• Member Since 27th Oct, 2013
  • offline last seen Yesterday

Jay David


Just a guy from Britain who loves MLP.

E

One of the many alternate futures Twilight found herself in during her long quest to thwart Starlight Glimmer was a realm ruled by Nightmare Moon. Having come across the dark alicorn herself, Twilight now journeys with her, under threat, travelling deep into the Everfree Forest to show her the means to travel through time.

During that journey, the fallen princess has more than a few words of wisdom to bestow upon the young mare beside her.

Chapters (1)
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Comments ( 166 )

A very interesting perspective, and an unfortunate truth considering some of the foes Twilight has had to face.

Nice. When I watched The Cutie Re-Mark I wanted Twilight to make some sort of appeal to Luna-in-the-Nightmare... but I suppose by that point in her quest she had stopped seeing the alternate timelines as "real." (Thanks to Zecora, no doubt.) It was well done here, even if Nightmare Moon did channel a little Darth Vader. :raritywink:

6694899 The issue that friendship is more powerful. It did defeat Nightmare Moon and others. Heck it reformed Discord. So in the end Nightmare Moon is partially right.

6694931 "reformed" Discord. That argument fell short during the Tirek fiasco. Also It is not the friendship that is powerful, but it can create power. One creature can only do so much against the combined strenght of a bunch of others.

6694948 actually Discord reform did work to a degree. he valued friendship. Tirek lied to him promising friendship AND freedom Discord thought he could have the best of both.

Nightmare Moon isn't exactly wrong in this regard.

6694962
It is kind of...ironic?...that partially-reformed Discord fell for something that straight up evil Discord wouldn't have. Being good, even in part, often means being vulnerable to the ill intentions of others.

6694994 I have to agree. Friendship is powerful in its own right, Power in the end beats all.

Oh man how can this be marked Completed!?

More please!

Nightmare Moon isn't wrong but neither is Celestia. I like to think of the two (Celestia and Nightmare Moon) as two different extremes. One focuses on individual power and the other on the concept that there is strength in numbers.

Neither one is wrong but at the same time they are also not right as both are equally important. It is good to rely on others as no one can reach there full potential on there own. But if all you do is rely on others then you yourself will never grow properly and if you find yourself in a tough situation without your friends you will essentially make yourself helpless.

While it is good to have, trust and rely on friends, you should never forsake your own potential and abilities.

6695058 exactly. eternal vigilance is the price of freedom.

“Stopped me? Look around you, Twilight! Does it look as if friendship could stop me?”

The correct answer is yes, it could. That Nightmare was still standing doesn't mean she was immune to the Magic of Friendship. It simply means Friendship hadn't stopped her yet. Maybe in that reality she never faced the six separate Bearers, or the Rainbow Power, or anything else Friendship-related.

Would Twilight forget, even now, that power didn't get her anywhere? She had four alicorns' worth of power and couldn't beat Tirek - but Friendship did. Discord treated Celestia and Luna and all Equestria like playthings until Friendship stopped him. Chrysalis took down Celestia herself in single combat and marched her armies through Canterlot, yet it wasn't violence or control or raw power that defeated her.

6695209
On the other hand, Twilight Sparkle, Alicorn of Friendship, couldn't beat Starlight Glimmer in a fight. While Starlight was levitating herself. Starlight had no friends at all.

“Do not speak of that name! It no longer has any meaning for me!”

It is the name of your true self, you've only forgotten it.

6695238
And yet, Twilight did beat her once she used friendship directly. Conversion is the most effective form of victory, after all.

I absolutely LOVE the idea you're bringing here. Nightmare Moon having a different idea on authority than Celestia rather than being evil just because is something I never thought would be brought up in a story(at least the ones I've seen, because i'm barely online)

But when I got it, I WANTED IT LIKE CHOCOLATE.

Instead of simple Good vs Evil we have different genuine viewpoints. Celestia believes in ruling under shared appeal with her subjects while Nightmare Moon believes in the idea of power and control, which both being up great discussion when brought up.

Well done.

THIS. WAS. AMAZING. Best ten minutes I've spent all day:pinkiehappy:

Friendship defeated Nightmare Moon, Queen Chrysalis, Discord, Tirek, and Sunset Shimmer. If I want the world the way I want it (without villains like these), then friendship is the key baby.

Very nice exchange between these two. And it was especially cool seeing how their viewpoints basically clashed with each other like that. But what i really liked was how Nightmare Moon was basically able to take everything Twilight said, and toss it back at her. because sadly, in this universe, Friendship has no key role in how things work. So it may be a bit hard to back up that sort of viewpoint in a world like that.

“Do not speak of that name! It no longer has any meaning for me!”

If that was true, she wouldn't react so intensely.

It's interesting how even as ruler, Luna still doesn't declare herself queen.

“You are my sister’s student indeed.”

Indeed, even reformed, Luna isn't the merciful one. Nightmare Moon of course would be even less.

“Power alone isn’t everything, princess. What of friends?”

Twilight's words has meaning, or 'lonely at the top' wouldn't be a trope.

I never had a single friend in my entire life,

She's lying.

“No…no it doesn’t.”

Looks can be deceiving.



but at the end of the day, what matters is that we are stronger than our foes.

Friendship and teamwork is a strength unto itself.


Reminds me of legend of Zelda, where the triforce of power in legend of zelda... it constantly loses to the triforces of Wisdom and Courage.

“Perhaps…that day is already here.”

I wonder, if Moon Dancer tried and failed to save the world in this reality. I wonder if Celestia had Cadence and SA away from Equestria just to be on the safe side.

6695336
Which just means that Friendship = Friendship, not Friendship = Magic.
6695694
Not exactly. A series of artefacts activated by friendship defeated those villains. I mean, if the artefacts had been designed to work off Crazy Golf you wouldn't say that Crazy Golf = Magic, would you.

And Chrysalis was defeated by love and a powerful shield spell, not friendship.

A interesting insight into what may be Nightmare Moon's philosophy, but sadly flawed as usual of villains in seeing just one side of the coin. Power alone is not enough, friendship alone is not enough. Friendship literally GIVES Twilight her power. Nightmare foolishly thinks because she has not been overthrown YET she never will be. In Equestria Friendship is Magic, and Magic Is Power. Twilight beat Nightmare Moon in cannon because she had power, and she got that power because of her friendships. In the alternate reality there wasn't a friendship strong enough to stop her upon her return, but shared hardships forge friendships, so by ruling with a Iron Hoof Nightmare unknowingly nurtures the power that will defeat her. And Equestria itself is stronger in cannon thanks to friendship, friendship brought Luna back into the fold.

“Stopped me? Look around you, Twilight! Does it look as if friendship could stop me?”

How could it, when the friendship never existed? NMM is using an argument akin to a person in a sealed room declaring there is nothing outside simply because he's never seen outside.

For none would seek to challenge one who is so much greater than themselves

George Washington would beg to differ. As would Ghandi, and Martin Luther, and Martin Luther King, and... need I go on?

And let's not forget in the Biblical example, Lucifer challenged GOD, the entity who created him in the first place!

Again, she's operating in the mentality of a vacuum, with a severely limited POV and imagination.

A long being of great power can be felled by many small forced working together in unity. In such a way does the elephant give way to the tiny army ants.

Hence, why I could not buy into that NMM future. The only way she would secure victory was to kill practically everypony who'd oppose her. The reality of her world would be much as it was portrayed in a little fanfic a few years ago where the Mane 6 peered into alternate universes (based off the "Futurama" episode of identical theme) and spotted a frozen land with NMM sitting on a frigid throne surrounded by an empty land with tears forever frozen on her face.

There's also the fact that the NMM world somehow didn't have Discord... *coughplotamnesiacough*

6695720 That's because poor Twilight was trapped with a Villain With Whom We All Must Agree and was therefore not free to speak anything more than feeble hyperbole.

I would have ranted NMM into a corner, THEN used my overwhelming power to beat her to a pulp.

Reason first, THEN the beatings! :trollestia:

Through power, I have brought order, stability.

Through power, NMM, I could erase all life on the planet. Then everything would indeed be orderly and stable forever... and very, very empty. *smirks* Such as is the lesser case with you, where even the mention of your past causes you to burn with rage and, I suspect, remorse fended off by the thinnest of psychological veils which are pierced in an instant by one single word. You've driven yourself mad in the quest to hide from loss. It's written all over your face, LUNA... as clear as a summer's day in Celestia's sun. *Alondro pushes all the buttons, because he can* :trollestia:

6695304 Is Sombra akin to Emperor Palpatine in this version? :trollestia:

6695098 Alondro walks in and shoots NMM in the face with his Caster Gun and a #3.14159 shell which fires friendship beam magic. Her reign of darkness and pale rickety emo kids ends and Alondro's eternal reign of awesomeness begins.

The End

There ya go! Continuation, just like you wanted! (Moral: Be careful what you wish for, blah blah...) :trollestia:

6694948 Even Goku needs friends to become God.

But Saitama just requires one punch...

*ponders ponderous precepts..*

6695058 Well, it also helped that being partly reformed apparently had the side effect of making Discord stupid...

I mean, falling for Tirek's BS is what I'd expect of stupid people entering the porn industry with the expectation of respect and dignity as a result.

Wanderer D
Moderator

Since it appears all of these are just going to be little snippets and not real stories, I wonder if you shouldn't just compile them all into an anthology instead of posting them as if they were their own thing?

6697505 Well, like i said, it's not as if she were in any position to be able to back up her points, or anything. Especially since she's basically in a world where evil is again triumphant.

That was a great one shot :twilightsmile: Very nicely done love your perspective to this. :pinkiesmile: Nicely done :twilightsmile:

You may believe in the power of friendship, but at the end of the day, what matters is that we are stronger than our foes. Through power, I have brought order, stability. For none would seek to challenge one who is so much greater than themselves.

Peace through Tyranny. Megatron would be proud.

Indeed - for Twilight, if she had to fight any of her foes just by herself, she'd be outclassed. It's a sad reality that those who are evil will always get farther, as they usually disregard the wellbeing of anyone else but their own.

Nightmare Moon's argument basically boils down to a giant pile of 'meh' when I stand back and look at it as a whole. Her entire point is basically surmised as 'Power trumps all', and that's it. Twilight doesn't have anything clever to say in return, there is no debate or interesting discussion, it's just Nightmare Moon standing on her dais and preaching her world view in an incredibly non-clever and unoriginal way.

I think an interesting twist would have been if Twilight mentioned Sombra or Discord's return in the near future and asked her what she plans to do about them, since Equestria's military force didn't seem to be able to stop the former, and it required the Elements of Harmony to stop the latter. Or maybe even mention that her entire 'empire' was built on a single change in a timeline that could just as easily be undone, no matter how much power she has. For a really fun twist of the knife, have Twilight point out that it's one of her lowly guards (Rainbow Dash) that even made her rise to power possible.

It was a great oneshot and a good perspective. Especially with Nightmare seeing the things. And I love how she hardly gets angry. Only over the mention of her former name, Luna, proving her entire change.

Friendship is deferred power. You don't have to hold it all yourself. If you have friends, 10 ponies can provide more power than any single pony could muster herself.

This I like. Very easy to read and brings up some interesting points, and actually fleshes out NMM in a very believable way. Can't say I entirely agree with all the points she brings up, but the way she speaks about her philosophy makes it clear she believes in it so solidly that it makes the points all that more convincing. Excellent work, through and through.


6697505
i.imgur.com/K8o6yNh.jpg

Seriously?! What is wrong with you?! Do you have nothing better to do than roll out some freaky little self-insert RP in the comments of every new featured story? C'mon son! :facehoof:

And that's a like on this story.
I like that nightmare moon could be more in this story, that you can read into her character someone who is self made and overcame adversity.

NMM reasons only ring true because a powerful friendship was dashed before it could bloom. The argument could be said, "Another group could have rose up against them" the counter, "No one expected Nightmare Moon to rise, it was as told to be 'An old Mare's Tale' and with Celestia no way to access EoH she was doomed to fall." As powerful as maybe she once was her power has undoubtedly waned over time due to disuse and unwillingness to harm her sister made her an easy win for NMM.

Though, those are just my thoughts on the matter. In some respect, she isn't wrong. Power allows a person to dictate certain things and enough of it allows them dictate a livelihood. Look at friendship magic for instance, individually each person can influence one another, but enough of the concentrated friendship magic can dictate a livelihood; Luna embraces her darkness, to get back at her sister and force others to see her night, yet, a friendship Orbital laser later and all that power she claimed to have dissipated within seconds.

Discord loved to have a free chaotic life it was his livelihood and that same laser imprisoned him taking away his livelihood, yes, he gets his freedom after agreeing that he would try to reform -Excluding Fluttershy- he was inevitably forced to reform in one way or another or be threatened with petrification.

Screw Tirek, he was just an ass because Daddy didn't love him enough. A friendship laser later and all the power he attained was forcibly removed from him and turning him to the the petty Centaur that he is.

Sunset Shimmer was blasted with lasers and reverted back to her pon-err human form. I can't really count this can I? She was corrupted with power due to her own ambitions and realized too soon she couldn't control it and her darkness consumed her.

You know, I think I completely lost my point... :twilightsheepish: Where was I getting at? Oh yes, to make simple each villain chose their path willingly -well mostly- and then they were forcefully reverted by a concentrated friendship laser due the sheer power.

Hence, why Starlight's reformation is unique she was not forced to see the err of her ways by some giant laser, but through the consequences of her actions and Twilight's friendship lectures. Not to mention her reason's were petty, but she was a foal with no one to tell her otherwise her bitterness festered and twisted her thoughts turning her into the "Cutie Marxist" that we were introduced to.

Okay...that was I lot longer than I wanted. :ajbemused:

Remember, this is just my thoughts and opinions. I am pretty sure others would think otherwise and to that; I welcome it. Different POV's are always interesting and help see things from another angle. :twilightsmile:

6697497

Lucifer challenged GOD, the entity who created him in the first place

Look how well that turned out for him.

If this story does one thing in subtext, it's reveal in the space between the lines that friendship was never what saved the day; the deus ex machina magical friendship jewelry did. So while Nightmare's point may be one made from ignorance, it is not without it's merits, as overwhelming force was how the Mane Six had solved all of their problems in the past.

Whether or not all ot the citizens of Celestia's Equestria could have defeated Nightmare Moon remains to be seen, but you're forgetting psychological factors like fear, submissiveness, and learned helplessness. After seeing Nightmare Moon effortlessly defeat their benevolent ruler of a millennium, how many do you think would be brave enough to stand against her?

And that is why for righteousness to triumph, good must be stronger than evil, and not suffer its existence. ("All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." - Edmund Burke) God defeated Lucifer because Lucifer never stood a chance. And all those examples you just mentioned were victorious because they were stronger than their opponents. The said fact of the matter is that in the war of ideals, power is the deciding factor. Look at North Korea. To quote Bertrand Russel, "War does not determine who is right but who is left."

On another topic, I think you're assuming that the absence of character to wield the dues ex machina magical friendship jewelry would mean all the events in the series that had played out up to that point would have still played out. That's a logical impossibility. To use the example in the 'what if...' story that you're bitching about, consider that Discord broke free because of the contention from the Cutie Mark Crusaders. But if Nightmare Moon returned and froze everything with endless night, then the CMC couldn't have released Discord because they'd be dead.

TL;DR; Power is everything. Just ask Kevin Spacey.

- Christian 'The worst part about this comment is that I made a reference to CoD: Advance Warfare :facehoof:' Harisay

6697497 Don't say that Lucifer challenging God was a biblical example, it's not. Lucifer being god's favored angel and challenging him only to be cast out of heaven and to earth is never mentioned in any of the biblical text cannon or other wise. The most accepted origin of Satan is the fact that he was created to challenge man and test their faith in god because blind faith is meaningless to God. I won't get into a large biblical debate but the only time Satan really challenges God is when he tempts Adam and Eve, when he wants to test Job's faith, when he tries to tempt Christ, and when he comes to rule the world in Revelation.

Hmm such a nebulous word Power. It can mean so many many things. To say "Power" trumps friendship or Friendship trumps power is foolish if you don't have a definition of what each is. Friendship I find is best described as platonic love. Power is probably best describe in this case as the capacity or ability to direct or influence the behavior of others or the course of events. However in this case that is not entirely what Nightmare moon is referring to. She is actually more or less advocating Self-reliance. "I don't need anyone but me." Her actions and motivations however make her statements a lie. Notice she gathered a castle staff and guard corp. Remember the whole reason she became Nightmare Moon was that she felt she wasn't getting enough attention. She wanted the respect and LOVE that her sister was getting. So if the basis for her actions is a desire for love and attention how can you say power is greater then love? Power is means through which we achieve our goals. Friendship/Love is the motivation.

6697558 And where plants can conveniently grow in the dark, to pacify the NMM fanbois. :raritywink:

6697996 The most accepted origin isn't necessarily the correct one.

Nowhere can it be even implied that Satan was created for the purpose of tempting humanity. That came to be from the Catholic Church, the same organization that misinterpreted many texts taken out of context to conclude that an eternal Hell exists and completely made up the concept of purgatory from out of nowhere.

Revelations clears things up a bit more if you take time to read it carefully.

6697933 The point NMM was attempting to make is that NO ONE WOULD EVER CHALLENGE A BEING OF GREATER POWER.

This is demonstrably false.

Whether they win or not is immaterial to the felicity of NMM's claim.

6697933

consider that Discord broke free because of the contention from the Cutie Mark Crusaders.

Which is wrong. Dead wrong.

Now, consider it another way... if their tiny spat was all it took to crack his prison... how would the chaos initiated by eternal night influence the terribly weakened spell binding him, eh?

I swear, the deliberate avoidance of thought required to justify these conclusions people keep reaching is truly incomprehensible to me.

6698354 I have read revelation and the book of Job clears up Satan's origin more than revelation look into it as I said I'm not going to argue biblical fact with you

6698349 Well, she is an alicorn of immense magical power. So she could be using some kind of magic to keep the plant, and such alive:)

6698386 It's also worth keeping in mind it is a world in which the primary energy of measurement seems to be magic, that operates in a manner I feel we'd be quite unfamiliar with. The only region in Equestria that functions like the nature we know on earth seems to be Everfree, and it is a comparatively tiny portion of the country and is considered utterly unnatural by Equestrian standards. So plants growing in the dark could just be summed up with just 'magic', no matter how much of a dissappointing explanation as it is, it is a reason that's used throughout the entire show, and it seems ponies have a firm understanding of it, so much so that I'm sure plants going on living in eternal darkness isn't all that much of a surprise to them. I could be wrong though...wait a minute, I'm a complete idiot, of course I'm wrong! :rainbowlaugh:

This would be interesting if continued...

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