Sometimes the most ominous words one can hear are: "We need to talk."
After the events of "Every Little Thing She Does," Twilight's friends get together with her to talk about Starlight Glimmer. It turns out her friends have some more concerns over just what's happened with Starlight and they explore how Twilight factors into things.
The girls go over some of the things they've learned in the past as they try to chart out a course for the future of Starlight Glimmer.
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Not bad for an obvious discourse on the treatment of Rainbow Dash by the writers over the past few seasons. I'm guessing by its exclusion from this story that you still haven't watched 28 Pranks Later, either?
7625796
While I obviously can't and won't hide my feelings over the treatment of my favorite character, it's not just about the fact that several episodes featuring her were awful (which is why I didn't go into detail about everything wrong about each of those episodes). It's more about how Twilight's portrayal as a teacher, and Starlight's as a student, made me question how the show was going about in "teaching" friendship lessons.
The writers' approach to Twilight this season has not sat well with me, and this is an attempt to explore some of those issues, plus the older ones with Rainbow Dash, to see what the common mistakes were.
I've read it and I just felt like skipping the second half when it got into it because it just turned into another "Rainbow Dash is the victim" type things and I've seen enough of that especially considering they're incredibly biased, short-sighted, etc that like to minimize or remove her accountability in each of these scenarios and push the blame onto someone else.
But let's ignore the bait-and-switch and stick with the Starlight Glimmer aspect.
Applejack and Rainbow Dash are incredibly narrow minded.
Does Starlight Glimmer immediately go to magic for her solutions? Yes but it makes sense. She's a unicorn so casting magic is something they do often. She's also incredibly talented at it so of course it's going to be her go to solutions. She also has a LONG shady past so it's not surprising she doesn't understand basic ethics sometimes.
It's like dealing with a person who has been smoking for 20 years. Even if you convince them that smoking is bad for their health and those around them and to stop, they're not just going to stop immediately. It's a habit. One that is ingrained in them (+addictive chemicals). They'll most likely relapse so you've got to be there to set them back on the road. Not throw massive fits at them because they messed up once or twice. (Seriously, Starlight only had two messups.).
And really, the girls shouldn't be talking about the Want It Need It spell.
First, I don't remember any of the girls actually being put under the spell so I'm not actually sure how they'll know what it's like to be put under it.
Also, they're trying to make excuses for Twilight. You see, no one put pressure on Twilight Sparkle for the friendship report, except Twilight Sparkle and she did it by coming up with a bunch of ridiculous, exaggerated, and unfounded fears. She may have tried to fix it in the end but it should have never gotten there in the first place.
7625807
Season Six has been all over the place, and some of the friendship lessons have been majorly Broken AEsops, and Every Little Thing had a huge one, which you addressed well.
Seriously, baking a cake with Pinkie Pie is not the friendship lesson. It's spending time with your friend. The big friendship lesson of the episode should have been that the way she was using magic was unfair to her friends, and not just the accidental brainwashing part (I might be more forgiving about that bit than others). I was more disturbed by her trying to use magic to make everything go faster so she could move on to the next "lesson." Rainbow would have had it right if the writers had let her just say it: Chillaxing. The lesson isn't in doing it so you can move on, it's about the time spent with the friend. The fact that Starlight asked how long she had to "chillax" for showed (to me) that she still hadn't learned her lesson even at the end. I mean, seriously... "Don't use magic on your friends" is like saying a one inch gopher moat won't stop a rampaging bear.
7625881
One of the biggest problems with the episode, besides the huge moral event horizon that Starlight crossed, was that it made me realize that 'teaching friendship' was a ridiculous idea on the face of it. While I know this story may come off as just another chance to stick it to a bunch of Rainbow Dash episodes that I hate, the issue is deeper than that. Most of the really bad Broken Aesop episodes (Mare Do Well, What About Discord, etc.) are the result of a character or characters deciding that they were going to "teach someone a lesson" i.e. force them to accept some conclusion that they wanted to get across. I question if you can really do that in general, but when it comes to issues of friendship in particular, that is a really awful idea.
It made me question if giving Twilight a student even worked. On the one hand, it brought her character full circle. But if Twilight's the Princess of Friendship, having her be a Celestia-style mentor doesn't work. Remember, she was Celestia's student for years and didn't learn a thing about friendship until she was away from her.
I was perfectly okay with Starlight joining the Mane cast, but I had severe misgivings after "No Second Prances." After this episode though, I questioned the entire premise of this season, which highlights why I think it was so bad (again, besides the huge moral event horizon thing).
7625899 I think your being too harsh here. Yes twilight seem to be causing the trouble she new to this teaching thing celestia had possiblty of practice for it. Yes there going to be a few stumble but she is learning like starlight is learning.
7625881 considering spike didn't know what the hell chillaxing was either, i think starliight asked a fair question. furthermore considering twilight mind control magic four times, want it need it, parasprite, vampire fruit bat and even attempted discord, (yes the last was arguably a sane thing to do considering what discord was like when he was bad, even though him getting piss when he break free far outweigh the good in that scenario) but twilight kept using it as a first resort even though the mind magic keep backfiring horribly, she should at LEAST use it as a last resort, like teacher like student though. heck don't think she apologize to the town after the want it need it spell.
also the golden ticket thing? first of all twilight was experiencing never asked ANY of you to do that shit for her nor be mobbed by the entire town. she didn't even know she could ask for more tickets for pete sake. the only one that suffer from it was twilight not you, you hypocrite.
More gold. You never disappoint.
I liked it, but it got a bit boring towards the end.
Still a quality piece of fanfiction. Thumbs up.
7625977 Er, no, she was not "new to this teaching thing." Each of the Mane Six has been an exemplar or teacher since Season 4. That was the point made by each key episode. Twilight in particular had episodes like Testing Testing 1, 2, 3 and Twilight Time which established her as being well-versed in multiple teaching methods (though with obvious preferences) and not half bad at getting ponies to learn things. And that's not even going into Equestria Girls. No, the problem really is that Starlight, like Trixie before her, brings out the worst in Twilight.
“I think you’ll like living in the Equestrian Entymological Estate.”
Feed'em to the frogs!
“Bam! She uses magic to get it all done.
Using your natural talents and abilities to make mundane tasks simpler isn't a crime.
and some some crack under it.”
and some ponies crack under it.”
You made everypony want a doll, but we were still us.
Yes, Twilight made the whole town want to beat each other to a pulp over a doll.
“That being to throw magic at it until it stops being a problem,” Applejack clarified.
That sounds like season 1 Twilight Sparkle. Starlight Glimmer is more 'it's for their own good' mentality. And a real flaw was that the mane six never EXPLAINED what was wrong with Starlight's idea of equality... but that's the problem, THERE IS nothing wrong with equality! But she's gotten it into her head because of what happened that equality is bad. In other words, she has every reason to become a Ryanist.
And Starlight's spell I think was supposed to get them to LISTEN to her and get things to go over smoothly, but she overpowered the spell.
And to be frank, while I doubt Starlight's about to force her beliefs on others again, they need to remember that Discord STILL looks for any excuse to use HIS magic and they aren't calling him out on it.
"You mean where the Wonderbolts turned out to be bullying jerks who cared little about their own teammates or their mental well-being, to the point of undermining their self-confidence over a demeaning nickname that made them question their own self-worth?"
And you just lost me.
Rainbow Dash has no one to blame but herself for not bringing up that nickname carried emotional baggage for her. In particular that ALL the Wonderbolts have humiliating nicknames to keep themselves from getting swelled heads and is an actual air-force tradition in real life!
It's the same as immature types who still blame the mane six as 'trying to make Rainbow Dash's life miserable' when they were saving their butt as Mare Do Well whenever her grand standing let the situation deteriorate!
What would Rainbow Dash have done if Mare Do Well wasn't there at the dam?
Twilight frowned. "I was trying to give you advice, so you could make the right decision for yourself."
Rainbow Dash was the one who made the selfish choice of letting down BOTH teams so she wouldn't have to chose between them. She came to that conclusion on her own.
"That’s what I thought," Rainbow looked around. "And then when I pretended to be injured so I wouldn't have to choose, all Twilight said was 'choosing not to choose isn't really a decision.'"
AND IT WAS THE MOST POWERFUL ARMOR PIERCING LINE TWILIGHT COULD HAVE SAID! And Rainbow Dash isn't KNOWN for being able to digest complex and long winded dialogue, so Twilight saying it that was was the best choice!
"Rude, insensitive bullies?" Pinkie deadpanned.
Only the ones who exist in your mind Pinkie PIe. Only the ones who exist in your mind. And it doesn't feel like PINKIE PIE hates them, it feels like the AUTHOR hates them, and it's a BAD THING when you begin to hear the author instead of the characters!
“You read the Hearth’s Warming Tail story and cast Starlight in the role of the villain who wanted to get rid of the holiday and doom the world,” Pinkie Pie said. “That’s a little leading.”
I'm VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY SURE that we were seeing thing as STARLIGHT imagined them! Starlight PUT HERSELF in the role!
No, what you said the whole point of your little masquerade was ‘Real heroes don’t brag.’ That was your justification, nothing else.”
It sure sounds nicer to tell her than, "YOUR STUPID EGO WAS GOING TO GET SOMEPONY KILLED YOU JERK!!!"
And seriously, this entire story migrated from being an accusation fic about Starlight's latest screw up, to Rainbow Dash reading a list of accusations. While she got her ass clean away when she destroyed the whether factory, which damaged more than just Ponyville. And instead of TALKING to the Wonderbolts about the bad history about the nickname, she engaged in an inane scheme about trying to get a NEW nickname, and THEN involved Scootaloo in a stunt that ruined a show and could have gotten herself killed!
The blame game is a game with no winner, because once you start, EVERYONE'S screw ups are brought to the table, and it's never a pretty site. That's why it's better to forgive, forget, AND MOVE ON!
or what Discord did when he tried to make you feel jealous.
Discord didn't 'arrange' anything, he just took advantage of an opportunity to go to town with his magic.
Neither Discord nor Trixie truly had any 'evil plans' for what they did, they just had a bonus in one-upping Twilight.
Like we did with pranking Rainbow Dash into thinking that we had all become zombies,
Rainbow Dash was bloody ASKING for that one!!! Pranking FLUTTERSHY?! Knowing what a fraidy cat she is? And her scheme of stealing a mountain of cookies and replacing them with the prank cookies? She'd EARNED that one!!!
But the issue right here is Starlight.
Oh, the story actually remember that? Interesting.
. “As much as I hate to say it, I think the best thing you could do is try to not structure her education in friendship with your usual … thoroughness.”
I think you could chop out about 50% of this fic and it would be much better for it.
Ya know, in real life, I've realized, people DON'T bring up a list of personal grievances their friends have done to them over the years... it comes across as someone who is petty and small. (Which ironically was part of the point in My Melody, where the antagonist DOES keep a journal of every slight done to them by the hero: trivial to major, imagined or real, intentional or accidental.)
hard work, and not relying exclusively on magic.”
And you lose a point. Magic IS hard work. If magic was easy, there wouldn't need to be several levels of education for it.
7625899
I found all the mind control fun!
excuse me, but any pony who has a problem with a unicorn setting the table with magic is being tribalist
I don't think you can condemn Starlight over Twilight because of the greater depth of Starlight's mind control spell, because Twi knew exactly what would happen and Starlight's spell was an experimental mixing of multiple spells
7625977
I don't think anyone in the group besides Rainbow knew what chillaxing was until they sat down to actually do it. Maybe Applejack, but she would have called it something else.
7626331
Exactly.
7627193
You are correct. It was childish, curt and wrong.
7627290
One is entitled to one's opinion. I'm not obligated to agree, however; nor are you.
Taking a step back though, I suppose that I've been very frustrated by this season and how it's portrayed many of the Mane characters--not just Rainbow Dash--but even characters I have no great affection for. A lot of the subject matter, lessons, or depictions are of a more heavy nature, compared to previous seasons. It's not as light-hearted and touches on deep issues of what constitutes moral behavior in one's eyes.
I can be forgiving of things I consider misdeeds or injustices when they're visited upon me. I cannot be as forgiving when it happens to others, even fictional characters, to say "yes, they deserved this or that." It sends a wider message of what constitutes appropriate behavior on a fundamental level, and I cannot agree with much of what was done this season. I do not enjoy seeing people torn down for the sake of a lame joke or a force-fed moral. That's not what attracted me to the show and I don't believe it does anything to better the characters, the people who enjoy the show, or the world as a whole.
That's pretty much all I have to say.
7627324 That doesn't excuse your earlier brattishness, you could easily have just said that or at the least, 'let us agree to disagree.' if you wanted avoid further argument.
I feel the need to point this out. I think how Twilight's actions during the Heath's Warming Eve tale were exactly the way to go about including someone that wasn't sure.
She asked why Starlight didn't want to participate, offered her a different story, which I doubt she actually casted Starlight as the villain, and when the tale was done said her goodnights and left the invitation to join in open. During the scenes when Starlight was on the couch, she wasn't nodding odd, frightened, or looked bored. She paid attention to the story and even asked "What happens next?" That wasn't forcing anyone into celebrating a holiday, it was a way of giving them a different taste, then seeing if they liked it.
28 pranks later. I wish I knew of a different way of handling that situation. Rainbow pranked someone who didn't see any humor or amusement in it, Fluttershy, and when she was asked to stop, she dismissed it, and kept doing it. And kept doing it, until the entire town was fed up. The way Rainbow acted wasn't the way of a prankster, it was that of of a bully.
7627668
Plus it was Fluttershy, who had been off limits during Gilda's first visit...
7626323 You might have, but did the people who got mind controlled?
7627968 and Fluttershy is years tougher now compared to then.
7628958
True... before, she might not have even stood up for herself the way she did. Dragonshy took place after Griffon the Brush off episodically, and there were issues with the amount of respect Dash had for Fluttershy in that episode.
This was good at the start, but then it started to veer off course when you started using the ponies as your mouth pieces to bash Rainbow Dash episodes you don't like. This was supposed to be about Starlight, and honestly you admit that Twilight being skeptical of Trixie was justified (to an extent it was, she just once again jumped to conclusions without any solid evidence to back up her suspicions). And you're saying it was wrong of her to give Starlight friendship homework, when it was Starlight who foolishly chose to combine all five lessons at the same time on her own?
It feels less like you wanted to actually address the issues of Starlight Glimmer, and more that you wanted to just bash a couple of episodes you didn't like. It's fine to not like an episode, but people don't like mouth piece fanfics.
To Trinary,
Do you think that when you rewrite the Equestria Girls movies, you can change something for the Friendship Games? We know that Dash has both parents in this universe, but since a lot of Dash fics have her as an orphan, can we do that? A scenario is that Dash's parents were family friends with Twilight's family and were, along with Twilight's parents, high ranking students at Crystal Prep. Then one day, Dash and her parents are driving home from having a dinner at the Sparkle residence when their car is hit by a drunk driver. Rainbow makes it through, but sadly her parents pass away on the way to the hospital.
Since Twilight's parents were made Rainbow's godparents, she was adopted into the Sparkle family. Over time, the crush that she had on Shining Armor fades into a brother/sister relationship and she treats Twilight like a sister while helping Twilight in getting Cadance and Shining Armor to hook up. This Rainbow Dash is still an athlete, but she's more book smart than Equestrian Rainbow. She also attends Crystal Prep, but the legacy that her parents left at that school hangs over her, leading to feelings of wondering if she's worth being a part of Twilight's family due to not being as book smart as Twilight.
When the Friendship Games between Crystal Prep and Cantorlot High come around, have Ms. Finch summon Rainbow to her office, but without Shining Armor and Cadance there to give her sympathy. Ms. Finch could go on about the legacy that Rainbow's parents left for the school, and give her an ultimatum-win the Friendship Games, or Twilight will be withheld from going on the Intern Project.
The final climax of the film will be as Twilight is almost absorbed by the magic, Rainbow pulls her out and takes her place. To have an idea of what Rainbow's design can be, look up pictures of Nightmare Rainbow Dash and base it off that. Corrupted by the magic power, Rainbow's inner demons come out to the forfront and its Twilight that allows Sunset to get the upper hand when Rainbow is momentarily taken out of her power trip. Sunset may relate to Rainbow in thinking that she feels like she isn't worthy Equestrian Rainbow's friend after everything that she's done. With the acknowledgement that she shouldn't feel like she's of low worth just because she isn't like Twilight, Rainbow Dash is saved and the battle ends.
There's my take on how you can do the Friendship Games, and please tell me if its any good for at least a plot for the movie.
I honestly loved this. You are by far my favorite writer of all. You have voiced my opinions so well on the episodes that involved Rainbow Dash. I can't even..............keep up the good work my friend. I'm looking forward to more stories from you that involve Rainbow Dash and her internal conflicts.
Yeah, I can tell where this is going...
Let me start with its a pretty good story. That raises some good points. Like how Twilight was channeling her inner Sun-Butt with the surprise dinner and such. And her need to micro manage everything in life.
Can't say I liked the cheap shots at Trixie, who re-acted to their actions first time they met.
She also tried to stop the Ursa, unlike the rest. (aside from Twilight). And all she got for her trouble was losing everything, and being eternally damned for acting no better (or worse) than the mane6 have acted. If she's to blame for the amulet than Rarity should be thrown out of town for her diddling with dark magic, along with Spike, who enabled her.
And Twilight should be held to the same standard for the want-it need-it. Actually, since she mind fucked small children first, she should be sitting in jail. But all she got was a talking to, and her work load reduced and spread out among her friends. Who were fine with it, so they can shut the hell up about Starlight Glimmer.
And Nightmare Moon did worse than anything Trixie ever thought of.
Or because of who they are, an Alicorn & Chaos God. Both have the raw power to do pretty much whatever they want. So I guess they were smart enough not to push the issue.
As did Discord.
Both of them were forgiven. Why? Because Sun-Butt said so?
The biggest problem I had was....
Says the pony who uses magic for everything. At least when she isn't having Spike do it.
Screw you Twilight. And screw the rest of you for wanting Starlight to deny her birthright (magic) and behave in a manner THEY like. For that matter, who the hell do they think they are? If she wants to learn more, that's no one elses business.
ACTUAL friends helps each other become a better a person, not make them change to suit their whims.
So, all of Ponyville kicking the crap of each other over a doll was just my imagination?
That Twilight just decided to return the tickets after her friends spent the whole day discussing, then fighting, then it got spread to the whole town was just my imagination too?
Now seriously, seems to me that you're starting to enter a mentality that "Rainbow-Dash-is-Always-right". Please, don't fall for this trap: your Dashverse stories are among my top favorites, and I'd hate to see then becoming a character shilling fest.
7625810
Well, at least Rainbow Dash was—right before Twilight immediately covered her eyes and forced her to look away.
vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/mlp/images/5/5e/Twilight_Sparkle_closing_Rainbow%27s_eyes_S2E03.png/revision/latest?cb=20120514151604
She even started to have the hearts in her eyes.
vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/mlp/images/4/48/Rainbow_Dash_eyes_S02E03.png/revision/latest?cb=20120223101719
Also, they're not excusing Twilight. They're pointing out how Twilight handled her situation much better than Starlight.
Also, Fluttershy even points out how the pressure was something Twilight brought on herself.
AJ and RD are not "throwing massive fits" either. They aren't saying this stuff to Starlight's face, and it would seem that they would reasonably be disturbed by what Starlight did to both Big Mac and them. Simply telling her to stop it hasn't done anything so far.
7628958 But Rainbow Dash is never like, "Oh, shoot, I thought you could take it now." Instead, she outright says, "You're too easy. You're scared of everything." Applejack even says that scaring Fluttershy is lazy.
7626318
Uh, no. Rainbow Dash should NOT have to put up with that shit in the first place. Saying that she did because she kinda made herself a target is awfully sadistic.
Actually, it IS a choice to not choose between teams. Pretending to be injured was not the right way to go about it, but the inherent idea of simply not choosing isn't wrong to begin with.
I'm groaning reading this. Did you want to hear the author or something? It's pretty clear from the outset that it was going to be a fixfic.
As the STORY ITSELF points out, TWILIGHT DOES VOICES.
7766258
It's not a fixfic, it's an accusation fic.
7766258
In regards to the nickname thing...that's apparently a real Air Force thing, and if Dash had just spoken up about her bad history with the name, she could have received a different name that was still humbling but not humiliating.
7789676 Conversely, Dash isn't the kind of pony who would admit that someone is hurting her feelings so it's understandable why she wouldn't speak up. Her ridiculous impersonations were never a good idea to begin with, but it's very much a 'Dash' thing to do.
7789916
I see what you mean. Still, I think Trinary's being a bit unfair ragging on the Wonderbolts like that. True, Dash isn't the kind to speak up, but because of that, the Wonderbolts had no idea just how deep their nickname cut Dash...
7631543 Those "mouthpiece fanfics" have a name, it's accusations fics.
I actually want to see a fic of What About Discord? where he tells her that he manipulated events behind her back and that she is no different. After all, she did same thing in TMMDW and Rainbow Falls.
Liked the story, but again, it rankles me here as it did show wise one thing: repercussions.
Part of Starlight's problem has been there haven't really been any consequence for her actions. Like, at all. While you may be able to squeak by with the whole time buggery those lines no longer existing and thus no harm done (although I think the laws should be enforced regardless... existing or not, she still caused harm to a sapient life for no reason other then her own gain) her actions afterwards warrant at the very least community service, probation, a smack in the bucking head, anything!
She is, for lack of anything better, something of a high functioning sociopath. Thankfully she's not completely void of empathy, but she is decidedly "tone deaf" to how her actions affect others
A good fic... until it veered off into bad Dash episodes. Yeah, Dash has been screwed over multiple times with bad characterization. But I think we should focus on the sociopathic unicorn. ;)
8420736
it's called
celestia:there are no crimes in my land so therefore no reprcussions nyeh
7670449
Ultimately, there was the same motivation both times. Rainbow Dash doesn't want to choose certain people over other people for fear of disappointment. Twilight is the same.
Also, choosing not to choose was still a choice either way, so Twilight created a false dichotomy.
Actually, what Twilight did was worse. Those ponies would have killed each other if Celestia hadn't stepped in.
So the author us going to ignore the numerous times Twilight has resorted to magic right away, far more times then Starlight.
This story was so good back during season 6 because it perfectly accounted for a huge problem caused by the terrible writing style of season 5 and 6. But after that, it just seemed kinda pointless? The show wasn't (and won't in the short time left) gonna get better, so reading this now seems more sad than triumphant.