Chapter 2
Twilight groaned as the world readjusted itself around her. She was in a wooden building this time around. Looking around the unicorn took note of the lack of decoration or… anything on the wooden walls. Sighing she turned her attention to the other occupants of the room. One was a unicorn with a light yellow coat and minty green mane similar to that of Lyra Heartrings back home in Ponyville. Only unlike Lyra this unicorn’s mane was brushed neatly and tied up in a bun. She seemed rather nervous as was evident by the way she was shifting her weight from side to side. Twilight wondered why as her eyes trailed to the other pony…
“Alright miss… Radiant?” Lieutenant Pansy glanced up from the small report in his hooves to regard the unicorn standing in his office across from him. Twilights jaw dropped in awe as she looked at the pegasus, this was THE Pansy? Besides the color of his coat and mane he didn’t seem like the weak and timid pegasus the legends said he was. Instead Twilight was looking at a tall muscled stallion that seemed to exude an aura of strength and command. Twilight shook her head trying to believe it, it seemed that sometime in the past somepony had decided to change the Lieutenant into something that matched his name.
Twilight trotted closer to get a better look at the stallion starting with his face; Pansy certainly did not seem timid. His face was that of a seasoned soldier and he sported a light scruff around his chin which matched sky blue mane. Like Bragg the pegasus had the eyes of a soldier but they seemed a bit softer. Twilight tore her gaze from the pegasi’s face to examine the rest of his body. Pansy was much taller than she would have though, similar in size to other stallions like Prince Blueblood or Big Macintosh. His coat was a light orange which complemented his mane well. Lastly like many of the guards around the palace he seemed really well built. Twilight shook her head as she realized she had been gravely mistaken to cast Fluttershy in his role during the play a few months ago.
“Yes, Lady Radiant.” At the sound Twilight tore her attention away from the Equestrian founder she had been examining and looked at the other unicorn in the room, Radiant. She was much more slender than Pansy and the way she had just spoken reminded Twilight of the many unicorns that lived in Caterlot. So proud and arrogant, it was one of things Twilight certainly did not miss about the city. Radiant‘s sudden sense of superiority however vanished quickly when she saw that it had no effect on Pansy “Um… Sir”
Twilight had heard that the unicorns of this time were snobbish, and Radiant’s actions indicated as much. Before the immigration to Equestria they had been the nobility of the old order, treating the other tribes like peasants only because they couldn’t use magic. Thankfully the unicorns changed their ways after moving to Equestria. Or so she thought; Radiant’s demeanor seemed suggest that not everypony was so willing to change.
“You’re a civilian, there is no need to address me like that,” Pansy muttered after setting down the papers on a table and turning to Radiant. “Now explain to me what exactly happened to you today. Do not skimp on any details, you’re already in enough trouble for leaving the settlement without telling anypony.” Twilight looked from Pansy to Radiant wondering what she had gotten in trouble for. She didn’t know what kind of laws were in place at this time in history but the books she had read on Equestrian law indicated that they had not changed much at all.
“Yes, of course.” Radiant made her way over to some cushions nearby before lying down. Behind her, Pansy carried some quills and inkwells to write everything down. "Now, where should I begin?"
“From the beginning of course” the Pegasus replied before taking the quill in his mouth and dipping it in ink.
“Alright, it all started this morning when I decided to get some herbs to restock my shop…” Twilight found herself a spot to lay down believing she would just need to listen to the unicorn’s tale before she felt the familiar feel of the world changing around her and everything faded to white.
Radiant smiled merrily as she made her way through the forest, behind her Twilight Sparkle sighed. She had just watched Radiant sneak out of the village taking note of her obvious distaste in getting by the pegasus guards stationed in and around Fillydelphia. It was frankly quite a shock to the lavender unicorn that anypony could be so… racist.
“It’s perfect!” she laughed lightly. Twilight just rolled her eyes in response; Radiant wasn’t even trying to be stealthy, she was acting like a filly in a playground. If this forest was anything like the Everfree there was probably no shortage of deadly animals that might harm her. Twilight still couldn’t determine why Radiant had been so determined to sneak out here alone.
The pair continued their stroll through the woods for about an hour before stopping in in a clearing twilight found earily familiar; it was the same one that Bragg and Joseph had found evidence of Victors attack. Twilight frowned; it appeared she was going to witness the true first encounter between ponies and humans. The unicorn couldn’t figure out though how Radiant was going to subdue Victor; she didn’t seem to have any special magic beyond levitation and possibly healing magic. Twilight believed that Radiant was some sort of healer within the village, using herbs and poultices to heal the ill and her magic on those with more immediate needs. She could not determine for certain however as the usual method of determining a pony’s special talent was useless.
Neither of the two had cutie marks…
The absence of the markings had been surprising and Twilight made a mental note to ask William about it later. She hadn’t noticed earlier in the office with Radiant and Pansy but now it was obvious as she followed behind the other mare. None of these ponies knew what their special talent was, the realization was a disturbing one to Twilight. In her time cutie marks help guide a pony down the path that was right for them, these ponies didn’t have that…
Returning her attention to the other unicorn Twilight watched as she bent down to inspect a group of strange fungus growing on a rotting log. Intrigued the lavender unicorn trotted up beside her to look before frowning in disgust. That’s why she was here? Twilight recognized the mushroom in question from an old book she had acquired about extinct plants and animals in Equestria. The fungus had no healing qualities to speak of however when used with a specific spell it could be used to induce a euphoric state. In short the mushroom was a drug; not only was she witnessing the meeting between two species Twilight realized she was also witnessing what was probably the beginning of drug trafficking in Equestria.
*SNAP*
The sudden sound shook both Radiant and Twilight from their respective thoughts. The forest had grown silent, the sounds of birds and insects which had saturated the forest were now missing.
“Hello? Is anypony there?” Radiant asked a bit nervously; her horn lighting up with a soft yellow just in case its magic would be needed. As if in response, a creature stepped out from behind a tree causing the yellow unicorn to scream in fear at its appearance. Twilight gawked in horror as well, but for different reasons than Radiant. The human, Victor, was attired similarly to both Bragg and Joseph. However unlike the other two Victor’s hair was blonde and his face was much more angular and menacing. Then there were his eyes... Twilight had seen eyes like that before, on the manticore, the hydra, and the various adult dragons she had encountered with her friends. They were the eyes of a predator and a killer.
Twilight could have sworn Victor had said something, but whatever it was, she couldn’t understand. It seemed her understanding of the human language had disappeared now that she was no longer attached to one of their memories. Twilight watched as the human charged across the clearing towards Radiant causing her to scream. Closing her eyes the unicorn’s front hooves flailed about in self defense before hitting the human squarely between the legs causing him to double over in pain. A moment later Twilight watched as the man’s arm descended leaving a gash on her flank where her cutie mark would have been, Twilight hadn’t noticed it earlier but the human had a knife it seemed.
Gathering what strength she could, Radiant managed put some distance between herself and the human. Whatever Radiant had done to the human seemed to have injured it badly as it limped slowly towards the yellow unicorn. The damage didn’t seem permanent however and he seemed to be recovering slowly.
“You… you dare attack Lady Radiant...” she muttered. Victor again said something, but neither unicorn understood, and Radiant did not care. Focusing her magic she levitated a large rock behind Victor into the air.
“YOU! DIRTY! BARBARIAN!” Twilight gasped as with every word Radiant bashed the rock into Victor’s skull. After the third impact the he keeled over to the ground. The rock was now covered in blood as the Radiant put it back onto the ground. Breathing heavily, Radiant turned her attention from the human to examine her injury. The cut was not as deep as she had thought, but it was still quite a wound. Her horn began to glow again as she wove into a spell to stop the bleeding. Twilight could tell it was a temporary fix, but she guessed Radiant didn’t have the time to completely heal it out here.
A couple minutes passed as Radiant tried to catch her breath. Once again, her attention returned to the unconscious human. Now that it wasn’t trying to kill her the yellow unicorn approached Victor cautiously. Twilight watched her examine the body with much distaste before breaking out into laughter.
“Oh Radiant… You got yourself all worked up over something about as scary as an earth pony,” she giggled to herself while Twilights jaw dropped open from shock at what she heard. How could the ponies of this time be so different? Twilight shook her head trying to reassure herself. Maybe it was just Radiant; surely not everypony in this age was so bigoted.
Twilight watched as Radiant levitated Victors knife into her bag with the mushrooms before returning her attention to the human. He didn’t look that healthy, Twilight could tell as much from his ragged breaths and the amount of blood on both the rock and what was bleeding from his ears. He needed medical help soon. Twilight could see that Radiant was thinking the same thing before a disturbing grin broke out on her face. A moment later a yellow glow surrounded Victor as Radiant used her magic to levitate him a couple dozen centimeters in the air.
“Ooooh, Radiant you are going to be famous!” Radiant said in a singsong voice causing Twilight to facehoof. Radiant wasn’t worried about Victor at all, she just wanted to bring him back as a prize to show everypony. Sighing Twilight began to follow her before watching as the world around her dissolved into a void of white.
“So I was on my way to show you and the Mayor but a patrol of your soldiers intercepted me as I exited the forest,” Radiant huffed, she seemed to have relaxed quite a bit as she told her story to Pansy. “And you know what happened after that.”
Twilight gave her head a shake as she found herself back in Pansy’s office. Twilight herself didn’t know but she could piece together what had happened after yellow unicorn decided to leave the forest. Radiant had met up with a patrol of pegasi on her way back to the village, which explained the extra hoofprints Bragg and Joseph had found. No doubt they had taken Victor from Radiant and placed him somewhere safe.
“Right then, Miss Radiant, you can go home now, but I expect you to return here tomorrow morning an hour after sunrise. Ask for Corporal Summer Breeze, she will be supervising you as you serve your community service.” without another word Pansy placed the papers inside his desk before walking by an obviously stunned Radiant. Twilight couldn’t help but giggle at the look on the yellow unicorns face. She definitely deserved what was coming to her.
“Bu- But…” the unicorn managed to stammer out before Pansy reached the door. Pausing for a moment, the pegasus turned his head to look at her.
“The law is the law Radiant. It doesn’t matter if you discovered a new species, you’re still guilty. Just be glad that I’ve decided to ignore those questionable herbs you were gathering.” With that he left the office, surprisingly Twilight felt a tug as she was dragged outside also, it seemed she was no longer attached to Radiant.
It was already getting dark, the sun's colors giving the Pansy’s orange coat an interesting glow. Flaring his wings open he took to the skies, causing Twilight’s eyes to widen with worry. How was she supposed to follow him now? She couldn’t fly! Her worry was soon put to rest however as she began to levitate upwards following him. It felt weird, like she was resting on an invisible platform that was rising into the air to follow the pegasus. Grinning, Pansy paused his climb into the air to regard the small village below him. Twilight followed his gaze and smiled as well. It was certainly much larger than she had thought it would be, and it certainly did not seem to be less than ten years old. A village this size could easily fit over a thousand ponies.
“Lieutenant Pansy! Sir!” the sudden sound snapped Twilight back to reality before she turned to regard the pegasus in full combat gear that had joined Pansy
“Yes private?” Pansy barked, Twilight wasn’t sure but he noticed some discomfort in Pansy’s body language. He probably didn’t like being in a position of authority.
“Sir, sergeant Firewing and his patrol have just returned. They found another one of those creatures like the one that unicorn brought us earlier!” the private exclaimed with excitement. That must have been the patrol that found Joseph, Twilight figured as she looked over at Pansy. Pansy floated there in thought before turning around and heading back to the village as fast as he could, the private following close behind. Twilight gave a yelp of surprise as she was dragged along for the ride.
“What’s the creature's status?” he asked suspiciously as the pair touched down. Twilight hoped Joseph wasn’t hurt too bad. That pegasus that had attacked him seemed a bit rough.
“Conscious sir, just bruised around what we believe is its neck. The sergeant locked him up in a cage near the other one." Pansy nodded before heading off towards the town hall with Twilight in tow. Twilight wasn’t surprised; most town halls had a prison of sorts to deal with any extreme cases before they were sent to Canterlot. Usually they were empty as the Mayor and authorities were able to devise more creative punishments.
“Good. You may return to your duties” replied Pansy before returning the soldiers salute and entering the jail. Twilight followed and was surprised to see so many other ponies inside. In one corner a male Earth pony and a Unicorn stared into the two prison cells with worry while another group of pegasi stood guard.
“Sergeant, report!” Pansy snapped, causing the other pegasi to snap to attention. Twilight ignored them for the moment to look at the cell Victor was inside. He seemed much better than in the forest and she could detect that he was in a healing coma causing the lavender unicorn to sigh in relief. Somepony had made sure he was taken care of at least.
“Sir, we caught this one spying on the village from a nearby ledge. Private Lightning Twirl was the first one on the scene and subdued the creature before we arrived.” Pansy glanced over to the cell which Joseph was housed inside.
“Well done Sergeant. You and your men are dismissed, I expect a full report tomorrow morning” Firewing gave Pansy a momentary look of surprise before nodding and filing out with the other pegasus guards.
“Mayor Whistlebloom, your thoughts?” Pansy whispered to the earth pony which Twilight assumed was the mayor.
“We need to tell Canterlot. One of these things is scary enough but two? What if there’s a whole bunch of these things out there?” the mayor muttered, to which Pansy nodded in agreement before turning his attention to Joseph.
“You, what is your name? How many like you are there?” he yelled at the human trying to look as intimidating as possible, it certainly seemed to work, even without his full set of armor the pegasus was an imposing sight.
Joseph flinched and seemed stunned for a moment before saying something incomprehensible. Pansy sighed in annoyance. Beside him Twilight did the same, Joseph still sounded the same, only his words were completely garbled so she couldn’t make sense of it.
“We need a full diplomatic team and scientists…” Pansy muttered looking back at the mayor. The unicorn aide at his side nodded as her horn lit up and began furiously scribbling down what he was saying.
“And make sure somepony with them knows a translation spell.” He added before returning his gaze to the creature inside. A storm was coming and one didn’t need to be a pegasus to feel it... Twilight shivered at the feeling before the world began to dissolve around her again.
“The Second Harmonic council…” William said the moment Twilight reappeared in the void. Twilight blinked a couple times as her eyes readjusted to the light before turning her attention to the human.
“Yes. What was it?” Twilight asked only half paying attention. Her mind was elsewhere as she processed all that had just transpired.
“It is the event you now know as Hearth’s Warming Eve,” William replied smiling “When the three tribes discovered that they were not alone in moving to Equestria a summit was held in the hopes of preventing any hostilities from breaking out.” Twilight’s attention turned to William as he spoke of the event that was now legend in Equestria.
“But I thought it was just the six ponies who were involved? Why was it a summit?” She asked confused which caused William to chuckle.
“Hardly, those six ponies did play a very important role but they were not alone. Each tribe sent a delegation to try and solve the issue. It was very much like the first council meeting further north in the frozen wastelands. The difference however was that Pansy, Cookie, and Clover that managed to coerce the representatives into peace; they had been ignored in the First Council.” William lectured as he looked at Twilight with amusement.
“And the Windigoes?” she asked
“Oh they exist, nasty things. The windigoes did attack the summit and do feed off of disharmony but they don’t have the ability to affect the climate of an entire continent. Pansy, Cookie and Clover were able to use the Windigoes as an analogy to show just how their infighting was destroying them all,” William explained. Twilight just shook her head in confusion. This was nothing like the legend at all. William sighed as he noticed her confusion before continuing, “Twilight, legends rarely survive the passage of time intact. If you decide to stick around you’ll find that the events around Discord reign and Luna’s banishment were not as cut and dry as you would imagine.”
Twilight sighed and nodded in understanding. Maybe William was right, maybe everything was not as simple as she thought.
“Wait, Discord and Luna?” Twilight asked confused... Those events were decades if not centuries after the immigration to Equestria “How would you know about that? How old are you?” William would have to be ancient to have witnessed them. Looking at him now Twilight could tell he looked no older than Joseph or Bragg.
“I wondered when you would ask that,” The man replied turning away from Twilight. Frowning in annoyance she trotted around in front of him.
“I’m not like other humans… Of course that’s obvious, not many humans can do magic after all but there is more to it.” He replied looking down into Twilights eyes causing her to shiver;they no longer seemed normal but instead twinkled with a gleam of ancient wisdom like the eyes of her mentor Princess Celestia.
“Celestia doesn’t just turn anyone to stone Twilight Sparkle. You need to be special.”
“What do you mean?” Twilight pressed trying to get more out of William. Was he an immortal then? Like the Princesses, and Discord?
“I will tell you in time Ms. Sparkle. Now is not right,” William answered cryptically before closing his eyes with a sigh “You must be getting sleepy, maybe we should take a break for now.” He continued before opening his eyes again, Twilight frowned as they seemed to have returned to normal, no longer did they twinkle with that spark of ancient wisdom they had moments earlier.
Sighing that her question wouldn’t be answered Twilight nodded in agreement she was getting tired but…
“Um… How can I sleep? I mean there’s no bed and the light is so strong” Twilight asked causing William to laugh again.
“Remember what I said when we first came here Ms. Sparkle? This is your mind, use your imagination,” he replied with a grin before waving his arms across the vast expanse. “This world is like a canvas for you to paint upon, so get to it!”
Twilight frowned in confusion for a moment before she understood. Nodding she closed her eyes imagining one of the most familiar places she knew.
“Not bad… Not bad at all,” Twilight heard William mutter before opening her eyes to find… her library. It looked exactly the same as how she left it, dirty dishes and all. “There is room for improvement though.” Looking around she saw William had pulled a book off the shelves and was flipping through it.
“What? What’s wrong?” she asked before the human spun the book around causing the unicorn to gasp. The pages were empty!
“Little details really, the curtains over there suffer a similar fate; they’re stuck,” Williams answered amused at her reaction. “But I must say you did really well for a first try. Now time for bed, your mind has absorbed alot today, and a good night’s sleep would do you good.”
Twilight frowned at his words. She had so many more questions to ask though. Why was Radiant so arrogant? Where was everyponies cutie mark? What happened to Bragg?
“Don’t worry. I’ll still be here when you wake up. Not like I have anywhere to go,” William chuckled deeply before finding a seat to relax in.
“Fine… But you need to answer my questions tomorrow ok?” she replied before heading off up the stairs toward her bed frowning when she saw that Spike’s bed was empty.
“Very well Ms. Sparkle. Goodnight!” William called out from downstairs. Smiling Twilight rushed over to her bed and jumped right in before groaning in pain. The mattress was rock solid!
“It’s the details that matter Ms Sparkle, the details…”
New chapter, a couple of things to note I've taken some liberties with the Hearth's Warming Eve story, some ponies changing gender/personality and the actual events surrounding the holiday changing. I just find it hard to believe that the play performed hundreds of years later would be completely accurate (especially one meant to appeal to every denomination of pony society). Anyway enjoy ^^
476448
YOU! YES, YOU!!!
YOU ARE WRITING A AMAZING STORY!!! KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK
I don't mind the changes... But I'm pretty open minded about this sort of stuff. I'm kind of disappointed that we didn't get any story from the human perspective but I'm sure that's coming, right?
476542 Of course. If you mean something of Victors pov then don't worry while it wont be written up hes not out of this story at all. As far as chapters go I'm trying to vary between a human focused one and a pony one.
I'm just going to guess that celestia and luna are just tyrants that killed off all of the humans and manipulate everyone into thinking that they are gods.
476595 I have that feeling too. You ever get a feeling your ansteors from the waay past killed off a race of inteligent animals just to be treated like gods? Hmmm.
Anyway keep up the good work.
I never feel happy to hear about ponies beating up Humans.
476645 Better stay away from my story then.....
(I apologize ahead of time Kalros for cluttering your comments with this response but I feel it is needed.)
473633 Look I haven't read these next chapters yet so I can't say whether I agree with any of your points about the story or the writing however your assertion that "Humans are extremely ill-equiped in terms of natural strengths and advantages" is downright wrong. Yes, humans are not particularly well equipped when it comes to strength or built-in weaponry but that does not mean they are weak. Humans have the almost the most efficient musculature out of any animal and are built for endurance. Our lack of hair and use of watery sweat allows us to cool off more easily than other animals so we can run for longer and dehydrate before overheating. We are endurance runners and have used that to work faster and stronger prey to exhaustion. Moreover, because of our above-average eyesight for animals (yes birds and others beat us but that is besides the point) our hand-eye coordination is great for throwing things far and accurately. We have a better ability to judge and utilize the landscape, such as climbing trees, thanks to all of this. Perhaps none of this would help in a straight-up fight but it is certainly something to consider.
My point is, appearances are deceiving. Humans are far more physically dangerous than they appear. The intelligence came after our other abilities allowed us to survive and thrive in a world that has frankly always been a deathtrap. This whole notion that humans are weak and survive solely through intelligence is silly. Humans are still largely run by both instinct and learned intelligence so, if necessary, could survive in the wild. Humans would not have dominated the world otherwise.
I'm sorry, I get your point, but really I cannot stand when people do not understand this. If you find some reason to disagree with me then by all means go ahead. I've made my point and you deserve to make yours.
477039
Debate! Yes! :D I'll make my point, but I am by no means as polite as you are. You know, just as a note.
Yes, humans are not particularly well equipped when it comes to strength or built-in weaponry but that does not mean they are weak.
Okay, first of all, if you are not strong, you are weak. There may be a middling area of the spectrum, but such is not applicable where humans are concerned. We are weak in comparison to a fair portion of the animal kingdom, most particularly the ones capable of doing us serious bodily harm. Pay attention to what you say, and use that damn Homo sapiens sapiens brain of yours, if you're going to use human intelligence in an argument where I specifically ruled it out earlier on. -_-
As far as musculuture, you are somewhat correct. In our natural state, humans have the most efficient gait in the entirety of the animal kingdom; we can walk down a freaking gazelle, if needbe. However, the key to that sentence is "in our natural state." You see, modern humans now have two factors working against that. Firstly, our shoes have adjusted our gait to be less efficient, and removed the possibility for reasonable callous buildup on our soles, to say nothing of the damage caused by high heels. Secondly, most humans nowadays sit on our asses; this is bad, because we're squashing the large muscles in our butts which are intended for walking. Ever notice how those native Africans, the ones that still live in tribal, non-tech conditions have such well-toned and developed asses? That's because they do what you're supposed to be doing: when you'd sit down, they squat, as our natural ancestors would have done. Continuing on my second point, the ass muscles typically used for walking aren't being utilized effectively anymore, and we use some of our back muscles to help compensate. I'm sure you've seen a lot of people leaning forward slightly as they walk.
As for the rest regarding muscles, we are severely lacking, and no argument can possibly be brought against that, because it is unquestionable fact.
Our lack of hair and use of watery sweat allows us to cool off more easily than other animals so we can run for longer and dehydrate before overheating.
This is only useful in hot/arid climates; sweat-based cooling can be a deadly hazard in cooler areas, and our lack of hair only exacerbates that problem. We are best adapted to warm climates, no doubt about it. Stick a human somewhere cold, and he's fucked. This is of course ignoring those human groups that had long time to prepare/adapt to colder climates, and even then only would have survived due to our large brains. However, that's bringing intelligence into an argument when it was ruled out in my earliest statement.
To counter your idea of throwing things, need I point out that our forward-oriented eyes developed as a response to the need for depth perception while running around in trees, not as a result of some great and instinctive desire to throw shit? Additionally, to use throwing objects with accuracy, you must again bring our intelligence into this argument. -_- Quit doing that.
...Same problem with the whole "judge the landscape" thing.
My point is, appearances are deceiving. Humans are far more physically dangerous than they appear.
Your point is very blunt, and no, we aren't. -_- Our danger and power is based on our intelligence, not our physical abilities (though hands do make marvelous tools when combined with intellect). If such were the case, we'd be able to naturally set off a nuclear reaction, or spit pieces of bone accurately at supersonic speeds. When humans are able to do something like that, then I'll consider this particular "point" of yours valid.
This whole notion that humans are weak and survive solely through intelligence is silly.
It is a correct notion. The modern human survives largely from foods and such that are imported from other lands or manufactured on a massive scale. Our cities are completely unable to support themselves due to their large population that has no knowledge of hunting or agriculture, and even if the entirety of New York were to suddenly learn how to hunt and fish and farm, there wouldn't be enough land or animals to support such a dense population center. It is our intelligence that keeps the global economay running, that keeps our food transport ships moving, and keeps electricity flowing. Take away that intelligence, and you'd have mass extinction all across the board.
Humans are still largely run by both instinct and learned intelligence so, if necessary, could survive in the wild. Humans would not have dominated the world otherwise.
The erroneous nature of this statement made me laugh. I'm sorry, but it did. Tell me, how long has it been since the majority of the human population lived in an uncivilized state? Several thousand years or so? How long since we last lived in self-sufficient family groups that led short, harsh lives in hostile environments? Our species, on the whole, is no longer equipped to survive in an uncivilized state. While it is true that our intellectual abilities developed after the primary functions of our bodies, over time that intelligence has overtaken our physical abilites as an evolutionary priority. Compared to the strength/physique of our ancestors, modern humans are much less gifted in that respect.
Do you even know what our species name means? No? It means, "wise, wise man." You would do well to live up to that, methinks.
Now, go forth, and take a few anthropology courses, study a bit of human physiology and evolutionary history, and do some research papers.
Herp-a-derp.
"if you got human problems I fell bad for you son, I got ninety-nine problems but a smelly ruffian ain't one". :S
Definately looking forward to where this is going
Sweet, another update. I'm really enjoying the story so far.
Have a good one.
473633
The reason that humans are physically weaker is not because we have less muscle mass but because how our nervous system controls our muscles. A chimp weighs about 100 pounds, but they are stronger then a 230 pound man with 5% body fat because human's are much more dexterous and have a greater control over their body and muscles then a chimp or any other animal can have. A chimp can't throw or handle a stick or tool efficiently compared to humans. They are physically incapable of having this motor control because of a lack of motor neurons in their spines. But that motor control comes at the price of strength since each neuron would control less muscle fibers meaning it would take more effort to use our more independently controlled muscles to achieve the levels of strength that a chimp can do easily.
We've seen ponies in the show move their limbs with much more flexibility then any real equine could hope to. They can also throw stuff with their hooves with accuracy, balance on their hind legs and do other tasks showing a degree of motor control similar to that of a human. It would make sense then that ponies in the show would be a great deal weaker then real ponies because muscle control comes at the price of strength. Unless we are going with the idea that earth pony strength stems from some kind of passive magic which is an idea I've seen used in other fics, then yeah they would be stronger then us.
477618
you are kind if arrogant. may I say that?
478037
Huh. Learn something new every day. I'll have to look into that point, because it's very intriguing. Not quite sure how dexterity reduces muscular efficiency/ability, so I guess this makes for an interesting research opportunity. ^_^ Thanks for the info.
...And as for the latent/passive Earth pony magic, that's what I had assumed in the case of this argument, even without the lack of human physical ability.
478580
Ew, no. "Arrogant" is too damn polite. Try "pretentious @$$hole," or something more along those lines (extra points if you actually use "@$$").
477618 Most of your points are valid. Certainly, the modern human is not equipped to survive in the wild. Also, yes, our main feature that keeps our societies alive today is our intelligence. If we did not have that, our species would not have grown to what it is now. Our creativity greatly helps define what we are as a species.
As for this, "To counter your idea of throwing things, need I point out that our forward-oriented eyes developed as a response to the need for depth perception while running around in trees, not as a result of some great and instinctive desire to throw shit?"
You are correct. That is exactly why we have such good eyesight. My point was not that it came as a result of throwing things but that we simply have good eyesight and we use it. Good eyesight could help for survival. If I made that unclear I apologize.
When I was saying humans are not weak, I meant weak as in helpless. Humans are not helpless. Bad choice of words on my part.
All the features I was listing was to prove that there are things besides our intelligence that help us survive in the wild. The "watery sweat" thing was about endurance. Yes, humans could not survive in the cold without utilizing another animal's fur.
But all that is besides the point. You have asserted that the only thing that keeps humans alive is their intelligence. A will say again, that's downright silly. The brain consumes a ton of energy. A species that is not successful would not be able to spare the energy that could have allowed the brain to develop to its current state. You're argument was "Our only redeeming quality is our extremely developed intelligence; if we had only our instincts to rely on, with none of our sentient/higher functions to put to use, our species would be doomed to extinction very quickly." Which ignores the fact that man could not have got to where they are now without some features besides "is smart." Something had to come before that intelligence.
Also, do not bring modern man into this thinking it proves your point. You saying if we plop a human from a city down into the wild they are screwed. That is true. But if you take an wild animal and chuck them into a city they are also screwed. That does not prove anything. The point is not "What can a human born and raised to survive in the modern industrialized world do?" but instead "What can a human as an animal do?" That was the point I was trying to make. Again, it is not "What do we do?" but "What can we do?" Our DNA was developed over millions of years and has not suddenly and dramatically changed in the last couple of thousand years thanks to creating civilizations.
Also, you attribute far too much to intelligence. "Throwing shit" does not take a great deal of brain power. Picking up a stick and stabbing something, does not take a great deal of brain power. As proven by wolves, hunting in a pack and defending the group does not take a great deal of brain power. There are a ton of things that can be done for survival that do not take a ton of creativity.
I'm not saying humans could or would win a fight against these ponies. I am saying that, as a species, we are much better than most give us credit for. We have a lot of things going for us besides our brain. If we did not, we could not have gotten to our current state.
Again, you should make your counterargument and then we should stop it there. At this point, my goal is not to convince you. It is only to make a point that I hope other readers will agree with. I believe I have done that. I merely thought it was fair for you to respond to any of my arguments, which you did... with a strong dash of unneeded insults.
And so finally, let me be blunt. Stop using insults. They are a waste of text that detract from your argument. People are not going to believe you or even listen to you (even when you are correct) if you keep insulting me and everyone else you speak with. Part of the thing I like about this fandom is that the vast majority of us recognize that you don't need to be crude to express yourself. Kalros did not have to listen to you at all but he did respond even when you were exceptionally rude. You do not have to stop what you are doing but in return no one will respect you. That will be the consequence.
"It was almost criminal that Princess Platinum had the nerver usurp her father and then change the direction of the kingdom!"
umm... is the nerver some sort of bad-ass monster, or just a hilarious mistake
480031
*insert very wide grin somewhere in this general area* Screw toleration. I hereby love the fuck out of you! :D
Well, it’s good to know that you understand my side of the argument. It means that I’m able to transmit my point fairly well, and with little need of post-argument clarification. I think that a large part of your difficulties in getting a point across is that your intended meaning is not stated clearly enough to be noted by a reader. While I do appreciate the virtues of concise language, and a lack of unnecessary flair, your writing style does not seem to effectively utilize your vocabulary and the English language as a medium. You tend not to explicitly state points and ideas where it would be most effective against your verbal/written opponent, and instead beat around the bush. This is where I recommend you seek out a persuasive writing or journalism course, since I’ve found that those are very helpful in allowing you to make the most of your lingual repertoire, with as little nonsense involved as possible. Still, I enjoyed it, so good show, eh? ^_^
Another thing that I feel may be causing you a bit of grief regarding your argument is that you’re thinking with a human, rather than evolutionary or environmental, perspective. That is to say, you are not taking into account the lack of intelligence involved in the stated scenarios, and simply assume that the “feral” humans described would understand, anticipate, and react with that same intelligence. Of course, that can be paralleled to the systems argument: We are so deeply rooted in the human system that we are unable to think of any effective system other than. Oh, well.
Humans, all things considered, are probably the least helpless species on this planet, because of our intelligence. Otherwise, we’d either be extinct, or, at the very least, not even close to being the dominant species. Our intelligence is what defines our species in these modern times (by which I mean, the past few thousand years); no human being on this Earth survives without some contact with an invention or ideal that resulted from our intellectual abilities, and very few live without significant contact in that regard.
Oh, dear, you’re misconstruing my point. In the past, we may have been able to survive without our most definitive feature, but now that is no longer the case. Our only redeeming quality now is our intelligence, because our species as it is now would be unable to survive and flourish without it. I can understand that man had to first survive long enough for our sentience to develop, but a large portion of my argument is focused on the fact that we’ve lost much of what allowed us to survive before our intelligence arrived. Now, if we only had our instincts to rely on, we wouldn’t survive for very long, or we would very quickly be subject to a large-scale population decline.
Also, you speak as though the time and effort put into the evolutionary development of the human brain was intentionally allocated to that end; there was no intent involved. Evolution provided man with a large brain as a way to assist in his survival in a hostile environment, not as some gift that comes from surviving in the first place. Not to mention how damn long it took for our sentience to fully develop. If such were as you are stating it, then we can expect coelacanths, sharks, and algae to start developing large, sentient brains. *eye roll* Again, clarity issues. If you think I am intentionally twisting your words, you are somewhat correct; however, that’s only because you left the opportunity.
No, if you plop a human from a city in the wild, they are not necessarily screwed; this is because they have the intelligence of a modern human at their disposal. Building shelter and hunting are not all that difficult, even without a firearm or construction tools. Grasses can be used for rope, stone for axes and foundations, wood and stone for spears and knives. However, if you took away that same man’s ability to reason, then he is screwed, because he no longer is able to draw off the knowledge and abilities granted with sentience. :P
A rat would do just fine in a city, same with a coyote or a squirrel. How’s about pigeons? Again, clarity issues. Just saying “animal” leaves a massive amount of room for me to go wild. Pigeons, coyotes, rats, cockroaches, cats, etc, are all animals that could survive in a city with relative ease, and do in many cases. Even rural beasts, which have little to no urban exposure, are well-adapted enough that they are capable of surviving there.
Look, a human as an animal can no longer be distinctly classified as human in the first place, because it largely is our intelligence that defines us as a species. If you were to take away that intelligence, we would no longer have several thousand years’ worth of shared experiences and development. It is true that our DNA has not greatly changed; I was not arguing such as a point. What is true is that our intelligence has revolutionized how we live. Standards of living nowadays are godlike in comparison to our ancestors, and we have lost much of those arts necessary to our survival in the ancient past. Tell me, do you know how to flint knap? Simply put, our intelligence is both our greatest asset and our greatest flaw (ignoring our fascination with atomic, doomsday weapons). Our intelligence is what allowed us to advance as far as we have as a species, but that same intelligence now deems those arts necessary to our survival in the past obsolete, as we work under the assumption that there will be no more Dark Ages, where we’d be forced to start from scratch. However, I digress.
Attribute too much to intelligence? Oh, the horror! Firstly, throwing shit takes a hell of a lot of brain power. You must be able to interpret an object as a projectile, that is, something to be launched through the air with the intent of coming into (often harmful) contact with another object. This requires being able to recognize that the object in question can be used as such, and can be sent flying through the air as a result of your actions. Typically, this is a learned behavior, which factors into intelligence. Additionally, if you want any hope of being able to accurately hit what you want with whatever shit you’re throwing, you must be able to calculate when it will be necessary to release the object in question.
As for a stick: You must be able to recognize that an object, when wielded, is capable of doing more harm than you are with your fists, or is able to extend your reach beyond the range of your opponent. You must appreciate the fact that a stick can pierce the target’s protective layers (skin, fur, carapace, etc.). Not to mention the fact that you must have some understanding of the entire concept of stabbing. A pointy stick is better than a dull stick, for stabbing. This of course leads into sharpening and the use of stone, but I’ll leave that hornets’ nest be.
Not a lot of brainpower involved, huh? I call bullshit.
Need I point out that wolves are very intelligent animals? Perhaps not so much as dogs or primates, but they are much better about that sort of thing than most. Additionally, they are pack animals by instinct only; they didn’t think it out at all, so you can’t bring brainpower into that particular area. Of course, that could just be stemming from more clarity issues, but I’m getting bored with citing that problem. Meh. *shrugs*
I’ve lost any interest in the whole argument of humans versus ponies. XD This is far too much fun.
Insults, on the whole, are completely unnecessary. They serve little to no positive purpose in human society, and are only meant to harm, irritate, or otherwise exacerbate annoyance into anger, and cause those subject to them to lose focus. “Unneeded insults,” therefore, is more than slightly redundant. XD
Now then, with regards to my causticity:
I’m truly shocked that you consider this insulting. Shocked! I mean, seriously? Just how thin-skinned are you? How do you go about your daily life without breaking into fits of manic sobbing because someone calls you a moron? God, man, I’ve barely said anything particularly offensive and you’re insulted.
Damn it, now I’m insulted! How could you possibly imply that you’re insulted, when I’ve been relatively pacific and less than viciously acidic throughout this entire conversation? To think that a debater such as yourself is offended by what little I’ve said…. I am shocked! Outraged!
In any event, back to being reasonably serious. Okay, so you’re apparently thin-skinned. With that in mind, I would highly recommend that you start building up a tolerance by exposing yourself to acidic wit, insults, and various other sundry offensive material, as you are bound to meet people in your real life that are far worse about that sort of thing than I am. Plus, I’d rather not think that I’m conversing with a future conservative super-religious soccer mom. Ugh. *shudders*
If Kalros doesn't want to listen to me, that's his loss. I really don't have a fuck to give, since I'm just offering what help I can, in one of the manners I best know how to give it. Of course, as I recall, he did say that he'd take my concerns into consideration, so my endeavors have been successful. *shrugs* I may be a crude, abrasive, unkind jackass, but that does not mean I don't have my concerns, hopes, and love for the MLP fanfic community. If it makes it easier, think of me as that one moron that can't properly express himself, eh? ^_^
You made my day with the whole “no one will respect you” statement. :D Kiddo, if I honestly cared what people thought about me, I wouldn't be a brony. I wouldn't be here chatting with you, and I would tone down what I say for the sake of some random person's feelings, instead of being the blunt, honest individual that I am. Let me make this very clear: I don't give a damn about what other people think, and I'm not about to censor my beliefs and ideals for the sake of someone's feelings. I care in my own way. You can care in yours.
Thank you so much for the intelligent discussion. It was fun. :)
480854 Fixed. Should be nerve. How i missed that...
Now
480890
480031
If you two are going to continue this discussion please take it elsewhere? one more text wall and im just going to delete it all. Use my user comment section if you want to, I actually like reading what your both saying its just its cluttering up this area.
480935
Damn. Sorry about that. I tend to get a tad carried away when it comes to this sort of thing. XD I'll c/p my previous argument into a comment, so Sinderen7 can reply to it there, if you'd prefer?
...Nerver? I need to read this chapter. 8D
this this is perfect i dont need moar chapters because i can read these all over again
i wish for longer chapters...
477618
well, you see, your whole theory about humans is partially correct in a way; intelligence is our greatest weapon of all (if we have any), but your logic is built on suddenly placing a casual scrawny NY citizen into wilderness, if humans have the time to adjust, they will be quite stronger, as for freezing to death, no "sopian" being is stupid enough to run out naked in the cold if i may say, our bodies are quite capable of the impossible to sustain themselves if pushed to the limits.
483740 PLease take it somewhere else if your going to debate this. Theres enough text blocks in the comment sections and id rather not add to it.
On another note for everyone. I will be doing a rewrite of the story over the next couple days. I submitted this for review at the training grounds and got allot of great suggestions and feedback. One idea im really liking and want to use but requires me to go back and modify chapters 1 and 2 to make it work.So dont expect anything until later this week.
All of the walls of text... read...them...all...was...very...amused...now...tired....great....chapter.....hope....ponies...aren't....assholes.....'cause that be fairly cliche. Keep up the great work!
Translation spell?
OH NO YOU DON'T!!!
Them lazy ponies should figure this one out by themselves!
(Great chapter, by the way. )
I am looking forward to learn about humans role in equestrian history.
Just so everyone knows I've done a rewrite of the existing chapters and chapter 3 should be plopping out later this week ^^
Chapter 3 can't come soon enough!
ouch.
530458
It's a little past later that week
Anywho, nice story, looking forward to more.
The more prereaders, the merrier.
And finally, that was quite the interesting side conversation in the comments.
Now this fic really holds great promise, can't wait for the comming chapters.
Anyone know if the author still working on this?
679813 I am,. I submitted the next chapter today for some pre reading and checking. Real life has kept me rather busy
679857
Understandable, just curious.
but there more to it.
your mind has absorbed allot today
1. But there is more to it.
2. Alot.
Now on to the next chapter!
Sorry if you've already addresed this. But did you retcon Chs' 1&2?
I reread them so i would be caught up for ch 3 but i swear they are diffrent then before.
Edit: Nevermind, read the header of the next chapter.