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Titanium Dragon


TD writes and reviews pony fanfiction, and has a serious RariJack addiction. Send help and/or ponies.

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In the days after her ascension, every newspaper in Equestria is talking about how Princess Celestia transformed Twilight Sparkle into an alicorn princess.

There's just one problem – Twilight knows that's not what happened.

Why does Celestia let them believe something that isn't true? After all, it isn't like knowing could hurt anypony, right?

Chapters (1)
Comments ( 203 )
Wanderer D
Moderator

"Better they think they're not worthy in my eyes, than discover they're not worthy at all." Basically.

Nice piece, man!

It's easy to set aside unrealistic hopes for normal achievements, like becoming a rock star or playing professional sports. It's a little harder to let go of when it's literally a matter of survival.

6604686
Pretty much. Is that a quote from somewhere?

Thanks! I'm glad you liked it!

This was incredible, well thought out and a great story. Well done mate.

Wanderer D
Moderator

6604729 Nah, no quote. Just my summary of Celly's position. :twilightsmile:

Make everyone bitter and angry, the best option.

Celestia smiled gently. “You are a princess now, too. What is it that you would you do differently?”

Twilight stared down at the city in silence for several long minutes, watching the gardener’s family walk past the closed gate in front of Celestia’s School for Gifted Unicorns. The distant laughter of foals echoed across the courtyard, interrupting the sound of birds calling to one another in the garden below as they hunted for bugs. Her eyes flicked across the city, past the ancient towers and newly-constructed buildings, then away, to the shape of Ponyville clinging to the horizon.

“Kill them all.”

6604725
Quite a bit harder, really. It is a kind of strange thought.

Then again, some futurologists believe that everyone today is making the same choice by not pushing for immortality research.

6604765
So what would you do differently?

Or was that your answer? :ajsmug:

That was a very nice read. But I don't think I understand Celestia's reasoning. If ponies believe that Celestia can turn them into alicorns, won't they try to convince her of their worth anyway (EDIT: by trying to achieve what they see as the necessary), much in the same way that they'd try to achieve it by themselves? What did I miss?

6604866
That was the point of this section, though maybe it wasn't obvious enough:

Twilight leaned over the railing shoulder-to-shoulder with the larger alicorn. “There is more to a young pony’s life than studying,” Twilight quoted.

Celestia laughed. “Indeed. A lesson which was extremely difficult to teach them when they thought that they could live their life after they achieved alicornhood, not realizing that they were sacrificing what little life they had to often achieve nothing at all.”

“I see.” Twilight looked up at Celestia. “So that’s why you lie to them?”

“I simply let them believe what they wish, and let those who would aspire to eternity achieve it on their own. Though every once in a while, I give them a little nudge here and there to guide them.” Celestia winked at Twilight.

Celestia smiled gently. “You are a princess now, too. What is it that you would you do differently?”

This sentence confuses me. It should really read "What would you do differently?" That or at least take out the last "you".

Comment posted by Metemponychosis deleted Nov 5th, 2015

6604866 Yes, but they'll know what she find good, noble, etc.. and will try to live there lives that way hoping to be chosen. Most will eventually invest themselves into there lives while being chosen becoming a secondary goal to what they achieve. Others will whine and moan how they should be chosen.. but there the type to whine and moan about everything anyways.

With as long as Celestia's been alive i wouldn't be surprised if people regard her ability to do so as we might regard the presidents ability to do something. We'd be interested in the benefits but most of us know how insanely hard it would be to achieve and won't waste our lives on it.

6604947
Ahahah. Wow. That was a bad typo. Yeah, I rewrote that sentence and forgot to delete a few words. Fixed.

Eh, usually I find myself agreeing with what you're trying to say, but this time, not so much. I have to agree with Twilight on this and say Celestia is in the wrong. For one, she's choosing a few over the masses, as in, even though some will be bitter, not everyone will be, and the princess is coddling those few. We've all been told we can do anything as long as we put forth the effort, but regardless of if that's true, it doesn't mean we all aspire towards greatness. I could be a billionaire and go down in history for inventing something that everyone needs? Yeah, I think I'll just stick with my minimum wage job and enjoy life while someone else does that. Not everyone is ambitions.
On top of that, they'll still be bitter and self-deprecating anyway, it's just that now some of that will be focused on the princesses for different reasons. Okay, now when someone dies, they'll think it's because Celestia chose not to give them immortality. Fuck you, Princess. Why are you hogging all the alicorn juice? Why was I not good enough to you to be worth saving?
Also, what about an afterlife? It's hardly ever mentioned, but if more than 50% of the humans in our world believe in life after death with no evidence, I can't help but think the bulk of the denizens of magic pony land would be looking forward to some sort of heaven, and thus, not care that they are dying.
Yeah, some may be hurt by the truth, but since when does that justify lying? Even through omission? You preach honesty as one of the cornerstones from which your kingdom is built, for crying out loud! Practice what you preach, you dingbat!

6604951 Ok. But that is not what took Twilight into alicornhood. It was creating new magic. If ponies think that showing Celestia that they are noble and do things that she likes, I mean, using her as the example, ponies are shooting at the wrong target. I think that the episode itself had a confused message because to me it seemed that Twilight needed to understand the "virtues" of the Elements of Harmony in order to complete the spell, thus creating new magic (both of them necessary). Here, Twilight implies that creating new magic is all that is important. In a way, Celestia IS hiding something from the ponies and ponies will think "Meh... Too hard" regardless of what she tells them. So why not say that they are wrong, and keep saying it? One way or another, ponies can ruin their lives by trying, while half of them never had a chance because they were doing the wrong thing.

6604925 But Celestia could tell ponies that they can reach alicornhood by themselves and still teach the same lesson. Wouldn't that be better than letting them believe that she decides? Because if ponies are trying to impress her, they're still trying something that won't get them anywhere. And if Celestia needs to give them a nudge every now and them, there IS something that they are missing and she's not telling them up front. I get that the message here is that the problem is that these ponies are, in a way, "trying too hard", and they'd have better changes not even trying at all, but by letting them believe false information, she's dooming them to fail anyway, unless they figure out by themselves. In this case, I'd be pissed off she let me believe something wrong.

But now Celestia's creating even more tension by letting them believe that she can create alicorns whenever she wants.

That's a heck of a lot more controversial than telling them that the only way known is to invent new forms of magic, which sounds a heck of a lot more impartial... at least for unicorns!

Pegasi and Earth ponies still get squat. :trollestia:

6604925 "But Celestia," Twilight then had the sudden brains to ask. "What do they accomplish regardless if they all die?"

"Oh, nothing obviously! They'll just cease to exist forevers!" replied Celestia flippantly.

"But.. then life has no meaning?!" Twilight gasped.

"Nope! The universe is just trollin'!" :trollestia:

"Ermagerd. Ergzersternsherl crerserse..." :twilightoops:

6605048
To be fair, Cadance was originally a pegasus (per the expanded universe canon, anyway) before she became an alicorn.

DumbDog
Moderator

I wasn't particularly a fan for two reasons:

- The dialogue seemed off, it didn't feel real or like anything Celestia or Twilight would say. Naturally you got it hit and miss, but I wasn't able to get into the story realy because the dialogue seemed amiss. That's just my personal feelings on it.

- Two, the angst didn't feel real.

I don't know why, but it all felt unwarranted, like, "What was the point here," I asked a few times while reading.

It was a good story and a fantastic premise, but it seemed a bit, misplaced in my book.

Anyways, I do have to praise you, because while I didn't care for Celestia's dialogue, I liked what she didn't say. I really liked the implications being made and writing her as a emotionless/emotion filled ruler. She cares greatly for her ponies but doesn't show it for their own good. I think that's excellent that you did that.

Good job.

God Bless you!

6604686
I really like how you worded it

I like it. There are some points I think could be brought up, but I like how the writing phrases the question, and Twilight's answer. There's no silly excuse about population growth to withholding immortality, just a very down to earth and sympathetic view from Celestia. It also helps that she isn't withholding information, rather just not correcting their assumptions. Makes me think that if a pony approached Celestia and asked about it, she would give an honest, though warning, answer.

Twilight's answer is probably the best I've seen for these kinds of questions in fiction.

“I don’t know.”

The thing is, I don't think ponies even think about becoming an alicorn as something to strive for. As it is now, they can try for power, or they can try to strive for knowledge, or for whatever their special talent is... Equestria as a whole is, in many ways, very focused on each pony achieving their potential--or at least discovering it and recognizing it. Perhaps it's better to say discovering their passion? I mean, we've seen how important cutie marks are to ponies. Pursuing their passions is much healthier than trying to pursue a difficult dream of immortality--and since it is in no way guaranteed (it's not even somewhat likely), putting off your passion is just going to make you miss out. For those who have a passion for knowledge and discovery and magic, or who have the drive or ambition to strive for the very greatest they can be, well, they'll discover immortality for themselves.
Personally, I don't think immortality is worth it if you're not making the most of life--if you're so busy trying to get it that your life isn't worth much to you.

6605062
"But is it not the journey that matters, before the destination? A corpse cannot feel pride in its works, or regret for its failures. Neigh, the burden of caring is left to the living, the dead left with naught but apathy. It is those of us living who decide what matters, on this blank canvas that is life. Our grand painting is blank, a canvas of infinite potential and promise, left for the living to fill however we so see fit. Pointless it may be, but only before it is assigned a point." A haggard and very annoyed Princess Luna said from her bed. "Now would thee grant me a favor and get the buck out of mine bedchambers?"

"O-of course Princess Luna!"
"Oh you're no fun Lulu!"

"Just Luna, Twilight, please. We are equals now. As for you, sister, you can take your 'fun' and shove it up your rotund plot at this ungodly hour. Now would you kindly leave me to my rest?"

6605196 "Whew, at least I can feel comforted that we'll leave the world to our descendants... which I guess is something even though we won't be around to see any of it," Twilight mused.

"Until the universe runs out of energy, all particles break down, and there's a frigid cold nothingness forever!" Celestia snickered.

"HNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNGGG!" groaned Twilight in despair. "Life truly is pointless!" She gave up hope and sat around watching "Keeping Up With the Kardasians" for the rest of her futile existence.

:trollestia:

6605212
"Twilight, turn down that inane prattle lest I bring down the moon on your head instead! I am trying to sleep!" Shrieked Luna in a voice reminiscent of a choir of banchees from Tartarus.

A very nice extension of the original, especially the added bits of personal history. Thank you for it.

As for what to do... Yeah, that is the question, isn't it? The best option seems to be creating a society where everypony can fulfill their greatest potential without realizing the possible rewards that mighty come from doing so. So, basically what the diarchs are doing.

6605496
I'm glad you liked it! Funny how it ended up going from minific size to something long enough for the short story competition, sort of indicating it should have been that length all along.

6604951

Yes, but they'll know what she find good, noble, etc.. and will try to live there lives that way hoping to be chosen.

Or blackmail her. Remember how Starlight had Twilight held captive? Make me an alicorn or else. And what's Celestia supposed to do then? She can't fulfill the demand. She won't admit that she can't fulfill the demand. Even if she tried to come clean, under the circumstances it would look like a self-serving lie.

If I were Twilight, I'd tell the truth if for no other reason than to keep the ponynappers at bay. She - or any of her friends or Spike - could end up dead for the sake of a rather dubious lie.

6605632
Clearly the correct answer is, "Sure. I just have to disintegrate you first to bring you into the field of stars."

Everyone knows that's how it works, right? :V

Also, I think Celestia has actually been held captive more than Twilight has at this point. :trixieshiftright:

Still, could be an interesting premise for a story.

...Imma go ponder my existence and have a major existential crisis now.

*huddles into a ball and starts breathing rapidly and sobbing*

Great story.

All hail Princess Blueblood :trollestia:

6605632
I think I'm with Veylon on this one. If Celestia lets everyone believe that she can raise ponies to alicornhood at will and whim, then it's a matter of time* until she gets the letter: "We have them. Raise our Blessed Leader to alicornhood or we'll kill your loved ones."

Luckily TD didn't make this one too anvilicious, so we're left to debate it on our own.

* Or has it happened already? This is Enigmatic Celestia we're dealing with, so it's highly likely she's dealt with this before and simply isn't keen to clue Twilight in on it.

6605915

Luckily TD didn't make this one too anvilicious, so we're left to debate it on our own.

Well, half the fun of a piece like this is for the audience to decide whether they think Celestia is right or not, and what the implications might be. Twilight isn't sure, either, after all. :twilightsmile:

6605852
Oh, man, you're going to love Mistitled when it comes out.

Good title and concept for a one shot. :moustache:

6606055
Thanks! Glad you liked it. :heart:

6605496
Unfortunately the ponies' greatest potential _is_ ascension. I realize they aren't taking away hope, or giving false hope. But, there's absolutely no reason the people should only be empowered to die and pay taxes. Even if there was a slim possibility, that they are in fact wasting their life on a futile effort, before they come to realize the sacrifice they made for that effort was in vain.

There's more than enough room for the ponies that exit through the gift shop with nothing to show for it but a pained smile on their face and the knowledge that they were once that selfish, vain, and naive. Just because something is more trouble than it's worth, or because someone is more willing to believe a lie when presented with whatever passes for truth and consequences, is no excuse to maintain ignorance.

I guess "creating new spells" isn't the same thing as "creating new magic".

Been a while since I've seen MLP canon, so I'm not sure what distinction (if any) the show makes. I don't find it very appealing, though.

Assuming that "creating new magic" means learning how to use something external to fuel your magic (sun, moon, love, friendship), than it's useless for ponykind as a whole if no one else can replicate the feat. Cadance can use love magic with Shiny, but that seems to be a special case, and I doubt he can use it on his own.

I suppose having immortals run Equestria's political system has worked out well, but I'd think that discovering entirely new fields of magic would have a more dramatic impact.

... Perhaps it did? Celestia and Luna ending the unicorns' monopoly over the sun and moon must have been a profoundly positive move worldwide.

Anyway, I'm just not satisfied with how ascension worked in canon, so the discussion around this story is mostly moot for me. Glad Twilight's thinking, though.

Hm. I'd say it's not even a matter of hard work so much as that future alicorns seem to be predestined to ascend. All four of them have their cutie marks show up on or, in Cadance's case, as some preexisting artifact.

6604988

Okay, now when someone dies, they'll think it's because Celestia chose not to give them immortality.

I think that's actually the point; Celestia would rather they be angry/upset with her, rather than with themselves. By keeping the secret hush-hush, then the worst that happens at the end is they think she's a terrible pony, or don't think anything of it at all. But if she does tell them the secret, then several will die feeling like they wasted their lives because they chased after something they could never achieve and sacrificed living in order to do it.

Yes, either route will result in some ponies that are bitter and angry, and neither route increases the rate at which alicorns appear (yes, both Twilight and Cadence ascended within the same generation, but over a long enough period of time, the probability of that happening approaches 1), but the available empirical evidence shows that revealing the secret would induce some ponies to make choices that hold them back in life, whereas keeping it a secret would induced those same ponies to make choices that allow them to actualize their full potential.

Since neither option produces more alicorns than the other, the one that results in a greater number of ponies that are satisfied with their lives in the better option.

Putting that new Drama tag to good use, eh?

The story didn't quite work for me, probably because the idea is not something I've put much though into, or care very much about, rather than due to the actual writing (which looks good as always, TD). I quite liked the implications of Celestia talking to her parents on their deathbed, but there isn't much lasting impact for me here.

Though, if popular opinion is that Celestia makes alicorns, I wonder if any stallions accuse the princess of sexism. Four princesses and zero alicorn princes? There should be a protest!

Or worse, than their loved one only died because they failed in their pursuit of immortality.

Should be "that", I think.

Pause #43 · Nov 6th, 2015 · · 1 ·

Both options are terrible but if I had to choose I'd go with truth.

Honestly, I'd rather go out with my life being angry at myself rather than waste my entire life practically screaming "Notice me, senpai!".

6606573

Putting that new Drama tag to good use, eh?

Of course!

And I fixed the typo, too. Tch. Shame on me for not catching that before.

I'm pretty sure there's at least one terrible story out there about the shortage of alicorn stallions out there somewhere, though :V

Know what you know.

Do what you will.

Anything beyond is futile.

End of story.



...something isn't right here.

6606460
That's the sense I got too. Celestia would rather have them bitter with her than saying horrible things to themselves and their dying loved ones, as she herself did. It's at least partly a penance for that, I think.

And yes, it hurts when ponies close to her are angry for what they believe is her holding them back. Celestia knew right away that it was Blueblood talking to the newpaper. But the truth is, not even Alicorns can force a particular fate onto somepony. If they could, Celestia would be having tea with both Princess Twilight and Princess Sunset Shimmer right now.

6606580
But they wouldn't. Those newspapers are going to get tired of the story fairly quickly, I'd imagine. Like the news always does. People move on. But if you're constantly pushed forward by someone who did succeed? You're never going to let go.

Well written. Good for a one-shot.

6606460

Yes, either route will result in some ponies that are bitter and angry, and neither route increases the rate at which alicorns appear

Don't agree here. Ascension requires a secret ingredient that most ponies don't have. And one that Celestia doesn't seem to understand all that well.

But compare and contrast: Reconciling quantum theory and general relativity has so far been impossible for ALL humans who have ever lived. Many have spent part or all their lives trying only to fail. They could have spent that time being much more productive. Thus we should bury all knowledge on both subjects and stop anyone from trying ever again.

Celestia's view looks completely inane when you apply it in the real world about any number of hard problems. Humans are fine with slowly chipping away at a problem, knowing the solution may require the effort of many generations, and tat they may not live to see the final result. Ponies should be too.

6606678
Thanks! I'm glad you liked it!

It seems to have engendered some discussion, at least, which is always cool to see.

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