258 - Judging the Wicked
Lex frowned at House Call as the other stallion didn’t immediately rush to carry out his orders. “Why are you hesitating?” he snapped. “Bring him here immediately.”
“I-, alright, but I wanted to tell you that we’ve been treating Miss Garden Gate.” When Lex didn’t immediately snap at him, he took that as permission to continue. “Most of her wounds are fairly superficial. There are one or two that are serious, but nothing life-threatening. A few of them have some mild inflammation, so we’re keeping her under observation in case she develops an infection, but we really need more medicine as soon as possible.”
Lex’s expression didn’t change, but he frowned inwardly, knowing that even the chance that Garden Gate had caught the ghoul’s sickness was too great a risk to be allowed to stand. “As soon as I’m done with Spit Polish, I’ll see to Garden Gate and then go into Vanhoover to find more supplies. Now bring him to me.”
House Call gave a nod of acknowledgment and turned to go, only to glance back at Lex nervously. “I don’t suppose you’d be willing to let me examine your injuri-”
“Go!”
The angry growl sent the medical pony galloping away. House Call had no qualms about getting up in an unruly patient’s face in order to safeguard their health, but that courage only went so far. Besides, the events of last night had made obvious what he’d known for a while now: Lex Legis was a pony to whom the normal rules – whether medical, magical, and probably numerous other areas as well – didn’t apply.
For his part, Lex watched House Call leave, his thoughts already ranging further ahead. First he’d punish Spit Polish and cure Garden Gate of any vestiges of disease, then he’d lead a team into Vanhoover. By the time he got back Sonata should have returned; if she reported that nothing unusual had happened then that would be confirmation enough that it was safe to send other ponies to the surrounding farms to buy more food while those that stayed here could start digging-
“What are you going to do?”
Nosey’s question broke his train of thought, and Lex had to make an effort to quell his annoyance as he looked at her. “I told you, I’m going to gather necessary supplies while-”
“No,” interrupted Nosey with a brief shake of her head. “I mean, what are you going to do to Spit Polish?”
Lex didn’t hesitate a moment before answering. “I’m going to curse him, of course. Even overlooking all of the other criminal actions he allegedly committed before I arrived here, his attempt on my life warrants an exceptionally harsh punishment.” Just thinking of how close that wretched, pathetic excuse for a pony had come to actually killing him – and how badly it had shaken him – was enough to make his eyes glow green and purple with anger. “He’ll serve as an example of what happens-”
“You can’t!” Nosey had heard enough, and it was all she could do to keep from shouting. “Lex, you can’t curse him!”
“Of course I can,” he replied easily. “I have more than enough dark magic to do so, and I doubt he’ll find the strength to resist what I’m going to do to him.”
“No, I mean you shouldn’t curse him!”
Lex’s eyes narrowed dangerously at that, turning his head to give Nosey a dark look. Despite the fact that her current condition warranted greater indulgence on his part, he could feel his patience for her antics starting to wear thin. “What?”
But Nosey didn’t flinch, giving him a worried look. “If you curse him, you’ll ruin all the goodwill you’ve gained up until now! It’ll be like with Garden Gate all over again!”
Lex couldn’t help but wince at that. The memory of Sonata telling him that his cursing that mare had frightened everypony else, when he’d been so sure that his display of justice had evoked the opposite reaction, still mortified him to think about. That was compounded by what he’d realized last night, when Garden Gate had selflessly thrown herself at the ghoul army, crying out for the people she’d lost and proving that the change of heart she’d professed when he’d sentenced her had been genuine after all…which had been another misjudgment on his part, since he’d discounted her plea as insincere when he’d condemned her. But rather than weaken his resolve, having that thrown in his face only made him grit his teeth, pushing back against the perceived indictment of his judgment. “I wasn’t wrong,” he hissed.
“Lex…”
“I wasn’t wrong! Garden Gate was directly responsible for Pillowcase’s death! Even if she felt bad about it at the time, her sentence was entirely justified!”
“But it scared everypony! Lex, please! If you forgive Spit Polish now, you’ll show everyone-”
“‘Forgive him’?! Are you mad?!” Lex separated himself from her then, somehow managing to keep his hooves under him as he moved so that he was face-to-face with Nosey, rather than right next to her. “He didn’t make some minor breach of social decorum, he tried to commit murder! A punishment of extreme severity is not only appropriate, it’s absolutely necessary!”
Nosey blanched, whether because he’d broken off physical contact with her or because of the forcefulness of his words. But despite how pale she suddenly looked she didn’t back down, giving him a pleading look as she kept going. “Look, maybe you’re right, but it wasn’t like he just decided that it’d be fun to try and kill you! He was scared, and Xi-, that monster had been messing with his head, telling him all sorts of stuff about how they had to do terrible things to save Equestria! He thought he was helping-”
But Lex cut her off. “By trying to smother me in my sleep? No. He knew what he was doing-”
“No, he didn’t! Don’t you get it?! He didn’t know what he was doing! That’s what I’m-” Nosey abruptly stopped speaking, lowering her head and taking several deep breaths, and it was then that Lex realized that she was shaking. He had just enough time to convince himself that he had nothing to feel guilty about when she lifted her face, making a sound that was suspiciously like a sniffle before she started speaking again, calmer now. “Alright. He knew what he was doing,” she said slowly, as though not trusting herself to stay calm if she spoke any faster. “But he didn’t know it was wrong-, no, he didn’t know why it was wrong. Xi-,” she faltered then, but drew herself up as she forced herself to keep going. “Xiriel got in his head. It didn’t possess him or anything, but it…it confused him. It made him think that he had to do evil to do good.” She paused then, giving him a look of…some emotion that he couldn’t identify before she continued. “He was manipulated. He was a victim too. And if you punish him for that, then it makes you look cruel.”
Lex waited a few seconds, just to be sure that she was finished, before he replied. “I. Don’t. Care.” He said each word slowly, wanting to make this as clear as possible. “I don’t care how I look to other people, and I don’t care if Spit Polish was confused when he grabbed the pillow and held it over my face.” He let that hang in the air for a moment before continuing. “His state of mind is an explanation, not an excuse, and he will pay the price for his actions.”
Nosey seemed to crumple in on herself at his words, her ears folding back as she shook her head softly. She licked her lips but didn’t say anything, and a second later turned as though about to walk away. But she didn’t move, simply standing there with her back to him for a long moment. “There’s so much good in you,” she murmured mournfully.
“What?”
She turned back around, and her eyes were watery when she looked at him again. “There’s so much good in you, Lex. You’re strong and you’re brave and you’re selfless. I’ve seen you risk your life for complete strangers and get hurt really badly in the process, and you never expect so much as a thank you for it. You do so much for so many people, and then you go and act like this…” She bit her lip, reaching a hoof up to rub her eyes. “Maybe you’re right. Maybe Spit Polish does deserve whatever you do to him. But Sonata was right too: you shouldn’t hold it against everypony when they fail to live up to your example.”
Lex was about to reply that he wasn’t doing that, but Nosey stepped forward before he could, placing a hoof on his chest. “You have so much good in you, and you think everypony else should have that much good in them too. But they aren’t strong enough for that. They don’t have a heart as dedicated as yours. When something puts them to the test, some disaster or monster or something else, most of them will fail. That’s what happened to Spit Polish. If you punish him now, it won’t be because he did something evil; it’ll be because he was weak. And everypony else will see that, even if they don’t know it, and they’ll wonder why you didn’t have more compassion for a pony who never had a chance.” With nothing else to say, she slowly withdrew her hoof from him, letting it fall back to the ground.
Seconds passed as Lex simply stared at her, turning her words over in his mind, not noticing as his eyes changed back to their normal color. Before he could start to formulate a reply, several ponies stepped forward from the crowd, carrying a struggling stallion between them. But Spit Polish’s thrashing stopped as he caught sight of Lex, his eyes widening and the blood draining from his face as the ponies forcing him forward all but threw him at Lex’s hooves. “No!” he whimpered. “Please, whatever you’re going to do to me, don’t do it!”
The sniveling display drew a sneer of disgust from Lex, and he turned his full attention to the simpering stallion, looking him over. Spit Polish was a mess; his eyes were bloodshot and had dark circles under them, his bandages were handing loosely from around his wounds, and there were several splotches of dirt across his body. Lex sent a disapproving glance at one of the ponies, another doctor, who had carried him over. “Sorry,” murmured the medical pony meekly. “He tried to run away when he saw us coming. Didn’t get very far on those injured hooves of his, but he kept trying anyway.”
Lex’s only response to that was a snort, before looking back at where Spit Polish was lying on the ground. It wasn’t lost on him how everypony else had apparently noticed the spectacle, coming closer to see what was going on. “Spit Polish,” began Lex, pronouncing his name as though just saying it left a foul taste in his mouth. “Given how the nature of your crime has already been made public, there’s no need to reiterate what it is you’re accused of. Nevertheless, I’ll do so now: you attempted to assassinate me in my sleep. Do you deny the charge?”
Lying on his belly in front of Lex, Spit Polish shook like a leaf. “I…I didn’t mean to…”
“Answer yes or no,” growled Lex.
Biting back a sob, Spit Polish shook his head miserably. “…no…”
“Before I pass judgment on you, do you have anything to say in your own defense?”
The prospect of his imminent punishment was the last straw, and Spit Polish began to wail loudly. “I’m sorry!” he sobbed. “Mercy! I didn’t want to do any of those things, I swear! I just-, I thought I had to! To save Equestria!” He turned toward the crowd, hysteria written all over his face. “Please, you have to understand! I’d never would have hurt anypony unless I thought it was for the greater good! But-, but I was wrong! I see that now! I see that now and I’m so, so sorry!” He looked back at Lex as he continued to plead. “So I beg you, mercy! Have mercy on me! I’ll never-”
“ENOUGH!” boomed Lex, making Spit Polish and several nearby ponies jump. “I’ve heard all I need to.” His eyes flickered to Nosey for an instant as he spoke, before returning to the quaking pony at his hooves.
“For your crimes, your punishment shall be…”
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Interesting. Nosey isn't really saying anything that Sonata hasn't said to Lex before, but she's saying it more eloquently.
That's really the key. Almost every pony in the audience would probably have done the same thing if Xiriel had really focused his attentions on them the way he did on Spit Polish. And while the audience may not know Xiriel was a devil, they know he was manipulating Spit Polish. So Spit Polish is who they will identify with, and they'll all think that luck is the only thing standing between them and getting cursed.
Indefinite typos!
..Just playing off the quote
I'm sorry but I don't see it as a mistake. Both Fencer and Spit are guilty of murder to various degrees. Saying sorry doesn't make up for anything, and if Lex were to start a policy of letting off anyone who appears remorseful enough, eventually that would be taken advantage of by someone who would just be looking to escape punishment. Being lenient in cases like this just invites others (I'm looking at YOU Piggy) to think they can get away with crimes of their own if they shed enough fake tears. Spit was caught trying to murder someone. And unlike Fencer, he only seems 'sorry' because his actions are now coming back to bite him at every turn.
a interesting chapter that i like a hole bunch.
nosey makes a good point about Spit Polish and at the same time Lex is right.
hum what would i do if i wear Lex.
a curse that never allows him to forget what he tryed to do.
Lex is winding up for the pitch. Lets see if he going for a Bunt, Homerun, Slide, or beer and Pizza.
The only thing better than 1 Cliffhanger is two Cliffhangers.
Nosey has made her argument for leniency whilst Lex is seemingly sticking to his guns on the matter but the way he glanced at Nosey at the end implies that her words has reached him though whether or not he'll heed them remains unknown. Despite how readers typically react to cliffhangers in other stories, I actually like it here as it still leaves room for theory crafting and debates between those for or against certain actions.
As for Spit Polish, Lex is not wrong in that he tried to commit murder. Regardless of intent or or reasoning, murder is still murder and should be punished accordingly, typically with several decades of incarceration if or even the death penalty. In our world. However, in the context of the story, the ponies never had a case of murder or attempted murder before so they don't have an appropriate punishment.
Death sentence is obviously off the table for Lex given his stance on pony life but if an outsider does threaten his little ponies(still loving this btw), I think he'll make an exception.
Banishment, the crown's seemingly preferred punishment for heinous acts, which murder would undoubtedly be categorized, could be seen as the equivalent of incarceration though if the perpetrator was a pony, they might show leniency in hopes of redeeming them or at least send them to an actual prison though given Equestria's low crime rates, it's doubtful there is a permanent facility for that purpose.
Wonder if Lex would set up a prison, or would it even be required given the way the ponies are? Then again, the ponies of Vanhoover were affected by Xiriel's machinations with Spit Polish and Fencer being prime examples of the demon's intent to corrupt them. Of course, the effect of the corruption is unknown aside from the fact that the camp ponies had raided the nearby farms instead of negotiating for food though this could be attributed to Spit Polish and the other lieutenants carrying out Block Party's orders.
Still, repeat an action long enough and an unthinkable act could become as normal as brushing one's teeth. Hopefully they can be saved from the dark path Xiriel set them on.
As for what Spit's punishment could be, I'm kind of with harts fire in that would partially be a psychological curse like Garden Gate's was. And as Spiritus Arcane noted, Spit Polish's apology feels insincere and more like the desperate pleas from an individual who's trying to escape the sins of his deeds more than anything else and Lex knows it.
9056081 It's no coincidence that Nosey is saying the same thing that Sonata was up until now: she's largely in agreement with her (and, I suspect, most other ponies) about Lex's approach to criminal justice. The real question is whether or not she got through to him. We know that Lex can be brought around to a different way of thinking (heck, Sonata has done it before), but it's never easy and never quick. We've seen him reject this sort of reasoning when Sonata brought it up before...but then again, he initially rejected her protesting him taking over Equestria by overthrowing the princesses with force, too.
9056352 Indefinite typoos!
9056450 The problem here is that we don't really know how the ponies of Equestria would react to murder in the course of the show; simply put, things like that don't happen in Equestria. But we do know that even very harsh crimes are usually readily forgiven when the perpetrator makes a show of genuine remorse. Starlight Glimmer tends to be held up as the poster child for this, since she was forgiven near-instantly by everypony after her time travel spell almost rewrote history into any one of several worse alternatives. Sure, everypony only heard about that after the fact, but even so...Twilight's "sentence" for that (and what she did in her old village) was for Starlight to be her student. That was it. There was no worry about deterring other potential offenders.
The ponies believe that "justice = rehabilitation," in other words. Desert and deterrence don't really seem to play into it. Hence why some clown antics and a speech from the CMC was enough to clear Troubleshoes, one of the few ponies we saw be publicly identified as a criminal and wind up in jail.
9056552 I look forward to your reaction to the next chapter!
9056674 What would constitute a grand slam home run?
9057205 Heh, I did drag that out just a little bit, didn't I?
I honestly didn't plan on it, but Nosey's pleading with Lex ended up dominating the whole chapter. I don't plan on keeping everyone in suspense any longer though, so tune in for the next chapter to see what happens to Spit Polish!
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You won't get guff from me for characters insisting they need time to do a thing. They do that.
9057235 A very nuanced post on the subject! I'm glad you're finding the cliffhanger interesting; it does indeed allow for both sides of the debate to be considered, since at this point both Lex and Nosey have brought up different points, and neither are necessarily "wrong" in what they've said.
I've mentioned before that there's a very salient point to keep in mind that the show is rather clear on demonstrating that the ponies tend to forgive wholeheartedly if they believe that the offender has had a change of heart. That's distinct from out world, where punishment and deterrence are generally taken to have primacy over rehabilitation. That distinction is a fairly substantial one, as it gets into not just the sociocultural differences between our world and Equestria, but raises the question of why the ponies are different like that. (And unlike areas of romance or sexuality, we tend to have more a little more to go on, albeit not that much more.)
Lex raises the issue effectively because he, unlike everypony else (but like us), puts a lot of emphasis on punishment (and, presumably, some on deterrence). He does still favor rehabilitation, of course; but he seems to see the need to supplement it. To everypony else, however, it comes off as (likely needless) cruelty: why is he punishing someone who already knows what they did was wrong and feels bad about it? But given what's happened to Vanhoover, his way of doing things might be warranted...but it's hard to say.
Here's hoping he can find a way to satisfy both himself and everypony else with his decision next chapter...
9058368
Sonata:Lex, what do two blue lines mean on this test?
9058345
Sure, I'm saying that the titans have similar CRs as demonlords and solars and things. They're all statted out.
That's a good point. I've notice that a lot of times when players have options, there is the "slog" option and the "clever" option. Players who don't think about it generally end up in the slog, and players who pick the clever option are still challenged, while also proud of themselves for avoiding the slog.
I like Abductive reasoning. I think you can use it, for example, to look at the technologies and institutions of a society and work back what they previously developed.
Not necessarily. Remember that knowing isn't the same as doing, and destroying evil artifacts is fantastically difficult. I'd like to use Visineir again, as a good example of a standard pathfinder equivalent to Severance. Destroying this artifact requires first getting the artifact away from Mephistopheles, then tricking or forcing Asmodeous himself into destroying Mephistopheles using the pen. If we assumed Heaven knew about this method of destruction, it's still not surprising that Visineir currently exists, right?
Another way of looking at it is this: The Mages Disjunction option also exists to destroy artifacts. It is extremely difficult, but probably less difficult than the actual listed method of destruction. A gate archon buffed up could almost certainly pass the UMD check and the will saving throw to keep their spellcasting. There's the 95% chance of angering an evil outsider, but destroying an evil artifact in the listed method probably also accomplishes that. So even if Heaven has no idea how to destroy these artifacts directly, it could pump out scrolls of Mages Disjunction and try to destroy them that way. Of course, we know Heaven doesn't do that.
Therefore, I think it's not a lack of knowledge of means of destruction keeping evil artifacts around, but rather A)How difficult they are to acquire, considering dark gods and powerful outsiders possess most of them, and B)Destroying them, as you pointed out, would lead to a big all-out war.
Now, I admit this does nothing to prove that Heaven DOES know how to destroy evil artifacts, I just think it doesn't prove they don't know.
In this case it would be more like the Library of Congress + whatever info the CIA has. Though I do admit that's an apt metaphor overall.
Reminds me of when my friend wanted to start GMing totally open world campaign in Golarion, but he was worried I would use my extensive lore knowledge to seize valuable unguarded treasures for our 1st level party. I laughed and explained that as far as I knew, those don't exist, and my knowledge of valuable treasures was the equivalent of if one member of a band of brand new bank robbers had the Google Maps address of Fort Knox.
I think 90% of RPGs is trying to systematize something completely arbitrary. It's a good point.
Interesting! I wonder if that fits with Pathfinder's Gestalt system?
Sure. But the way Aria thinks, people honor their commitments only if they think they have to. She's quite cynical of everyone else, since she thinks they are like her. I think Aria understands the idea of "I have tricked Lex into keeping his commitment and can't let anyone talk him out of this" a lot better than "Lex's honor and integrity will move him to keep his word."
I generally agree. I'd be open to the idea that Aria alone of the three was not doing that, if she didn't feel like it and could rely on her magic to get what she wanted instead. (Clearly the other two though...)
Ah, he's using personal wealth and downtime to add to his spells known.
And Cozy and Aisle. Yeah, you may have a point. Celestia stuck people on the moon or petrified them or locked them in hell and people love her.
9058367
i am so nervicecited.
9058524
That's true, and that gives us a handy metric for comparing their power to creatures such as demon lords or arch-angels or Cthulhu, but calling them "demigods" is something that Paizo remains reluctant to put into print, for reasons that never fail to make me shake my head.
The nature of abductive reasoning is that it lets you conduct a logical inference where the explanation you come up with is reasonable, as opposed to probably (inductive reasoning) or irrefutably true (deductive reasoning). So you could use it for almost anything where the conclusion you arrive at is one that's plausible without necessarily being correct, or even likely.
There's a notable presumption here regarding the nature of artifacts (one that I feel like I should have brought up before) in terms of their utilization in the game world. Specifically, with regard to them as being actively wielded by powerful entities as part of their personal arsenals (often, though not always, because they created them) or alternatively as them being lost relics that are essentially "at large" in the cosmos (often with some sort of inability to be sensed by the gods and other powerful magic). The latter view was very much held dominant with regard to older editions of D&D (where artifacts were typically completely immune to even detecting them as magical), but right around the time that Third Edition happened things changed, and the former view held sway. (Though I should add that more recent editions of D&D seem to have the pendulum starting to swing the other way again.)
It's worth noting that these points of view aren't necessarily mutually exclusive; outside of questions regarding the fundamental nature of artifacts (i.e. if they're detectable with detect magic or not), you can certainly have both in a given campaign. But the idea of how accessible an artifact is - which ties into its ability to be researched - is often linked to whether it's a part of some cosmic entity's personal panoply or whether it's treated as a lost relic that's suddenly come back onto the world stage. Namely, the former view tends to invite more scrutiny, since the individuals that wield them tend to be major movers and shakers who invite a large degree of observation from other such beings, whereas the latter view often means that people tend to forget about those artifacts for a very long period of time, making the research much harder than going somewhere and reading the latest "threat reports."
I bring this up because I find myself more inclined towards the latter view, which holds that artifacts are basically long-gone items that are barely remembered by anyone anymore, and so there's simply very little lore to find, making even searching for such information a chore. Of course, that typically held to a relatively lower power-level overall, wherein it was a little harder to simply just cast a spell and have a chat with some eternal beings. Likewise, that's quite clearly not the case for Severance anyway, since it's (one of) the Night Mare's personal weapons.
Even so, the former view tends to be rather lacking on how groups would acquire this information about their enemies' artifacts in the first place. Quite simply, how would the angels know that Visineir would (only) be destroyed if Asmodeus used it to write a contract that voided Mephistopheles' existence? Such a thing quite clearly hasn't happened, and even if we presume that Asmodeus and Mephistopheles both have that knowledge (and the latter is questionable), it raises questions as to how anyone else could have it. Now, that's not an unsolvable problem - we can concoct all sorts of elaborate scenarios whereby, say, Asmodeus leaked the information in some sort of far-ranging plot to keep Mephistopheles in line - but it highlights the point: if these cosmic entities are wielding near-indestructible artifacts of their own creation, why would they every tell anyone those weak points to begin with? That's not really something that reconnaissance and observation can get; you'd need to get into issues of forcibly reading their minds, and if you're in a position to do that it's better to just kill them anyway. If their artifacts are a problem after that, well, just use mage's disjunction (which really obviates the need for elaborate and esoteric methods of destruction anyway, given how much its backlash has been watered down from earlier editions).
Which sort of underlines the point. If there's a disconnect between what we think we should be and what actually is, it's necessary to resolve the contradiction, at least if it's going to be an issue in the narrative sequence. In this case, being a game world, that means we either figure out why our reasoning is flawed and adjust it accordingly, or hold that our reasoning is correct and change the game world to match our conclusions. Since the latter tends to run into issues of unintended consequences, as it results in pretty much everyone using the most high-powered magic available, all the time (i.e. turning things into "rocket tag"), I elect not to go that route. (It helps that I do think that the underlying reasoning saying why things should be that way tend to be flawed anyway; the real world remains a useful example of why having the tools and information doesn't mean that you'll get the job done.)
There is no conclusive way to demonstrate what isn't known; it's enough to suggest that assertions that they must and do know aren't iron-clad.
The problem with extending the analogy that far is that it necessarily excludes the PCs. The CIA isn't going to let independent operatives use its resources, and even when it brings in an asset it'll control them far more than most PCs like or more celestials seem inclined to do. They certainly won't let the PCs waltz in and avail themselves of the intelligence they (the CIA) has gathered.
The difference there is that it's possible to at least come up with a framework of game rules that represent a plausible facsimile for things such as combat. Coming up with one that represents "what someone growing up in this world would know" is a lot harder, to the point of being essentially futile.
At the risk of being pedantic, Pathfinder doesn't have a "gestalt system." That's a 3.5 mechanic. Likewise, gestalt characters aren't really a point-buy progression; they're essentially just mash-ups of classes that are stronger than their parent classes because they get to take the best and leave the rest.
Honestly, I'd be surprised if Aria had put even that much thought into it. Although she's smarter than Sonata is, both of them are very much creatures of the id, existing largely to satisfy their personal desires and acting out of emotion rather than any sort of greater motivation. Adagio had the capability to use that more effectively, being proactive in going after what she wanted and utilizing tactics as necessary. Aria and Sonata were essentially just along for the ride; Aria might have had dreams of being the leader, but I doubt she would have been up to the task.
I see her as being as self-indulgent as her sisters, who wouldn't see any reason to deny herself if she was bored and looking for a quick bit of stimulation.
The difference being that none of them made a plea for forgiveness at the time; she essentially dealt a finishing blow during a fight, which is a lot different from winning the fight and then dragging your enemy in front of everyone, allowing them to tearfully repent, and then dealing the coup de grace.
Friendship and rainbows.
9221512 That's not out of the question, but I suspect that Lex has a very different take on those things than, say, the princesses would.