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After all that they have been through, Sunset Shimmer and Twilight Sparkle's bond has grown into a strong and deep friendship. But as their relationship continues to mature, they will have to face challenge after challenge that will put the bond between them to the test.
(SPECIAL THANKS TO FEATHER FLYER FOR EDITING CHAPTERS 1-12)
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Eu adoro historias desse estilo!!! Estou aguardando o proximo capitulo
5329527
Eu Nao falo potugues o unsando um tradutor online, entao eu estou muito se isso e traduzido ruim. Obrigado pelo seu comentario, eu appriciate -lo. O proximo capitulo e agora.
(again, sorry if the translation is bad)
First words out of Celestia's mouth at the end of equestria girls, after twilight comes back.
"How is sunset shimmer?" Not "Are you safe." Not "Did you retrieve the element.", "How is sunset Shimmer?"
Textually, Celestia cares about Sunset vastly more than Twilight.
5331929
Yeah, I see what you mean, I have been expecting to run into a contradiction with the show sooner or later.
That part of the conversation will come into play later in the story, and I wanted to establish that Celestia cared deeply for Twilight and mistrusted Sunset, so that events in upcoming chapters can have some foreshadowing.
To be fair a fanfiction isnt really meant to fit into a shows canon (though I am trying to do this), if you want to try and make it fit, we can presume that Celestia wanted to know what happened to Sunset just to make sure Equestria and the human world are safe.
5332773
Sunset's relation to Celestia is a core part of her character identity, shit it's glued on her ass. It's like ripping out rarities fabulousity.
Also when is celestia not trusting of a villains reformation?
5332898
To be fair, while she did have the initial idea of reforming discord she did leave the elements of harmony with Twilight in case he turned against them again.
And in the case of nightmare moon (1. Its her sister, shes probably going to show favouritism (2. The IDW comics claim that nightmare moon is a separate entity and if you dont consider them canon it is still a common theory among fans and can fit into the shows lore. (3. Its not like Sunset Shimmers endured 1000 years of banishment to the moon that would likely rehabilitate someone over time.
And she seemed perfectly fine with the mane 6 killing sombra, shining armour and cadance blasting all the changeling thousands of miles and probably killing and/or severly injuring most of them, along with sending Tirek to Tartaus, and Scorpan wasnt actually shown to have commited any crimes against the kingdom so his forgiveness is acceptable.
5333158
Obviously.
Which devalues Luna's character massively, but not the point here.
You bring the IDW comics in Sunset was groomed for princess hood day one just impatient, Twilight wasn't being groomed. On the other hand the IDW comics suck until they started to focus on one shots instead of adventure stories. (of course by that statement Sunset is a one shot and...doesn't suck.)
You don't Sunset still knew -noticeably- more about the elements than Twilight, and had you know the exchange diary. Sunset's connection to Celestia being so strong is fundamental to the entire plot of equestria girls 2 working after all, their bond has to be strong enough to force open the portal.
That was the Crystal Heart and Love Bomb.
That "Love" is not as much a force for good and much more willing to kill than the Rainbow of Light/Elements of Harmony in the mythos has been made abundantly clear.(Love literally the only thing that kills anyone in mlp.)
And Sunset can summon the rainbow of light, did twilight forget to mention she conjured a seven colored(Every plot significant rainbow before EG1 was six colored, in EG1 it was six colors+white, in EG2 is was a full seven colored one) rainbow without the elements to Celestia or something?
5333261
Oh, I do love arguing with you, Fimfiction just wouldnt be as fun without it.
What does Sunset and Celestias relationship got to do with, as you put it 'forcing the portal open'?
Sure, it was Sunsets status as Celestias personal student that earned her the book and thats how they opened the portal, but it has little to do with their relationship besides that.
And to continue supporting my opinion on Celestia's forgivingness, were never really shown that much interaction between celestia and tirek/chrysalis/especially sombra, and her reasons for forgiving or reforming luna and discord were either for personal very reasons or because they had the potential to be useful.
And if you still think that it dosnt make sense that MY celestia dosnt trust sunset then need I remind you that it is MY story, and this part of her character has been added to support future chapters. If you cant get past that, fine. Although I have checked your account and see that you havent written any stories so maybe you would understand more if you did. I dont want to sound mean but these are points I want to raise.
5334009
That's good, a good discussion can help people see things from different perspectives.
Because magic isn't mechanistic, this is a thing punched in our heads often by the show, that starswirl treated as such is why he failed, when twilight treats it like that she causes problems instead of solving them. (And may in fact be why she seems to have plateaud in the show once becoming an Alicorn, but i digress.)
Magic is the soul(in the greek sense), the true nature of a thing, and people's feelings matter to it. If Celestia and Sunset's relationship was broken than the book's enchantment would have been equally broken for the purposes of being a battery.
She helped summon the rainbow of light.
Pretty sure that's a surefire redemption test, being that's it's basically the Dao/Pantheist God.
As for useful? She did it without the elements, which is supposed to be impossible.
Celestia didn't trust sunset and vica versa, yeah kinda why they had a falling out according to the IDW comics(And absolutely fits sunset's themes again one of the IDW things i like). But there's a big difference between not trusting and not caring.
And it is your story, and i can't change it. However.
Sunset is at this point a character a lot of potential and a lot unwritten, we know four things about what she is at her core post reformation arc. Her relationship to Celestia, Her Arc being centered around trust, and that She is Powerful and Confidant again which is probably a Soul thing for her(In the greek sense again ie part of her essential nature).
You are telling a story with Sunset as a major focus, a character with a lot of blanks and few things defined, people coming to your story are coming with preconceptions(Frex, me) and want to see what they know about this character explored or those blanks filled in.
Prologues are not magic.
Also Critics and Editors are not writers for a good reason, someone needs to be unable to empathize with you when giving you advice.
5334771
I have to admit, I think you win.
While I still feel that the book isnt exactly powered by Sunsets bond the Celestia, I do see where your coming from. The crystal heart and elements of harmony are powered by characteristics and strong emotions, so that is some good evidence. And the point with the starswirl spell is good too.
As for the rainbow of light incident, I definatly see where your coming from. If Sunset can add a seventh colour, that would likely indicate shes a good person. Lets just presume in my universe twilight didnt really talk about this to celestia.
And with what you said about Sunsets character, my new chapter explores a backstory i've made for her and slightly delves into her psyche.
And I am sorry if I offended you or anything when I brought up the fact that you havent done any stories. As I said in my last chapter that wasnt my intention, and I understand that some peopke are critics and some people are writers. (I would recomend getting a profile pick though. Makes you an individual)
You called Twilight a unicorn at one point.
5339353
Gah! A flaw! Kill it! Kill it!
(seriously where can I find it?)
This is the first fimfiction I've ever read where Twilight's castle isn't described as 'gaudy' or 'an eyesore'. I like that a lot
Was that janitor thing Discord mentioned a subtle reference to Supernatural? A certain trickster in that show also masqueraded as a janitor once. Or it could just be a great coincidence. Either way, I liked it
5340718
The whole janitor thing was more of a reference to the fimfiction story Icebreaker by Prane (which I recomend to those who want to see sonata in a more serious, yet still enjoyable role). However, a large portion of the fandom sees EG Discord as a janitor, such as in another fanfiction titled the janitor.
5339353
No worries, I have found the flaw and slain it. It will bug readers no longer.
5336896
Oh hey there's that reply.
Stuff we already went through in the movie and that could do a lot more showing and not telling. She has her magic, her -soul- back. A soul which is represented by the sun.
http://i.imgur.com/3Pzf4dY.jpg
This, a reminder is the last image of sunset shimmer in the movie. (ok in the movie it's purpley and not colored, sue me that's the version in my ponies folder.), Powerful, charismatic, confidant. It's there to tell us she is finally who she is -meant to be-.
Also the Second EQG2 is the best 2 parter and trodding the same ground is just losing the war before it begins.
Magic = the soul(in the greek sense), i mean that's text after the tirek incident. Somethings magic is the fundamental essence of what it is. In the books case, a connection between Sunset Shimmer and Celestia, which even after Sunset Ran wasn't meaningless to her and she's the one who ran, she kept in spite of everything.
And oh look the book is conveniently on top of the stack of books given to twilight who has the mirror and is most likely to find a way to open it , hmmmm.
On the other hand, i'm gonna drop the issue, because I've said my peace and core to sunset Arc is Trust. It's the weapon she wields in the first movie, and what she must accept and receive in the second to do orbital friendship canon.
Though i will leave on what i said before, i'll buy Celestia not trusting Sunset's redemption, i won't buy for a second she doesn't -care-.
Edit: And i just remembered something from the IDW comic, namely when Sunset says she's making one of the greatest mistakes of her life, Celestia agrees and her agreement is plastered over a picture of the banishment of Luna.
Honestly, all of this does beg the question. Sunset's cutie mark is the Sun, If you are tearing apart Celestia and Sunset, -what does it mean-, and it can't have lost it's meaning because cutie marks don't lose meaning, though they can have greater significance than the possessor originally thought. (Twilight, Cadence)
Well i'd say the entire movie being sunset shimmer's redemption arc and how she succeeds where twilight fails says that.
Twilight- "Hmmmmm By adding sunbutt jr. to the group we were able to conjure a seven colored rainbow a thing I've only seen before when fighting sunset except then the seventh color was white. May have forgotten to mention that Celestia."
Twilight, you're an idiot, but that's nothing new, i can easily imagine twilight conveniently forgetting to mention completely flubbing it until the last minute when sunset had to do it, twice. With how neurotic she is about living up to Celestia's expectations.
You would have to try very very very hard to offend me.
Oh, my God... I Googled "kumbertish" to see if it was actually a thing. THIS STORY WAS THE ONLY RESULT.
https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome-psyapi2&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8&q=kumbertish
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wi0OX5FMqc
Yes you do, then the second part of that scene got shippier.
*Snerk*
Course not, they would be hypothesis until you test them, only once you've verified your hypothesis with evidence would they be a theory.
I suggest vigorously rubbing sunset on twilight to see if there is a reaction.
5350805
I know. I made the word up completely. I just wanted to make this joke about them freaking out over something that dosnt actually exist. When I was trying to think of a word, Benedict Cumberbatch (Actor: smaug from the hobbit, khan from star trek into darkness) came to mind (for some reason). I based the word off his last name.
5350913
That scene you're refering to is one of the major inspirations for this story. Although I just like the pairing since they're both so similar (powerful students of celestia) and both so different (one being more of a super nerd and the other being a bit of a nerd but more of a popular social person).
And like I said, I originally intended on putting myself in fractures place, so thats why I put all the fanfiction jokes.
5350974
Considering sunset's theme of trust, and the seventh color if her element is trust it would explain why she has no trinket.
It would also mean the most logical 2nd tier would be faith and is the perfect contrast to twilight's element 2nd tier being wonder.
All the wonders of the world vs. Knowing without needing to be told.
5351062
Uh, I dont beleive its been confirmed that sunset represents some kind of element or what she represents, if it has, where did you get this info?
Also, what do you mean by the second tiers? Is there something in the fandom I'Ve missed?
5351086
Not confirmed no, but she added a seventh color to the rainbow of light and by doing so enabled the rainbow of light(which was even hinted at in the first movie by that being a seven colored rainbow just with the seventh color being white, which then got filled in during the second movie.) to be summoned without the elements. That's a big ol of worms, one i'd love to see them open but a big ol can of worms.
And Sunset's arc is centered around Trust in both movies, so it's a very obvious guess at what element to give her if she has one.
When Celestia talks to Twilight about her becoming an Alicorn, she refers to the elements by a different set of names.
Integrity, Devotion, Compassion, Charity(Though grace is probably a better name, canon is canon), Optimism, and Wonder.
None of these have anything to do with friendship, and yet they are still valid names for the elements. Rather they embody harmony on a social/world level. So i call them tier 2, since the implication is they are a deeper/broader understanding of the elements of harmony.
5352729
Ah, I see.
Its good to see that you have a profile pic now. Not only does that make you more of an individual on this site, but it suits what I know of you. The image of Sunset Shimmer holding a book matches well with your liking of the character and the way you throw smart facts and observations at me during our arguments.
Good for you.
Wow, this was really well done. I especially liked the way you portrayed Discord; it was just like the way he acts in the show. Apart from a few spelling mistakes (which are in every fanfic) this was perfectly written.
Pootis penser here
5367918
Well thank you random devoted reader who I do not in any way know outside of the realm of fimfiction.net.
The power of the elements actually seems to evolve with contact with new magic. The majority of Rainbow Rocks the five human counterparts were using power of friendship magic pre-rainbow. When combined finally with Twilight they took on Rainbow power. You have to wonder if the addition of Sunset Shimmer to that rainbow altered the magic further and will be taken back to Equestria changed by her inclusion. I wonder if they can even bring the full magic blast of harmony now without her.
5369954
Those are some interesting theories, and I may try and get the subject of a possible seventh element into the story, but im pretty sure the fiction will be completely slice of life with little to no action or adventure (im thinking of adding some adventure scenes though) so its unlikely that the elements of harmony, rainbow power, or magic of friendship will come into play.
oooohhhhh......
5376927
Whats the Ooooh for?
5377216 The random idea that I had that Star Swirl could be Discord...
Great story! I really like it. I can't get enough of Sunlight lately. I really like how the relationship between them is going right now. It isn't an instant We're in love fic. At the same time, it doesn't feel like it will be one of those 100K+ words before real progress is made. So long as it doesn't get to a point where it endlessly drags this looks to be a really well done romance fic. Yeah for Sunlight!
One recurring spelling mistake I've seen is the word "recognizes". you usually spell it "recognises". I also noticed a few times you said "libraries" when you are meaning "library's". I haven't really noticed any other mistakes other than this really.
I will admit the Dr. Hooves joke did feel like it was going on a little too long. One thing I really loved was the game scene with Spike, Discord, and Sunset. I also like how you are showing Sunset's life outside of school in the human world. A lot of fics don't really go into much of any detail about that. I also really like the scene with Sunset and Luna.
I look forward to the next chapter!
5379753
I agree. Im trying to keep a steady pace with the relationship, but I have been worrying that its been dragging on too long. Expect their relationship to get serious in approximatly 4-6 chapters.
I also agree that the dr whooves joke went on a bit too long. The problem was I was trying to tell a joke while explaining a theory of mine on why you sonetimes see multiple background ponies.
Thank you for this long and positive, yet criticising of problems comment. They're my favourite kind.
Yeah your pacing work is very good, no complaints there.
5384377
Whats this? Woomod isnt criticising the story for once? What foul manner of black magic is this?!
(know that I am mostly kidding and mean no offence to Woomod)
I want more information on Star Swirl's cake palace.
5386607
An extract from a bulsh**t pony archive that I will pretend exists:
...T'was no more than sixty moons of advanced magic and the gruelling labour of countless pony peasants before Starswirl the Bearded completed one of his finest acheivements. Twenty stories high it stood, glistening white with every brick of vannila pastry cemented between whipped cream. High above the ground lay roof tiles of blue icing, that refelected the sunlight to shine like a star. Within those vannila walls lay a great hall of chocolate cake, that welcomed ponies with a carpet of red frosting. Etched into the inner walls were mosaics comprised of chocolate from the finest diary, which told stories of great battles and hardships of many pony legends. The great hall had several staircases that led to many rooms. Lemon flavored living qauters, blueberry balconies, and rasberry restrooms. Starswirl wished for the furniture to also be of cake, but his advisers sayeth 'Nay Starswirl, cake funiture is really damn uncomfortable.' so he went with beds and chairs made from solid chocolate, with mattreses and cushions like that of your average pony castle. The great sorcery used to construct the palace allowed the cake to never falter for many a thousand years, and regenerate the wounds of those who would eat it, 'because what was the point of a cake palace if it isn't edible!' sayeth Starswirl. Alas, many years after the death of the great wizard, the palace was destroyed during the rebellion of the griffon lord Kumbertish, who unleashed a plauge of parasprites to wipe out the pony food supplies. While this threat was vanquished, the palace was gone forever...
5377848
Yeah I've heard of that theory before. There are those who believe that when Starswirl tried to use the spell from Magical Mystery Cure, it had much worse effects on him since he wasn't connected to the elements of harmony like the mane six were. In this case the effect was that he became Discord, and some fans support this with evidence such as Celestia's seeming hatred towards him in Return Of Harmony, which would make sense if it was hr corrupted mentor.
I myself referenced this theory in chapter 2, when Discord says that Starswirl "passed from our mortal realm" before he was born, which can be interpretated as Starswirl died before Discord was born, or a weird way of saying that Starswirl became Discord.
5388795
Well it depends on the starswirl, there's basicially three usages.
The first two times Nightmare Night and Hearths Warming Eve, he's an obscure figure from unicorn history from the pre-classical era(to note in real history pre-classical would be Sumeria or Babylon so olllddddd like 3-5k BC) best known for a pottery spell and who happened to mentor one of Equestria's founders/The Elements creators. (You can almost hear twilight adding the line that he had mentored clover and it wasn't in the script.)
The second usage we have in the middle section of his characterization which is twilight done wrong, that is a unicorn with vast potential but squandered it seeking only knowledge never wisdom and never forming bonds with others, ie turning his back on harmony entirely. Considering his grand works wording and the effects of the perfected spell(transforming twilight into an alicorn), this interpretation becoming discord does make sense.
This is probably the most USEFUL characterization outside being a one note joke of twilight being a nerd. (Which was fine in itself, but hey they needed a name.)
The third is We needed sum guy who did sum thing in the past. This characterization is terrible.
And anything to do with him and the princesses we've got at least a 500-1000 year period after Clover/Pansy/Smart Cookie found equestria and the Princesses are even born/become alicorns, and there needs to actually be a classical era. (We know the princesses weren't around because the dinural cycle was controlled by unicorns then.)
You live in equestria, the male to female ratio is like 20/80.
Stop fooling yourself.
Sunset's a senior, once summer is over her little pony brain will implode at the concept of college and the human world will have nothing for her.
Then you can have her alllll to yourself twilight.
Question begs of where the first alicorn comes from go here.
Also just go find gen4 grogar, chrysalis, discord, or use the elements, or shit a dozen unicorns can raise the sun browbeat a dozen unicorns into casting it together for you.
Your sunset, you have a goal, your special talent is overachieving those goals.
Also it's pretty clear becoming an Alicorn is not just a "Spell", it's an extension of both enlightenment of self(mastery of special talent) and enlightenment in harmony(hence why you get all three races)....and that does seem to be all it does is make you all three races. Twilight has utterly plateud with unicorn magic since becoming an Alicorn, and doesn't use the earth pony/pegasus magic she has access too(This may be why infact.)
5389291
I do see where you're coming from, but the way I see it, it is still a spell. Even after Twilight acheived her enlightenment and stuff, Celsetia still seems to have something to do with the transformation. Even if it is the result of a mastery of self, or elightenment in harmony, in my perspective Celestia has to kick off the transformation process.
As for what you say about how Celestia and Luna became alicorns if an M.A. Larson (chuckle) can only be accomplished by another alicorn, the answer to that is pretty simple. We can see that those two are a different kind of alicorn because of their larger size and flowing manes. Theres also the subject of their immortality (or at least long life). Megan Mcgarthy posted a tweet (or something like that) saying that Twilight will not be outliving her friends. Even if you don't trust that, we clearly see in A Canterlot Wedding that Cadance has aged since being Twilight's foal sitter, so it safe to assume that they have normal lifespans. Theres also the fact the Lauren Faust herself likes to think that Celestia and Luna were born as alicorns. All of suggests that it is likely that Celsetia and Luna are a different kind of alicorn, and thats how they could of become one without the help of previous alicorns.
Also, I really wanted to use that M.A. Larson joke.
5389353
How long did starswirl live? Longer than granny smith an earth pony. I always thought of pony lifespans as a function of magic power with a multiplier for earth ponies(since they have regenerative magic their magic further protects their body from age, and you know clearly/canonically the longest lived.)
And yes cadence has aged, and is now bigger than most mares. Approaching Luna height, and to bring back episode 1 a thousand years ago there Celestia was Luna height and had pink mane instead of celestial mane. (And begs the question why luna is so much smaller than her sister if not for 'i didn't age for a thousand years'.)
Also as for twilight outliving her friends, considering the shows view on immortality/extremely long life as seen through celestia's eyes. That every moment is MORE precious because how few those around you have. And Twilight is the princess of friendship, she learns about friendship, when is she going to learn the most important lesson of friendship? That they end and that them ending isn't something to get worked up over because it's just a fact of life.
I always said early on the group splitting apart is the best ending, but twilight outliving everyone and getting new friends works just as well.
Appendium: The season 4 ending involved the main six sacrificing tokens of friendship without any hesitation.
Lauren faust also wanted the show to be a lot more of the weaker adventure stuff than the stronger slice of life stuff, that stuff HAS gotten stale but that's because of the lack of change up in group dynamics.
Born alicorns feels empty tbh, And hypocritical with what she says to sunset. After all going on about it being earned when one didn't earn it...
It also means Celestia trying to push the idea she is equal to Twilight is her straight up mean spiritedly mocking her, which well, makes Celestia a huge asshat.
A damn fine reason.
5391193
I prefer to think of Twilight as mortal. If she lives to the extent of Celestia's lifetime, she would have gone through like, 10 sets of friends, and while Im not an expert of friendship, I imagine their lives would have become meaningless to her, and their relationships forgotten, since she would have gone through so many friendships. I might be wrong there, but if that was the case, it seems to negate the purpose of being 'the princess of friendship'.
As Celestia qouteth:
"But who is the princess of friendship, without her friends?"
Yeah that qoute can be debunked as support for my opinions due to the argument that she can always make new friends, but I just made an argument for that up there. Also, the idea of Twilight outliving her fiends is a pretty tragic ending. And call me a pussy or whatever, but i'm fond of those. I'm fine with how you like the idea of them splitting up in the end, but if Twilight lives centuries after they've died, and has gone through countless other friends, it just feels wrong to me.
5393534
So only 50, over millennial. I've gone gone through, well far more than that in 28 years.
More than i can count, more than i can remember.
Every moment more precious for the knowledge that you have so few.
If one does not accept change, one cannot appreciate what one has.
Who is the princess of friendship who has fewer friends right now than some douche on the internet who overanalyzes a show for little girls :D Much less over their lifespan.
Though if i go any further on this topic i start going away from your fanfic into "The issues facing mlp in general." territory.
Tragedy is self inflicted.
Inevitable change is not self inflicted ergo not tragic.
I'd highly recommend you getting an editor. There are a lot of mistakes, that could've been easily avoided. For example:
Libraries - more than one library
Library's - belonging to the library.
Library's (also) - library is (in a serious mess)
Also words ending with -in instead of -ing. While it's fine in common talk (even then, there should be an apostrophe at the end, since a letter is bein' skipped), it's not fine in literature.
And other misspellings like "courtosy" or "experiance" (should be "courtesy" and "experience")
But you get a bit more of my trust, since it's SunLight. Very rare, yet my favourite ship
5396749
How do I get an editor?
5394344
Two things!
1: Wait...did you say you're twenty eight? Sweet Celestia, that means this whole time there's been a fifteen year old boy and a twenty eight year old man spending the last two weeks arguing about their opinions on a show of cartoon ponies learning about friendship.
Life is hilarious when it wants to be.
2: Im sorry if I don't know the definition of tragedy. The only way I can define it is that whenever william shakespeare wrote a story and about 80% of the cast died, it was labelled as a tragedy. I apologise for (literally) getting a D in english. SHAME ON ME!
5396796 There are a few groups that can help you with that. Usually you just get a list of people willing to be editors and you pick the one you feel will help you the most.
Putting something like "looking for an editor" in the description can also be a way.