46. Sweet as Honey
Sure Stroke had been warned time and time again about the cunning nature of the Enchanters, the ways they would twist words and use their charms (literal and metaphorical) to flatter and steer a pony to walk straight into the unrivaled comfort of their web. Though she did squirm and blush, she could say that, in hindsight, she expected all of it.
She expected the honeyed words and flattery to go along with the smoldering gazes, brilliant smiles that made her heart race, and the feeling of smooth lips and teasing fangs brushing against her wrist, all of which had become the norm since meeting Enticier. All to butter her up so she’d consider his offer, so she’d answer the one question Madame Soleil warned her to avoid above all else.
Sitting in the soft grass a mere three steps from the beach of Lake Neighagara while sketching a scene of the beautiful falls and the ever-present mist that hung over the far shore like a cloak for the Prince of the Enchanters, however, never once entered her mind.
Enticier wore a smile she could only describe as immensely self-satisfied when he offered to carry her saddlebags for her—an offer she politely declined, of course. She was already going down to the lake with him. There was no sense letting him try to wheedle another deal out of her because he’d borne some minor burden in her stead.
His smile, though, never abated. If anything, it grew warmer and even more self-satisfied when they reached their destination and he took his seat beside her, close enough that smooth carapace brushed against velvety coat.
“I’d like to watch you draw the falls,” he reiterated his wish as if explaining the move. “Would you like me to wait until you finish to tell you about Paradise, or do you like talking while you work?”
Sure Stroke gave a casual shrug in reply. “I don’t mind either way. Whatever you like.”
There. Noncommittal, just as Madame Soleil advised. Not to mention, it put the decision back in Enticier’s hooves and made her seem only passively interested. He was up to something, that much was certain. Specifics, however, she wasn’t quite sure of yet. Regardless, he would have to make the move. Sure Stroke wasn’t going to just stumble into any word games that ended with her standing over a trapdoor—after all, was there really any doubt where he intended her to fall if such should happen?
Instead, she simply began sketching the falls. The familiar scratch-scratch-scratch of her pencil against the sketchpad helped soothe her. It was something she could control, something straightforward and true, guided along by her own hoof. Quite unlike the silver-tongued Enchanter sitting to her left.
Enticier made a little humming noise in the back of his throat that trailed off into a semi-buzzing rumble. “Well, then,” he said with a smile. “I suppose I’d like to talk. We can meet the terms of our deal simultaneously that way.”
“Seems fair.” Careful to keep her expression neutral, Sure Stroke let her gaze flit from the falls to him. A part of her wanted to press for details about the mountains, whether or not Paradise was situated near the pine forests or one of the lakes, but she stayed steadfast. She forced herself to look at the falls again, then down at the page. Sighing, she took her eraser and removed an errant line. Typical.
“Is there anything in specific you’d like me to describe first?”
She frowned. She could feel his eyes on her. He was trying to steer her to choose. Clever enough.“Well, you’ve seen how I see things here through my drawings.” Sure Stroke paused to tap her sketchpad.
The corners of his mouth tugged upward, his smile showed pointed teeth. “True,” Enticier mused. “And a lovely picture it is, to be sure.”
“Er, thanks. So, what is it about Paradise that you think of when you’re away from home?”
Those fiery orange eyes brightened. Enticier gave another hum, this time approving. And with just a hint of pleasure. The sound tickled Sure Stroke’s ears and made her swallow a bit of saliva and flutter her feathers. She fought to keep her gaze fixed on her work, taking the time to put a bit of extra definition of a line to make the ledge look steeper.
“Now, that’s a fun question,” he noted. “And makes for a bit of a balancing of the scales, so to speak. Aspire’s got you thinking like one of the villagers already.”
“I am one of the villagers,” Sure Stroke replied without hesitation, her tone carrying with it a note of irritation.
“Of course. Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply otherwise.” Out of the corner of her eye, she noticed him scratch his shin. A part of her liked to think it was a tell—that he felt awkward because of his slip.
Good. He was getting a little too comfortable.
Enticier licked his lips, then trailed his tongue down to the tip of his right fang before speaking again, “It depends on the season, really. During the winter, there’s nothing that beats the mountain trails. The snow comes down in a fine, soft powder, perfect for skiing in the daytime. You’ve seen pictures of Mount Canterhorn, right?”
“I’ve visited Canterlot before,” Sure Stroke replied. “Dad took us there to watch the Wonderbolts compete against the Westliches Reich’s Donner Fersen.”
“Ah, very nice! Well, perhaps it’s a bit boastful, but the peaks around Paradise put Mount Canterhorn to shame.” At her snort, he chittered. “I did say it was boastful, but it’s something indescribable. You’d have to see them to appreciate it properly.” Enticier gave a wistful sigh. “The hiking trails are wonderful, of course. We’ve used the same ones for centuries. Many of our guests find themselves so stricken by the Evergreen Forest, and we like to think it has a charm of its own.”
Sure Stroke paused in her sketching to laugh. “That sounds rather poetic. How often do you tell your ‘guests’ that one?”
“Only if they ask about the trails. I’ve no reason to lie to them, after all. We like to think complete honesty and freedom of expression are the best policy in Paradise.”
Memories flashed through her mind at blinding speed. She could see Aspire’s blue eyes glowing a few shades lighter, that handsome smile playing upon his lips as he charmed her to give voice to her every thought and slowly coaxed the answers out of her until she was willing to surrender her pancakes.
Honesty and freedom of expression were the best policy? Of that, Sure Stroke had little doubt. She bit back a retort, but couldn’t quite suppress a nervous twitch of her feathers. Instead, she let her sketch work serve as a distraction.
Enticier had no such intent. Sure Stroke felt his posture shift. His shoulder brushed against hers and warm breath tickled her cheek. “You’re thinking about our talent with charming when I say that,” he said.
She stiffened, her pencil froze in mid stroke. Out of pure reflex, she turned to meet his gaze, abruptly flinching away from the instant she saw those orange eyes. Were they a couple shades lighter? She beat the urge to sneak a quick look to death with a stick, and looked out across the lake.
He frowned. “We’re in Respite, Sure Stroke. I can’t charm you here without breaking the law and burning the bond between the Caretakers and Enchanters,” he reminded gently. “You’ve nothing to fear from me.”
“Nothing to fear here,” she retorted. “But not if I walked through the gates, right?”
“Technically? Not until you got to Manehattan or Canterlot. Caretaker territory covers most of the province, but the big cities are neutral ground.” He gave an awkward cough. “And that’s not quite what I meant.” She felt him lay his hoof upon hers, then squeeze her wrist. “Even if we met on neutral ground where I could, I’d never do anything to hurt you.”
Sure Stroke kept her gaze fixed on the lake. She swallowed. “Because I’m Aspire’s girlfriend?”
“That, yes. But also because you’re a nice filly, and I don’t go out of my way to harm ponies who haven’t wronged our guests, my hive, or myself. We do have standards, you know.”
“I don’t know, actually.”
Enticier chittered. “Of course. First time meeting us. My mistake.” With a sigh, he said, “But I do mean it. I’d never hurt you.”
Sure Stroke chewed on her lip. Slowly, she turned to meet his eyes. Then she looked down. “Yes,” she muttered.
“Yes, what?”
“When you said honesty and freedom of expression,” she replied, “I was thinking of how you like to charm ponies.”
Clicking his tongue, he rubbed her wrist, a soothing gesture that stole her breath away. “I believe,” he said, “you’re thinking about it the wrong way. Which is fine. You’ve heard of us from the Caretakers, and they don’t necessarily like our way of doing things because they believe it contradicts the trust ponies place in them.”
Arching a brow, Sure Stroke drew back from him. “You disagree?”
“I understand why they feel that way, but naturally, I do disagree with them.” He shrugged. “I think they should look at it as they do tasting emotions.”
Her brow arched higher. “You’re joking.”
Enticier shook his head firmly. “I’m completely serious,” he replied. “You might think our way of using charms may seem slippery and underhooved, but if you spoke with one of our guests—or, better yet, if you spoke with one of our companions, like Aunt Melody, you might see things in a different light.”
Curious, Sure Stroke put her pencil and sketchpad aside so she could give him her full attention. “No offense,” she said with a disbelieving smile, “but I find that very hard to believe.”
“Oh? Well, let me try explaining this another way. Do you mind if I ask you a question?”
“I guess that’d be fine.”
“Okay.” He smiled. “How do you feel about the Caretakers tasting your emotions?”
She blinked twice. “I’m sorry? I don’t—I mean, it was a bit strange at first, but it’s fine. Why do you—”
“But don’t you think they might use it to steer things their way?” he pressed. “I know for a fact that Queen Euphoria herself tastes visitors’ emotions so she knows how to present herself. Same with Warm Welcome and Faith.” He raised his brows meaningfully. “And same with Aspire and Esalen.”
Sure Stroke sucked in a breath, a denial fresh on the tip of her tongue.
Then she thought back. Queen Euphoria had specifically mentioned shifting her fangs away because of what she tasted. Not to mention, Aspire and Esalen organized the entire class to do the same. And how many times had they mentioned that she tasted terrible when she first arrived?
“That’s … they don’t make me do things, though,” she said.
Enticier bobbed his head from side to side. “True, true. But the most we do is simply tell you that there’s no need to be afraid to speak your mind, and we use our charms to make sure our guests aren’t burdened with such trappings like awkwardness or fear to do so.” He offered a warm smile. “It’s nice having that openness, wouldn’t you think?”
Her insides squirmed. Sure Stroke’s feathers twitched and fluffed nervously. “But that’s still …” She paused, taking a deep breath.
“It’s different,” he supplied. “And it sounds strange and frightening because you’re worried about one of us making you do something that’ll hurt you.”
“Yes.” She ducked her head. “I don’t mean to be rude.”
“Oh, no, you’re not. I’ve heard that before many times.” Enticier patted her hoof, then let go. “It’s rational, but charming does have limits. For example—” he nodded at the lake “—go drown yourself in the water.”
Sure Stroke leaped away from him as if she’d been struck by lightning, her wings flared wide, ready to fight. Her heart hammered in her chest. “What?” she shrieked.
Enticier held up his hooves in surrender. “It’s an example. See how you are right now? All that was a natural reaction, something drilled into you.” He motioned to himself. “I could charm you as thoroughly and carefully as I wanted, I could convince you that you weren’t a beautiful young mare, that you were a magnificent fish, and you desperately needed to go home to your fish friends.” His eyes glowed, but the mental tickle didn’t come. But Sure Stroke felt almost drawn into them, as if he were slowly pulling her in deeper, not to drown.
To burn. She could almost feel the fire behind his eyes spread throughout her chest.
“Do you want to know where all that stops and your body rejects my efforts?” he asked.
She licked her dried lips. Her breaths felt oddly short. Sure Stroke glanced between him and the lake, worried. But curiosity got the better of her. She nodded once.
“The moment you put your head under water,” he said seriously. “As soon as you need air, you’ll come to the surface. And your instincts won’t obey no matter how hard I tell you to swim deeper or stay down longer.” Enticier beamed, closing his eyes. “The pony mind is a very delicate, yet powerful thing.”
Sure Stroke let out a heavy sigh. Her shoulders slumped. “That was … a bit heavy.”
He had the grace to wince. “Sorry. Normally, I demonstrate by telling a pony to thump themselves on the wall. Had to use what was available.”
“Right. Well … thank you for explaining your point.”
“You’re welcome.” His teeth showed. “I hope you don’t find me so frightening, now.”
Frightening? Sure Stroke bit her lip. He was still that, and more. After all, Aspire could work his charms on her, and he was, admittedly, not on par with a full-blooded Enchanter.
Let alone their prince.
Changelings’ charms were frightening. But they were a natural part of what her friends were. Much like her own wings.
“It helps a little,” she said after a moment, “but I don’t think I’ll be comfortable with it for some time.”
Enticier’s smile didn’t falter. “I understand. Thank you for listening, at least.” He turned to look out over the lake again, then said, “Crystal Lake.”
Sure Stroke perked her ears up. “I’m sorry?”
“My favorite spot in spring and summer is the nearby lake in the valley. The waters are so clear, you can almost see to the bottom.” He turned to face her again, grinning. “It doesn’t have a waterfall or near as many fish, but it’s great for summer parties.”
Slowly, a smile spread across Sure Stroke’s face. She folded her wings and trotted back to his side, then sat down next to him again. Close enough that her shoulder brushed against his as she took up her sketchpad. “Sounds like a beautiful place. Do you mind telling me about it?”
Enticier waggled his ears. “I’d be happy to.”
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...
Right. On board with the Caretakers now. Just... sweet comical collection of expletives, dude.
Not really. Not being judged for speaking your mind is welcome. But inhibitions exist for a reason, because impulses are often suuuuper dumb, shortsighted, and self-destructive. There is such thing as overdoing it, but it's a lot easier and nastier to underdo -- otherwise we'd have a lot more drunken heroes than drunken idiots.
Now that Enticer mentions, there is one small but very important difference between using the emotions one would taste to help you get something and charming to help you get something.
If you taste emotions, even if you abuse that power to the highest extent, the only actions you're directly changing are your own. The response to you changes, yes, but only because you would be doing something different to get that response.
Charming changes the actions of someone else.
I don't like the sound of this...
Enticier and the rest of the Charmers are creepy as hell. Reading emotions and changing your own behaviour accordingly is one thing, but
OK NOPE I'M OUT THAT'S NOT OK I DON'T WANNA
Got less of a creep vibe from the prince this chapter.
Good job!
Oooohohohohoo... the things that could be said, both are hilarious and... disturbing, considering >v> certain... things.
Good chapter well done, well done.
So basically, an Enchanter's give them the ability to override the ego and let the id take control. Maybe not total control, but control nonetheless.
That's dangerous. That's extremely dangerous. After all, it doesn't take every Enchanter.
All it takes is one.
Yeaaaah no. Like a comment before me pointed, his analogy is flawed and I am pretty sure I also spotted a logical fallacy somewhere in there.
He said he wouldn't hurt her, but clearly show to have a very different definition of what is and isn't hurtful. Anything that violate the sanctity of one mind is hurtful, baring some very restricted case (like using hypnosis to help someone remember something, and even then it might be hurtful.). Inhibitions exist for a reason, and suppressing embarrassment or shyness is basically suppressing a very important part of who the pony is. Fluttershy wouldn't be half as strong as she is he she didn't have to make the choice to speak up for herself.
Plus, I seem to remember their "guests" looking like they were permanently doped up on something, so that's definitely not all they do.
I definitely dislike these guys.. . Plus, Enticier is a creep.
8245728
I think he's still going after Sure Stroke to get to Aspire, and I still don't like him, AND I honestly think he's hiding something, explicitly lying about their abilities, but you're right. He seems somewhat less slimy this chapter.
I still don't like him.
Add 8245665
I think there's more to it than "Removing the hesitation and fear". We literally have proof. Aspire got Sure Stroke to give him her pancakes. Sure Stroke would not have done that for emotion tasting Aspire unless he was starving or something similar, but did it without thinking for charms Aspire. The charm has to do something else. I think it makes the ponies charmed more receptive to commands, and THAT is not okay.
8245859
This guy knows what's up
8245839
I think this is my main problem with their worldview (or at least the one they espouse to prospective targets). "Id" surprisingly does not have the same linguistic root as "idiot", but a lot of the time it might as well.
I feel like Aspire and Esalen are probably as good as Enchanters will get. They'll be more aware of when inhibitions are bad, and that not everyone particularly wants to air all their secrets. They could be trusted to loosen someone up a bit if asked, but also watch out for them and keep them from doing anything too life-altering.
Crystal Lake..... "promiscuous" people..... is Jason gonna pay a visit in the future?
8245839
I mean, there's a reason the Caretakers warned her to be cautious around the Enchanters but to still treat them as friends. Their favored method is basically removing one's brain to mouth filter. I'm not sure why everyone is so shocked that this is the case, given that their being friendly, but dangerous has been driven home almost as much as the whole equivalent exchange in trades, pranks, and challenges thing.
8245614
8245859
You're missing a very important detail in the framing of his argument. Enticier is maybe a year older than Aspire at most. By all intents and purposes, he's a young teen putting together his own rationale for why a filly he likes shouldn't be any more afraid of him than she is the Caretakers. I think we can put the logical fallacy nitpicking aside for that, since this is hardly an internet argument where everyone likes to be an expert on everything.
8245877
Sorta off on what the Enchanters do with theirs, but making ponies open to commands is well within their abilities. To word of god for a brief moment, that's not the way they like to charm their, ah, friends. Enemies ... well, don't make enemies with an Enchanter.
8245893
The issue with your last paragraph, if I may, is that Aspire and Esalen have been raised quite differently since birth. And they still have to learn things like "don't scare the feathers off the new filly who has been afraid of her own shadow since coming to the village." Enticier has basically learned that charming ponies to speak their mind, flirting shamelessly, and lavishing his affection upon them is a good thing, so he's going to emulate that quite a bit. However, he's young enough that some things might change. Or they might get worse. Depends on how events play out.
8245987
*hides the machete* I'm sorry, what?
8245531
And people think I only write fluff, amirite?
8246383
Yeah I understand why the characters are the way they are, and I even get why Enticier honestly doesn't think he's doing anything wrong (which if anything is even creepier because it means he's likely to keep pushing it). Just that the main characters have probably learned from one hive how to positively use their talent from the other.
8246383
A Rottweiler can also be described as "friendly, but dangerous," but that isn't, I don't think, why everyone is so bothered.
Really, what it comes down to is two things, in my opinion. The first is that we know there are rules governing how Enchanters behave while in Caretaker territory, but it's not clear (to us, the readers) exactly what they are, and I think several of us are unsure if they are clear to Sure Stroke either. This makes us worried, because we have no way of knowing if Enticier (or any Enchanter) is breaking the rules except for their assurance that they aren't, unless someone else speaks up. I, at least, feel like Sure Stroke is being told to sign a contract but hasn't't been allowed to read it first, and freely acknowledge that I may just be misapprehending what is actually happening.
The second is what Abacus said in chapter 39: "While the Enchanters might have differing values, they have a long history of friendly relations with us, and they respect our laws while in Caretaker territory. That said, take care what you agree to. Unless you truly wish to make a deal with them, do not make one. Especially if the offer is visiting their resorts. Understand?"
This gives us, the readers, the impression that if an Enchanter so desired, they could simply talk circles around someone while charming them, implanting an idea in their mind — and convincing them it was their own idea all along — and then exploiting that implanted suggestion to get them to do something they would not normally do. Enticier even states (if not plainly) that he could convince Sure Stroke to attempt to drown herself, and that her mind would not reject the suggestion until she was in physical danger, suggesting to us that as long as she was not put into physical danger, Enticier could convince her to do anything. Admittedly, Enticier might be the biggest reason we think this (if we do), because his behavior towards Sure Stroke is reinforcing this idea.
Comparing charming to tasting emotions is a false equivalency: One of those compromises someone's personal agency, the other does not. Even if this is not actually the case, and it is not a false equivalency, and charming is not actually as powerful as a lot of us believe it to be, and Enchanters cannot actually convince someone to do something they would not want to do in the absence of a suggestion, that's how we've interpreted what has been presented to us so far.
Of course we're shocked.
8246383
Now, see, comments like this makes me think you don't want us to be leery/dislike the Enchanters. I'm just gonna give you a my perspective.
Pseudo/weak mind control. That's what they have. You say they won't use it on their friend except to make things open. Okay, point to you. But until this comment, that wasn't really made clear.
As if that wasn't enough, a few times before this, the writing made them out to be the True Neutral group versus the Caretaker's Lawful Good group. The Caretakers are friends with the enchanters and the enchanters respect their laws, but so far that's been told, not shown. Aspire is very uncomfortable around the Prince, who in my eyes is a little overbearing and pushes too hard. That's pretty much all the caretaker-enchanter interaction we have, so we have to base our view of them off numerous warning to Sure Stroke and dubious interaction between a Caretaker who clearly isn't very comfortable around the prince who's a little too much.
So, in conclusion, I think it's perfectly reasonable for us, the readers, to make some leery assumptions about the Enchanters. I don't want you to be upset by what I say, but it seems like you've written them into a role and are off put when we see them as that role. You might be able to see the good side of the enchanters, but we need to be shown some friendly interaction between Caretaker and Enchanter that doesn't come off as sleazy to really grasp it, I think, and at least for me it'll be hard to achieve that with this Prince.
8247115
Tbh, it's more that a lot of the logical fallacy stuff makes it seem that you guys are trying to tell me that something I'm arguing for is improper because a character framed the argument on shaky grounds. To make it clear, I'm not, but I do understand why readers are leery of him. The rest is just sort of a "Well, i did tell you guys they were scary" thing, yknow?
8247119
So you're defending them more because they have no one else who can do that? Cause that makes me feel much better. I was scared us not liking them was upsetting you, but if you're playing devil's advocate because you feel like it's not fair for them to get hate without trying to protect them, then by all means, good job. You wrote them so well that we're making you defend your own creation despite the fact that you agree with us.
I think anyway. I hope I got that right. In any case, I really like the story, and I have this burning desire to read more because I want to see this drama resolved. I was constantly smiling this chapter, simply because it felt so good for the conflict to take a more serious turn and for the treat to be so real. I hope Aspire tells off the Prince and let's him know his advances aren't welcome; since he technically hasn't done so yet, I'm still okay with this interaction, but the moment Aspire says screw off, if he doesn't bugger away I'll start the real hate for him.
8247119
Yes, you have been telling us they were scary. Again, we're right back to the Rottweiler.
You've told us that Enticier bites. We're just waiting for him to bite Sure Stroke. That is the essence of what's going on here, now that we're all convinced it's a...
Sure thing.
Gun git charmed.
8247139
To a degree yes. And I do understand the want to see more of their interactions to get more of a feel for the Caretaker/Enchanter dynamic. That's something I've given a lot of thought to since writing these chapters. I have more plans for Enticier, but I'm sort of going back and forth on giving a more in depth look into how he feels and acts after all of this.
8247215
To be honest, we could say that about all the changelings to a degree. Between Euphoria hunting and Aspire's trick in the forest, and then considering all the Changeling tests geared toward surprising/tricking/pouncing ponies.
And that's a damn fine pun.
8247298
Curious. Subject does not exhibit expected response. Possible immunity? Investigate later.
We also have to consider the phenomenon of acclimation.
Firstly, sure, all changelings can potentially be dangerous, but we've had time to grow acclimatized to the changelings of Respite. We know, at some level, that they can be dangerous, but we ignore this because we've seen that even when their actions seem malicious or mean-spirited, they are not intended to be. Sort of like how we all know that Rottweiler could bite us, but we ignore this because we've seen it play and act admonished when it's scolded for misbehaving.
Secondly, Aspire is one of our main protagonists, and we know that in his relationship with Sure Stroke, he would never do anything to willingly harm her. We see him as "the good guy," and we know that everything he knows he learned from the changelings of Respite, so by extension they are also the good guys.
Enticier, while not necessarily an antagonist, is a rival to Aspire for Sure Stroke in our eyes (whether or not he actually is). Just as we will automatically assume the best about Aspire, we will automatically assume the worst about Enticier. Enticier learned everything he knows from the other Enchanters, so by extension we automatically assume the worst about them.
Depending on how things with Enticier evolve, this attitude may change somewhat, but it's always going to be a case of "faithful dog" versus "stray dog:" You never doubt the faithful dog, despite its misbehavior, but are always leery of the stray dog, no matter how well behaved it is, until through its natural charms and charisma it worms its way into your heart and you follow it back to its resort for a life of luxury.
Or... or something....
8247333
Yes, I would agree. Acclimation to new surroundings/cultures/races is, if I might be excused for word of god-big again, the main theme I wanted to tinker with when I started this two years ago. To some degree, Enticier is a return to that original "what the what" reaction she had from way back. The difference, as you and others have noted, is in how he and the Enchanters greet new folks comptes to Aspire, Esalen, and the Caretakers. With some leeway, this is a look at the most basic of differences through the example/experiences of kids. Or at least, that was my intent. I do hope it's sort of evident, but I may not have executed it quite as well as I hoped.
8245614
I mentioned before, but that's really not as sharp a line as it looks. Take the completely non-magical example of someone putting on (subtle) makeup and perfume for a night on the town. The person wearing them will -- assuming it's not done clumsily -- will have more sway over those of her preferred gender(s). They may not consciously notice if they aren't paying close attention, but a good number of people she talks to will see her as more attractive, be more inclined to spend time with her, and to agree with what she says. Moreso if she's good at reading people and fostering the emotions that help her case. Take it one step further, and say the makeup and the perfume were chosen based on what one specific person likes; the effect is the same, but that other person has a stronger response to the woman wearing them, is even more likely to give her control of the situation.
Now consider Aspire and Esalen tasting her fear and shifting their fangs away in response. Sure Stroke didn't notice at first, but she wound up hanging out with them anyway, doing what the changelings hoped she would do. In that way, the Enchanters' charms are not necessarily more powerful than someone who's good at pushing the right emotional buttons, just faster and more accurate -- door-to-door salesmen prove that Aspire could have gotten her to give him her pancakes without any magic at all.
We don't see it as such because Carapace has (masterfully) primed us to see the Caretakers as good-hearted protagonists and the Enchanters' charms as not having an application beyond selfish desires, but that's not actually true. I'm pretty sure Caress was mentioned as sometimes using the latter to help her clients get comfortable talking about their fears, and it would take surprisingly few tweaks to the plot to cast the nymphs as dark figures luring Sure Stroke in under false pretenses.
...and Carapace and PhycoKrusk have already said essentially the same thing, but I may as well put my interpretation on here as well.
8247450
It's important that we have these multiple interpretations, even if the conclusions are largely the same; what makes sense to one of us might not to another, so the more routes we can provide from A to B, the better off all of us are.
Discussion like this is how we determine what the truth of reality is.
What a place to end!
Awesome chapter.
I wonder if Enticier could charm without Sure stroke or anyone else knowing or do something the equivalent of a charm (where no-one can do anything about it). Or parhaps he does nothing of the kind and Sure Stroke gets comfortable with him, since he is generally a nice guy. Conceivably even, meet in a neutral area where there are no rules of charming, what will happen then?
I believe you've already finished writing, (right?) so I simply wonder.
I think if Enticer truly attempts to (or even succeeds to) talk Sure Stroke into visiting (and thus permanently staying in) Paradise he will make Aspire his Enemy (with a capital E). While there may be no political ramifications (Sure Stroke was cautioned), it may well sour relations towards the Enchanters, as luring someone's marefriend away is a low-blow.
Boy were they ever right to warn sure stroke, this guy seems to know exactly what to say to convince her
Good lord I hate this guy with a passion. Everything about him is just infuriating.
8245614
The real thing to compare with is the mind-control spell Cadence uses. Practically all royalty in Equestria use mind-control spells as a matter of course, and nobody bats an eyelash that they do, only complaining about other villainy. I'm a bit surprised that Sure Stroke is as chary of it as she is compared with canon, where we have basically once where someone is chided for using mind control as a means…and it's not even then that mind control is bad, it's that mind control bypasses the intended friendship lessons.
Actually, there's one other case that readily comes to mind: pre-reform Discord is annoyed at himself for having to discord by force Fluttershy.
Equestrian morality really doesn't seem to have sanctity-of-mind as a strongly-valued tenet.
8247115
don't bring D&D alignments in; they don't work well when the alignment poles aren't actual forces that are measurable. I'll claim that "don't test, revenge is inevitable and commensurate at minimum" is not LG regardless. Like what 8247450 says…the Caretakers are not as good as they're
Hmmm...
Yep... I was right, kill em with fire. There's a reason drunken mistakes are called such... except the Enchanters' victims (yes, victims) never get to wake up with that hangover and pull themselves together. They spend the rest of their natural lives doped up and
date raped, happy little puppets. May their souls somehow find revenge in the hereafter.And I still think this little alone time was arranged (and I have not read ahead as I say that, so if I'm wrong, hey great). ...I say still because I thought that the moment 'Esalen' opened her mouth at the ice cream shop. I mean, if a new pony is really upset about the Enchanters (and good for said pony, smart pony), what better way to calm her than have Sure Stroke go along with Aspire? And what better time to test out the idea for the book: helping nervous newcomers understand that what they've trotted into, while strange, is safe and welcoming?
Except the Enchanters. Buck those guys. I dunno what's ahead, but if the fic was searching for a contrasting example to make the Caretakers more palatable for us (those few that weren't already fully on board)... mission accomplished. No, the Locust don't count; they're too easy a counterpoint.
Hate to break it to him but word games aren’t honest. Honesty isn’t just about truth but plain intentions and statements. The more convoluted and double meaning it is the less honest