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Out of curiosity, what's recruitment for TCS like? It it an open 'secret', or by invitation only? (Twilight is a bit of both, seeing as how she's 'sneaking in' while also given a visitors badge.)
I know most bdsm communities in real life are generally very welcome and opening, but I'm guessing it's not quite the same here.
Just saw this pop up in the impregnation group. Bigger than I thought it was. Marking to read later.
7431027 Finding a recruiter is the easy bit. If you're aware of Clocktower and know who to ask, you can join. Some ponies get invited by existing members too. Members would know who their local recruitment agent and transit hub is and can point ponies in the right direction. It's also by invitation. Anypony who purchases the BDSM storybooks by a certain 'Love Song', mentioned in the prologue, will be scouted for membership.. Joining is the difficult bit, which we'll get to see through Twilight's eyes soon. The application process is quite involved, with ponies having to submit criminal records checks, a healthy bank statement proving they are productive members of society and can continue to remain so, as well as attend a full health check at a Clocktower-approved health clinic. Surprisingly, barely any ponies are put off by the difficult application process, as knowing how rigorous Clocktower is about their applications is actually a major attraction point for sensible ponies. It's like loving mushrooms and being told the supermarket will make sure all the ones they have available are non-poisonous. Afterwards there's an induction process where ponies get the safe words, rules, health and safety and BDSM first aid lessons drilled into them. Once they've completed all that then they are allowed inside the upper palace and dungeon levels.
7430165 Hmmm, that's a pity, though I guess in a way it's freedom of opinion. The system just allows people to be more vocal about it in a significantly impactful way. Even a single downvote can hurt.
7429288 I suppose considering Fall of Equestria's popularity that's high praise and I guess I should thank you. However, I wrote this with every intention of distinguishing myself from stories like Fall of Equestria. At Clocktower Society, consent and willingness is everything.
Because consent's my fetish.
7429141 Thank you for your kind comment. I love Moonstone! That was the first consensual BDSM story I found on this site, complete with some SSC practices. Though its clop parts always felt like the writer lost interest in them halfway so that always left me hanging a bit. Loyal's an amazing writer though.
7428732 With regards to why it seems like a high proportion of Ponyville's population are members, that's because it is the town closest to Clocktower Equestria East. Even with the transit hubs in place, many ponies still chose to move over to be closer to their favourite hang-out spot. In this story, this is the reason Rainbow Dash, Pinkie Pie and Fluttershy and other ponies like Lyra Heartstrings moved over to Ponyville and why Rarity never left for the big city
I think even Applejack hides things from time to time. In fact there's a whole episode where she tries to escape to hide the fact that she won 2nd place at the rodeo. She's against the harmful and deceitful kind of dishonesty. Clocktower, meanwhile, is relatively benign.
While the nation was founded on it, it might not be viewed as 'neutral' by the general populace. It had always been a relatively private organization that valued the personal privacy and anonymity of its members. Because of how closely Luna was tied to Clocktower to the point of having its facilities guarded by Lunar guards, Clocktower and its practices quickly faced persecution in the days following NMM's banishment. With the government destabilized by Luna's banishment and Celestia's powerbase precariously unbalanced, she had trouble controlling the mass persecution of anyone deemed related to NMM, especially when a lot of it was used as a guise to seize power amidst the power vacuum left behind by Luna's departure. Clocktower had no choice but to go into hiding.
7428327 Those are some excellent thoughts. Thanks! *takes notes
7428186 I guess they are morally ambiguous in that they aren't some big charitable organization going around saving the world, but the same can be said of a big corporation or your local supermarket. Clocktower's just there to enable a safer experience in what is otherwise a relatively risky pastime. And if you take the zealots' word for it, Clocktower is also there to prevent the world from freezing over.
7428001 Those are some excellent points. Yes, prenegotiation is a big thing, and Lyra did mention some still prefer to use the tea room to discuss arrangements, plans and hard limits before jumping in. I guess a lot of the spontaneity that the collar system enables can in itself lead to a lot of the problems that prenegotiation normally prevents.
I envisioned that the common custom would be for the payee to always take payment from the payer's sub using their phaser then applying it to the payee's own sub. I expect Doms generally have pre-existing agreements with their own subs on things like their phaser settings.
Anyway, I edited the entry on the phaser, making it clear that the dom generally allows the sub to choose their own setting and making it customary for the payee to take payment rather than the payer giving payment.
7427898 Sorry I didn't make that clear. The marks are made of magical charge. The phasers suck up that charge then re-apply it elsewhere. There is no other way to recharge the phaser's supply of magical charge so the amount of magical charge circulating as currency is finite.
7427633 Thank you. Your entertainment is my satisfaction.
7427629 That would be a much, much better way to go about it! I'm gobsmacked that it didn't occur to me. I might rewrite that part to incorporate your suggestion. Thank you!
7427448 Thank you. By the way, enjoy your milk.
7427353 Thank you, you're always far too kind with your comments. I really wanted an internal currency but was stuck on what the denominations would be. Since Equestria used 'bits' I was tempted to go with 'gags', but then I realized that was kinda bland.
I'd absolutely totally love to see what others make out of my world-building. That'd be the most awesome thing ever. If you ever decide to go through with that please let me know, I absolutely must read it.
7427323 Well, what Upper Crust said was that Clocktower Equestria is all about fulfilling power exchange fantasies and money can be a form of power, therefore fantasy money can fulfill money-related power fantasies. She didn't outright claim that money is power or that Clocktower endorses that in any way in the outside world.
But the air of moral ambiguity and mystery's certainly something I like to maintain for the time being.
7427293 Thank you! I love writing it!
7431207
That's very interesting, I'm curious about the financial aspect- a large number of 'employees' seem to be basically wards of the clocktower society. The maids, the bankers, the test subjects, the free use ponies. If they're there for life, how do they hold down a steady nine-to-five? :p
Edit: But generally, as your average (Pony) Joe, simply being a reasonable individual and expressing an interest in BDSM would eventually let me find my way there one way or another? That's pretty good to hear!
7431217 There are a number of full-time and part-time paid positions at Clocktower, and by 'paid' I mean they are paid real Equestrian bits. They're 9-5 jobs based in Clocktower and are largely domestic or administrative tasks. Somebody has to keep the paperwork moving, the halls clean and the boilers running, after all. Thankfully, interest is so high that they've been able to maintain a full staff using only society members. However the only organized group of subs that hold paid positions are the Keeper maids who maintain a strict no-play-during-work-hours policy, enforced by their 'I'm at work, don't disturb' indicator on their collar and their time-locked chastity belts. It sounds harsh, but the job satisfaction is incredibly high, so much so that many Keeper maids choose to also live on site in the maid quarters to live out the full maid lifestyle.
The bankers, test subjects and free-use ponies are all unpaid members who come and go as they wish. None of them are beholden to stay.
A majority of ponies come and visit perhaps at most twice a week or so, mostly to stay a night and a day or two on weekends. If they choose to visit on a weekday, they can come in the early evening and go home at midnight or so, or they can stay the night then return to work the next morning using the convenient transit hubs.
The Society actually monitors ponies for addictive behaviour. Ponies who show any suspicion of lagging behind in their real life responsibilities because of their activities at Clocktower, whether reported by friends or family, etc, will be asked to take time out. Repeat offenders are given strikes. Excess strikes lead to a permanent ban from the society. That was a small part of why Twilight Velvet came to check up on Love Tap because she was displaying unusual user behaviour.
7431263 Very interesting! I had gotten the impression that many er, 'castes' I suppose were more or less lifers. Good to know that the society always has your best interest at heart! (Or crotch). As for addiction, I can imagine that having your every sexual fantasy more or less fulfill-able would be addictive, yes.
You certainly seem to have put quite a great deal of though and worldbuilding into this! How long have you been putting this together? I can't imagine you started on all the images and concepts since Monday.
Y'know, when I said "MILFs when?", I was not expecting you to take it seriously.
7431280 Well, this story began production very shortly after I finished writing the clop for 'Do You Even Sleep' for Pen Mightier about a month ago. I felt an itch to write more clop and kinda began working on this then. I had a working prototype for it though with a few scenes written which was actually set in the early days of the society shortly after Unification. The story featured Luna as the main character with the six founders are supporting cast. I didn't actually have a name for the society, neither was most of the world building in place. All I had was the Hearthswarming backstory as it is now as well as the backstory for Luna's involvement in the society. I ended up burying the prototype because it was actually pretty meh and had very limited scope.
The world-building came gradually. My initial setting was actually less ambitious, with Clocktower being a single tower outside Ponyville. I decided to go big and make it worlwide, capitalizing on economy of scale. The rest of the world building actually came about while I was trying to draw up the cover image for the story. It went through something like twenty revisions with the current version looking nothing like the originals. As I drew them I created a few versions that eventually became the blueprint template for CTRL, another that gave birth to the clocktower maids and one that ended up the poster for Clocktower Equestria West. Everything else kinda flowed from there.
7431292 I aim to please.
7431148 The impregnation fetish is in the two part chapter prefixed 'Clocktower Scenes', currently the last two there on the list.
7431348 That's just what got my attention, will be reading it's entirety at another time. It looks interesting.
7431263 Sounds like a good start. :) Your worldbuilding, to misuse the meme, intensifies. Looking forward to seeing the continued development.
I got feels
I also got a feels boner
howd you make that sad, sweet and smoikng hot at the same time? Ive never seen a story so batshit kinky while being so heartwarming
also your Twilight Velvet is best pon
7431324
Ayy.
This chapter was, if I may say so bluntly, hot as fuck. And it was sweet at the end. Kinda like yogurt-covered pretzels.
Don't judge me.
THE PUNS THOUGH. THEY BUUUURRN.
I do have a question though;
Who runs Clocktower? I'm under the impression that an operation with this level of funding, territory, and influence, would have quite a few powerful figures other than just Miss Velvet and Upper Crust. Is it similar to a royal house in function, i.e., does a 'Clocktower' family exist and govern over the Society, or is it a religious site for the local zealots, like a massive cathedral?
7431324 Manifest.... you didn't disappoint bud, This pleases me.... given the gaming theme to this chapter I think there really is only one thing to say... GG
sneaks in, hood covering face So, what is this? picks up manual Okay... ... ... WHAT?! Why did nopony tell me about this place? I will have so much fun in here once I figure out where to sign up. ... ... Damn, somepony's coming. Better hide slides off into the shadows
OC offer:
Name: Shadow Walker
Pegasus
Coat: Dark blue
Mane: Black
Stallion
Cutie Mark: outline of a pony, nearly invisible because black
Talent: superior hiding skills, especially in shadowy places (duh)
7431494
Well, the government ~seemingly~ funds and supplies it, but as to who actually sits around and runs the place, I would expect either Luna (now that she's back), or Cadence (because princess of love). Maybe Cadence ran it til Luna got back, and they co-run the place now?
I'm sure Armor has the Crystal Empire running fairly smoothly for the most part, and Celestia has had 1,000 years to learn to run Equestria just fine without Luna, so it would make sense that they would have the time to spend half the time working to keep the Empire/Equestria running, and the other half keeping everything working in the Clocktower Society.
Move closer how? As far as I can tell from the set up, pretty much every city is within equal distance from the Clocktower, due to the gates. It doesn't matter if you live in Manehatten or in Saddle Arabia, you're going to be within a 15 minute walk of the Clocktower. Why would they move to Ponyville then?
Moreover, the mane 6 have always been depicted as, in one way or another, young adults. These are ponies who are just starting off their adult lives, and in one way or another, are moving to establish themselves in the world. Yet you're expecting me to believe that Fluttershy, someone who's defining characteristic is her timidness and shyness, moved from Cloudsdale to Ponyville so she could engage in semi-anonymous semi-public kinky sex? Seriously?
The reason I bring up the age of the mane 6 is to point out that it seems unlikely, perhaps unreasonably so, that most or all of them would have been engaged in Clocktower activities at the same time that they became old enough to move out on their own. It strikes me that Fluttershy probably moved to Ponyville because it was near to where she came down, and since she isn't particularly keen on flying, she probably convinced her parents to allow her to stay, or go back. Rainbow Dash probably moved to Ponyville out of a sense of loyalty to Fluttershy.
And I can't help sidestepping or ignoring the core of my point. Every named character--indeed, literally every character named or even hinted from the show, in this story, has been into kink, and not exactly mild stuff at that. Twilight's parents, All of Twilight's friends (and apparently the total sum of a whole town no less), apparently every princess (except perhaps Celestia and I strongly suspect that the cutie mark she choose for her collar is going to turn out to be Celestia's) and so forth. Where are the non-kinky ponies? Apparently only one exists in all of Equestria, her name is Twilight Sparkle and she's about to dive headlong into kink.
It goes deeper than that, too, because you've rewritten the very essence of Equestria's founding so its about kink as well.
The problem is, I think, that you're trying to have your cake and eat it too. You want everyone to be super kinky because you want to write a super kinky story featuring those characters, yet, at the same time, you want it to be somehow secret so Twilight has something to discover. But if it is a secret that Twilight can uncover, it cannot be the case that everyone is kinky. Because if everyone's kinky, it's a perfectly normal part of society. The result is that most of the ponies are OoC* and the society is weirdly OoC as well.
It's worth noting that within our own society, things like Folsom Street Fair exist, and have done so for some 32 years, which is a *very* public airing of BDSM subculture.
In a post above this, you mentioned that originally the Clocktower was far smaller in conception, and it eventually evolved into what's presented in the story, and I think that's sad. A smaller, less all encompassing Clocktower society would make far more sense, as would fewer 'Known' ponies being into it.
I think the central premise of the story is interesting, and I find the goal underlying it interesting and worth being curious about, but I think it's getting lost here because there's something cliche and weird about the worldbuilding, something that's inherently off putting.
I haven't brought this up before, because I've been waiting to see where you took it, and for more details, but it strikes me as super creepy that both(?) of Twilight's relationships were apparently assigned to her by Cadance, apparently with the goal of guiding Twilight towards being part of the society, all without even asking her. For a fic that's supposed to be about consent, this isn't a very rosy beginning.
*I hesitate to call it such, because it's more that the ponies, collectively, are out of character, rather than individual pony's behaviors being implausible. Even a pony like Fluttershy, I think, could be written convincingly in a way that had her being involved in this sort of relationship, but it is implausible that everyone is.
7431366 Simple. Because trying for a child is an indescribable experience. The love making becomes far, far more than something physical, it is truly something sublime, wonderful and beyond words. I tried my best to capture that here, but I don't think I'd ever be good enough to do something that beautiful justice.
7431494 Why, thank you. I'm glad it was to your liking.
As for who runs the society, I'm just going to point you to Khopesh's answer down below.
7432349 Well done, that man. That's spot on.
Luna used to be the main royal patron until she was banished. Cadence has indeed taken over as main royal patron and Luna's been co-opping the role since her return.
Their role is mostly supportive, reputational, and advisory. Clocktower Society is run by a board of admin members with executive powers made up of an even mix of doms and subs. They are advised on policy by two internal legislative and judicial committees, each representing the doms and the subs. Severe infractions to the rules (such as ignoring safe words) are acted upon by the guards while policing is actually done relatively informally. Every dom and sub who join the society are given 6 named existing society members as mentors, 3 doms and 3 subs, often a mix of friends, acquaintances and strangers. The mentors are tasked with guiding them, acting on their worries or concerns especially if it's about somepony else's behaviour, monitoring them for risky or addictive behaviour, acting on reports of bad behaviour from other ponies' mentors, reproaching and warning them, and if all else fails report them to the sub and dom committees for judicial review to be considered for a strike. The reason for such a neighbourhood-watch approach is because the society realizes that because of the nature of the society, it can be difficult to report rule breaking because they can often be embarassing or uncomfortable to discuss. Having a combination of ponies they know well and are comfortable speaking with as well as strangers who can act as detached, impartial parties means they have clear options to access when something goes wrong.
It is not unusual for mentors to change around as necessary as it is important that a sub and a dom in a relationship do not share the same mentor.
Incidentally, Twilight Velvet is one of Love Tap's mentors.
7432354 Woo, it feels like I'm being interrogated. How exciting.
So regarding how it feels like everyone's in on Clocktower and your question on where the non-kinky ponies are:
-At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I'm going to reiterate that only 5% of Equestria's population are Clocktower members, from probably 10% who are kinksters if you extrapolate real world US data. Out of Equestria's 320 million ponies, 16 million are members, split across two sites. About half a million to a million visit each site daily, giving each site the population of a whole town.
- Because of the nature of the society, that population is going to be biased towards younger ponies so if you break down the demographic by age group, perhaps a larger percentage of those aged 20-30 are members, probably approaching 15-20%. So if you're looking at random samples of the population aged 20 - 30 alone, the probability of them being a Clocktower member increases.
- I haven't used every single named pony available. I've used only a fraction of the ponies in the list of ponies on the MLP wikia.
- You say that if we go by populational probability, the chances of all five of Twilight's friends being a member of Clocktower is small. Here we are strictly speaking about the chances of them being members, rather than the chances of them joining the society and becoming members. I would agree if they are truly random samples from the population with zero confounding factors affecting their probability. Fact is, they have plenty of confounding factors. In epidemiology terms, these are called 'risk factors'. They have lots of the risk factors for being members of the society. To start off with, they are young, putting them at a higher risk of being members. They all know know each other, making it even more likely they are involved in a similar social activity. And they are residents at Ponyville, which as we've established has higher concentration of society members, making them even more likely to be members. It's a bit like having a grab bag of candy with wrapped and unwrapped candies. If only 5% are unwrapped candies then the probability of drawing 5 unwrapped candies in a row is small, yes. However, if it's, say, there's a confounding factor like a hot day for example and the unwrapped candies are more likely to melt and clump together, the chances of drawing 3-5 unwrapped candies all at once is all the more likely.
- It seems like everyone in the story are in on it and super-kinky because Twilight started the story on the road leading up to Clocktower and proceeds to go inside. Non-kinky ponies would have no business being on that road or inside Clocktower. If I were to write a story set on the road leading up to a firestation and inside the firestation, most if not all of the characters are going to be firemen. If we go back to any other pony settlement at that exact point in time, you'd find plenty of examples of non-kinky non-members. With the exception of Ponyville which, as I mentioned is the town closest to Clocktower and is probably its hub for non-kinky social activity. Even with the convenient transit hubs in place, lots of ponies choose to move and settle there to be closer out of fondness.
As for the thing with Princess Cadence, we shall be delving into that soon.
7432302 I'd repay you in kind with my OC, except my OC is a turtle called Tama. He's hardly a pony. He's cute though.
7432168
7431990 Pretty much. Though to be fair, it's a difficult topic to broach with family. 'Kid, your mom and I are into some real weird kinky shit. You were probably conceived as a result of said kinky shit'. Realistically, it'd be more likely for lovers to make the invitation, and to a lesser extent, friends. Which begs the question of why Rarity and Doctor Horse haven't broached the subject in their three months of dating Twilight. And we'll go into that.
7432052 Exactly what this very receptive chap said.
7431533 I'm glad you liked it. To be honest it was you and 7431494 who inspired to me go through with that little idea.
Now I think I need to get 7421537 something with diamond dogs, probably involving the predator/prey fetishist club.
7431364 Thank you! You know, because you've been commenting on every single one of my chapters so far and been offering excellent feedback and criticism, I've been wondering when you'd be offering your thoughts on the latest two chapters, or if you'd be doing that at all, 'cause I kinda want to know if there was anything I was missing or I could do better.
In fact the question, 'What would Troublesome Beast think of X, Y or Z', has now become a part of my writing process
Or are you just waiting for the next story chapter? Because I'm totally cool with that.
7432563 oh I didnt think of it that way but now that you mention it I can see how that made it warm and special
makes me want to find somebody to share somthing that special with someday, it sounds nice
7432354 dude can you chill. youve asked the poor author the exact same question like four times now. the guys given you perfectly reasonable and logical ansewrs every time, explaining how only a small percentage of equestrians are members of TCS and it could feel like everybody is a member because Twiligt is inside a place that would only contain members. As for why a lot of her Twilights friends are members, youre talking about them like theyre numbers. they arent, theire people. its kind of like being in uni together and deciding to go to the same pub outside campus. are you going to walk up to them and ask 'what are the chances that five friends enjoy the same thing and go to the same pub? the chances of that are too low so this weird and ooc, stop it'
7432723 'but Twilight youve been here before plenty of times...as a fetus'
7432563 don't need to repay me. Nearly all I do is creating OC's and backstories. If you ever need one, message me.
7431207
I'm a big fan of FoE so I understand where you're coming from. Different strokes for different folks, as they say. I can appreciate how much focus is put on consent by everypony; for someone of my proclivities, that actually is a bit of a turn-off. Kinks are like that.
However, the scenes are still written in a very interesting manner. And I like seeing these characters interact.
7432563 Well, that's immensely flattering! Actually, I don't know if you missed it (and I can now consider it fairly well answered) but at the bottom of my ramble/rant about sub-side agency and the phasers, I asked if I was starting to get disruptive. That's mainly what I was waiting for in terms of a specific response to the chapters, though they're pretty well done in and of themselves. I'll take a closer look once I'm a little more awake, since I believe I can take your statement as a go-ahead.
i66.tinypic.com/1535l41.jpg
Next Chapter
Thumbs, and certain neurochemical elements waaaay up. Loved this one, nigh perfect. Minor quibbles, really, that mostly have to do with the ideal vs. the active, to the point that I think leaving it as it is makes it feel more like a real interaction between a non-perfect couple. I don't think I've ever seen a moment that worked quite so well for both respecting delicious, sexy consent and pregnancy/impregnation control play. Quite possibly my most favorite scene to date, and I may end up stealing the concept, discussed impregnation outside of the scene followed by "mua ha ha I will get you preggers/I will become preggers off of your seed!" in-scene. ;)
Honestly, I have nothing really I can say here except that you might want to do a re-scan for tense changes; most of this is in past tense (yay!) but you've got:
Which should have really been hadn't. I suspect the only reason I noticed in between the hotness was because I had problems writing Heavy Metal Princess scenes last night whilst running freeform RP for my wife and was getting tense-switching issues as a result. :)
Anyway. MOAR APPLAUSE. Great scene, great chapter.
7432354
It's always the quiet ones.
Trust me, this isn't as unusual as you'd think.
No, the story specifically said the cutie mark was a Dr. Horse's cutie mark in the 5th chapter "Chapter 2 - The Collaring (Clop)" where it says:
Note the underlined part. That's the cutie mark she chose.
vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/mlp/images/3/32/Pinkie_Pie_animation_error_cut_leg_S2E16.png/revision/latest?cb=20131026161337
7432308 I love Pinkie's rationale there.
7432563 Mostly my point is that canon Twilight has pretty big issues with exclusion... though probably not Pinkie Pie-talking-to-the-furniture level. I mean, Twi was reduced to tears by her friends having a fun weekend with Discord without her.
I could see her having a pretty big friendship crisis on the revelation of how (admittedly non-maliciously) left out of something this... significant she's been. It's literally everyone from the top down in her life (her entire family, Celestia, Luna, Cadance, all her friends, her special someponies, and apparently half the town). And knowing Twilight, she'd immediately turn that on herself as the reason why, assuming some kind of personal failure on her part (Canterlot Wedding, anyone?).
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely adore this story (the worldbuilding is fantastic and oh my god the characterizations of Button's parents I'm dying here ), I just think that this is an elephant in the room that will need careful taming. And I'm mostly just spewing my random thoughts about it (no pressure!); I can't imagine you'll handle it anything other than well (or hilariously).
7432563
I shall try to hold back the hot pokers.
I don't really think the population statistics are all that interesting or even relevant--although I will point out that half a million visitors per day is nearly 10 times what disneyland got per day in 2015. (And 9 times what the Magic Kingdom, the most popular amusement park in the world, gets.) It is also 5 times more than what Times Square gets on a day to day basis.
The reason I brought up the ages of the mane 6 is to point out that there doesn't seem to be time for ponies like Fluttershy or Rainbow or Pinkie to A) be introduced to bdsm, B) become interested enough that they'd literally move across Equestria in order to be closer to the action, for some reason.
A pony like Fluttershy, specifically Fluttershy, is someone that has undergone character development, when she started off as somepony who was literally afraid of her own shadow.
I think you're deliberately sidestepping the point.
If I look at Twilight in the context of this story, I struggle to see who she knows who isn't supposedly in this Clocktower society. All her closest friends are. Her mother, and presumably her father is. Her sister-in-law and her (presumably) her brother is. Luna is. Celestia presumably is. Lyra is. Treehugger is. I wouldn't be surprised if most of the Applefamily is.
Let's just focus, for now, on the mane 6. As I've suggested before, the Mane 6 represent an essentially random selection of ponies, who despite currently living all over Equestria appears to be somewhat randomly selected from the population, and have a diverse set of characteristics; Faust designed them so, to encompass a wide selection of personalities and archetypes that you might find with female characters in fiction, ranging from the tomgirls to the nerdy girls to the girly girls.
I'm actually suggesting, I think, that being young is likely a mark against being a member because they're young.
I agree they know one another--but this is only true now. You've already said that at least three of the mane 6 apparently independently stumbled into the Clocktower and liked it so much they moved to Ponyville, or didn't move away. Yet my impression is that, outside of Rainbow and Fluttershy, or Pinkie being "friends" with everypony, that the mane 6 didn't quite know one another until after Twilight arrived.
This is circular: you're saying that they're at risk of being society members because they're in Ponyville, yet the reason half of the mane 6 are supposedly in Ponyville is because they're society members.
I mentioned this indirectly in my last post, but I honestly think a Clocktower on a smaller scale would make the whole thing more believable and less cliche. The Society becomes part of Equestria and the FiM universe, rather than everything bending or being subservient (heh) to it.
The fact that kinky ponies are doing kinky sex in a kinky firehouse doesn't bother me so much as it bothers me that I can open up Leading or Supporting characters, and there's a good chance clicking on a random link would give me a character who's in the Clocktower society.
7433210
I'm actually pretty cognizant of the fact that Fluttershy very much could be into something along these lines. After all, as TheKhopesh points out, it's always the quiet ones.
What I'm finding hard to swallow is that every one of the mane 6 is into it, and into it on this sort of level. I don't think its unreasonable to say that even within the BDSM community, not everyone wants the same sort of thing; I'm sure some people are happy with it being restricted to the bedroom, whereas others go for a more 24/7 dynamic, and still others are into a sort of causal scene situation and are perfectly comfortable with the sort of large scale play party that the Clocktower, in a sense, is.
Truthfully, the rewriting of everyone and everything to serve the Tower's existence is part of the issue I'm having here. What you call 'Excellent reasons IC' for the world being the way it is, I see more of a bastardization of everyone's character and characterization of the world in the show. Suddenly Fluttershy doesn't want to move to the ground because she's a terrible flier, it's because she wants to be close to this tower. Suddenly all of Twilight's friends and family have been going around behind her back and doing something together (whether directly or indirectly) excluding her. Suddenly Equestria isn't founded on friendship, or whatever, it's founded on domination and submission. The whole universe and everything in it revolves around BDSM. It's like Gor.
7434397 There's a suspension of disbelief debt, yes. But I don't think it's as insurmountable as you're saying, nor is actually that large of a change to the characters as you're suggesting. Certainly, especially given its nature as a still-hidden organization, I don't think there's even enough to warrant an AU tag.
I think that this point is the most valid; I can't think that every Clocktower member could make it every night; the problem wouldn't be the accommodations, it'd be opportunity. That said, since for many it's some combination of favorite clubbing spot, major socialization and recreation area of other kinds, and church, I don't think seeing somewhere between 50% to 75% attendance is off, and certainly even close to 100% attendance would make sense in a fantasy world/sex-fiction, even if IMO it's probably a good idea to mix things up. Though herd-nature could explain that, honestly; you will see larger grouped behaviors.
By the by, at 7432563 I do recommend being aware of one of the traps that herd-based or herd-using fics fall into. If the ponies follow herds, they're not going to be a stallion and a harem. Real horse herds (which are all feral, since there really aren't any solely wild-descended herds any more) are run by a boss mare or small alliance of boss mares, with the stallion or stallions basically keep order, negotiating between the bossmares and the lower status mares, keep stragglers in line, and are the usual first line of defense against predators (1-5 stallions out of a herd of up to 25, though that's probably less likely in context for the ponies at the extreme). The tendency of them to be portrayed otherwise is kind of wince worthy, especially given how prominent female leaders are in the show anyway. I only bring this up because Button, and it doesn't seem too unlikely for an M/f pair-bond to be focusing on their male son, but-- I guess it'd just be nice for more people to acknowledge the real socialization. I forgot about that with my comments before.
Mmm, nope, don't see it. Not with the screening. Kinkiness is honestly something that you often pick up on from very young; it doesn't require special trauma to be speculating on it before you even hit puberty and it's all mostly curiosity and social interest that later gets integrated into sex. Meanwhile, Fluttershy's the oldest, and as frightened as she can be, she also from the pilot is willing to act when she feels supported by those around her (going into the woods, manticore, facing NMM), so especially if it was something she fumbled with in her dating life (also something that happens to shy people with kink interest) then I could see it as being reinforcing without changing a thing we see in show.
*shrugs* Which is why I think Manifest is mistaking viewpoint and demographics, but it doesn't change the fact that it doesn't alter probability. I don't think that's a problem with the story necessarily, but as others have pointed out, Twilight's monomania and leadership roles do mean Manifest is going to have to explain why it wasn't brought to her attention before. Of course, Twilight's monomania does give a good reason for that, too.
At this point you're both starting to become inaccurate and disingenuous. Faust designed them to be a range of personalities and archetypes, but that doesn't make them random; indeed, part of the point was that such a wide variety could be friends. Five of them were friends and acquaintances as of the pilot, which would be post-clocktower, but certainly didn't make them separate from the beginning. Two lived in Ponyville; two lived in the same city near Ponyville-- remember, Flutters fell not far from Ponyville and Cloudsdale still apparently migrates by-- and one is both unusual and probably within walking distance of the place anyway. That is to say, Pinkie's family farm is, at least if we go by Trixie's throwaway lines, within walking distance for a mare who's lost her primary means of sustainable road travel and supplies.
Yes, Rarity makes a cranky comment about Dash when it's brought up that she's responsible for the mane/tail disaster, but she also clearly follows Dash's lead in investigating Twilight, and is certainly within a circle of acquaintances. Having a further interest in common without being directly involved within that is certainly not out of the question.
Nope. They were all at least familiar with everypony else; Flutters and Rarity have been having their spa dates for years, Rainbow's an important local member of government (weather manager, remember?), Applejack's a part of one of the more prominent families in town even if they've fallen on hard times, Flutters is well-known for taking care of peoples' animals (so AJ & Rares connection), and Pinkie is Pinkie. How close they are or aren't isn't really noted, other than Rarity grousing about RD's uncouthness, but she does that through most of the show anyway. They're also all willing to follow RD to investigate Twilight pretty instinctively. They're acting like at least low level friends, though without that tight-knit 'spark.' Or at least, I'll note, it's certainly plausible even before you count parallels to EqG, which get a bit fishy in this matter.
I'm not sure that counting anything more than two here is fair; Manifest was listing a variety of factors. Which gets into another point: contributing factors and complex motivations.
The Clocktower appears to be pretty good at providing non-kink or low-kink environments too, and Manifest made it pretty clear that the 'Tower, despite having a number of draws and the ability to actively recruit and manage, is no more than half of the kinky population. The Six could very well all fit into that, and while you're not the only person I was addressing, you seem to still be missing the fact that you haven't actually made solid arguments against a group like the Six having a common interest or motivation. You've made them for why you wouldn't in your fic, but it's not show-canon exclusive, save that the show barely acknowledges anything beyond married het sex because it's targeted at 5-7 year old girls.
That's kind of extreme, given that none of it excludes more complicated motivations and it certainly doesn't change their characters as they interact in public life to have more layers to it in private. Given that Manifest doesn't want to portray the limited Tower that you suggest, perhaps you should write your own version if it's something you want to see? I don't think you're making convincing arguments that it's OOC, but it also does not seem likely that the SoD debt can be paid within the terms of the story for your headfanon sticking points. Note that I'm not saying fanon to disparage your POV; I just don't like the term headcanon because it's usually pretty distinct from canon, no matter the show. Everyone deserves their own lens, even if it doesn't have the weight of canon.
And this is why. We don't know that's the reason she moved to the ground. In fact, about all we know is that it's one of the reasons for her preference; of course, in Cutie Mark Chronicles, we also see that it's her involvement with animals and specifically for the animals of this place from her cutie marking. She could have had several reasons for moving, and unfortunately, Flutter Brutter answered none of them in the positive, only putting paid to some fanon ideas like "she lost contact with/doesn't have/doesn't like" her family.
And? if she's monomaniacally obsessed-- which she is-- they may have just shrugged and moved on, especially if Cadance and/or Celestia said "need to wait," not because it would be bad for her or they disapprove, but just because she was at a different point emotionally or intellectually, it would have been wrong of them to push her in, but they have no obligation to stop themselves
*facepalm* Okay, you're misreading what Manifest did, and I hope you understand that comparisons to Gor are not only uncalled for but massively insulting. Gor is massively, vilely sexist and unrelentingly so; it's also heavy noncon, with even the lightest trappings of consent being dowsed in the sexist assumptions and then lit on fire. It's not just "a kinky fantasy." Let's look at the most direct authorial statement on the matter:
A) That's 'believed'. By that particular cult.
B) Even if the spoilered part is deliberate word of authorial god, it doesn't change the friendship aspect. If you think long term kink relationships don't have the spark of friendship-- don't require it-- then you don't understand kink. Just because the 'heat' took this form doesn't mean that the cult's right that it's the only form; it just means it isn't foreign to it-- which it shouldn't be. Even in an Equestria where the standard story was true, I'd expect an SSC relationship to be windigo-evaporating. You have to have respect, trust, generosity to each other, a huge amount of honesty in your limitations, intents, and actions, loyalty, compassion, all of that, and there is definitely a spark to that. Even group associations rather than just pair-bondings are highly friendship-based, and have to be. There are corruptions and exploitations of that, sure, but the same is true of just vanilla/platonic relationships.
C) Which leads to the final point: even if the cult's beliefs are correct that this particular spark was kept alive through this tradition, it's pretty clear that's not what held the windigo at bay until the tribes grew wroth and exploitative upon each other as a whole. The actual message of friendship isn't gone, nor is the need and blessing of vanilla/platonic/non-platonic/etc. friendships.
7435174 I love this question. I'm going to semi-copypaste an answer from earlier.
Finding a recruiter is the easy bit. If you're aware of Clocktower and know a member, you can easily ask to join. Some ponies get invited by existing members too. Existing members would know who their local recruitment agent and transit hub is and can point ponies in the right direction.
It's also by invitation. Princess Cadence seems to be able to sense ponies developing an interest in kink and will assign Clocktower members to scout them for membership, quite often friends or existing lovers if possible. There is rumour that there is some correlation between ponies she identifies and purchases of BDSM storybooks written by the enigmatic Love Song. Cadence and Clocktower are aware that kink can be risky, even dangerous, especially for beginners dabbling without safe guidance. The scouting of these ponies and the offering of membership in the fold is considered an extension of Clocktower's mission to keep kink safe, sane and consensual..
Joining is the difficult bit, which we'll get to see through Twilight's eyes soon. The application process is quite involved, with ponies having to submit criminal records checks, a healthy bank statement proving they are productive members of society and can continue to remain so, as well as attend a full health check at a Clocktower-approved health clinic. Surprisingly, barely any ponies are put off by the difficult application process, as knowing how rigorous Clocktower is about their applications is actually a major attraction point for sensible ponies. It's like loving mushrooms and being told the supermarket will make sure all the ones they have available are non-poisonous. Afterwards there's an induction process where ponies get the safe words, rules, health and safety and BDSM first aid lessons drilled into them. Once they've completed all that then they are allowed inside the upper palace and dungeon levels.
7435203 Ok, so it's the sort of "I know a guy" or "I got lucky and got invited" rout. Also attend the seminar after filling out paperwork.
So let's say I was in this universe and I had this sort of kink, I'd need to have a buddy that'll go to an agent and say "Hey, let's see if my friend Bry7x7x7 can join eh?" or I get scouted out and invited?
Hmm... this is some pretty interesting stuff, even it it's not my usual kink.
The sweeter side of me enjoys more conventional consensual sex, while the perverse side of me prefers forced/coerced submission (purely fictional of course). Never really been a big fan of mixing the two genres up with genuinely consensual submission, it usually just kind of defeats the appeal of either so far as I'm concerned. This story, however, manages to somehow strike most of the right balance, at least in what I've read so far.
I think Twilight's cluelessness helps by creating an initial sense of suspicious tension as well as sympathetic concern for the very "real" danger she could inadvertently put herself in due to her own ignorance. It's just enough to get me enticed long enough to really gain an appreciation for both your writing style and the detailed world lore your building.
Not sure if I'll ever be a regular around here, but I think I'll need to keep an eye out every now and again. Especially since one of your training manuals seemed to indicate the possible inclusion of gender-flipping, which is pretty much my all time #1 fetish.
7435285 Spoiler alert.
derpicdn.net/img/2014/11/25/771372/large.png
The transformation center exists for a reason.
7435222 Is it?
7435305 Oh my.
7435310 Pretty much. I suppose one can take a risk and ask around for it. At least the society has a pretty innocent name that allows you to say, 'I'm looking for Clocktower'. If people ask what it is then at least you can answer 'it's a repair shop' and walk away.
7435322 I see
7434640
I think out of deference to Manifest, I'm going to leave this be rather than attempting to continue the argument.
do you do the artwork yourself, or do you happen to have somebody else do it?
7435681 I kind of did the art. A lot of it is MS Paint level ability and cropping and editing of show vectors, pictures I traced as well as existing free domain art covered up with photoshop layer effects. A few things like the master phaser and the breeding rack I drew myself using photoshop. I knew the best I could achieve is something minimalistic so a lot of the art was aimed at recreating 1940s art deco, y'know, Bioshock style.
It also had the benefit of making the pictures safe to post on Fimfiction (well, chapter 1 did get past the mods, so...)
I'm loving where the story is going and it's hurting me to have to wait
7436069 Well, since I've been keeping you waiting...
i64.tinypic.com/2dchlop.jpg
Here, have some more art for the next chapter.
yeah, noticed that two of the images seemed remarkably familiar, bit of searching I realised it was from one of grumblepluck's pet-dash images, others might not realise whos art you're using, that's why crediting the original is generally a good idea, even if it's only in the image description
7436154 The Fimfic GDoc importer has been messing up a lot of my BB codes on import, making me loose a lot of formatting and completely screwing all my quote boxes that contained the image credits. I've edited them back in.
7436188 Clearly, it's sabotage! -.-;; I've just started expecting things to be BLEEPED nonconsensually from the importer, so I copy the imported text back into a blank gdoc and use find and replace to get rid of the patterns then eye-scan the rest.
Oh yes, this is a great chapter.
When will the next chapter be here?
7435305 Dear lord, you just spawned a head canon for why Blue Blood is a bitch. He is one, minus the K9.
(Or she in this case)
7443917 Speaking from experience, the best way to achieve geek marriage is to learn to listen, don't let your pride get in the way, and be prepared to have your preconceived notions challenged. And both be honest about your intentions and work to become a friend first. That isn't to say Nice Guy (tm) style moves where you pursue friendship as a sort of back route to romance works; they don't for the most part, and when they do, they tend towards toxicity and falling apart fast.
I suppose the better way to put that is this: even if you feel mad crushing on a geek woman at first, don't pursue interaction with them for the purposes of romance. Get to know them; be prepared to acknowledge that what you think you see at first isn't necessarily who they are. Once you feel on solid ground about them as a person, once the crush moments have faded a bit and you can get along socially, then see if romance is an option from there. A lot of geeks grow up with love at first sight/fated love stories, or the GameFAQ romance problem, and end up alienating both friends and potential romance partners by feeling like their emotions trump their partners' lives.
Oh, and being a graceful loser and gallant winner are _important_. Competitiveness comes with being a geek, but if you can't stand to be beaten by a potential SO, and/or you make losing to you an unpleasant experience, you won't be able to share a lot of the aspects of your hobbies.
(Been married to my spouse for seven years come the seventh, as it happens, and dated for four years before that while I got my second postgrad training done for my teacher's cert)