• Member Since 25th Apr, 2012
  • offline last seen April 4th

Hooves Like Jagger

The thought "Oh no, not this guy again," given human form.


Somepony had to create the Elements of Harmony. In the dark days of Discord's rule, Celestia called upon Vulcan, a minotaur blacksmith of legendary renown, to put harmony on his forge and hammer out a weapon with which she could defeat Discord. After Discord had been defeated, Celestia discovers he has also created a set of elements that oppose the Elements of Harmony. Vulcan is branded a traitor and is doomed to be imprisoned far, far away from Equestria. He has only one final request: to explain to the Princess why he created what he calls the True Elements of Harmony.

Chapters (1)
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Comments ( 29 )

This is quite the concept!

You gotta make more of these kinda stories.


I love, and I mean absolutely love reading stories like this. This wouldn't even have to be a MLP work of fiction to make an excellent story, either, but it lends to it an excellent way.

All I can say is, I hope this gets the attention it deserves. Thumbs up, my friend, and good luck in the world of fiction. God only knows you're going the right way. :twilightsmile:

Amazing. This has a bit of a political feel too it too - Celestia's socialism(altruism for the sake of others) verses Vulcan's anarcho-capitalism(rational self-interest) .

It would be an injustice for this to not be featured.

This somehow managed to open my mind up to some of the more darker sides of the Mane 6. You're actually right... ponies are not picture perfect and are susceptible to going against what they stand for. We've seen this many times in the show, too... for example, Rainbow is loyal but selfish, and Rarity is generous yet she can be vain and somewhat greedy at times.

Very nice concept. It got me thinking. :pinkiesmile:

Wow. Just wow.

This sir, is a work of art. Terrible and right, cruel but true.

Well, I must say, in truth. First of all, Harmony cannot be without Chaos. Perhaps, if everyone ceased to exist, the world would be pure peace. No murder, no death, no nothing. Final and eternal peace.

This is really good :moustache:

Wow, this has to be the best Elements of Harmony backstory I've ever read. Interesting concept, thorough explanation, and overall good story. It would be really awesome if you can continue this, maybe more on Vulcan, or even the True Elements.

i am pleased:rainbowkiss:

... This=masterpiece

if humans had elements of harmony these would be it.

A very well-thought-out ideal of Harmony. Each Element has its valid points, too. I could see this version of Harmony being very effective, if not very enjoyable. Great work! :twilightsmile:

Even in the explanation it is obvious that they require the original elements to function, but you can see thatthey are the reason the first elements are needed.

I bet Luna got a kick out of his illusion explanation. The stars are fake, the moon is a copy that needs a star.

Make a another story connected to this one :pinkiehappy:

This could just be me, but as I was reading the part about Kindness/Apathy, I immediatley thought of the Way of the Open Palm and the Way of the Closed Fist. Really reminded me of them.
Anyway, brilliant story and I believe entirely true. No human is perfect, why should ponies be any different? We all have our faults, and the only way to become the best we can is not to bury those imperfections, but embrace and ultimately overcome them.
Envy; Duplicity; Apathy; Brooding; Secrecy. All these dwell in our hearts, our souls. Pretending they don't exist is an excellent route to destruction. Those who first proclaim themselves saints often also have the blackest hearts.
Hiding our dark, true selves is wrong. We are all imperfect. Pretending otherwise won't help, it'll just make things worse in the long run.
Bring these shadows into the light, for only there can they be purged, and we may become better.

Sorry about the whole 'dark, gothic' feel, I just :heart: those genres :twilightblush:

I think Vulcan entirely missed the "Harmony" part of the name. If he was right, he'd be effectively making each person absolutely alone... even if a person didn't disturb everyone else because everyone was so self-absorbed they didn't interfere with one another, that wouldn't be Harmony.

Still, this was an outstanding little insight--not merely of traits that could be called evil in some circles, but of how even something like that could be seen to have a positive side.


We are all fallen, and to claim we are perfect is a lie; but why does that mean we shouldn't strive to be as close to perfect as we can be anyways? :rainbowhuh:

Jesus died on the cross to take the punishment for our crimes. Anyone who accepts him has their sin erased and Jesus's spotlessness placed over him/ her so that they can be 'legally' perfect and spend eternity in heaven. :pinkiehappy::pinkiehappy::pinkiehappy:

I agree with dragonjek though:

Harmony by definition is getting along with each other; the life Vulcan promotes is pretty much for everyone to live completely alone.

I also strongly resent Vulcan's idea's that that everyone is eventually out for themselves; and the kind, generous, loyal are all just facades to cover up ulterior motives.

Interesting story, quite compelling, a lot of thought put into the arguments.

Vulcan's arguments are heavily biased, but from his standpoint they make sense - "Be strong and rely only on yourself, trusting in others is weakness". Those would likely be ideals espoused by minotaur culture (much of Iron Will's practices are focused on personal strength and integrity) but it's not the pony way. He also made straw arguments of the regular Elements, pointing out hypothetical weaknesses and ignoring strengths so as to argue better for his stance. This feels very much in character for the scene.

I'm not quite sure what Celestia's reaction signifies - is she conceding his point, but fearing the dangers this 'True Harmony' may pose, or is she writing him off as a lost cause, who cannot be made to see the truth and would risk creating more terrors if left on his dark path? Or maybe that is for he reader to decide...

This would make for very good support material for a story where the 'True Elements' emerge and cause conflict with the original ones. If that happens, it will be essential that both sets will be treated from an unbiased standpoint. It would be interesting indeed.

Interesting, what Vulcan suggests is true harmony, is more or less everlasting perfect balance. Chaos and Order are always at 50-50.
But that's boring, nothing would grow in such a world. It would be just as bad as a world filled with only Order, or one filled with only Chaos.
I prefer the imperfect set of Elements of Harmony. Always shifting between the center but never staying right on the dot perfectly. Much more entertaining.


Not that I know of.

Vulcan's logic is so incredibly flawed I could write a thesis paper on it. The whole time he's laying out his ideas I'm thinking, "what a jackass". I don't know if that's what you were going for, but the way the narrator seems to feel he needs to hide these ideas so that future generations can find them suggests that it's not. I liked two of your other stories (Big Lugnut and Afternoon Delight, haven't read any others) but this was kind of lacking.

There are PLENTY of ways to use a dark mirror of the elements of harmony for some sort of good. there are many, many ways to deconstruct the elements.

Your fic, however, is not even wrong: it is an invalid logical argument

First, the apple farmer vs. oyester diver analogy. During this, you/he claims/assumes that hard work is better than laziness to assert that secrecy is better than blunt honesty. fair enough.

Then, he/you talks about apathy like it's a good thing. But assuming/concluding that apathy is a good thing completely contradicts the claim/assumption that hard work is better than laziness, rendering either the first or second argument invalid.

don't get me started on the horrid mess that is your "deconstruction" of magic.


Okay, three things (in no particular order):

1. Fair enough.

2. Working hard and being apathetic about one's work are not necessarily mutually exclusive. There is something to be said about being emotionally unattached to your work. There is a kind of release in acknowledging that no matter how difficult the task or how much effort you pour into it, in the end you may actually fail or the results will be fleeting and of little consequence. If that seems completely wrong to you, then you'll be happy to know that you're right. An emotional investment in your work is admirable and highly advisable.

3. Fair enough.

If you don't want to get started on my "deconstruction" of magic that's fine, but just know I won't be mad if you do and disappointed if you don't.

Vulcan is an idiot, and everything he says nonsense. The closest he comes is with the first part, but even there teaching others to learn can be done in better ways than secrecy.

So besides that Vulcan somehow had precognition is describing the future bearers of Harmony, I like that he used gemstones and fire to describe generosity. Rarity and Spike!

What Vulcan describes sounds more like the "Elements of Order" than anything else, other than the last one: destruction is a force of change, and change is a part of Chaos, but if EVERYTHING is destroyed, then order is all that is left.

Perfect Order isn't harmony, and Harmony isn't anathema to Chaos - Harmony is the happy and imperfect balance of Order and Chaos, because life as we know it literally can't exist without both. Enough Order to give life time to adapt, yet enough chaos to give it reason to adapt and grow strong, for without change, what reason is there to exist? Just so we can acknowledge that we do indeed exist, and nothing else.

Chaos is passion, creativity, chance, change, emotions and destruction.
Order is lethargy, impotance, structure, stagnation, apathy and construction (not creation because it's never something new).
Harmony is whatever lies between these things, but it's often not exactly what is wanted or wished for. Honestly, the Elements of Harmony aren't really about Harmony, it's just plain friendship that happens to cause Order, to be used when Chaos is getting a bit too strong/much.

Side note: imo.

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