Celestia
“Would you care for some tea?” I ask my niece in what I consider a very civil tone, especially considering the circumstances. We’re in the kitchen, one of the few rooms not to have been destroyed beyond repair, and I’m pouring myself a cup. Some might think it an inappropriate time, but I find that a good brew always helps me to keep a level head. Plus, I just enjoy the flavor.
Cadence lets out a low moan from where she floats, held secure by my magic. You might think I’m showing an alarming lack of concern for her, but she’s an alicorn, like myself. She won’t perish of these injuries. In fact, if my calculations are correct within a few hours her body should have regenerated itself, albeit at a significant cost in magic.
In the meantime, we’re going to deal with this issue, here and now. I’ve had enough of games. I like to think of myself as a mother to my little ponies, and part of being a mother is a duty to scold wayward foals.
Cadence moans again, this time slightly different.
“No? Suit yourself.” I put away the cup I had pulled out for my niece.
Cadence grumbles something.
“Language, dear. Did all those protocol lessons go to waste?”
Cadence groans.
“Very well then.” I finish pouring my own cup of tea and take a sip. The cool liquid feels nice as it slides down my throat.
With a flash of golden light, my niece and I vanish from my kitchen and reappear in my bedroom. I lay her down gently on my oversized bed before tapping her throat with my horn. I release just a tad of healing magic into her system to repair the burns I inflicted when I sent my flames into her mouth and down her esophagus and trachea. Her larynx and respiratory system, already regenerating at an unnaturally fast pace, repair themselves almost to normal levels. She should be able to speak again.
What? You think burning my niece’s insides was cruel? Overkill? Not really. Alicorns, alone among pony subspecies, have the ability to fuel our vital processes solely with magic. It’s why we don’t technically need to eat, drink, breathe, or sleep. Though in any medical sense her body should be dead, it’s essentially forcing itself to not only live, but heal as well, by consuming vast quantities of her natural magic. Her body will recover soon, though her magic may be reduced for some time to come.
At any rate, she’s in no condition to flee or to fight me, which makes talking to this selfish foal much easier. Maybe I can even make her see some sense.
“Better?” I ask, once I think I’ve repaired her systems enough.
“Go to… Tartarus,” she manages.
I roll my eyes. So cliché. I wonder if she got that line from a movie. No matter.
“Now,” I sit back in chair beside my bed and take another sip of tea. “I find myself in a rather unfortunate predicament.”
“Why the… buck… you think… I care?”
“Because the predicament revolves around yourself and your husband.” I take another sip. “You see, believe it or not, my interest is primarily in avoiding unnecessary bloodshed.”
She coughs. “Liar.”
“You know what I’m talking about. Your husband is walking beacon of dark magic, and continues to be for every second he is alive.”
“Not… alive. You… killed him,” she wheezes.
I raise an eyebrow. “I realize that it is thought admirable to bluff to protect your loved one, Mi Amore Cadenza, but the unfortunate fact is that you’ve already admitted to me that he yet lives.”
“You… lie…”
“Oh? Does this sound familiar?” I cast a spell on myself to make my voice that of my niece. “Just like you tried to do to him, Auntie dearest.”
“… Damn.”
“I can remember things, niece. Just because I’m old doesn’t mean I can’t put two and two together anymore. That you called my attempt “trying” implies that it did not succeed. Shining Armor is still alive.”
“What… do you… want?”
“The same thing I’ve always wanted, my niece: I want to protect the ponies. Your husband is a danger to them, and remains so for every second that he remains alive. So I took measures to rectify the situation.” I sigh. “In retrospect, I admit that this wasn’t my best plan ever. I was moved too much by sentiment to make the liquidation of my former captain as quick and painless as possible to spend enough energy properly covering my tracks. A failure I shall I have to learn from.”
“You… won’t… touch him.” Her limbs quiver slightly, then collapse again.
“Mi Amore, you are no shape to fight me. Please refrain from futile gestures. They make for good stories but poor life policy.” I take a sip of tea.
“If you… kill him… will be… war,” she manages, still unable to crack open her eyes.
“Indeed? And did you consider what would happen if you had succeeded in your earlier attempt to kill me?”
Her silence is deafening.
I smile slightly and sip more tea. “Now, part of my problem is this: from where I’m standing, there is little option to avoid some kind of war. If I terminate Captain Armor, there will be war. However, I let him go, not only will the dark magic remain, but you are likely to seek revenge, almost certainly resulting in some fool war with me.” I take another drink. I’m going through this cup pretty quickly. “As I would prefer that Equestria and the Crystal Empire do not fight a prolonged war, it seems to me that the best way to minimize the bloodshed would be to execute you, execute your husband, and personally take this city with my sister. Yes, some will inevitably die, and many will hate me for the remainder of their mortal lives, but all but the most foolish will submit with their rulers eliminated and a pair of goddesses breathing down their necks.” I sigh wearily. “I don’t particularly enjoy the idea of that option, as it comes at the cost of the lives of, at minimum, several dozen ponies. Two of them being my family. And of course, my student will be permanently alienated from me. Twilight would never forgive me for liquidating her brother and her foalsitter. And then the very action of taking over an empire will force me to put off some of my diplomatic maneuvering for an entire generation or more. I’ll have the warrior-princess reputation again, not the peacemaker identity I need right now. So this would truly be a suboptimal solution.”
“You… scum…”
I shake my head. “No. Just a concerned ruler who doesn’t place her emotions over the well-being of her subjects. I have many wicked deeds on my conscience already. I feel that I can endure a few more, if need be.” I drain the last of my tea and set the cup aside. “However, this would come at a particularly deep price for me. Therefore, I am giving you the chance to try and talk me out of it.”
“Not your… subjects… My… jurisdiction...”
“I thought I’d told you before, Cadence. We are alicorns. Whatever the temporary laws of mortals may say, our jurisdiction is universal. Whether or not the Crystal Empire technically falls under your domain, I think of these ponies as every bit as much my own as those of Equestria, and I will not tolerate a continued threat to them.” I pause. “And I think you’ll find the practical realities to be very much weighted in my favor. I’m rather in a position to dictate conqueror’s terms.”
“Thought we… settled this… way back…”
“No, we did not “settle this”. You angrily declared that the combined power of your mutual love magic and the Crystal Heart would be more than adequate to see off anything your husband’s beacon might draw, declared that the matter did not fall under my authority in the first place, and then stormed out of our meeting in a huff.” I get to my hooves as a craving hits me. “Excuse me for a moment, niece. I’m going to go get some more tea and bit of cake. Would you care for anything?”
Cadence just hisses at me.
I sigh wearily. “Very well then. I shall give you a moment to think up a reason why I shouldn’t take the path I’ve already outlined. Yes, it would come at a heavy price for me personally, but I’m willing to endure to see the Empire continued prosperity. But I would still like a better solution. See if you can come up with one.”
I wrap the room in a spell to ward off teleportation, just in case, before walking down to my kitchen and retrieving another glass of chilled tea and some angel food cake from my refrigerator. I like my little indulgences when I’m feeling particularly worn or stretched. Some ponies call the habit unhealthy, but I don’t think I’d have gotten through certain points in my long lifetime without a bit of stress eating. Besides, it gives my niece time to come up with an argument to stay their execution, which I admit I want more than anything else right now.
When I return to my bedroom a few minutes later, I find my niece still lying helplessly on my bed. However, she’s managed to crack her eyes open, and I can see that a few patches of blackened skin have returned to their natural baby pink. I don’t think it will be long before the first hairs on my niece’s coat begin to come back.
“So,” I ask, hoping and praying for a different answer than what I’m expecting. “Have you come up with a reason I shouldn’t kill you both and take your kingdom myself?” Please, please, my little pony, surprise me.
“Shining’s beacon doesn’t… have to be… forever…” she manages in a wheezing tone.
I raise an eyebrow and take a nibble of cake. Dare I to hope that my niece is finally maturing? “You mean that you are ready to let him go? After all this time, you’re seeing sense.”
She shakes her head as vigorously as she can, which in her current state amounts to a barely-perceptible quiver. “ No… Can make it… go away… Just need… time...”
I sigh. I was hoping for more, or at least a better lie. “Cadence, you and I both know that dark magic is all that binds his soul to that abomination of a body you constructed for him. To dispel it is to kill him, and you know it. No other magic contains lore for violating a soul like that.” I close my eyes and take another long drink of tea, readying my mind. It seems that I shall have to execute my niece after all, the way things are going, and I’ll need as much mental fortitude as I can-
“I have… a plan… Can… show you...”
I raise a skeptical eyebrow. “Indeed?”
“Swear it… no tricks…”
I look into her eyes. I don’t have the naturally heightened sense of empathy that my niece is blessed with, but I do have a lot of practice reading a pony, especially one I’ve known for such a long time. She meets my gaze head on. We stare into each other’s eyes for some time before I finally break the contact.
“Show me.”
Cadence
Celestia – I can’t bring myself to think of her as Auntie, not anymore – and I appear with a golden flash in a dark cavern, deep under the city. I’m still barely capable of moving my head, much less walking, so Celestia has me in her magical grip.
“Over… there…” I manage to wheeze out. Gods, my voice sounds horrible. “Illusion… on the wall…”
Celestia’s horn shoots out a wide cone of golden light, looking more like a lighthouse than anything else. It sweeps over the cavern wall in a circle. A wide piece of “rock” shimmers and dissolves away into nothingness, revealing a hole and a tunnel beyond.
“Watch the floor… jinxes and hexes…” I breath heavily at even this slightest exertion, my body frantically eating up all my energy to repair itself to functionality. I’ll be lucky if I can cast more than the simplest of spells for weeks. I may even have to tap into the Crystal Heart for a power boost.
Celestia unceremoniously blasts the floor in the tunnel entrance and sweeps inwards, vaporizing the runic glyphs I’d carved in for protection’s sake. As the dust settles, hard stepping sounds begin to come from within the tunnel, heading this way. Celestia looks at me and raises an eyebrew.
“Crystal golems… guardians…” Hot damn I’m already sick of speaking like this
When the first of the pony-shaped crystal statues I animated rounds a bend and comes into view, Celestia takes a single shot at it with a lance of gold magic. It explodes into tiny fragments without even getting to do a damn thing. The next one, too mindless to know fear and set on its duty, rounds the corner to face the intruder without even the slightest hesitate. It too is unceremoniously blasted to tiny shards of crystal by the white alicorn.
She waits and listens for a moment before speaking again. “Just two?”
“Yes…” I whisper, feeling embarrassed by the comparative paucity of my defenses when measured against what she had in her home.
“Anything else I should know about?”
“Ceiling… just before main… cavern… powerful curse…” I gasp out.
“And that’s all?”
“Correct…”
“Very well then.”
Celestia walks through the tunnel in silence, carrying my limp form behind her. She blasts the ceiling to rubble when we near the tunnel’s end, and simply makes the resultant rubble vanish in a blink. With all its defenses swept aside like insects, Celestia steps out into my laboratory. It’s the same as ever, with bookshelves and potion wracks and chemistry sets and scientific equipment scattered throughout the mid-sized cavern.
“So…” she says, taking the place in with a sweep of her head. “You have a secret laboratory, rather like some mad scientist in a cliché horror movie. What precisely are you attempting to do in this place?”
“Make… an alicorn…” I wheeze out.
Celestia an eyebrow.
“A body… for Shiny…” I explain. “Dark magic… needed to hold a soul… to a golem… but not… to a soulless body… if they accept it…”
“You are attempting to create a soulless alicorn form for your husband to inhabit. And you didn’t tell me about this… why?”
“Was afraid… you might stop it…”
“And you choose to reveal it now, because…”
“You’ll kill… Shiny… if I don’t… please…”
“I see,” she nods imperiously, before walking amongst the bookshelves and potion racks. She pauses by the twin unicorn corpses, kept safely preserved by my spells. “Where did you get these, niece?”
“Stole them… from a university… Bodies… donated to science…”
Celestia checks the cadavers over for a tense minute, and for a few seconds I fear she doesn’t believe me, believes that I murdered them or something. But then she nods in apparent acceptance and moves on. She pauses by my cell cultures, reading the labels over carefully. She picks a few binders, apparently at random, from the shelf and checks them over.
“You have Sombra’s old notes down here,” she observes as she flicks through the sheets of paper.
“He knew… a lot… whatever else he was…”
“Hmmm, I see.” She returns my binders to their shelf and continues her impromptu tour of my facility. When she finally comes into view of the alicorn skeleton, I brace for the worst, wishing for all the world I could teleport so that I could grab Shiny and run to the edge of the earth. Her eyes go wide, then narrow. I can see a tear escaping them.
“Niece, could you kindly explain why you have my cousin’s bones in display cabinet?”
“Your… cousin?” I manage, surprised. I didn’t know she was related. Granted, the alicorn community was never very large even at its height, but…
“The daughter of my mother’s sister. Her name was Elysium. She was, as far as I know, the last alicorn filly ever to be born,” Celestia says in a mournful tone. “I helped to raise her, when all our parents went to battle Discord and left us with caretakers. They never came back.” Another tear trickles down her face. “When she was murdered… it hurt. But I never found out what had become of her body.”
“Found it… down here…”
“Hmmm?” Celestia looks at me quizzically. “You aren’t the first to use this place, are you?”
“No…” I reply weakly, dreading what is surely coming next.
“This was King Sombra’s laboratory first, wasn’t it?”
“Yes…”
“This is where you found the lore Twilight used to preserve Shining Armor, isn’t it?”
“Yes…” I’m too exhausted to even think up a lie.
“I see,” she says again. She seems to love that phrase. She looks at the other alicorn’s bones again. “Why do you keep them here?”
“Think… they might be useful… in creating… a body…”
“Hmmm… very well.”
“What?” She’s just dismissing the fact that I’ve desecrated her own family’s bones? I realized that she was cold blooded when she tried to kill Shining behind my back, but damn.
“The dead are dead, Mi Amore Cadenza,” she says with a harsh look in her eyes. “And they have no further need of their bodies. If they can be used to better serve the living, so be it.”
Wow, that’s pretty cold.
Wait. “Better serve the living”? Does that mean…
“I have reached a decision, niece,” Celestia’s voice cuts into my thoughts.
“Go on…” I prod. “Listening….”
“I have decided to pardon you for your murder and attempted murder. Further, I will give you more time to pursue this research. I feel it may be worthwhile if it should bear fruit. However,” her voices becomes harder than steel. “There are conditions to my mercy.”
“Name them…” I’ll say anything, do anything if it stops this traitorous witch from killing Shiny.
“First: I will expect an accurate summary of your results thus far, along with regular updates on the status of your research.”
“Done…” I say, without hesitation.
“Secondly: You will tell nopony of what passed between us this night. Ever, under any circumstances. The public must never know that such close allies as Equestria and the Crystal Empire nearly came to war and regicide.”
Only because you started it, witch.
On the outside, I nod. “What about… breaking up the ball… Lockdown?” I pause for breath. “What do we… tell them?”
“Simplicity itself. We already have a dead noblepony to pin the whole thing on. We announce that Lady Rose Quartz committed treason against the Crystal Empire and attempted regicide out of spite and ambition. You merely executed the due penalty for such crimes, with my help. Naturally, she was working alone.”
“You think… they’ll buy that?”
Celestia smiles knowingly. “My dear niece. Have you not noticed that most everypony is inclined to believe anything an alicorn princess tells them? With two telling the same story? Only the usual conspiracy fools will even doubt it for a second.” Her smile drops. “To the public, Lady Quartz was a traitor, and she tried to kill her prince. That is all they need to know.”
That’s ruthless, Celestia. She was your mare the whole time, and you’re going to besmirch her name after she died in your service? You are frigid as the northern ice.
A thought comes to mind. “What of… her children?” Even after all that she did to me, I don’t want to harm two innocents for the crime of being born to the wrong mother.
“I will see to their safe and anonymous exit from the Empire. I have a place for them in Canterlot. It will not replace their mother, but her death will secure her family’s future, just as she would have wanted.”
“I…agree…” I manage. My breathing is hard again from all this talking.
“Excellent,” Celestia smiles again. “Thirdly,” her face goes deadly serious and she leans in close to mine. “If you should succeed in your plan, you must agree to bear foals again. Alicorn foals. Many of them.”
“Alright…”
“And you must agree to send them all to me for training. Every. Single. One.” Our faces are practically touching, and her eyes flicker back and forth between the usual purple and solid white. “Agreed?”
I hesitate. She’s essentially asking me to sell my future children to her like some… commodity.
“… Niece?” her tone is fierce, something like sound of a damn holding back a massive flood. “What say you?”
If it will save Shiny…
I manage a weak wheeze that should have been a sigh. “…Agreed.”
I’ve just promised my children to the very mare who tried to murder their would-be father. I feel sick inside.
“Finally, niece, remember that is a time-limited pardon. Your introduction of the… potential benefits of your actions changes my assessment of the situation, but the other facts remain unchanged. Shining Armor’s existence is a continuing danger to the citizenry of the Crystal Empire, and I will not permit it to remain so forever. You have convinced me to forestall his termination… but no more. I will watching you very carefully, Mi Amore Cadenza. I will be reading your reports. I expect to see progress. If I judge you cannot succeed… or you try to break our agreement…” She trails off. She doesn’t need to say any more. “Now,” she gets back in my face. “Do we have a deal?”
“We… do…”
She touches her horn to mine, and it alights with magic. “Swear it.”
“I… swear…
“Do you, Princess Mi Amore Cadenza of the Crystal Empire, swear in the presence of all the gods, love, friendship, and magic itself to faithfully follow the conditions I have given you for your reprieve? Do you swear to faithfully send me all accurate information from your endeavors, to keep secret our conflict from all for all eternity, and to bear alicorn children that I may train? Do you so swear?”
“I… so swear.” I can’t believe what I’m doing.
Celestia’s horn glows a deep, dark green as runes trail from it and wrap themselves about my own horn. I can feel the geas permeating me, attaching itself parasitically to my magic and binding me to obey my oath. It feels like slimy tentacles are writhing around inside my brain, but there’s nothing I could do to stop them now even if I tried.
The spell takes several seconds to cast. Celestia’s horn emits tendril after tendril of green runes that bind themselves about my body and mind. But eventually, the small ritual is over, and the geas is firmly placed around me. I don’t know what the specific penalty is for breaking it, but judging from the way it felt in my brain, I’ll lose a good portion of my mind, if not all of it.
“It is done,” Celestia says.
Wow, Celestia is an evil bitch. First priority is getting Shining his body. Second is punishing Celestia for all she's done. Not necessarily killing her mind you, just exposing all this will do the trick. Though that may lead to her being killed, crippled or maimed, but that's not particularly unjust for all she's done.
I'm not usually a fan of Tyrantlestia, however, so her willingness to kill her niece, control her with a geas and conquer her kingdom is fairly disappointing. I hope she gets what's coming to her in the end.
Ok... so you've casted Celestia as a sociopath. A weird one with some sort of messianic complex, but a sociopath none the less. Utterly cold and emotionless, completely practical, and logical, but dark, conniving and controlling all the same.
So quickly Celestia drops her own convictions for the chance of future alicorns. I hope Cadence finds some way to bring this bitch down, or at least reveal this all to everyone. I'm curious if Luna truly is in lock-step with Celestia or not. I wonder if there's a way out of the geas. Maybe get Discord to help?
I sincerely hope Celestia dies.
Never thought I'd say that
I sincerely hope you show Celestia having a breakdown or bawling her eyes out over what she's done, rather than have her narration just brush it off in a calm manner and a "oh come now, you don't think that really hurts her, do you?"
Seriously, that calm offering tea thing to a broken and hate-filled helpless enemy is some sociopathic Bond super-villain stuff. She seems to have some sort of messiah/god complex that goes a bit beyond "mother knows best" dictatorship. She just seemed like a slightly cartoonish Tyrantlestia here than a Celestia driven to do bad things for the good of all. Just getting rid of the calm smugness and sociopathy and showing how hard these events and losing her niece has hit her should help fix it.
4856011
Where do you get the idea that Celestia wasn't feeling anything?
There's a difference between having an iron grip on your emotions and not having any at all, though they can often look the same to an outside observer.
4856040
The style of writing and narration mostly, using the examples given:
and
These both seem overly formal, polite and calm for an internal pattern of speech of someone suffering emotionally. The style of narration should be choppier and clipped, with more emotive language. It would have been a good contrast with polite, controlled and formal speech and manner on the outside and a maelstrom of chest-beating and tearful pleading and hoping on the inside.
4856083
Well, then I didn't get the intended idea through here. The intent was always that she has emotions - she cries for cousin, she regrets attacking Shining, her conscience pricks her when one of her ponies dies - but she's reigning world champion of emotional repression.
In a way, Cadence and Celestia are intended to come off as examples of two polar opposite types of leader: Cadence lets her emotions effectively rule her, while Celestia gives them no place at all in any of her important decisions.
4856108
The thing is, it's all about the writing during narrative segments. The way it's presented shows little to no emotional repression. It shows cool hard practicality with a "oh and I would rather not hurt my family member". Emotional repression is about not letting your emotions come to the forefront of your mind and control your actions. It would be fine to let a significant amount on emotional turmoil feed through her thought processes and internal narration and still have her be cool, creepily calm and calculating on the outside.
It would also be good to see her tone crack throughout her speech, to show that she's not used to dealing with something quite this dangerous and personal (which she likely isn't). Remember in the flashback on the show she's far from calm and calculated; she begs her sister to stop and cries after she does what is necessary. Though that's a very different situation and she's more than likely grown a certain mental armour over the centuries since then, some of that can be used to embellish the scene and get your original intent across.
4856142
Your points are duly noted. I'll consider them for future chapters, but I thought I had already sufficiently established Celestia's character in previous ones. In fact, I worried that she seemed too emotional about the whole thing for someone with 1500 years of experience in doing difficult things.
And yeah, in the show she got emotional. And the world nearly died, only not doing so because Nightmare Moon was too stupid to check to see if she was actually dead. In this verse, at least, the big lesson she drew from that was that she needed to keep a tighter reign on even the slightest passions when the going got tough.
Well, there go any plans of patching things up between Celestia and Cadance. Thanks for posting the new chapter so soon
4856161
That's kind of the impression I got. She suppresses her emotions and does what she feels is for the greater good. Even if the method is not so good. Still that calls into question why she now wants a group of Alcorn foals. Small army of peacekeepers maybe?
4856161
Thanks for taking the constructive criticism into account. Many people on this site don't have that kind of maturity. Also, I'm guessing you don't have an editor if only for the speed of your updates. It often helps to get a little extra criticism and suggestions before the thing is released to the public.
Eh, I sort of can understand Celestia. I get the feeling that she, to a large part, decided to show a side and behavior that doesn't really match what she feels for strategic reasons.
And if dark magic is as dangerous as she seems to feel, it's like resurrecting someone by filling them with airborn ebola. It seems somewhat reasonable to be against that.
4856258
Read my blog post on feedback. It's always worth taking the time to think on whether your critics have a point. And only a fool presumes they're above mistakes.
And I do have friend who does some editng. I just write several chapters in advance and release when I choose. I have the finale of this story written out already, for example. I sometimes change things in response to valid criticisms, but I still prefer to have a health buffer before posting.
4856275
So you already have most of it written out? I figured you just had a well thought out and solid outline/plan. Course you have been spoiling us with a near daily update schedule.
An added cruelty is Cadence's future children being forced to go and train under the person who tried to murder their father. If I were Cadence and looking to get out of this geas thing, I would ask Luna to patrol my dreams under the excuse of helping with nightmares and will myself to dream the memory of these events. If she doesn't side with Celestia or brush the dreams off as just dreams, then that should blow the lid on the conspiracy without having Cadence's brain fried by her aunt's magic.
"I'm going to sue you"
~Rick Astley
4856329
Well, technically, I have the finale of this story and the first few chapters of my planned sequel written out. That's how I can update so quickly: I don't start posting until I'm several chapters ahead.
4856351
Cruel? Perhaps. But what's so cruel about being personally tutored by the oldest and most powerful Alicorn in existence? Many ponies would kill for a similar opportunity.
4856394
I'm afraid I don't get it.
4856444
Sequel already? Is this story merely part one?
4856519
Correct, you are. I created a whole world in my head just brimming with stories to tell and more adventures and characters to explore. This is but the catalyst for what I hope to be greater stories to come.
4856444
I meant cruel for Cadence.
4856040
This is what I was talking about what was going to happen, Snake. You did get your points across. But you didn't contend with the psychological impact of people becoming emotionally biased without realizing it, and then believing they are using objective thought in their understanding and arguments when it's just the runoff of their emotions over being so attached to Cadence.
At the beginning of the story we're made to feel for Cadence and Shining. They've got it rough, they're provoking a whole gamut of feelings in us. They're the ones we see first, and see the most of early on. That cements the reader's emotional attachment, especially with the whole communal 'underdog' thing that also creates so many Luna-cultists who honestly believe she was a victim canonically.
Then once you introduce the antagonist... well, you saw how violently Ruby Quartz was reacted to, how she was called flat and the like, how people hated her. That's not so much due to Ruby's character, as stories with hated nobles are common. It's due to the fact she was upsetting Cadence and Shining, whom we were emotionally biased towards supporting.
Then you introduced another antagonist, Celestia. Well-meaning, doing all she knows she must do for a better future, to prevent something nigh cataclysmic to the state of the world. For the sake of her subjects. On a logical level, she was completely correct with the information she had. On an emotional level, we were all but forced to hate her - your intention to show that she was doing what she believed to be right was subverted into "Look at her, arrogant and scheming, acting like she knows what's best for everyone!" while said persons thinking that stew on that little patch of thought, they completely overlook the fact that aside from knowing about the alicorn-body research, she was entirely in the right.
There were a couple of options. Shining leaves the picture and Cadence is made to properly assume her rule over her kingdom - best case scenario. Cadence is forced to abdicate and Equestria annexes the Empire or completely absorbs it - which would cause MASSIVE political backlash and unrest in both nations - nonviable. Or sit back and wait until Cadence finally loses it and her entire nation of innocent crystal ponies falls into ruin, death, and decay. Celestia had been trying to talk sense into them for hundreds of years. She had no other options left, and it truly weighed heavily on her heart.
But, being so emotionally-invested in said underdogs, even though both are clinically insane by this point and Cadence was becoming more and more psychotic as time drew on, the reader was drawn by the flow of writing to completely disregard the above factual notions in favor of a subjective opinion that seems as though it were fact to them. Willful ignorance, and not entirely their fault so much as once you achieve immersion this is the path the writing takes you down.
4855534 infallibility is the most common trait of a tyrant, be they benevolent or corrupt. basically i agree
4856602
Considering that she's doing it on a level of "I'm a god, and I'm pretty sure I'm right so I'm gonna do this, fuck the mortals", the problem is there has been no evidence, nothing really showing beyond what could happen, but might, I mean medical research miiiight lead to a breakthrough in healing, but it miiight just as well lead to a chaotic sociopathic mess of those who will be tortured for science, the problem is we have nothing to go on beyond her word, and she's so far proven to be a sociopath with a literal god complex who at several points has been proven wrong in her words because it didn't go as she thought. Luna for example.
It doesn't help that she's taking the route of "I'm a goddess, they are mortal, I don't care let them rot with their names dishonored to the last, they are just simple mortals I mean who cares we'll outlive them alright." It makes me wonder if the ones she took in marriage were really out of love and more out of obligation, that she ever really cared at all.
The problem is you're assuming she's always "Right"
Hallelujah~! Two chapters in one day!
I'm sorry if you didn't mean it this way, but I couldn't help but laugh in the first half. What with Celestia having a conversation with a moaning Cadance, unable to speak, and the need for tea and cake to calm herself xD
I really like how you wrote out Celestia's parts in this chapter. Very regal, very logical, and maintaining her composure despite the contents of the conversation....though that probably comes with her old age. I also couldn't help but laugh at her commenting she didn't want a warrior princess image again It made me wonder....Celestia: The Warrior Princess!!!!
I was actually able to understand Celestia's views on this matter. With her age and experience, her seemingly twisted logic and decision-making makes a lot of sense. And it's really nice how you executed that through this chapter.
Although, taking ALL of Cadance and Shining's potential children?
4856847
Exhibit A, Snake.
On a note to you, Wroth... you mean exactly what Cadence was doing and thinking? Except when she did it, it was more towards her feelings for Shining rather than Celestia's desire to see that all the ponies are kept safe and in relative peace with happy, productive lives? Which of these is selfish and which is sacrificing?
On one hand, Cadence thought pretty much exactly this around the same chapter she also intoned the Empire could burn for all she cares in the face of keeping Shining.
On the other, Celestia has only been stating logical facts. There was none of this supposed pomp and arrogance that you inserted into your post. I have read and re-read to be sure.
Cadence has only been thinking of herself and her husband. The only time she's even appropriately brought up her nation in this story was to say she'd use their lives as a weapon in a war against Celestia. A needless war that could not be won. She knew this, and she still said she would throw her people at Celestia, where they would die. Further proving she does not possess the political mind to keep her people safe currently. Further proving she'd let them die for the sake of Shining, except instead of letting them - she'd be forcing them to die for her revenge, for her husband. Would you want to be a citizen of hers or Equestria's?
Celestia has been looking at the big picture. She has all but stated she wishes she could see things as Cadence does. On an individual level. But then who would be fretting over the nations and the world at large? If everyone else is comfortable seeing pony by pony rather than as a whole, then no one is protecting the world stage. No one is keeping the balance. No one is looking ahead to the future and plotting out what actions can only lead where using all available knowledge. Someone has to - blinding yourself like that is disgraceful, and only allowable as long as someone else has taken up that role.
Celestia took that role upon herself, as the eldest and most powerful, the most experienced. Do you have any idea what it's like to do that? To give up the part of you that makes you capable of feeling warm and happy, and replacing it with the needs of the many? Even if you must do things that they will hate you for. Even if you must do terrible things that they will never know, to secure their happy tomorrow? Have you ever had people depend on you so thoroughly that you would sacrifice anything but them in order to ensure that you didn't let them down, lost and scared without you?
As I've been stating, all I'm seeing so far are comments so emotionally invested in Cadence that all you lot can see is Celestia not being nice and immediately considering her wrong, and trying to find ways in your own minds that justify your feelings into faux-fact. Trust me, until Celestia started making perfect sense, I felt the same way as the lot of you - that is the unintended flow of the writing. But she is right. The only thing she didn't have was the knowledge that a body might possibly be made, solving not only the major issue of Cadence betraying her nation for her husband, but also the threat Shining's current body holds, AND the extinction of the alicorn race. If this had been made known from the beginning, things wouldn't have to get this far. It was Cadence's emotional instability that brought that about, too.
And yes, there has been evidence. You're looking for the kind of evidence such as "Oh look, Cadence is sneering while a house burns and she just walks off." or something. By that point it would have been too late. Through an intimate knowledge of Cadence and watching her for CENTURIES in this specific situation, both with her eyes and no doubt with her spies, Celestia has correctly divined Cadence's mindset and priorities. We were already shown the justification when we saw Cadence's point of view across this story.
The story speaks for itself. Read it without bias, but with understanding. Tamp down your emotions and use your logic purely. If you have experience in leadership and psychology, fall back on them. Try to think instead of in seconds and moments, instead in years and centuries. Extrapolate, draw out thoughts and decisions, factor in the passage of time and where its experiences can lead. Disregard the knee-jerk and create the scenarios yourself, build the world from the information we were given and then let it play out.
4856952
First off I'm going to ignore the crack about me being emotional based and on cadence's side despite not saying a thing about it, don't be so insulting.
The problem is as mentioned, she is taking it upon herself as if she was supposed to, she chose to do so but she blinds herself to the little picture, the fact of the matter is she has not been infallible and so while she states various things it's very likely she's done some things that would have made Sombra blush at this rate. The thing of the matter is she took it upon herself, she 'decided' I will do everything I can, Luna and every other Alicorn as well, and my assumption for her ended up nearly killing the world.
There's also the fact that by becoming taking it upon herself, she has forced her little ponies to depend on her entirely, she felt they could not do it themselves and so rather then actually developing they've been developing by her tune instead, having no real path aside from what she's forced upon them. There's no structure except for what she's carried out.
You might want to tone down the insults, it's rather annoying to try and converse otherwise.
There's the issue, she's proven she's been wrong on things, she's failed to secure the kingdom against Chrysalis, she's failed to see her little sister as the same as she was. She's not always right and as a result she may have killed many just to justify her world view. The big picture is still made up of little pictures, by failing to see that she's likely ruined many ponies and killed others considering her near sociopathic manner of killing her nephew and then disguising the fact she did so. It's a wonder how many families she's ruined, how many civilizations broken apart because she felt they would be a threat. She took it all upon herself to force her civilization to continue along a path she FELT was right.
I don't like what Cadence is doing either, I wouldn't mind it if she didn't feel the need that her citizens would fall before shining, but to think I would take Celestia's disgusting thought that they need to be coddled and prodded along the right way by doing what she has horrify's me, to think that a nation cannot stand on it's own and to the point of needing to justify murder, the ruination of households, the likelyhood of murder and potential chaos she's done in the name of it. It's worse then Cadence, at least Cadence is just unstable, Celestia justifies her murders all for the "Greater Good" and that is something I cannot forgive. Her arrogance is thinking that she has to do it all herself, that a few deaths here and there are fine in the end, I wonder if she see's a hill full of corpses that's been all by her hand that she stands upon to see the 'bigger picture'
Interesting story and view of god-like beings (not to mention the mortals caught in the middle). Rather well written too. The form you're using is different from the norm and refreshing to read. I'd be careful as you progress that all the voices don't start sounding like your voice but so far they are still unique enough. I look forward to reading more.
4857053
You are not being insulted. I believe I've seen you before on other stories, so if you have some glimmering of memory of me you will remember what it is like when I insult someone. It is rather full of expletives and vitriol! Anything less is simply what it is at face value, and that is the end of it. More than that is what you want it to be. As it stands I bear you no ill will, so I will not be insulting you unless you give me reason to do so. If I come off abrasive, there's not quite a lot I can do about that. This is as placid as it gets. Do try to forgive it.
The alicorns were a race. It is implied they were always rulers, so no - she didn't just randomly decide it was upon her. It was always thus. As the eldest of the surviving immortals, who else was going to continue ruling? It fell to Celestia and Luna. So, your assumptions that the equine world's current structure of leadership is entirely her fault is null and void - and was before you made the comment. I did not forget about King Solaris, or Elysium and her own surely royal parents.
This. This thinking is TOXIC beyond belief. "What? A leader is capable of making mistakes? Then obviously everything they've done is a sham and their whole line of thinking is poison!" is about the gist of what you just said. Something I've heard many times from people far more ignorant than you. That line of thinking is beneath you, Wroth, and if my memory of you serves, you can do better. Celestia made her mistakes and learned from them. She learned how to prevent others from following the same path, as well. The world is better for it, certainly.
As for the bit about the people whose lives she's ruined... honestly? What of it? Tell me, who is more important? The few who are a threat to peace and stability? Or thousands and thousands more innocents? The saying about eggs and omelettes wasn't just for fun or to be disregarded. It came about due to the fact that it is an uncomfortable truth. What sort of leader would you make, if you were not willing to get your hands dirty to save your people? If you refused to do what needed to be done, trying to find some purely ethical and humane way of accomplishing everything, only to find that it would cause more problems - or such a solution doesn't exist at all? How long would your empire last? How happy would your people be? The same people who would damn you for your devilish acts are the same ones who would curse your name for not performing them. There is no system of governing where everything is sunshine and rainbows. It's a sad fact that people have to die, dirty politics must be made behind closed doors, threats sent, spies implanted, threats eliminated, people played, lives broken, bones shattered, tongues cut, eyes gouged. What separates it from barbaric tyranny is the reason. Doing these things for personal gain? Horrendous and unnecessary. Making such sacrifices for the good of your people? Terrible, but what must be done must be done.
Celestia is the former Bearer of Kindness. Save Discord (who apparently wiped out the alicorn race) she is, so far as we know, the oldest living being on the planet. She has even stated that all the blood and dirt is her cross to bear. The unspeakable acts she's had to commit were not for herself, they were for ensuring a better future. And looking at the state of the author's world, I'm going to say she was largely successful. Her people are apparently the dominant force, they live in peace and plenty. The other nations and races are not keen to try conquering them, and things are likely moving towards a harmonious goal in the long-term. That is what playing the long game means, and sacrifices must be made on the way.
It is truth, history has proven it time and again. It's a lesson we can all learn on our own, as well. You don't get something for nothing. It is complete naivete to assume one can be entirely above the table in life or leadership and have things turn out for the best. I'm sure many of us have had to proverbially cut in line. I'm sure we've had to tell a few lies so everything is smoothed over. I'm sure some of us have had to do much worse. The ends justifying the means is something people hate, because you lose the personal aspect that makes individual people important. But at the same time, if every individual life is as important as the whole, there is nothing you can do to save the individuals OR the whole from what may, WILL come. They cannot manage themselves as a nation, they proved that in the past. The world itself continues to prove it each day. Even with supernal clarity and guidance the world maintains a tenuous peace at best. Without it, who would you blame the wars on? Celestia, who's been preventing it? Or those who disagree with her and would rather see her deposed?
You call it arrogance, you can't forgive it. But the good times in your life. Nay, your life itself, was only made possible by the same things Celestia has done and is doing. That is extremely hypocritical. We all live in countries that are built on the blood and bones of those who were first upon the land. We eat food and sit in chairs made through exploitation and lies. We type on our computers which were created by people who were used and thrown away by their employers, left to fend for themselves. Our parents have had to do harsh things in their lives, to maintain security, to have a family. Their parents, those parents' parents. Our ancestors. Our governors, our community leaders, our friends, our families. Everyone has had to do things they regret to make it. The same as Ruby Quartz, we hate characters like her because that part of ourselves bound with sensibility that we refuse to acknowledge tells us we're the same - and that we hate that part of ourselves.
We are the product of murder and lies. We are the result of genocide and greed. Whatever good we do and have, we have darker roots than we let ourselves realize. We criticize such thoughts as being inhuman and unhealthy. We refuse to look at ourselves critically enough because we don't like what we know is there. Call it misanthropic if you want to continue the tradition of labeling truths as lies. But we cannot judge someone who does these things for the greater good, in a manner self-sacrificing that is superhuman, in a way that we can not properly comprehend due to our in-built base natures, to be in the wrong for what they do for the sake of others. Not without invalidating our own existence.
4857247
I suppose I just cannot agree with a 'god' deciding the fate of everyone as she feels fit, I will suppose I am emotional on that. Would my life be better if I had been forced to choose a profession that may have been better for, or if life would be better for all if I had simply been killed in a 'tragic' accident. It might not be said, but typically for others there's actions to try and limit needless actions, Celestia only answers to herself and only herself, and I for one don't like being looked at as a tool rather then a person.
I suppose the same could be said of Tyrants, heck who knows, maybe Sombra could have justified his treatment of the Crystal Empire the exact same way. A little suffering for you now would build up character for the future children of your empire, this medical research will cause value for the future people, your suffering at the hands will allow for greater medical value then normal issues being solved.
I don't believe in such things, nor shall I ever will, the suffering of the few to justify the strength of the many, like Utilitarianism is not something I would justify myself for.
4857283
Believe me, I understand where you are coming from. When I am not forcing myself to ignore the parts of me that are emotional and chaotic when I think on situations like this, we would agree!
But then I feel guilty for ignoring the part of me that only considers facts, and I turn to logic for logic's sake. There I find these uncomfortable truths that even I don't like admitting.
We all have personal reasons for seeing things the way we do subjectively. We may not like thinking of certain things, we may not like the reasons we're given. But logic disregards that and looks only at what knowledge has been accrued. Facts and patterns. That's why we rely on it, but wish we didn't have to. Because we don't always like the answers, agreed?
As for the bit on Sombra, all we know of him is that he enslaved his people to make an army with which he would conquer Equestria and potentially the rest of the world. All we know regarding that is his personal desires. Until we know more, he was in the wrong.
4857324
The problem with base logic without emotion is that it leads to justifying cruelty, logic for its own sake means that why bother with such things as ethics? The value of logic is to get from A to B in the fastest possible way with greatest value (in this case towards society). Who cares if a few unproductive people disappear and suddenly medical technology in biology is advanced, the greatest value of those people were attained in medical research, or it might be better just to force them into jobs without pay, as paying them would reduce the value they contribute to society as they were worthless before.
Logic untempered by emotion is a machine, uncaring, unfeeling, and overall places no values except for those given to it. Though I will assume Celestia has some ethics and hasn't done akin sort of purge with Sombra's slavery and medical research (Though her Warrior Princess offhand mention seems to make that harder to believe). The problem is sure it's logical, but it's not ethical in any manner (And I value my ethics)
4857437
That's not a problem. If you're looking to build a society that will last, with peace and prosperity, in a world that wants what belongs to said society... it's the only way to move forward.
As I've already said. Someone has to shoulder that burden. They have to give up the parts of themselves that would consider what you're considering. It must be done. Ethics are something others can deal with. Ethics are for when survival is no longer an issue.
Hypothetically speaking, you are the ruler of a country beset by the threat, or the current action of war. You have the option of losing the war and maintaining your ethical purity, whereupon your people will be murdered, savaged, and enslaved and curse you. Or you can make terrible, bloody sacrifices for advances in warfare, medicine, production, and defense - giving you a better chance of having your nation survive and prosper, or outright winning said war and securing their safety for as long as people continue your example. At the personal cost of your feelings on the matter.
Or would you say that your ethical purity is too precious to sacrifice for the sake of others? That the few are more important than thousands or millions of innocents? A leader cannot be over-concerned with such things or they will not be able to act.
Not everyone is fit for the role. Not everyone can bear such a weight.
4857482
I suppose they would fall then, if you felt that you will have to make sacrifices, make sure it's visible, make sure your ethics can account for it, don't cloak and dagger it behind the thought of the greater good.
Though we have cluttered this section long enough with our Spirited Debate, It was good talking with you again Aurora.
4856917
Not taking on a permanent basis. Just to train. Like she did with Cadence and Twilight. Though as true/genetic alicorns I assume she would teach them the ways of their ancient people. Show them the duties that fall upon their kind and how to become strong and intelligent. Consider it schooling for immortal royalty.
On a more diplomatic note, it also ensures they won't suffer from their mother's shortcomings as a ruler, and won't be used against her in a conflict.
4857513
Likewise Wroth, it's always a pleasure seeing what we can think of. Until the next time, the next story!
interesting debate, and upon "the ends justify the means."
depends were sought other options before taking drastic measures to solve the problem, if so, it is preferable to sacrifice little, to sacrifice everything
I sincerely believe that many did not approve the actions of celestia, to take drastic measures to go straight to sacrifice shining, without exploring other options
I have not forgotten the dark magic but celestia, discovered this centuries ago, she had centuries to find another solution before reaching the point of no return, but maintained the position that shining had to die like all mortals, and stuck in that belief.
if she had abandoned his belief that shining had to die and had helped to find another solution and failed, no one could reclaim anything to take drastic measures
and upon candace she crossed a line, endangering hundreds of lives, and to say nothing to her husband, the problem of shining it feels as a false stallion, I know that in the near future could have a real body will might boost morale
4856258
One last thing to add to this little debate: I would have thought that Celestia's sincere love for Cadence was obvious, considering that the latter's love magic worked on the former. Just the chapter before, Cadence noted that her magic couldn't create love from nothing, only bring to the fore what was already there.
4856444
Rick Astley wrote (and sang) a song called "Together Forever"
It's really good.
Sorry, what kind of bullshit is Celestia making up now?
Celestia deserves the worst and more. If she really cared like she says she does she would have simply ended Shining Armor himself OR insisted that Cadence do so on pain of death (and grant her death if she refused) and done the deed anyway. Then she would simply have had to cope with the consequences. She's clearly never been willing to sacrifice herself for anything, but her 'oh-so precious ponies' are of no value to her at all if they become convenient pawns.
Celestia has basically just shown a double standard, "the end justify the means" but only for me.
---
If their was a chance this whole get an alicorn body for Shining thing would have worked, she really should have seen this coming and simply offered to help or this bargain in the first place.
4857482
No one can bear such a weight, those who 'prove' that they can have only proven that they cannot and do not deserve to lead.
...there has got to be some sort of sequal to this. Second I'm finished, I searching all your stories. HELL, ID EVEN PAY YOU TO WRITE A SEQUAL FOR THIS.
Regardless of what happens now, there's going to be a rift between Celestia and Cadence.
Machiavelli's Il Principe. Brilliant.
That's... one way to keep a promise.
Celestia...[rage intensifies] Celestia... *rage levels are OVER 9 THOUSAAAAAAND* I'M GONNA RIP YOUR HEAD OFF AND SHIT DOWN YOU'RE NECK!!!
*Hits ctrl+f*
Wow. 20 uses of the word "niece" in here. Overuse much?
Celestia feels ruthless, which I'm sure many readers object to. And fairly so, if they go by the idea that she cannot possibly be anything less than perfect. But she's not—she can't be, despite her public perception. No ruler, no matter how many centuries of experience they have, can keep such a peaceful rule without collateral damage, visible or not. I can only imagine the amount of unseen atrocities she has committed in order to maintain peace for so long. After all, it would be completely naive to think that all the villains since Nightmare Moon are the first ones to threaten Equestria since Luna's initial banishment. Of course this is delving into headcanon terms here, so take what I say as you see fit.
What's happened here is that the beginning of the story made us feel all sympathetic toward Cadance and Shining, to the point where we want Cadance to succeed in creating a real and proper body for Shining. Seeing Rose Quartz and Celestia plot Shining's murder comes off as cold and callous, with no respect for Cadance's emotions. While Shining has been shown in this story as nothing more than a plot device, I actually grew invested in Cadance's struggle to help him. This is because she acknowledged the immorality of many of her procedures, and even hated herself to a point for everything she's done and continues to do. She knows what she's doing, has the entire time, and has always felt the immense weight of guilt. I mentioned before that it was the one thing preventing her from being certifiable.
However, I feel the story has a fundamental flaw in its setup. Cadance is the Princess of Love. She ascended because she proved that she understood it. Therefore she must surely understand that true love includes learning to let go, which is something she has demonstrated being completely incapable of doing. Has she ever presided over any funerals, urging ponies not to dwell on the deaths of loved ones but instead celebrate the life they lived? If she has, then she's the world's biggest hypocrite.
In spite of my subjective beliefs on this matter, I like the story as a character study. It's bold enough to explore dark possibilities and really get into the minds of all parties. Cadance knows she's wrong, admits it to herself multiple times, acknowledges her weakness and hypocrisy (among other things), and yet still manages to be an endearing and sympathetic character. Her one major problem is being horrendously over-attached to her husband.
Celestia... I suppose she feels the same about Cadance as I mentioned above: she's defying the ultimate fundamental law of life—that it must eventually end. She has tried to appeal to Cadance's rational mind, or what remains of it—she's not completely bonkers—many times over the years, and has felt the time for drastic action is finally at hand, and only now after such an immense amount of time, and only then as a last resort. Perhaps the cold, formal presentation of her words gives the wrong idea to readers who see her portrayed here as a selfish, manipulative bitch. Yet at the same time, her internal monologue has frequently shown that she wishes things had not had to come to where they are now.
So now we have to match up the frame of mind that both ponies are in. I think I have to side with Celestia; I honestly see her endgame as more beneficial to everyone in the long term. Her methods may have been immoral and questionable, but as stated before, she feels like hundreds of years of enduring Cadance's epic levels of stubbornness has left her with no choice other than direct action. A world leader must always put national security before personal emotions, even if one must personally commit lesser evils to prevent larger ones, and so Celestia has done her duty, though it pains her to do so.
I'm honestly torn between wanting Cadance to succeed in creating a legitimate body for Shining so that he may live evermore, and having her actually let him go, especially if he urges her to. Which he has actually done many times in the past in various ways. Being in Cadance's head for much of the fic, making me sympathetic to her plight, has been a delightful contrast to the other feeling I have that she just needs to let him go already.
As for Shining himself... well, even though we've seen things from his perspective, he doesn't feel majorly fleshed out. Certainly not as much as Cadance or Celestia. I have to give the dude credit though—he's one dutiful husband for wanting nothing more than to make his wife happy.
I think the biggest problem I have with the story is that it just feels like far too many years have passed before this story begins. I see the importance of establishing in the beginning how it would feel to outlive one's own children, and grandchildren, etc... but perhaps the story would be better served if it takes place over 80-100 years in the future instead of almost half a millennium. I think 400+ years is far too much time to have passed before any of these plot points have come to fruition. For one thing, the way many arguments, angsty internal monologues, and self-rationales are presented implies that they have not already happened many times before, which I would expect ought to have started and continued from the very first years after Shining's original death. Also factor in that somehow, Cadance and Shining's current generation of offspring is at the great-x4 level, which means only six generations in over 400 years. That means that on average, their descendants have waited until near-death (70-80 years of age) themselves to have foals, as opposed to the more-expected 20-40 years per generation. In my opinion, this would be better set no more than 100 years into the future instead of over 4x that amount. That way, the emotions and internal conflicts could feel more fresh, Cadance and Shining could still have suffered the pain of outliving at least one—potentially two—generation(s) of offspring, and everyone's thoughts and emotions regarding the main plot device wouldn't feel so damn long overdue. Truthfully, if Cadance was truly devoted to finding Shining a real replacement body, she should have begun her research centuries earlier; it just doesn't make sense for her to have waited so long.
Take away the established timeframe and the bulk of problems it presents, and this has actually been a pretty enjoyable read as a character study. Now I just have one more chapter left. I will see what happens and if the ending wraps things up nice and neatly (especially where Sombra, Rose Quartz, and Celestia's geas are concerned). Hopefully so.
By the way, I thought geases were completely unbreakable. It seemed far too easy for Cadance to crack Rose Quartz like she did. And Celestia is placing a similar one on Cadance? I hope she's learned to make it stronger. Maybe I'm just used to seeing them as literally unbreakable in other stories.
Shouldn't 'raises' be in there?