3: The Champion of Lost Causes
Loose Leaf’s day began with a newspaper tossed onto his doormat, and a little later, a brick thrown through his bedroom window. The crash might have startled him awake had he not already been in the snooze-button-phase of his morning routine. After making his bed, he fetched a broom and dustpan he now left out for easy access. The brick had a booklet tied to it; as expected, it was his report. Instead of the usual profanities and threats that normally occupied the margins, the commenter had thought his point was better made by pressing a cow pie between the pages. On the back cover was scratched, Next time it won’t be your window.
This statement was truer than the author probably realized. His apartment had increasingly fewer windows to throw bricks through. He deposited the booklet into the dumpster in the adjacent alleyway, and placed his newly acquired brick with the others. There were now four beside his night stand. Loose Leaf didn’t know exactly what compelled him to keep them somedays. Luna had asked him to stay in Ponyville for the time being, so that only meant more for him. He entertained the idea of building a fireplace out of all the bricks thrown through his window. Now wouldn’t that be something? Failing all else, it would be quite the conversation piece. Of course this all relied on him actually having panes of glass to smash through. He would have to go speak his landmare about scheduling some repairs. Part of him wondered if he should forgo his dreams of a fireplace entirely and install iron bars over his windows.
He brewed himself a pot of coffee, and poured it into a tea cup. His friends back in Las Pegasus had found it endlessly amusing that a pony named Loose Leaf would only drink black coffee, and as a birthday present one year, bought him a tea set. He missed them.
After smearing jelly on top of an everything bagel, he retrieved the newspaper from his door mat, and placed it on his table. With a deep breath, he unfolded the pages, skimming through for any mention of the report. Sure enough there was a story in the back section about it, nothing too deep, just a description of a “controversial” report on the Nightmare Night Riots.
That couldn’t be all there was. He searched further into the paper. Just in case the brick didn’t fully convey the town’s opinion of Loose Leaf and his report, the editorial section of the Ponyville Herald was kind enough to spell it out for him.
Yes, there was a disturbance caused by the human on Nightmare Night, and some ponies were injured and even killed. But to call such an event a riot, as both Princess Luna, and her lackey Loose Leaf do, is to misconstrue ponies simply attempting leave a crowded area for their personal safety.
The tall tales of the human’s mistreatment are hyperbole at best, and at the end of a day, a fruitless attempt to shame us for pushing away a human (who shouldn’t have entered Ponyville in the first place.)
Another writer accused Loose Leaf of libel and slander. The supposed targets were the local heroes Twilight Sparkle and Lucky, the latter whom Loose Leaf had unjustly arrested. (Like most ponies, this commenter missed a step in the fact checking; it was Lyra who levied the charge against Lucky, not Loose Leaf. Though he did encourage her to do so, admittedly.)
In yet another column, Lacey Loom, widow of Pokey Pierce, weighed in on her husband’s death. She adamantly refused to believe that Pokey and Lucky were trying to frame the human, and insist the two stallions were there only to save Lyra. To the widow and children, Loose Leaf was telling wretched lies about a dead stallion to further some twisted agenda. As for Lyra, her head took enough knocks for her horn to fall off that night; whatever Lyra remembered, she probably remembered wrong. Her testimony must not be taken at face value. This second article ended with,
If Loose Leaf hates Ponyville so much, I don’t see why he sees the need to live in our humble town. I think he’d be much happier somewhere else, where ponies don’t mind their names being dragged through the mud under the guise of ‘justice’.
He let out a sigh. One should not seek peace of mind by perusing through editorial sections, the earth pony decided.
Still, the newspaper was not all doom and gloom. The editors of the newspaper put an op-ed on the adjacent page, that appeared to actually discuss the ramifications of the report. The human Jeremiah Walker was not as vicious as we believed. Rather, our town was unaccommodating, and dare I write, hostile. This event shines an uncomfortable light on how uncivilized we can behave. It was not Jeremiah Walker that destroyed the town, or killed Pokey Pierce. It was ponies that did all that. He is not the monster, we are.
Loose Leaf sipped his bitter coffee. Well, one hundred twenty pages, and ten months of work. At least one pony seemed to get the message.
He read it again. He thought he would find a voice echoing his own reassuring, affirming even. Instead, the experience was oddly deflating.
He got up to look out his one good window at the streets. Apart from missing bricks from the adjacent building, everything was business as usual in Ponyville. Loose Leaf wasn’t quite sure why he would have expected anything different. He didn’t think that everypony was going to storm town hall, begging mea culpa, begging Mayor Mare for laws and reform. But he didn’t think that they would all be doing nothing, either.
* * *
After a brief stop at the police station to report this morning’s act of vandalism, Loose Leaf entered town hall to begin the day’s work.
Pepper was busy transferring the office mail into everypony’s inbox, but still gave him a friendly nod when he arrived. “Morning Loo,” Pepper said, smiling warmly as he trotted into town hall. True to her name, Pepper Mill had a grey coat and black freckles. True to her name, her cutie mark was a pepper shaker. Loose Leaf found it funny that most civil workers had literal cutie marks. The observation’s wit fell flat when he had pointed it out to his coworkers. Office humor was one of his “needs improvement” skills, it seemed.
“Morning, Pepper.” He dropped his messenger bag by his desk, adjacent to hers. He still was not used to how clean his desk looked. When he was assembling the report for Princess Luna, he was excused from his normal duties in town hall. The days had been hectic, filled with organizing notes and checklists, half on his desk, and half stuffed in his bag. He was always running out of the office for interviews or for seeking out ponies he had to talk to next. For the first time in eight months he could see his desk calendar. He ripped off as many pages, or at least until he ran out of them. With a sigh he made a note in his journal to buy another.
Pepper’s voice cut through his thoughts. “I cannot believe it. I’ve been secretary here for eight years, and in two weeks on the job, you’ve gotten more fan mail than anypony else has gotten in their careers.”
By fan mail, she meant letters about the report on the human, which were vocal about their enmity towards Loose Leaf, and liberal in their use of colorful obscenities. Those that did not threaten violence would often threaten to vote against him, or even impeach him. Both meaningless gestures as he was a low-wage, unelected employee. He could be fired, but not impeached; though he doubted that he would be fired solely on the basis of popularity. Even if his superiors were swayed from their indifference of him by the voice of the masses, they would hesitate to directly defy the princess.
Well, he took job security where he could find it, he supposed. “I’ll look through them,” he said.
Pepper looked at him strangely. “Are you sure? I was going to throw most of this out. It’s only going to ruin your day.”
“I may as well read through them, in the off chance there is anything constructive written. Nothing they say will bother me as much as the fact that nopony is doing anything about it all. At least when ponies hate me, I know that I had some sort of impact.”
“Okay, that’s your prerogative, and I’m not going to stop you, Loo.” She paused. “But I still think you’re being stubborn and masochistic.”
He gave a wry laugh. “I think you may be right.”
“Here’s the interdepartmental mail,” she said, laying down two letters into his inbox. “And here’s from the mail slot.” She dropped a wrapped parcel, and a hoofull of letters.
The parcel was yet another copy of the report, annotated with unsavory hoofwritten comments, and illuminated with crude drawings of phalluses and graphic depictions of the events described. He quickly threw this away.
The first letter was a complaint that his report was biased; he only interviewed ponies that were sympathetic to the human. Where was Fluttershy’s interview? Where was Lacey’s interview? The only pony who dared to directly disagree with you got arrested. What are we supposed to make of that? The second letter was a chain letter from his pegasus auntie in Cloudsdale, some nonsense about how if he didn’t forward this message to at least fifteen ponies, some forgotten empire would be re-enslaved by a mad prince thought long dead. He tossed that one out before he finished reading it. For the life of him, he had no idea why she sent it to his work address instead of his apartment.
“Well, that was fun,” Loose Leaf muttered under his breath. Now it was time for his actual job, which he had no idea how to do.
Luna had told him to make sure that nothing like the Nightmare Night riot ever happened again. Such a vague, unapproachable task. He had no idea what such a law would even look like. There were umpteen little things that led to that bizarre night. What was he to do? Ban ponies from hiring non ponies? Make rioting somehow even more illegal? There were endless crimes committed, from property damage, to harassment to battery, and the evidence to prove it all. Yet no pony save Loose Leaf seemed keen on pressing charges, or even preventing future occurrences. As most ponies were concerned, it was good enough to ban all humans.
He hardly had a year of experience, if that, working in town hall. He had no idea how he, a town clerk would even get a law passed. His special talent was organizing, processing, and collecting information. The corresponding cutie mark on his was a stack of paper —another literal cutie mark, he reflected wryly. He wanted to be an archivist, and working in town office seemed as good a place to start as any. Somehow he found himself out of his comfort zone. He wasn’t a persuaded, or public speaker, or a writer of legislation. If anything, he felt like a fish out of water. Or more appropriately, like an aspiring record-keeper asked to single-hoofedly reform an entire town.
But it was Luna’s wishes he was acting on, and he would find a way to carry them out. Everypony starts out unqualified, his mother had written to him earlier in the year, when he first started the report, filled with doubt and trepidation. Learn by doing. He was proud of his work when it was done, but it had little effect. So, he would just have to make the effect.
The previous conversations he initiated with Mayor Mare ended with her humming and hawwing. Any attempt to approach the subject of the human, and pressing charges against the ponies (let alone actually drafting a law), led to evasion after evasion.
Today, he was changing tactics. Today, he had a meeting with head councilpony Gray Slate.
At precisely a quarter past two, he found himself in the councilpony’s office. It bore simple decorations, a few pictures of his children now grown up, an athlete, a scientist, a nurse. A shelf of books rested atop a large filing cabinet in the corner. The stallion himself was waiting for him behind his cherry-wood desk. Gray Slate’s pictures showed him as having a jet black mane, though now it was streaked with flecks of grey and white, and his eyes had the faintest traces of crow’s feet. He wore a green sweater, with a skinny black tie tucked inside of it. An engraved ideograph of a stone tablet hung from the wall, in the likeness of his cutie mark. Again, a very literal name, Loose Leaf noted.
“Good afternoon, Councilpony,”
“Good afternoon, Loose Leaf.” The councilpony gestured for him to sit down, which Loose Leaf did. “I’ve been told that you’ve had some hooligans damaging your property. I’m sorry to hear that some ponies have been so narrow minded as to express their disagreement through an act of violence. ”
“I actually meant to speak to you about the report. Did you have a chance to read it?”
“I have. It’s quite a sad tale,” Gray Slate said, resting his hoof on a copy.
“Then you must understand the need for taking corrective action,” Loose Leaf said. “For a start, I’ve spoken with Luna. Her and I agree, it’s time that we bring charges up against the ponies who participated in the riot. It’s time that we draft laws that will prevent ponies from descending into chaos.”
“I understand the need to punish those that destroyed property on Nightmare Night,” Gray Slate replied, his words intoned and deliberate. “We can’t let ruffians believe that we’ll abide their misdeeds, lest other ruffians feel emboldened, who might inspire yet more of their ilk, so on and so forth.” He paused to raise an eyebrow at Loose Leaf. “You’ve heard of broken window theory, I take it? However, what you are suggesting is beyond the scope of necessary action. Ponyville faced a threat, and as is often the case, a group of concerned citizens banded together to address said threat. I’m certain you know of the return of Nightmare Moon, just three years prior? If it had not been for a group of ponies, and the Princess of The Sun herself, well, I don’t know what might have happened. I imagine Luna must be quite grateful for the intervention of our citizens.”
Loose Leaf felt himself slouching. He tried to keep his chin up. Now that he thought about it, the town did seem awfully reliant on Twilight Sparkle and others for almost all of their crises. “Those are different situations. When Nightmare Moon was released, ponies weren’t acting out of hate and fear. No pony died when she was dealt with. These weren’t concerned citizens, it was a mob of vigilantes who took it into their hooves to kill the human, without judge or jury.”
“I will admit, the situation was not resolved as cleanly as others. We experienced an unfortunate death, and some took advantage of the situation to cause destruction. That is unfortunate. But to change the laws, or even punish ponies for acting for their community is a fool’s errand. Not only would I lose the support of the ponies I represent, but It would dissuade good samaritans from saving the town if they fear they may be punished. In my sixteen years of service to Ponyville, I’ve lost count of the times I surely thought the town was going to be destroyed. Such is the nature of being so close to the Everfree Forest, but I digress. Each time we were saved by our citizens, or the occasional stranger roaming into town.”
“But…” Loose Leaf wracked his brain. Here he was on the defensive, when he hoped to at the very least, someone who would help refine his ideas. “But when I talk about passing new laws, it’s not about dealing with these sort of crises where the town is destroyed, It’s about preventing them from happening in the first place. If the human wasn’t treated the way he was, this might have never happened at all.”
Gray Slate looked flatly at his subordinate across the desk. “And tell me, in all your youthful wisdom, what would such a law look like?
Loose Leaf shifted uncomfortably in his seat. “That’s what I was hoping to discuss with you. I believed you would know the best way to create such a law.”
“The nature of a crisis is that it is often not seen before it occurs. What may prevent one crisis might not prevent another. The only thing we know for certain is that if we had not allowed this human to live in Ponyville, then that riot would have never happened. If you are suggesting that we pass laws of how to deal with uncivilized creatures entering our humble town, I am inclined to agree with you.”
“Councilpony, I must remind you that I’m acting on behalf on Luna, and she would not be pleased to see you obstructing her wishes.” Loose leaf’s voice was low. He didn’t want to pull the working-for-the-princess card, but here he was. He almost felt guilty about it.
The Council Pony gave a dry laugh. “Is that a threat, coming from someone whose payroll I control?”
“It’s a fact, not a threat.”
The two earth ponies stared each other down until young, foolish Loose Leaf lost his nerve and redirected his gaze. With a sigh, Gray Slate rose from his chair and retrieved a pitcher of sweet tea. He poured two glasses and offered one to Loose Leaf. Loose Leaf shook his head. “I insist. You wouldn’t expect it by my cutie mark or profession, but I do pride myself on my culinary skills. I know sweet tea’s not much, but I find a bit of lemon, pepper and a sprig of mint goes a long way.”
its
Loose Leaf took a sip. He didn’t care for it, he was too focused on rallying his scattered conviction to really focus on the flavor. Finally, he said, “Councilpony, the fact remains that this is the will of Canterlot.”
Gray took a long drink and sat down. He set the glass on his desk and gave Loose Leaf a soft chuckle. “The mayor answers to the princesses. I answer to the good ponies of Ponyville. I’ve been chosen to make decisions and manage this town according to the will of its citizens. And if my constituents were voicing the same concerns, I would duly act upon them. But you’re a one pony parade Loose Leaf! The princess may be cheering you on, but there’s a common sentiment that Princess Luna has meddled enough.”
Loose Leaf raised an eyebrow. “What do you mean, ‘meddled enough’?”
“I do not mean to offend. I truly appreciate the vigor that you’ve shown for participation in our town. And I do acknowledge Luna’s concerns, even if I do not agree. However you must understand. Us politicians — be it the humble servants of a town, or the princesses— we rule only with the consent of the people. Going against their wishes, which have been so clearly demonstrated... well, let’s call it politically foolish. I fear that Luna may not fully understand how much she is asking you to defy the will of the ponies. They don’t want to continue to let these dangerous creatures in. They want to be safe, confident in the harmony of Equestria, and all of those who inhabit it. I fear Luna may not get the reception she expects. She has a history of unpopular decisions, if you’ve heard the legends. I’d hate to have that perception of her persist even after her redemption. And I’d hate you Loose Leaf, to take such a risky course of action so early into your career.
“The report was a necessary step in the healing process. So many vagaries in the story that you were able to clarify. It was important to the healing process of the town. We better understand the intricacies. But I fear that how you’ve presented this information is too divisive, as though Ponyville is solely to blame. You would be advised to let the turbulence die down, instead of rocking the boat further. A town clerk is a great position of a pony your age. Your job isn’t to act out Princess Luna’s whims, it's to be a servant to the town. Don’t worry about making laws, or seeking justice. Let the ponies in charge of those areas handle that.”
“I only worry because no has bothered pressing charges for violent criminal acts, because ponies are turning a blind eye to injustice!”
“You’ve done enough, Loose Leaf.” The councilpony’s voice was even and short, though he gripped his glass tighter, and bit his lip. He stiffly reclined, and took another sip of tea. “You do not speak for Ponyville, you deal with certificates and forms and minutes. I would hate to have others feel as though you’re stepping on their hooves. If the princess wishes a course of action to be taken in Ponyville, the town council would be more than pleased to be to invite her to our meetings and listen to what suggestions she has. But I will not be instructed to change laws on the ill-defined premises you are presenting. Now I think a drafted letter is in order to the Canterlot administration. Thank you for raising your concerns. I imagine Pepper will need some help with those change of name forms that have been piling up.”
Loose Leaf nodded his head curtly, and departed back to his desk. He stared a hole into the cardboard sheet that was once his desk calendar. It would have been in his best interest to write yet another letter to Luna about his lack of progress. As soon as he was up for it. He wanted to to think, but all of his plans ultimately relied on ponies actually listening to him and Luna.
* * *
The longest day of the year, the day of the Summer Sun celebration, had already passed, and though the days were long they were dwindling back down. It was the golden hour when he left town hall, weary and confused. A few scenic clouds drifted across the sky, catching the rays. All around him, the vendors in their marketplace were laughing, chattering, packing up their carts to return home. He watched a husband and wife, an earth pony and a pegasus, play with their foal, lifting him up to better see the view from the terraced street.
With a sigh, he took the cobblestone road back to his apartment. Despite his muddled thoughts, he mentally composed the letter he would write to Luna about his fruitless meeting. His train of thought was derailed as he saw his planned pen strokes devolve into a bumbling apology and resignation.
He shook his head to clear his mind, as if he got the angle just right, the nagging doubt might tumble out of his ear. Yet still Gray Slate’s words echoed. The idyllic scenery of the little town reminded him that he was the disruption, a disturber of the peace, a judgemental outsider.
He pushed his door open and slumped into the comfy chair in the living area. He was in a position more than anypony to know what had happened throughout the previous year. Yet the truth seemed like muddied water, like all of his searching just kicked up more silt and now he could see even less than before. He was kicking up mud for mud’s sake, and the townsponies pitied him, almost felt embarrassed for him. Loose Leaf, who was trying to guilt ponies that were recovering from a terrible tragedy. Loose Leaf who didn't know a lost cause when he saw one. Loose Leaf, who wouldn't just let the past be the past.
In the gloom of his apartment, a crumb of glass gleamed from the kitchen floor. He pulled himself off the chair and dutifully fetched the dust pan. In the process of cleaning, he in turn saw a letter resting in his mail slot catcher.
Picking it up, he was half surprised to see the letter was signed, and returned addressed to the Golden Oaks Library on the West side of town.
Loose Leaf,
The Non-Equine Rights Movement seeks to address the ill treatment of non-equines in Equestria. We have long felt that we were not seen the same as ponies, and the events of Nightmare Night proved that. A non-equine was hunted for a crime he did not commit, by a mob that had anything but due process on its mind. A non-equine that was denied the right to work and live in Ponyville, with the constant threat of being exiled and left to die in the everfree forest.
Since that night we have struggled to get the “proper” citizens of Ponyville to acknowledge our concerns, to even raise awareness on the issue. At least until you published your report, Loose Leaf.
In those interviews, so many non-equines saw bits and pieces of their own lives: being denied jobs, having doors slammed in their faces, and being taken advantage of without any legal recourse.
Your interviews have brought to light the misdeeds and prejudice straight from the ponies’ mouths. We are indebted to you. You helped us fully understand the challenges we face as non eqs, and gave the foundation to address our problems.
Our first goal is to make Ponyville the first town in the nation accept all species as equal citizens. We are hosting a forum to generate ideas and determine the movement’s direction. We would be honored if you could attend, this Thursday at eight o’clock, at the Golden Oaks Library. We gladly welcome any insight you can provide.
Regards,
Spike the Dragon.
Loose Leaf assembled his dinner, a couple of leftover carrot dogs. Somepony —well not somepony but someone, a whole bunch of someones— had taken his message to heart. Any excitement Loose Leaf might have felt was curdled by the fact that he didn’t have any solution, in spite of his government position.
He pondered if Spike’s faith wasn’t misplaced. He chewed as he gazed at the cardboard taped over the lack of a window, trying to see through it.
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Awwwh shit, my favorite story updated
No amount of law can change mentality. Education can, dialogue can.
Thse are the lever Loose Leaf should use.
Spike's movement is fine, but very accusative, just like the report was. Loose Leaf need to find a (some) pony(ies) who isn't (aren't) hated by the town's population and have said pony(ies) talk to other about what could be improved. The situation is very tricky, ponyville is scared and upseted. They need to be reminded of the good things; Walker's being helpful, Spike being a good friend and so on. They need to be reminded of the positives aspect of being an open, friendly town.
7642463
dont forget, spike is labeled as a pet. so being anything other than accusatory is gonna be hard.
themarysue.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/3779149-no-you-move-cap-says.jpg
In any case, Loose Leaf seems to have become a ponified Dr. Stockmann ( "An Enemy of the People").
7642509 That speech sounds great and all, but that's how you get a war.
But I digress.
It's been a long while since the riots and the aftereffects are still felt and I believe Spike is shooting himself in the foot by inviting Loose Leaf into his budding movement. The ponies are still seeing Loose Leaf as an biased agitator and I doubt they'd be even more keen to listen to Spike when associated with him.
7642463
Absurd, there should be laws to punish those who turn to vigilantism and murder to punish those who are innocent, especially in this case where someone not even the target has died and only because they were in the process of framing someone for murder and crippling another. The residents have irrevocably demonstrated that they are unable to reach the correct conclusion through mob justice and that they are prone to overreacting, resorting to execution/murder when the evidence or wrongdoing is circumstantial at best and they do have individuals within their number more than happy to resort to framing innocents and inciting these murder mobs simply because they don't like someone.
This has to be severely punished.
To not punish this behaviour is to invite it to happen again.
7642561 You can punish the riot, it is already illegal. But as mentionned in the chapter, without any pony willing to press charge for the destruction their property suffered, it would be illegal to give punishement.
Walker was threatened, but not harmed, punishing the mob could create big backlash. Not to mention at this point in time, Walker and other non-pony aren't even full citizen. Is it even illegal to attack them?
It IS immoral, for sure, but is it illegal?
And even then, what would you do? Deport and imprison the whole town? How would you know who did or did not take aprt in the mob?
Furthrmore, who would apply the punishment. Local official are reluctant.
Giving non ponies equal rigth is a good long term solution, it would give them protection. Of course, that protection would need to be enforced properly, but the local officials are apparently willing to look the otther way around. A law is just word if the people don't respect it.
If you convince them that the law is worth respecting, then the law becomes strong.
7642579
So let me get this straight, your argument is that they should not be punished for literally attempting to murder someone just because it is inconvenient to do so? To me that seems completely irrational.
For the punishment, I would suggest that the whole situation be judged by a higher authority and the the punishment be sanctions on the whole town and nationwide publication and admonishment of their behaviour by Princess Celestia and Luna. The entire town has demonstrated that they are more than happy to look the other way when a sentient being is being tormented and jumped at the opportunity to straight up murder him simply because to are too idiotic and naive to be capable of seeing him as anything other than a threat.
*Slow claps*
In a way, Loose Leaf has traded places with Jeremiah. Most of the town hates him, what few allies he has are friends and non-equines and the local government wants nothing to do with him.
Unfortunately for them, while they hold hostility towards him and Luna, they forgot that in doing so they drag in Celestia. So go ahead, dig down and make trenches, make as much noise as you want about how humans and by association, non-equines, are not your equal. The moment Leaf is actually harmed because he couldn't leave well enough alone, just know the next sunrise isn't going to be a good day :}
Another wonderful chapter, I await the next
7642601
Can an entire town go to court? Is that a thing they can do?
I'll be honest, whether it's good or bad, It would be ridiculously cathartic to see a whole chunk of Ponyville in front of the Princesses and a grand jury, hearing a guilty verdict and a slam of a gavel.
7642628 I wouldn't say that it would be the kind of thing that everyone had to be present for. In my mind I imagined a high court or Celestias throne room making a decree type thing.
7642601 So you are punishing the whole town.
Does it include Rainbow Dash? Lyra? Loose Leaf? The foals who weren't even there? Twilligth and her friend that were barricaded inside the library?
How will you separate the "good" from the "bad"?
And most importantly, what would you charge them for? Attempt at killing some unknown monster of the everfree? From the point of view of Equesria's law, Walker isn't a person.
So yes, in an ideal world, the princess should punish more then just Lucky.
But I fail to see how it could be done.
How it could be done without creating even more violences.
How it could be done without creatin ressentment and making sure that any future human (if not any future non-pony) would end up in an even worse situation.
7642601 7642579 There is another method that can be used, we obviously don't know how modernized and similar Equestrian law is to our world, and this method can be seen as petty and downright tyrannical.
The offense of Lèse-majesté
On that night, Luna called to order on the rioters, they did pause to listen. However, her reasoning with them was met with anger and with Lucky's public denouncement to oppose Luna, they essentially rebelled against the crown. So by that, Luna's free to charge whatever, if not her, Celestia.
Now bear in mind, any laws that could or should exist, essentially do not until the author says so. As seen how foreigners, exclusively non-equines, are with little to no protection from the law.
7642463
So was the civil rights movement. The only way to get the attention needed to make a change was to be noticed, and this does. Even if it doesn't change Ponyville's minds, it will have a ripple affect across Equestria, and may very well put the needed pressure on Ponyville needed for change to happen.
Twilight Sparkle and Rainbow Dash. Now that Twilight has had her discussion with Celestia, and shown just how wrong she was, and since everyone listens to her, she's really can make a difference. If she actually has the courage to speak up, that is. I have a hunch Rainbow will if Twilight doesn't. Fluttershy would be absolutely critical, but since she didn't talk before, she probably won't now.
Agreed, but that is no justification for doing nothing. Punishment is one half of discouraging any behavior. Basically dealing with the current problem by punishing those and saying 'what you did is wrong and you need to understand it's wrong.' The education and dialogue are the second, and are to prevent it from happening again.
7642561
Problem here is no one believes it, and therefore the authority's won't act on it if they don't, probably if charges were brought forward. Even then, the likelyhood of them being convicted would be nil. Only reason they arrested Lucky was because Lyra pressed charges, and he wasn't taken in by the local authorities if I remember correctly, since they knew they'd just release him. No one else pressing charges for the property damage is either because they agree with the mob/were a part of it, or they're too scared of being against public opinion. They've seen how everyone treats Loose Leaf, after all.
That's not to say they shouldn't be punished. They should, it's a matter of enforcement.
Though when you stop and think about it, Luna and Celestia can intervene if they want to. The ponies of Ponyville flat out committed treason when they attempted to attack Luna. The only reason she and Celestia haven't is because they want to stay hands off and let ponies like Twilight fix their own problems, only coming in if things get truly screwed up. They probably could come in and find each criminal one by one if they wanted to. That would be rather unpopular as well, since they still see Lucky as a hero.
A point Loose Leaf really should have brought up is how the ponies would be acting now if it was Celestia that was backing him up. Wanna bet they'd agree immediately? Mistakes in the past or no, Luna is the freaking co-ruler of Equestria.
7642646 That is the idea, punish the whole town for creating an environment where this was allowed to happen. You have, however, twisted the language I used to make it easier to argue against, to make it seem like I said the entire town including the children should face multi year jail terms.
That is not my idea, the main, most effective punishment out of what I mentioned would be the public admonishment by those almost the entire nation idolizes. It is a method of putting the spotlight on this behaviour and very clearly stating "this is bad, don't do this". This would lead to reluctance to take part in similar situations and for the more proactive members of society to actively resist such behaviour on a national scale. The moment you put doubt into the mind of rioters about the justness of their cause you greatly reduce the chance of a riot, if even one rioter decides to not join in or to actively resist because of this then it would be a success. If I had to make an estimate then the number of people who would be effected by this would be much higher.
Can you imagine what the opposite situation would be like? You know, the one you are arguing for, where the event gets great publicity mainly from sources in Ponyville where it is almost unanimous that "the creature" is guilty and that they were more than in the right for what they did to him. This reinforces those ideas across the entire nation and increases the chances of similar events happening again and again and again.
A sanction that could be put against Ponyville which makes perfect sense to me would be the slashing of government funding for luxury public projects. I say this because besides Lucky who should be sentenced without prejudice for inciting a riot, manslaughter, conspiracy to murder and vandalism, the rest of the town was still far too receptive of the idea that it would be OK to murder a being they just didn't like. In an ideal world everyone would be sentenced in a court, but I feel that the social stigma of having been responsible for the sanctions would lead to those responsible being punished for their actions somewhat and reinforce for everyone else that that behaviour is not acceptable.
FInally! I could kiss you. *Licks face like a dog*
7642717
I did no such thing. You said, and I quote "This has to be severely punished.". I asked you how to punish those reponsible, and you answered that the whole town should be punished. I quote again: "sanction on the whole town". To wich I asked you if you would really put those sanction on the whole town. Including the innocents.
I am not trying to argue (yet, at least), I am trying to understand your position. Because while I agree that there should be -idealy- repercussion for those who sougth to harm Walker, I don't see how it could reasonably be done. Or rather, I fail to see how it could be done in a manner that would solve problem.
You also mentionned admonishment, wish to be fair is a good idea and is part of what I called in my initial comment educating.
But it is not a punishment.
If we choose to extend the punishment to more then Lucky for allowing an environement that allow such event to happend (not the exact quote, I admit), then the line became extremly blury. One could then argue that many uncontrolled factor went into play.
I think we both agree that the whole situation could've been avoided if the mentality of Ponyville's resident had been different. In a lot of way. And I think we both agree it need to be changed and both Ponyville and the rest of Equestria should understand that such behavior should not be seen again.
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7642797 I have explained my solution to the problem in detail, public admonishment by a idolized figure for those who cannot be directly identified, the official punishment of limited government funding for the town and court judgement by impartial jury and judge, for the scale of the crime I would assume high court in Canterlot and Celestia for Lucky and anyone else who can be directly identified as the local justice system is obviously incapable of correctly punishing the crimes. What more do you want? A step by step walk through of how, for the next century, they should go about spreading the idea that Ponies shouldn't be dicks to non-ponies? That is beyond the scope of a comment section on fimfiction. I would argue that your solution of letting it be and "Educating" is asinine and doomed to fail when the perpetrators of the worst and most publicised example of the problem are let off without punishment.
Edit: I would feel punished if the Queen of Britain directly identified my home town of being guilty of, for example, the widely accepted attempted murder of a foreign national. Can you even imagine the shame and social stigma I would face if that happened?
7642866 I've got two point of achopment with this.
First, the limitation in funding. It would punish those who are living in the town and are innocent.
Second, the "and anyone else who can be directly identified", as I said, it will most likely be impossible to indetify those. Who would testify? Other rioters? Delator?
But I feel we will need to agree to disagree here.
Anyway, nice discussing with you. Take care till next time!
If the town doesn't want to change its behavior then there is no helping it. The only way would be to replace all the officials and re-educate the population for at least two generations if not more.
Awesome
7642866 7642907 I'll say this again
I commend your zeal in arguing how things should be done but this isn't our story and who is to say that other universes even follow our standards of morality and justice? The fact they don't even have laws to protect different species, should've shown the differences in historical circumstances that shaped their society and laws. Races are equal nowadays because at points in our history we looked at ourselves and thought 'Holy shit, this is wrong', Equestria apparently has not, this is one of their points.
And how the author wishes for the inhabitants of this story to do with it, is entirely his choice.
7642579
The state can press charges itself. Hollywood has unfortunately perpetuated the myth that as long as a victim doesn't "press charges" then criminals cannot be punished.
In this circumstance, the state would merely assume the role of plaintiff (which it has every right to do) and pursue justice itself.
Glad to see an update, I could not stop reading the original (binge read it in a few sittings).
I love your ability to make me hate characters .
huzzah more
'yay the 'over oppressed minority' rising up againt the evil 'white stallions' government. to claim their 'deserved equal freedom'
Well fuck me silly, what a surprise.
Glad to see you back.
7642579
Just a point here regarding law. This is based off of the American legal system but there can still be parallels.
Source:http://atkinsonlawoffices.com/blog/the-victim-is-not-pressing-charges-why-am-i-still-being-charged/
What, again?
Well, it seems that one of Loose Leaf's solutions can be to institute Equal Rights for all species. It's not a salve-all, and it'll kick up a storm to start (as we've seen any time civil rights reform is introduced on Earth...), but it'll make a big difference in the end.
Of course, the key is for Twilight Sparkle to not be at the meeting (even though it's in her own home), because she'll probably open her mouth and say something phenomenally stupid
The only think that could be done to asure that this mistreatment desn't happen again, is to aprove the law of non-equine individuals to achieve citizenship, in that case, any mistreatment would be illigal, and as a result, punishable by the current established law, sadly the Human case wont take part in this, because the case ocured before said law, Loose Leaf can only can aspire for the future, not the past.
He should target all the cites to vote in favor of the new law. poniville won't vote for it, if most of equestria vote in favor, and ponyville against, then the law will passed, and once is passed, it can start in ponyville.
okay no matter what political system you use, the councilpony's words where clearly treasanus against the crown, equestrian may be liberal in it's politics but it still has a crown, maybe it's time for luna and celestia to remind the council of ponbyvile of this, by disbanding the council until such a time as they see fit to remember they represent the people, but they still answer to the CROWN, I mean seriously have Luna and celestia land in pony Ville and declare the mayor as local dictator (the roman term completely different thing) beholden to the crown and order her to make the law, if anybody objects well there's an army, and there's two super powered alicorns, and oh look, there's another army, side question do thestrals (bat ponies) count as non-equines?
7642959 as there crowned, celestia and luna literaly can do that. it should be a last resort but they can do that without batting an eyelash.
7643052 well I find your argument very entertaining, might I point out that they could simply trial lucky and then publicly admonish twilight, applejack, fluttershy and pinkie, essentialy as local and national heros each had a duty to be the ones at the ehad of breaking barriers, instead they built them stronger and in twilights case even supported the publics view by not speaking up. being admonished by a national heroic figure is a truly horrifying things for a town, but to publicly shame four of there local heros by celestia? it would destroy the towns moral, whch would elad to it possible to rebuild it better and start undoing some of the damage done.
I would be able to take this whole melodramatic presentation of what happened in the first story so much more seriously, if we all didn't know for a fact that Jeremiah was being a complete hostile twit during all of it and there is really no one here who didn't get what he had coming, on either side. Seriously, is that ever going to be acknowledged?
The sheer irony of that in a story that has been going "no one wants to acknowledge the reality of the situation" for three chapters now is staggering, by the way.
7643359
Agh thats horrible about the negative thumb
but as for the Crown doing what you suggest might never work
okay sure they get rid of the problem right now and a few might feel bad about being wrong infront of the Crown
But the Lesson would not be learned
The people who are wrong NEED to be shown why they are wrong
Like how the majority of America, back in the day, and still do, fuck over white people.
Simply saying what they are doing is wrong was not going to change any thing, AND sure there was no omnipotent being there, but that only helps as long as they are around to see it, and IF you turn the state into a dictatorship based on the FEAR of doing wrong.
These people need to know why they are wrong and learn to live with other races and learn not to discriminate
This is getting hard to read. Not because of grammar or spelling errors. Rather hown everything is being hastily swept under the rug. I get that most of the citizens are probably embarrassed of what they did or have some weird Twisted sense that they did the right thing. But just the roundabout way everything is going is just dragging things along.
7642463 Sadly, the issue is that the people involved want change now, so that they can benefit from it.
And the right kinds of changes that would last and actually work? They aren't fast. They take time. . .a lot of it.
Dang, now things will start to heat up.
So, I've just spend half a day reading through this story and its prequel.
Damn, I love me some actual dark themes.
The sense of ever present dread as a tower is slowly build up, only to be crushed down by reality is delicious.
Hurt my heart more, please!
Looking forward to the next chapter.
Great chapter, can't wait for the next one!
7644357
...masochist detected
Oh Grey Slate, the funny thing about trying to halt progress is that it usually ends with you bring on the wrong side of history. It'll be interesting to see how things play out. Keep goin and stay golden^^
Dose Gray Slate know the Schrödinger's cat theory if so he should take his head out of his bum and see if his dead or not
7645333
The thing is, politicians like Grey Slate care far more about keeping their jobs in the present.
I agree with Loose Leaf and Luna in the assertion that the criminals of nightmare night need to be charged for serious crimes, including disturbing the peace, destruction of private and public property, battery assault, unjustly assaulting an authoritative figure (Luna), and attempted murder. The offenders should be forced to compensate for the property damage and harming of persons. Lucky needs to be jailed for attempted murder, assault, and instigating the riot. If these charges are not pursued, it will be unfair to the victims and innocent bystanders who suffered that night.
As for this:
.................I admit, this is a tricky situation that is hard for me to grasp......................*sigh*
On another note, I do like this Loose Leaf fellow. Interesting character.
...It's been almost a year and no one in the town government is making any real attempt to fix things? Really? It sounds like it's time for Celestia to step in to me. One royal decree and the entire town government and police force will be disbanded and replaced by ponies of her choosing, and with the shit that report turned up there's really no argument against it.
7642509 That's my favorite panel in all of Marvel Comics.
7687532
I think Celestia tries to limit her direct influence as much as possible, in order to let her ponies grew up and to avoid falling into Tyranestia territory.
As for Spike, I suspect it´s a case of Innocently Insensitive: Celestia doesn´t see anything wrong with the non ponies status as un-persons, like our ancestors didn´t see anything wrong with slavery of serfdom.
This needs more updates it's too good to go quiet