Noctilucent carefully went down the stairs, not sure what to expect. Most of the building was below ground level, and it was delightfully cool. The thick adobe walls kept out the blistering rays of the sun. The stairs led to what had to be a playroom, and there was some sand on the floor near the stairs. The foals followed Holly into another room, a kitchen, and then stood around her waiting for frozen treats. Noctilucent stood in the doorway, feeling quite unsure of himself.
The little donkey foal, Graves, lingered near Noctilucent’s hooves, looking as though he was going to die of boredom at any moment. “Savages, all of them,” Graves said in a low whisper. “And Sassy is the worst of them, she eats bugs,” he added in a disgusted whine.
“Sassy?” replied Noctilucent.
“The griffon. The horrible horrible griffon,” Graves answered.
“You sound a little depressed or something,” Noctilucent admitted to the donkey, looking down at him.
“I am surrounded by savages,” Graves retorted, looking up at the pegasus.
“You sound smart,” Noctilucent said, eyeing Holly, who was pulling out a big box of frozen fruit and getting ready to serve it.
“My IQ is higher than the average daily temperature,” sighed Graves. “I am smart enough to understand just how screwed I am growing up in this situation.” The donkey foal moved off to get himself a bowl of frozen fruit chunks.
Feeling apprehensive, Noctilucent went and sat down at the table, looking around, feeling like a foal on their first day of school.
“When your wing gets better, can you give me flying lessons?” Sassafras asked, sitting down next to Noctilucent.
“I guess, if you get permission from Holly,” replied Noctilucent.
“I hope you stay, Holly is all we have. Sometimes we get caretakers, but they don’t get paid, just get room and board and so they don’t stay long,” Sassafras said. Noctilucent was unable to read her facial features. A hard beak didn’t have many expressions.
“I have no where else to go,” Noctilucent admitted.
“Neither do we,” Sassafras replied, looking the pegasus in the eye.
A bottle of ice cold soda was slid in front of Noctilucent, with a straw thoughtfully placed down the neck of the bottle. Holly smiled, looking pleased. A bowl of fruit was slid in place a moment later.
He found his gaze drawn to Arroyo. The unicorn colt was pink. That had to be troublesome at times. He sipped from his straw, lost in thought, trying to take in everything around him.
His thoughts were suddenly shattered by an operatic bullfrog singing an aria, the sound echoing from the adobe walls, and Noctilucent found his gaze drawn to Cactus Blossom. He found himself smiling even though he felt awful, and felt an odd sense of gratitude for Luna’s warnings about the foal.
“Cactus! Say excuse me!” Holly cried, her voice indignant.
“Eggs scuse meeee!” Cactus Blossom cried in a roaring belch.
“Cactus! You little scamp! Stop that!” Holly begged.
The downcast donkey foal heaved a sigh of ennui and allowed his head to collapse upon the table. He sat, his chin on the table, rolling his eyes and looking as though he truly hated life. “I am going to suffer an existential crisis any moment now,” he muttered.
“What’s an exit dental crisis? Do your teeth runaway?” Arroyo asked.
Graves flinched as though he was struck and said nothing.
“This one time, Cactus borrowed Holly’s lipstick, and she put it on her plothole, because she wanted to find how much her plothole actually touched the floor, and then she went and left behind little red circles everywhere she sat,” Sassafras whispered behind her claw to Noctilucent, who sat horrified at what he was hearing. “Cactus didn’t tell Holly she used her lipstick though and put it back,” the griffon added, still whispering. “Candy Corn had to try and describe to her how much lipstick was on the floor. Poor Candy. Cactus does awful things to her and poor Candy is too kind and sweet to say no.”
“Monstrous,” Graves said, his head still on the table. “A pity her mind has turned to pure evil. Cactus’ brain has gone horribly wrong.”
A terrible thought occurred to Noctilucent. He was in over his head.
“I don’t want my teeth running away,” Arroyo whined, looking very worried.
“Arroyo, you’re stupid,” Sassafras snarked.
“I am not Sassy! Featherbrain!” Arroyo retorted, sticking out his tongue.
“Primitive screwhead!” Sassafras cried, throwing a chunk of frozen peach at the pink unicorn.
“ENOUGH!” Holly cried, right as the peach projectile bounced off of Arroyo’s head, causing the colt to cry out.
“Savages I tell you,” Graves muttered. “Exterminate all the brutes.”
“What?” asked Arroyo, looking confused.
“He said sumpin’ that rhymes with toots!” Cactus cried, leaning over and farting as she spoke, a dreadful squealing sound punctuating her words.
Seeing tears in Holly’s eyes, Noctilucent acted. He pursed his lips and whistled loudly, the piercing sound instantly silencing every foal in the room, causing them to sit quietly and blink in shock. Little ears flickered in discomfort.
“Thank you,” Holly said, sniffling. “They get a little rambunctious. They’re good foals though,” she added.
“No we're not, were awful,” Candy Corn said, now sniffling herself.
Noctilucent looked down, something was pressing up against his uninjured side. A pale grey colt was hiding his face against Noctilucent’s good wing. “Biscuit, right?” Noctilucent asked. The foal made no attempt to reply.
“Sometimes I get a tiny bit carried away,” Cactus Blossom confessed.
“Finish your snacks, and then it is naptime,” Holly said, causing the foals to groan in protest, except for Graves, who looked pleased.
The room was small and bare. Noctilucent’s quarters were deep in the basement, a storage closet turned into a small bedroom. It was almost chilly down here. The air was cool and refreshing. There were no windows, not down this deep. The sleeping room was just down a short hall, and Holly’s room was nearby. He could hear Holly’s hooves approaching behind him and he turned.
“I read the recommendation from the hospital and I was kind of touched. Spending all that time reading and spending time with sick little foals that are probably going to die. I don’t think I would be that strong,” Holly said, trying to engage Noctilucent in small talk.
“I am not so sure that I was either,” Noctilucent admitted.
“What do you mean?” Holly asked.
“I quit for a reason. It got to me. It weighed on me. They kept dying. I’d go and then there would be a face I was hoping to see and it wouldn’t be there,” the pegasus answered, looking a bit morose as he spoke.
“Yeah, but you went there, I don’t think I’d make it for the first visit. I don’t have that kind of courage,” Holly confessed. Holly paused, her ears perked, listening for sounds of trouble in the sleeping room.
“I don’t see how you manage this,” Noctilucent said, shaking his head.
“I was an orphan. I grew up in a place like this one. In Manehatten. I remember what it feels like having ponies give up on you. I came here to serve. I’ve given the best years of my life to these foals,” Holly said, smiling sadly. “I want what is best for them, I guess I don’t do much for myself,” she finished.
“I guess somepony has to do it,” Noctilucent agreed.
“The little tiny horseshoes on my backside say I was born to do this. At least, I think they do. Hard to tell. Meaning is what you make of it,” Holly announced, looking thoughtful.
The words seemed somehow profound to Noctilucent, who found his mind suddenly swirling with ideas and notions, wondering what meaning he had for his own life, and his own cutie mark. He had no idea what his cutie mark meant. It simply showed up one day. No big event, no nothing. It was simply there. And he had no idea what had caused it to appear. And now, part of it was missing. His fire was gone. He had no idea what his mark even meant, how could he restore what was missing? He was going to have to spend some time thinking about this.
“You alright?” Holly asked.
“Sorry, I started thinking, forgive me,” Noctilucent asked.
“So why did you choose to come here of all places?” Holly asked.
Noctilucent froze mentally, unsure of how to answer. He willed the jammed gears of his brain to work again, trying to come up with a reasonable answer. He found none. “I made some mistakes that I need to atone for,” he answered, partial honestly giving merit to his words.
“Mistakes happen, ponies will forgive you, the real trouble comes with forgiving yourself,” Holly said, looking thoughtful, and feeling happy to have another adult to speak to.
Forgiveness didn’t seem possible for a number of Noctilucent’s actions, and he knew this. Or, he thought he did. He shivered in the cool air, and marveled at how well this building kept out the oppressive heat.
“I am going to take this opportunity to take a nap myself,” Holly announced, yawning, which caused Noctilucent to yawn. She turned and disappeared into her quarters, leaving the door open.
The curious stallion walked down the hall a short ways and peered into the foal’s common sleeping room. A few cots had been placed in the room, and in the corner, there was a pile of folded up cots should more foals arrive.
The foals were asleep, or seemed to be, tucked under coarse grey blankets to keep out the chill in the air. A strange protective feeling settled over the pegasus, bringing with it a sense of comfort. He was a pegasus. This is what he was made to do. Stand watch. He quietly returned to his own quarters, stepping carefully on the shale tile floor. He slipped into his own bed, carefully so he wouldn’t bump his wing, and then rested his head on the pillow.
Sleep came quickly.
Noctilucent found himself in a vast green meadow. It seemed to stretch in all directions, a few trees offered points of interest against the horizon. He became aware that Princess Luna was standing next to him only after she had cleared her throat.
“Settling in?” she asked, tilting her head to look at the startled pegasus.
“I don’t know,” Noctilucent replied.
“Well, you are napping,” Princess Luna pointed out, a faint hint of mirth in her tone and laughter in her eyes. “Cactus Blossom treating you well?”
“She’s something,” Noctilucent admitted.
“I love that foal dearly. She is very much as I was when I was young,” Princess Luna confessed, shaking her head slowly. “I find it amazing my sister had so much patience.”
“What is wrong with Graves?” Noctilucent asked.
“Nothing is wrong, exactly. He’s just a very depressed little donkey. Donkeys in general have a lot to be depressed about. They don’t have a homeland any longer, they live here in Equestria as refugees, and Graves is a bit more aware than most about his situation in life, poor thing,” Princess Luna explained.
“So, I need to ask, why did you do this?” Noctilucent queried.
Princess Luna did not reply. Instead, she stopped her hoof down, crushing a flower. It lay on the ground, wilted and ruined, crushed down and nearly destroyed. And then, as the night blue and dappled white pegasus watched, the flower was lifted back up with magic, smoothed out, life and vitality slowly restored. Afterwards, the flower looked no worse for wear.
“That isn’t an answer,” Noctilucent said.
“It is the only one you have at the moment,” Princess Luna retorted. “You want a better answer, go find one for yourself.”
“I find myself hating you just a little for what you’ve done,” Noctilucent confessed.
“Good, that is a healthy reaction. I want you to hold on to that. I want you to resent me and strive to work against me. I want you to desire to be free,” Princess Luna said, sitting down in the green grass and sniffing the now restored flower. “Funny, it looks more beautiful and smells even sweeter after enduring a little adversity.”
“How long am I to remain as your bound servant?” Noctilucent asked.
“You are free to go at any time,” Princess Luna said. “I no longer have the power to break your bonds. I surrendered that.”
“I don’t understand,” Noctilucent said, slumping down as he too, sat down in the tall grass with the alicorn.
“At this point, the only pony who can free you from the geas is you. If you want to be free, you must find a way to recover yourself. I no longer have the means to release you. It would be monstrous had I held on to that aspect,” Princess Luna said while watching butterfly.
“But…”
“Did you just call your Princess a butt?” Princess Luna asked, interrupting, moving her head close to Noctilucent’s and nearly bumping his snoot with her own. She stared at him for a moment, until he blinked and turned away.
“You’re being so playful towards me, it is infuriating!” Noctilucent cried, unable to look her in the eye. “You keep being nice to me, feeding me ice chips, giving me water, finding a cup of butterscotch pudding because I had a craving, I feel so ashamed right now! I really want to hate you…”
“You are free to hate me, but I don’t think it will help you,” Princess Luna offered, prodding at a bee with her hoof and trying to shoo it away from Noctilucent. “You still have an awful lot of freedom. You are free to save yourself. As soon as you find a way to break the geas, I will let you run free.”
“How will I know?” Noctilucent said in a faint whine.
“Because I will command you to eat your most hated food, strained carrots, and you will not obey,” Princess Luna replied, laughing as she did so.
“So you cannot release me?” Noctilucent asked.
“No. I cannot. For all of my power, I am powerless to do that. You are bound by a chain of your own creation. You have all the power over if you want to be free from it or not,” Princess Luna explained. After she finished speaking, she lowered her head and began to daintily nibble on some grass.
“I am very confused and I don’t understand,” Noctilucent said.
Princess Luna raised her head and smiled, revealing green teeth. “Stop trying to understand. For now, try to heal. Spend some time doing what you do well. Your wing is broken in a physical and metaphorical sense. Until you heal, you must be looked after and kept safe. You are safe now, and all of your needs are being met. You are in a good place to heal. When you can fly again, you are free to go my little baby bird, free to leave the nest, and I know that you will not tumble once more to the earth,” Princess Luna said. She leaned over and gently kissed Noctilucent on the cheek. “I have other little baby birds though, so if you wouldn’t mind, please look after your nest mates while you recover. Some of them are hurt so much worse than you are, and I fear for their lives come later. Think about the hurt you suffered so long ago, and how it has led you to where you are now,” she explained.
Noctilucent started to reply, but an explosion of butterflies blasted him from the dreamscape and back into his own bed.
He awoke, gasping a bit, feeling an odd sense of panic.
4377105
Social contract, yes.
I give up my right to club you over the head in exchange for you not clubbing me over the head.
The foundation for all societal mores.
Fish slapping remains fair game though.
stream1.gifsoup.com/view6/2699594/fish-slapping-o.gif
I like it. Continue.
4377236
Keep reading. Perspectives may change.
I almost wonder what would happen if she met a Suicide that reformed..Then tried to kill him/herself again.
Reformed, then tried again.
Reformed, then tried again.
It's almost a curious thought to see how far she would go with one that really was truly determined to die.
4377250
Discord eats the words out of the book in Keep Calm and Flutter On.
I love this story because of two things. It touches a subject that is still considered a taboo and it's very insightful in the matter of the problem.
It's quite rare but I feel genuinely curious what will happen the hero. Noctilucent is surely in for a rough ride.
I hope to see more from you in the future
4377292
Sort of like Discord, who was conscious the entire time he was trapped in stone.
4377341
Oh, she was thoroughly corrupted.
Be gentle with your assumptions.
4377343 Assumptions? The last chapter consisted of you outright stating so.
There's a bit of an issue of it being unclear what your views on the story are.
4377382
I am the storyteller.
I am allowed to tell stories with views I don't necessarily agree with. Or even things I find morally reprehensible. I am mature enough to deal with concepts and ideals I don't like and try to deal with them rationally, to cast a critical eye upon them, to try and understand them by writing about a character with those views, and using psychological and sociological imagination to gain some insight into why a character might do what they do.
Any opinion I write doesn't make it mine own, I am a free creature who can express the opinions of others and not feel threatened too much, knowing that within myself, my own opinions and beliefs are held secure.
In this particular instance, I wanted to go with a concept that truly horrified me, real terror.
There is no horror tag for Fimfiction, so I went with slice of life at first, because this is all about life. I added the dark tag eventually even though I do not fully agree with its use, I do agree with some of the opinions of others, opinions expressed in a most reasonable fashion.
I wanted to write a horror story with a happy ending. It had to be something that scared me. Not much scares me. I am not overly bothered by other things people find scary. And this is a subject that absolutely makes my skin crawl, even as I write it. For me, this is worse than the Papercuts chapter in To Dance in Shadows.
I wanted something so morally ambiguous yet reprehensible at first glance that it shook people down to their cores and made them want to examine their own values and see what was going on in their heads. I wanted people to be undecided... Oh hey, Luna is real bitch... I hope that Noctilucent gets the help that he needs.
As we Discordians might like to say, give me ambiguity or give me something else. In the end, this is a tale to inspire chaos and confusion, and make people think.
You should be outraged. But also a little intrigued. A bit pissed off. And a bit hopeful.
4377396
I concur. As a socialist, I find some libertarian values reprehensible. Others, quite redeeming.
We aren't in for a "Tragedy" tag, are we?
4377420
Perhaps. The tag would be for some of the many readers I suppose.
Make no mistake, this is a story about moving back into the light and self illumination.
4371327
So many things wrong here.
The fact that their rule is based on nothing more than brute force is extremely wrong (If you apply logic.) So they are super powerful, and can crush any opposition. Why does that mean that they should rule over the entire nation? Being a brute capable of great destruction and leading a nation are entirely different things. Also, the sisters are not literally divine; there was a time where they didn't exist, and the unicorns moved the celestial objects; they are not actual goddesses, and I am tired of people calling them such.
<Yeah, a little point out there. Wrong, not right. From what I have seen in canon, the sisters are not actually very good at solving problems (or even good, at all); they are just very good at pretending that they are. At first, their right to morality and rule could have been claimed by the fact they wielded the Elements of harmony, and saved Equestria from Discord - they were living examples of perfect morality that ponies should strive to be. BUT, they lost that right AGES ago. Here's a few things...
Luna and Celestia fell from grace; Luna became Nightmare Moon, and tried to kill her sister (once again, a powerful, ignorant brute that needs her ego stroked (LOVE ME!!! LOVE THE NIGHT!!!) does not make a good ruler). Celestia, unlike Twilight&Co. failed to purfiy Luna, and had to imprison her, and lost her connection to the Elements. At this point in time, which is 1000+ years ago already, their entire right to rule is thrown into question: Celestia and Luna are no longer the shining exemplars of harmony; Celestia still has her regular magical power, but she's no wielder of harmony anymore. So, she rules by deception and manipulation instead.
Fast forward 1000 years. Celestia is, as you called her, a benevolent dictator - she manipulates Twilight throughout her entire life, from childhood to giving her Starswirl's book to trigger her ascension. All for the greater good, of course. Along with her friends, who she set up with Twilight (Who set up 5 of the Mane6 to work various roles during Celestia's sumer celebration, ensuring they would meet? Celestia, of course) she sends all of them to clean up her previous failures: Nightmare Moon, Discord, Crystal Empire. Previous failures that she swept under the rug - When NMM came back, no one knew who the hell she was; None of the mane6, even Twilight, knew who Discord was; same thing with the Crystal Empire.
In more recent times: Celestia failed to both notice Chrysalis's deception, and to protect her subjects even with her sheer power. She lost in every way imaginable, and yet? At the end of the wedding, she's giving out a lesson to Twilight, like she knew all of this would happen this way. "Learning to trust your instincts is a valuable lesson to learn.", heh. And when she's doing her "wise mentor" thing, everyone forgets she got her ass handed to her on a silver platter. Conclusion?
Celestia isn't good at solving problems 100%; she's just good at PRETENDING she is, and sweeping her failures under the rug of history, erasing them from history books, and just waiting out all the potential discontent ponies (a few generations pass, and everyone forgot all about her failures, and everyone who knew about them died off from old age.) So.
That's just it. They have a HISTORY of never losing. And the winner writes the history. Even if all their victory did was delay their enemies enough for good ol Celly to send her little purple janitor to clean up her eon-old messes again and again.
So. To sum up. I do not think Luna has any right to do any of this; both Celestia and Luna lost both their rights to hold any kind of moral highground and their "divine" rights to rule and own (I still don't quite think the Sisters literally own everypony in canon FiM universe, but eh. It's kudzu's story) a looong time ago. If Twilight did this, I'd believe she would do it 100% benevolently; Luna, I do not quite trust entirely.
4377449
Ooh, I like this.
This looks interesting, I'm adding it to my 'read later' list, but it seems to me that "Princess Luna's Suicide Solutions" is too light of a title for such a story if it's supposed to be a darker type of fic. That title just makes it seem like this is going to be a comedy and suicide shouldn't be taken lightly. Then again, I haven't even read the story yet, so I shouldn't be getting ahead of myself...
4377449
Very well argued!
stop jerking at my tear ducts god dammit!!
4377449 i think that thew answer is simply that luna is a morningstar to twilight katana
more blunt, heavier, and peircing in all the places that hurt the most.
result is the same though.
hmmm, that metaphor really needs to be reversed
maybe "twilight is healing creme, luna is an amputation and regeneration"?
I'll work on it
4377512
Twilight is a pimple popper and Luna is the boil basher?
4377518 sort of
4377512
Twilight uses modern surgical techniques...
Luna says, "Fetch me the leaches, an iron lance to help balance the humours, and a hammer."
"Why a hammer?"
"To put the patient at ease."
**CONK**
Well I'll admit that this chapter makes Luna seem less evil. Still it's all very interesting. I am interested in seeing where this goes... Oh one more thing... Is it awful that I want the blind filly to get kicked in the face? I'm personally afraid that Cactus is worst pony in this story. she's unapologetically disgusting and has no socially redeeming value. I'm not going to care about her just because she's a blind orphan. Still perhaps I'll find something to love about her as the story goes on.
What is the key to Noctilucent's freedom? Self-forgiveness and self-love.
4377736
Magical Mystery Cure.
Everybody had to love and forgive Discord... Or did they?
I don't remember Discord doing anything bad... He's one of us!
4377811
Oh, but he was! He first mutilated, and then tried to kill a certain very nice, very kind, though overly sad pony.
In our contemporary society suicidal people are locked in mental institutions without means to kill themselves, and then subjected to "therapy" at least until doctors deem them not suicidal anymore. The whole approach is very ham-fisted and rarely efficient. I'd say what Luna did seems quite similar but gives a much better promise of success.
4377900
The Memory Spell was more about unlocking memories blocked by Discord's brainwashing, than brainwashing itself. It wasn't overwriting anything, it merely brought forth what was in there already.
4377576 The point of her being disgusting is to show Noctilucence that some ponies can be happy even though they are hated by others. At least, this is one part of the tale.
4377999
Actually, she has very good reasons to be the way she is. Details coming in story.
Ah, brilliant. You've moved into genuine psychotherapy now. I'm still curious as to what the limits of this geas are, but the whole 'you may stop as soon as you are _able_ to stop' is far less morally ambiguous.
4377449
With regards to the whole 'deity' thing - they _are_ goddesses... in the Classical sense. No, they are not in any way similar to the Abrahamic, capital G, God. They are, however, very similar to the pantheonic deities of the Ancient World.
Their initial 'right to rule' may have been conquest, or it may have been brute force, but regardless, by the time of NMM, the argument would have been 'who knows better?' Because, let's face it, after a lifetime of leadership, even if there were the sort of mistakes politicians usually make, it would take a supremely gifted individual to challenge them in ability.
Next - from what you have seen in canon, they are rather incompetent? What, that's 12 or so incidents that the Diarchs were involved in that they handled poorly? In over a millenium of leadership? Our leaders make that many mistakes in a single term of office! Moreover, a number of these 'incidents' are caused by shifting responsibility to Twilight - who is being groomed for office. Is it not to their benefit that she learns these lessons now, rather than when they actually have to leave her to reign whilst they attend some other business?
I will not argue that Luna didn't lose her right to rule when she turned Nightmare. She did.
Celestia, however, did not. She did not betray her nation. Fail it? Perhaps. But it is unreasonable to expect _perfection_ from any person, even a ruler.
She is no longer a shining paragon of virtue? Brilliant - now she's more... human?
Celestia rules by deception and manipulation? Uhm - that's Court Politics you've described. In fact, politics in general. Seeing as how it seems to have worked, I have to ask why that is apparently a _bad_ thing?
Celestia has the M6 cleaning up her mistakes? Okay, I'll grant you, this is a possibility - with a thousand years to try and suppress the information, and no need to disseminate it herself, it is entirely possible that she could rewrite history any way she liked.
Of course, with over a thousand years of history to choose from, they could simply have faded from knowledge. NMM was, at the time of the premiere, nothing more than an old folk tale, more popularly known as 'the Mare in the Moon', and only remembered due to a celebration (which Celestia could easily have abolished). And she was the most recent event.
Discord? Was thought to be nothing more than a statue. The Crystal Empire? Appears to have little relevence to Equestrian history.
And in both the latter cases - they were thought _gone forever_.
Of those three instances, only with her sister could she probably have served better than the M6. And it would have been a very final solution to that problem - _not_ something I expect family to do when there are still other options.
Finally - Chrysalis. Again, she proved herself not infallible. By right of conquest, technically, Shining Armour and Cadence ought to be in charge now.
But as you say, 'might' makes for a horrible justification for rule. By this point, Celestia is the recognised legitimate ruler of Equestria - she needs no reason to continue her reign, we need reasons to stop it! Is a successful incursion by enemy forces reason enough to remove our leader? Only if they were the reason the security forces failed to do their jobs.
Even if Celestia truly only delayed until she could send Twilight, as you say, _she_ manipulated Twilight into existence as her ultimate super-weapon. As terrifying as the thought might be that she planned out a filly's life from before she even existed, it hardly shows an incompetent ruler.
So, no, I don't believe you have demonstrated why Celestia, at least, does not deserve her crown.
As for her morality - eh. The morality of nations is not the morality of individuals.
How is this anything but ham fisted views from an authors viewpoint? Honestly, can someone tell me?
Take a look to Seeing the pattern and sequel, where we get luna up and killing pinkie to preserve the lives that were meant to be. It's cold, its darn, its done in front of celestia and others, and they are told to suck it up and go on. Luna does not care, and at least, it does not break the suspension. This does so by chapter two. But really, luna here comes across badly as an author expy/avatar almost.
Luna comes in, with enough mental force its rape in all but name. Dear heck, the omnicidal AI's of fiction are kinder, at least they have the intelligence to make them seek death, or die slowly. But luna, nope. You get to live with a smile, knowing that if you dont, you have to be a prisoner in your mind as she uses you for shits and giggles.
This kiddies is when you wait till midday, and go swallow the stuff under the sink, equivalently and pray that she's not made the loophole smart enough that it stops you.
There's just nothing remotely to view here as anything but "I want to shock for shock sake."
All thats been done here, is basically a power hungry arse deciding to get her kicks off with her deciding "It's my sandbox, and I want you as my next toy." to the broken souls that she could have tried to fix, you know, when they are alive? But I guess she gets the satisfaction of watching them die. After all, she's already invalidating their choice to die, whats one more step to start a few minutes before they off their 'happy little life' ? None.
4378054
Did you read anything past the first chapter?
Graves reminds me of Eeyore with a pinch of anger and hate.
4378063
Marvin the Paranoid Android and Colonel Kurtz as well.
4378006 I'm sorry for intruding upon your genius. I do love this story!
4378056 1-4, actually. And even the comments many folks offered on the nature of many topics that this hits. They are quite eloquent, well thought out, and impassioned, and pleaded well.
But its not the point I sought to make. So long as luna removes the choice of death, and the victims choice in and after her 'saving' then really, ultimately noct is irrelevant to the story, despite being the main focus, because its not him, its luna's interdiction here.
I get the notion that Noctilucent's cutie mark is a candle for a specific reason. People use candles to light their way in the dark. And from the way Luna is prodding him, it sounds like she wants him to lead the foals to happier times. To bring a little light back into their lives. I could be completely wrong, of course, but that's my interpretation of the candle. And why Luna blew out the flame on it. He's supposed to bring the light back to the foals, and also they, to bring light back to his life.
4378128
Can you see what Luna is trying to do though?
How is this any different than placing someone into a suicide ward?
Gentle repurposing.
I find the whole thing highly unsettling, but I could see a being of near infinite power doing something like this.
4378151
A suicide ward has and helps the person change because they want to.
Luna is breaking another b**** in and turning them into the nice little productive workhorse equestria needs.
A geas is never how you fix someone. A geas is how you control and break someone thats 'dangerous' 'destructive' and 'evil' in a humane and kind way, by making him experience whatever you want them to do, out of fear that you will make their lives a literal hell if they don't shape up and sit right.
A geas is the 'moral' way of saying "I'm trying to look merciful here, by giving you the option of debilitating pain" (Usually) "or you can take option two." (Death, dismemberment, whatever the being doing this wants to enforce.)
A mental ward fixes problems by addressing them and repairing the mind with trained and qualified people.
Luna sends noct to a pimp to condition him better.
I could be eloquent, but here, when others are trying the carrot to show their words. The stick seems a potent alternative of what many seem to be viewing this matter as.
4377449 I never said they were goddesses, merely that their level of magical power was, for practical purpose, nearly divine. While I can't recall the offcial source that said that prior to the Sisters Unicorns raised the Sun & Moon, I am certain if they did, it would take a MAJORITY of them. When you break the physics down, the amount of energy it would require to move a stellar body, even a small one like the moon, is staggering. As in, can not be expressed in words, only in scientific notation staggering. But, as I've said before, there is no evidence that they took control of Equestria by force, or even that they use force to maintain their control. We merely have evidence that anypony who tries to take power from them would find themselves completely and utterly fucked.
You are correct however, and I do need to make an adjustment to my previous statement. Thought it isn't the quite the same as the one you made.
As you go on to point out, History is written by the victors, and so far the Sisters have been on the winning side every single time. Combined with their position as the ruling power in Equestria, they are in a perfect position to write History as they see fit. However, I see it less as covering up their failures, and more a combination of a few facts. The Sisters always seem to focus on the final outcome, IE what went right. The silver lining to events. This is a VERY common tactic by governments everywhere. It's practically universal. Ponies themselves are naturally trusting, especially of those they deem to be in authority. They WANT to believe the best of their leaders. Humans are similar in this fact. Look at any major political faction, and you will find that its followers tend to gloss over their chosen leaders faults, and focus on the thing they do/did right. Usually.
Now I agree that what we have seen in the show does NOT give many examples of either Sister being good at solving major problems. Celestia didn't step in when Nightmare Moon was going to return, or even acknowledge it, and neither Sister tried to do anything during the Crystal Empire, Discord, or Tirek events. (I'm discounting the Chrysalis event for a two reasons. One, the storyline has SO MANY DAMN PLOTHOLES that it's practically swiss cheese, and two, there are so many questions that were not answered BECAUSE of said plotholes.) However, I have to point out some very good reasons for their non-action during those times.
Discord- For the first Discord event, they no longer had the ability to use weapon that needed to be used. (The EoH) And the second? They knew Fluttershy, being the Element of Kindness, had the best possible chance to reach Discord. If she couldn't, then only the EoH could reseal him back up. Celestia DID bring those along with Discord, making sure they Mane Six were armed. So, I have to say that was the right call to make.
Crystal Empire- The Sisters had already faced Sombra in combat, and proved themselves to be his better. But there was great cost in that action. The Crystal Heart was never recovered, and Sombra's last action was to take the Crystal Empire with him. Knowing this, and that the Empire's return likely meant Sombra's as well, it would make sense they wouldn't want to just head over there themselves and bring another magical beat down to Sombra. All that would do is cause the Empire to be lost again, because they know Sombra is a sore loser. So they send the Mane Six, Cadence, Shining Armor, and Spike. This serves a two fold purpose. One, it can help teach Twilight that it is ok to rely on others. And two, if the nine of them can restore the Empire properly, and beat Sombra, than the Sisters wont have to step in. This puts 8 ponies and one dragon at risk, but also gives a shot at saving everypony who was lost when the Crystal Empire vanished. Absolute worst case, they KNOW they can beat Sombra even if Twilight & Co fail, it just comes with a big price tag. But even if they had to pay the price, losing Twilight & Co along with the Crystal Empire, all they have to do is play the waiting game until they can try again. And time almost always favors the immortal.
Tirek- At first this one again shows the Sisters in a rather poor light. Rather than do nothing, it seems the Sisters actively surrender, giving up all their power and letting Tirek do what he wants. But, the finale does go to show why they again made the right call. Tirek did NOT know about the 4th Alicorn Princess. Thus, when they gave their powers up to Twilight, they were hoping that she would RUN AND HIDE, leaving Tirek to chase down their power, but unable to find it. They even tell Twilight NOT to reveal what has been done, even to her closest friends. Backed into a corner, with no other real alternative, they choose the only path that they can, one that delays Tirek's final victory for as long as possible. This actually does make sense. Tirek has somehow managed to get Discord on his side, and the Sisters KNOW they are no match for Discord. Nothing save the EoH has ever been able to match him. Hiding their power away with Twilight was the only thing they really could do, even if it was only a stalling tactic. Even with Discord to reveal Twilight's identity, this action still makes sense. Twilight is the Element of Magic, even if she no longer has the physical gem anymore. Who better to give the combined power to than the pony who can best make use of it. With all the power at her disposal she was able to match Tirek, even after he had absorbed all of Discords powers. When your only option is either losing or going with the plan with practically zero chance, you take the later option. In this case, it was "Make Twilight a practical magic deity, and pray she can find a solution to this." It was a batshit crazy plan, no argument there. But had they chosen to fight, even united, only fate that awaited them was having Tirek drain their power win. As for why they sent Discord against Tirek in the first place, that is fairly obvious. Had they sent the Mane Six at the start, it would have run the risk of him getting Alicorn, Unicorn, Pegisi, and Earth Pony magic right at the start. They didn't know just how strong he was or not. So rather than risk giving Tirek the power he was after, they sent the god they felt they could trust. After all, nopony could have forseen Tirek being able to turn Discord to his side, and even Discord was certain that Tirek could never match him in power, no matter how many ponies he drained.
Nightmare Moon- The last one, but certainly not the least. These two events are perhaps the best look we have at Celestia's mind. In the first, her sister goes insane and becomes a monstrous threat to all of Equestria. This is a DIRECT result of Celestia's FAILURE. There were MANY things she could have done to prevent the first NMM event, and failed due to not paying close enough attention to what her sister was suffering through. This is the biggest failure of Celestia's life (perhaps also her first), and she knows it. The fact that she failed her sister, her best friend, is why the EoH no longer work for her. It is my headcanon that Celestia KNEW how to control the EoH, even if only partly, and CHOSE to banish her sister, sealing her away, only to realize after it was over just what a terrible mistake she had made. The line she uses, as she is gathering the EoH to use against NMM, "You leave me with no choice sister." is complete and utter bullshit. She had choices, plenty of them. She just made the wrong one too many times. Now I am not saying that Luna is blameless in this, it is also her own failure that helped lead to this event after all. Merely that Sunbutt had just as much, if not greater, fault in it, because she was in a better position to prevent it from ever happening. Luna was suffering, ponies would sleep through her night, afraid to go out in the dark, because of the terrible things that happened in the dark during Discord's rule. Nothing Luna tried change the fact that everypony was terrified to go out at night, and thus afraid of Luna herself, Princess of the Night. When you are getting blamed for things like that, especially when its not your fault, then you start to go down some very dark paths. Celestia should have see this, and helped both her sister and their little ponies, but she did not.
Fast forward 1000 years. I agree with you, Celestia HAS been manipulating Twilight's life, ever since she first laid eyes on the little filly. Perhaps even before that. Now this is only possible if Celestia has access to certain information, namely, that Twilight is a future Element of Harmony. If she knows that much, it is also very likely that she knows who the other 5 are. Celestia knows when NMM was going to be free, so she must have set up Ponyville as the host for the festival well in advance. And as you said, she set things up so that the ponies in charge were the other 5 Elements. But after going that far, almost perfectly setting things up so that the Bearers would all be together at the right time, why not arm them fully? Why did she never tell Twilight & Co the full truth about NMM and the EoH? Celestia claims near the end of Part 2 that she knew that Twilight would succeed. It IS possible, with the raw magical talent at her disposal, perhaps she can foresee the future. If that is the case, then she literally rigging the game, and every thing she does is part of a Xanatos Gambit. Personally? I don't think so. I think that a very real (but rather small) part of Celestia did NOT want Twilight to succeed. Her guilt, even after 1000 years, was still eating away at her. So, out of that very guilt, she leaves an opening in her preparations. A chance for NMM to win, and for Luna to have her revenge on the sister that cause her so much pain.
Now as for the Sister's "right" to rule... I am mixed opinions on that. Ponies certainly feel that the Sisters have divine right to rule and do as they wish. And they have a History of doing the job very well, of the major events I listed off, only 1 of them is an abject failure, and that was the first NMM event.The rest are rather carefully orchestrated Gambits. But then I am reminded of Celestia's manipulation of Twilight Sparkle. All these lessons seemed to be aimed at making her a better leader, better than even the Sisters. Even her name, Twilight, seems to be a rather fitting, as it the time between Day and Night. It seems very likely that the Sisters, or at least Celestia, realizes that their rule needs to end, and somepony else must rise up and take their place.
4377454 Me too. I actually agree with many of his points, but I feel I must remain the Devil's Advocate.
4378188
And I agree with most of what you are saying.
Luna actually scares me.
Gentle subversiveness.
**Shudder**
4378151
If you call the systematic stripping away of everything that makes a person a person "gentle".
4378223
There are many who would call it that.
I don't actually believe that it is, but I can write it in character.
4377999 Well that... actually makes sense... thanks!
Well, you have softened the standing a bit, to all intents and purposes, and have added a much needed comedic element to draw the eye away from the philosophical implications of the story. Very well played.
4377749
True.
When Twilight flipped her muffin she filled the town with more chaos than Discord himself.
Luna? she used the power to create harmony ... (even if it is involuntarily )
4378223
4378237
Was Anything stripped from him other than his ability to hurt himself?
If it was I am sorry to say that I missed it...
Stopping someone from hurting himself so he can receive necessary psychological counseling does not seem all that bad to me ...
4378410
Give the next chapter a shot. It gets better.
4378215
Well, I'm gonna challenge all those points you made about the Princess' reasons for non-action. Won't that be fun?
And who's fault is that? I'd say Celestia's. She had over a thousand years to look into lore and history pertaining to Draconnequi. Over a thousand years to find some other possible way to defeat him.
She didn't.
Master tactician, ain't she?
Oh please, she took a gamble. She doesn't know that much about Discord. She doesn't know who would be the best possible candidate. She just sent him to someone she thought might manage it.
Not quite true.
They sent Cadance and Shining Armor to secure the empire; then they sent the Mane Six and Spike.
You know what they could have done instead? Send Cadance and SA to secure the empire, and then fucking went themselves. Surely two ponies who actually know what the hell they're looking for would be better than eight ponies and a dragon who don't even know that they are supposed to be looking for something.
We are talking about the possible end of the world. That is not a particularly ideal time to try to teach a pony a lesson in leadership.
Laziness.
Yeah, so long as Sombra doesn't gain control of the empire. What do you think would happen immediately after he defeated Twi & Co.?
Then why didn't they tell Twilight to go into hiding? Even if she did, what would that accomplish? He still has control of Equestria. He still has the powers of every other pony in Equestria. He still has Discord. He still fucking wins, he just doesn't get the full collector's set.
Which is absolutely STUPID. How often has this strategy proven to pay off in the past? How often has it actually proven to be detrimental?
The only thing that not telling her friends can accomplish, is exactly what happened: They end up as a trump card.
It does no such thing.
And that's another point. This plan was concocted before Tirek had absorbed Discord's powers. Before he had completed his conquest of Equestria. He didn't yet have the power that he had during his final showdown with Twilight.
SO WHY THE BLUBBERING FUCK DIDN'T THEY ALL GO TAKE HIM DOWN IN THE FIRST PLACE?
They were more than a match for him. They could have easily bum-rushed him while he wasn't ready, and taken him down before he even had the chance to get to Canterlot. Fighting four people at the same time is significantly more difficult than fighting one person.
*seethes with fury*
Any imbecile with half a brain could see that coming. I saw it coming from the season opening.
Okay.
It's my headcanon that the Elements cannot be controlled by anyone. Doesn't mean that either of us are right.
Of course it is. That's why she said it.
Well, that's conjecture.
Lol. Longpost is long.
4378398
The ability to choose is, philosophically, everything that makes a person more than an animal.
An animal cannot choose to hurt itself. A person can.
Besides, the ability to hurt himself wasn't the only thing Luna took from him. She took his ability to choose basically anything. Why did he go to Mustang Springs? Because Luna took away his ability to choose not to go. Why is he fraternizing with ponies he doesn't know? Because Luna took away his ability to not do so.
>>>There is one thing that Luna cannot stand. Wasted potential.>>>
Hence, she is totally pissed at the Season 4 finale.