• Published 22nd Jan 2015
  • 10,914 Views, 106 Comments

What Dreams May Come - Rainedash



Luna has seen it all and done it all in the world of dreams. On this particular night she's feeling rather charitable, and decides to give a special, surprise present to two ponies near and dear to her heart, creating a night they'll never forget.

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Comments ( 69 )
xonxt #2 · Jan 23rd, 2015 · · 3 ·

That's... actually not a very good outcome, in my opinion. In Twilight's place I would be deeply insulted and outraged, that I have to change my gender for the sake of my love interest, even if it's only on occasion. Things like a strap-on or a temporary futa-spell, or changing small and minor things about oneself are one thing, but such a major and fundamental part of one's identity... Nope. If she can't love her the way she is... well, too bad.

On the other hand, I really liked the first couple of letters and the idea of talking about the issue via letters was very good. :pinkiehappy: Talk about a perfect way for Twilight to be calm, collected and being able to properly express her thoughts. And Twilight's description of how she feels about Celestia, that part was very sweet.

5540940 How attached you are to your gender is one of the things that varies between people. I've always found the notion of transsexuals bizarre not because I can't imagine wanting to be a woman, but because I can't imagine caring enough to go through all the crap they have to put up with. :twilightoops:

5540940

In Twilight's place I would be deeply insulted and outraged, that I have to change my gender for the sake of my love interest, even if it's only on occasion.

Well, that's kind of how it is in real life. A straight woman is usually going to turn down a female love interest. And it's not like Twilight was forced to do it. Celestia simply asked if she was willing to, putting the offer on the table. Twilight could have left it and moved on or take it.

xonxt #5 · Jan 23rd, 2015 · · 6 ·

5541037 Of course. That just shows how much Twilight loves Celestia.... or how little dignity and respect for herself she has... one of those things ought to be true I guess.
Then again, we could just treat it as role-playing. Advanced form of role-playing.

5541032 That may be an unpopular opinion and I will probably catch a ton on down-votes and angry comments for it, and this is probably not an appropriate place for such a rant, but here goes.

Recently, after doing a lot of thinking (and deciding to become an atheist a few years ago), I decided, that there is absolutely no reason for me to be homophobic, to be against gays or lesbians. Unless they are of the annoying and flamboyant type that is. The ones that go to gay-pride parades wearing pink glittering thongs, or the ones that have this over-sensitive and feminine attitude, because in 90% it's just fake and annoying. And as for bisexuals, frankly, I think they're probably the luckiest and the happiest, as they can enjoy the best of both worlds. And to quote someone, "they shouldn't even have to fight for the rights they should have had in the first place".

But when it comes to trans-genders and transsexuals, I truly believe that it's a mental disorder in the former case and a sexual disorder (of the fetish kind) in the latter. I mean, the whole point of being gay/lesbian, is that both partners are men/women. You don't ask them the "Which one of you is a 'husband' and which one is a 'wife'?" question.
But if you are a man, and you think that you are born in a wrong body and should be a woman instead, I believe that is both a psychological (mental) and physical (hormonal development).

Or maybe I'm just still somewhere in the middle of my journey to tolerance and acceptance and I will learn to accept and respect them in the future as well.. I don't know.

5541096

Of course. That just shows how much Twilight loves Celestia.... or how little dignity and respect for herself she has...

A lack of strong gender identity does not equate to a lack of dignity or respect for oneself—in fact, it can be exactly the opposite if a person feels that other aspects of who they are are more important. Alternatively, it's not unknown for some to just not care one way or the other. Given Twilight's rather neutral upbringing and personality, the latter would not surprise me, and in a world where such a change can be casually done for a weekend with no lasting repercussions, I can see her snubbing the social norms for a chance at love, even if it's not a popular decision.

I must say that I am... disappointed. I was expecting bit more than that, both in actual narrative and in word volume. As I said before, it was well-written and you are definitely a good writer, but after reading the whole thing it left a very sour taste in my mouth. I was hoping they could put the whole 'stallion' thing aside and learn to love each other for who they are, rather than their anatomy. I did say I would give this story a shot, and I did, but clearly we just have very different tastes.

This story was very gripping. I really enjoyed it which is quite odd, you see, when this story pop up in my feed, it wasn't in Rule 63 group yet, aslo there isn't warning in story description so I expected something differend. Still I liked it a lot. And I have to praise author for his story because he definitely deserve it.

But, I have to agree with 5540940. Even though I try to stay as open mindet as I can to different characterization of main characters, because each author gives his characters diverse personality traits (sometimes is Twilight more stubborn or confident etc.), I still made my own characters for most of the ponies, based on the show and hunderds of stories I've read and how I imagine them to behave. Albeit I try to block it, when my concept is too different from author, there is a problem. Thanks to it, I feel like the decision didn't do Twilight but somebody else and pushed Twilight to do it. And that makes me really uncomfortable.

5541575

I was hoping they could put the whole 'stallion' thing aside and learn to love each other for who they are, rather than their anatomy.

I knew I was going to upset a few people with that decision. Thing is, not everyone can do that. In fact, the majority can't. Most straight people aren't going to just suddenly see someone as an exception to their orientation, even if the other person is someone close to them. Same goes for most gay people. And honestly, it's become a bit of a pet peeve of mine when an author presents a character as being completely straight, they get hit on by a friend, and suddenly they happen to like girls too. :applejackconfused: The same goes in reverse. I wouldn't really like a story that says how X is a lesbian and suddenly she's super attracted to a stallion.

I wanted to have a story where a character's sexual orientation wasn't just suddenly flipped, as though it was a simple switch.

5541686

Well, that wasn't what I was getting at, but ok. I understand your point perfectly, I just think if you're going to write Twilestia, a pairing where both characters are female, why not make both of them gay from the get go. I'm not here to start an argument, but I guess I wasn't clear enough with my original comment. Basically, what I meant was 'I did not like this story, but hey, to each his own'.

5541714
Ah, that makes more sense and all. And hey, thanks for the compliment to my writing style in the post.

5541741
I'm always glad when people can settle disagreements amiably, and I did not say anything that in my opinion was not justly deserved. Your writing wasn't the problem, it was the subject matter, but as I said, to each his own.

Contrary to others reading this, I was happy with how it turned out. Yes, Twilight has had a gauntlet thrown down, but the matter of changing genders (as proved by Luna) is a heck of a lot easier in Equestria than here. Heck, I have friends going through gender reassignment and you have no idea the respect I have for those individuals, given the ridicule they get and all the emotional stress of changing who you are to fit how you feel. That went a little off topic but still, I like that you made Celestia stick to her guns and not suddenly flip orientation for Twilight, since that isn't usually how things work. Twilight understands that as she is she has no chance with Celestia but good for her that she didn't let that phase her, and as she put 'it will only be part time'. At least if things don't work out she can still be herself afterwards.
Review over, and Cobalt approves :twilightsmile:.
If you are planning to write a follow-up, I for one would very much like to read it.

Great story. i loved the interaction between the two in the letters and would love to see more story on how there relationship developed as well as friends/family chiming in on Twilight being a part time stallion.

You have to wonder if this relationship will ever develop past a shared sexual attraction. Would twilight be willing to go full stallion to marry the Princess. What is Celestia ends up pregnant? Could a male/female Twilight and Celestia hold a health relationship if she only went stallion in the bedroom?

There is a lot of great material to explore her and even if this is the end if gives the readers a lot to think about.

Thanks for writing this.

5541037
I think we get a pretty good look at Twilight's feelings in this chapter, and I can get behind whatever decision she would make in that situation. However, it seems like we're missing one very important aspect of that relationship: How does Celestia feel about this?

She liked the sex, clearly. She trusts her faithful student, I'm certain. But... would she love Twilight the way Twilight wants to be loved when she's a mare? One's gender isn't the only important thing in a healthy relationship, but it's obviously very important to Celestia. If I were Twilight, that'd be the first question I'd need to hear answered.

I feel like this chapter was rather sad. And the letter format is something I really don't enjoy. I don't particularly like them, since it feels like I'm reading someone else' mail.

5542184 sexual preference bro. i got friends who, if they had been female, id totally be into them, fortunate/unfortunately they arent/they dont see me in the same light. people are born to have a certain sexuality, and its vile to make them change it.

5541575 lol not everyone is gay/bi/pan

The writing is good. But I don't like this story. :twilightsmile:

The problem is that love is about personality, when two people/ponies like each other.
At least in my opinion.

So, in this story Celestia seems fond of Twilight, but it's very much important to her that Twilight would be a stallion. :twilightoops:

It just seems really off. That means Celestia doesn't really like Twilight for her personality, for what she is. She just finds a few things about her to be appealing only if applied to a male pony. It's just.... strange. :applejackconfused:

True love doesn't have boundaries like gender. Period.
If it has them, it's not a true love. It's just LUST. That's all. Just think about it... :raritydespair:

This story would look more romance-like if Celestia wouldn't mind Twilight's gender, because she loves TWILIGHT, not her gender.
Celestia could say that the most of her sexual pleasure is to have sex with a male pony, and Twilight could say that she's okay with magically changing her gender for some sex sessions to indulge Celestia, becaus she loves her, too.
But... Celestisa is being okay with being in love with Twilight ONLY if she stays a stallion.... it's... meh.

5537091
I agree with you.

5542607
Um, did you forget the part where she doesn't have to stay a stallion full time, or the fact that she does love Twilight for who she is, not what she is. Yes I know it is odd that she has to become a stallion so they can make love, but love makes people, or in this case ponies do some crazy things. Now I do admit, I am way more accepting of this due to me being bisexual, but ignoring that I still see no problem with how these two handled the situation that was presented to them.

5542567 I am aware of that, but you know, the pairing itself is gay, so that's kind of what I was expecting when I see this particular pairing.

Huh. I usually don't like clop, but I quite enjoyed this. The ending to the main chapter kind of weirded me out, but the epilogue fixed that.

5542956
Thanks. I try to take pride in the fact that my erotica stories have interesting characters, and a decent storyline.

5542822

Um, did you forget the part where she doesn't have to stay a stallion full time, or the fact that she does love Twilight for who she is, not what she is. Yes I know it is odd that she has to become a stallion so they can make love, but love makes people, or in this case ponies do some crazy things.

It's complicated. Celestia cares for Twilight as a mentor, and she likes having sex with a male Twilight, but she says:

There is no hope for a romance between you and I as you currently are. [...] Are you willing to become a stallion again? It does not need to be a permanent thing, as we're bound to spend a lot of time apart.

Twilight herself is coming from a very different angle. She is offered the chance to make out with her idol, as long as she's male. For most of her life, she has loved Celestia. But she doesn't always want to be a stallion, and she doesn't want to be the dominant male Celestia secretly wants.

So where does that leave them in the long run? Maybe Twilight is happy just satisfying her passions, and then she'll move on. But what happens a few months from now, if she's sown her wild oats and asks Celestia if they could try something different? What if Celestia says, "I'm not interested"? The Princess has been honest with Twilight about her feelings, but that's pretty rough, knowing that you can only have that intimacy if you change yourself completely, and your partner sacrifices nothing.

The first chapter was some silly clop, but this second chapter feels more like the beginning of a story than an end.

5541096
You're still on your journey, one key thing to remember is that gender identity is a function of the brain and sex a function of the genitals. Yes, they do typically agree in large part, but a disagreement is not a disorder any more than not having the expected sexual attraction for your sex is.

You have managed to split off one of the four trait pairs at play here, (attraction), even to the point of realizing that it is not a binary. Now you just need to spit off identity and expression, (and possibly split some/all of the four into male/man/masculine and female/woman/feminine).

You might want to check out The Genderbread Person for an overview.

I'll never get the idea of putting dicks on girls so you can pretend you're not gay.

5542607 love doesn't conquer sexual orientations. If it did, then everyone on the planet would be bi.

And everyone fucked, the end.

5543466

According to research, 90% of humanity is bisexual to some degree.

5544330
Kinsey is kind of considered a giant joke these days. His methodology was ridiculously bad and slanted towards groups with unreserved sexual behaviour.

5543325
Luna is the master of dreams and when she decides she wants you to feel the aftermach of a very realistic dream, you do.

5544535
Not, it wasn't. Good catch.

This is amazing. I love it when an author actually puts some emotion and relationship into clop instead of half-assing an excuse for two ponies to screw each other. There's nothing significant to give a reader an emotional connection to the characters--but that very much isn't the case here, and I'm glad I found this story.

I do have one minor complaint, though. I think the ending would be better signed
Love,
Prince Twilight Sparkle

5544330
5544392
The Kinsey reports were made in the 40's and 50's. A lot of studies from back then that involved psychology or cultural studies (amongst other things) have needed to be redone as we've developed more accurate and less biased ways of testing, have changed our sexual behavior since then, or because the original hadn't been thorough enough to face the test of time.

I believe there was some talk about changing the Kinsey scale to an x y axis chart, and we do know that human sexuality is fluid to a certain degree--but "90% of the world is bisexual" is grotesquely exaggerated.

5544705
It might be strictly speaking true if you have no idea what a Gauss curve is or how it works.

5545610
It wasn't futa. It was a complete gender change. Twilight was a stallion, not mare with a dick.

I don't think the distinction really matters to anyone who doesn't fetishize it.

5543466 Actually, some research does suggest that, in the modern era at least, more and more people are professing to have been romantically/sexually attracted to someone outside of their usual orientation.

5546447
What that actually means is just that people from liberal societies are more willing to consider attraction to more than one sex part of their orientation to begin with - or at least admit to it when asked. Repressive and conservative countries are pretty much the same as ever, love or no love.

5546502 its hilarious how when defending bisexuality/homosexuality= GENETIC/NATURAL/BORN THAT WAY. But when it comes to discussing Heterosexuality= JUST OPPRESSED/SOCIETY IS FORCING THEM!

Either we are born destined by genetics and/or nurture to be a certain sexuality, or we are not and its all a choice.

5546766
Only to you, because you're kinda dense. It's a different (and widely accepted as more accurate) interpretation of the known phenomenon you're talking about. People don't act against their orientation, most of the time. They leave part of it out very often, though. I know dozens of bisexuals who basically live like they're straight because it's easier and less dangerous.

My only real worry with this story, is Twilight would eventually grow to dislike not being herself with Celestia. Yes she's Twilight, but she would be a male version. I don't think the two of them gave enough thought to that. Of course I'm a repressed kinda guy so it might be a none issue to Twi and Celly. Also yah for StraughtLestia!

5541096

Or maybe I'm just still somewhere in the middle of my journey to tolerance and acceptance and I will learn to accept and respect them in the future as well.. I don't know.

Here's wishing you well in your development as a person. :twilightsmile:

:unsuresweetie: But... well, um... as a person with a mental disorder (or more), yeah, your development as far as tolerance goes could be very helpful or hurtful to me. It all depends, you know.

5547655 oh, well, I did not say that I was somehow intolerant towards people with mental on sexual disorders! :pinkiegasp:
I just meant, that I think of transsexualism and transgenderism as just that - disorders. Doesn't mean I dislike them for some reason or that I think they need to be cured or something. I'm not about to start throwing rocks at them for my own sick amusement, heavens forbid! :rainbowlaugh:

I will come by this weekend.

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

5547883
The line between "disorder" and "sickness" is pretty fine, so you might want to be careful that you don't accidentally start getting hurtful to people there. It's easy to make a value judgment out of a technical term.

Absolutely spectacular,

I do hope theres a 3rd chapter in the works!

5547909

Couldn't stop laughing for ten minutes.
15/10.

------

But on to the story itself, I quite enjoyed it. I mean I can see how some wouldn't, how they'd have a problem with it and I even just discussed this with a friend of mine and he has a viewpoint that goes along the lines of, gender shouldn't matter. The opposite of mine. Sure, gender shouldn't matter, but it does. People aren't attracted to your personality at first sight, they look at your appearance and then they decide whether to talk to you or not, further interactions goes along purely by that. I mean you can't just change your orientation overnight. This was a pretty nice one, to that extent. Celestia would find it uncomfortable, probably, to date a mare since she isn't attracted to them, despite how close to Twilight she is and Twilight doesn't mind having to change her gender to be with who she loves. A nice ending, in my book :heart:

5547883 Sorry, just seemed like you disdained trans people for having disorders... *Shrugs.* Emoting on the 'net. Who can tell.

What's twilight saying in the cover art?

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