The sun was already set and the moon was rising when Cimmerian was finishing his flight. In many way it was like the walks he used to take back home. It allowed him to clear his mind and flush the emotions from his system. He was still hurt that the queen would do that to him and not say a thing, but Cadance was right, the idea of the queen pulling that stunt had never entered his head.
'Not to mention Zelus looked terrible. Yelling at her would be as effective as yelling at Fluttershy. Poor mare was more confused by the animal attack than scared or hurt by it. Kept mumbling about 'it just wouldn't listen'. I'll have to check on her one last time before bed.'
The stallion made one final pass of Shadowtalon Port, coming to a halt just over the docks and staring out over the ocean. Far off in the distance, he could see another storm rolling in, this one looking pretty nasty. It was reportedly due to a bit of meteorological backlash from the local pegasi throwing storms at the Equestrian Naval ship. By the alicorn's guess it would be making landfall in about two days time.
Cimmerian took off for the Temple, following the energy the location seemed to radiate at all times, calling to him even in the darkness. There was Pandinus, Zelus, Cadance, and now Celestia all living there, and he could practically feel all of them if he opened himself to the magic in the area. He followed the signals, stopping short when he noticed a white dot on the Temple's roof.
"Shouldn't you be resting up?" he asked the white alicorn, who just turned and smiled at him.
"Shouldn't you be talking with Cadance and the queens?" Celestia fired back.
The stallion rolled his eyes and sat down heavily next to her.
"Sometimes you need to separate yourself from what's irritating you to think properly. After hearing what they did I was a bit, okay, really pissed off. Walks always seemed to help me clear my head back home, so I figured why not try a flight. It was nice. It's quiet, the air is fresh and cool, and I can fly over the beach. The sound of rolling waves has always calmed me down even more than walks, so combining the two was very helpful. Oh, and my anger tends to translate directly to them as making them eat dirt, or worse."
"It was about the two queens, correct? Cadance stopped by earlier to ask me about you, specifically anything I knew about your views on relationships. Judging by her irritation, they did something you didn't agree with and didn't tell you. Am I close?"
Cimmerian nodded, laying down next to the ousted princess and allowing her to lay against his side. It was comforting, in an alien way. He'd never really been so open to physical contact with friends before, though it could be his memories of Celestia being a sister talking.
"They swapped when I was spending some time with Din. I don't know if they'd done it other times where it wasn't obvious, but it's possible. I guess I dismissed the possibility of Din doing that during our private time, but she didn't. Said she was sharing like I asked her to. Pah, once again my wording comes back to bite me in the ass."
The mare's ears flicked at his rough language, but she nodded all the same.
"I've tried enough relationships to have been courted by other races, and sometimes we just can't anticipate some aspects of a relationship that they find important. I remember one time a griffon noble offered to take me on a date. I accepted out of curiosity more than anything, and the next thing I know we're meeting blades with him in a practice match. Not a romantic dinner, no time spent talking or cuddling. Sometimes they want to test their prospective mate, make sure they're worthy of the time. I can only imagine what kind of issues would pop up with a race that's so interconnected as the changelings."
"I know that now, and I think that's what is causing me so much grief. Pandinus even told me that she doesn't consider herself an individual. It's weird, but it sounds like I've basically become part of the hive without being linked and seeing as how they've shown the willingness to share thoughts, memories, hell, even bodies in the case of Amare and Cadance, I don't know how I should be thinking. I could accept that I don't love Pandinus, but I love her hive. That would include Zelus in this case, as they seem to think of themselves as inseparable right now. Or I could try to do that, that herd thing and keep considering them separate, but the question then becomes, 'what happens if another queen joins the hive?' How many queens would they expect me to accept in either case? What's to stop any of the other changelings from swapping out with the queens?" Cimmerian asked, shuddering at the thought of Pandinus' body kissing him and calling him daddy.
Celestia nodded.
"I suppose that's something that you'll just have to ask them. What was that last part though?"
"I realized it could just as easily be Amare or Gem swapping with the queens. That more than anything scares me. There were a few times I remember seeing newscasts about these communities that accepted polyamorous relationships, and more often than not it was because they were in trouble with local authorities. Either for not properly caring for one of their herd members or for abusing children."
At the smaller alicorn's expectant look, he continued.
"I've heard that in a few places marrying a child is considered okay, but overall Earth doesn't accept that. I just can't see a kid understanding what they're getting into. Love is supposed to be a long-term thing, something you dedicate yourself to. Is a child who may not even have reached puberty ready for that kind of experience?"
Celestia blinked in realization before grinning.
"Thus we come to the heart of the issue. You fear being seen as such by your peers. Seen as a male who pursues little fillies who are not ready for such things."
"That's part of it, but it's also a matter of being raised that way. I know you and your sister were okay with herds, hell I've stuffed the memories of Luna's herds about as far back behind that lock as I can shove it, but my family isn't. I've already lost everything that was familiar to me Tia, I'm scared of what giving up too much of myself will do to me.
"I've lost myself in them before. The memories I mean. When the gnoll raiders first hit us, I lashed out at them, wiped them out. The residents never found any trace of them, and I'm worried what I'll find if I try looking for that memory. I wasn't Cimmerian during that fight, I was Lunacae Nocturnis. I was the Princess of the Moon and those damned beasts were enslaving my ponies. I know it was the sight of my mark that brought me back, because I remember what she was thinking at that point clearly. She was wondering why she was a stallion, wondering where she was, wondering why she couldn't sense you. I've never been more terrified of those memories than I was that day, I was ready to have them ripped out of my head."
Cimmerian settled his head on the cool stones of the Temple's roof, directing an eye to the alicorn beside him.
"What do I do, Tia? How do I keep from losing what makes me, me during all of this?"
"There's no good answer I can give you, Theodore," the mare replied, drawing a smile from him at the use of his birth name. "We change every day, and I've heard of ponies getting changed to other races. Sometimes they go mad, sometimes they lose themselves in the new instincts, sometimes nothing changes but the shape of the face. The same can be said of ponies who ended up with memories that were not their own, though I don't know of any reports of both happening to the same individual. It's always been a case by case basis.
"Instead of thinking of what you've lost though, remember what you still have. You remember your family don't you?"
Cimmerian nodded and Celestia smiled sadly.
"That's more than some individuals with memory issues have. You still know who you were, still remember your old goals and your old life even if they are out of your reach now."
"There was once a pony I knew long ago," Tia recited, her face becoming solemn. "His name was Churning Nova. He was a bright young unicorn that I ended up adopting years ago, and he made quiet a name for himself. His line eventually culminated into one of the most powerful lines in our world. Twilight Sparkle is the end result of that line, if you need a reference to just how strong they became. I don't know what became of her family, but I know that once upon a time her ancestor Churning Nova went by another name.
"Even before he was Churning Nova he was a brilliant pony. The things he could do with a scroll, ink, and quill would take your breath away. Sadly, in his haste to preserve himself from death's calling the pony elderly stallion he once was made a mistake. He damaged himself during a spell gone wrong. He was experimenting with time and age spells, and ended up regressing himself to a newborn foal. A foals mind cannot contain all of the information we keep about ourselves. He both was unable to recast the spell to age himself back, and unable to teach me the spell as some of his work was damaged in the miscast. Thus I watched helplessly as his old personality slowly disappeared into the drooling foal he turned himself into. Thus Churning Nova was born, and I buried my old friend, Starswirl the Bearded."
Cimmerian pulled the mare closer to his side, hoping to give her some comfort as a few tears were shed at the memory.
"Thank you, but there is a reason I bring up Starswirl. You may have already been altered by these changes, and not even realize it. Churning Nova never reclaimed his old memories, even in the presence of old friends or mementos. But do not despair as you still retain much of your old life. Changing and adapting to the situation is fine. I understand you may feel you are betraying your family and the values they taught you, but I also ask that you keep in mind several things.
"First, relationships are give and take. Yes you've given the changelings much, but our subjects will always need more. It's something I learned long ago and it's why I held court even though I didn't need to.
"Second, which I'm glad to see you following already, just because you think you understand how a role works for your species doesn't mean another species sees it the same way. Pandinus is a changeling, and thus the hive is more important to her than her own life. If she were to pass on, I'm certain she would want you to protect and preserve it in any way possible, including taking Zelus as a substitute queen and lover. It may sound strange to you, but that is a mother's love; we put our children ahead of ourselves.
"Finally, don't be offended if your mate does something that you don't agree with but didn't know they were capable of. I found out the hard way that dragons sleep for very long lengths of time, and lost several friends to that long slumber. Sometimes a dragon wakes up, and a chance encounter just isn't remembered. Sometimes, as much as it hurts us, those we speak with and interact with just can't remember everything about us, and may end up hurting us again. That is why patience with those we love is so important. It allows us to take those wrongs, to accept those accidental betrayals and mistreatments and give them a chance to seek forgiveness. In some cases though, it allows us to forgive without ever letting our other know we were wronged."
Cimmerian nodded as he stared off at the sleeping town. The tiny town growing around the Temple wasn't anywhere near what he'd call a city, but the locals seemed to have a different gauge for such things.
"I'll talk with them, I'm actually supposed to meet the queens and Cadance tonight. I'm sure they're already waiting for me. I mean, If I can sense you from a distance, I can only guess that Din could pick me out from several miles away. Don't stay up too late, Tia. Recovering alicorns need their beauty sleep. That, and if you stay up to late I'll throw you in the nursery. Put Mirage in charge of your sleep schedule. You can play, take naps..."
"Do I get snack time?" she asked with a giggle before nodding in agreement. "I'll be headed to bed shortly, you go work things out with your mate and her hive. And if you're still interested in a marriage, I can help you set one up. I can run it as either an elder or a family member of the groom. I'm surprised no one warned you about marrying under another ruler. Sometimes such things are considered bad luck, while others will take it to mean you submit to their rule."
"Well, I'll have to see if a marriage is even something Din would want at this point." Cimmerian said with a laugh as he rose to leave. "I'll think about it, I should see how the conversation goes first. Thanks Tia."
<-(0)->
Once more the stallion found himself sitting at a table with the queens across from him. To his left sat the nymph form that currently contained the mind of Cadance, and apparently his marriage counselor. The stallion was breathing deeply, keeping himself as calm as possible to avoid causing any undue stress to the changelings. It was hard, but he didn't want to cause them any more trouble.
Cadance was about to speak, beginning the meeting when he raised a hoof, calling for attention.
"The first thing I'd like to do is apologize. Pandinus and Zelus, I know I shot you two a nasty blast of anger and fear earlier, and I'm sorry. I'm not used to watching my emotions, and sometimes I let them go out of habit. Will you forgive me?"
Pandinus nodded.
"After Cadance's lecture, I figured you may have been upset even if I didn't know why, so I was prepared. I shielded myself a bit, and didn't take the full brunt of your mood swing."
"I was hurt by it a bit. I didn't know you were capable of having your mood switch so easily and was open to it. I'm still a bit bubbly inside from the anger, but it's settling. I should be fine in another hour," Zelus offered.
"So you're going to have to make that up to her," Pandinus said with a playful smile, pulling a smile from his own face. If nothing else, Din was still being playful.
The stallion schooled his expression, looking at the two queens stoically.
"The first question I have is, what am I to the hive?"
The queens traded a look before they hissed and clicked out a series of unrepeatable sounds, their wings buzzing during at least half of the title. Cimmerian and Cadance both stared in curiosity at the queens, waiting for a translation. Pandinus provided it.
"Few would be able to understand the word anyway, as we made it up ourselves earlier. There is no real word for mate as you ponies describe it. So the title is a combination of things. Bounty, cloak, spear, safe, trusted. There is no one word, no one title that can name all that you do for the hive, Cimmerian, and there is no title for the position you fulfill. Thus we had to make one. We will be sharing it with the hive, and hope you accept it. For now, we will officially use the Equestrian term hive-father."
Zelus smiled softly at the alicorn.
"You are not the only one who spent your time thinking. We have discussed much as well."
"How do you see us?" Din asked.
"I, I see two changeling queens, one who I know and have come to care for deeply, and one who did her best to guard me, even though she had no idea what she was doing. One is also the mother of my children, and I wouldn't hesitate to do anything to keep her safe," Cimmerian answered, looking at the two mares.
"We both sorted through what Cadance and Sapphire could provide us about how ponies see individuals, hoping to learn where the disconnect was," Pandinus explained, looking to her hive-sister for a moment. "We are not as you see, Cimmerian. We may have been hatched from separate hives, but we are both hive-mother to the Shadow Hive. Your hive, your ponies, already call you Father, and to our hive you are the Father of the Shadow Hive. In the case of our children, we ask that you treat them as you always have. As your own."
"We are writing our own traditions now, attempting to find something that works for us, something that we can understand and at the same time that uses a little of what you've given us," Zelus continued, the two in an almost eerie synchronization. "But just as you do not see us as we are, we are not certain how to view you. You are, complex. We have one goal, the betterment of our hive. You have many goals. The raising of your young, the improvement of those around you, your own comfort, the health of your mate...you pursue all of these separately from what we have seen, seeing to each task as a way to help it becomes available. We find it silly, but we cannot argue that it does bring about results. Your, lateral approach to some issues is also strange to us. We have always been taught to either overwhelm a problem or subvert it. You asked if it was really a problem. You took the problem of 'changelings feeding on your ponies to avoid starvation' and turned it into 'changelings providing for ponies who provide for changelings.' We find this important, and do not wish to lose it, to lose you."
Cadance waited for a moment, noting that the queens were finished in their explanation before turning back to Cimmerian. The stallion nodded to her and voiced his next concern.
"My next, issue is about your ability to swap. There are a few questions it brings up and I need answers."
The queens motioned for him to continue.
"How many queens do you uh, intend to link with?"
"As many as we can, though not all of them will be of this physical hive. If you worry about how many will be here with us, with you, I do not think it will surpass three or four at any given time, unless we convene for a sort of meeting. That may be important actually, I'll have to remember that," Pandinus mumbled, her distraction passing the baton to her hive-sister.
"If you wonder how many we will ask you to provide for, it would not surpass three. If your seed isn't viable for proper hive expansion, we can't use it that often anyway. It will no doubt be in demand when breeding new queens, but drones would take too long. Which leads us to our next problem. If Pandinus is any sign, we need to be able to harvest from other sources to expand the hive at an increased pace."
Cimmerian's wings twitched, the stallion suppressing his desire to be outraged. Logically it made sense and the queens were being nothing if not logical about this whole ordeal. He watched both mares across from him shuffle a bit, likely tasting his flashing emotions. The alicorn shook his head in frustration. Zelus still called it harvesting; there was no emotional investment when they mated. He'd have to swallow his pride here and try to be logical as well. Even if it went against everything he knew.
"I, I accept that," he ground out, causing Cadance's jaw to drop. "I also want to be informed of any and all beings who have 'access' to your swapping. I don't mind you swapping among one another, but I want to know if someone new tags in. I also reserve the right say no if I feel it wouldn't be appropriate."
"What do you mean not appropriate?" Din asked him, a smile forming on her face as an answer to an old question was being presented. " This is one of your causes of discomfort, is it not? Please explain."
Cimmerian drew an unsteady breath before explaining as best he could.
"I can easily see anyone in your hive swapping with you at any given time, and it bothers me. I don't want to find out one day that one of the ones who used your form was, was a small child or something like that. It's a crime back home, and I'm not touching that with a ten foot pole. It's just, I can't risk have that happening."
Pandinus and Zelus both blinked in confusion while Cadance blanched at the idea before offering the stallion an apology
"Oh stars, I didn't even think about that. I'm sorry, Cimmerian! Here I am, an adult alicorn in the form of a foal and, oh wow..."
"You worry about a nymph trading, or being exposed to such things?" Zelus asked. "Why would they be exposed to that? It would do them no good. Nymphs are not developed enough to understand what is happening. To do such a thing would be a waste. It could also be dangerous, as the emotions present are powerful. Their mind could be damaged. Such swaps will not be allowed among any but queens, both for their safety and to promote the drones' pursuit of other sources of love."
"We are also aware of your, need for a mate as other species define it, so we have agreed that we will keep a designated queen for you," Din said with a suddenly bright smile.
"Pandinus has, of course, volunteered her body for such a position," Zelus said, giving her hive-sister an even look. "On top of her growing mental attachment to you, it is also because you have the greatest emotional investment in her, as she currently carries your young. Depending on how her second pregnancy goes, we will review your viability as a mate. As it stands though, you are not a proper source for drones."
The dark alicorn stared at the armored queen's clinical dismissal of his 'viability' before stifling a laugh. It was somewhere between insulting and humorous, but he wasn't certain how he should feel about it. It almost sounded like those people who spent all that time breeding pokemon for the proper traits and statistics.
"We also want to limit the number of changelings directly exposed to your most potent love, that which you express during mating, until we learn more about its effects. We don't want the entire hive to end up addicted to it, and we don't think you do either," Din said. "So even if we find another queen, we're going to keep her separated from our chambers for now. That way we have at least one queen that is unaffected by this oddity."
"Heart?" Cimmerian guessed.
"She is...unwell," Zelus stated, the queens looking a bit uneasy. "Her mind is fragile right now, and she has a very powerful attachment to the dragon she was with. I don't think she would survive being separated from him at this point. No, we speak of Amare and Pandinus' odd hatchlings. If one is a proto queen, we'll have more to work with, but until then Amare will be kept separate from you after her final molt."
"We need a queen that we know will be able to carry on in the event of your death," Zelus continued with a nervous buzz of her wings. "If Pandinus and I are truly addicted to your love, than we may not be able to. Such an event would be catastrophic to the hive even without an assault from the Mad Queen."
"I told you I hated how you made me start planning, Cimmerian," Pandinus told the dark alicorn. "I've even begun running scenarios of how the hive would continue in the event of each important being's death."
"Finally, my sister's actions have left me burning," Zelus stated, shooting a glare at her hive-sister. "My body is trying to use seed that isn't there, and with the deaths of several hive members in combat, we have felt a need to replenish the hive's numbers. It was kept at bay with the influx of drones that readily submitted to our link, but a queen still needs to expand her hive. Pandinus told me this was going to be the oddest thing, and we weren't expecting you to accept it. I need to start harvesting soon. I would prefer tomorrow, but I'm willing to wait a few days if you require time."
Cimmerian chuckled to himself before turning to Cadance.
"So miss marriage counselor, what does your knowledge of love and happiness say about a marriage with a changeling?"
Cadance winced at being called out but managed to try to give Cimmerian a smile.
"I know it's weird, but I think if they, I mean...okay it's not really marriage to a changeling queen so much as marriage to a hive. I think the drones work differently, and they're willing to attach themselves to one partner, but the queens have a different drive. I asked them earlier, and they don't have a word for marriage. The closest word or phrase they have translates to 'swan song' in Equestrian. To bind themselves to a pony is considered to damn the hive, as it minimizes the variation in the queen's drones."
"Don't be too upset, Cadance. Your information about pony culture has given us something to work with in regards to understanding Cimmerian's drive," Pandinus said, attempting to comfort the alicorn-turned-nymph. "I didn't realize it was a priority for him to see his bloodline continued. It is similar to my drive to expand my hive, and to birth a proto queen. To learn that the reason males mate is because of such a reason was something we'd never considered. It just wasn't something we cared about."
"There was also the thing about pheromones, sister. I didn't know about the attachment thing," Zelus said, nudging Din. "Ponies don't use pheromones as actively as changelings. Thus we don't recognize some of your binding signals that would cause two ponies to become attached to each other after mating. Changelings are already as attached to each other as possible, so pheromones are not as important for identification, just general communication, and it is often only from a queen to the drones. A content queen releases pheromones that tells her drones she is doing well, and they relax upon picking up those signals. A distressed queen releases different pheromones, agitating the drones and making them naturally more alert."
"So what do my pheromones say to you?" Cimmerian asked in genuine curiosity.
"It doesn't mean anything in particular actually. It's just something we've come to associate with food, shelter and a feeling of safety," Din answered. "It may not even be your love that's doing this to Zelus, it could very well be your pheromones. I molted into a queen already being exposed to them, while she was already a queen for her first exposure. We just don't know at this point. If it is the pheromones then there's not much we can do aside from keeping additional queens away from the Temple."
"Wait," the stallion said, holding up a hoof. "Is that why you get mad when I change the sheets?"
Both changeling queens nodded in unison.
"Sometimes the new ones still retain some of the pheromones, but they're thickest in the air after you mate. It's relaxing, and makes us feel calm. I could likely bring one of your blankets and be able to sleep soundly in Canterlot," Zelus estimated.
"Alright, I have a question of my own," Cadance interjected. "Why do you two sound so, clinical all of a sudden. You're both usually a bit more identifiable by speech and personality."
Once more the queens traded a look before speaking simultaneously.
"We spent a good portion of the day closely linked to each other while working out what was causing difficulties in the Temple. We are more synchronized than we care to admit right now. We are certain it sounds strange, but it feels stranger still. We have never been this attuned to another queen before," they finished, shaking their heads.
Cadance shuddered at the echo in the queens' voices while Cimmerian stared a them in awe. That kind of synchronization was amazing, he could easily admit that.
"But will this have any long term effects on the two of you?"
"Again, we don't know. We've been actively pushing each other to speak first so we don't end up doing this," they said in stereo. "We are hopeful that having different schedules for the next few days will allow us to desynchronize a bit more than a different reaction to a comment or one of us finding humor in something the other doesn't find funny. As with many things we've been coming across here at the Temple, no changeling has ever heard of such things happening before. We are exploring uncharted territory for our species, both in working with other races and in working with each other."
The group waited a few moments for any more question to be raised. None were forthcoming, so Cadance nodded and stood up.
"I'd suggest holding these meetings a few more times in the future, just in case anything else comes up that needs answering."
"You wish for us to do this again?" the queens asked. "Why? Have we not covered everything of importance?"
"No, she's right," Cimmerian said. "We've tried working things out, and given ourselves some rules, but we may need to adjust them. Thanks for pulling us into this, Cadance. I hope it helps."
Cadance nodded happily.
"So do I, Cimmerian. I didn't really know what they were talking about when they said you tasted bad when you were upset, but I kind of understand it now. It's not very pleasant, and I can't imagine it being any better when the emotion is focused on an individual changeling."
"Speaking of which, Zelus is owed some additional attention, don't you think?" Din said while looking to the stallion, both queens smiling happily.
"Fine, but give me a day or two to get used to this before you girls try anything. Besides Din, Zelus can't play with us that way. She's going to be the hive's designated egg layer, remember?" Cimmerian reminded them, gesturing to the armored changeling.
Zelus huffed in irritation as she circled the table.
"That doesn't mean you're not relaxing to be around. Just as you enjoy Pandinus' purring we enjoy your warmth and scent. Now come, it's been a long day. We must be up early tomorrow for the griffon and pony ceremonies."
With a shove from her snout, she started pushing Cimmerian around the table, where Pandinus was laughing gleefully.
"Oh, Cadance had this wonderful memory of directing misbehaving ponies, and it seemed to work no matter the age," the smaller queen giggled. "I wish to try it!"
Before the stallion knew what was going on, Cadance whispered an apology and bolted out the door. The next moment, Pandinus was pulling him by his ear down the hallways, Zelus prodding him forward with a poke from her horn every now and again.
"Ow, ow ow, dammit, stop it! I'm perfectly capable of walking!"
About halfway to Queen Pandinus' chamber, she released him, his irritation burning brightly enough to not be worth the amusement. The three of them climbed up onto the mattress and settled in for the night, Pandinus taking her spot on his back while Zelus buried herself into the crease between his shoulder and barrel. Cimmerian felt his muscles going limp at the vibrations of the purring and the echo from the bed, and easily draped a wing over the armored queen. She snuggled a bit closer, mumbling something about forgiveness before dosing off.
'I'll get her for exposing them to that idea,' Cimmerian vowed as he drifted off to sleep. 'Watch your back Cadance. I will get you for that.'
"Do I get snack time?"
That was fun, may I have another? Looking forward to more.
Keep up the good work. Deus tecum.
Quite interesting seeing him try to accept whats going on. I wouldnt have ever guessed the swapping thing was a possibility in any way till this story.
still good though
Snack time is best time.
This chapter's title gave me flashbacks ROFLAMAO!
PS: I just realized this is chapter #80, CONGRATS!
s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/17/5b/bd/175bbdec39c2ba451ca0a41941804912.jpg
That chapter name brought back all kinds of awkward memories lol.
Also Celestia is already best-pony again.
Could have just avoided this entire thing by having Zelus not get attached to Cimmerian that way. There would have been some playfulness, some resentment, but the Hive needs a designated Mother, and with the odd way Cimmerian breeds, that was always going to either be Zelus, or one of her sisters. If you really wanted to throw someone else into the loop you had an emotionally vulnerable Cadence, and Pandinus trying to help... yeah, there's a lot of different ways that could have gone. I guess that's why you have to plan these things out.
You know, I was actually starting to like Pandinus and Zelus before all this shit started happening, and I disliked both of them when they were introduced.
You have a real talent for making unlikeable characters, even from ones that you somehow managed to turn from unlikeable to likeable.
It's really unfortunate.
I find that I really like your version of Celestia, but that makes me wonder what kind of shit you're going to pull to make me dislike her.
6908763 I don't thin that they've become unlikeable, I just believe that they now have some more of their personalities brought into the light as well as some new habits that come from being Changeling Queens in close proximity and all. You also have to always consider that they have a different psychological aspect to their species since the 'hive' is omnipresent with them and all. Besides all of this , they're still pretty likeable, at least to me. What do you find unlikable about them, which cause you this distress?
I now officially only care about the side characters.
fuck
I'm kinkshaming.Huh.
I'll be honest, this whole shared hive thing feels a little at odds with Pan's apparent personal attachment to Cim as shown in the chapters leading up to the last couple. It feels like backtracking.
There are precedents for accepted polygyny in some human societies. Bin Laden had five wives and twenty-ish kids and up to four wives is legal in Saudi Arabia, so there is your human/herd corollary. Just a thought.
Whether the author reads this or any other people who have a misunderstanding of polyamory.
This link should help: More Than Two
Heh a story where people are talking about their problems open and mature way. Damn this is rare and awesome!
6908879
Maybe, but do remember she was a broken Queen without hive earlier, now she has a hive and fellow Queens. Who knows what that is doing to her psyche, and when you look at this clinically it could be that having Cimmerian start to direct love towards hive in general is a sound thing to do.
Pan offering to take a bit of a backseat would be very strong move. Do note how he is now named Hive Father and his position as loving father was mentioned.
"HEY, are you tired of real loved ones cluttering up your life where you meet them and it's actually just em' and you actually get to know someone? Get on down to real fake wives; that's us! Well fill your whole life up with em. See, watch, check this out. That one just switched personality on a whim. This one also isn't stuck being who she is. Not this one. Also not this one. No changeling queens do that! Changling queen mates is our website, so check it out for some really great deals on fake peeeeeeooooopllllllle!"
"...What did we just see?"
"Oh, that was one of the marketing drones. The changeling hive keeps trying to find better ways to offload all their queens onto new seed. Because... you know... willing partners work out better."
"Oh... why is he just standing there?"
"With their huge population spikes, there really aren't enough queens to deal with the true drones. That is why you see them just standing around sometimes if they aren't doing simple, repetitive tasks. He'll move when she needs him to."
"Wait, there he goes."
"Huh... he didn't even wait for an answer."
"Hey everybody!"
"AH! Oh god, it's another one."
"This is my hive! Just made a meal: shock and surprise. Still here. Still selling fake persons!"
"What?!?"
"Oh my god, it's still the commercial."
"We have fake persons... like you wouldn't believe. What are you worried about? Come get a fake wife. Call us up, and order some fake love and compassion today. Don't even hesitate, don't even worry, and don't even give it a second thought. That's our slogan, smell it in the pheromones, though you can't. I just smelt another slogan, right next to that one. What are you worried about, come get a changling queen! Get in here quick, ... Get out quicker, with an arm of changeling in your arm..."
"He just keeps talking. Hey, do you think just walking away would work?"
"I don't really know."
All nearby drones began to speak in time with the marketing drone. It seemed like a good idea to them at the time.
I mean really, is it that hard to get a 5-6iv Alicorn these days? pretty sure he's a spec attack build, so modest nature, maybe timid? though given alicorn durability maybe gear it to be a wall build? recover, dark pulse, taunt and protect? throw on a leftovers?
at least we have some "dittos" to work with on getting the more optimal alicorn.
Even if Din does not see herself as an individual in the hive, she still has very individual traits. I think you might want to make sure the hive is not morphing too much from the original vision.
I feel what the hive is has slowly changed since this story started. I see you are developing your ideas on it, but the slight inconsistency is wearing on me.
I could see Cimmer not responding well to this as the time approached and just "nope" on out. Zelus would have to use one of her pegasus guards.
Not as much comment here, I am tried.
As long as they are willing to talk about their relationship and keep an open mind that is all I ask.
Zelus might grow on him, and then again she might not.
You can never really tell who you will end up falling in love with, and yes you can fall in love more than once.
I can see why people have bad views about polygamous relationships.
Those shows and news stories do paint bad pictures.
However most news worthy stories are meant to be bad to get ratings
Last thing: polygamous relationships get a bad rap now, but just remember it was not too long ago that homosexuality and pedophilia were thought to be fairly close as well...just food for thought.
I followed your link to the Wikipedia article. If you ever want to get depressed, reading about that kind of fuckery will do it real quick.
Polyamory does tend to get a bad rap because of those people, even though polyamory is said to differ from polygamy. I'm friends with three people who are happily in a poly relationship. She has two boyfriends and they all live together. I've always found the idea sound, though it seems that rarely the people attempting them in the past have had noble intentions.
6908903 +1 for More Than Two
Reykan, did you get the ear biting idea from the story
by Hiver?
Allow me to explain what I was saying before because I feel like it might sound a bit inflammatory:
I counted the chapters between when Pandinus was introduced and the first time when... mating happened between them(since they haven't officially married that's the best I've got). It was something like 30 chapters for Ted to warm up to a changeling queen and accept her as a mate. And now we're just supposed to accept that this far into the story he's going to accept mating with ANOTHER changeling queen inside of like 2-3 chapters? It just feels like a PSA on Polyamory compared to the 30 or so chapters it took for Ted to warm up to Pandinus.
I feel like in your attempt to justify Polyamory you've skipped a step or two on the whole relationship thing. And that's the biggest problem I have with polyamory in a story, I don't feel like you're detached enough from the characters to think something like "relationships take time" when you're thinking "I gotta push polyamory like I'm getting paid for it". I appreciate that you've done some research into it but again I feel like you've left out the relationship part of the polygamous relationship. Its not just like glue to stick more than two people together.
(I'm leaving what I said previously down here because it does help people get an idea that I don't like this sort of relationship)
I really don't like Polygamous relationships in stories, from a dramatic standpoint I feel like they just suck any and all drama out of the story. Why are we bothering with this relationship stuff when we can just have an unlimited number of people in a relationship. It annoys me because why don't you just put EVERY main character into this relationship? Every author that I've seen try this seems to think like its the golden mean of relationships and no problems will arise from it. If I'm reading a romance I'm reading it for the romance, not for your views on polyamory.
You're either an author, or you're a polyamory advocate, you can't be both because one way or the other you're either going to step on the story bits or the polyamory bits. You shouldn't be writing for political reasons like that unless it is the main focus of the story when clearly it is not.
I am offend
6908794 How about blithely deciding that they're going to rape Cimmerian through body-swapping? Deciding that he's going to breed with other queens without his permission, consent, or even knowledge? Deciding entirely without his input that he's going to have a harem of changelings that he doesn't even know (and that they don't know either) in the future because that's what they want, and they don't even stop to consider his feelings or needs?
All of those are tantamount to rape (or planned rape), and it's not kosher. At all.
That, and Pandinus has gone from being only interested in harvesting love and "seed" to learning what love actually is back to only being interested in harvesting again. It's another huge turnoff to the character I was actually coming to like, and to the story in general.
6909007 For me, it's not about a polyamorous relationship. Those are fine, so long as it's with everyone's consent, and everyone is happy. It's the rape and complete disregard for Cimmerian's wants and needs that bother me.
6909054 Polyamorous relationships can be done well, as there are lots of ways to invoke interest and drama without throwing stereotypical jealousy into the mix. If you do it well, you can even use the stereotype by playing on readers' expectations and then pulling the rug out from under them. It's doable, but it requires the author to explore the characters in enough detail that readers understand their thoughts, motivations, and emotions. Use other emotional issues to introduce drama, both internal and external. Struggling against societal expectations, or honest misunderstandings between people, or abusive actions and attitudes, or even issues completely external to the relationship that get in the way and require everyone involved to deal with.
The problem here is that there's no proper buildup. The changelings' wanton disregard for Cimmerian, the emotional and physical rape, both planned and actual, and his allowing himself to be walked all over completely ruin it, in this case.
Poly relationships can be done well in fiction; this just isn't one of those instances.
I have to say I don't like this chapter very much. This wasn't compromise, this was someone betraying their values. Before this chapter I was actually rooting for Zelus and him to get together, but not like this. He doesn't even like her enough to add her to the herd but he just goes and does it?! It seems like he is just a walking mat and no one is taking his side. He has changed more than anyone.
I... hesitate to comment, but I feel I need to say something to offset what I unintentionally kicked off last time.
Um... Something? I really have no idea what to say... So I'll just try and wing it.
This was a nice exploration into changeling society as it begins to develop, as well as pushing the limits of their abilities in new and interesting ways. Your idea that unprocessed freely given love can be addicting made more sense every time I think about. I get a nice laugh out of imagining changelings as always stoned out of their minds around Cimmer.
I liked the synchronization thing you displayed here between Din and Zelus, being another point to consider the consequences of exploring changeling abilities perhaps a bit too far. After all, they may do that one day and find themselves unable to de-synchronize.
I'm really curious to see what else you've got up your sleeve for changeling integration into pony society, or perhaps the other way around.
The goal should to find a different source for Zelus than getting Ted to accept her. IDK I feel like he is giving more than he is getting here.
Thanks for writing this story I have enjoyed it very much
Cimmer I think could look on the hive as being not fully integrated, but Animal farm integrated, as in totally seperated between queens and drones, the Queens as a ruling hive and the Drones as the working hive and no in depth perfect relation between the two, and so the seperation between drone and Queen production is more acceptable, so Cimmer gets Queen, Queen, the other queens get the job of Queen Drones, and the Drones supply the foundations for the support of the hive?
Did Din say they had Supervisor Drones at all? Like how you have grunts and sergants? Where instead of the Queen having to direct control all the drones at the time, they can detail control fewer intermediate Supervisors, who then, due to lower work load, can coordinate a small group of drones more efficintly? If Din doesnt have these, would the influence of Cimmer lead to such. Then again, theres the nursery and such, so most likely Im just forgetting the details already.
I've got to wonder if the changelings might expect him to mate with a proto-queen that he sired. I mean, probably not, but the thought came to me shortly after they mentioned one might come from Din's pregnancy.
Wow. Well that's not nightmare fuel or anything.
The Bad
It seems like Ted just gave up on his opinion. After the queens explanation he just sort of stopped asserting his side and gave in.
Even the conditions he stated were either unrelated or outright rejected. He has clearly asserted that he only wants an intimate relationship with Din but was told no you will be with as many queens as we need you to be.
The condition that Din's body will be his mate blatantly ignores the fact that if Ted only wanted Din's body then he would have just taken her any of the times she offered herself to him before their relationship began. I see no compromise from this conversation just one side giving in and that is no way to build a strong relationship.
The Good
These new bits of information about how the changelings view Ted are fascinating as well as the fact that they have no inherent concept of marriage outside of suicide.
I like the talk with Tia it goes a long way to show her recovery and I hope she can become a confident for Ted in the future.
The joke at the end went a long way to brighten the dreary mood.
Overall
That’s about it overall I was rather unsettled by this chapter. It had its good parts but it really does paint a bad picture for the future of Ted and Din's relationship. Ted being dragged along by the queens seems like some pretty epic foreshadowing. Its rather foreboading after the conversation they had.
Recomendations
Ted needs some friends, he is on generally good terms with everyone but he needs someone he can interact with that isn't directly related to his position. Someone he can bitch and moan at about how much it sucks to be him and bounce ideas off of without worrying about diplomacy. Someone he can feel completley comfortable around with no strings attached.
Huh... This "not-really-an-individual" thing doesn't feel consistent with what we've seen of changelings in earlier chapters. Many of them showed very clear traits of individualism, Pandinus included. What we're seeing now doesn't quite jive with what we saw then.
It honestly feels a bit like you've added a changeling trait that didn't really exist before but does now because reasons.
Or maybe I'm just not perceptive enough to pick up on whatever hints you may have dropped before, idk.
6909007
...So was any kind of sex that didn't result into pregnancy.
Also, that comment made my day, thank you for that sir (or whatever you identify yourself as).
6909192 Look again. They thought that his consent had already been given. They were mistaken. That's not intentional rape.
Direct quote from the previous chapter:
... You know, given the situation...
Why doesn't Cimmerian just abbandon the concept of being Padinus partner in the first place?
Don't get me wrong, they are a cute couple and all that, but this can't really work out in the long run without Cimmerian entirely loosing his values.
I mean, what's he to do? The queens pretty much told him flat out that Din will cheat on him non-stop anyhow.
What's to stop him from, IDK, just taking on Mirage instead?
Drones are capable of monogamy, apparently, and I'm sure a drone would be capable of understanding that once every year, shehas to allow it for a night for the good of her own hive, which might acceptable terms to start out with (though Cimmerian should ask Celestia for an Anti-STD spell, just in case)...
(...Yeah, I am aware I just want Theo and Mirage to get together somehow... I mean, she'd be the changeling he's known the longest and she's been helping him with the whole changeling stuff despite her dislinking Pandinus and all that, and what better moment to get this started than the realization that Theo can't get a marriage with a queen without having her constantly cheat? I also think Mirage needs more screentime, she was awesome whenever she was around^^)
So yeah... just have Cimmerian dump Din as an actual love intrest. His personal situation doesn't get better if he doesn't. Wouldn't even surprise me if he turned to the "have two Nightmares kill each other"-Strategy even if he would otherwise survive if he needs to put up with Din's shit until the showdown.
6909538
I'd agree with you on this. The level of connection and supposed individuality or lack thereof (beyond the categories of drone/changeling/queen) has only been directly addressed in recent chapters. While it does make for an interesting read this whole issue did spring up without much warning.
So Twi is a descendant of her favorite wizard of all time.
Changeling matting customs, handle with care...
He should create 'sun chips' and 'moon pies', i'm sure Celestia and Luna would get a kick out of it.
6909538 From what I'm understanding, it's not that they literally have no individuality, but that they do not, or do not consider themselves to, have an identity that is separate from their being part of the hive. That is, they exist partly as an individual and partly as a piece of the hive, and any consideration of them that does not take into account that their existence is fundamentally intertwined with the hive is going to be wrong.
Pandinus has said that changelings don't have a culture as such, but I think that they do have culture insofar as this is concerned: their fundamental level of connection with the hive is enhanced and reinforced by cultural perception. Additionally, the queens appear to feel this connection more strongly than their subordinates, perhaps because they are the ones coordinating everyone else.
I can see why you did this, but I don't like it much. You rushed the polygamy, making the relationship not feel quite right. In essence, this development has become a world building and exposition tool. It wasn't even done all that smoothly, so the lack of acclimation stands out even more and notably disrupts my suspension of disbelief. I have no problem with what you've done, but I think you certainly could have executed the developments better. Give and take is a double edged sword. The books must be properly balanced or everything starts falling apart. No matter. If anything, this a chance to explore what you can and can't do well, as well as to improve. You have a fair amount of literary talent and this story has been well written, so I have no doubt that you can turn this little stumble into an epic break dance. I look forward to future installments.
6909596 Their entire lives revolve around reading other beings and knowing about them in order to trick them into giving them love. They're even incredibly sensitive empaths. I doubt the queens are that monumentally stupid.
You did pretty good with presenting different sides of the issue on this chapter. I still don't feel like there was any hard conclusion to it though. Cimmerian never really agreed to the terms, but it was implied that he was kinda just going along with it. Which again, in these sensitive situations, doesn't consist of consent. He did consent to the switching, but not of the whole marrying a hive thing. Not sure if I just missed some details in the muck or if it really was a bit vague there.
It also could be that you intended it to come across that he's still pondering it himself and so he hasn't come to any solid conclusions. It does seem to be that he's leaning towards accepting the role of "hive-father" though. And I kinda wish he does. XD
6909054
Gotta say, that's a pretty impressive display of ignorance.
Hmm... not to happy with how Teds feelings were kind of blown aside. I don't think he should have just agreed with everything. He's gone from good character to door mat in one chapter. This seemed more about satisfying the changelings.
(Sry for mah bad english.
I rarely leave any comments, like REALLY...
But I've been watching this fic since 13 chapter and to tell the truth, I've become a bit addicted to it. Now I can't help but feel afraid of direction it seems like turning to.)
For some unthinkable reason I just can't stand the way the fanfic started going. Or, at least the relationship part.
There is a lot of valid points here in comments. Some of characters are hardly seemed that way that they are shown now in any of previous 70+ chapters...
It seems like Ted just gaves up his principles... And and god damn it, I've seen such things done in (Bad Fan)fiction so many times that I simply become nauseous reading it! He was shown like a character with a shitload of a willpower, charisma (and others barely synonymous words which I dunno how to translate)... Why would he just give up in searching for a compromise?!
Really, there is many comments here which shows debatale parts of few last chapters much, much better han mine.
But just like that, I can't just stand aside and watch as one of my favorite fanfics rolles right into being... Err... Not as good as before?
Is it stupid from me to think, that only rewriting (a few of) last chapter(s) may help the fic?
Either way, It's been a great pleasure and I surely hope to see another chapter soon, even if it possibly (read: most likely) won't be like I'd like it to be.
Once again, Me very sorry for my bad english and stuff.
i didn't like this chapter very much.
they pretty much told him they would use him like a seed factory but "don't worry we will let you fuck the body you are more used to" that's completely against everything he was taught his entire life and he simply says "okay..." if i were on his place i would probably not want anything more with them .a relationship is about a balance,where both sides have to give but ted seems to be the only one giving.
and the thing about not being an individual really doesn't fly, since as someone above said they both demonstrated really strong signs of individuality.
i sincerely think this would be much better without the herd/poly thing. it almost always doesn't work very well. although i have seen it well done a couple times before but its very rare. a good first step would be slowing down like a looot its going too fast.