Getting Midnight to see Princess Luna was going about as well as I expected it to.
“I do not wish to see the Nightmare.” Midnight folded her legs over her chest and glowered at me. “She is evil. She attempted to slay her sister, and plunge all the world into an eternal night that would eventually have resulted in everything freezing to death. Also, she attempted to have her cultists sacrifice me to her so that she could escape from her prison. I have no interest in seeing such an evil monster.”
I sighed as I rubbed my brow. It was only a matter of time until Luna and Celestia arrived at the library to meet with Midnight. If this was going to work then I needed to try and get her onboard for seeing Luna. But that was easier said than done.
I did my best to speak in a calm and even tone with my many times great grandmother. “It’s really important to both of them that you see Luna. I assure you, Luna isn’t Nightmare Moon anymore. My friends and I cleansed her with the Elements of Harmony. She isn’t evil or trying to bring about eternal night anymore.”
Midnight frowned. “Or she is merely tricking you into thinking she is not evil. She has tricked ponies in the past into doing as she wished. That is part of how Pegasopolis fell, after all. She has the advantage of being able to be patient, for she can enact schemes that could take generations to complete. And I hardly see the difference between Nightmare Moon and Luna, they are one in the same, and always have been. They are but two names for the same pony. She chose to betray her sister and Equestria.”
“She isn’t tricking anypony,” I assured her. “I know her. She’s different now.”
Midnight directed her glower at the floor. “I do not trust her.”
I placed a hoof on her shoulder and smiled. “I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised if you give her a chance. And even if you’re worried Luna might try something, Celestia and I will be there to support you, and you know neither of us would let anything bad happen to you.”
Midnight hummed unhappily. “Or Nightmare Moon might merely wait until the moment is right to strike, steal me away, and sacrifice me for some dark purpose.”
Oh no, Midnight was digging in her hooves, and if there was one thing I had learned since coming to know her was that she could be very stubborn when she chose to be. But before I could figure out how to convince Midnight to see Luna, Spike knocked on the doorframe to the main library.
“Hey Twilight, mind if I talk to you about something real quick?” Spike asked.
“Sure.” I turned back to Midnight. “Just wait here for one minute.”
Midnight let out an overly dramatic sigh that made me wonder if she was getting an early start on being a teenager. “Very well.”
Spike and I went to the kitchen to talk, and Spike jumped right into what he wanted to talk about. “Celestia and Luna are almost here. I just saw the flying our direction.”
I groaned as I rubbed my brow. “Ugh, perfect, just perfect.”
Spike raised an eyebrow. “I’m guessing the talk with Midnight hasn’t been going very well?”
“No, no it hasn’t,” I admitted. “Big surprise, she’s holding a grudge from when she was kidnapped and nearly sacrificed. Just telling Midnight that Luna’s different now isn’t working.”
Spike rubbed his chin. “Maybe she just needs to meet Luna to see that she isn’t the boogiemare anymore.”
I started pacing about the kitchen as my heartbeat started going faster. “That’s what I’m hoping for, but first I need to convince Midnight to give Luna a chance. I can drag Midnight into a meeting with Luna, but that isn’t going to accomplish anything unless Midnight’s at least willing to consider the idea that Luna isn’t evil anymore.”
“Midnight can be pretty stubborn,” Spike agreed. “She kept calling you a false alicorn until Celestia said otherwise.”
“Yes, I remember,” I groused. Though my ears perked as I thought of something. “Maybe Celestia would be able to put Midnight in the right frame of mind. Midnight trusts her, and all we need to do is give Luna a big enough opening to prove that she has good intentions now. From there everything should work out.”
Or it could become a huge disaster that would blow Luna’s one chance to make some small atonement for what she did as Nightmare Moon, sending her into a spiral of depression and self-loathing, which could end in one of several unpleasant ways. Such as Luna thinking she could never really change and go back to being evil! Not to mention how this meeting could change the timeline and several of Midnight’s actions in the past, resulting in the present never even happening!
“Um, Twilight? Are you okay there?” Spike was frowning up at me in the way he usually did when he was concerned I had stayed up a little too long studying.
A chuckle burst from within me. “Of course! Why wouldn’t I be okay? We’re just trying to arrange a meeting between two ponies with an extremely complicated and difficult relationship that could have a profound effect on the timeline.”
Spike’s frown didn’t go anywhere as her stared at me. “Probably because you’re nervous about the stuff you just said.”
I reviewed what I had just said and groaned. “Okay, yes, I’m a bit stressed right now, but I have good reasons to be! Celestia and Luna really want this to work out, and I’m just not sure Midnight will want any part of this.”
Spike placed a claw on my shoulder and guided me towards the door. “How about you just explain this to Celestia, and see if she can talk Midnight into cooperating?”
I let out a long breath. “It’s as good as any plan right now. Mind watching over Midnight while I talk to Celestia and Luna?”
Spike smiled. “Sure thing. Maybe I can distract her with some cooking to buy you some time.”
“Sound good to me.” Hopefully Celestia would have the key to pulling this together. Only one way to find out.
I left Spike with Midnight and waited outside for the Royal Sisters to arrive. It wasn’t long before both of them landed in front of the library with their guard escort. I fought the instinctive reaction to bow for them. Old habits die hard. Instead I smiled and met them with a friendly greeting. “Hello. Welcome back to Ponyville.”
Celestia returned with her own smile. “Hello, Twilight.”
But while Celestia seemed relaxed and normal, her sister wasn’t as quick to return my greeting. She was stiff as she glanced about, probably to see if Midnight was around. “Greetings. Thank you for hosting us in your home.”
“You’re welcome,” I said, trying to break the ice a bit. “It’s always nice when you get to visit me.”
“We have never had reason to complain about your hospitality yet.” Luna’s eyes flicked between the windows of the library. “I am to assume that ... young Midnight is inside?”
Oh dear, here we go. “She is. Though if you don’t mind, Luna, I’d like to talk with Celestia for a minute.”
“What about?” Luna asked.
“Just about a couple minor things,” I said perhaps a bit too quickly. “It shouldn’t take too long, probably. We’ll see.”
Celestia and I stepped to the side, and once we were out of immediate earshot Celestia sighed and her ears wilted. “Midnight doesn’t want to see Luna, does she?”
I grimaced. It seemed Celestia knew me and Midnight well enough to guess what I wanted to talk with her about. “She’s ... not keen on the idea, no. I’ve tried to talk her into it, but you know their history.”
“So I do.” Celestia glanced her sister’s way. “But this is extremely important for Luna. She’s unlikely to ever get another opportunity like this again.”
I rubbed the bridge of my muzzle. “I know, I know, but you know how stubborn Midnight can be once she digs in her heels about something.”
“That is true,” Celestia said. “Her mother often complained about it whenever it happened, and that’s not even getting into when she got older. There are a couple stories I can tell you after we’ve dealt with all of this.”
I was always curious to hear one of Celestia’s stories, but now wasn't the time for them. “I was hoping you could talk with Midnight. You’ve spent the most time with her, so if anypony here knows how to talk to her it’s you.”
“It’s worth a shot,” Celestia agreed. “Can I go ahead and speak with her inside? I can tell Luna that I just need a couple minutes with Midnight to help prepare her for their meeting.”
I nodded. “Yep, she’s just—” I stopped speaking when I saw Spike running out of the library.
Spike skidded to a halt in front of me and Celestia and had to take a moment to catch his breath. “Twilight! Midnight’s—” His head snapped Celestia’s direction, and an all too strained smile stretched over his face. “Could we have a moment, Twilight? There’s a little, um, something I need to talk with you about. Like, right now, if you can.”
Oh no, what went wrong this time?
Celestia arched an eyebrow, and a giggle escaped my lips as I pulled Spike aside. “If you’ll just give me one minute...” I put up a privacy spell once we stepped away from Celestia and then turned my full attention to Spike. “What happened?!”
“Midnight ran away!” Spike fiddled with his claws. “One moment she was there, and then she was gone. She must have used an invisibility spell or something.”
I pressed my hoof to my face. I took my eyes off Midnight for five minutes... “I really don’t need this right now.” I took a deep breath to steady myself and then canceled out the privacy spell to address Celestia. “Excuse me, just got a little something to take care of.”
I took a lock of Midnight’s mane I’d taken when she’d been asleep. Okay, yes, that sounds a bit creepy, but I had perfectly legitimate reasons for getting a lock of her mane. Midnight kept trying to get into the library to read its books, and I needed a focus to keep track of where she was. Besides, it was coming into use right then as I cast a tracking spell with the lock of hair and then cast a teleportation spell.
I teleported onto another Ponyville street, and not immediately seeing Midnight, I cast a see invisibility spell. I pierced the illusion Midnight had cast over herself, and I saw that she was attempting to sneak past me. She stopped in her tracks when she saw that she had been caught and the sneaky little filly sighed.
“I see I failed to anticipate that you would steal some of my hair for a tracking spell. A foolish error I will not repeat.” Midnight cocked her head to the side as looked at the lock her mane I was holding. “Also, I must learn the spell you used to teleport without any intervening medium.”
I rubbed my brow as I tried not to think about how teaching Midnight how to teleport would be a bad idea for several reasons. “Midnight, running away isn't going to fix anything.”
Midnight met my eyes with an unwavering frown. “It will prevent the Nightmare from subjecting me to unspeakable tortures. Though she will doubtless resume her nightly torments in my dreams, she will only be able to harm my spirit so long as I keep myself from her grasp. I need not fear having her dark servants strap me to a table, sharpening knives and debating whether they should draw out my entrails to take an augury ere they slit my throat to do their dark mistress's foul bidding.”
“I told you, she's not going to do any of that! She's—” I was interrupted by the pop of another teleport spell.
Princess Celestia looked between us and then raised an eyebrow. “I take it Midnight decided to take a little walk?”
I grimaced, not quite being able to look her in the eye. “It's a bit obvious, isn't it?”
“I'm over a thousand years old,” Celestia said with a hint of mirth to her tone. “It takes a lot to really surprise me.” She turned to face Midnight, who bowed dutifully before the princess.”
“I have no wish to be murdered by the Nightmare,” Midnight said. “Can you banish her back to her prison, or better yet, destroy her once and for all with the fire and fury of the sun so that all of Equestria need not be threatened by her, and especially myself? I would like that.”
Celestia’s face briefly became an unreadable mask before an easy smile slowly showed on her lips. “Nothing like that will be necessary, for a great deal has changed since the past. My sister no longer wishes to harm you, or anypony else. The Elements of Harmony have cured her of her madness, and she has retaken her place by my side. You no longer need to fear her, trust me.”
Midnight frowned as she considered Celestia’s words. “I have heard talk of these Elements, but I do not believe they can turn a being like the Nightmare into something she is not. She is evil, and should be dealt with as any evil should be.”
As I feared, Midnight was really digging in her hooves on this. We had been going through similar arguments right up to Celestia and Luna arriving in Ponyville, and it didn’t look like she was going to be moved anytime soon. Still, I hoped Celestia might be able to convince Midnight to give Luna a chance.
Celestia took a deep breath and wrapped a wing around Midnight as she spoke gently. “You never got to know Luna as I did before she fell into darkness. She was once one of Equestria's greatest champions, and now she is again. She wants to atone for what she did in the past, and especially for what happened to you back then.”
Midnight’s ear twitched. “It seems unwise to offer trust to one who would betray her own sister. I am sure you once believed her to be a good and noble mare who would never turn against you, but then she did.”
The corner of Celestia’s mouth twitched. “That is true, but we must also know when to forgive those who have hurt us, particularly when they honestly want to make amends for the past. Luna feels a lot of regret for what she did during her madness, and she now wants to correct the wrongs she did. At the very least she wants to apologize to you for her actions as Nightmare Moon.”
Midnight’s crossed her forelegs over her chest. “E'en if this is not some artifice where she attempts to play you for a fool, and I find that far more likely than what you claim, I do not see why I should care for her desires. She is a monster. Her misery should be a cause for celebration.”
Celestia momentarily grimaced before she quickly covered it up, returning her face and tone to its usual serenity. “”And what if I said it was really important to me for you to meet her?”
That question caused Midnight to pause. “Your judgement might be compromised when it comes to your sister. Mother always said you were too quick to offer unearned forgiveness.”
“And if memory serves, there was more than once when I forgave your mother for one misdeed or another, when many told me to cast her aside for one act or another,” Celestia countered.
Midnight shook her head. “But that is different. The ones who said that were ignorant small-minded fools who did not realize that Mother was right. The Nightmare is a murderous monster who sought to slit my throat to fuel her own dark return so that she might kill my mother, Shadow, and you, then mount your heads upon the walls of Canterlot as a gruesome reminder of her terrible power ere she plunged all the world into eternal darkness. These situations are not comparable.”
“And what if you are wrong and my sister has changed?”
Midnight huffed. “I see no evidence that would persuade me of that. Nor does any personal change she might have undergone erase her past crimes.”
“And that is because you haven't met my sister yet,” Celestia said. “You would change your opinion if you gave her a chance.”
Midnight narrowed her eyes as she stared up at Celestia. “Let us consider the matter logically, then. If I am wrong, the Nightmare will be sad that one of her countless victims refused to offer her unearned forgiveness. If you are wrong, I shall be brutally murdered after being subjected to vicious and extended torture.” She nodded to herself. “I believe my course to be wiser, as it carries far less risk than yours.”
Celestia rubbed her brow. “You truly are your mother's daughter.”
For the first time for the conversation, the barest smile showed on Midnight’s face. “Yes.”
Celestia let out a huff. “Very well. Your mother served as my grand vizier for many years, and I have a great deal of experience with knowing how to deal with her.” She stood straighter as she addressed Midnight formally. “What do you want in exchange to meet with my sister?”
That made Midnight pause. “This will be a closely supervised meeting, where you stand ready to strike down your sister the instant she moves against me?”
Celestia nodded. “I promise, she will not harm you in any way. You have my word on that.”
Midnight pressed her lips together before she looked to the library. “I wish for books on spellcasting arts contemporary to this time. I have been repeatedly denied them.”
A couple seconds passed before Celestia said, “You may have one.”
My eyes widened as I could hardly believe what I was hearing. “What?! But-but-but-but, the timeline!”
Celestia held up a hoof to me as she gave Midnight most of her attention. “It’ll work out. Trust me, Twilight.”
Midnight blinked owlishly. “Two. And I get to choose them.”
“And you will give my sister a fair chance to plead her case?” Celestia pressed.
Midnight stared up at Celestia, no doubt considering how this deal could be turned against her. “We have a bargain then.”
I groaned and applied my hoof to my face. “What have we done?”
I tried not to panic as we escorted Midnight back to the library. Celestia had to have a plan, she always did. I mean, she wouldn’t risk all of time and space just so Luna could talk to Midnight, right? I really wanted to lie down, close the blinds, and settle in with a good book while ignoring the troubles of the world right then. But that wasn’t going to fix anything. At least Midnight seemed open to talking to Luna now. That was ... something at least.
For her part, Midnight seemed more concerned with the rewards of her deal with Celestia than anything else as we walked. “I wonder which books would be wisest to procure? Advances in evocation theory offer a number of immediate applications, but would perhaps not offer as many options for long-term development. Unless somepony uncovered a way to apply it in ways I have not anticipated. Or perhaps thaumaturgy could be used to...”
Wanting some assurance Celestia knew what she was doing, I whispered to her. “You realize you're potentially creating a time paradox, right?”
“Don’t worry, I have a plan, Twilight.” Celestia smiled with a mischievous glint in her eye. Yeah, she was up to something alright. That was probably good. Probably.
Midnight frowned as we neared the library and her steps slowed. “I sense the Nightmare.”
Celestia wrapped a wing around her. “It’ll be okay, Midnight. We’re here.”
Midnight hesitated before letting us lead her into the library.
Luna was in the middle of pacing around the library when we entered. She stopped at the sight of us and stiffened at the sight of Midnight.
I stepped forward and put on the friendliest smile I could. “Princess Luna, this is Midnight. Midnight, this is Princess Luna. Though I guess you both sort of know each other already. Eh-heh-heh-heh...” Yes, good work at trying not to make this awkward, Twilight...
Midnight glowered at Luna. “Yes. I remember her well.”
Luna seemed rooted in place as she faced the little pony whom she had tormented centuries ago as Nightmare Moon. “Hello, Midnight.”
“Nightmare Moon.”
Luna flinched slightly at her old title. “Perhaps this was a mistake.”
She looked to the door, but her sister shook her head. “Go ahead, Luna. Please, this is important.”
Luna took a deep breath before continuing. “I am sorry for what you suffered, Midnight. A great deal happened to you while I was Nightmare Moon, and I am sorry for that.”
Midnight’s eyes narrowed and venom started lacing her words. “Thou art sorry for what happened to me? I see. A genuine apology might have taken ownership of thy past bad acts rather than seeking to distance thyself from them. Thou art sorry for what happened, yet do not actually apologize for any specific actions. What next? Will thou say that I am sorry I feel wounded? That mistakes were made, without stating who made the mistakes? Some other false apology that seeks to place upon an unnamed other, or imply that I am at fault for not allowing thee to murder me?”
Luna winced. “What can I say that would make a difference? That my past is not my today? Midnight ... what I infli—what she inflicted upon you was unforgivable. I would never do what the Nightmare did to you or anypony else, and the fact that some facet of me would have horrifies me.”
Midnight snorted incredulously. “You deny that you did these things? This is no apology at all, Nightmare Moon. This is a farce. I was a fool to indulge this madness.”
“Midnight, please,” Celestia said with a gentle voice. “She's trying to make amends.”
Midnight refused to look at either of them. “I see no indication of that. I thought you wiser than this, Your Majesty. Pity Mother is no longer present to advise you, for it seems that in her absence your wisdom has suffered. How can she e’en pretend to be making amends when she denies any responsibility for the crimes she committed?”
Celestia stiffened and her tone became more firm. “You’re not even giving her a chance. The situation is more complicated than you’re allowing for.”
Luna took a step towards Midnight before stopping herself up short. “What can I say to undo the pain inflicted by somepony who no longer exists?! Nightmare Moon is dead. The Elements of Harmony saw to that, and spared my life as well. I am no longer that mare anymore, but I am sorry for the pain I brought you.”
Midnight’s head snapped towards her with a baleful glare. “If only you did not exist, Nightmare Moon. I and all the rest of the world would be much happier were that so.” Luna flinched as though slapped, and Midnight started stomping towards the door.
“Midnight, please,” I called out to her to try and make her stop. “Give her a chance.”
Midnight stopped at the door and shot Luna with another hateful glare. “If Nightmare Moon is dead, then bring me her skull.” When nopony could think of a good answer to that demand, she continued. “Thou art Nightmare Moon, and thou shalt e'er be her. Do not insult me by denying it. If thou wouldst have my forgiveness, then gain it in the manner of old Pegasopolis. I am sure thy sister can provide thee with a suitable blade for the task.”
Luna raised a hoof to try and stop her. “Midnight, please—“
Midnight slammed the door after herself, and Luna slumped down onto a cushion, her head bowed. “Well that is a fine mess I made of that apology.”
Yeah, that could have gone better.
She sure is a pleasant and forgiving little ball of angry, autism-spectrum filly, isn't she?
9955845
She has a certain charm to her.
It boggles my mind that someone can be this spiteful. I realize there are people like that, but still... I'm told it's a good sign that I can't understand this, but the fact remains that I can't understand it.
9955880
That's the fun of storytelling, though - you don't have to understand it, you just have to believe it.
Oof. Poor Luna... old fashioned fillies are harsh!
I hate to say it, but Midnight has a point. While the comics tried the possession angle, the show never really did, with the tantabus episode really pushing that Nightmare Moon came entirely from her. Whoever Luna is now, back then she was Nightmare Moon, so her and everypony else trying to separate the two really does make her sound insincere, especially to one of her victims.
9955972
There's also the Apple Bloom nightmare episode, which implies that ponies can create those kinds of entities through their nightmares, as manifestations of their fears or other parts of themselves that they can't confront. I could easily see Luna feeding her own nightmare with enough power that it managed to break out and take control of her.
9955972
It's also why I really, really don't like the Elements. Everything in the show points towards the conclusion that the Elements brainwashed Nightmare Moon back to being Luna. Along with the fact that it's clear that creatures are conscious in their stone prisons with Discord's admission, it makes the Elements less good and more greater good. Path to heaven paved with evil sorta deal.
The elements are evil being used for good.
9955972
Even the comics that implied possession also implied that Luna invited said possession of her own free will to get the power to surpass her sister. In which case she knowingly made a deal with the devil and was stupid enough to be surprised when it went bad. Either way, Luna's transformation into Nightmare Moon is hard to sympathize with.
9956022
Nothing evil about them. Problem is folks like you who put too much force behind the thought that the mind is sanctified and should not be messed with, even for the good of all.
Nightmare Moon was a world-ending demigod-level disaster. The Elements stopped Nightmare Moon, and instead returned her personality - in whatever capacity - back to how she was before Nightmare Moon became a thing. She is happy, her family is happy, her people are happy, no one is being ravaged under a permanently night sky, the world is safe from Murderous Moon.
There were two options: Kill her, or fix her. She was fixed, saved from her madness, and given back to the world to better herself and better the world. Too many people I see get offended at the mere idea that some mental reconfiguration can be a good thing, and I've seen SOME idiots argue that just shooting the person in the head would be more appropriate than a mindwipe or altered memories or just a reversion to heal their damage. Easy thing to claim when it's not their braincase on the line, just their sanctimonious morality based on what-ifs and never-happeneds.
9956063
It's less that the mind shouldn't be touched. It's that you shouldn't FORCEFULLY CHANGE IT. THAT'S the problem, not that her mind was changed, it's the method that it was changed in. She was forced to change, it wasn't her own will.
Force is the difference between evil or good. Which is good, "The people willingly chose a good man to be president" or "The people were forced to choose a good man to be president". Same result, different paths, and one was paved through evil.
I guess I should put this in a way you would understand. Let's say you're for... Idk Pizza. You love pizza completely even though it's bad for you. You don't care that it's bad for you and you eat it all the time. Now, I come along, see you eating pizza, then snap my fingers. You no longer like pizza. You hate it, you hate yourself for eating that pizza. I've forced you to hate pizza completely and utterly.
That's my problem with the elements, and why I say they're evil. They force harmony and goodness on people who don't want it, then wash their minds to make them think they wanted it from the beginning.
EDIT: I find Discord's redemption FAR more good than Luna's. Discord chose to become something else, Nightmare Moon didn't.
EDIT2: And I've just realized I'm not going to convince you since you think "reconfiguration can be a good thing". You don't need to reply, we aren't going to get anywhere with this conversation.
9956032
There's also the thing of that we don't know the specifics of how it happened. It could've been simple jealousy, or it could've been something far worse happening to Luna that caused her to resent the world. It could be anything from ponies ignoring Luna, to them outright denying her right to rule and calling her a monster from the start.
There could be a good reason, or there could be a bad reason. The thing is we don't know the exact reason because it's told as a fairy tale, and problems/solutions are exaggerated in order to make the 'good guy' sound better and the 'bad guy' sound worse.
9956017
That still makes Nightmare Moon a creation of her own mind.
9956063
The problem is personality alteration is a slippery slope. It's one thing to reset someone who's had a psychotic break back to sanity, which is one way you could look at Luna's situation. It's just that once you see how successful doing it to Luna was, you might start thinking about maybe 'fixing' a few other problem villains like that...
Now I doubt Celestia or Twilight would fall into that trap(maybe on Twi. There's still that concerning ambiguity about what 'reform spells actually do...), but we know some in show that have, even if their methods were a sledgehammer to the Elements scalpal(Starlight). Even in the Winningverse I could see Sunbeam doing something like that, especially Empress Sunbeam from the AU.
In any case, my point is that the majority of canon points to NM being a product of Luna falling to her darkside, which makes NM's actions her actions. Even if it was posession, Luna's actions still created NM which still makes her responsible for what NM did. And yes there is a bit of muddying things with Midnight that NM was working through an avatar, but even Luna isn't denying that it was still NM pulling the strings. What she is seemingly denying through referring to herself as seperate from NM is that she's still responsible for her actions as NM.
Or more simply put, from Midnight's viewpoint at the least, it sounds like she's apologizing for somone else's actions instead of her own, thus denying actual responsibility for them.
Oh, now you think of that? Midnight meeting Luna at all will change the past!
As much as I love Luna, I have to side with Middy on this one; by claiming that she is not NMM, than Luna has given up any right or authority to apologize for NMM's actions. Not even trying to apologize for specific actions (but just making a blanket "I'm sorry") only makes it worse.
Can’t say I blame her. Though I do blame Celestia for thinking this was a good idea. She had to know Midnight would react poorly and likely hurt Luna in the process.
They should had seen this coming.
P.S: IT'S ALIVE!
9956063
I would say that magically rewriting someone’e mind is pretty similar to killing them. The person they are ceases to be, just that in this case someone different is occupying the body instead of it just being dead.
That said, considering Nightmare Moon was a potentially apocalyptic threat ... well it’s hard to say lethal force wouldn’t be justified.
9956807
What is the Winningverse's official position on the Luna/Nightmare Moon distinction? Was Nightmare Moon really a separate entity that possessed her, as she insists in this story? An entity she made voluntarily made a deal with? Something she created that took over her? Or was it really just her gone mad, and now she's been mind-wiped back to normal?
9957094
Nightmare Moon is just a nickname Luna started using around the same time as her turn to evil.
9957128
Huh. So Midnight's totally right about that, then.
9957128
Wait. In the Winningverse Luna was a chuunibyou?
9956093
also, remember that in the Discord's episode Twilight's first thought was to go find a "Reformation Spell", so it's not like Ponies have a problem with brainwashing.
And yes, I completely agree. If Luna wasn't forcibly possessed, but chose it voluntary, or allowed her jealousy and hatred corrupt her, then using the Elements to "cure" her is really a cop out. It's also basically curing the symptoms without addressing the reasons for Luna's fall.
And as we saw from that episode where Starlight switched their curiemarks, Celestia doesn't seem to have learned anything, and the sisters were at the brink of another falling out.
9957173
Luna...a chuunibyou.
I am currently *dying* from accidental drowning by coffee. At least my keyboard was saved hot caffeinated wrath.
This makes SO much sense. Alicorn level chuunibyou syndrome...this is now my mental canon.
But that said, I still don't understand why it was so important to have her meet Luna. I really can't blame the kid for her reaction, not at all. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but....do you *not* think that Midnight mentioning that "oh hey, mom, MIDNIGHT MOON IS BACK ON THE THRONE IN THE FUTURE, EVEN THOUGH CELESTIA SAYS SHE'S GOOD NOW" won't cause major disruptions in the past?
Cause she will. This child does not believe in tact or filters.
Well...fuck. I would have thought that would have gone over a lot better. Damn T_T
Poor Luna...
Midnight if you are really goign for the blame game then also beride Celestia..thanks to her action or lack there of Luna went NMM and then allowed the Rebellion to happen..oh and your dear mother is also to blame for the rebellion.
Also Midnight..without NMM *YOU* would not exist.
9959206
Middie doesn’t know that last bit yet.
And I think your Winning-verse Celestia blame game is going a tad too far if you’re blaming her for Luna’s fall.
9959312
No..and not just Winniverse version of Celestia. All versions failed in regards to Luna
9959569
Hm, well I don’t necessarily agree. I feel, in general, she’s only to blame in that she is at all fallible.
The only one to blame for Luna’s fall is... whomever the writer decides to blame for it.
9959590
Yes she is this the general blame
9956093
Force is nothing but a level of escalation. It's not inherently good or evil -- it's completely perpendicular.
Reasonable people prefer not to escalate things that far, but sometimes they have no choice (because the outcome at the previous level of escalation is unacceptable) and sometimes someone else escalates and they have to respond in kind. There is no philosophy whatsoever that can exist without some form of force backing it, though, because you can always escalate.
9956225 Are you saying that Celestia put potentially the entire world in jeopardy just to make her sister feel good?
Nooooooo, that's completely out of character for her!
Did Midnight just challenge Luna to juris ungula?
9963496 Yep, would never happen, completely OOC
9963496 Granted, the timeline is already bucked. Midnight now knows A) Time Travel works; B) Another alicorn will arise; C) NMM either reforms, or she is free and has duped Celestia and everypony else into believing she has reformed.
The only way I can see to fix these issues is to mind-wipe Middy, which makes her forgiving Luna and Twilight pushing her to make friends both utterly meaningless.
9963985 Midnight demanded Luna commit ritual suicide, I think.
Humm, Sadluna. Not sure if that is a duel or a suicide, but either way someone is supposed to die -- highly counter intuitive apology system right there since really no one benefits, good thing the honor system is dead.