Twilight's appreciation for the beauty of the night sky has only increased with Luna's return, especially after they meet to discuss her latest addition. One meeting becomes two, becomes a regular outing, it's no wonder they would grow
6121257 Luna got more of a verbal spanking, and apologized rather than just breaking down; and Cadance actually listened to Celestia this time, rather than just ranting at her.
6121386 Ah thank you! That's going to set a better tone between the three, through its still going to be fragile between cadence and luna they might be able to be civil if nothing else.
I'm curious to see how celestia talks to twilight. I imagine its going to be a bit like defusing a minefield. How do you even approach this kinda topic?
Ah, this worked much better than the previous version. All hail the Landgrave!
I have to admit, though... Cadance really needs to learn when to keep her foal mouth closed and not blurt things out. Luna at least can respect the privacy inherent in her demesne.
6121132 Cadance figured out what's going on, Luna and Cadance don't like each other and have a tiff, then Cadance figures out that Luna doesn't actually love Celestia the way Celestia loves her but is giving her sister what she wants out of guilt, and thoughtfully blurts this out loud. Then Cadance shows Celestia that Twilight is terrible at handling rejection.
I have to wonder what Luna really has against Cadence, and vice versa.
Did they have a fight over who lov ed celestia more or something? Was it ever mentioned?
I mean, it seems weird that Cadence called Luna an egotistical bitch or whatever, since she and Twilight got along pretty well after a meeting or two. And besides ponies who are nobles, I don't think Lunas ever been rude to anyone in the story.
6122503 Being a thousand years out of date, culturally, I imagine Luna strikes Cadance as being very aloof and arrogant; the Nightmare Moon thing doesn't help, either.
Please, please learn the difference between "thy" and "thine". It's the same as "a" and "an". An apple, a banana. Thine apple, thy banana. Mine apple, my banana, for that matter. You're too good a writer to be making that mistake.
As a possessive determiner (like "your" or "my" or "mine" (archaic, following the rule you provide)), yes. But if you want a possessive pronoun, no. In that case it is always "thine", no matter what follows (e.g. "The day is thine, the night also is thine: thou hast prepared the light and the sun" (Psalm 74:16, King James Version)).
I think this version flows better and makes more sense with the characters we've known and seen in previous chapters. Celestia doesn't let herself be walked over and it was good to see her assert her authority as the oldest of the family and by default the peacekeeper. Her genuine care for Cadence as her niece is clear, but at the same time so is her love for her sister. The conflict between the two worked better and the ending of the chapter is much better as well. I've always found the "I'm sorry - No you're not" line painfully cringeworthy in any story it pops up and I'm glad to see it go. Instead we get something much more believable and sensible: Celestia sees the matter with Twilight has become a mess and is not as handled as she had thought and vows to solve the problem. That is Celestia. That I like.
I feel the conflict between Luna and Cadance also worked better with the addition of a brief summary of their past history, but as a whole it still just feels weird to me. This has nothing to do with your writing or the story itself, so I would not have you worry about that. It just clashes with the image I have of the two from the show; Cadance and Luna have been on screen together and there was no visible animosity between them, certainly not to the sheer loathing, nearly pure hatred, the two display for one another here.
I think my problem with that partly lies with Luna. After all these chapters where we have seen her make progress to acclimate herself to modern times and making efforts to befriend Twilight, seeing her fall back to this hate-spewing, disdainful, antagonising person is jarring. Like a bucket of cold water after a nice warm shower. Again, my difficulty lies in rhyming this Luna with the Luna who casually talked with Twilight and Applejack during Nightmare Night in "Luna Eclipsed". They are like two entirely different ponies. Not to mention that I really felt that she went way out of line in this chapter and I do hope Celestia or anypony serves her that on a big plate.
Knowingly antagonising the one pony you know can detect your relationship, mocking her, insulting her, transforming into Nightmare Moon, forcefully casting her husband into sleep and teleporting him away, gauding her into physically attacking you and then striking her down? No. Hell no, Luna. Inexcusable doesn't even begin to describe what you did here and apologising, while a nice start, is far too little to make up for this stunt you pulled. You can praise your lucky stars Celestia was there to stop you or lord knows what sort of complete and utter familial and diplomatic nightmare you would have ended up creating for, again, your sister. Luna really ought to know better and I sincerely hope she doesn't get away with this with a mere verbal slap on the hoof and a heartless, forced apology.
Mind you, I am not saying this to make you take the chapter down and rewrite it again, not at all. The chapter now, is fine as it is. I am just commenting on the events that happened in it now from my own perspective. Conflict has happened in this chapter and I am very interested in reading how it will be resolved. So please, don't think you have to change it again; it's perfect as it is now. I just hope that the missteps the characters made in this chapter will get the consequences and treatment they deserve. What Luna did here was wrong and I am not really sympathetic with her in the slightest in this chapter, I hope to see her face the consequences.
Luna aside, I think you set down the inner conflict Cadance felt about her discovery of her aunt's relationship, her inability to get pregnant and her worry for her aunt really well. You have a masterful way of writing emotions and Cadance here was just another example of that. I personally think you did well on her and I do find her reaction to her aunt's relationship believable. She does bring up some good points and some inevitable facts that Celestia will have to face. For all that we, the audience, like it, there's no denying that in-universe society isn't exactly jumping to shout "Yay, princest is wincest!" here.
Good stuff, eager to see where it goes. Shit hit the fan this chapter, but I don't think the fan is done spinning just yet, as we have Celestia going to face Twilight next chapter. A Twilight dealing with heartbreak, doubts, suspicions and a recent confrontation with incestuous sisters. Something tells me it's not going to go smoothly.
EDIT: I read in the comments that Cadance implied in this chapter that Luna doesn't really 'love' love Celestia and that she's going along with Celestia's feelings out of guilt. I really hope that's not the case but if it is damn that's gonna break Celestia's heart.
6122257 If you've read the previous story and any of the chapters focused on Luna, you'll know how wrong that is.
612250361220506122776 Luna and Cadance's mutual dislike is based on multiple pieces of head canon about their personalities and how they would clash. It boils down to how Cadance is a very 'Disney' princess and Luna is not. After the first misunderstanding, every thing the other does and says would be viewed in a negative light to the point that even a "Good morning" could come off as jab or sarcastic.
They are never going to be friends, civil, maybe, but never friends.
6129437 My excuse for the way they act here as opposed to the show is based on the differences of situation. Most importantly, Luna was entirely absent from Cadance's wedding until the end of the reception. To me, this is the most telling. Days after Chrysalis' defeat, Luna didn't make time to be in attendance. While this could otherwise explained, I like mine. Their other interactions have been limited to merely being on screen at the same time and participating in a song. They've never spoken, as far as I can recall not interacted in a meaningful way. None of these prove much either way as very few people can't at least act civilly when others are around, especially someone like Twilight. The major difference here is two fold. One is that they are alone, there is no need to maintain any pretense within the privacy of the Solarium. Two is that the cat is already out of the bag. Luna is not one for hiding her opinions as it is, except by simply remaining silent. In a longer, more well planned out story, the dissonance of Luna's company dependant behavior would have been better showcased.
As to your annoyance with Luna, I completely agree. From all outward appearances, she was completely in the wrong.
In regards to your edit:... Really? You of all people think I would do something so heartless to the purest love to ever exist? I am both insulted and disappointed[1].
In regards to your edit:... Really? You of all people think I would do something so heartless to the purest love to ever exist? I am both insulted and disappointed[1].
I didn't really believe it, myself, though I admit I got a bit confused by the comments. Admittedly it is strange that Luna would react so strongly towards Cadance's claim when all she did so far towards Cadance in the chapter was mock and humiliate her. Even when Cadance accused her of ensnaring her sister with magic, Luna laughed it off. But when Cadance claims she doesn't really love Celestia, she flips out? O.o That struck me as rather odd because, well, accusing one to magic her sister's heart or accusing one to not really love her sister seem to imply the same thing to me, namely, that their love is fake. Yet Luna reacted so differently both times to what was basically the same accusation... Curious.
Because maybe Cadence 's second accusation is true? She is the Alicorn of Love, so her judgement in such matters carries enormous weight. Sadly, Celly is too love-struck /in denial to accept this.
Luna's a bitch. Immediately go in for the 'I'm totally evil, whatcha gonna do' ploy even when she... damn that was a messed up thing to do. it was awesome though so I'm okay with it. Also, ensorcell may be my new favorite word... ensorcell.... ensorcell.
Oh and uh.... plot, holy shit I thought things were bad before, but now Love princess knows and doesn't approve. Cadance is gonna be trouble, but still not nearly as much as Twilight. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go back to figure out what was on that scroll.
You speak interesting ideas, like the princesses are an example to follow for everypony in Equestria; but buck me Nightmare if I fully accept and approve the circumstances you put them ponies in. Well, a bitter drink may happen to be a cure, but it seems to be a bit over the top sometimes. Were those words of the Princess of Love? And everypony's got so depressive (like if Twilight is not enough)… they should call Pinkie before it's too late.
Why such delay with the next chapter? All of us are extremely interested what's gonna happen now when someone knows about The-Most-Secret-Secret of Luna and Celestia
Agreed, I can't wait to wear the next chapter. I've been reading this piece in my free time. And it's quite interesting how the world would react to such a feast. None the less, thank you for such an amazing story =]
Never was, yeah. I just maybe wanted it to be that non-happy story in which alicorns don't shout at each other like that. As this story (interesting on its own) is beyond my competence I think I should cease further commenting.)
6402892 It's nice to get an outsider perspective on this. It really reinforces that I'm going in the right direction... not necessarily the direction you would like, but the right one nonetheless.
6418617 Does it account for siblings who feel in love before they found out, or never found out (though I suppose that would be difficult to find), and can you account for a thousand years of no contact?
While I'm interested in the study, the truth is that it doesn't matter in the slightest because I will be able to come up with any justifications I want that you simply cannot account for. Also, why would you need to gather all of that? Isn't it hosted by a scientific journal?
Ok, what just happened?
You can't help who you love.
Its been a while since I read the old version of this chapter, I think the self loathing comment is new, and the bit about Luna's birth.
I could be misremembering though.
Anyone see what's changed exactly?
6121257
Luna got more of a verbal spanking, and apologized rather than just breaking down; and Cadance actually listened to Celestia this time, rather than just ranting at her.
6121386
Ah thank you!
That's going to set a better tone between the three, through its still going to be fragile between cadence and luna they might be able to be civil if nothing else.
I'm curious to see how celestia talks to twilight. I imagine its going to be a bit like defusing a minefield. How do you even approach this kinda topic?
6121430 Crawling slowly on your belly while poking at the ground with a knife?
6121257 Th part about luna's birth has been there, however the ending is new, and the self loathing as well.
Luna is still a bitch
Ah, this worked much better than the previous version. All hail the Landgrave!
I have to admit, though... Cadance really needs to learn when to keep her foal mouth closed and not blurt things out. Luna at least can respect the privacy inherent in her demesne.
6121132 Cadance figured out what's going on, Luna and Cadance don't like each other and have a tiff, then Cadance figures out that Luna doesn't actually love Celestia the way Celestia loves her but is giving her sister what she wants out of guilt, and thoughtfully blurts this out loud. Then Cadance shows Celestia that Twilight is terrible at handling rejection.
6122257 Ah
I have to wonder what Luna really has against Cadence, and vice versa.
Did they have a fight over who lov ed celestia more or something? Was it ever mentioned?
I mean, it seems weird that Cadence called Luna an egotistical bitch or whatever, since she and Twilight got along pretty well after a meeting or two. And besides ponies who are nobles, I don't think Lunas ever been rude to anyone in the story.
Ok now I get it ^^
Good thing I also where more awake when reading this time around.
Yeah the Luna/Cadence beef is fascinating.
Also, is Celestia just ignoring what Cadence said about Luna not having that kind of love or doesn't she believe Cadence.
6122776 if you read the surrounding sentence and context you will realize she was lying for that exact reason
6122503 Being a thousand years out of date, culturally, I imagine Luna strikes Cadance as being very aloof and arrogant; the Nightmare Moon thing doesn't help, either.
Please, please learn the difference between "thy" and "thine". It's the same as "a" and "an". An apple, a banana. Thine apple, thy banana. Mine apple, my banana, for that matter. You're too good a writer to be making that mistake.
6123185
Luna lying, Cadence lying or Celestia Lying?
6124789
As a possessive determiner (like "your" or "my" or "mine" (archaic, following the rule you provide)), yes. But if you want a possessive pronoun, no. In that case it is always "thine", no matter what follows (e.g. "The day is thine, the night also is thine: thou hast prepared the light and the sun" (Psalm 74:16, King James Version)).
6127949
Also true! But few people would erroneously say "The day is thy."
I think this version flows better and makes more sense with the characters we've known and seen in previous chapters. Celestia doesn't let herself be walked over and it was good to see her assert her authority as the oldest of the family and by default the peacekeeper. Her genuine care for Cadence as her niece is clear, but at the same time so is her love for her sister. The conflict between the two worked better and the ending of the chapter is much better as well. I've always found the "I'm sorry - No you're not" line painfully cringeworthy in any story it pops up and I'm glad to see it go. Instead we get something much more believable and sensible: Celestia sees the matter with Twilight has become a mess and is not as handled as she had thought and vows to solve the problem. That is Celestia. That I like.
I feel the conflict between Luna and Cadance also worked better with the addition of a brief summary of their past history, but as a whole it still just feels weird to me. This has nothing to do with your writing or the story itself, so I would not have you worry about that. It just clashes with the image I have of the two from the show; Cadance and Luna have been on screen together and there was no visible animosity between them, certainly not to the sheer loathing, nearly pure hatred, the two display for one another here.
I think my problem with that partly lies with Luna. After all these chapters where we have seen her make progress to acclimate herself to modern times and making efforts to befriend Twilight, seeing her fall back to this hate-spewing, disdainful, antagonising person is jarring. Like a bucket of cold water after a nice warm shower. Again, my difficulty lies in rhyming this Luna with the Luna who casually talked with Twilight and Applejack during Nightmare Night in "Luna Eclipsed". They are like two entirely different ponies. Not to mention that I really felt that she went way out of line in this chapter and I do hope Celestia or anypony serves her that on a big plate.
Knowingly antagonising the one pony you know can detect your relationship, mocking her, insulting her, transforming into Nightmare Moon, forcefully casting her husband into sleep and teleporting him away, gauding her into physically attacking you and then striking her down? No. Hell no, Luna. Inexcusable doesn't even begin to describe what you did here and apologising, while a nice start, is far too little to make up for this stunt you pulled. You can praise your lucky stars Celestia was there to stop you or lord knows what sort of complete and utter familial and diplomatic nightmare you would have ended up creating for, again, your sister. Luna really ought to know better and I sincerely hope she doesn't get away with this with a mere verbal slap on the hoof and a heartless, forced apology.
Mind you, I am not saying this to make you take the chapter down and rewrite it again, not at all. The chapter now, is fine as it is. I am just commenting on the events that happened in it now from my own perspective. Conflict has happened in this chapter and I am very interested in reading how it will be resolved. So please, don't think you have to change it again; it's perfect as it is now. I just hope that the missteps the characters made in this chapter will get the consequences and treatment they deserve. What Luna did here was wrong and I am not really sympathetic with her in the slightest in this chapter, I hope to see her face the consequences.
Luna aside, I think you set down the inner conflict Cadance felt about her discovery of her aunt's relationship, her inability to get pregnant and her worry for her aunt really well. You have a masterful way of writing emotions and Cadance here was just another example of that. I personally think you did well on her and I do find her reaction to her aunt's relationship believable. She does bring up some good points and some inevitable facts that Celestia will have to face. For all that we, the audience, like it, there's no denying that in-universe society isn't exactly jumping to shout "Yay, princest is wincest!" here.
Good stuff, eager to see where it goes. Shit hit the fan this chapter, but I don't think the fan is done spinning just yet, as we have Celestia going to face Twilight next chapter. A Twilight dealing with heartbreak, doubts, suspicions and a recent confrontation with incestuous sisters. Something tells me it's not going to go smoothly.
EDIT: I read in the comments that Cadance implied in this chapter that Luna doesn't really 'love' love Celestia and that she's going along with Celestia's feelings out of guilt. I really hope that's not the case but if it is damn that's gonna break Celestia's heart.
6122257
If you've read the previous story and any of the chapters focused on Luna, you'll know how wrong that is.
6122503 6122050 6122776
Luna and Cadance's mutual dislike is based on multiple pieces of head canon about their personalities and how they would clash. It boils down to how Cadance is a very 'Disney' princess and Luna is not. After the first misunderstanding, every thing the other does and says would be viewed in a negative light to the point that even a "Good morning" could come off as jab or sarcastic.
They are never going to be friends, civil, maybe, but never friends.
6129976 It's been a while since I read the previous story (or chapters here), so I'm not surprised to be completely off-base.
They just need to end up stuck in some contrived buddy-cop scenario together.
6129976 fantastic chapter can't wait for the next one.
6129437
My excuse for the way they act here as opposed to the show is based on the differences of situation.
Most importantly, Luna was entirely absent from Cadance's wedding until the end of the reception. To me, this is the most telling. Days after Chrysalis' defeat, Luna didn't make time to be in attendance. While this could otherwise explained, I like mine. Their other interactions have been limited to merely being on screen at the same time and participating in a song. They've never spoken, as far as I can recall not interacted in a meaningful way. None of these prove much either way as very few people can't at least act civilly when others are around, especially someone like Twilight.
The major difference here is two fold. One is that they are alone, there is no need to maintain any pretense within the privacy of the Solarium. Two is that the cat is already out of the bag. Luna is not one for hiding her opinions as it is, except by simply remaining silent. In a longer, more well planned out story, the dissonance of Luna's company dependant behavior would have been better showcased.
As to your annoyance with Luna, I completely agree. From all outward appearances, she was completely in the wrong.
In regards to your edit:... Really? You of all people think I would do something so heartless to the purest love to ever exist? I am both insulted and disappointed[1].
Your Benevolent Dictator,
The Landgrave
[1] read honored, delighted, and oddly aroused.
6138706
I didn't really believe it, myself, though I admit I got a bit confused by the comments. Admittedly it is strange that Luna would react so strongly towards Cadance's claim when all she did so far towards Cadance in the chapter was mock and humiliate her. Even when Cadance accused her of ensnaring her sister with magic, Luna laughed it off. But when Cadance claims she doesn't really love Celestia, she flips out? O.o That struck me as rather odd because, well, accusing one to magic her sister's heart or accusing one to not really love her sister seem to imply the same thing to me, namely, that their love is fake. Yet Luna reacted so differently both times to what was basically the same accusation... Curious.
6139767
Because maybe Cadence 's second accusation is true? She is the Alicorn of Love, so her judgement in such matters carries enormous weight.
Sadly, Celly is too love-struck /in denial to accept this.
6162608
Context is everything.
Luna's a bitch. Immediately go in for the 'I'm totally evil, whatcha gonna do' ploy even when she... damn that was a messed up thing to do. it was awesome though so I'm okay with it.
Also, ensorcell may be my new favorite word... ensorcell.... ensorcell.
Oh and uh.... plot, holy shit I thought things were bad before, but now Love princess knows and doesn't approve. Cadance is gonna be trouble, but still not nearly as much as Twilight. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go back to figure out what was on that scroll.
9/10 plot development.
Here's where things come to a head. Looking forward to more.
Keep up the good work. Deus tecum.
You speak interesting ideas, like the princesses are an example to follow for everypony in Equestria; but buck me Nightmare if I fully accept and approve the circumstances you put them ponies in. Well, a bitter drink may happen to be a cure, but it seems to be a bit over the top sometimes. Were those words of the Princess of Love? And everypony's got so depressive (like if Twilight is not enough)… they should call Pinkie before it's too late.
Why such delay with the next chapter? All of us are extremely interested what's gonna happen now when someone knows about The-Most-Secret-Secret of Luna and Celestia
Agreed, I can't wait to wear the next chapter. I've been reading this piece in my free time. And it's quite interesting how the world would react to such a feast. None the less, thank you for such an amazing story =]
6300741
I'm not entirely sure what you said. Nevertheless, this story was never going to be a particularly happy one.
6317043
If only she wrote knickers...
6372266
Because everything needs to foot perfectly, and I refuse to have another SNAFU like chapter 13
6374602
All in good time.
6374835
Never was, yeah. I just maybe wanted it to be that non-happy story in which alicorns don't shout at each other like that. As this story (interesting on its own) is beyond my competence I think I should cease further commenting.)
6402892
It's nice to get an outsider perspective on this. It really reinforces that I'm going in the right direction... not necessarily the direction you would like, but the right one nonetheless.
6417885
That is not true at all.
6418342
Would you care to link the study?
6418617
Does it account for siblings who feel in love before they found out, or never found out (though I suppose that would be difficult to find), and can you account for a thousand years of no contact?
While I'm interested in the study, the truth is that it doesn't matter in the slightest because I will be able to come up with any justifications I want that you simply cannot account for. Also, why would you need to gather all of that? Isn't it hosted by a scientific journal?
6420347
Okay, just stop. No one here cares.