I am a humorist. I write funny stuff... I hope. Since my pony-name appears to be Dusk Dash (there is a chart), I have decided to dedicate my life to quick and evil science!
Rarity is the most beautiful mare in all of ponyivlle, the most feminine Element of Harmony and the sweetest, most wonderful being, Spike has ever laid eyes on.
But she has a secret. A secret that she has to share with him tonight.
What if Spike finds out soemthing he would have never expected?
Rarity (male) and Spike (male) one-shot scene, based on a forum dialogue, I had a short while ago.
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Wow truely amazing!
3813372 I am very happy that you enjoyed it.
You should do a sequel to this explaining how Fluttershy took the news.
dude this is too good to not have a sequel or follow up, the fluttershy story idea is good too
A rather interesting story and some interesting implications.
I think one of the things I like most is the fact that she has to stay like this. Often, Magic is seen as a be all, end all solution, it's nice to see it with it's limits.
And although one could say "What about Discord's Magic?", such a thing would detract from the impact of the story. This could be seen not only as Rarity having to bare her secrets, but as a test of Spike's love, about whether his is simply a physical infatuation or real, actual love. In that way, it kind of reminds me of the story Skin Deep.
good to the point where I want to see them consummate their relationship... transformation or not
Finally a full trans Rarity story (there was a very small one a long time ago that has been lost). And it was a disclosure in a romantic setting story, which is new.
You really managed to make Rarity's pain and despair show.
I am a bit disappointed in Spike. One does not ask a mare to remove her magic hairband like that, whatever configuration they may be. Sadly, that sort of thing is common. Though, I have high hopes that he will eventually realize that he shouldn't have asked that.
I will be adding this to the list of transpony stories I have compiled, which is on my userprofile page for all to access, and make a post announcing this on my blog soon.
Huh. I'm kind of disappointed that it ends on that note. I kind of understand Spike's confusion, and I liked that he seemed to recognize that Rarity was the same mare he fell in love with even if he now knew that she has nonstandard equipment. I really would have liked to see him accept her at the end, though, instead of leaving it open (even if that often isn't how it ends in real life… this is MLP fiction, darn it, I want my warm and fuzzies!).
*Ponyville.
I just saw this story in the feature box. Impressive. That is an Elusive feat, quite a Rarity.
This was really nice. Good job.
And it got featured.
Congratulations.
And then they had the gayest straight sex in the history of Equestria!
Magic not fixing everything? A fic tagged for romance when it ended on a totally open note?
And Spike forgot to take his things, and Rarity forgot to mention it.
I don't know if I hate or love this. I'll give it a thumbs-up before I change my mind.
First of all, this was a quite good story, with Rarity being excellently portrayed and characterized, and her feelings of pain and anguish are well done. The part where she broke down crying was especially powerful. While one of Spike's actions was way out of line, I still liked how he was portrayed as well.
Yeah, right.
I am aware that having something like this be not immediately fixable can make for a better story, but this feels totally contrived.
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To be honest, it feels more like a political shout-out, this dives straight past M/M and into, "Hey look at me and how I'm stuck in a body that is at opposition with a mentality I've adopted and there's no possible way I could be wrong or that there might be legitimately opposing views about it."
Not going to read this, not that I read M/M to begin with... But there is something to be said for turning a story into a work of propaganda - subtle brainwash not subtle.
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It's really not that simple. I'm not 100% sure what you're trying to say either.
People being and feeling this way isn't because of "propaganda".
Hmm...
I am strangely okay with this, and I have a somewhat close minded opinion on it in general. I mean it seems like you are fighting nature and DNA which would make it pretty cut and dry. However, If I knew an individual who was TG, I'd tell them to do what makes them happy. I think this might have made me a little less against it. I think ponies helped me figure out my feelings on homosexuality, so why not TG too. Can't stop being someone's friend because of who they are. 
Damn it now I'm crying... 
The only real problem with this was that a sex-change operation being impossible seemed... contrived, especially given the display by Twilight (it may have been a trick, but it seems to be possible despite that). One wonders how much was done physically, and what procedures there are in place to verify and assist...
3815753 I can only agree that Spike's actions were not the most appropriate. Then again, he was deeply in shock at the time. As for it being contrived: Yes, I completely agree. But I have to ask for your suspension of disbelieve here. If there was a way to change, Rarity would have already done it. If she still had hope to change, she wouldn't have confessed her situation to Spike like this. I had to close all doors here, sorry.
3814871 Usually, I am completely with you, but here, I wanted to go less warm fuzzy happy and more realistically. Though it is heavily implied that Spike still feels for her.
3815865
Given what real-life people with such gender-dysphoria go through, everything you've just written is pretty offensive. This story was pretty far from "propaganda", it was a relatively unrealistic (given that Spike didn't freak the fuck out and beat Rarity up or say he never wants to see her again) but I wouldn't call it brainwashing.
Sure, this Rarity might be "wrong", but most who go that far with things in real life face such hardship that being "wrong" makes them pathological. It's hard to imagine they would want to go through what they go through by choice.
3814691 I am not too happy with Spike's reaction either, but anything else felt weird. This is a strange and frightening situation and sometimes, we act badly.
3815865 So, you didn't read it, but you call it propaganda? Just to justify myself: I didn't write this to change anybody's mind. I wrote this, because I thought the idea of Rarity being a stallion, who could never accept his gender was an interesting idea and because I wondered how Spike would react. My only political agenda on this site is getting romantic attention from all those sexy MLP cosplayers (hasn't worked so far).
3816282 I am very happy to hear that you keep an open mind about these things. As for fighting nature: Actually, some TG people only fight a part of nature. When I studied Psychology our teacher showed us some studied that the brain chemistry of many TG people were actually closer to the chemistry of the gender, they identified with, rather than the one their bodies had. And TG is not a absolute thing. There are some who simply wish to wear the clothes of the other gender or identify with it, but accept their bodies, while others (such as Rarity, as I tried to portray her here) is on the extreme side and literally fells trapped in an alien body.
3816489 Thanks for sticking up for people who are usually the butt of jokes. And just to clarify: Spike will probably get angry on the way home or start blaming Rarity at some point (to which degree, I leave open) but at the moment, he is more confused and scared, rather than angry. To shocked even to strike out.
3815560 Oh, Spike didn't forget the items. He just didn't feel like taking them back... yet (maybe). Make your own judgement if he will come and fetch them later, or if Rarity may keep his tokens of affection.
This was very good, only problem is it could use another chapter. I don't think Spike would give a damn, he'd be like that millionaire in "Some Like it Hot" (a better slap stick comedy version of White Chicks circa 1959 staring Marilyn Monroe Jack Lemmon and Tony Curtis) anyway at the end when Lemmon's character reveals that he's a dude, the rich guy is like meh.
3816885 Do you REALLY think I don't know that movie? "Nobody's perfect..."
While I wish I could say the same, I am not so sure... Spike himself is rather insecure in many regards, like his being a dragon among ponies, so I think he would take at least a bit of time before he would accept the facts. Maybe just a night, maybe a week.
Though, I will consider writing a bit more of this story. No promises, though.
3815865
Because your opinion on what someone's gender is is so much more valid than that person's own. You want a say in what my favorite color or my favorite food is, too? You wanna tell me who I'm really attracted to? I'm sure you'd know better than me, right?
3817219 HA! My brainwashing already worked! Soon you all will stop caring what other people do with their sexuality, bodies or opinions and then: Global domination! You will all end up in my slave mines where you will be forced to marry exactly who you are told, life a life like any other person, have children, no matter if you want or not and suffer from oppression at all... no, wait, that is what people like Ecstatic wants... sorry, my bad.
3815150 IT IS?
What the... Didn't expect that... Rarity, most of Fimfiction will know!
Well done!
The conversation comes off as very genuine and I think it does a good job at demonstrating (realistically) what such a conversation can be like between two people who genuinly care for each other. There is never a right time to tell someone you love or even like that you are trans, and this shows how difficult and hurtful it can be. I'd love to see more.
Oh my god this is good, please write a sequel or another chapter, it needs to be finished!
First: The fic:
I'd say you did a good job. Dialogue felt realistic. Rarity seemed perfectly in-character. Spike... is debatable. He's hard, because he doesn't get much screentime. Not sure if his reaction was 100% in character, but then again, i'm not confident enough to blatantly say he was out of character, so... you must've handled him pretty good. (might've expected a bit more reluctance on his part, at least due to initial shock... but then again, maybe not, so... *shrugs*)
And Now: Fic-Incited Interesting discussion:
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First of all, you're right. Ecstatic really shouldn't be complaining here, if he isn't even going to bother to read the fic. The comments are for discussion and praise/criticism, but reading the story you're commenting on is obviously an implied pre-requisite.
Is this fic propaganda? Probably not, but there does exist the possibility. I don't know anything about the author, BUT IF the author is or is associated with someone who is transgendered, then this could be biased information, used to promote or publicize a particular point of view. (not calling this fic propaganda, just trying to shed light on why someone might make the mistake of thinking this is propaganda)
Now, with regards to Bico's comment:
If rarity was to say, "I feel like a mare, despite being in a colt's body" or "I've always wanted to be a mare", these are both identity-aligned propositions, aka opinions and emotions, and they cannot be argued with. A person's preference, feelings, or personal take on a matter is their own, and no one can pretend to know any better about these things than the person them-self.
However,
If rarity was to say "I am a mare in a colt's body"... This... This is up for debate. There is a difference between feeling like a mare, wanting to be a mare, and actually being one. But first, one must have defined and understood what a mare is, to make such an evaluation.
Now, I'm going to cut to humans for this one, as this probably isn't really about ponies, and I'm not familiar with the growth cycles of ponies anyway. ALL HUMANS START AS FEMALES. Yes, believe it or not, this is true. In the beginning, when we're still just a clump of cells, we're all females. Now, at some point in the womb, to continue on for the entirety of a person's life, those who are destined to remain as females, receive female hormones, and their anatomy and mind come to reflect this hormone, in some easily observable gender-aligned traits. Those who are destined to become males receive male hormones, and their anatomy and mind come to reflect this hormone, in some easily observable gender-aligned traits. (repetition was on purpose) But the point is, we all start from the same base, the formation of "gender" is basically entirely chemical. The chemical affects both the mind and body.
Now, the reason so many people are skeptical about phenomena such as "female in a male's body", is because... when a person develops into an entirely typical male as far as anatomy is concerned, the implication is that the male hormone was both produced by the person, and effective in influencing their anatomy. Since the hormone usually also affects the mind, if one has already proven that the hormone is both there, and effective, from an anatomical point of view, then why would it not also be effective from a psychological point of view? Why would the brain and consciousness be any less affected by the hormones, than the mammary glands, gonads, vocal chords, bone structure, muscles, metabolic rate, and other anatomical systems? It would seem more likely that the person would be 'mistaken' in their self-conducted gender evaluation, that their consciousness would've made a mistake on the basis of 'thought' than the anatomy messing up, and producing a perfectly typical male body, with a female mind. (and vice-versa)
Now, before I conclude, I just want to say two things before all hell is unleashed upon me:
A) Yes, I recognize there is the case in which the anatomy isn't typical, in which the body may posses traits of both sexes, and what I've said above obviously doesn't apply to those cases. I'm addressing when the body seems perfectly typical for one sex, but the mind doesn't agree. Obviously those with mixed anatomical features are a sort of 'gray-area' in these discussions, and the ability to define gender is much less easily evaluated. (and thus, should be left to the person's discretion)
B) I don't actually care about whether or not a person chooses their gender. I may also be skeptical, at times, about whether or not those who have chosen to align with the opposite gender, are correct in their decisions; But that is it. A minor skepticism. My opinions are not cemented, and I try to keep an open mind, so that I can grow as a person, in the face of superior data to what I have at present. (superior data coming from: arguments, research, studies, experiences, etc) But the point remains, any skepticism are only present due to innate human curiosity (the 'how can you be so sure' phenomena), and the innate human tendency to form beliefs based on that which we've observed / been exposed to. I don't present my argument as a form of hate (I believe in love and tolerance), I only argue so that all involved can have fun and grow, as we engage in the practices of 'communication' and 'critical thinking'. (I also love to play devil's advocate, and will even go so far as to argue a view contrary to my own, if no one else is arguing for that side)
3821276 Oh, that was a long comment.
Now, let me be clear with this: I don't know any TG people personally, neither on the internet, nor privately. And I am not TG myself. This is just a thought experiment characterized and written down. I don't have an agenda here, besides making people feel something.
Now, I have to disagree with you: As a writer, I try to keep characters IC, of course and you mentioned that the fic would promote some agenda more if Rarity was to say "I am a mare in a stallion's body". The thing is, this is not MY point of view on the issue, but hers. Rarity loves herself some drama and extremes. She is not my proxy. If she was, she would say something like "I am a stallion, but due to my upbringing, brain chemistry and psychosociological circumstance, I identify with what society labels female and want to be seen as such."
Rarity as a character would just say "I am a mare, yet alas, I am trapped in this body of a stallion..." and then faint on her couch.
As for the scientific point of view: It has been proven that the brain chemistry of many TG people is actually closer to the brain chemistry of the gender, they identify with, rather than the one, they biologically possess. Some TG women even lack the receptors that react to the hormones, responsible for the psychological parts of menstruation.
But this story here is not about those facts. This is about Rarity having to deal with her crux. And she is not a representative for the entire TG movement, now do I pretend that she is. This story is supposed to entertain, not change your minds.
3821817 I guess there won't be any long, back and forth discussion then... darn.
Still a good story though.
3821874 Sorry to not provide more of an discussion partner on this subject. Apparently my brainwashing already worked (MUAHAHAHAHA). Glad you kept enough mental freedom to praise me, though (or is the mindwiping already working?). Your comment was very insightful and interesting to read, though.
Megapost of multiquotes here I come.
Just noticed something with the tags. This is not necessarily Alternate Universe, though it can be depending on one's head cannons. Nothing has been shown in the show to indicate that any of the mane 6, let alone any other characters, are cis gender or trans gender.
3815483
I am not sure what to think of that. Though it does remind me of the YKYTW (You Know You're Trans When) tumblr and a a very particular post : You know you'r trans (and your partner is too), when you are a girl and have to worry about getting your boyfriend pregnant.
3815865
First, its not M/M. Second, nothing wrong with M/M. Three, while I can respect not reading something for whatever reason, one should read it before commenting except in extraordinary circumstances. Four, this doesn't read of propaganda. Rarity merely explains her situation to Spike before they start dating so that he knows, and can turn back before the relationship goes any further. This is a thing that happens for trans people (and surely ponies), so it is merely a story of one such experience.
3816282
If you are interested in any other stories, I have a whole list of them on my user profile page. I suggest
Dash's Secret
The first chapter is in present day and deals with Rainbow Dash dealing with her parents and the rest of the mane 6 finding out. What is really interesting, are the other chapters, which are prequel chapters about her life as a young trans filly. Its just a story of her experiences, not providing any information about trans ponies (and in extension, trans people). It is a pretty good one and the author does a good job at conveying the characters' emotions.
3816488
Actually, even if she had been able to find some sort of magic to completely convert her body, she would have still would likely have felt compelled to disclose her trans status. And it would have still been as hard and risky.
3817397
It happens sometimes, but I wish it would happen more. Dash's Secret, many of the Dysporia Series, I think All That Glitters (or was it that it got featured on EQD), I think Fluttershy the Transcolt did once, and I think The Mirror and the Mare did too once.
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3821817
Like WithRegardsTo pointed out, humans develop initially as female. Now, the differentiation time is where things get interesting. The gonad differentiation is controlled by the SRY gene (wikipedia has a lot of good info) which is typically on the Y chromosome. When it activates, the gonads develop into testis instead of ovaries. Sometimes, it gets deactivated and doesn't work. Sometimes it gets transferred over to an X chromosome from a crossover. So a lot of things can happen here.
But the gene does nothing else at all. All other differentiation is due to hormones. The reason the SRY gene usually sets this is because the hormone wave that causes further differentiation is generated by the newly differentiated gonads. So, XY people (or the few XX people with an SRY gene) who have Androgen Insensitivity otherwise develop as females (both anatomically and gender identity wise) depending on how strong the insensitivity is, which can range from slight all the way to complete (at this end, no matter how much testosterone is in one's system, there will be no response, which must really suck if one is a trans guy with it).
The current line of medical thought (lots and lots of work left on it and other ideas) is that something going wrong in the initial blast of the hormone wave from the newly differentiated gonads and/or background hormone levels before it and/or differing sensitivities to hormones before or during the wave, can cause the brain to differentiate down a different path from the rest of the body. This idea originated from trying to explain how the brains of binary gendered (there are more than two genders, by the way, so male and female are referred to as the binary genders) trans people are different from cis people of the same birth sex and more like cis people of the other birth sex (matches their gender identity). A couple studies I was able to find on short notice are http://dx.doi.org/10.1093/brain/awn276, http://dx.doi.org/10.1210/jcem.85.5.6564 (note, it has the same PI (Primary Investigator) as the first one), http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.neuroimage.2009.03.048 (full PDF can be found at http://dbm.neuro.uni-jena.de/pdf-files/Luders-NI09-2.pdf) (this paper finds that while some parts of the brain differentiated according to birth sex in MTF individuals, others did not), http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.jpsychires.2010.05.006.
Not as much information has currently been found on the origins of non-binary gender identities, sadly.
Now, at the end of the day, I would argue, it doesn't really matter what the medical cause is or if we ever find it (beyond scientific curiosity (I can't help but have such curiosity as a scientist (different discipline)). If a person says their gender is X, why say otherwise. That is the lens that said person walks through the world with. While their anatomy may not match that and/or they may not have lived as gender X (obviously, this is kind of hard for non-binary people) at all, not that long, or their whole life; at least some part of them has at least some of the experience of being X. Given that, it must certainly isn't a lie, even if it were incorrect (there is a huge difference between truth and lie, and correct and incorrect). And I would argue it is most definitely correct as opposed to incorrect.
3821817
I am trans gender. Also, you probably do know more than a few IRL and just don't know (and some of them may not themselves completely know yet). There are more of us than most people imagine.
3822714 You learn something new everyday. (it seems I had the basic idea down, but you provided much more detail than I had knowledge of, you also provided the theory for why the brain and anatomy can deviate, a theory I wasn't familiar with)
I'll get to those PDFs in a bit. I gotta fix my computer first. (right now, i'm on some old dell computer, I put chromium OS on it (some vanilla developer's testing copy or something), but the shitty thing about chromium OS, is you can basically browse the web, look at photos, or listen to music... but that's it. By default, you can't execute programs, can't edit documents, can't even view a PDF. chromebooks at least get a few things though, like flash and java i've heard, but this shitty developer's copy doesn't even have those. ) When my computer is fixed, I'll be able to view the PDFs. (my main computer runs GNU/Linux - Crunchbang... but... its broke cuz the PSU is busted, I gotta go buy another)
i.imgur.com/beQneXR.png
3822816
Just so you know, those papers are about brain differences, not the leading idea about the leading idea of timing and background hormones being the cause.
3822714 I won't answer to all parts of the post, but here are a few things I want to express.
First: I marked it AU because it differentiates from both what I think is canon and from the canon I adopted in my other stories. Just to make that clear.
Second: Yes, if there had been a magic to convert her, she would have still had to say it. But she would have expressed it very differently and with not nearly as much despair and finality. It would have been a fairy tale twist for her and given her much more inclination to ask Spike to accept her past as over, rather than say it the way she did.
Third: So, there is enough proof that binary gender roles are a completely social construct and that society should work on understanding, tolerating and accepting all members of itself. I hope this goes off quicker than female rights, racial equality and this whole "love thy next" thing. (God, I am jaded)
Fourth: Ok, I phrased that very badly. I know several trans-gender individuals from by job as a paramedic, from parties and via other groups. But I consider none of them so close to me as to say that I "know" them in a sense that I know their personal history, call them close friends and have their phone numbers or the like.
So, is this actually 'complete'? I mean, it doesn't seem to be over for either of them in that regard. And, barring haters who will still gonna hate, I wouldn't imagine anyone not see them STILL together. I mean honestly. Spike can't impregnate a pony anyway (probably). So the gender... Well. Doesn't matter at all. He loves Rarity the pony. And Rarity the Unicorn (horns have their benefits, let none say otherwise). But not Rarity male or female. You can't just slap in human perceptions of trans- and hope to make it work believeably.
But still, t'would be sweet to see this continue.
3822981 I have decided to add a chapter, featuring Rarity, confessing her nature to Fluttershy.
But as far as Spike is concerned, I will not dive into the subject anymore. This has never been supposed to be a complete story. It is a snapshot of the most difficult part for this set up: the confession.
If you believe that Spike can see through the confusion and strangeness he feels at the moment and love Rarity the way she is, well, what do you need me for?
I left it open, so everyone can decide for themselves.
3823044 Fair enough.
3822714
Sadly enough, I know that feel.
3823044
"If you can visualize the story's end, why am I here?"
That is the laziest thing I have ever heard from an author.
It was written well, but it didn't end on a note that tied any loose ends it created. People are (understandably) wondering why you would call this a complete story when you leave it off at the halfway point, and you--the author--basically say that it is our job--the readers--to end the story how we want.
That's not to say you can't write a story and leave loose ends; that leaves rooms for future chapters, sequels and/or fans to write their own ending. But you haven't written a story; all you have here is a concept for a story. I have hundreds of those myself. But it's not a good idea to just write the concept and then not flesh it out with an actual story, unless you're supplying material for another author to use.
I'm still leaving that thumbs up because the writing itself was good.
Dug this shit, good work mang.
3822910
Perfectly reasonable.
You are right about her expressing it different if that were the case.
Yeah, I hope it goes forward as well. There is a lot of societally constructed stuff regards to gender. Gender identity itself certainly has a non-constructed core, but roles are completely constructed.
Oh, I see what you were saying.
3823044
I look forward to it.
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I would slightly disagree. It was a short story with a single conflict that was resolved. Rarity had to deliver her coming out, fully complete it, and withstand Spike's immediate questions. That conflict was resolved.
3825500
Except that's exactly what the summary explains the story is about. So the one and only conflict in the story is exactly what the readers are expecting. Unless you have a person who knows nothing about transgender, doesn't know that the community collectively refers to male Rarity as Elusive, and didn't read the summary.
I didn't read the story to read an in-depth version of what the summary said; I read it because I expected the story to use that to immerse me in a world of the author's own creation. Even if that world was only a few thousand words deep, it can still be wonderful to explore.
That wasn't a bad little fic. Nice to drink my tea over.
The ambiguity of the ending is slightly jarring however.
3822714
Feels like I have a homework assignment all of a sudden. I knew about the hormones changing female parts to male. The other stuff I may come back to tomorrow to read. It sounds interesting.
needs more likes this is stunning manly tears
The more lighthearted outlook on this part is a bit more believable, it is Fluttershy, after all. Although it seems a bit quicker, it's still pretty good.
This is nice but it REALLY needs an editor.