The caribou have enslaved the mares of Equestria and desecrated the land. But they've forgotten that the more you push some ponies, the harder they push back. Applejack and Rainbow Dash didn't forget.
It's only a little bit shorter than average so no complaints here... and finally a glimmer of hope for Twilight, a year's brainwashing should in theory be relatively easy to reverse with a few months of patience, especially with the old memories still intact... at least easier than a year of trauma and betrayal of loyalty.
I knew this story would be good when I read the first 2 chapters, but wow. This story has exceeded all of my expectations. The characters feel so real, and even the unexpected reactions from the characters feel so natural that I don't care that they were unexpected.
come on twilight sparkle you can do it go back to how you used to be.. come on twilight I believe In you. a-a-and p-poor dashie its okay dashie I will protect you I am going TO BUCKING KILL THE ONE WHO SAID HE WAS MY DASHIE'S MASTER I AM SO ANGRY NO PONY DOSE THIS TO MY DASHIE..NOOOO PONY but good fic I love it thear are so many feels in every one of your chapters keep up da awesome work
Hooray, Twilight's making some sense again! And then a little less sense, but there's still progress! Can't imagine how long the road will be before she's somewhat like her old self again. A year of abuse and brainwashing can't be undone in a few days.
Actually, given what we know of her and what we see here Twilight might in theory snap back, relatively quickly from all this. She'd be, you know, thoroughly messed up in the head but capable perhaps of relatively clear thinking problem solving and so on in, maybe as little as three or four months. ...Well. Five or six. ...Well. Eight to ten maybe. Even then she will still be pretty much like Dash is currently, on the knife edge of relapsing, having flash backs, nightmares blackouts, and so on, for... Well, forever. but, you know. It could be worse. It could be years before she was fully functional again, if ever, so really, this is rather optimistic!
474278547454384747383 The thing it's important to remember is that there are two parts of this for Twilight: there's realizing that the caribou can be wrong, then there's dealing with all of the individual things that are wrong and the emotional fall out from those things.
The first, from what I've read, can happen very quickly when the person is ready. For example, people can live in an abusive relationship or a cult for years, but when it finally clicks what's going on, they know they have to leave. The walls come down. Usually this is because of a traumatic event or the abuser/cult leader making a major blunder and failing to recover in time, so it's not something you can really make happen (though removing them from the source while the truama is playing out can be helpful.)
The second part is much harder, because it's not like they realize that A (wrong thing) is wrong, so B (right thing) is right. They realize that A is wrong, so anything could be wrong or right. And they have no way of knowing, because they messed up with A. And they were a stupid, bad person for trusting A, and for going along with all the things A made them do. And life was sooo much easier when they just believed A and didn't have to worry about this or feel bad... and maybe A was right after all.
That's the part that can last for years, or a lifetime. But it's also the part where friends/family/therapy can actually help, because you're no longer talking to a wall inside the person's brain, you're helping them sift through the rubble.
I think it's safe to say, since people have noted it, that Twilight's walls are starting to crumble. But that's by no means the end of her issues, she's going to have a pile of rubble literally the size of Equestria in front of her.
I think it's safe to say, since people have noted it, that Twilight's walls are starting to crumble. But that's by no means the end of her issues, she's going to have a pile of rubble literally the size of Equestria in front of her.
Wow. This perfectly encapsulates what I think you do right in this story.
I want to take a moment to complement you for tackling the heavy price of this sort of brainwashing head on. It seems that most fall stories simply use brainwashing as a means to turn the characters into receptacles for the abuse the setting dishes out, one of the more nauseating refrains I hear from fall fans is that 'X is too well trained', as if brainwashing is a fool proof system and has no consequences beyond sexy fetish times.
I am curious if you are going to touch on the psychological damage done to create the so called 'purples', I honestly believe that most purples would be something like a dog living in an abusive home, cringing and cowering until they are given the tiniest sliver of an opening, and then lashing out. A person's mind does not break along nice, predictable faults, it seems that it would be more likely to produce a catatonic vegetable than a nymphomaniac slave. And that's not even addressing the fact that some mares would see the breaking process as the end of the line, choosing to fight back regardless of the cost because they have nothing to lose.
Of course this sort of psychological damage is not sexy, probably why the 'cannon' fall setting never touches on it.
But is it permissible to like collecting Caribou heads if video games aren't involved? The fellow is cribbing Michael Westin and Sun Tzu, so it's a little classier.
4753296 It's more about the "emotions other than rage and extra-ragey-rage." I mean, rage is important, but without grief, loss, triumph, empathy, or compassion, it's just porn for people with a caribou-snuff fetish. If that's what the guys out there like, awesome, but it's not my thing.
Your stories tend to toss in some extra emotions, so you usually get a pass.
I am curious if you are going to touch on the psychological damage done to create the so called 'purples'
I would love to, but I'm not sure I'll get to it, for a few reasons.
First, it would be hard to work in with where my focus is. Not impossible, but it would likely have to be a minor subplot or a scene to expand on the idea.
Second, as you've noted, purples are one of the most fantastical aspects of the fetish part of the setting. Dealing with that kind of trauma in any kind of real world way would totally change their place in the setting-- I agree, catatonia or violent outbursts would be a more likely outcome. But that loses some of the creepy-ness of the threat to other mares, in my opinion.
So if I did go into the idea it would be more taking it as face value and exploring the ethical implications of ponies who seem to want sex non-stop, but to any right-thinking being lack all ability to actually consent. The Apples took care of some of them on the farm, but what went into that care and how did AJ and Mac feel about what they had to do to keep them comfortable? That sort of thing is more where I'd go with it, if I got around to it.
Much like I use clop as a spice for stories that might otherwise be mostly overlooked ("The Proscenium Arch" and "Motherhood, Mayhem and the Mane-iac's Return" come to mind, though my two instances of Daringzotl love also count) the violence works like the clop in other stories. It drives towards points of emotion as well as sweeping vistas made of seeing the effects of the Fall on relationships, economics and the land itself. That's why outside perspectives like Zivante the Mysterious Mare-Do-Well, Maureen the Bean Sidhe and Daring (an outsider due to her usual position as a long-distance explorer) are so important. And why self-sacrifice to the cause is held to be a general good (Zayats the Red Legionnaire, and Bluebonnet the first Everloyal.)
...All I can say is that this is one of the greatest stories I've ever read. As in, published or FanFiction.
I think it's mainly because of Twilight --> And stop smiling, I really hate you. And yet like you.
Twilight is a character than in the show, bored me to death. She was a NEEEEEEERD and a socially awkward one at that. She was, to me, boring. In this, Twilight is on the level of 'To Kill a Mockingbird' interesting. Her logic feels wrong, and I know it's wrong... And yet in a weird, twisted way, she's right. It's the kind of right that makes you stutter and then say SHUT UP, because logically it works, but morally it doesn't. I think the real breaker is that, she still cares about her friends. She doesn't care like Applejack though. Twilight wants her friends, but within the new rules of society. Applejack wants her friends, but she wants them the way they are. Twilight wants to change them, instead of letting them be who they are. Her mind is broken, and when she put the pieces back together, she came out warped.
In order for Twi to be fixed, she needs to be presented logic that the Caribou propaganda and slogans can't explain away. She almost broke free when Applejack was talking about how she used to be the smartest mare in Equestria. When logic failed, she used a chant that the Caribou told her, because what males now say is law. When she is presented logic that beats those laws, she will either break free or just break... Forgive me if you either didn't understand or think it's rather stupid.
4776703 That's the scary side of Twilight that gets glossed over most of the time. She has a very clear worldview, and reality will conform to it, one way or another. She's got the potential to be very dangerous if she gets some strange but consistent-in-itself ideology stuck in her head.
I'm not sure Twilight's definition of "dumb cunt" should really mean she thinks she's stupid. I mean the pictures still show her doing various forms of research. She should just think she's dumb because she spent her whole life thinking she didn't need a master and as far as she's concerned now that's wrong.
It's sort of like it's easy to imagine her calling her anti-social nature from before the show dumb. But she learned better. In her mind she learned better here by submitting and taking a red collar
4895068 All I know is that it's the party line of the caribou that mares are not as intelligent as stallions, according to one of the notes in the background of Eggonaught's AJ picture, and that I have it on good authority that in FoE canon Twilight doesn't feel she's qualified to make decisions for herself.
Make of that what you will.
ETA: There's also the picture with the "Bimbo" body writing. Whether she's internalized it or not, Twilight is at least happy to tow the party line that mares are, in fact, stupid.
Never brought it up before really but I've always loved this chapter for the way it gives twilight some opportunity to reign in some of her own friends unhealthy ideas about BDSM even if she has plenty herself. Even in regular love, of course there's fear and disappointment worries. Twilight has at least internalized the ideal of the relationship, even if she can't comprehend how it should healthily be put into practice, and with her being wrong usually, its nice to see her be right.
It's only a little bit shorter than average so no complaints here... and finally a glimmer of hope for Twilight, a year's brainwashing should in theory be relatively easy to reverse with a few months of patience, especially with the old memories still intact... at least easier than a year of trauma and betrayal of loyalty.
I knew this story would be good when I read the first 2 chapters, but wow. This story has exceeded all of my expectations. The characters feel so real, and even the unexpected reactions from the characters feel so natural that I don't care that they were unexpected.
You should try writing a book after this is done.
Definitely looks like twilights old self is trying to break through.
come on twilight sparkle you can do it go back to how you used to be.. come on twilight I believe In you.
a-a-and p-poor dashie its okay dashie I will protect you
I am going TO BUCKING KILL THE ONE WHO SAID HE WAS MY DASHIE'S MASTER I AM SO ANGRY NO PONY DOSE THIS TO MY DASHIE..NOOOO PONY
but good fic I love it thear are so many feels in every one of your chapters
keep up da awesome work
Slivers of sunlight breaking through the canopy, but the foliage is still too thick to see clearly...
gooood stuff
Oof. Such a long way to go.
Hooray, Twilight's making some sense again! And then a little less sense, but there's still progress!
Can't imagine how long the road will be before she's somewhat like her old self again. A year of abuse and brainwashing can't be undone in a few days.
Actually, given what we know of her and what we see here Twilight might in theory snap back, relatively quickly from all this. She'd be, you know, thoroughly messed up in the head but capable perhaps of relatively clear thinking problem solving and so on in, maybe as little as three or four months. ...Well. Five or six. ...Well. Eight to ten maybe. Even then she will still be pretty much like Dash is currently, on the knife edge of relapsing, having flash backs, nightmares blackouts, and so on, for... Well, forever. but, you know. It could be worse. It could be years before she was fully functional again, if ever, so really, this is rather optimistic!
4742785 4745438 4747383
The thing it's important to remember is that there are two parts of this for Twilight: there's realizing that the caribou can be wrong, then there's dealing with all of the individual things that are wrong and the emotional fall out from those things.
The first, from what I've read, can happen very quickly when the person is ready. For example, people can live in an abusive relationship or a cult for years, but when it finally clicks what's going on, they know they have to leave. The walls come down. Usually this is because of a traumatic event or the abuser/cult leader making a major blunder and failing to recover in time, so it's not something you can really make happen (though removing them from the source while the truama is playing out can be helpful.)
The second part is much harder, because it's not like they realize that A (wrong thing) is wrong, so B (right thing) is right. They realize that A is wrong, so anything could be wrong or right. And they have no way of knowing, because they messed up with A. And they were a stupid, bad person for trusting A, and for going along with all the things A made them do. And life was sooo much easier when they just believed A and didn't have to worry about this or feel bad... and maybe A was right after all.
That's the part that can last for years, or a lifetime. But it's also the part where friends/family/therapy can actually help, because you're no longer talking to a wall inside the person's brain, you're helping them sift through the rubble.
I think it's safe to say, since people have noted it, that Twilight's walls are starting to crumble. But that's by no means the end of her issues, she's going to have a pile of rubble literally the size of Equestria in front of her.
4747812
Wow. This perfectly encapsulates what I think you do right in this story.
I want to take a moment to complement you for tackling the heavy price of this sort of brainwashing head on. It seems that most fall stories simply use brainwashing as a means to turn the characters into receptacles for the abuse the setting dishes out, one of the more nauseating refrains I hear from fall fans is that 'X is too well trained', as if brainwashing is a fool proof system and has no consequences beyond sexy fetish times.
I am curious if you are going to touch on the psychological damage done to create the so called 'purples', I honestly believe that most purples would be something like a dog living in an abusive home, cringing and cowering until they are given the tiniest sliver of an opening, and then lashing out. A person's mind does not break along nice, predictable faults, it seems that it would be more likely to produce a catatonic vegetable than a nymphomaniac slave. And that's not even addressing the fact that some mares would see the breaking process as the end of the line, choosing to fight back regardless of the cost because they have nothing to lose.
Of course this sort of psychological damage is not sexy, probably why the 'cannon' fall setting never touches on it.
4717576
But is it permissible to like collecting Caribou heads if video games aren't involved? The fellow is cribbing Michael Westin and Sun Tzu, so it's a little classier.
4753296
It's more about the "emotions other than rage and extra-ragey-rage." I mean, rage is important, but without grief, loss, triumph, empathy, or compassion, it's just porn for people with a caribou-snuff fetish. If that's what the guys out there like, awesome, but it's not my thing.
Your stories tend to toss in some extra emotions, so you usually get a pass.
4749239
I would love to, but I'm not sure I'll get to it, for a few reasons.
First, it would be hard to work in with where my focus is. Not impossible, but it would likely have to be a minor subplot or a scene to expand on the idea.
Second, as you've noted, purples are one of the most fantastical aspects of the fetish part of the setting. Dealing with that kind of trauma in any kind of real world way would totally change their place in the setting-- I agree, catatonia or violent outbursts would be a more likely outcome. But that loses some of the creepy-ness of the threat to other mares, in my opinion.
So if I did go into the idea it would be more taking it as face value and exploring the ethical implications of ponies who seem to want sex non-stop, but to any right-thinking being lack all ability to actually consent. The Apples took care of some of them on the farm, but what went into that care and how did AJ and Mac feel about what they had to do to keep them comfortable? That sort of thing is more where I'd go with it, if I got around to it.
4753391
Much like I use clop as a spice for stories that might otherwise be mostly overlooked ("The Proscenium Arch" and "Motherhood, Mayhem and the Mane-iac's Return" come to mind, though my two instances of Daringzotl love also count) the violence works like the clop in other stories. It drives towards points of emotion as well as sweeping vistas made of seeing the effects of the Fall on relationships, economics and the land itself. That's why outside perspectives like Zivante the Mysterious Mare-Do-Well, Maureen the Bean Sidhe and Daring (an outsider due to her usual position as a long-distance explorer) are so important. And why self-sacrifice to the cause is held to be a general good (Zayats the Red Legionnaire, and Bluebonnet the first Everloyal.)
...All I can say is that this is one of the greatest stories I've ever read. As in, published or FanFiction.
I think it's mainly because of Twilight -->
And stop smiling, I really hate you. And yet like you.
Twilight is a character than in the show, bored me to death. She was a NEEEEEEERD and a socially awkward one at that. She was, to me, boring.
In this, Twilight is on the level of 'To Kill a Mockingbird' interesting.
Her logic feels wrong, and I know it's wrong... And yet in a weird, twisted way, she's right. It's the kind of right that makes you stutter and then say SHUT UP, because logically it works, but morally it doesn't.
I think the real breaker is that, she still cares about her friends. She doesn't care like Applejack though. Twilight wants her friends, but within the new rules of society. Applejack wants her friends, but she wants them the way they are. Twilight wants to change them, instead of letting them be who they are.
Her mind is broken, and when she put the pieces back together, she came out warped.
In order for Twi to be fixed, she needs to be presented logic that the Caribou propaganda and slogans can't explain away. She almost broke free when Applejack was talking about how she used to be the smartest mare in Equestria. When logic failed, she used a chant that the Caribou told her, because what males now say is law. When she is presented logic that beats those laws, she will either break free or just break...
Forgive me if you either didn't understand or think it's rather stupid.
4776703
That's the scary side of Twilight that gets glossed over most of the time. She has a very clear worldview, and reality will conform to it, one way or another. She's got the potential to be very dangerous if she gets some strange but consistent-in-itself ideology stuck in her head.
I'm not sure Twilight's definition of "dumb cunt" should really mean she thinks she's stupid. I mean the pictures still show her doing various forms of research. She should just think she's dumb because she spent her whole life thinking she didn't need a master and as far as she's concerned now that's wrong.
It's sort of like it's easy to imagine her calling her anti-social nature from before the show dumb. But she learned better. In her mind she learned better here by submitting and taking a red collar
4895068
All I know is that it's the party line of the caribou that mares are not as intelligent as stallions, according to one of the notes in the background of Eggonaught's AJ picture, and that I have it on good authority that in FoE canon Twilight doesn't feel she's qualified to make decisions for herself.
Make of that what you will.
ETA: There's also the picture with the "Bimbo" body writing. Whether she's internalized it or not, Twilight is at least happy to tow the party line that mares are, in fact, stupid.
Never brought it up before really but I've always loved this chapter for the way it gives twilight some opportunity to reign in some of her own friends unhealthy ideas about BDSM even if she has plenty herself. Even in regular love, of course there's fear and disappointment worries. Twilight has at least internalized the ideal of the relationship, even if she can't comprehend how it should healthily be put into practice, and with her being wrong usually, its nice to see her be right.