• Published 8th Feb 2015
  • 2,121 Views, 39 Comments

The Problem With Predation - CartsBeforeHorses



Gilda the griffon hates having to hunt for zebras and eat them. But to survive, she must.

  • ...
6
 39
 2,121

Accidents of Sentience

The last rays of the afternoon sun shone down on the continent of Zebrica. Crickets chirped as the wind blew through the tall grass. Rocks and the occasional tree were strewn about the otherwise flat savannah. High above the ground, a griffon soared through the air, the warm breeze ruffling her feathers as her keen predator eyes took in every single detail. She could see mice and snakes rustle in the bushes from far above, though she was after larger prey.

Gilda came across a small zebra village: the town of Poleka. Most of the buildings were huts made out of mud and straw. A fire was lit in the town center for the evening, with zebras sitting around it, singing and chatting. The smoke wafted up into the air, assaulting Gilda’s nostrils. Mothers and children were standing at the pond outside of the village, taking drinks. Several zebras were out in the grasslands, grazing.

No zebra saw or heard her coming. Griffon wings were as quiet as falling leaves. Her target, an elderly zebra stallion sitting on his front porch smoking a sweet-smelling herb from a pipe, did not even realize what was happening. He was aware of the pain for merely a second as her razor-sharp talons pierced his skull, scrambling his brain.

Some of the griffons simply didn’t care. They’d snatch young foals while they played in the yard, or they wouldn’t properly ensure their victims were dead, instead leaving them alive and terrified on the flight back to the Nest. Gilda wasn’t like that. She was a predator, true, but only because she had to be. She at least tried to take the oldest zebras who had lived full lives, or the injured ones who were on death’s door anyway, and make their deaths as easy as possible.

Just as a young zebra colt had noticed Gilda, calling out in shock in the zebra tongue, she had already ascended five meters into the air, gripping her prey in her claws. In her thirty years, she had become very efficient at hunting.

She’d much rather live off of oats and apples like her pony friends in Equestria, food which required a simple swift kick to get. How easy that must have been. But that just wasn’t enough to support a three-hundred kilogram killing machine, even one that didn’t want to be a killing machine. Griffons needed huge volumes of protein that they could only get from meat, unlike ponies. Whenever Gilda had heard Rainbow Dash whine about her so-called problems like not getting into the Wonderbolts, or only getting a measly ten paid federal holidays at her weather job, she had to restrain herself from slapping her ungrateful friend in the face. As an herbivore, Rainbow Dash had it made and didn’t even know it! Every day in a pony’s life was a blessing.

Gilda was a kilometer away as the zebra townsfolk down below and behind her were calling out in shock, shouting after the monster who had just snatched up a village elder. Even at this distance, with her sharp ears, she could hear every jeer and insult thrown her way, every wailing cry to the heavens. With her sharp eyes, she could see every tear rolling down their striped faces, though she didn’t bother looking back.

Her eyesight would be the first thing to go, would she ever stop eating meat for more than a few months. Then, her talons would fall out. Finally, her bones would crumble, until she eventually died. She had seen a couple other griffons do it before. It was a months-long, agonizing process, and only the most principled griffons became vegetarians, who were both unwilling to kill living creatures and unwilling to commit suicide out of self-hatred for their own wretched existence. The rest, like Gilda, simply had to live with who they were. Only a slightly lesser torture, in her opinion.

The sun was setting off in the west, the direction of her nest. As she squinted her eyes and flew towards the sun, she recalled the alicorn who moved it. Thousands of years ago, griffons used to hunt ponies in Equestria, back when the three pony tribes were still separate. But once the tribes were united under Celestia and Luna, the princesses demanded that the griffons never hunt in Equestria again. After all, the princesses reasoned, they wielded the Elements of Harmony to protect the whole world, griffons included, from powerful beings like Discord. The least that the griffons could do in return would be to leave their little pony subjects alone and go hunt in another country.

The griffons refused to leave at first, seeing the princess’ demands as a protection racket by the “alicorn mafia”. But with the three pony tribes united, they had a formidable defense against predation. Either the magic of the unicorns, or the flight and weather skills of the pegasi, or the strength of the earth ponies could be overcome by themselves, but not when the tribes were working together with all of these skills in concert. The ponies kicked the griffons out of Equestria by force, where they resettled to the continent of Zebrica and they looked for new prey.

They decided on zebras, since all of the other potential game in Zebrica had issues. The hyenas were vicious, tough to kill, and their meat was too sinewy. The herds of wild gazelles “belonged” to the manticores, who would fight griffons to the death for even looking at “their” prey wrong. Elephants and giraffes were too big and too strong. Fishing in the sea was banned due to a treaty with the seaponies, who threatened to capsize any fishing boat for fear their children would accidentally get caught up in nets. So zebras were quite literally the only game in town.

Gilda’s wings ached slightly as she fought against a northerly wind on her return to the Nest. It was atop and around a giant cliff, and the griffons’ homes were nestled in between all the cracks.

To solve the ethical problem of predation, the griffons had tried animal husbandry, but that had its own problems. How much better was it to kill twenty chickens to get the same meat that was in a single zebra? Chickens were quite smart. A few could even cluck along at kindergarten level conversations. There wasn’t an exchange rate for different species’ lives like there was for foreign currency, so who decided how many chickens morally equaled a zebra? Some griffons said “five” and ate only zebras; some said “fifty” and ate only chickens. Some just didn’t care and ate both because they liked variety in their diet. Many types of meat tasted just like chicken, but not zebra.

Cows, pigs, and goats were even worse since they were more clever than chickens, and they could comprehend their mortality. The few cattle ranches in the griffon lands more resembled slave labor camps than the free-range dairy farms in Equestria, where all that was expected of them was milk. As it was, cattle would do anything and everything in their power to escape being slaughtered and served as steak, so they had to be shackled.

Gilda finally arrived at her home nest, on a ledge near the bottom of the giant cliff, but still several meters above ground. The nest was made of twigs, dried leaves, and branches, and just big enough for her to comfortably stretch out while sleeping. Unlike ponies and zebras, most griffons were content to sleep under the stars, not cutting down trees for wood to build houses or disturbing nature any more than they had to. Striped zebra skin blankets were spread out for Gilda to sleep under on cold nights. The griffons used every part of the zebras, not letting a single thing go to waste, and they only hunted when they needed to eat. They were quite the conservationists.

Gilda retrieved some firewood from inside of a crag in the rock and placed it in a circle in her fire pit, putting some dried leaves and twigs at the base for some kindling. She struck flint against stone, the flint loudly clicking repeatedly as sparks soon erupted and set the kindling ablaze. She blew on it as best she could as small flames burst from the kindling, lapping at the logs.

At least the zebras that Gilda ate had gotten to live a full and free life, and were never tortured. At least she wasn’t responsible for the death of dozens of chickens a week, instead killing a single zebra at the end of his life anyway, the meat from which could easily last her a week. It was small comfort given what she still had to do, but griffons had long learned the mental gymnastics of predation, all the things that they told themselves to justify their actions. They’d also developed a strong sense of sarcasm. “At least we’re not breezies” was a common refrain of griffons like Gilda.

The zebras had never been pleased about the hunting arrangement, for obvious reasons. Recently there had been some talk amongst the zebras of arming themselves with modern weaponry and fighting back against the griffons. A zebra cleric who claimed to offer salvation to his “chosen” people pledged that a Zebra Empire would rise from the savannah and defeat their predators in a great battle. A few griffons had even been killed by his well-armed followers.

This was far from normal, though, since for many centuries, zebras had been easy prey. Their only defenses had been flint spears, bows, and their potion-making skills. Also, their monochromatic defense mechanism that makes no one zebra distinguishable from another. Perhaps that trick worked on colorblind predators, but griffons could see the entire color spectrum, and Gilda had never once failed to catch a zebra simply because he was standing in a group. She just looked for the target’s eyes and went from there.

With the fire now burning and catching the logs, Gilda placed the zebra carcass over it, suspended from a wooden spit. After a few minutes, it was sizzling, the tantalizing, mouth-watering scent of meat filling her nose. She always felt guilty about enjoying it so much. Even though she took every precaution she could think of to ensure she acted humanely, somewhere deep inside, she felt it was still wrong. If she ate chickens or fish, it would be wrong, too. Her entire existence was wrong.

Gilda removed the zebra, now cooked to perfection, from the fire. She said a small prayer to the God of the Hunt, if he even existed, thanking him for the meal and for the zebra who died to provide it. Though Gilda wasn’t particularly religious, she wanted to hedge her bets. Hopefully whatever god existed would understand why she and the rest of his creations did what he seemingly created them for.

It would be so much easier for Gilda and all griffons if the zebras weren’t sentient, if all animals in Equestria weren’t aware and feeling to some degree, from the smallest bunny to the largest whale. Eating a dumb animal would be easy. It would still be a living thing, sure, but at least it wouldn’t have feelings or be cognizant of its death. Why couldn’t there be just one available species in Equestria like that: a perfect prey for griffons, the perfect predators?

Conversely, why did the griffons themselves have to be blessed with the gift of reason? Gilda would have preferred simply being an animalistic slave to her natural urges, unable to tell right from wrong. But no, morality wasn’t as black and white as the zebras’ coats. Whether by some cruel design of fate or evolution, some accident of sentience, the griffons were damned to be monsters by their original sin of being born the wrong species, sentient predator instead of sentient prey.

Gilda dug her beak into the leg of the zebra, tearing off a bite of flesh. The salty taste filled her mouth. Taking no time to enjoy her meal, she rended flesh from bone with killer efficiency, finishing the whole leg in under a minute. The quicker she got it over with, the better, and she would go back to some other distraction like flying or reading until she had to eat or kill again. She wiped the bone clean until not a single remorseful morsel remained. Her stomach was full, her body absorbing the nutrients it needed.

And she hated herself for it.

Author's Note:

This is a side story to Brother Against Sister, and explains why the zebras took up arms and formed an empire to defend themselves from the griffons. If you like my dark, introspective style and grey morality sprinkled with satire, please do check out Brother Against Sister because it's written in a similar style, except less grimdark. It's long, but I like to think good.

If you have any questions about why the griffons didn't do X to get out of their predicament, please refer to the comment section where I answer questions.

Comments ( 39 )

Warthogs, meercats (hope I spelled that right), fish, buffalo...

There are quite literally hundreds of animals to choose them, and I doubt all of them are intelligent. And we've even seen Fluttershy feeding fish to her bear.

Don't get me wrong, this story was written very well, but... really.

........... yeah and its not like the zebra are....... a society who would of course kill any gryphon they see, and its not like Equestria would not reek war upon the gryphons for their monstrous crimes....... and its not like there are mostly non sapient animals in equestria and the only legitimately sapient ones we know about can be counted easily. cows, buffalo, equines, minotaurs, gryphons, whatever the fuck tirek and scorpan are, deer, and likely goats. pigs, chickens, fish, most rabbits short of maybe angel bunny, kangaroos, apparently non sapient deer, and probably even more are not sapient beings.

i want to say this idea is interesting yet ultimately it works about as well as a corkscrew made of cotton. there are far too many non sapient specimens to feed on, the equestrians would obliterate the gryphons if they had basically cow deathcamps, and gilda would ahve been taken down long ago if she was murdering zebra. the gryphons are not exactly high up on the power potential here. they ahve the power of pegasi but the pegasi would have other species on their side and generaly magic amongst other skills.

5603494 I couldn't address every single animal, that would take forever. Also, that doesn't make for a very compelling story. We have seen that even rabbits and chickens have feelings, as well.

5603494 ...... wish i could have summarized that thought as easily.

there are quite a few sapient species, but far more non sapient ones. more so there is no way grpyhons would be standing now if they were doing cow death camps. they have kinda the disadvantage here if the ponies, who have cow citizenry, would inevitably catch wind.

5603503 My headcanon: Equestria doesn't tend to get itself entangled in foreign wars. Though Equestria is a rather peaceful and prosperous nation by the standards of the world, they are rather non-interventionist. I mean other than the Crystal Empire, which is basically an Equestrian protectorate anyway, how many other countries do we ever see the mane six try to solve problems in?

5603520 i would have to cry nigh for that one. they might not be intervention based i suppose. however we are talking about the murder and cannibalism of sapient beings here. and while cannibalism normally directs the consumption of your own species, that is largely because we have yet to encounter another sapient species. so no term of sapient life eating sapient life outside of theri species.

put simply equestria would itnervene if the gryphons were going around murdering and eating people like that. they would be compelled to because unlike our world, they have the ability and will to intervene when things get that bad. this is not a civil war, or a corrupt state. this is systematic murder and cannibalism on a national scale.

5603625 We'll just have to agree to disagree on that one. Or, perhaps that is the case and Equestria has tried to intervene before, but for whatever reason were unable to stop it. This story isn't about that, primarily. It's primarily about Gilda's personal struggle.

And yet, all I can think of is:

a three-hundred kilogram killing machine

This is such an amusing line and will probably affect how I read this story. And then:

Cows, pigs, and goats were even worse since they were more clever than chickens, and they could comprehend their mortality.

Especially those pigs. Better watch out for them. They might be socialist.

Anyways, I'd also argue that it'd probably be much easier to go eat some creatures that have less sapience than zebras (like deers, unless those are only Equestrian deers). Or at least less of a civilization. Assuming that the cows are analogues to our cows, it would make more sense as a food source than zebras, which seem to be analogues (along with ponies) to, well, us.

The few cattle ranches in the griffon lands more resembled slave labor camps

I'm sure that can fairly describe a lot of ours as well. Minus the sapience. And based on what we've seen in the show, cows (although they seem to have at least an equal level of sapience of ponies) are even larger than ponies, therefore zebras, which means more meat per kill.

Given your story, I'm assuming the griffon population is small enough that they can sustain themselves off of feeding off of another civilization. Breeding and aging can only be so quick. Going back to the cows, it's probably reasonable that a calf could grow to the size of an average grown pony/zebra much faster than a pony/zebra would mature. So again, more meat. Much faster. More sustainable.

But you've already made the argument that it wouldn't make for a compelling story, so I can't really say that I'm trying to put down the story. It is, as said, well-written nonetheless.

I think I tried too hard to counter-argument.

5603876 Hey long comments are fine by me, and I like your analysis. Couple points. There are farms in the griffon lands of both chickens and cows, so it is assumed that a lot of griffons don't hunt like Gilda does, and instead eat more traditional livestock. Though cows mature at about the same rate as zebras do, as far as I know in both real life and the story.

The griffon population is also a lot smaller than the zebras, you are correct. Gilda would have a problem with eating cows because they would have been locked inside of a barn their entire lives knowing they would be slaughtered. At least the zebras she eats got to live a full and free life before she hunts them. Granted, they might live in fear of being hunted.

Honestly there is no easy way out for the griffons.

5603913

Though cows mature at about the same rate as zebras do, as far as I know in both real life and the story.

And based on what we've seen in the show, cows are even larger than ponies, therefore zebras, which means more meat per kill. ... it's probably reasonable that a calf could grow to the size of an average grown pony/zebra much faster than a pony/zebra would mature. So again, more meat. Much faster. More sustainable.

Although then there's the problem of the horrible implications of killing calves. Think of the children, right?

Next:

At least the zebras she eats got to live a full and free life before she hunts them. Granted, they might live in fear of being hunted.

So... full/free life with fear of hunting... better than knowing that being slaughtered is a given. They really do have those mental gymnastics down.

They also, could have, I don't know, asked the Equestrians for a spell to zap away sapience? Which of course defeats the purpose of the story, but I think we're just doing speculation by this point. And would probably create a different morality argument as well.

Now, if the story was about sticking to tradition and the hunt, there'd also be a different argument. I think.

And I'm sticking to breeding livestock like pigs, even if they're sapient! Griffons will do a service to the world, killing those socialists. Although the meat per kill is, again, likely less than cattle.

mm.... burgers and big macs. :eeyup:

5604028 Well, glad you liked the story. And yeah, death to those socialist pigs! :rainbowdetermined2:

As for the spell to zap away sapience, I know it's rather off topic to discuss but I'm curious as to how you think that spell works. Is it permanent? Who would it be cast on, the griffons or the zebras or the pigs?

5604073
The cows (and maybe the pigs). Two ways it could work:

1. Zap away the sapience of the adults. All subsequent generations are basically our cattle. (Which I think makes sense. Like cursing an entire civilization.)
2. They have to do it on every cow. (Which I'm not sure if it would make sense, because sapience is probably inherited...?)

Who would it be cast on, the griffons ... ?

The implications of that would probably be quite frightening. Same, or worse, for the zebras.

They should promote me to the head of the Gryphon nation. :derpytongue2:

5604153 I assume it wouldn't be inherited since it wouldn't alter their genetics. If two brain-damaged people who were brain damaged from an accident have a kid, then that kid isn't brain damaged since their genetics haven't been altered.

That's assuming that such a spell exists. Though the writers of MLP like to insert new spells into their story whenever it suits their fancy, in my canon I limit myself to season three and work with the spells that were already used in the show by that point because it makes it more challenging to resolve storylines. I still have a giant arsenal of spells for my characters to work with, though.

Way, way, way off topic, but I don't understand why the writers felt that they had to give Twilight even more power when she was already the most powerful character on the show by leaps and bounds, as well as shift powers away from other characters who didn't have that many to begin with. When was the last time that Rarity used unassisted, advanced level magic like the transfiguration spells she used to? Or any other unicorn for that matter, like Trixie? It seems every unicorn but Twilight is now limited to just telekinesis (unless they have some magic artifact to help them). Even the whole bit about "magic related to a unicorn's special talent" seems to have been done away with in favor of nerfing every unicorn but Twilight.

But that's kind of beside the point. All hail god Princess Twilight. :twilightblush:

5604217
Well, we'll have to wait for Season 5 to see if any of those in-show issues get resolved.

As for dumbing the cows, I was thinking that the spell would almost work like a curse that gets passed down from generation to generation.

And on the topic of new spells, given that Twilight had entire libraries to reference things from, it isn't far-fetched to assume that multitudes of spells already exist. Limiting yourself to spells already shown, while I don't have an issue to it, also works a little against the manipulative nature of magic we've been shown (though level of manipulative changes per author). Even if the cutie mark switching thing was something that seemed like it should've been solved a long time ago. That's where... fanfics should digress from the show to fix logic problems initially inserted to create problems to create a show.

This also goes back to Gilda's problem here. Why not vegetarian? She was shown to eat an apple. Although I've forgotten a lot of stuff about vegetarians or non-meat-eaters IRL, except for remembering that there's ways to avoid eating meat while remaining a healthy diet. I think?

I think I should rewatch the entire series again. To the wondrous land of balance called Season 1 and 2!

5604278 She does eat an apple. A lot of predators can eat plant matter just fine, whether for the taste or to supplement their diet; the issue is whether or not a vegetarian diet provides the nutrition that they need, which I argue it doesn't in the case of griffons. The whole thing about thought experiments that you have to remember, is to always make it as hard on yourself as possible. Like the classic trolley problem, you could answer by saying "well just blow up the trolley!" but that isn't as fun or challenging as whether or not to pull the switch. You have to answer the question posed.

In this story, it's a choice between hunting zebras or eating chickens/cows or some other farm animal. You could just answer "well just use magic!" or "just use whatever they put in dry dog food so that they don't have to eat meat!" but that's not as challenging or fun, and doesn't really force you to think.

And yeah I need to watch the whole show again, too. I am a bit rusty when it comes to continuity issues since it's been a couple years since I watched all of S1 and S2, though I do try to research before releasing a story what is relevant to that story. I also have a pretty good memory for canon anyway, so that helps.

5604317
Unfortunately, my answer to the trolley problem was to put the switch halfway and derail the trolley, which is a possible solution within the bounds of the details given. :rainbowwild: I think I think outside the chimney too much.

In any case, my full answer as it pertains to this story is still the cows (and pigs). (And maybe fishing in rivers if the seaponies didn't kick them out of there as well... if there's rivers to fish from.) (And maybe hunting other wildlife, but you already addressed that in a post above.) I'll accept the arguable nutrition concerns over just eating tofu and stuff.

I remember a chart showing how long it would take to watch the show entirely. Is up to Season 3 still under 24 hours? I could use a refresher even if I remember canon pretty well (let's see... I watched the entire series when I first came in near the end of Season 2... so about 3 ( ! ) years). Can't imagine how that experience would feel.

Remember back when the show didn't have advanced depth-of-field effects? I do. :rainbowlaugh:

5604346 Yeah they were all just getting a feel for animation. It has really improved since then. Along with the jokes getting funnier, it's one of the few things that has consistently increased in quality about the show. Most other things about MLP have declined or stayed static.

I also really miss the whole small town/fantasy feel of the earlier seasons. Also back then, it seemed like the characters actually tried to learn instead of making the same mistakes again and again. I already mentioned how the unicorns other than Twilight hadn't yet been nerfed and their powers limited to just telekinesis as happened around mid-season 2. Also alicorns were something special and not just another of the races of ponies. Pinkie Pie wasn't totally obnoxious, and Rarity actually had personality outside of "fashion, fashion, fashion." Fluttershy also seemed to be developing personality and it really seemed like she could get over her shyness. It also seemed like the CMC would eventually get their cutie marks.

But now everyone and everything has been flanderized and the status quo mostly preserved, very little character development except for Twilight and Rainbow Dash to a lesser extent. Also Discord.

5604395
As per the popular saying after S3:

Thanks M.A. Larson. (And Hasbro.)

I suppose this would just devolve into the argument that the newer seasons just offer something different in terms of setting, although in terms of character, again we'll have to wait for Season 5 to see if that resolves itself. Season 4 they seemed to be tripping over themselves a little on how to get back on track after Season 3 (which I thought was great, even as a half-season, until... Twilicorn). While I personally thought Season 4 was mostly good, it also had a few things that felt like they were trying to get back things from S1/2 but didn't quite work out (which for me was the Daring Do episode).

As an odd note, I still remember your One-Shotober Lightning Dust fic. Lightning, IMO, is one of the better side-characters in the show, if because she was an antagonist, but not evil. Like S1 Trixie and Gilda. Which makes for very fun stories exploring characters as... simply characters.

And to make bringing back the discussion to the here, they still haven't, if ever, brought back Gilda.

Also congrats on being my 99th follower I guess.

The problem with being a carnivore in a world populated by intelligent animals. It's not hard to imagine there would be some sort of 'organ donor' option for carnivores, but I doubt that it would be nearly enough.

There there, Gilda. We still love you.

What a smart, chilling take on the implications of Griffon anatomy! :rainbowkiss:

I'd love to read more stories from this world. :pinkiesmile:

5605821 Thanks, and I hope you check out the main story Brother Against Sister :twilightsmile:

I totally dig this story. It's a side of the pony universe you don't get to see in the show. (For obvious reasons) I like the angle of a remorseful predator.

Cool beans bro :ajsmug:

As a vegetarian myself, I totally approve of the moral reasoning in this story until that part:

Eating a dumb animal would be easy. It would still be a living thing, sure, but at least it wouldn’t have feelings or be cognizant of its death. Why couldn’t there be just one available species in Equestria like that: a perfect prey for griffons, the perfect predators?

Sounds like animals are just feeling and self-reflecting in the magical land of Equestria and Gilda wishes they would be more like the wrong cliche of our real life animals. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding your, though...

EDIT:
After reading the comments and answers below, I think I DID understand you right.
Specifically pointing out that animals like pigs have feelings and can reflect on their lives and deaths in Equestria strongly indicates that they don't in real life.
And that is, proven by science and research, simply wrong.

5610230 To whatever degree they do in real life, it is indicated in the story that they seem to have more awareness of their mortality in Equestria. I think given the intelligence level of the animals seen in the show, this is a reasonable conclusion to make. I think it would also be believable for Gilda to have the desire for "dumb animals" to eat, even if no such animals existed either in Equestria or in real life.

As for real life, there is plenty of evidence that pigs are smart critters, but is there really scientific evidence that pigs are aware of their mortality? If there is, I would love to see it.

Most studies and literature I have read on the topic seem to indicate that pigs have about the general intelligence of a young human child, though sometimes it is hard to make comparisons because they are smart in different areas than human children are.

Great to see this again. I like that you put in the work to limit the Griffons' choices, and I think you cover your bases really well, considering this is a short story.
More generally, I appreciate you trying to work within the canon of the show, rather than just pulling easy answers out of your backside.

I like that line "At least we're not Breezies" I like to imagine that Breezies subsist on something like the souls of newborn foals, and no one has the heart to tell the ponies.

One idea: Griffons may not know this, but we've seen Twilight easily turn all her friends into Breezies and back, could she turn a willing Griffon or griffons into ponies?

5613812 Hey glad you like the story!

First off I do need to clarify that my canon in both this story and Brother Against Sister only complies with the show as of the end of season 3. If my story includes or mentions characters who were introduced after that point, it's only because I think they're good characters and I try to introduce as few OC's as possible. Season 3 still takes precedence. I had to do this for several reasons, not the least of which was striking some sort of balance given how the writers tend to like to introduce new magic spells every season, which I would have to retcon into my story. Given the length of my story, it could easily be derailed.

For instance, what if we find out in S5 that there is a spell that Twilight could use to neutralize entire armies? Or what if it's shown that the intangibility spell is just as common as telekinesis? Conversely, what if it's explicitly stated that only the highest-level unicorns can teleport and it's a super rare spell on par with age spells, as opposed to being as common and easy to cast as I have portrayed it? Many, many scenes would no longer work. :trixieshiftright: These are all pretty real possibilities, so I had to draw the line and pick a cutoff point. I did enjoy season four, don't get me wrong, but writing a lengthy fanfic of a still-ongoing show presents challenges that there is no other easy way around. :twilightsmile:

But let's talk about Twilight and shape-changing spells given the knowledge that would have been available at the end of season 3. I think Twilight could easily pull off griffon to pony, but without some sort of magic power enhancer, it would be temporary, even for her. From what little we know about transformation spells in the show, they don't seem to ever be permanent. For instance, when Twilight turns the mice into horses to pull the carriage in Best Night Ever, she mentions that the spell would revert at midnight. Also, when she puts wings on Rarity, I believe she mentions they'd only last for three days or something like that. We don't know if the Breezie spell in S4 would have worn off by itself in time had Twilight not consciously reversed it, but I think it's a safe bet to make given the other examples.

To my knowledge, there hasn't ever been a permanent shape-changing spell used in the show, other than turning Discord into stone, a feat which required the Elements of Harmony even when the alicorns Celestia and Luna did it thousands of years ago. And he's just a single being, so I would imagine that turning many griffons permanently into ponies would require a tremendous amount of magical power that Equestria just simply can't spare, given that two of their three alicorns are needed to raise the sun and moon, and the third is needed as sort of security against existential threats. Though I guess one could also make the argument that Discord was particularly difficult to turn into stone given his power as a draconequss and that it would be easier to turn many griffons into ponies than one draconequus into stone.

I honestly don't know the answer the show writers would give, but my official answer as the fanfic writer and my headcanon is that it wouldn't have worked. There are no permanent, accurate shape-changing spells unless you happen to be a changeling, but even they can only really use it on themselves... or to turn other ponies into changelings. But only ponies can be turned into changelings, not griffons.

5613952 After reading through the 1st paragraph, I was like "but wait, Twilight is an alicorn now" but then you covered up every last angle later on. You make a very persuasive case, my friend; like a canon-lawyer.

I liked the idea of Griffons being attacked by ponies who want to "liberate" the cow farms. If I was a Griffon, I would think this was the best thing ever. I would surrender and be all "Ok, I am your prisoner now ponies, you are responsible for my health, so you have to feed me proper nutrients, good luck with that riddle."

5614013 Hmm, that's quite a clever idea! Let Equestria figure it out!

It's funny how you mention that I am like a lawyer for canon, because I actually did do mock trial for many years when I was still in school, so I learned to argue both sides of any issue. That's why I liked writing the court scenes with Zarek so much; I only wish I had been able to make them longer. Never actually went into law though. Instead I got my bachelor's and became an accountant.

5617201 I only ever did the time-keeper for mock trial, but it seemed a lot of fun.

That was a sobering read, though I do agree that there are more animals out in the Savannah that would serve as prey and likely aren't as sentient as zebras (warthogs, various cervines; Gilda could even swiftly steal the kills of other predators).

I liked how little you wrote about the moment Gilda swooped in for the kill. It was quick and (relatively) clean, and she showed no deleterious emotions over it. If it means not having to endure a pacifist's lifestyle at the risk of your own health and a subsequently, and painfully, short existence in the name of good morals and not much else, then you gotta do what you gotta do.

8325092
Thanks for the comment! Glad you liked the kill scene.

I didn't admittedly cover the variety of prey animals available on the Savannah. Maybe it's a drought and there are only zebras. I dunno. I just think it's more compelling this way.

This is one of my favorite fics ;3

All the other kids intelligent creatures with the pumped up kicks
better run, better run, outrun my gun

8467212
Thanks! Glad that you liked it so much :)

Wow, this is a classic XD

I read this fic all the way back when it was first published, it's still one of my favorites...

I really wish you would continue the story... This world has so much potential!!!

9426771
Thanks! As a matter of fact this story was part of a much larger story called Brother Against Sister, which itself was the third installment of a trilogy. I didn't follow up on the Griffon/Zebra element, because the story was over 300k words long as it was. Maybe someday I might continue this as a separate story...

5614013
That likey ends in going full peta and a Griffey starving to death on tofu.

9684861
When I wrote that I assumed ponies would feel obligated to take care of their prisoners. Of course, we now know that ponies throw any creature they don't like in an iron cage in Tartarus and forget about them.

The solution to me seem simple, they just need to switch from being predators to being scavengers, sure it would be a tricky bit of diplomacy, but in the end, an agreement that the corpse of herbivores dying of natural courses are turned over to the Griffons, and in return Griffons outlaw preying in any nation signing such an agreement would work.

The meat would be less tasty of course, and they would need to work out good purification magic if they want to maximize their yield, since those who die from disease aren't that good to eat, but it could work.

Combine that with working on developing plant, milk, unfertilized eggs(chickens lay egg daily, and eggs work for carnivore stomachs) or bug based alternatives for at least part of their diet, and they could end this horrible but for now necessary system, whether plant based alternatives are possible is a question, since Griffons are part cats, and cats are hard carnivores, unlike canines who are omnivores with a carnivore preference, but trying to develop something plant based, that can at least cover a percentage of their diet is still worth trying, even if it's not healthy to eat more than 20% plants for them, if they could develop plant food that cover 20% of their diet, then that's 20% less meat they need.

Such development would also allow them to convince their maybe less obligatory carnivore predatory competitors, to switch at least part of their diet to plant based food, which would allow the Griffons, to then get cut in on those carnivores prey, giving them a bigger territory where they can offer to prevent all predation in return for getting the bodies of those who die of natural courses.

But in the end, the simplest solution is chickens, not killing them, just raising giant population of chickens, gathering the unfertilized eggs, and eating the chickens when they die of natural course, chickens aren't that long lived after all, and they produce eggs during most of their adult life, which is also a valid food source for Griffins, so the Griffins can get food from them without ever killing them, it's just less efficient than killing them, once they stop or slow down laying eggs in their old age.

If Griffins can eat milk products, then switching to the Equestrian version of cow farming is also viable, sure the cows might still be less than entirely happy, about the fact that when they die from old age the Griffins will eat them, but the thought that your corpse will be eaten after you die, isn't nearly as bad as the thought that you will be killed and eaten, it just require you to accept that once you die, your soul moves on, and your corpse is nothing but dead meat anyway.
5613952
Even if the spell is temporary, if it can be taught to enough spellcasters it's still a solution, it would just need to be cast repeatedly to allow the Griffons to digest plants, then you just need to work out which form, can quickest build up the things Griffins can't get from plants, and a Griffins diet then just involve going to a spellcaster to be transformed, and gorging themselves on a nutritionally ideal mix of plants for building up what they can't get from plants in their Griffon body, then repeating that however often is need to stay healthy.

Even if they can't get ahold of enough spellcasters to entirely remove their need for meat, combining it with chicken eggs, chickens who die of old age, and milk products, could probably remove most of their need to kill for food.

Login or register to comment