knowing what gets to be too much for folks in stories like these.
Yup! That is a good reason to bail. This is only going to get weirdly worse. She is in fact a prisoner to her character. She has the keys to escape. One of the things I like about this is it takes what seems like a (not really) harmless fantasy at first and explains why it's not a good idea in the long run. All the details around it work out to be quite disturbing once you dig into them. The longer you dig into them, the more weird and twisted things have to get for this to go on. The only way this really could have been "less dark" is if it was for a much shorter time or Rainbow was more into this from the get go. Both of those would still be unhealthy in their own way, but it would be more palatable.
One of the things I thought about when I originally started writing on this site was about old horror movies and how they always cut away right when the worst was about to happen. I made an effort to do the opposite, and highlight the "worst". In a way, I've kinda taken that a bit further. It might be a hot fantasy, but what happens to the characters when it's actually happening? What about when it's over?
Somebody's fantasy is somebody elses nightmare, but we tend to skip that. That's one of the things Rainbow notes when she first sees Shy's collection. It was kind of foreshadowing for how the story was going to go.
Imagine if Dash had left in the dinner table scene, basically saying "screw it. I'm done." That would have been less dark, but the fallout with these characters would still be... very unhealthy. She'd be pining for Shy, Shy would feel guilty now that Rainbow was gone, and Ruby would feel "cheated". How would that play out? I actually regret my decision now. lol. I kind of want to write that story. Hmm... New idea for later then.
That being said, I don't intend for this to be doom and gloom 100% of the time all the way through, but at some point Rainbow is going to settle into something like a routine here. All three of them will "normalize" in some way. That fact alone should have been disturbing from the beginning, and now we (myself included, I hadn't explored this out yet) know why!
Anyways, I'm serious about the comment. Next time I write a story I'll keep you in mind for "dark" levels and hope I do better at staying just on the side of interesting for you. Actually, mind if I send a thing to you to pre-read when I get around to finishing it? It's something that is dark but I really don't want to cross that line. I want it to be "intriguing dark" instead of "repulsively dark". It's related indirectly to my Android story...
My first draft of the story didn't have the bunny thing, didn't have Shy's inner dialogue, and was basically pure pornography. You probably would have liked it better, but I didn't want to keep it like that in this story.
Besides, now that Dash has killed her Angel, what will her devil make her do? It's questions like these that keep me going...
8532492 Whup I was definitely not expecting an essay response complete with references offa that, lemme tell you.
Um let's see how to explain/clarify...
that put her on the list of "arguably at fault here"
This is actually an example of what I meant I was uncomfortable with. The thing is, she is NOT at fault for any abuse or non-con. At all. Period. She could strip naked, park herself in the living room and shout emasculating insults to Ruby, and would that be stupid? Obviously yes. But if he decides to prey on her stupidity, she is not somehow responsible for his choice to do so, he is still solely responsible. Suggesting she's at fault for her own exploitation and abuse makes excuses for the horrible things the other characters are doing, and accordingly, downplays their severity. Victim-blaming and excusing the bad shit was a common theme in the story itself which is fine, that's the characters, but then it started showing up in comments (among other themes) and that was just a little much for me. Lesson learned on avoiding the comment sections, I guess.
Not sure if you wanted my two cents on what's dark here, but if you did -- I'd say probably Fluttershy, and to some extent Rainbow's acceptance (in a sense... or maybe her breaking/giving up on whatever resistance she had previously? Not sure how to word it) Like--Fluttershy was a shitty person from the word 'go' here, but she was just selfish and shockingly dismissive and uncaring of Rainbow's feelings and well-being before. In this chapter she managed to cross over into actively preying on and exploiting her own friend. She makes token gestures to "free" her friend knowing full well Rainbow won't take them, and when those efforts predictably fail she rolls right into using Rainbow's crush and her knowledge of her old friend to manipulate and coerce her into having sex that is very unhealthy for Rainbow at this point with someone she knows Rainbow considers to be her rapist. Given that Rainbow is incredibly self-destructive in this story, Fluttershy's betrayal is extra horrible because she's the one person who might be able to actually help her--but instead she goes with exploiting her vulnerabilities to groom her to her preferred lifestyle. She's kinda sociopathic, actually.
Anyway! That's what I'd consider dark here. You've written some very complex and interesting characters, but none of them are particularly likeable at this point -- which probably comes with the territory for the kind of story that this is, honestly, though it can make it tough to read.
8534795 I actually respect this. I don't know if I'll continue... but I'll. leave a like just so that others might see this eye opener about how dark the attraction of non-con/dub-con gets. It's a concept seldom explored in this light and there are a lot of rape fics that try to make light of the events... maybe you shouldn't butcher the dark side of this yet, maybe just add a few consequences to these actions and possibly even explore ruby's questions about his own morality. I've got a few ideas on where it could go that might make it bearable but I don't have the mindset that allows me to gave into that void and not become seriously unnerved, partially due to personal reasons.
PM me a link if you want me to preread something or discuss this a little more openly.
8534942 Cool! Thanks for the comment and the discussion! I love discussion, so I'm gonna keep poking you with this to see what comes up. If you don't like discussion, then thanks for the comment, and the bottom half of this is actual response!
My point with Rainbow being on the list of "arguably at fault" is that Rainbow knows what's going to happen to her here. At this point, the grand scheme of what's happening to her is not a surprise to her, just the details. So if she knows this is the "most likely" outcome, has an option for other choices and chooses the path with this as "the most likely outcome". This is not stupidity, this is a conscious decision. At what point does it become her fault? Will it ever? What about if along this path she gets somebody else hurt? Is that her fault, or Ruby's, or Shy's?
I'm well aware that this leads to dangerous territory. I don't think the victim is ever at fault. But when does somebody stop being a victim? Because that really does happen at some point. Child soldiers become adult murderers. Sexual abuse victims can become abusers. It's easier to identify when they are separate instances and separate "victims/perpetrators". But what if someone starts to abuse their abuser? The original victim is still not at fault, but now they are at fault for a new "Event". Is it revenge? Does it make it okay because the old abuser "deserves it?"
I've met a rare few amount of people who are incorrigible assholes, the true "archetypal" predator types but they are real. And I've been forced to spend time with them on occasion. Most of them share a similar story, and it involves really bad parents. It's almost always parents when the person is so odious they can barely hide it under a sheen of fake charisma. If you've met them, you know the type. If not, lucky you. That does not forgive them for what they are and what they've done. They are still victims, but they are absolutely fucking at fault.
In this story, so far at least, Rainbow had a pretty clear inkling of what was going to happen to her from the beginning. She has had many opportunities to bow out, or make this stop somehow. She's actually (very much intentionally on my part BTW) been a cog that keeps this going. In the first chapter, she's the real reason Ruby ends up with the writs. In the second one, she had to make the decision about the princess cards. In the third and fourth one, she could have walked away in more than one place or just not came back and it would have been fine. In the fifth she also punches Ruby (which is actually okay because I'd throw that cleanly under self defense, but it still pushes the story along). In the sixth one, she shuts down Ruby's fear and assures him that the deal is still on.
The sixth one in my mind, is the start of the turning point for her. It's where it gets kinda hazy to the reader how willing or unwilling she is after this point. She makes a conscious decision where she weighs her experience with what happened vs potential "rewards" and decides that the experience was worth it in some way. (They are three all wrong here, BTW). Any of the princesses, assuming they are sane, would get them out of this situation. Rainbow probably knows this. She is fully aware she has a few ways out that are clean. Her motivation isn't to protect Fluttershy like she keeps telling herself but to kick out Ruby. That's really it. She wants him gone, but she's unwilling to let it happen from outside forces because she's too proud. It has to be her, Ruby, and Shy that settle this in her mind. She tells him the deal is still on, and then goes upstairs and makes plans for when her and Shy kick him out. He believes she's being honest. She's trapped by her desire to be the "number 1", but what does that mean for everybody else?
Dash is still 100% a victim, but she's a very real cog in what's happening and the story wouldn't be able to progress the same way at all if she was able to let go of a few issues. Of course, the same could be said about Ruby. He just doesn't realize what's going on just yet. You think Fluttershy is just grooming Dash? Ruby has no fucking idea what's going down, and Shy doesn't quite understand either. But Dash realized it early, and is keenly aware of the situation moreso than the other two characters. The first time she saw Ruby and Shy together, it goes: "Dash realized something terrifying—Fluttershy was in charge. She was playing Ruby and was putting on a show for Dash".
Same chapter Dash thinks this: "But Fluttershy wasn’t going to let her leave, and Fluttershy was going to make Dash become like she was."
Dash knew, and still knows what Fluttershy is going to do. She is aware that Shy intends to "groom" her, even if she doesn't know the word for it. This is not nearly as much a surprise for her as it seems to be to the readers. She has made the conscious choice to participate several times because she's been willing to go through with this. She can't organize her thoughts for shit, but it's still in there and pops up every now and then. It's been part of her active censoring. Was she emotionaly prepared? Nope. She was most certainly not. And she's a very emotional character.
The reason I think the dinner table conversation was the turning point for her was she had enough information. She knew that this was too much for her emotionally, but she still decided to keep going because pride and pride alone.
Oddly, Fluttershy had no idea it was going to turn out quite like this. She was too caught up in her own excitement to really think it through for the other characters or even herself. It's not so much that she's sociopathic as it was consuming wishful thinking on her part coupled with short sightedness when it came to relationships. She really wants it to be the case that everybody is happy, so as long as Dash pretends she'll keep pretending everything is fine. Dash is also somewhat aware of this, so she's acting like a sick bird and doing her best to pretend that nothing is wrong. (real coping mechanism, unfortunately.)
Once again, I do not condone anything in this story, and I don't condone victim blaming. But while dash has been victimized, she is at least arguably at fault for the situation she's in. I think it's silly to say she had no part in building this situation. Note, I even put drunken Twilight on that list. I do not think she is responsible for the rape/abuse either, because it never occurred to her that it might happen. The aforementioned bits are really because I like discussion and thinking about things. Sorry!
()()()()()() Skip to here
I completely agree with you about the situation you described, but what if instead of de-masculating things she kept telling him it was okay and that this was what she wanted? While that's very clearly not what's happening with Ruby, it's very very close to what's happening with Fluttershy. And Fluttershy wants it so much to be true. The token Gestures to free Dash aren't just for Dash, they are actually more for herself. (for better or worse, its so she can feel less guilty) Even so, she'd take Dash up on them in an instant if Dash agreed...
But yeah, Fluttershy's acting a little straight up evil here. Her behavior in the most recent chapter is a result of a few things I hadn't planned on, namely a request from my SO. lol. If it's her sudden behavior in that chapter(three of a kind), I'm sorry. Blame her.
You are 100% right about likeable at the moment. They are all not very likable. That's why I wanted the "aftercare scene" for Shy and Dash to talk through some of their thoughts and open up about things a bit. Not to make up for what's happened, but to be more honest(about some things) with each other going forward. I think character growth can be a likable thing, but I need to see how it pans out. Maybe it makes them worse. Dunno. I'm also serious about retconning this story if people really don't like specific things, I am not too attached to anything really in it.
Goddamnit. Manifesto again. lol. Just gonna stop.
Seriously, thanks for the comments! I really appreciate you pointing exactly what made it darker for you. And I always want your two cents. Always.
9064681 Like my cold dead heart. Or I have another chapter I'm partway through writing and I just update sporadically every 6 months to a year. Weirdly, this is one of my least dead stories. lol. I'm just reallllly slow on updates.
Ok now this chapter definitely took things in a different direction.
The previous showed there was still conflict but it almost seemed like it was heading towards a more peaceful resolution. This chapter however has crossed passed peaceful and into unhealthy. While Ruby wasn't really the focus here, each member of this weird sexual tryst has started going down some pretty unhealthy directions, which really keeps things interesting.
Fluttershy it seems isn't as completely confident with her sexual lifestyle as we first believed. While she loves completely immersing herself in her debauchery, it seems this is usually without an emotional connection. here though with Rainbow Dash, she has now come into conflict with herself, realizing that while she absolutely loves what happened, she also feels immensely guilty with herself by using her friends crush to force her into a sexual experience she didn't want. She is trying to convince herself that Dash had given her permission, but she hasn't given in to that. I think part of the problem lies with the fact that she hasn't taken into account that the problem isn't solely with her actions, but also with Ruby's unintentional as some of them may have been. I think it stems from her as previously stated, non emotional level of sexuality, whereas Rainbow, a passionate person, brings everything into the experience, emotions included. It will be interesting to see how things progress from here and how Fluttershy starts to feel about things, whether she will continue to give into her lust or follow her kindness.
Rainbow was incredibly conflicted here and I think this was the complete turning point for her. She has broken somewhat now and with her desire to block out her thoughts on things constantly, it is just going to keep building on her until she completely snaps. Previous chapter it was clear that she had feelings for kind Fluttershy and didn't seem to know how to handle lusty Fluttershy, feeling a pull towards wanting to be the dominant to Fluttershy. Here however she seemed to completely give in, likely due to her depressed state over thinking Fluttershy would love Ruby and his dominance, over Rainbow. She tried to take control, to be like Fluttershy was, an in control sub, but she seemed to completely give in, and become the sub to Fluttershy, something I think the yellow mare hasn't completely realized yet either. The curious thing here is taht while she is more emotionally connected to Fluttershy, she seems to find more sexual comfort in Ruby, a fact that seems to disgust her. It may be that while Rainbow has a crush on Fluttershy, she is actually straight, or has a preference to men rather then woman, and is now having to try and understand this fact due to how long she has gone giving her sexuality any thought.
She is in a very unhealthy place right now, seemingly willing leashing herself to Ruby, so that Fluttershy can truly be her master, seeing Ruby as more of a tool, like one of the sex toys on Fluttershys nightstand. Fluttershy is the one who is control here. However this mentality seems to have poisoned her feelings for the kind animal loving mare. She refuses to let herself truly process things and so she keeps slipping further and further down a very dark path that might end up really messing with her head. Fluttershy isn't completely oblivious too this, but she can't seem to really understand the cause and so keeps making it worse in the process.
Ruby didn't have much presence her, but I feel that worked for the best. Right now he is happy but somewhat confused about what just happened. However I think once he sees how the two mares interact with each other and with him when he awakens, it might start getting him to think about things a bit deeper. Oddly enough I think he will probably start feeling a bit more sympathetic to Rainbow if he can actually work out Fluttershy's role in hurting Rainbow here.
All in all I think this chapter has taken things on a different path then I had initially thought, a darker path. But this also means there is a lot of new potential as well. I think the next chapter with them all awake and not in a sexual state will really be interesting to read as all the characters adjust to the changes they are all undergoing. Awesome work.
I was recently wondering whether this would be updated, and then bam, 14K-word update. Praise Celestia, for she hath provided …
Good stuff. My favorite has to be Flutters getting ass-fucked right above Rainbow – that’s gonna be a happy thought for a long time. The only mild critique I may offer is that the inner monologuing gets a little lengthy at times, especially when it’s in the middle of sex scenes. I suggest reserving them for when there’re less immediate things happening between the characters. But as I said, that’s just a nitpick – still hot as hell.
Also:
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Damn. One day short.
The abusive angle was played on too hard here and it became too much for me to bear reading. Too much pain and betrayal in a character that is slowly losing her mind to abusive doms and is held in place by morals that have been taken to far. This story takes depravity to a new level, owing much to the admittedly quality writing and yet that only makes the content that much more horrifying.
...seriously, have you spoken to a psychiatrist lately?
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What can I say? I aim to please. lol. We'll see how long the next one takes to come out. Hopefully sooner. Interesting on the inner monologuing. I actually do that on purpose, otherwise the sex scenes get boring for me. I like to know what characters are thinking and feeling. I can try to break it up a little more and spread it out. Thanks for the feedback on it! I'll adjust it for the next chapter, let me know how it turns out!!
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OOh! Sweet! I love comments like this! Where was the turning point for you? The original run through didn't have Fluttershy arguing with herself, so all that and related thoughts+ the bite interaction were added later because I felt she needed more depth in the scene. It certainly made this quite a bit darker. While it's certainly dark, it was nowhere near super dark in my mind. I want to know what made it over the top for you! Is it because I skipped over the after care? Honestly, I really wanted to write it out but also just wanted to post this. I can add it in the next chapter, or make a quick in-between chapter for it.
The "triangle" was my SO's input, and while I felt it was a little early in the story for them to be getting that "heavy" with each other, I think I made it work a little. Was that the turning point? Shy does come off as a little cold right there. I can fix that up. I didn't want this to be too negative/dark, so I can clean it up a little if you give me some points where it was too much. Half of RD's perspective is really supposed to be about a sort of awakening on her part, she accepts that she likes certain things and (sometimes, not all the time) being treated a certain way. That was supposed to be covered in the after care bit where she talks it out with Shy. I need to add it for sure now. In fact, there are two times when Rainbow is actually the instigator on Shy in these two chapters. Rainbow and Shy both like these times, and for some reason I skipped over them a little. Doh!
lol about the psychiatrist. I assure you, I'm actually a very stable person. I don't let my characters/stories influence my real life relationships and activities. I'm fully aware that the characters are in unhealthy relationships. One of the things I like to write about is unhealthy relationships. It's like watching that "crazy ex girlfriend" show, or a soap opera. Nobody in a soap opera has a healthy relationship, and if they really do, one of them is going to die and the other is going to get into an unhealthy relationship. It's great for people like me to watch...
To re-iterate -
Let me know what put it over the top, and I probably will retcon this chapter just a touch to make it lighter. It wasn't supposed to be off puttingly dark (yet). It was supposed to be "darkly fun" for all three of them with underlying themes of "did we take this too far?" and "what/how are we feeling about this?". It is supposed to be unhealthy though, not gonna lie. I greatly appreciate the feedback!
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You seem to like the dark turn! Cool. Counterpoised to CuriousCurse, can you give me an honest opinion on if I should make it less/more dark here or keep it the same? I'm gonna do what I do, but I like input and will happily shape the story accordingly. Like I said, the plot lines for this one are "loose" so I can keep writing it whenever or change things a bit whenever.
You have an interesting character analysis which is a ton of fun to read and think about! You are spot on about Fluttershy's lack of "emotional connection" compared to Dash's passion for things. For Dash, she goes full in when she does things, while Shy keeps her sex life and regular life usually very separate. One of the backstories I was going to have was going to be an old relationship of Shy's where the stallion involved got upset because she had no real desire to keep the relationship "serious". Instead she wanted to fool around and have fun, which was not something he necessarily wanted. I nixed it for now, but he might show back up.
Interestingly, I don't see Rainbow as "broken" here. She makes a decision to be an "actor" instead of an "acted on" in the little play on lions. The poor little rabbit is supposed to represent her fear, reluctance, and timidity with sexual things. She's at least momentarily willing to tackle her sexuality head on. Admittedly, she still self censors a bunch, but that's because she hasn't decided on how she really feels about things just yet and doesn't want to spend forever defining her feelings on things. Instead of worrying about her feelings, she rushed forward and tried to ignore them as much as she could. Ruby describes her as "determined" and he's not wrong. She has a goal, and is very clearly making steps towards her goal, even if they seem counter intuitive. Part of accepting her sexuality is accepting Fluttershy's, which is one of the core themes for her (which you noticed through Ruby by the way) through these two chapters. Fluttershy likes toys. Rainbow lets Fluttershy use her like a toy, because Rainbow wants Fluttershy to like her (like Ruby, but idealy more so). You are also spot on with how she sees Ruby in this encounter. She actively reduces him to just a penis a few times because it's easier for her to process him as a living dildo than as "Ruby" here and there. Then again, there are a few times where "Ruby" is more exciting for her than just a penis... There are a few levels like this going on, and it's actually an almost conscious decision of Rainbows in the last chapter. Is this healthy? No. Is it what Rainbow wants? Maybe. She's willing to try it for a while to see what comes with it. She notes that accepting Fluttershy's intimacy means accepting "everything that goes with it." and she's still deciding if that's what she wants or not. Rainbow needs time to process things, so she's gonna work through some things in her mind, one way or the other real soon. As far as her sexuality with Ruby, it's a little more... complex... than straight or gay for poor Rainbow. But that's for later Rainbow to worry about.
And yeah, this could get very unhealthy very quickly if they don't think things through a little more. But I also feel like that's why they would at this point. People don't tend to act until the last moment for whatever reason. Anyways, feedback on too dark/dark enough would be appreciated! Thanks for the awesome comment!
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I think adding in an aftercare scene would be a good idea. I personally don't mind the darkness of the scene itself, as unlike other stories that involve slavery and non consensual sex, this story takes a very unique approach to everything, and that makes it all the more interesting for me. However an after care scene or some bigger indication of Rainbow's thought pattern as you described here (awesome thought patterns here by the way, very in depth Rainbow) would lessen the discomfort for those not as comfortable with dark scenes, and it would also help the characters along figuring out how they feel about things now on a more personal level before a more group decision ends up happening in a future chapter.
I think everypony's level of involvement here worked well, taking on the right level of focus and being in the right viewpoint for the scenes. Next chapter should probably have more Ruby involvement and let us see a bit more of how he is feeling now, but that would work better after he has a better look at Fluttershy and Rainbow in the morning.
Overall while I didn't see any problems with the chapter or its tone, I can understand where CuriousCase is coming from and adding in a scene with some calming down and returning to normal tones, would be a good idea for readers who aren't as interested in darker themes.
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Re: the inner monologues – to elaborate a little, my issue (and again, this is more of a nitpick) isn’t necessarily with the presence of the monologues, but that they interrupt the sex with lengthy meanderings that often don’t contain anything very sexy, other than an occasional mention that sex was happening. If you insert more frequent and graphic descriptions of the action into the monologues (at least a couple times a graf or something), they’d feel more like sidebars and less like intermissions.
A related nitpick, and this one’s even more subjective, but: The rabbit analogy was apt, but it felt kinda out-of-place in the middle of a sex scene like that. One minute I’m enjoying the action, the next I’m reading about terrified bunnies and bloody fangs and … it kinda made the mood go hide in a corner for a second. The imagery, y’know? I wouldn’t delete it or anything, but maybe reserve for before the action, or afterwards.
… Dangit, now I think about it, there’s one last thing I wanna mention. I understood that Dash and Flutters approached the situation from very different angles and thus had very different reactions until now. But I gotta admit, it got a little eye-roll-inducing to see Dash still misinterpret Flutters’ reaction to getting fucked as one of being abused. She’s been both told and shown, repeatedly and clearly, that Flutters wants everything Ruby has to give her and that she enjoys it rough. I understand Dash has a big crush on Shy and will understandably be both highly protective of her and predisposed to think the worst of Ruby, but her thinking Ruby was hurting Shy just made her seem annoyingly thick. She doesn’t have to enjoy Ruby being rough with Shy, but she should at least grok that Shy is okay with it.
Okay, that’s all the nitpicking, I promise. I don’t wanna give the wrong impression; I really did enjoy the chapter and I love the story as a whole.
I wasn't gonna comment originally but the conversation in comments caught my attention here.
Here's the thing: this story IS dark. And not "fun dark" or whatever, it's actually, as Curious put it, abusive and horrifying. Which is fine, I like a dark story now and then, but I find it a little disturbing that I'm not meant to view this story in that way and instead just see it as "unhealthy relationships", and to some extent root for Ruby or even Fluttershy in what they're doing. The problem is that Rainbow is correct, what's happening to her is rape. Fluttershy is twisted and manipulative and basically is grooming her friend to make her accepting of the abuse and sexual activities she's not comfortable with, and Rainbow's reason for being accepting of being victimized is odd.
It doesn't matter if some of the activities are things that she might enjoy or have discovered on her own, because she didn't -- she was deliberately preyed on and forced into things she was not willing or ready for, and the suggestion that by taking some control of her own she's somehow empowered or "discovering" her own sexuality or "awakening" or whatever doesn't change the fact that she's a victim and that Fluttershy and Ruby did deplorable things in the first place. It's like saying that forcing someone to have sex is okay in the end because they would have naturally tried having sex and enjoyed it anyway -- it really should go without saying that it doesn't work that way, and no amount of "after care" conversations would change that.
There's just a really disturbing disconnect for me here in that the things that are happening in the story are abusive, cruel, and horrible -- but I'm getting the impression that I'm not supposed to feel that way as a reader? And that's honestly enough to put me off reading it.
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You know what? You're right. It clearly falls under coercion, which is very much rape. I was thinking small scale for the chapter, but it's still a dark story even as far as that goes. That's what happens when you don't read your own story for a few months. What I was trying to get at with the question for curiouscurse was "What pushed you over the edge?". Before this chapter, Rainbow's already been raped. She's already been abused, even more physically than in this chapter. She's already been manipulated and coerced. So what about this chapter made it "darker" for her, in so much that curiouscurse pointed out "too much pain and betrayal" to the point that it was too much for them to bear reading? I don't like writing things that are so depressing people don't want to read them, and I wanted to know where that line fell in this story for that person. I'm aware that my line is probably way past where most readers would be. I've got a comfortable normal line in real life. Its easy.
Real life rules for where my line is:
1. Don't unnecessarily hurt people intentionally. This includes emotional.
2. Don't trick people to get what you want. Even if you think it will make them happy.
3. Be polite/nice in general, because you have no reason not to be.
Unfortunately, my reading writing line is almost nonexistent. It exists based on these rules:
Reading/writing rules for where my line is:
1. Don't intentionally hurt real people by reading/writing. (example of not okay would be reading someones diary, or maybe looking at stolen "nudes". Writing example would be picking on people, belittling, etc. To include groups of people. This might be done by writing "erotic friendfiction" or using characters that represent real people. This is much more expansive than just bullying though, which is one of the reasons I aggressively tag my stories.)
2. Don't hurt myself by reading/writing. (examples would be: Spend too much time or effort on something. Get so absorbed in a fictional world (to include social media or games) that I neglect important human things. (eating, sleeping, socializing, etc. Also contains: Don't write anything illegal where I live (possible, if I was political enough to care.)
And that's basically it. My lines are waay past most folks when it comes to reading/writing as a result. I've never stopped reading a story because it was too "dark" only because it simply lost my interest due to a number of factors. And honestly, that's very rare and almost always the result of "difficult to read" writing and grammar. So I want to know where other people fall on that. I got a good one where someone once posted "If I want to read about someones slow spiral into depression, I'll just watch my roommate instead" or something like that. I loved it, as that was not something I'd considered at that point! For me, any emotional experience is interesting to read, but I can see how others wouldn't like that. I've also heard from some people that they don't like these stories because they identify with the character so much it hurts them when the character is hurt. In general, I advise them to avoid the dark tag, but it's definitely something I need to consider!
So, that's the motivation for me asking. I want to know what made this chapter, which in my mind, while dark, isn't much worse than the other chapters for Dash abuse. I want to know why this is the one that brought them over the edge. The other motivation is that this story is loose. If it's Fluttershy's internal dialog that brought them over, that's fixable! There are probably twenty little things which are super flexible in this story, and I'll happily make it more palatable for someone that's been following along. Unfortunately if it's "the whole scene" well, that's kind of the content of this story. It has a lot of rape/abuse in it. And I can't fix that. But at least I'll know!
As far as the content, I'm not saying anything they did was okay! Not at all! But I will say that even when you are coerced into something you can find things out about yourself in it, and even turn it around. It's a terrible reality, but it unfortunately is. Starving people have found out that if they have to choose between bugs and trash, maybe bugs aren't so bad. Hey! Learned something! Unfortunately, abuse is like that in a terrible way. "Awekenings" aren't always a good thing. See most bad guy's back-stories. Heck the whole "open your eyes" song in the new movie is kind of about exactly that. In many cases(certainly not all, and the exact % is arguable), that's where abusers come from, but that's a different story. In this story, Rainbow is very unlikely to turn into an intentional abuser.
And more to the point, right now none of them are supposed to be "intentional" abusers. Fluttershy is convincing herself that she's doing this to help Dash adjust/escape. Ruby thinks it's his responsibility and/or right. Dash thinks she has to do this in order to eventually win Fluttershy's heart (or just not lose it to that asshole, Ruby-->the actual motivation). From the characters perspectives, they are doing something "fun" but they all know it's also wrong, but can't pin exactly why (Ruby thinks he's supposed to, Dash thinks she has to in order to achieve her goals, and Shy thinks she is 'helping' but is starting to reluctantly understand that maybe she isn't). Hence why I called it "Darkly fun" for all three of them. Not for the reader, mind you. You get to see what they're thinking, so you get to see the more broad spectrum of "abusive, cruel, and horrible." You should be taking that away. I just want to know why this bit is worse than the last few bits, I'm not trying to say "it's just fine. She's been raped and now she's okay with it" because she sure as hell is not, and it sure as hell is not.
What I was trying to point out is that Dash is not spiraling into depression or madness. She is taking methodical steps towards her goal that make sense to her character based on what she's observed and experienced. Once again, I do not think this is good for her or something the reader should be rooting for.
Wow. All that to explain my comments! Behold, full on sperging! You are point on the story though. Fluttershy is grooming her friend, albeit unwittingly. To reiterate, nothing that's happening is okay, and if you are rooting for ANY character right now based on their decision's, you're probably wrong. Dash had some leeway for a bit, but made some very bad decisions in the last four chapters that put her on the list of "arguably at fault here" that includes four characters(drunken Twi). Her motivations are rooted in what she wants, but is she really considering what Shy actually wants? Admittedly, you could root for Dash to get the fuck out of dodge, and that would be okay, but that's not what she's decided the last three times she had the option.
I'm surprised I still have to say this, but I don't condone anything that's happening in this story. Let me re-iterate.
ANYTHING.
I just like to watch it.
As far as the after-care, that was supposed to be more of the two talking it out. Which is more supposed to help explain to the characters (just Shy and Dash) what each other is thinking/feeling after the thing. Also to see Dash lie and say she's fine, but that's just another dark thing. Part of it would be both of them re-addressing their censored thoughts and internal dialogues.
Also, when I say unhealthy relationships, I'm using it because it's a broad term, not because it's soft. It covers a much wider array of "things" than just abusive relationships, codependent, etc. Here's a list from the University of Washington health center about what makes a relationship "unhealthy". I bolded things that this story already includes, and italicized things it probably will at some point.
From http://depts.washington.edu/hhpccweb/health-resource/healthy-vs-unhealthy-relationships/:
While in an unhealthy relationship you:
Put one person before the other by neglecting yourself or your partner
Feel pressure to change who you are for the other person
Feel worried when you disagree with the other person
Feel pressure to quit activities you usually/used to enjoy
Pressure the other person into agreeing with you or changing to suit you better
Notice one of you has to justify your actions (e.g., where you go, who you see)
Notice one partner feels obligated to have sex or has been forced (double bold)
Have a lack of privacy, and may be forced to share everything with the other person
You or your partner refuse to use safer sex methods ( oh hey. Ignore this. But don't. But do.)
Notice arguments are not settled fairly
Experience yelling or physical violence during an argument
Attempt to control or manipulate each other
Notice your partner attempts to controls how you dress and criticizes your behaviors (soon...)
Do not make time to spend with one another
Have no common friends, or have a lack of respect for each others’ friends and family
Notice an unequal control of resources (e.g., food, money, home, car, etc.)(fuck it. Going for gold. Gonna add this later.)
Experience a lack of fairness and equality
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I honestly think unhealthy relationship is the most accurate way to describe what's going on here, even if it comes off as soft. I certainly don't mean it soft. I mean it in a way that's worse than just rape. (holy crap I just typed that.) It's rape, then staying around your abuser, then doing it again, then compromising a little here and there untill... well... I dunno. But it's sure not gonna be good. And it includes friends as well...
Hey! I loved this comment! It made me really analyze what's happening here and what I'm saying! Thanks! If you want to stop reading because you don't like the content, I won't lose any sleep over it. But if you want to stop reading because you think I want you to think "everything is just fine", then... well, that's not what I want you to think but you do what you need to. lol. Ehh, that's enough sperging for now. Seriously though, thanks for the critical comment, and feel free to tear this apart!
Summary:
Darkly fun for the characters, unhealthy relationships is way more accurate for what I'm doing, I CONDONE NOTHING IN THIS STORY WHY DO YOU THINK I DO OH GOD WHAT HAVE I DONE WRONG THIS TIME?, and "REEEEEEEEIIIIIIIIEIIEIEIEIEIEIeeeeeee!"
*minor grammar edit (fixed a that too much that for as well can be much too. You know.)
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Cool! Thanks for the feedback! I can absolutely play with the monologue stuff a little based on what you said! Thanks! I'll try to figure out what to do with the rabbit analogy. Unfortuantely, this as 7k words of just porn, so there was nowhere not porn to put it unless I made a space, and it needs to be close to that point. Maybe I'll mix it up a little somehow...
As far as the scene where Dash gets pissed, it's more about what she's seeing. She saw Shy "finish", and she heard Shy make noises like she's being hurt. She also see's that Ruby is not stopping, and is actively ignoring Shy's well being to get off. This is not something that Dash has experienced/seen, so she feels like Ruby is hurting Shy. Shy and Ruby don't mind, as they've experienced this sort of thing before, and Shy doesn't mind Ruby hurting her in this way at all. Rainbow does not know this, as all of her experiences with watching Shy and Ruby so far have been more "two sided". Maybe I should figure out how to include it in the story better...
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Thanks! Gonna include that. Appreciate the feedback! Can't promise the next chapter will have much Ruby though. Man. Balancing three characters for attention is more difficult than I thought it would be. lol.
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Oh, I love after care stuff. If you do decide to put it in there somewhere I certainly wouldn't complain.
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Not sure if that's sarcasm but it was honestly the fact that rd has been dub-con to non-con this who story right up until she gets stockholme syndrome paired with fluttershy kinda brushing off her concerns.
RD is a prisoner to here own character here, betrayed by a friend she would never leave. maybe CTS spoiled me but all this painful rapey stuff and psychological horror kills it for me.
Specifically I stopped shortly after the masterbation scene where everyone is "a lion" now because it hinted that this "consent" was going to constantly remain an unhealthy and dangerous relationship through the whole thing, but that was more just the straw that broke the back than anything.
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Not at all sarcasm! Sorry, I'm bad about that. I'm deathly serious. I love when people tell me I go over the line, and expecially when they tell me why. I really do like negative comments much more than positive ones. They get me thinking and challange me more! I appreciate knowing what gets to be too much for folks in stories like these.
Yup! That is a good reason to bail. This is only going to get weirdly worse. She is in fact a prisoner to her character. She has the keys to escape. One of the things I like about this is it takes what seems like a (not really) harmless fantasy at first and explains why it's not a good idea in the long run. All the details around it work out to be quite disturbing once you dig into them. The longer you dig into them, the more weird and twisted things have to get for this to go on. The only way this really could have been "less dark" is if it was for a much shorter time or Rainbow was more into this from the get go. Both of those would still be unhealthy in their own way, but it would be more palatable.
One of the things I thought about when I originally started writing on this site was about old horror movies and how they always cut away right when the worst was about to happen. I made an effort to do the opposite, and highlight the "worst". In a way, I've kinda taken that a bit further. It might be a hot fantasy, but what happens to the characters when it's actually happening? What about when it's over?
Somebody's fantasy is somebody elses nightmare, but we tend to skip that. That's one of the things Rainbow notes when she first sees Shy's collection. It was kind of foreshadowing for how the story was going to go.
Imagine if Dash had left in the dinner table scene, basically saying "screw it. I'm done." That would have been less dark, but the fallout with these characters would still be... very unhealthy. She'd be pining for Shy, Shy would feel guilty now that Rainbow was gone, and Ruby would feel "cheated". How would that play out? I actually regret my decision now. lol. I kind of want to write that story. Hmm... New idea for later then.
That being said, I don't intend for this to be doom and gloom 100% of the time all the way through, but at some point Rainbow is going to settle into something like a routine here. All three of them will "normalize" in some way. That fact alone should have been disturbing from the beginning, and now we (myself included, I hadn't explored this out yet) know why!
Anyways, I'm serious about the comment. Next time I write a story I'll keep you in mind for "dark" levels and hope I do better at staying just on the side of interesting for you. Actually, mind if I send a thing to you to pre-read when I get around to finishing it? It's something that is dark but I really don't want to cross that line. I want it to be "intriguing dark" instead of "repulsively dark". It's related indirectly to my Android story...
My first draft of the story didn't have the bunny thing, didn't have Shy's inner dialogue, and was basically pure pornography. You probably would have liked it better, but I didn't want to keep it like that in this story.
Besides, now that Dash has killed her Angel, what will her devil make her do? It's questions like these that keep me going...
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Whup I was definitely not expecting an essay response complete with references offa that, lemme tell you.
Um let's see how to explain/clarify...
that put her on the list of "arguably at fault here"
This is actually an example of what I meant I was uncomfortable with. The thing is, she is NOT at fault for any abuse or non-con. At all. Period. She could strip naked, park herself in the living room and shout emasculating insults to Ruby, and would that be stupid? Obviously yes. But if he decides to prey on her stupidity, she is not somehow responsible for his choice to do so, he is still solely responsible. Suggesting she's at fault for her own exploitation and abuse makes excuses for the horrible things the other characters are doing, and accordingly, downplays their severity. Victim-blaming and excusing the bad shit was a common theme in the story itself which is fine, that's the characters, but then it started showing up in comments (among other themes) and that was just a little much for me. Lesson learned on avoiding the comment sections, I guess.
Not sure if you wanted my two cents on what's dark here, but if you did -- I'd say probably Fluttershy, and to some extent Rainbow's acceptance (in a sense... or maybe her breaking/giving up on whatever resistance she had previously? Not sure how to word it) Like--Fluttershy was a shitty person from the word 'go' here, but she was just selfish and shockingly dismissive and uncaring of Rainbow's feelings and well-being before. In this chapter she managed to cross over into actively preying on and exploiting her own friend. She makes token gestures to "free" her friend knowing full well Rainbow won't take them, and when those efforts predictably fail she rolls right into using Rainbow's crush and her knowledge of her old friend to manipulate and coerce her into having sex that is very unhealthy for Rainbow at this point with someone she knows Rainbow considers to be her rapist. Given that Rainbow is incredibly self-destructive in this story, Fluttershy's betrayal is extra horrible because she's the one person who might be able to actually help her--but instead she goes with exploiting her vulnerabilities to groom her to her preferred lifestyle. She's kinda sociopathic, actually.
Anyway! That's what I'd consider dark here. You've written some very complex and interesting characters, but none of them are particularly likeable at this point -- which probably comes with the territory for the kind of story that this is, honestly, though it can make it tough to read.
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I actually respect this. I don't know if I'll continue... but I'll. leave a like just so that others might see this eye opener about how dark the attraction of non-con/dub-con gets. It's a concept seldom explored in this light and there are a lot of rape fics that try to make light of the events... maybe you shouldn't butcher the dark side of this yet, maybe just add a few consequences to these actions and possibly even explore ruby's questions about his own morality. I've got a few ideas on where it could go that might make it bearable but I don't have the mindset that allows me to gave into that void and not become seriously unnerved, partially due to personal reasons.
PM me a link if you want me to preread something or discuss this a little more openly.
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Cool! Thanks for the comment and the discussion! I love discussion, so I'm gonna keep poking you with this to see what comes up. If you don't like discussion, then thanks for the comment, and the bottom half of this is actual response!
My point with Rainbow being on the list of "arguably at fault" is that Rainbow knows what's going to happen to her here. At this point, the grand scheme of what's happening to her is not a surprise to her, just the details. So if she knows this is the "most likely" outcome, has an option for other choices and chooses the path with this as "the most likely outcome". This is not stupidity, this is a conscious decision. At what point does it become her fault? Will it ever? What about if along this path she gets somebody else hurt? Is that her fault, or Ruby's, or Shy's?
I'm well aware that this leads to dangerous territory. I don't think the victim is ever at fault. But when does somebody stop being a victim? Because that really does happen at some point. Child soldiers become adult murderers. Sexual abuse victims can become abusers. It's easier to identify when they are separate instances and separate "victims/perpetrators". But what if someone starts to abuse their abuser? The original victim is still not at fault, but now they are at fault for a new "Event". Is it revenge? Does it make it okay because the old abuser "deserves it?"
I've met a rare few amount of people who are incorrigible assholes, the true "archetypal" predator types but they are real. And I've been forced to spend time with them on occasion. Most of them share a similar story, and it involves really bad parents. It's almost always parents when the person is so odious they can barely hide it under a sheen of fake charisma. If you've met them, you know the type. If not, lucky you. That does not forgive them for what they are and what they've done. They are still victims, but they are absolutely fucking at fault.
In this story, so far at least, Rainbow had a pretty clear inkling of what was going to happen to her from the beginning. She has had many opportunities to bow out, or make this stop somehow. She's actually (very much intentionally on my part BTW) been a cog that keeps this going. In the first chapter, she's the real reason Ruby ends up with the writs. In the second one, she had to make the decision about the princess cards. In the third and fourth one, she could have walked away in more than one place or just not came back and it would have been fine. In the fifth she also punches Ruby (which is actually okay because I'd throw that cleanly under self defense, but it still pushes the story along). In the sixth one, she shuts down Ruby's fear and assures him that the deal is still on.
The sixth one in my mind, is the start of the turning point for her. It's where it gets kinda hazy to the reader how willing or unwilling she is after this point. She makes a conscious decision where she weighs her experience with what happened vs potential "rewards" and decides that the experience was worth it in some way. (They are three all wrong here, BTW). Any of the princesses, assuming they are sane, would get them out of this situation. Rainbow probably knows this. She is fully aware she has a few ways out that are clean. Her motivation isn't to protect Fluttershy like she keeps telling herself but to kick out Ruby. That's really it. She wants him gone, but she's unwilling to let it happen from outside forces because she's too proud. It has to be her, Ruby, and Shy that settle this in her mind. She tells him the deal is still on, and then goes upstairs and makes plans for when her and Shy kick him out. He believes she's being honest. She's trapped by her desire to be the "number 1", but what does that mean for everybody else?
Dash is still 100% a victim, but she's a very real cog in what's happening and the story wouldn't be able to progress the same way at all if she was able to let go of a few issues. Of course, the same could be said about Ruby. He just doesn't realize what's going on just yet. You think Fluttershy is just grooming Dash? Ruby has no fucking idea what's going down, and Shy doesn't quite understand either. But Dash realized it early, and is keenly aware of the situation moreso than the other two characters. The first time she saw Ruby and Shy together, it goes: "Dash realized something terrifying—Fluttershy was in charge. She was playing Ruby and was putting on a show for Dash".
Same chapter Dash thinks this:
"But Fluttershy wasn’t going to let her leave, and Fluttershy was going to make Dash become like she was."
Dash knew, and still knows what Fluttershy is going to do. She is aware that Shy intends to "groom" her, even if she doesn't know the word for it. This is not nearly as much a surprise for her as it seems to be to the readers. She has made the conscious choice to participate several times because she's been willing to go through with this. She can't organize her thoughts for shit, but it's still in there and pops up every now and then. It's been part of her active censoring. Was she emotionaly prepared? Nope. She was most certainly not. And she's a very emotional character.
The reason I think the dinner table conversation was the turning point for her was she had enough information. She knew that this was too much for her emotionally, but she still decided to keep going because pride and pride alone.
Oddly, Fluttershy had no idea it was going to turn out quite like this. She was too caught up in her own excitement to really think it through for the other characters or even herself. It's not so much that she's sociopathic as it was consuming wishful thinking on her part coupled with short sightedness when it came to relationships. She really wants it to be the case that everybody is happy, so as long as Dash pretends she'll keep pretending everything is fine. Dash is also somewhat aware of this, so she's acting like a sick bird and doing her best to pretend that nothing is wrong. (real coping mechanism, unfortunately.)
Once again, I do not condone anything in this story, and I don't condone victim blaming. But while dash has been victimized, she is at least arguably at fault for the situation she's in. I think it's silly to say she had no part in building this situation. Note, I even put drunken Twilight on that list. I do not think she is responsible for the rape/abuse either, because it never occurred to her that it might happen. The aforementioned bits are really because I like discussion and thinking about things. Sorry!
()()()()()() Skip to here
I completely agree with you about the situation you described, but what if instead of de-masculating things she kept telling him it was okay and that this was what she wanted? While that's very clearly not what's happening with Ruby, it's very very close to what's happening with Fluttershy. And Fluttershy wants it so much to be true. The token Gestures to free Dash aren't just for Dash, they are actually more for herself. (for better or worse, its so she can feel less guilty) Even so, she'd take Dash up on them in an instant if Dash agreed...
But yeah, Fluttershy's acting a little straight up evil here. Her behavior in the most recent chapter is a result of a few things I hadn't planned on, namely a request from my SO. lol. If it's her sudden behavior in that chapter(three of a kind), I'm sorry. Blame her.
You are 100% right about likeable at the moment. They are all not very likable. That's why I wanted the "aftercare scene" for Shy and Dash to talk through some of their thoughts and open up about things a bit. Not to make up for what's happened, but to be more honest(about some things) with each other going forward. I think character growth can be a likable thing, but I need to see how it pans out. Maybe it makes them worse. Dunno. I'm also serious about retconning this story if people really don't like specific things, I am not too attached to anything really in it.
Goddamnit. Manifesto again. lol. Just gonna stop.
Seriously, thanks for the comments! I really appreciate you pointing exactly what made it darker for you. And I always want your two cents. Always.
So is this story dead
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Like my cold dead heart. Or I have another chapter I'm partway through writing and I just update sporadically every 6 months to a year. Weirdly, this is one of my least dead stories. lol. I'm just reallllly slow on updates.