253 - Unequal and Opposite Reaction
“Your Majesty, this is most irregular!”
Luna smiled at the outburst, trying to make the expression seem kind instead of amused, not wanting her sister’s steward to think she was laughing at him. Still, it was difficult to keep from chuckling at his antics; the degree to which the old unicorn became flustered at even the slightest deviation from “royal propriety” – as he was fond of saying – was so over-the-top as to be funny. It was enough to make her wonder if her sister kept him employed purely for his entertainment value, though only briefly; she knew Celestia would consider such a thing to be mean-spirited. Even so, Luna couldn’t help but appreciate the steward’s inadvertent comedy routine…it served to distract her from thinking about the dream she’d just witnessed. “I appreciate your concern, but I doubt my sister will mind my stopping in to see her, even if it is the middle of the night. She is awake, after all.”
“That’s quite preposterous!” blustered the old stallion, before seeming to remember who he was talking to. “Er, Your Majesty,” he finished lamely. But a moment later he recovered his poise, trying again. “Princess Celestia retired several hours ago!” he insisted, punctuating his statement with a firm nod, nose in the air.
“And yet she wasn’t in the dream realm,” replied Luna easily, continuing past the steward as she strode down the hallway that led to her sister’s chambers. “Therefore, she must be awake.”
“N-no doubt she’s answering nature’s call!” yelled the flustered stallion, rushing forward and planting himself directly in Luna’s path. “She’ll almost certainly have returned to bed by the time you arrive, and waking her after she’s just gotten back to sleep would be-”
“Most irregular?” interjected Luna, giving another slight smile as she came to a stop. Despite her expression, she was finding the other pony’s antics less and less funny.
“…I was going to say ‘imprudent,’” harrumphed the stallion. “But it amounts to the same thing. I’m sure if you return to your chambers, you’ll be able to find Princess Celestia in the dream realm very shortly, and then you’ll be able to converse with her without interrupting her sleep.”
“And yet, my sister’s personal steward is awake and still in his uniform, despite it being past midnight.” Luna’s rebuttal wasn’t unkind, but it made the old unicorn go rigid all the same, sweat beading on his forehead. “So clearly, Celestia is not only awake, but has been for some time and likely will remain so for at least a little while, yes?”
“Er…I…that is…”
Seeing that no clear answer was forthcoming, Luna moved around the steward, who this time made no move to follow her. She was glad for that, as her good humor at how flustered he was had fled now that she knew for certain something was happening. But the fact that something had kept her sister up well past her normal bedtime wasn’t what made Luna anxious; it was that the timing of whatever was going on with Celestia didn’t feel coincidental…not when it was happening on the very same night that she’d just seen one of the worst dreams she could remember one of their little ponies ever experiencing.
Even now, remembering it sent a shudder down her spine. Bad enough that poor mare had been terrified, but the words of her dream-monster had been ominous in their implications. It had said, in its horribly distorted voice, that “it’s gonna happen again,” which had been what set the pony to screaming. While Luna knew it wasn’t a certainty, that suggested that she had gone through some sort of horrific incident in the real world, which was worrisome to consider. But not nearly as worrisome as what Luna had realized shortly after the dream had ended.
The monster in that pony’s dream had called her “Nosey.”
It had taken Luna a few minutes to remember where she knew that name from, but she’d felt her blood run cold once she had. Nosey Newsy had been the pony who’d written the article in the Canterlot Chronicle about Lex Legis – the pony who had King Sombra’s powers, and almost as much ambition – fighting a dragon outside of Tall Tale. That article, along with Luna having found out that Lex had become Tall Tale’s mayor, had been enough to prompt her and Celestia to invite the paper’s editor over to see if he’d had any additional information. He hadn’t, and the two of them had let the issue drop. Now, Luna was wondering if they’d made a serious mistake. It might all just be a coincidence. Nosey might simply have a highly active imagination that was running wild. There’s no proof that this has anything to do with Lex Legis. But her instincts said otherwise.
Luna hadn’t been there when Lex had made his first appearance in Canterlot. She’d heard secondhoof about his having declared himself in rebellion against the Crown. But she’d been present when he’d returned a short time later, during which Twilight Sparkle had personally brokered a deal between the dour unicorn and the princesses wherein Lex would go and manage Vanhoover, one of Equestria’s most distant – and, from what Luna had heard, most damaged – cities. Both Twilight and Celestia had felt that doing so would appease Lex’s ambition while nurturing his apparent desire to help, hopefully while giving him a chance to learn friendship in the process.
Luna, however, had been far less certain about the whole thing. While Twilight had vouched for his ideas looking good on paper, the impetus behind those ideas concerned Luna far more. Even overlooking the fact that he’d grafted King Sombra’s horn onto himself, Lex had radiated bitterness and resentment. His demeanor had come across as somepony who not only felt underappreciated, but was angry about it and wanted to punish those he felt were responsible.
It had been like looking at herself just before she’d become Nightmare Moon.
The comparison had been unsettling enough to push her to try and enter his dreams that same evening, in hope of understanding and perhaps even soothing whatever misfortune had brought Lex to his current state. But to her distress, his dreams had been closed off to her. Finding out that he had subsequently taken over Tall Tale had done little to ease her anxiety, and now this latest development with Nosey…it was all too much to ignore. At the very least, we should send somepony to look in on him, she decided. Hopefully Celestia would feel the same way; perhaps that was the reason she was awake long after she should have turned in.
Striding up to the door to Celestia’s suite – which, she noted, had light spilling out from under it – Luna knocked on it, not waiting for an answer before pushing it open. “Sister? I’m sorry to intrude but I-, OH!” All of her thoughts fled Luna’s mind in an instant at who she saw in her sister’s sitting room. On the far wall, Celestia was looking at her as she rose from a comfortable chair. Across from her was…the phrase “gentlecolt caller” floated through Luna’s mind for some reason, but she knew that was far too ridiculous a term for a visitor of this magnitude.
Sitting opposite her sister was an alicorn. An alicorn stallion. With six wings!
“Princess Luna, I presume?” Celestia’s guest also rose to all fours, crossing the room to greet her and giving her a deep bow when he stood before her. “Princess Celestia has spoken of you in the highest regard. I am honored to find myself in the presence of someone who has not only done so much for her people, but has found the strength and the wisdom to walk the path of redemption after falling from grace. Even across the boundless cosmos, figures of such inspiration are too rare a treasure.”
“…uh, thanks.” Still struggling to process what was going on, Luna couldn’t bring herself to think of anything else to say. The stallion’s voice was mellifluous, with a deep pitch and rich timbre that matched his stature, equaling Celestia in height and with a horn to match, and made his praise – which sounded entirely sincere, lacking even the faintest trace of sarcasm or mockery – sound all the more melodious to her ears. Part of her idly noted that the rest of him looked as good as he sounded, with a silver coat that all but glistened in the light, a mane of matching gold, and eyes that shined like topazes. Each of his wings (she couldn’t stop herself from counting them again, unable to believe how many he had) was pure white, though she couldn’t see if any other parts of him were as well; the rest of his body was completely hidden from the neck down, save for his golden-hued tail, beneath a gleaming suit of armor that seemed as though it had just been polished, shining magnificently.
Hearing Celestia’s giggle drew Luna back to herself, and she turned her eyes to her sister, silently asking for an explanation. Nodding slightly, Celestia stepped forward, grinning. “Luna, allow me to introduce Mihr, a ‘solar angel’ from…I’m sorry, where was it again?” she asked, turning her gaze back to their guest.
“Clarion,” he replied as he rose smoothly to his hooves. “The third realm of Heaven.”
“I see…” replied Luna, though that couldn’t have been further from the truth. Even so, her surprise was ebbing enough that she managed to recover some of her poise, offering a bow in return. “Then, although my sister has no doubt already done so, please allow me welcome you to Equestria, Mihr. I hope-”
“Your Majesty!” The voice of Celestia’s steward came from behind her, and when Luna glanced back she saw that he was red-faced and giving her sister a remorseful look. “My deepest apologies! I know you said you wanted nopony to know about your guest, but I simply didn’t have the authority to turn Princess Luna away!” His horn glowed as he slid an envelope out of a pocket. “Please allow me to offer you my resignation, so that I might wash away the stain of this disgra-”
“It’s quite alright,” interjected Celestia, her horn glowing as she took hold of the envelope and pushed it back towards the old unicorn. “I’d actually intended to summon Luna earlier and lost track of the time, so really you did me a favor by letting her come here.” She smiled warmly, though Luna could detect the hint of amusement in her expression. “I insist that you stay on.”
“If…if Your Majesty wishes it so, then I cannot object,” answered the steward shakily. Tucking the envelope back in his pocket, he stepped backward, horn lightening as he took hold of the door handle. “I’ll see to it that no further interruptions occur.” He didn’t wait for a reply as he closed the door, unable to stop himself from stealing a glance at the alicorn stallion before it clicked shut.
Once it was closed, Celestia gave a soft laugh, raising a hoof in front of her mouth as she looked at Mihr and Luna. “At least once a month, something will happen that will drive him to offer me his resignation. I really should tell him that he doesn’t need to keep doing that.”
“But then you’d miss out on his one-stallion show?” offered Luna with a smile of her own. The steward’s antics had managed to overcome her remaining surprise, and she moved to another chair to sit down, Celestia and Mihr doing the same, though the angel waited until both sisters were seated before doing the same.
Celestia shot her sister a knowing grin before turning back to the matter at hoof. “Mihr was just telling me about what brought him to Equestria.”
“Indeed.” The alien alicorn nodded at Celestia before turning to Luna. “Barely a day ago, I was alerted to an attack on the Threshold, the first realm of Heaven. An weapon of great power and great evil found its way to our shores, and when my brethren went to confront it before it could harm the residents there, it slew them.” His voice was somber then, closing his eyes and lowering his head in silent testament to the fallen.
“That’s horrible,” offered Luna. “I’m so sorry for your loss.”
Mihr gave her a thin smile then. “I am grateful for your words, though it pains me to say that they were not the only ones to have given the last full measure of their devotion. More angels and archons went to confront this evil device, and all of them fell. By the time I was made aware of the conflict and was able to make my way to the front, a great number of lives had been lost.” His expression turned grave as he spoke next. “But now I fear that Equestria might be in similar danger.”
Luna’s eyes widened. “What?!”
Celestia spoke up next. “Mihr was just telling me that he fought this weapon, which he said was a scythe that could move on its own, and fought it to a draw. When it realized it couldn’t win, it escaped.”
“And came to this world,” continued Mihr. “I was able to follow it here, but to my shame lost track of it.” He spread a wing then, looking back at it mournfully. “It seems this world wishes its residents to adopt equine forms. The transformation caught me by surprise, and in my foolishness I allowed this evil to escape.”
For a moment Luna’s brow furrowed, not sure what he meant by “transformation,” but that wasn’t important right now. “Do you know which way it went?”
“When you arrived, he was just telling me that it flew west, toward some mountains.”
Celestia’s answer came with a knowing look, and Luna felt a chill go down her spine. “The Unicorn Mountains.” It wasn’t a question; that was the only mountain range in the western portion of the continent. And beyond them… “Tall Tale and Vanhoover.”
Mihr cocked his head. “Is there a significance to those places?”
“I’m afraid so,” nodded Luna grimly, before turning to look at Celestia. “And it relates to why I came to see you, Sister.”
The next half-hour was spent with Luna telling Celestia what she’d seen in Nosey’s dream, and both princesses informing Mihr about Lex Legis and the deal they’d reached with him. When it was over, the angel was frowning deeply. “The creature from Nosey’s dream sounds like a bdellavritra, also known as a belier devil. They forcibly possess mortals and use their victims as a disguise while they work to corrupt others. If one of them is here now, then your realm is in graver danger than I thought, especially if it is somehow working with the artifact that attacked the Threshold.”
“Or with Lex,” added Luna.
“We don’t know that,” cautioned Celestia. “Right now we don’t even know if this ‘belier devil’ is really here or not, let alone what it might be connected to.”
Mihr shook his head. “I fear that your sister is more likely to be correct. A belier devil will not overlook a mortal of notable ability within its sphere of influence. If Lex Legis comes to the creature’s attention, it will react to him in one of three ways: as a victim to be corrupted, an enemy to be destroyed, or a potential collaborator to be used until he is no longer convenient. The third option,” he added, “always culminates in the first or second.”
A heavy silence fell then. But it only lasted for a moment before Luna rose to her hooves, Mihr immediately following suit. “We need to go to Vanhoover,” she declared, looking at Celestia.
“I agree.” Standing, the larger princess looked at their guest. “Mihr, will you accompany us?”
But the six-winged stallion shook his head. “Alas, I cannot. The way of Heaven is not to fight mortals’ battles for them, but to help them help themselves. I could only join a battle in this realm under very specific circumstances.”
Celestia was clearly not expecting that answer, and was already opening her mouth when Luna beat her to the punch. “But I thought you came here in order to continue fighting that scythe that attacked you?”
“On the contrary, I followed the weapon here so that I could ascertain its destination and give due warning to the champions of that realm that an artifact of evil was among them.” He smiled at them then, and the expression was apologetic. “And now, I have. With my duty complete, I am obligated to return to Heaven and report to my superiors what has transpired here.”
“Then at least allow us to thank you before you go.” Celestia smiled warmly at the angel. “Your warning might have saved us all.”
Mihr returned her smile with one of equal radiance. “It is I who should be thanking you. I spent only a short time moving among the mortals of this world, disguised as one of them while I sought out those best suited to facing the dark forces seeking to menace them. But in that time, I saw a people whose innocence and purity are akin to the choirs of virtuous souls that populate my realm. Though I have no doubt that the radiance in your hearts will carry you through this trial, I will offer my prayers to the myriad gods of goodness that the two of you will succeed. Until then, you have a friend in Heaven.” His horn began to glow as he finished speaking, and without another word he was gone, vanishing instantly.
Luna hesitated for only a moment, turning to the door as she started thinking out loud. “We should tell your steward to get us on the next train to Vanhoover. I know the railroads are closed down, but they’ll let us through if we tell them-, Sister? Are you listening?”
“Hm?” Celestia looked up from where she’d been staring at the space where Mihr had been. “Ah, yes, of course.”
Despite everything that had just happened, the corners of Luna’s mouth turned up. “Are you certain? Your ‘radiant heart’ doesn’t seem to be in it.”
“Stop it,” chuckled Celestia, making a shooing motion with one hoof. “Hurry up and call the steward.” Her voice turned teasing as she spoke again. “You’re interrupting my beauty rest.”
“You’re blushing, you know,” taunted Luna, throwing the door open and calling for the old unicorn before her sister had a chance to respond. Although it was a shame to cut off their banter so soon, since Luna knew it helped them both to deal with the enormity of everything they’d just been told, it had to be done. If the threat was as dire as Mihr had told them, then every second counted.
It was time to go pay Vanhoover, and Lex Legis, a visit.
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Oh great, even dead, Xirel is causing Lex more problems.
On the other hand, it should be entertaining for us, and cathartic for Lex, to have Lex shove it in the Princesses' faces just how badly they screwed up with Vanhoover.
Yeah but what he is doing is making a cult for an evil goddess.
I rather like how you handled the Angelic visitor. They seemed very in character.
Hoho, Celestia being smitten by a being from another plane. Wonder if this will motivate her to tread the path to godhood. A little unlikely but would make for a good love story...or a tragedy in the making.
At least the angel didn't intervene as much as I had thought he would though his warning to the princesses have done plenty to cause trouble for Lex. While the princesses checking in on Lex would be beneficial in that they would see the devastation caused by their inaction and subsequently prompt them to send the city and the beleaguered survivors much needed aid, doing so will take the wind out of Lex's sails.(since the other readers before me have stated similar reasons earlier in the story so I won't go wall o text on you with more redundant information.
)
Given the urgency, the princesses are likely to depart as soon as the arrangements are made or by themselves if need be but I'm sort of expecting Celestia and Luna to arrive by chariot(as well as a contingent of guards). A part of me wants to see them stop by in Talltale to get the full story behind Lex's deeds but given how dire the situation Mihr made it out to be, they're going to be making a beeline for Vanhoover...
Hmm, given how slow going Aisle and Cozy are, I also wonder if the princesses will somehow overtake them...or worse, spot them and descend to question them on what happened in Vanhoover. It would serve to make Luna more suspicious of Lex though I suppose Aisle's account would balance it out, well, if he speaks up that is.
Still I'm sort of grateful Mihr is bound by such rules on not intervening but I can't help but wonder what sort of circumstance would warrant his direct intervention. Could you elaborate on that or is Mihr going to return later on in the story?
Well, that will be one way of making sure the railway is working again. Watching Celestia and Luna on a train would be like watching a cross between The Core drill, and Digimon Rail, clearing and reforming the track as they go.
Did Xiriel do a random teleport, or an actual targeted one to get rid of the problem one way or the other? With the loss of hosts, at such character levels, like philosophers stones etc, how come the heavens dont have temporal disjunction? That is, loss of HP at a point means the character continues from a prior point? Or even Philosophers stone, perfect resurection etc, I thought tht in Pathfinder a L20 Artificer can make one per month essentially for free?
9026210 Political consequences, like physical wounds or emotional trauma, can outlast the events that caused them. Sometimes extremely so.
One can only hope that what happens next is a moment of sweet vindication for Lex. But as to whether or not that's what happens, well, we'll just have to wait and find out together.
9026227 He's doing some other stuff too, what with the saving innocent lives and defeating dangerous monsters and all.
9026249 Thanks!
For an angel, especially a high-ranking one, I thought that Mihr should come across as a paragon of virtuousness. That is, he should be humble, forthright, selfless, and righteous (without being self-righteous). Perhaps surprisingly, this was actually somewhat difficult to portray in a genuine manner; it honestly seems like, in most media nowadays (though this probably says more about what kind of media I consume than anything else), those qualities are used as dressing for villains, either as a deception or to try and ennoble hypocrisy.
Fun fact: while I made Xiriel's name up whole-cloth (save for the "-iel" ending to its name, which hints that it was originally a celestial that fell), Mihr's name is actually from religious mythology: according to Gustav Davidson's Dictionary of Angels, "Mihr" is the Angel of Friendship.
9026973
That is an appropriate name for an angel visiting Equestria, I cannot deny.
9026442 I suspect that when the princesses want the trains to run, they'll run. While they don't try to flex their authority the way Lex clearly wants them too, they still have it, and everypony else recognizes and respects it.
Xiriel deliberately sent Severance to Heaven. It didn't realize that the artifact had its own way of crossing the planes, and was thinking to send the deadly weapon to the plane of its enemies, so that they could fight and destroy each other. It's quite obvious now that the plan backfired, since Severance came back and brought Equestria to the angels' notice.
As for the rest of your questions...I think what you're asking is why the remaining angels don't just bust out various high-level effects to bring back the angels that Severance slew? That's a fair question; even if Outsiders require higher-level magic than mortals to resurrect, it's still possible. To that end, there are two things to consider: resources and philosophy. Resources ask if they have what it takes to bring back their dead brethren. Not every angel or archon is capable of using a limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection, after all. Mihr could, being a solar, but that's really about it. And while there's no hard number on how many angels there are (let alone solar angels), the default presumption is that those numbers are comparatively small (for example, I've heard of the idea that planetar angels are so named because there's only one of them for every planet, and solar angels are named because there's only one of them for every solar system. That's never been taken as literal for any version of D&D that I know, but it's an interesting way to characterize the presumed scarcity of celestial Outsiders, compared to their fiendish counterparts). Likewise, very few Outsiders have class levels, let alone enough to get to 20th level in anything; although Pathfinder doesn't do a good job addressing it, 3.5 was pretty clear that Effective Class Levels (i.e. natural Hit Dice plus a Level Adjustment for special powers and abilities) meant that a lot of high-power monsters were already effectively high-level characters, and so taking levels in further classes would require obscenely high amounts of experience points, making them - for all intents and purposes - unreachable. So that's why you don't see planetar angels that are also level 20 alchemists.
There's also an issue of just how many angels could be brought back with each casting. That's a tricky issue, because while it's usually thought of as "it duplicates an existing resurrection effect, all of which are single-target" and so could only bring back one creature per casting, miracle can (if you use an expensive material component) "raise fallen allies" with no real specification for how many that means. Still, I'd be fairly conservative with that number, to the point of keeping it in the single digits.
There's also an issue of philosophy with regards to the use of angels and archons resurrecting their own. While that seems questionable on its face ("why not bring back your friends, allies, and comrades who were slain in battle?"), the lore regarding slain Outsiders - at least when they die permanently on their native plane - is that their essence disperses into the fabric of the plane itself. So there might be an issue of letting the dead rest in terms of them having achieved a oneness with Heaven itself; to that end, some slain angels might refuse to accept the resurrection, having achieved their version of nirvana [insert jokes about Nirvana being its own distinct plane of existence here]. That might sound a bit thin, but that's because we tend to look at these things in terms of practicalities, whereas there's an implicit assumption that angels are going to have at least some sort of metaphysical/spiritual take on these sorts of questions, and so won't always go for the most practical solution. That tends to rankle everyone's inner power-gamer, but there it is.
Even with all of that said, however, I wouldn't be surprise if at least some angels were brought back. There's just too much ubiquity and power among high-level d20 characters to easily discount that altogether.
9026401 I threw in that bit about Celestia taking a shine to her angelic visitor for one reason; mild spoilers here, but for very long-term stuff that I probably won't get to for quite some time: up until now, all of the alicorns have been changing as a result of Equestria's coming into contact with Everglow and the rest of the multiverse, except for Celestia. Twilight is adventuring on Everglow (and gaining more power as a result), Cadance has pledged herself to the service of a god and gained at least some power from doing, while Luna is trying to become one (also with at least indirect results, since she can grant at least minor divine spells). Only Celestia hasn't grown as a result...that, however, might start to change now.
As for what sort of circumstances would allow Mihr to get more involved...this gets into the driving philosophy behind good-aligned Outsiders in D&D (i.e. celestials). There's always been a background assumption that they take a hands-off approach, based on a combination of them being wildly outnumbered by the fiends (i.e. evil-aligned Outsiders) and being philosophically inclined to help nurture mortals rather than fighting their battles on their behalf. Unfortunately, all of that has virtually always been explicit rather than outright stated, leaving the specifics irritatingly nebulous. The closest that I've ever come to seeing these points better articulated was back in Warriors of Heaven for AD&D 2E. Even then, it basically boiled things down to three rules:
Honestly, none of those strike me as being very cogent. For example, evil doesn't need an excuse to escalate a conflict; that's sort of what they do anyway, and so their claiming that they're only doing it because the good guys are strikes me as being inherently disingenuous. While I can see the angels adopting a "we can't take a chance" attitude, you'd think at some point they'd realize that they were bargaining with entities that, for the most part, can't be trusted to keep their promises (or, if they do, will pervert them at every possible point). The one about not revealing themselves as celestials is thematic, to be sure, but strikes me as overblown; notwithstanding divine spellcasters, most mortal adventurers tend to be self-possessed and independent anyway, so worrying about them ignoring the spirit of a celestial's words because they're trying to curry favor seems almost parochial. It also prevents them from saying "guys, there's an emergency, and you should take what I'm saying seriously because I come from Heaven!" the way Mihr did here.
So with all those tossed out, what sort of circumstance would allow Mihr to get directly involved? Well, that's a trickier question. Certainly, mortals can open the proverbial door, in that regard; that's what spells like greater planar ally or gate are for, after all. Notwithstanding such direct invitations, it's less about whether or not they can get involved so much as it is how. There is still something to the idea that the angels are outnumbered compared to fiends, and so want to encourage goodness in mortals, rather than solving their problems for them. But as for specifics...well, I don't have any to give; I suspect that even for the Lawful celestials, it's one of those things that needs to be justified based on circumstances, rather than strict doctrinal interpretation.
some how i see Lex and the sisters getting in to it or vary close to it.
9027545 Such a thing is not only possible, but likely.
Quite an interesting new character. At first I was afraid Mihir was faking, a powerful fiend who heard about the ignorant mortals on this plane and was setting up a long con. I believe him now. I understand why he couldn't aid Celestia and Luna by going to Vanhoover, but he could have at least researched and told them Severance's means of destruction. (I initially suspected he came packing a bunch of scrolls of Mage's Disjunction).
It will be interesting to see how Luna and Celestia react to meeting Severance. Do they have an inherent ability to sense alignment? That could make a big difference in whether Severance gets perceived as just an edgy-looking weapon slung over Lex's back, or an overwhelming font of pure vileness.
9027055 Definitely intrigued by this angle as well. Celestia is basically a proto-deity who could "flip a switch" and start counting as one in fairly short order if she really wanted to. And a specific duty of Solars is advising new deities...
9027717 Several interesting points here to unpack:
This is a bit of a narrative conundrum with regards to established supporting characters, particularly in a setting with a lot of magic; there's always the possibility of having the rug pulled out from under you later. Now, that's not usually presumed unless there are some sort of cues given to readers (or, at the very least, there's a setup given wherein someone is confirmed to be engaging in a deception, without knowing precisely who, e.g. there's confirmation that someone in a group is a traitor/spy/snitch/etc.), where the character does something that clashes with what we've seen of them that raises our suspicions.
However, certain ideas, themes, and presentations have become associated with this idea to the point where they're sometimes taken to be indicative of such a thing even without any sort of evidence presented within the framework of the narrative itself. One of those is the idea of any sort of "objectively good" object or being, such as angels. I've read/watched a lot of stories where angels are initially presented as being good only for the sheen to come off later, typically either because they're presented as antagonizing (if not outright working to the detriment of) innocent people who don't live up to their (the angels') sense of morality (i.e. the old "wrathful religious" literary archetype), or are complicit with a lot of evil due to some greater sense of "cosmic balance" wherein they acknowledge that evil is supposed to exist, has a place in Creation, and shouldn't be wiped out even though that means that innocent people will continue to suffer. Both, needless to say, make them fail to live up to being "good" as we'd think about it now.
While it's typically incumbent on me as the author to want to preserve ambiguity with regards to various aspects of the characters (not just to preserve narrative "elbow room" for myself with regard to later developments, but also because I know such things are fun for readers who get drawn into the story), I'll say that I wasn't trying to invoke any of the aforementioned tropes with regards to Mihr's presentation.
There are two points here, of which I'll address the second one first:
Although I didn't mention his weapons here, I'm operating under the idea that Mihr has the standard equipment for a solar angel, which is a +5 dancing longsword, a +5 composite longbow (with a Strength rating of +9), and +5 full plate armor; all of these are sized for a Large creature. The longsword has a total cost of 162,330 gp. The longbow: 51,400 gp. The armor costs 28,150 gp. That's 241,880 gp altogether. There's no way to be sure if that's the standard amount for a CR 23 creature - both the NPC Gear table and the Treasure Values per Encounter table stop at 20, and the mythic High CR Treasure per Encounter table gives three results (for slow, medium, and fast advancement games) where even the most generous (i.e. fast) falls short for what a CR 23 creature should have, at 190,000 gp - but it seems like solars are already at their maximum amount of allowable gear. Given that the cheapest scrolls of mage's disjunction (cast by a wizard at 17th level) cost 3,825 gp, him having several to pass out wasn't really in the cards.
Even then, there are a number of potential complications in play, the biggest one being if either Celestia or Luna could even use such a scroll at all. They'd either need to have it on their spell list (which I find iffy) or have a sufficiently generous Use Magic Device skill bonus (which I find even more iffy). Even overlooking that, if they used the spell on Severance it would only have a 17% chance of destroying it (again, presuming minimum caster level), and it would get a saving throw (albeit at a -5 penalty). Moreover, whichever one of the Royal Sisters used the scroll would then need to make a DC 25 Will save or lose all spellcasting abilities. And even if all of that went in their favor, they're 95% likely to attract the Night Mare's attention...and it's a safe bet that she'd be pissed.
The other point that should be brought up is with the idea of knowing, or researching, Severance's means of destruction. Even presuming that fell under one of his Knowledge skills (likely Knowledge (religion), which has a +31 bonus), I wouldn't be wild about the idea of just having something like a major artifact's method of destruction be determinable that way. Quite the contrary, at the dead minimum I'd make it use something like the research rules, and even then it would likely be a major adventure just to find a place where something like that could be researched at all!
More notably, Mihr only came into contact with Severance one day ago, and never learned so much as its name. While his high Knowledge (religion) bonus might indicate that he should know that, or at least know about the Night Mare, I'm not so certain. The pony pantheon of Everglow (and, in fact, all the gods of Everglow) have always struck me as being fairly provincial deities as far as the wider planar community is concerned. I'm of the opinion that there are a LOT of gods out there, and that asking any one being to be able to keep track of them all is like asking an astronomer to be able to look up at a clear night's sky and name every single visible star; it doesn't matter how good he is at his job, he's not going to be able to do it. I'd honestly be surprised if Mihr has ever even heard of the Night Mare before, though he might know (of) someone who has.
I see no reason why they should (more on this below).
Well, that and what they were just told.
I'm on the record as disagreeing heavily that Celestia is anywhere near godhood. To me, she's got levels in the high single-digits, and no more. Simply put, we've seen nothing to indicate that she's anywhere near a d20 divinity in terms of her power level. She never uses any particularly strong magic that we see, we know that small groups of other ponies can move the sun anyway (season eight's Horse Play walked that back somewhat by making some of "The Journal of the Two Sisters" canon, but only somewhat, and not resolving any of the contradictions therein), and living for over a thousand years with no end in sight simply isn't a big deal. No one thought that elans were overpowered when they did that, for example.
(One traditional argument here is to compare how Tirek was Twilight's fighting equal after they both powered up in season four's Twilight's Kingdom - Part 2, saying something along the lines of "but look at how the magic of only four alicorns equaled the magic of literally everypony else plus Discord!" The problems therein are many, most notably that we don't know that their magic was "equal" per se; the two of them fought a brief skirmish, realizing that neither of them was strong enough to secure a quick, decisive victory, at which point Tirek changed tactics by holding hostages. We also don't know how many ponies he drained, or what percentage of the population they made up. That also presumes that the amount of magic gathered is additive, rather than, say, logarithmic. Since "alicorn magic" in the show seems to be enhancing existing magical abilities, i.e. metamagic, it's fairly easy to showcase it as being free metamagic levels, as Thoth did in Part One of his Princess Luna write-up. In this case, being able to drop 16 levels of free metamagic on a spell is a lot different than 4 levels the way the princesses normally can. (I should note that Thoth's presumptions about representing how ponies can use their magic in game terms is different from mine, but still agrees with a lot of what I wrote about Princess Celestia.))
Given that I agree how, when bringing fictional characters into RPGs, it's best to presume that their confirmed abilities represent the sum total of what they can do (rather than presuming that they have a great deal of additional power that is simply never utilized, since when such things get mentioned they're usually only foreshadowing for when said power is put to use), that's the sum total of what Princess Celestia can do. And in d20 terms, it's just not all that much. Hence, I don't see her as being anywhere close to becoming a goddess.
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You weren't doing anything to invoke the idea, I was just paranoid after all of Xiriel's deceptions.
I didn't think he'd have the scrolls as part of his standard compliment of course. I was thinking that if he spent some time prepping before traveling to Equestria (and it sounds like he did), Heaven must have access to some kind of armory that high ranking members like Solars can draw upon in response to a specific threat.
I doubt it, I was assuming (at the time, I hadn't finished the chapter yet) that Mihir would read the scrolls himself, nobly sacrificing his own spellcasting capacity if necessary (a 5% chance for him). I figured he's not really that scared of the Nightmare himself.
I've never been wild about the idea that a subject can't be researched at all. Yes, these are powerful magical artifacts created by beings going to great lengths to hide the knowledge of their destruction. There are also equally powerful magical sages divining lost secrets and recording them in libraries, overcoming magical barriers. Would the secret to destroying Severance be researchable in Canterlot, or Absalom? Definitely not. Probably really hard to do in in Viljatown. But Mihir would be doing his research in Heaven, the guys who commissioned The Book of the Damned to gather up all the information in the multiverse, specially focusing on the secrets of evil. That particular example didn't work out so well for them, but I wouldn't be surprised if details of Severance are available somewhere in the Great Library of Harmonious Scripture.
That said, I do agree with your point that Everglow and its deities are a fairly remote section of the multiverse, and so I could see stuff about them being much harder to find.
Right, that was the core of my incorrect assumption. We've been in combat mode back in Vanhoover so long it feels like weeks or months since Severance made his little jaunt, so I figured Mihir was spending that time prepping. My mistake.
I can generally see that, but in this particular verse hasn't Luna already become a god? It wasn't even that big a deal, she just started passing out spells to worshippers and answering prayers. I figure if Luna can do it Celestia can.
That principle should only be applied if there is a clear situation where the powers in question would be useful and the characters aren't shown trying to use them. (Otherwise we have to assume that Aragorn never wore pants in LoTR, since its never mentioned what he wears, or that monstrous races don't have latrines). If you are comparing someone to the foes they fight and you have a mechanical idea of what someone has just fought, (like a fire demon), then its safe to say the character in question is roughly the appropriate CR to beat a fire demon, unless there are some really good extenuating circumstances. That said, I specifically agree in the case of Celestia, since we've seen her fighting and losing many times to many different foes that an epic/mythic level character could crush.
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Ah, okay. Just making sure.
He didn't spend any time prepping before he went to Equestria. He says:
That was meant to convey that he was right behind Severance when it went back to Equestria. But the whole "becoming a horse" thing threw him off his game just enough for the scythe to escape. After that, he says:
That tells us that after following Severance to Equestria and subsequently losing track of it, he spent his time disguised as a pony in order to figure out more about the world he found himself in. He did that for precisely one day - since that's the amount of time between when Severance returned and now - before he apparently learned enough to prompt him to go talk to the princesses.
So in other words, it's been one day since Mihr met Severance, during which he was checking out Equestria. No other prepping went into what he's done so far. While I have little doubt that he could get access to more gear if he really needed it, that's kind of a moot point here.
How would he be able to use the scrolls himself? Just like Celestia and Luna, he suffers from the twin issues of "not having it on his spell list" and "not having any ranks in Use Magic Device." As a standard solar angel, he wouldn't be able to use a scroll of mage's disjunction on his own. (In point of fact, this is precisely why I gave Xiriel a scarlet and blue ioun stone with its associated skill being Use Magic Device; otherwise, his having a scroll with all those spells would have made no sense.)
Hold on there; I didn't say it couldn't be researched at all. I think you're misreading my statement of "I wouldn't be wild about a major artifact's method of destruction being determinable" via a single skill check. That was my saying that there should be more to such an undertaking than a single die roll, with a massive bonus to it, to declare that you already know it. That completely eliminates the "questing for lost knowledge" trope, which I think is very apropos for something like destroying a major artifact like Severance.
That's only slightly better than just making a Knowledge check. In this case, there's some further justification for it, but that ignores the meta-narrative issue of "just sitting on the answer" being boring, which is a cardinal sin for a story. It isn't enough for something to be viable under the game rules; it has to be that and entertaining to read about. If the key to Severance's destruction was handed out by some angel who just showed up and said "and here's how you unmake it," then that would feel less estimable than if that knowledge was something that had to be sought out and fought for.
I should also note that the the Great Library of Harmonious Scripture says that it's "the largest depository in Heaven of knowledge on the laws, cultures, inhabitants, and histories of other planes." There's nothing in there about eldritch secrets or powerful rituals or anything of the sort. It's a library filled with guides to other realms.
So far, all Luna has done is figure out how to grant her (extremely few) worshipers some low-level spells. Under the standard Pathfinder rules, that's no different than if she had the divine source mythic ability. That's a 3rd-tier ability, and if we presume the usual progression of "one tier per two character levels," she could be as low as 6th-level and have that ability. That would make her, at most, roughly an 8th-level character...which, ironically enough, is the level of her Eclipse write-up.
Having Luna basically decide to become a god, or at least a demigod, is the implication that David Silver was working under for the previous fics in this particular progression. I, on the other hand, take a very different view of things, including her granting spells to worshipers. She might have been able to get that trick down (at least somewhat) with barely any effort, but that's very far from being divine, and is about all she can easily do.
You're invoking two different principles here, and conflating them based on the fact that they both deal with the issue of making presumptions around what we don't know.
The "Aragorn's pants" issue is, broadly speaking, an issue regarding the inherent presumption of humanocentricism in fantasy, insofar as it's an answer to "how do things (i.e. creatures) work." This is really just a slight variation on Occam's razor, in that it's a guiding principle on, when there's a gap in your knowledge that needs to be filled in but said knowledge simply isn't available, you default to the explanation that requires the fewest assumptions. In the case of how characters, people, and creatures work, that means defaulting to what we know about humans (or, in some cases, another real-world animal that more closely matches the creature in question). It's why we presume that ponies reproduce in the normal mammalian manner, rather than thinking that their young are literally delivered from somewhere via storks.
The issue of bringing fictional characters into RPGs is different because there's no need to make presumptions in the first place; you translate what abilities they're shown to have, and that's it. If the body of knowledge you're drawing on is holistic with regards to their powers and abilities, then there are no area blank areas regarding "what it does/how it works" that need to be filled in. Even if there are, that's usually something you see only because the source material hasn't concluded yet, and so there's foreshadowing that hasn't yet been fulfilled. Either way, there's no cause to add anything that isn't seen in the source material.
In other words, you presume that Aragorn is wearing pants because that's what people do, both in the story and in general. You don't presume that he can shoot laser beams out of his eyes because that's not what people do either in the story or in real life, and there's nothing in the source material that says he can.
In theory, the idea of "we can describe the qualities of X based on what we know of their interactions with Y" is a useful guideline. But it's just that: a guideline. It's very easy for this go awry, typically because there's an error in measuring the qualities of Y, which is being used as the baseline for X. So if you've fundamentally erred with regards to measuring the power of a balrog, then you're likely going to do the same for Gandalf as well. That often leads to a chain-reaction, since multiple characters will interact with each other over the course of a story, leading to a cascading series of presumptions that end (that I've seen) with presuming that everyone's 20th-level and decked out in high-spec magical gear, despite that looking nothing like the source material. That's why I much prefer to view a character's abilities in isolation, and measure them under the objective yardstick of the game rules.
Hey! They're doing something!
Celestia and Luna seem more reactionary, and only proactive against threats that their little ponies can't handle on their own. It is certainly not a *bad* way to govern, but I see why Lex thinks they don't do enough. Someone with the ideas of Lex, if in a more palatable form, would most certainly get their attention, so long as they didn't have to do much with it.
9221417 That does sum things up in a nutshell, I have to say.