Semipalatinsk (Pt. I) [VII]
i
Twilight sighed.
And then, she sighed again as she illuminated her study with her magic.
“I knew I felt something,” she grumbled, fiddling amongst her disorganized affairs for a lighter. She offered a cigarette to Celestia, who responded wordlessly with a disapproving glare.
“We’ve had company.” Twilight motioned to her horn and by extension the overhanging enchantments.
“Figures,” Celestia said through a yawn, unclipping her regalia and carelessly kicking it into the corner. “Familiar magic streams?”
“Nah, it doesn’t feel like they were here for long enough to leave any.”
“Does this happen often to you, Twilight?”
Twilight shrugged, recalling her initial hostile greeting of the trespasser in her library that had ended up being Celestia herself. “From time to time. For a while now, they’ve been looking to demolish this place to make way for a department store. I made it pretty clear I’m not budging.”
“You’re treading on thin ice there,” Celestia warned. “I’m surprised they do not remove you by force with the justification of some legal nonsense. Worked for me, after all.”
“Mmhm. Well, they tried, but turns out they don’t actually have the deed for this place. I do. After your government fell it was auctioned off to the public.”
Celestia frowned. “Surely that was quite expensive for a struggling freelance journalist?”
“Eh, not really,” Twilight said. “I was sitting on a college fund I never ended up using, and with everypony flocking down to New Canterlot, the demand for property up here was pretty low—especially ancient, derelict property.”
“Huh,” Celestia mused. “Then technically, they have trespassed.”
Twilight snorted. “Yep. I have no idea what they expected to find in a condemned library.”
“Probably some manner of arcane doomsday weapons. They probably left when they realized that—to their certain chagrin—we have absolutely nothing to hide.” Celestia rolled her eye.
Then, she coughed and gingerly fanned at the air with a hoof.
“Uh… sorry.” Twilight instantly snuffed out the freshly-lit cigarette in the gutted carriage of a derelict typewriter. “It’s… um, a stress habit.”
“I’ve heard those are not healthy, Twilight Sparkle.” Celestia pointed at the still smoldering bit of paper, frowning like a stern mother.
“I know, I know…” Twilight blushed and looked away, turning her attention to her desk, and more specifically the golden crown that had been stashed out of view inside a hollowed-out section of the underside.
Celestia had been lingering just beyond the entranceway, but she made her way into the study proper the moment Twilight withdrew the Sunstone.
With her regalia gone, Celestia next stepped out of her hoofguards and carelessly let herself fall onto the sofa.
Not wanting to disturb the tired princess, Twilight drove back her own desire to bombard her with questions regarding their future plans. Instead, she wished Celestia a good night and Celestia wished her the same with a pleasant smile.
However, just as Twilight was making her way to the sorting room, Celestia called after her.
“It has been an eventful evening,” Celestia said, once again hovering in the entranceway and staring straight up at the murky yellow night sky bleeding through the roof’s lantern-light. “And you appear quite in need of a long and uninterrupted rest, but would you be interested in a little magic lesson come dawn?”
Twilight scratched an ear and yawned. Celestia was indeed correct about the tired part. “What… what kind of magic lesson?”
“Involving that.” A mischievous glint flashed in Celestia’s expression as she pointed at the Sunstone without turning her gaze from the sky above.
In a moment, much of Twilight’s exhaustion vanished. Magic lesson involving the Sunstone? Come dawn? Surely Celestia didn’t mean—
“Would you like to try lowering the Moon in the morning, Twilight?”
Silence. Twilight could hardly believe her ears.
“With my help, of course!” Celestia added hastily. “Although I understand if you do not wish to right now.”
“Right now?” Twilight repeated. She was still dumbfounded and shocked, but her intuitive curiosity hardly ever rested even in the presence of confusion and surprise. “What do you mean, right now?”
It seemed as though Celestia was proposing it like an eventuality, despite already having claimed that the Sunstone was a contingency plan and nothing more.
Even Celestia’s attitude seemed strange for a moment—she was quick to give a patient smile, but not before her eyes widened like a young filly being caught stealing candy.
“I simply think it would be a good way of showcasing your skill in this place and time,” Celestia said innocently. “And… perhaps helping an old mare out every once and awhile in the future?”
“Uh… okay.” Twilight was still not entirely convinced. The flash of guilt in Celestia’s face had been too pronounced to simply ignore. And yet at the same time, the thought of actually using the fabled Sunstone… on the very moon itself, no less!
Instead of digging into Celestia’s proposal any further, Twilight nodded and accepted it for what Celestia was claiming it to be. A magic lesson. Nothing more.
When Twilight had made her way back into the sorting room and laid on her bed, she was almost cursing Celestia for giving her something to be so anxious for—how was she expected to fall asleep now?
Nonetheless, her exhaustion seemed even greater than her anxiety, and when she next opened her eyes it was due to something gently prodding her back into wakefulness.
“I am extremely sorry,” Celestia offered as Twilight blinked back into consciousness, before starting in surprise at the sight of the princess looming above her sleeping form, a candle hovering in her magic. “I truly did not wish to wake you so early… but you said you wanted to help me, and I figured...”
“No, no, don’t apologize,” Twilight was on her hooves in a moment, still rubbing sleep out of her eyes. “I’m just… it’s dawn already?”
“Yes. It’s a little past seven.”
“Huh.”
Normally, she’d have risen half-a-dozen times between evening and morning. A full night’s sleep was something her perpetually active mind did not often grant her.
They travelled together to the roof of the library, where the night was already bleeding into day and the sun was waiting patiently some ways below the horizon. Twilight brought the Sunstone to her head, the thing wavering a little in her telekinetic grasp, but Celestia drove her forwards with a patient and encouraging smile and Twilight felt some semblance of confidence return.
“Now, I will handle the Sun,” Celestia said. “Normally I raise the Sun while extending my reach to the Moon at the same time. It can be… tiresome, especially when the Moon... fights back. So this time, I will simply raise the Sun and you can keep your focus on the Moon.”
“Wait… the Sunstone works with raising the Moon? How does that make sense—” Twilight hadn’t even finished the sentence before she remembered what Celestia had told her about Luna and the Sunstone. The small fragment of Luna’s magic still living within. “Uh… never mind.”
Celestia pretended she hadn’t spoken at all. “Are you ready, Twilight?”
“Not really. I don’t get what I’m supposed to do.”
“And I don’t know how I can explain it. It is like explaining levitation. Were you taught step by step how to levitate objects, Twilight?”
“No. I just sort of… felt it. If that makes sense.”
“It does. And if you can believe it, raising and lowering the Sun and Moon is very similar. Just on a cosmic scale. Reach your magic out to the Moon. Feel its reply. Let your instincts do the work, and the Sunstone fill the remaining gaps.” Celestia frowned. “And close your eyes. I find that helps.”
With a deep breath, Twilight obeyed. Her eyes closed. Her horn flared to life and the Sunstone joined her magic stream.
She shot her magic into the empty sky blindly, but the vibrating Sunstone on her head gave it direction. Like in the Catacombs, Twilight focused not on her situation or her magic or the Moon, but simply on invisible and imaginary threads. She could clearly feel her own thread of magic, and the Sunstone’s thread was wreathing around hers. Somewhere, Celestia’s was nearby, but weak and distracted, focused elsewhere. Twilight ignored it.
After a bit of searching, she found another thread of magic in the cosmic expanse. Warm, like Celestia’s, but with a sense of distant coolness as well—like a deep lake with warm beaches but frigid depths.
“I… I think I found it,” Twilight said, breathing heavily.
“Good. Stay focused, Twilight. You’re doing fine.”
She cracked open an eyelid and turned her head slightly. Celestia had already dropped the Sun, and was now watching her with a patient smile.
Still panting, Twilight squeezed her eyes shut again as she let her magic leap the rest of the distance and latch itself onto the overhanging moon. Her horn crackled and sparked violently and she let out a pained yell. She was forcing her eyes closed so tightly that they had begun to tear up. As the Sunstone pulsed, she found herself unable to distinguish where her magic began and ended amidst the streams of the rock on her crown and the other far above her head. Twilight felt as though her entire world had been reduced to this one event, any semblance of past or future now condensed into one sparking spell—
A cold, skeletal wing rested on Twilight’s back. Her focus on casting the spell evaporated and she felt her blood curdle in terror. Without any particular reference point, she knew exactly whose wing was presently resting on her back. It was not thanks to her senses, but rather thanks to some metaphysical awareness of something else’s presence.
“Don’t. You. Dare.”
The icy words were breathlessly cooed into Twilight Sparkle’s ear. She dared not open her eyes, but Nightmare Moon’s voice was unmistakable.
In an instant, Twilight severed her link with the moon. She ripped the Sunstone off of her head and let it clatter onto the stone roof as she kept her eyes squeezed shut.
“Thank you,” Nightmare Moon whispered gently. Twilight felt a cold hoof travel down the length of her horn. “And if you ever touch my moon again, I will use your own horn to gouge out your eyes. Am I clear, Twilight Sparkle?”
Twilight could only nod rapidly.
“Good. I appreciate your understanding.”
With Celestia undoubtedly staring at her in perplexed silence, Twilight dared not offer a reply. As if sensing her thoughts, Nightmare Moon took a step back as if she were about to offer a polite apology.
“Let me guess,” she said. “You’re wondering why I’m not killing you?”
Twilight gave a subtle nod.
Nightmare Moon chuckled—a mirthful one, with the malice that normally grazed her words seemingly abandoned.
“Because I like you. And I respect you. We’re quite similar, you know. Aside from the whole ‘killing my sister’ thing. Hey, perhaps one day we can be friends!”
This time, Twilight did more than nod complacently. She opened her eyes and without giving herself any time to contemplate the decision she gave Nightmare Moon a disapproving and confrontational glare.
Nightmare Moon laughed again. “Ooooh! The chubby little kitten has claws! Y’know, I’m really curious to see how you react when your beloved Princess Celestia is dying and you find out you really can’t save her.”
“She’s your own sister,” Twilight whispered, low enough that Celestia would not hear above the howling wind on the library roof.
Nightmare Moon rolled her eyes. “First of all, so what? Second of all, no she isn’t. I’m not Luna.”
The cold wing was removed roughly. Nightmare Moon seemed… irritated. Not the screaming fury from the catacombs, but instead a sort of passive annoyance, like she was watching approaching stormclouds from a picnic mat.
Twilight closed her eyes expectedly, but nothing came. After several seconds, it became clear that whatever magic or hallucination which brought about their confrontation had already passed. When Twilight opened her eyes again, she had to blink several times to clear her face of sheer terror, before turning around to face Celestia who was peering curiously, looking absolutely oblivious to what had just transpired.
“I can’t.” Twilight sunk her head. “I’m sorry.”
“Are you alright?” Celestia took a step closer. “You look as though you just saw a ghost.”
“I… I’m fine.” Twilight gulped. “I just don’t… I can’t do it.”
Nightmare Moon was dead. Celestia had said so, and history had proven so.
And yet the beast who had twice now crossed through Twilight’s mind as a conscious night terror was hardly mistakable. She had only wished to save Celestia’s life, but in the fleeting moment of doing so she had given Nightmare Moon yet another life to terrorize.
Twilight swallowed again. Celestia could not know. It was a confession Twilight could not even begin to think of expressing—how would Celestia respond to the knowledge that through having her life saved, she had inadvertently allowed her friend to be tormented by some extraphysical demon?
“Are you quite sure?” Celestia cocked her head. “I know fear when I see it.”
“I let you down.” Twilight could hesitate no further, and she instead lied without delay. All she could do to explain her evident fear was to blame it on something else.“Please don’t be angry with me.”
Celestia blinked. Guilt flooded into her frown, and at the very sight Twilight felt a guilty flurry in her own stomach.
“Never.”
Her horn began glowing its regal yellow light, and she gracefully lowered the moon, keeping her head low and her eyes closed, not telegraphing the pain it was certainly causing her.
“I’m sorry, Twilight,” Celestia said. She lifted the discarded crown, evidently taking great care not to touch the Sunstone in the middle, and passed it to Twilight, before slinking back down the steps and into the library without another word.
ii
After Twilight made coffee and instant oatmeal for Celestia and herself, she took their breakfasts back onto the roof. Together, they sat listening to the radio and watching the sun stain the sky red.
The library’s back wall dropped off, becoming cliff. New Canterlot lay far below. On the roof of the library on the edge of a mountain there was hardly any interference, and Twilight could even pick up Ponyville’s radio station with a little effort.
Princess Celestia was, unsurprisingly, the preferred topic of discussion. Never before had Twilight seen so much consistency across the wavelengths.
“...in other news, an interesting update in regards to the unexpected return of Princess Celestia, former ruler of Equestria. We’ve got permission from NCPR to re-air an interview with her from last night. That’s coming after these messages, as well as her initial return speech at the end of the hour—”
Abruptly, Celestia lazily rose a hoof and turned the dial a little, the radio host’s voice first growing distorted and then dissolving into static, before the sound of upbeat jazz came from the radio instead.
“You’re… not curious what they think of you?” Twilight asked.
“Not really.” Celestia shrugged. “I am simply glad to hear that they actually did broadcast our exchange.”
The question had not been without Twilight’s own personal ulterior motives—she’d been explicitly identified by Celestia herself and she had directly rebutted Florina’s points, and now she felt selfishly curious as to how her new position in the center of the infamous Celestia’s life would be seen.
Still, Twilight did not object and listened to the jazzy music without question, munching on her porridge thoughtfully.
“Red sky in the morning,” Celestia mused, pointing with her spoon. “Mariners say that is a signal for an incoming storm.”
“Yeah,” Twilight said. Then, with playful confrontation, she added; “Y’know, the weather stations can say that, too. I thought you were trying not to be a relic, Oh Goddess of the Seven Seas.”
“Glad to see you have inherited your brother’s scathing wit,” Celestia chuckled, although Twilight’s head sunk and her smile vanished at the mention of Shining Armor. Unfortunately, while the conversation was thrust into somberity, Celestia had decided to pull the thread instead of leaving it be.
“What precisely happened between you two?” Celestia asked. “It always troubles me greatly when I see siblings fight.”
Twilight used a sip of coffee to justify a pregnant pause in order to grant herself a moment’s thought.
What had happened between them? It all seemed trivial, but a culmination of so many trivial battles hardly failed to grow into something greater. Combined with Shining’s delicate emotional state following Cadance’s death and Twilight’s own shortcomings in helping him through…
Nothing in particular had happened between them to drive a wedge through their siblinghood, and yet so much had happened between them that it had been shattered without remorse.
“I... guess we just grew distant,” Twilight said. “He always seemed paranoid to me, going on about how I was putting myself in danger. I thought he was exaggerating, but after hearing about what they did to you…”
“Twilight, you must understand that your brother was only trying to protect those he loves. You must consider how much he has lost.”
“Well, he acts like he’s the only one! Cadance was important to me, too! And to you!”
Twilight had spoken in a frustrated half-yell, but as an echoing repeat of Celestia’s delirious pleas in the Catacombs bounced through her head she instantly regretted bringing Cadance up.
“I would like it if you made an effort to reconcile,” Celestia voiced it like an idle comment, but to Twilight it was clearly a firm command. “Trust me when I say you will one day regret not repairing your crumbling relationship while you still could. After what happened with Princess Luna and myself, I hope you take what I am saying very seriously.”
“I will,” Twilight assured.
“Much appreciated. I only wish for the best for the two of you,” Celestia said warmly. “In other news... perhaps we should start considering preparations for my hearing. I know now why they called for my radio interview so swiftly, and it isn’t a mistake I intend to repeat.”
Twilight nodded. It had been on her mind as well—they had been completely on the spot when they had faced off against Florina Harshwhinny, and the petulant young harpy had torn into them appropriately. They had been ill prepared—as though Celestia were counting on her charm alone—and while she had adequately refuted every objection Harshwhinny had launched at them, Twilight knew such a debate would not have ended well for them if Celestia had not cut it off short.
In a formal hearing, they would be slaughtered without proper preparation, and as such they would be fools if they did not do so accordingly.
Fortunately for them, Twilight had no shortage of ideas for sources of support that they could reap for their benefit. In between mouthfuls of porridge, she echoed them to Princess Celestia: the working class would undoubtedly have plenty to tell her, as would those displaced from their rural homes. They could gather testimonies from former members of Celestia’s guard as well as perhaps her maids and her—
“Raven,” Celestia breathed abruptly, interrupting Twilight. “Of course.”
The name seemed familiar, but Twilight could hardly remember from where. Thankfully, Celestia quickly elaborated.
“I told you about her. She was my assistant when I was on my throne, and my—admittedly quite timid—voice during my imprisonment. Last we spoke, she thought I was going to be put to death in a few hours after we parted ways. I would’ve been, had my escape not succeeded.”
“That means she can testify so.” Twilight nodded, jotting the name down into her notebook. “Awesome.”
“Indeed.” Celestia peered at Twilight’s notebook. “Although it would be nice if we could avoid the topic of my imprisonment altogether.”
“Wait, what?” Twilight blinked. “Why would we do that?”
Certainly, it made very little sense to her. Flim Flam Industry’s terrible treatment of her seemed like an ample source of exploitation. It proved that the smiling, happy-go-lucky twins on every cigarette box, electric appliance, or home radio were figureheads of a corporation that had carried out alarming levels of mental violence to an innocent mare.
“I do not want to seem like I am pleading for sympathy,” Celestia said.
Twilight had half a mind to raise an eyebrow and dig into the pathetic justification further—it made no sense, after all, and Celestia’s refusal to provide a proper one seemed rather strange. Indeed, it was the same fleeting millisecond of self-doubt that had flitted through Celestia’s face when Twilight had asked her if Flim Flam Industry had any justifications towards imprisoning her.
Then again, whatever darker justification Celestia had for not mentioning it, Twilight decided she trusted the princess enough to blindly agree that it was better left covered.
Flim Flam Industry would surely wish to leave it buried, and whatever reason Celestia had for denying compensation and shovelling blame, Twilight knew it was mutually beneficial for both of them not to dig it up.
So they wouldn't.
“The ‘working class’ intrigues me as well.” Celestia broke the silence with evident caution. “I would very much like to speak to them. We can call Florina and request permission to do so.”
“And if she says no?”
“Then it would look very poor on Flim Flam Industry. She will not. Besides, she seemed rather reasonable.”
Twilight was not convinced. “You’re putting a lot of faith on the kindness of ponies who betrayed you, Celestia.”
“I have found that treating ponies with compassion and respect makes them act more compassionate and respectable,” Celestia replied. “Perhaps I am a foolish optimist, but I would prefer to be a foolish optimist to a bitter pessimist. Heaven knows I’ve spent too long as the latter.”
With a shrug, Twilight made a mental note to find Florina’s number in the blue pages when she headed back inside.
“Well,” Celestia said, taking a final gulp of her porridge and with a flare of her magic teleported it back towards the makeshift kitchen Twilight had constructed in one of the library’s public bathrooms. “I’d better go make my mane somewhat presentable and get my regalia on. Would you like to accompany me to the industrial district today, Twilight?”
Twilight scratched an ear. The thought of supporting Celestia almost felt like a duty to her at that point, but the factories…
“I’m… not exactly on good terms with most of the management there,” Twilight confessed, her head sinking.
Celestia blinked. “You’re… not on good terms...”
“Yeah. I… may have broken in one night to take chemical samples. I got caught and the result was a sort of ‘we’ll let you off the hook with a fine but only if you don’t publish your findings’ deal.”
Celestia frowned.
“I published my findings anyways.”
Seemingly conflicted between both pride and disappointment, Celestia thankfully did not pursue the matter any further. Twilight was hardly ready to recount the harrowing night she’d spent in a New Canterlot jail amongst drunken vagrants. She’d learned the hard way that Flim Flam Industry were not ones to make idle threats, and it was hardly a lesson she needed a review on.
It certainly did not help matters when Shining Armor had arrived to bail her out. Nor when he had threatened to tell their parents just what kind of mare their estranged daughter was turning into. A ‘petty, bitter little anarchist,’ he’d called her, and truly Twilight did not quite see herself as much more.
Either way, Twilight knew better than to test Flim Flam Industry’s threats again.
“I’m really sorry, Celestia,” Twilight said. “But, like, court orders say I’m not allowed to go there.”
“That’s unfortunate,” Celestia said. “But unpreventable, I suppose. I wish you’d take a little more care of yourself than you do, but that’s in the past. I will be sad not to have you to help, but I also don’t want to put you into a compromising or uncomfortable position.”
Twilight could only nod and thank the stars Celestia trusted her enough not to dig into the unspoken details of her story.
“In the meantime,” Celestia said. “Could you perhaps get a hold of my former assistant, and arrange for a meeting? We don’t have long before this… this hearing, and I’d like to cover all of our bases while we can.”
“Of course,” Twilight said. “Raven, right?”
“Yes, that is her. And... Twilight?”
“Yeah?”
“I know you are suspicious of me,” Celestia said. “Specifically, about my actions during my imprisonment. I realize there are things I’m not telling you. It is my hopes that she will.”
“Am I… am I going to like what I hear?” Twilight gulped.
“No,” Celestia said. “You will not. But I trust you know me well enough that you will understand.”
iii
There were plenty of empty compartments on the train snaking its way into the industrial district outside of New Canterlot, but Celestia had already spent the walk to the station with her thoughts and was already tired of their presence. Speaking with one of her former subjects seemed like a welcome alternative to a long and silent train ride.
And, with the train inbound for the factories, Celestia figured that most ponies riding it would be those commuting to work—the same ponies she was travelling out to talk with anyways.
Indeed, she certainly looked out of place—a towering alicorn in polished regalia amongst grizzled and scruffy stallions and mares toting hardhats and metal lunchboxes. Celestia supposed that her crippled wing and missing eye lessened her projected regality at least a little bit, but nonetheless she was clearly a stranger in strange lands and every pony she passed turned to stare accordingly.
Arriving at a compartment empty save for one other pony, Celestia hesitated for a moment with her hoof hovering over the door’s latch.
One glance at the mare’s cutie mark, and Celestia knew that if there was any existence of good luck, she’d be squandering it to not speak to the mare within. She brought her hoof onto the latch properly, smiling a satisfied and grateful smile and thinking a thankful remark to whatever force was pulling fate’s strings.
Life worked in strange ways sometimes.
Celestia eased the door open.
The earth pony mare was sitting lengthwise along the chair to her left, with several bundles of bills arranged in two separate piles before her and an abacus in the middle of them. She was muttering to herself, lost in thought and calculation.
“That’s eighty for home…” she was saying under her breath. “Twenty for me… eighty for Apple Blo—”
The compartment door creaking on its hinges was enough to silence the mare, and she whipped around in confused surprise.
Her surprise certainly did not evaporate as she beheld the mare standing in the entrance.
“Good morning!” Celestia greeted, smiling. “You do not mind if I sit here, do you?”
Silence.
“I quite like your cutie mark,” Celestia said, pointing at the three red apples. “A proud member of the Apple Family, I presume?”
More stunned silence. The mare blinked, looked to her cutie mark as if for confirmation, and then took a nervous gulp.
“...Woah nelly…” she breathed. “Princess Celestia…”
“You don’t need to call me ‘princess.’”
“Ah reckon I will, if it’s all the same with you.”
Celestia grinned as she sat in front of the mare, who straightened up herself, her attention on the piles of bills instantly dismissed.
“I earnestly appreciate it,” Celestia said. “Some feel I do not deserve that title. Now, forgive me if I am mistaken, but your name is Applejack, am I correct?”
She nodded, looking surprised. “That’s right, Your Highness. I wouldn’t of imagined you would’ve remembered the name of a mare like me.”
“Ridiculous.” Celestia waved a hoof. “The town of Ponyville owes its existence to your grandmother, and its continued survival to her livelihood. ‘Mares like you’ are the backbone of Equestria.”
Applejack muttered a humble thanks, but Celestia was no such fool as to miss the spiteful flare in the mare’s expression—detectable even with a subtle little glance in the direction of the train’s destination.
“Of course…” Celestia said. She had no motivation to be subtle or carry anything out longer than she had to. “...I would be a liar if I said that is the only reason I recognize you. After all, in my mind, Equestria’s fall began the moment your family lost your orchard to Flim and Flam.”
Applejack nodded, gritting her teeth a little at the mere mention of their names, like they produced a foul stench. “Them two-bit cons took my family for all we were worth.”
“I know,” Celestia said. “That was just before the Crystal War. They’d bought it to make bottled cider but ended up cutting down the trees to turn it into a munitions factory instead.” Celestia sunk her head. “On my orders.”
Celestia had been expecting some sharp remark—if there was one thing she’d come to learn from the Apple family, it was that they were prideful, especially to their land—but such a remark did not come.
“Apple Cider doesn’t win wars, after all,” she said. “Those brothers would’a done the same if you didn’t say a thing. ‘Cept they’d do it for their fancy profit opportunities.”
“I am very sorry you lost your farm, Miss Applejack. It was my failure to pay attention to your affairs that gave them grounding as an industry, and not as mere…”
“...Two bit cons,” Applejack finished for her as she trailed off.
“Indeed.”
“With respect, Princess… seems to me like ya would have had bigger fish to fry than dealin’ with an apple orchard.”
“Perhaps,” Celestia said. “But to me, that is a poor justification. A good ruler looks out for their country, a caring ruler looks out for their ponies. I try to be a caring ruler, but sometimes I fail, and ponies like yourself suffer the consequences.”
Applejack was silent, and in the conversation’s lull, Celestia glanced at the piles of bills more curiously. They were divided carefully, as though Applejack were frightened of cross-contamination, and judging by her abacus it seemed as though she was taking great care to be precise.
As much as she considered herself a thoughtful and intelligent mare—especially with the affairs of her ponies—Celestia was quite uncertain what exactly Applejack’s intentions were. She did, however, carry a prediction, but it was hardly one she was hoping was correct.
Still, there was no sense not asking.
“How long have you been working for Flim Flam Industry?” Celestia began.
Applejack grimaced, as though the question caused her physical pain. “Eight years.”
To Celestia, the two words had an accusing tone to them, as though it were in some way her fault. Which, Celestia supposed, it perhaps was.
The more she talked with this mare, the more she came to understand that as much as Applejack respected the lost princess, she by no means liked her.
That was alright, though.
“And this?” Celestia pointed at the piles of bills. “For home, I presume?”
Applejack glanced at the bills, back to Celestia, and nodded. She said nothing further, but Celestia did not need to hear anything else.
This mare’s grandmother had more than likely passed away in the past ten years—Twilight had already made it quite clear how endangered ponies living close to the factories were, and an older mare so accustomed to fresher air would be impacted all the more.
Still, Celestia knew there was another. A younger sister, likely in the middle of her teenage years now.
She’d met them both at the Crystal War memorial.
The more Celestia considered it, the more she realized how much this mare’s situation was an eerie echo of Shining Armor and Twilight Sparkle’s. The older sibling forcing themselves through hell in a fruitless bid to save the younger from danger. In Shining’s case, it was perpetual anger at Celestia and at himself and a job that forced him against both his desires and his former princess, and in this mare’s case it was literal dangerous labour in the factories.
Thankless jobs for both, but at least Applejack seemed to have a somewhat healthy relationship with her sister when compared to Twilight’s borderline hostility at the mere sound of Shining’s voice.
“I am to be put on trial in several days,” Celestia declared abruptly. “My rule is being weighed against the present one. I have praise for some elements of it and a large amount of criticism as well. I am not fond of ponies such as yourself being forced to work jobs that run contrary to their desires, lest they face poverty and starvation. I think all ponies should be both happy and well-fed, and certain groups of ponies should not have to sacrifice their own happiness for that of their ‘superiors,’ and not be remotely acknowledged or rewarded for their efforts while those who do little by comparison are. I suppose I am asking you whether or not I am justified in believing this.”
Applejack frowned. “Normally, I always say hard work is good work, but… if you’re asking whether I’m happy working for Flim Flam Industry, I reckon I’d have to say no. Beyond, the… y’know, personal reasons.”
“Is it dangerous? Unpleasant?”
“Sure, but that ain’t ever much reason to complain,” Applejack said. “But getting paid a couple bits a day for sixteen hours of work ain’t exactly fair, in my mind.”
“Indeed.” Celestia agreed. “My friend calculated the average weekly pay rate as a little over fifteen bits a week. Hardly enough for food.”
“Your friend’s mathematics seem a tad steep,” Applejack motioned at the pile of bills. “This here is three months, and a little over a hun’red bits. And it might as well all be goin’ to my little sis.”
“That’s…” Celestia ran the number through her brain quickly. When it came after a pause of less than a second, she did not bother hiding her disgusted scowl. “That’s only a bit a day! That’s enough for a… a cup of coffee and a sandwich! How in the name of sanity are ponies satisfied with such wages?!”
Applejack snorted rudely—Celestia did not imagine she had much capacity to have reservations for how she acted to authority figures anymore. “Ah reckon it’s ‘cause shit wages are better than none.”
This time, Celestia didn’t so much as flinch. “Sink or swim, essentially?”
Applejack nodded. “I can’t account for anypony ‘sides myself, of course. After we lost the farm, I needed work. And I needed it fast. We moved to Old Canterlot ‘cause living was cheap there, and I started work in the factories.”
“I see,” Celestia said simply. “Life has dealt you a poor hand, Miss Applejack. I aim to correct all of this. You have my word.”
“Ah reckon you should look a little harder than at mares like me if you want to see a poor hand,” Applejack replied shortly.
Celestia cocked her head. “Oh?”
“’course, I bet they won’t be workin’ today,” Applejack said. “With you showin’ up and all, can’t imagine they’d be stupid enough not to let ‘em have a day off. But any other day you’d see little squirts short as a stump workin’ their little hooves to the bone.”
Another bristle of fury.
“Child labour…” Celestia growled. “In my country.”
“Not somethin’ Flim Flam Industry would be proud to boast in newsprint,” Applejack said.
Celestia’s mind had already begun churning wildly and she settled with a grim nod as an answer.
Child labour.
The very thought sickened her more than anything she had thusly seen. She’d willingly take a thousand electrodes to her skull and would be more than happy to admit that the experience was more pleasant than the thought of some young filly or colt working in conditions she wouldn’t have advised for any pony. The thought of a childhood lost to labour in filthy conditions for rubbish pay nearly made her consider simply storming her own castle and declaring herself their Queen or else, peace and her ponies' will be damned. No subtlety or compromise, simply a violent but quick re-seizure of her power.
It was foolish, unethical, and impossible in her current state of weakness, and Celestia hated herself for even considering it.
Flim Flam Industry had reasons behind their actions. Celestia knew they did. And justifications, surely—they’d have plenty of those, too, in the event that she drudged such a truth out for the complacent, public fools to see. They hadn’t forced these fillies and colts to work, after all! They had come on their own accord, excited to enter a world of opportunity! Young ponies without homes were sheltered, those without anything to eat were fed!
She’d seen it before. In the pre-war Crystal Empire, during the growing twilight preceding Sombra’s desire for bloody global conquest, the tiny nation had started to rapidly militarize. It had been a less-than-subtle sign of greater things to come.
But she had never allowed such a thing in her country—ponies worked for themselves and their family and did not give a damn about their wages so long as there was food at the table. In many cases, there were no wages—they performed a duty for their community that they enjoyed doing, and it was its own reward, and the debate began and ended there.
Even when she herself had been faced with quite the same task of rapid militarization when Sombra’s invasion ended its thousand-year-hiatus, she never would have forgiven herself if she’d brought her ponies so low as to force ponies to work, or else suffer starvation and homelessness.
To see such a thing happening not against the backdrop of war as justification, but instead against claims of peace, Celestia had trouble even fully articulating her own disgust.
“I will fix this,” Celestia said, if only to hear it for herself. “I will.”
It was an earnestly expressed promise, but Applejack seemed fairly ambivalent towards it. “Alright.”
With a weary smile and most of her questions answered, Celestia rose and thanked the mare for her time. Then, not wishing to subject anypony to her undesired presence any longer, she left to find an empty compartment and brood in silence over what she had just heard.
iv
Twilight Sparkle was sitting in the same scummy café, idly spinning a circular orb of coffee in her telekinesis, when the bells at the entrance announced somepony’s entrance. She looked up, and a wide smile split across her face as she saw Celestia approaching her table with a polite grin of her own. The princess’s mane was slightly more dishevelled than it had been when she had left for the factories, but she looked quite happy all the same.
“Hello!” Celestia greeted, sitting. Twilight slid a cup of cooling coffee towards her, and she gratefully accepted it. “How are you doing?”
“Can’t complain,” Twilight said. “Actually, y’know what? I definitely can. I talked to Florina, like you asked.”
“Oh?”
“She’s a bitch. She told me what to expect in the hearing; said she’d fax me the proper documents.”
“What in heaven’s name is a fax?”
“Something I couldn’t possibly afford,” Twilight replied. “Thankfully, I remembered the gist of it and wrote it down, and we’ll be getting it through snail-mail in a few days regardless. I’m not sure how much you’re going to like their ‘hearing’, though.”
“It’s a trial organized by a corrupt corporation bent on providing justification to reimprison me, or worse. I wasn’t expecting a surprise party.”
“That’s true.” Twilight couldn’t help but grin, partly thanks to Celestia’s own contagious smile. “Basically, what’s happening is that they’re mounting a full-assault against you and you carry the burden of proving it’s hogwash.”
“That’s almost laughably corrupt,” Celestia said. “My goodness. I’m starting to wonder if Equestria is even worth saving if they are unable to see that.”
“You don’t need to tell me,” Twilight replied. “I’ve been living here, after all.”
Both mares laughed despite themselves and despite the cruel and somber nature of Celestia’s joking remark.
“What about you?” Twilight asked. “How’d it go at the industrial district?”
“Very well,” Celestia said, taking a hearty sip of the coffee. “I answered more questions than I asked, but that is all well by me. Oh, also!”
Celestia dug into her saddlebag and withdrew a fresh-looking polaroid.
“Instant camera,” she mused as she slid the photograph across the table to Twilight. “Interesting device. A journalist took this picture of me with promises of front-page billing.”
One glance at the photograph, and Twilight understood why such a picture would be deserving of a newspaper cover. Princess Celestia was standing proudly with a large group of rugged looking factory workers against a filthy backdrop of industrial machinery. Celestia was in the center of the photograph, a grimy hard-hat on her head and a small smile on her face.
“These ponies… liked me,” Celestia said it like it was an incredible feat. She took the picture back and stuffed it into her saddlebag. “I am still rather amazed by how I was received.”
“You publically called out the ponies who are using them like tools.” Twilight pointed out. “I can’t say I’m surprised. But I sure am thankful.”
“You and me both,” Celestia grinned. “They were all so keen to know what I had planned.”
“What did you tell them?”
“Oh, plenty,” Celestia said. “I spoke about wages and working conditions, and how both are evidently subpar in relation to their own personal interests and living requirements. I also said that accidents should not occur as frequently as they presently do—especially ones that claim lives.”
“Good,” Twilight growled. “Accidents happen, I guess, but I don’t get the impression Flim Flam care much about trying to prevent them if it's not worth their while. Hell, most times they blame them on employee negligence anyways.”
“Indeed,” Celestia said. “I said that in my rally, actually. I have ponies on my side, Twilight. I feel considerably less pathetic, and all it took was a half-hour train ride.”
Twilight giggled. “That’s good to hear.”
“It is,” Celestia agreed, scratching at her mane with a coy smile. “Not to imply I feel pathetic with you, of course. Quite the opposite.”
Twilight’s face redenned in a blush and she took a sip of coffee to disguise it.
“Did you manage to get a hold of…” Celestia began, but she broke off as a bell above the door signalled somepony’s entrance. Both mares turned and watched as an aging snow-white unicorn with a well-kept brown mane and tail entered. She was wearing massive eyeglasses and looked positively out of her element in the Old Canterlot slums, with her eyes locked on the ground as she navigated towards an empty booth.
“Speak of the devil,” Celestia breathed. And then, to the confused looking mare; “Raven!”
Raven perked up at the familiar voice, turning swiftly in Twilight and Celestia’s direction. A wide smile split across her face and she trotted over to them.
For an older mare, Twilight was surprised by how swiftly she moved.
“Princess Celestia!” she exclaimed. Celestia accepted her with an outstretched wing and did not hesitate to give her old friend a quick and delicate hug.
Raven detached, and as her euphoria died down she instead gave Celestia a cold glare.
“You’re the worst,” she chided. “Seriously.”
Celestia chuckled. “I know, I know. I should have said something to you, but I couldn't risk it with the cameras everywhere.”
“I thought you were going to be killed! I saw the firing line and everything! You scheming bitch.”
Twilight blinked in shock, but Celestia let out an uncharacteristically loud laugh, one which Raven promptly broke her stoic frown to echo.
“Seriously though,” Raven said when her laughter tapered off. “When I heard you on the radio… I think my heart stopped for your whole speech. I couldn’t believe it. I’m… I’m so happy you’re alright.”
“Me too,” Celestia replied. “Why don’t you sit, Raven? This is my friend Twilight Sparkle. She’s the one who called you here.”
“‘I’ve heard about you,” she offered a hoof, which Twilight sheepishly shook. “And I heard you on the radio, too. Guess I wasn’t expecting ‘interview’ to translate to ‘reunion’. What paper do you write for, Twilight?”
Twilight scratched an ear shyly. “I’m freelance,” she said, wishing desperately to be anywhere else. She’d grown quite comfortable around Celestia, but now seeing this mare so casually interacting with the former princess, Twilight fully realized how unskilled she was at any level of friendship.
“Oh, okay. My name is Raven. Celestia’s former assistant, and long-time friend. Pleased to meet you.”
For a good while, Celestia and Raven simply chatted. Despite only several weeks having passed, they had hours of stories to share. Raven spoke ponies’ names and Celestia giggled at them merely upon mention, while Twilight had no idea what faces they could possibly correlate to.
Feeling completely isolated as the two friends talked about matters she couldn’t possibly join in on, Twilight instead passed her time stacking sugar cubes. With her attention completely diverted, when Celestia excused herself, Twilight had no idea why.
Although, one glance at Raven’s quickly dissipating mirth, and Twilight knew that whatever reason Celestia had given, it was an excuse to simply get the two of them to talk.
“So, you’re Celestia’s friend?” Raven asked, glancing at Celestia’s tail as she left in the direction of the bathroom.
“Uh… that’s what she calls me,” Twilight blushed.
“Then that’s what you are,” Raven said. “You want me to give you a testimony for her hearing? Specifically regarding her imprisonment, correct?”
“I figured you’d be a reliable source,” Twilight said. “Shouldn’t we… uh, wait until Celestia gets back before discussing—”
“No.” Raven narrowed her eyes. “How much did Celestia tell you about her imprisonment?”
“Enough to convince me that Flim Flam Industry hardly have any justification against her,” Twilight said.
“Then she hasn’t told you enough at all.” Raven let out a long sigh. “Celestia is the most caring and compassionate pony I’ve ever seen, and she is the warmest pony to call a friend, but… her life during her imprisonment is full of… uh, controversy.”
Twilight felt a ripple of fear creep through her. “What do you mean?”
“Did Celestia tell you about her escape attempts?”
“Uh… vaguely. Just that they happened, and they failed.”
“Alright, well…” Raven brought a hoof to her snout and breathed heavily. “Look, let me just preface this by saying that I don’t blame Celestia for anything and I think she was perfectly justified. That being said…”
She trailed off, looked in the direction of the bathroom Celestia had disappeared towards, and then looked into Twilight’s eyes with alarming intensity.
“During her last escape attempt, she ‘failed’ on her own terms. She stopped fleeing because she seriously injured a guard during her escape. When we… when they caught her, she was trying to repair his wounds. They say it was one of the nastiest wounds they’d ever seen. They swore he lost more blood than he’d had in his damn body.
“Celestia herself was a mess, too. They said she kept calling him ‘Luna’ and begging him to get up.”
For a moment, Twilight felt dizzy, as though she was about to pass out. In a desperate bid not to, she quickly grabbed her coffee and took a violently exaggerated drink to try and calm her nerves.
“Did… did he die?” she croaked.
“No,” Raven said. “Thank heavens. For a while though, they told Celestia that he did. A nice bit of demoralization to keep her spirits low. She didn’t have much motivation for escape attempts after that.”
With nothing else to respond with, Twilight nodded grimly.
“I love Celestia,” Raven said. “She is one of my best friends. But during her imprisonment… she was terrifying. On several occasions, she tried to use ponies as… as hostages, in order to escape. On other occasions, she turned violent—I’ve never seen a pony just burn through a magic inhibitor like she did. She was cold, threatening, arrogant, and on rare occurrences, dangerous. And sadly, in her radio broadcasts I see that not a whole lot has really changed. She’s just gotten better at hiding it.”
Raven reached a hoof across the table and placed it onto Twilight’s. It was an awkward gesture in practice, but Twilight understood the comforting motif.
“I’m very happy that she can still find friendship in a pony like you, and I think you deserve it… but don’t get the idea that she’s some sort of saint. If she wouldn’t have hallucinated him as her sister, she would’ve let that stallion die if it meant escaping.”
For a moment, Twilight couldn’t think of what to say.
"When your best defense to third-degree murder is insanity," Raven said. "I'd consider not saying anything at all."
Twilight replied by muttering an incoherent ‘thank you’ to Raven, slapping a few bits onto the table, and then hastily slipping into her winter cloak as she fled from the diner entirely.
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Self-defense laws don't exist? Harming a guard illegally holding you during an escape attempt isn't going to cause tears to drop from very many people's eyes.
Wow Raven... just wow. She wrote Celestia off a long time ago, didn't she? That's just sad.
7258193
The better point is, would you expect a self-defense law to stick in the case of this corrupt hearing?
*insert Undertale's Sans here*
Flim.... Flam.... Do you wanna have a bad time? C:
BAD TIMES O CLOCK :D
But what about self-defense? What about how they purposely tried to kill her? Does that count for nothing?!
7258259
The charges of the hearing are of no consequence in this, because of the corruption. This is merely a public spectacle for her to use as a soapbox, and she thinks that, while her imprisonment will hurt F&F, anything that will confirm her bad rep will prevent her from resuming power with public support. Her messiah complex is requiring her to be the one to fix all of this, rather than merely acting in an advisory role, or even just working for anyone in general to take charge.
7258344
But you still fail to acknowledge the simple fact that, in this very corrupt hearing, what she's done in the process of trying to escape can be completely spun against her and made out to be far worse than it actually is. Who would listen to her advice if the public majority began to view her as a monster? Or a tyrannical criminal? She has no legitimate evidence outside of Raven, and even then, Raven's testimony can be called into question due to how close Raven was to Celestia both before and after F&F illegally imprisoned her.
It would be easy to bring up the whole 'illegal imprisonment' thing, but if they can convince the public majority that what they did was for the good of Equestria, the 'illegal' part will slowly cease to matter as more ponies think that she deserved to be imprisoned. It's funny how flexible the law can be in that regard. It isn't supposed to be, but that's the reality of it.
No matter what happens everybody is going to lose
7258193
What Celestia did would likely be considered a disproportionate response. Most Earthly jurisdictions limit the right to self defence to necessary force and no more, and so I expect Equestria before and after FlimFlam to be the same.
7258379 Much like those cops in Baltimore, eh?
Funny how that works...
Also, I'm still astounded that Equestria, a land that knew peace and harmony for a thousand years, has fallen to the twins so rapidly and became willing to accept EVERYTHING they've done with nary a single organized protest.
Maybe these ponies are actually stupider than humanity! I mean, like, Venezeula-level stupid! (lol socialism)
7258642
Lethal force in reply to permanent imprisonment and torture is not disproportionate.
thank goodness the next chapter is coming soon
7258819
It is if less than lethal force was all that was necessary to escape.
7258379
7258642
She was held in conditions equivalent to torture, with constant threat of execution. Once you get to kidnapping and bodily harm, lethal force IS proportional response. Also, Do you think those guards were armed with foam noodles?
7259067
That completely de-legitimizes self defense, because 'what if' you could have escaped without any force at all. Proportionate response arguments are generally full of shit, but they also hinge on what the person knew at the time.
Celestia was justified in using any level of force at all due mortal peril, unjustly imprisonment, and torture.
7259425
It's not about the underlying reasons for needing self defence or about what if scenarios. It's about the situation at hand and about reasonable expectations to think things through (within any relevant time constraints).
We don't know a lot of the specifics in Celestia's case, but it would be things like if she knows a stunning spell and a lethal spell, and the only difference between them is in whether the target is breathing at the end, then the stun spell would be the only legal option. Or if using physical objects to disable opponents, then it is enough to knock the target unconscious, but if she continued to strike after her target was out of action then it would no longer be self defence.
I have massive doubts about this story honestly. LArgely that the flim flam scene wasa joke....... and likely tyhe result of an icnrasingly unstable set of imtelines.
Also i am immensely skeptical that the ponies could fall for flim and flam........ They would have killed them long before any of this. They were merely sub average unicorns. Defenseless against more powerful ponies.
There just seems to be a abandonment of logic and how evetns would progress here.
7259482 Um, come again? Did you seriously just try to argue that the underlying reasons for self-defense are irrelevant to determining if lethal force was considered excessive? Because those are kind of key factors when it comes to self-defense issues.
The immediate situation is relevant, of course. When you're under threat of nonlethal or lesser degrees of injury, lethal force is generally considered excessive. If someone is threatening to punch you, pulling a gun out and shooting them isn't a proportionate response. When you're under threat of death or severe injury, it generally is accepted as proportionate. If someone is trying to shoot you or beat you with a baseball bat, shooting them is a proportionate response.
However, factors beyond the immediate situation are most definitely not irrelevant. When the person threatening and attacking you is part of a group that has been physically, psychologically, and emotionally torturing you for years while you were unlawfully imprisoned, not only would you be justified in responding with lethal force due to the immediate threat of death and continued severe harm, but you would have an even better case because you've spent years being conditioned to associate those individuals with immediate danger.
Underlying reasons for self-defense can be very important to determining if one's response was justified. Celestia would be justified in using lethal force to avoid death or severe injury regardless of whether she had nonlethal means so long as the lethal means weren't used on someone who no longer posed a danger (such as being unconscious). Using lethal means when the people fighting her have literally spent years training her to recognize them as posing those threats by actually committing acts of that nature on her pretty much removes any question of whether or not lethal attacks are valid. Even if we ignore how questionable the entire "proportional response" argument is to begin with, pretending that anything but the immediate situation is irrelevant is ridiculous.
7258379
You have to remember that Celestia does have one particularly important advantage in this regard, though: objective proof that F&F have explicitly lied to the public regarding her on several prior occasions. First, we've learned over the course of the story that their explanation to the public was that she killed herself. This is blatantly false, as evidenced by her appearances in public after her escape. Second, we've learned that part of their efforts to convince people of her nature as a tyrant included convincing people she didn't really move the sun/moon, and instead used it as a means of control. This is yet another claim that she can objectively proven is false by simply raising and lowering them in clearly abnormal patterns.
So while it's true that she has only one real witness, and that the witness is questionable due to their relationship, she also has a few very clear and effective methods of calling F&F's legitimacy into question. At the very least she can negate most of the damage they can do in that regard through forcing a stalemate by rendering witnesses on either side unreliable. Bringing it up at the trial would be risky, and probably limit any personal retribution she could seek out against them, but it would definitely provide the opportunity to undermine her opponents' credibility and help in her overall campaign.
The plot thickens some more! I really do like Celestia's portrayal in this story, she's got just the right amount of good and bad in her. Twilight proves to be entertaining and just over all well done still. Applejack was a nice addition and I thought what you did with her was sobering while also giving some world building.
Fantastic chapter Norris, I'm really loving how this quirky one shot is expanding.
P.S. Are we going to be seeing any Cyclosa action any time soon?
7259571 When you consider all of this shit that was going on... I mean, Nightmare Moon, Sombra and the Crystal Empire, all of these events took place right back to back in this particular universe. Nightmare Moon was the catalyst for all of these problems to manifest. It was the fight between the two princesses that allowed all of this other stuff to immediately start going wrong, and during it all Flim and Flam came along and promised to make it all better. So, since their current ruler wasn't able to do a whole lot to fix things, ponies instead flocked to those two morons believing things would get better. By the time ponies realized things had went from bad to worse under the leadership of those two, it was far to late: Flim and Flam had their power base stable and had the muscle to keep unruly ponies in line. That's how stuff like this happens.
7259482
I really fail to see why self-defense comes up at all. Celestia is clearly not sane (if not for her physical condition I think she would have just laid waste to everything in fury) and was completely delirious during her escape attempts. A condition that was inflicted upon her by her captors. Celestia's living conditions were beyond appalling even compared to the average citizen in this horrid reality. Stuck in a single, bland room were she only gets paraded out under armed guard twice a day and left to stew in her thoughts, for ten years. It's no surprise depression, anxiety, isolation, guilt, and betrayal ripped apart her mind. One can't act in self-defense when they poses no sense of self. F&F broke Celestia down into nothing more then an animal in a cage, a smart, powerful animal that was their only way of preserving the natural progression of perceived time in their world. I personally am on the side that this Equestria might not be worth saving and Celestia should just go seek a couple decades of secret philological help in some foreign land.
I'm just here for the self defense debate.
7260226 Comment of the century.
7259659
Very soonish, actually.
The next chapter is currently sitting at around 5k and in need of one final section (which involves pirates!)
It shouldn't take much longer than a week. Gonna throw the guesstimate day as Tuesday of next week.
Also the next chapter of this story actually builds a bit more of the worldbuilding of the Discord era, coincidentally.
7259571 I refer you to the justification I already gave you on the first chapter, when you said the exact same thing. All of the problems you mention are addressed without subtlety by the story itself. If you're gonna judge the plausibility of my story, at least actually read it first.
7258210 To play devils advocate...
In Raven's defense
(cause I like Raven)she's amongst the very few that have seen Celestia at her absolute worst—she's seen Celestia full-on furious, when Celestia was already in a state of extreme guilt and emotional anguish. Even if it likely wasn't directed at Raven, I imagine it would still be a pretty traumatizing experience for everyone involved to see an alicorn—even a crippled and weak one who is on your side—throwing a fit, for lack of a better word.7260263
Yes, but this is her (supposed) friend who has literally seen her go through what must have been the absolute worst period of her millenia long life. She knows, perhaps better than any other pony, the kind of crap Celestia has had to deal with. That it's a miracle she's still functional, how anybody else in her position would either be dead, or a raving psychopath, how her actions, no matter how terrible, have always been justified a thousand times over. And yet, she abandoned Celestia. Let herself believe, however little, the Flim/Flam propaganda.
Maybe it was because she just couldn't take seeing Celestia backed into a corner. Maybe it was so she could sleep at night. I don't know, and to be frank, I don't really care. Raven stopped deserving to be called Celestia's friend a long, long time ago. It's fine if you like her, I'm not saying it's wrong to like her; heck, in a way, what she did was a perfectly understandable reaction to what happened. All I am saying is that I am massively disappointed in her.
7259677 Yeah, i don't buy that for a second. What power base? It would be reliant on ponies being stupid enough to follow them indefinitely. Meaning the poneis that they would rely on to keep them at bay, would be the same ponies who would turn on them.
Ponies are not like humans in that regard. They don't take that kinda shit. They have too much empathy for one another. There is just not enough time and not enough ignorance.
7260342 All very true, and I have no objections. I agree that she is likely carrying a lot of guilt for how little she did to help Celestia, which could definitely explain why she's trying to justify her own complacency with F&F to Twilight. I mean hell, imagine it from Twi's perspective—here's a pony who Celestia has spoken nothing but high praise about responding by calling her a violent delusional the moment she turns her back. Twilight's not exactly a social butterfly but she's not stupid enough to miss how much of a dick move that is.
When I say I like Raven I do not mean to claim she holds any high-ground nor that she is even really justified, so I'm not insulted
I just mean she's interesting to write and contemplate.
I suppose what I meant to portray with Raven was that, while she is by no means harbouring any ill-feeling, blame, or abhoration towards Celestia, she is still afraid of her. She says it herself— she thinks Celesia was completely justified, but nonetheless she also maintains that her whole 'calm-white-dove' routine has been broken before, to terrifying results. Considering how much Celestia's been through, of course, Raven should certainly be more understanding, especially since Celestia even maintaining any semblance of sanity is impressive enough, let be the fact that she's still a completely caring and good-natured pony even through great trauma and all the shit still slogging her down.
It's definitely a nasty feeling for Raven to have towards Celestia, but it's not quite a premeditated one and does not (intentionally) lead into any doubt towards Celestia's ability to rule. She more or less represents how the common pony acts towards Celestia—to her face, she's supportive and kind, but it's really a bit of a facade brought on by baseless fear. In that sense, Celestia likely finds ponies like Florina or AJ to be very refreshing by comparison; they don't shy away from honestly informing her how much she screwed up.
TLDR; Raven's actions stem from subconscious, reactionary fear, not premeditated disgust towards Celestia herself.
7260770
The idea that ponies are extremely empathetic, or at least significantly more so than humans, is fanon. It isn't established in canon. In fact, it's kind of repeatedly contradicted by the numerous times that - just like humans - ponies are portrayed as being just as capable of being as cruel, apathetic, and oblivious towards the feelings of others as we are. You're trying to argue that ponies are inherently too empathetic towards one another in an attempt to explain why Flim and Flam - both ponies who have on multiple occasions attempted to cheat others out of their livelihoods for personal gain - wouldn't be able to gather such a power base. You can't argue that ponies are too empathetic to do something when the only reason you're arguing about it in the first place is because of two ponies in the show that have been depicted as lacking empathy for others.
Plenty of characters are outright cruel and antagonistic, such as Sombra, Luna/Nightmare Moon, Spoiled Rich, Suri Polomare, Svengallop, Lightning Dust, Flim & Flam, Sunset Shimmer (pre-reformation), Starlight Glimmer (pre-reformation), Jet Set, Upper Crust, Caballeron (and his henchmen), Wind Rider, the various bullies who gave Fluttershy and Rainbow Dash a hard time in flight school...Never mind the more gruff and antisocial heroic characters like Daring Do, or the ones who are either apathetic (damn near every Manehattan pony we've seen) or too worried/disillusioned about the world and other people to step up until someone else shows them the way first (like Coco Pommel). Heck, "Made in Manehattan" was an episode that basically revolved entirely around the idea of ponies in a big city like Manehattan becoming apathetic and disinterested in others and their plights. The Hooffields and McColts were outright aggressive towards each other. The entire history of Equestria is bound to the tale of its formation, in which the three tribes of ponies were so at odds with each other that they only came together when faced with an overwhelming enemy that fed on the conflict and hatred between them.
Even the Mane 6 - the bearers of the Elements of Harmony - have caused their share of problems by thinking more about their own wants and needs than the feelings of others. The series has never depicted ponies as being some kind of absurdly empathetic species. The series has consistently depicted them as being very human in their behaviors and emotions. So no, claiming that they "have too much empathy" for each other to do something like this is a pretty ridiculous claim to make.
I didn't notice any typos on my first read through. Also my only read through the chapter. This seems very industrializing Britain mixed with old rich American monopolizers. Like Carnegie. Very interesting. Also that nightmare moon thing is annoying. So what happens? Celestia dies and all who try to raise the moon get slaughtered by an insane ghost?
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Proportionate response is not the same thing as minimum possible lethality to achieve a goal.
Wrongful imprisonment, least in a hostage situation should be given leniency. Though it really is dependent on the law. If torture is not illegal then Celestia is in the wrong for trying to escape and prevent more harm to herself. Really kinda fucked up but the law can be weird.
7260263 To be honest, I've been reading your story from the beginning, and while I accepted the premise then, this chapter raises new questions that make it much harder to support the premise. From the beginning, I gathered from this story that Flim and Flam seized power by offering stability and economic growth, an improvement in living standards for Equestrians and to rebuild after the war. It seems like they actually have delivered on the first promise, Equestria is rather stable and not immediately threatened, but this chapter makes it clear they have failed on the second promise.
That's a really key point. Flim and Flam aren't powerful alicorns or ancient rulers, they have no inherent legitimacy to rule Equestria. They've also created a brand new form of government to replace the monarchy, which means they can't lean heavily on hallowed traditions to keep them in power. They rather resemble the CCP in China, in that the only legitimacy they still have in modern times is the continued deliverance of improved living standards for the majority of the population. But this chapter makes it clear that Flim and Flam have not been delivering that. The vast majority of ponies seem much poorer than they were a decade ago, working for a bit a day in factories, and even sending their kids to work as well.
Even if Flim and Flam get gratitude for rebuilding Equestria and try and blame all the problems remaining on Celestia and the wars that wrecked the economy, that is not going to last them a decade. Either Flim and Flam have a base of support that we have seen no evidence of, a majority, or at least large minority of ponies whose living standards have improved under Flim and Flam's rule and thus support their continued leadership, or crippling strikes and protests should have driven them from power years before Celestia escaped. No matter how effective a propaganda machine they have, ponies who feel poorer than they used to blame it on their government and revolt over time. The military doesn't seem to be overly enamored of them either, so I'm having a hard time seeing why Flim and Flam weren't hung from a lamp pole 5 years ago.
Maybe the ponies that have improved living standards just haven't been shown to us yet, and that would change my opinion, but as far as I can tell Applejack and her fellow factory workers are supposed to represent the vast majority of ponies, and they should have risen up long ago.
7269811 Very long comment incoming. My apologies.
They haven't been, and the industry ponies shouldn't be treated as the majority.
I feel it is important to point out how centralized the presented view of Equestria is here. The story is told exclusively through two POVs: Twilight's and Celestia's. Both of them, while certainly the ones the reader should be rooting for, offer a very, very biased representation of events. In this vein, Celestia herself truly knows very little—she's emerged from a subterranean cement room where the only resource she had to judge Equestria by were out-of-context newspaper clippings.
Your criticisms are valid, but to fully answer them would require piles of exposition delivery of information that Celestia realistically should not possess. I'm more interested in telling a compelling story with her emotions and interactions than I am delivering loads of explanation perpetuating just how great my headcanon is or whatever.
Celestia has also only interacted with ponies who drive forwards HER own justifications. Twilight, AJ, Shining, Raven, the industry ponies... with the exception of Harshwhinny she hasn't had the chance to stare her opposition in the face thus far. She hasn't even spoken with Flim and Flam. It's important to consider just how in the dark Celestia has been kept, and intentionally so. Even a master tactician needs some facts before they begin, after all.
And, to answer you queries more directly... the industry workers do not represent the majority of the public. Nor does it suggest any universally poor living conditions. Do you mind pointing me to what led you to believe that, so I may revise it? Anyways, Celly's observations of New Canterlot from the previous chapter sum up what I was sorta trying to show:
Basically, the cities are beautiful. They are prosperous, new, shiny, and colourful. The common ponies—the ones who don't work in the factories, think everything is alright and Flim Flam are hardly going to advertise otherwise. More symbolically, 'the outskirts' are the working ponies while the 'city' is the common population.
Meanwhile, F&F are also seeking to maximize as much of their profit as possible and those who work in the industries in this universe don't really have much choice but to comply with what they're given.
The majority of the ponies who work in the factories are ones with a similar story to AJ, I imagine. They come from family livelihoods that can no longer remain, thanks to the increasing 'corporationalization' of Equestria. However, many service jobs would more or less remain, which are what I imagine the 'common ponies' represent, so they would be oblivious to the corruptness the factories face.
So TLDR, those in the industries—the only ponies Celestia has spoken with thus far—are getting the short-end, but the common-folk in the cities would have things considerably better.
To summarize, I haven't had reason to dig into much of the questions you've raised. I guess my original comment was wrong in that regard and that there are still some unanswered elements, but I wish to do so when the story demands it. I do not want to divert the narrative too intensely from how the events are making Celestia FEEL, because her mental state were the basis of the original one-shot and remain my focus here. As soon as it isn't about the characters, it's not the story I wanted to continue writing.
Long ranting comment all just to say thank you for reading despite your doubts.
7270148 Thank you for responding, and your rather thorough explanation does change my opinion considerably. I'm kicking myself for forgetting rule #1: The narrator is always unreliable, unless they are written as omniscient 3rd person.
This exchange led me to believe Applejack's experience was representative of the majority of ponies in Equstria. Looking back, I should have realized it didn't, but I was operating on two assumptions:
1) In almost every MLP dystopia I've ever read, Appljack is used by the narrator to show the life of the "typical pony" under the regime. I made that assumption here without following along closely, and jumped to conclusions.
2) In an early stage industrializing economy like we have here, manufacturing jobs in factories make up significant portion of all jobs, maybe even a majority. It's normally not until you have a late stage industrialized economy that you have a large portion of the population working in services.
Finally, I want to add that I recognize you are walking a very tricky line, trying to write a believable Flim and Flam as maintaining popularity with a significant portion of Equestria, without either A)Making everyone else carry an idiot ball or B)Making them too sympathetic. I think you're doing a great job.
In any sane court of law, those escape attempts would be given leniency. I know the kangaroo courts won't, but still.
Also, Raven definitely feels like she doesn't want Celestia to win. She basically just chased away Celestia's Number One Assistant with a horror story that anypony who wasn't socially imbalanced would be totally unaffected by. We'll be lucky if the Sunstone isn't found at the bottom of a lake within two hours.
The first generation of the working class, in any country where it is created, are always "those displaced from their rural homes." Later generations are always admixed with formerly-rural elements, until the countryside has no population that can be made surplus. Exploitable labor doesn't spring up from nothing.
Considering how illegal and morally bankrupt the whole affair was, I wouldn't have blamed Celestia in the slightest if she had decided to go Pyramid Head on the entire facility. The fact that she hasn't made plans to kill a lot of people with sunfire despite everything she's gone through speaks highly of her character and self-control.
Frankly, if she loses this "trial", then she should hijack a radio station, tell the country exactly what happened, what she thinks about everything that has happened since her imprisonment and then reveal she's going to GTFO and that anyone who'd like to not live under the bootheels of F&Fs disgusting little corporate empire are perfectly free to come along with her.
It's a big world, after all, and it's not even the first time ponies have fled their homeland for greener pastures.
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To everyone arguing about self-defense and proportionate responses and inhumane confinement...you're kind of missing the point. The law does not authorize you to shoot your way out of jail just because you think you shouldn't be there. Celestia can and will be charged with crimes related to the act of escaping.
Don't believe me? Consider the terrorists down in Guantanamo Bay. They've got essentially the same legal status as Celestia (right down to the torture), and nobody's giving them the benefit of the doubt.
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Fun fact: The TSA has never caught a terrorist. It fails to detect weapons in 95% of tests, while, at the same time, a couple terrorists have smuggled bombs onto planes, and several more have launched successful attacks by simply avoiding airports altogether. By any reasonable metric, the mere existence of the agency is batshit insane. Yet the public tolerates it, even when security checkpoints create long waits and grossly violate civil rights.
Never underestimate what people will put up with. Especially when there's fear involved.
Oh, and @Norris...not sure you if meant it that way, but this story is turning out to be a scathing critique of modern capitalist democracy. And a highly effective one, at that.
7276055 Hi, um, pompous know-it-all? Yeah, hi, uh, we all know she's going to be charged with these crimes. It's incredibly obvious she's going to be charged. That's not what we're talking about. We're debating whether the charges would hold water. Whether they'd be in the right to put her away for that. We all know she's going to be charged with blasting her way out of prison, we've all moved past that. We're busy asking each other whether she had good reason to, and whether the courts will be willing to listen to a plea of self-defence.
We are not the ones 'missing the point', as you put it. You are simply attempting to devalue a debate by stating a fact that we all already know. We're debating whether a door should be opened, and your contribution is to say "Shut up guys, there's a door that might be opened!"
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I don't know why you lumped me in with everyone else since I said it is dependent upon the law. However, it can be argued that Celestia was wrongfully imprisoned since she did not have a trial and was not kept in a jail. The public was lied to about her death. This is less akin to someone being jailed and more akin to a longterm kidnapping, just sponsored by the ruling corporation.
If Northrop Grumman kidnapped President Obama and held him in captivity for years while their puppet politicians got into places of power; it does not mean Obama would be in the wrong to fight his way out if given the opportunity. The guards that could be injured are complacent in the illegal act and therefore considered accessories.
Your terrorists equality doesn't much hold water. Terrorists in Guantanamo Bay are not citizens of the United States, are known enemy combatants, and are listed as dangerous in the global community. Celestia is a citizen of Equestria, she fought for her country (not against it), and is a member of the global leadership (probably highly respected as well in that circle).
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So, how are Greece and Spain doing lately?
Planning to vacation in Venezuela?
Seriously, you people use FICTION to blast capitalism... I can point to actual failing nations to mock socialism. Who's got the more legitimate claim?
Goodness, people. This debate is really starting to snowball and become meanspirited.
Can we go back to talking about Raven?7276179 I'm using an AU to tell a character-driven Drama. Everything else is secondary. If people chose to read social commentary into my writing, or if they chose to conncect a flaw in this fictional magic horse world with our own, that's their own right to do so.
Personally, I find the notion that the only reason I'm writing is to express some personal vendetta against modern capitalism to be somewhat of a misguided one.
You've established that you do not enjoy my story, and you've done so with decent arguments. That's fine, but you also don't have to refute everyone who says they enjoy it. You're a funny guy and you articulate your opinions/arguments very well, but you're really just reiterating yourself by this point, and I'm going to keep writing regardless of whether or not you approve. Sorry, I guess.
7276085 I don't want to sound rude, but if we're going to start namecalling, can we please do so with the PM system?
I'd prefer personal attacks stay on a personal platform, because frankly I don't care to read them.
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Not my specific intention, but I understand that in the process of writing about a dystopian capitalist AU, some parallels to our own world could perhaps be interpreted. I like to think this world is my own creation but certainly it takes inspiration from real problems/historical eras.
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The situation has nothing to do with legal systems. Its a matter of morals since Celestia is leading a revolution against F&F essentaly. She's being tried in order to win herself public favor, not because she believes those bastards= can dole out anything resembling justice. Our argument is whether she's standing on any firm ground when it comes to appealing to the populace as a pure and good leader in light of her actions in captivity.
7276220 You don't sound rude at all. You're attempting to restore order. That's very rarely rude.
As I was not planning on replying to any subsequent messages from the user in question, there shouldn't be much of a problem in refraining from name-calling in the future. I do apologize, and will do my very best not to break this rule while on any of your stories again.
And on the subject of Raven... I think she's conspiring against Celestia / despises Twilight for some hilariously petty reason, because why else would she try to demonize Celestia like that?
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Fun fact, they did not capture her as arbiters of the law. She was being kept being the independent company of F&F, THEN they gained control of the government. Also, violently resisting the conditions she was under wouldn't make it past any court.
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Greece and Spain are both getting screwed by their creditors, which further proves the critique. In Spain's case, the country didn't even run up large public debts...rather, its banks failed (another capitalist issue), and the EU refused to do anything about it (because doing something would harm the interests of German bankers).
As for Venezuela, communist countries are invariably basket cases. Nobody here is disputing that. The critique is about the way money manipulates democratic institutions if left unchecked, not about capitalism in general.
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Have you perhaps considered the distinct possibility that if you're telling nearly everyone involved in the discussion - including those who started the discussion - that they're missing the point of the discussion, it may in fact be you who's missing the point of that discussion?
No one here is claiming that they can't or won't charge Celestia. What people are debating are the morality of her actions, how those charges would stick (both legally and in the court of public opinion), and whether or not she could reasonably justify her actions based on the conditions in which she committed them. Telling us that they technically can charge her for it doesn't invalidate the points being made in the discussion or add anything to it. Furthermore, as I believe another poster pointed out, your comparison with Guantanamo Bay and terrorists is extremely flawed due to the disparity between the two situations. As in "If we can blame the Joker for shooting an innocent civilian in a for-the-lulz home invasion, then we also have to blame Batman in exactly the same way if he accidentally kills a mass murderer while saving an innocent civilian's life" disparity.
The terrorists in Guantanamo Bay are generally recognized as an illegal and dangerous element by the global community, aren't citizens of the United States, have not served (or are not currently serving) as loyal members of the United States Armed Forces, and were already part of groups established as enemies of the state. Celestia was a legal citizen of Equestria (you know, being its sovereign), joined her people on the front lines when facing numerous threats to the state (and the world at large), has presumably been a respected member of the global community for a millennium, and was imprisoned by what essentially amounted to a mob/illegal militia kidnapping her, imprisoning her in a facility designed solely for her containment, and then lying to the entire nation about her death. The two situations aren't remotely similar.
Perhaps most U.S. citizens don't tend to give much thought to what happens to terrorists in Guantanamo Bay, but I'm pretty sure that plenty of people would lose their shit if it was publicly revealed that a supposedly deceased war hero from the U.S. military was not only alive, but had disappeared for years because he/she was illegally imprisoned and tortured by agents of the U.S. government for nothing but the personal gain of his/her jailers.
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I apologize if it came across that way. It honestly wasn't intended to. However, I stand by what I said; arguing about what the courts will or will not do inherently misses the point, because the law is not on her side in this case.
Now, the public might side with Celestia, and she might gain her freedom by appealing to them, but that isn't a legal argument. Trying to apply legal reasoning to the court of public opinion is like trying to win a horse race using the backstroke.